Even if you go tower of victory Dehli Crossbows and MAA are almost impossible to stop in combination with house of learning, +3 damage for MMA, that 0,5 range makes gives crossbows the first shot on top of firing 20% faster, as an icing dehli crossbows with paiks outrange chinese hand cannonneers.
@@TakLung-g6t after checking again both deli crossbow and chinese hand cannonneer have 5,5 tile range so they are even, but if you wanna be very specific about range dehli archers have +1,5 tiles with silk strings +0,5 tiles with paiks putting them at 7 range and still allows to fight chinese HC at better and cheaper odds, especially with the 20% attack speed from tower of victory. In short dehli ranged units will outperform chinese.
@@Bloodychaser did u forgot about english longbows? and delhi counters them hardest and chinese still shoots longer, Handcannoneer attack range +1.5 tiles. Delhi one is ONLY +0.5 and DOES NOT WORK ON HANDCANNONER at least learn to read lmao ur must be bronze and that shit only buff archers and xboxs, 0.5 RANGE, and required a LANDMARK
I like Zhu xi as an spectator, has a lot of variance in between games thanks to meditation gardens, can go straight into dynasty units without making both landmarks and has fast age ups. And their late game is awesome thanks to ZXL techs and temple of the sun
Mongol sheep issue: maybe add a building where you can garrison 8 villagers and if sheep are selected to go in they are auto slaughtered and food added to a stockpile. So like a semi-passive income as it still uses pop space for the vils
19:00 A buff for Mongols could be better gathering from animals. Get in the hunter society and add like a 10% or 15% better gathering on sheep, deer and boar in comparison to Abbasid or Dehli and their berry gathering. Would be an eco boost in early, mid and late game. Not having walls would mean it's still more-ish risky to go for hunts.
Brainstorming to fix OOTD: I feel like if they made the OOTD villagers regular villagers and gave them a regular eco that would balance out the eco a lot. Currently OOTD is too slow because of fewer vils then as they get to swabia (if they survive) OOTD suddenly has an insane eco nothign in the middle. I also think they need a feudal prelate or their aachen should heal that would make the civ more resilient without making them broken since their units kinda suck in feudal and can get demolished by feudal rush civs but then in imp they suddenly are unstoppable (same issue as the vils they need some moderation). Also I think the elite upgrade should give their units a slight damage and health boost but use more pop space so that their units are not broken in late game.
their economy is slightly better than with regular villagers. Your proposal would nerf them. Giving them healing in feudal goes against their philosophy of easy to use
@@VittamarFasuthAkbin no an no. Their eco is slightly better because their vils gather 28% more. I was recommending they get the same number of vils as regular civs but a slight bonus like 15% to match an HRE type buff but with a sight nerf since the HRE prelate has to be moved around yet the prelate gives a 40% buff. This smaller buff accounts for the micro needed to move the prelate around. Aachen stays the same. Easy to use is not the OOTD philosophy that's just a sideeffect of having fewer units ... nothing is meant to be easy to use it's just how things work out with OOTD if you are in gold league
To fix mongols i think you should make every unit spawn from a single military building , mongols have 7 unit total , mongols should be strong because they don't have anything special but can adapt quickly , khunters come out from the landmark , and that's it .
OOTD needs a flat buff to movement speed on all non-siege units. Guessing 10-15 %. Would fix the civ and also look better with the bigger unit models. Just allow the civ to get outmassed but give them tools to deal with it.
100% agree on Mongol. I still main them and love their early pressure playstyle. ALWAYS hated the tower rush cheese. But they certainly need some kind of eco benefits.
I'm still a noob, but it seems that, even in early, the enemy outfarm me, has more EVERYTHING and my units are just worse, without any bonus. For exemple, the frenchs, which i'm supposed to harass easily, have a extremly early knight landmark and train more knights than me with my x2. Wtf x) The only very good aspect of mongols are their trades, but without walls it's easily targetable. If you had the fact that the enemy has more than you : when can i train traders if i'm always behind in army ?? Bonus salt : i hate the fact that knights catch up to the khan in feudal
Mongols should have Imperial Age landmarks like "Golden Horde", "Ilkhanate", "Chagatai khanate", "Great khanate-Yuan" and representative units and buildings etc. maybe wall?? It would be nice to have landmarks that adapt to different playstyles depending on the progress of the game.
Based on the statistics OOTD gets better as you move up the ranks, it is better at conqueror IV than gold. Maybe OOTD is bad at pro level but for 99.9% of player base is S tier.
But the are strong bcs you need only 1 barrack to produce like x1.75 unit bcs double supply and stats unit Maybe add the old upgrade to horseman at imperial
I agree that doesn't make logical sense. It really should be +2 but given that OOTD has the highest overall win rate and is top 3 at every level it's kind of hard to justify making that change.
@BeastyqtSC2 What is your opinion on what should be done with English? Do you think the nerfs are perfectly fine? Or do we need that civ to always be S-tier?
i love mongols since the release of age 4 but it kinda seems meh, i mean you are legit THE cavalry civ, which is known for the horse combat and your horse units all feel weaker then other civs. Thats something which just hurts the immersion in addition to all the legit points you mentioned. I hope they will address this
Can you not still get a third row of farms around the chapel and the workers on those farms if they drop off at the chapel will get inspired. So effectively you can still have a third row
Personally, I don't understand making a tierlist for the top 0.1% only. That's my only take tho. I appreciate it, but, what's the purpose of a tier list meant for the 0.1% which doesn't speak for the whole community.
like most tier lists people make, it's just for fun, not meant to be taken super seriously It's just a format that allows him to talk about the game and we get to hear his opinions which a lot of people find entertaining and/or valuable Those who like to watch pro tournaments, having a bit more understanding of how the civs stack up against each other might make it a little more interesting even though he often doesn't go into detail as to the specific matchups (mostly because there are SO many)
@@JunglingFist I like the tier lists aswell, and watch tournaments. I do believe that there is ''some'' place to make a 'non-pro'' tier list. Even though, In his eyes probably every civ is great in Gold league
Mongol is just the best ONLY if you reach imperial and with stone upgrades and kurultai. But reach that point is hard bcs no eco boost or something if you cant trade w/10+
@Schnitzel2368 you dont do double production at imperial. Just in the first push on feudal or maybe in castle or at least i do that The most important stone buff is if you have 3 or more relics and cavalry. Or if you have 20 or more at market do the stone upgrade for eco boost When mongol ups with kagenate, kurultai and all the upgrades avaiable you cant stop them
Isn't balancing Civs for Top 10-20 players in the world like making consumer cars for the masses but optimising them for formula-1 racing drivers? There must be some more fine graining to it then just having a cutoff point.
I think all this "needs to be nerfed" complaning is luxury. The team behind aoe IV did an insanely good job with so many unique civs and playstyles and still being somewhat balanced. There is no broken civ. The winrates are showing that. Like beasty says, his tier lists are not for 98 % of the player base.
The problem with trying to balance to the average player is that they are not playing optimally. The only way to determine if something is too strong and needs a nerf is if the two players are playing the best way possible. Otherwise you could always make the argument that X doesn't need a nerf, you just need to be doing Y and Z better. When players are playing much closer to optimal play, it is a lot easier to tell when something needs buffed or nerfed. It's still isn't perfect but it's better than adjusting the game to match the average players.
@mrwookiee9116 No one is ever playing 100% optimally. That's not the only way to determine if something needs a nerf. You can factor in what the top 0.1% are doing and maybe give less consideration to the bottom 20%, but really the biggest indicator is just the overall winrate and they should balance the game based on that. Example: buffing OOTD would be an absolutely horrible decision.
You missed the disclaimer. This tierlist is for top top level play. Like not conq 3 top level. Like top 20player tierlist. For bronze to gold all civs are either broken or trash. Your civ sucks your opponents civ is the best
@@checkmate8849 I don't think any civ is either broken or trash at any level and the stats prove this because all civs are within very narrow window of win% from Bronze to Conq. Your success of lack thereof with any civ is an individual thing. I like OOTD, English, Abba, French and a couple of others but suck badly at Dehli, Chinese etc. I just find it humourous that everyone complains about OOTD but overall it's actually the best civ in the game, albeit by a very narrow margin.
@johnnypenso9574 i understand what you are saying and i agree. Playing many competitive games the ootd model is common. Fighting games also have characters that are extremly good at lower level but very weak at the master ranks. Ppl call them "knowledge check" characters. With OOTD its an inflated win rate. Aoe4 world has a very small smaple size of information. At bronze, gold, plat level most ppl barely know their own civ. Let alone ootd. Which requires a very specific counter play. For the life of me i could not beat HRE when i was learning the game. Now i beat most HRE players. OOTD games are so far in between for me in ladder that i dont get practice. But i win some lose some. Beasty says its trash because literally no one can beat him with OOTD. Thats his pov tierlist
how mongol stone upgrade was untouch for years. Which even rus bounty system have been changed I see no reason why they changed university tech but not stone techs. A easy fix will be: Tier 1 econ upgrade : only surival techinque change to affect sheeps too; professional scout makes vills do area damage to sheeps Tier 2 econ upgrade : all upgrade changed from 7.5% faster into drop off 7.5% more rss Tier 3 econ upgrade: all upgrade changed from 7.5% faster into drop off 7.5% as stone.
I'm diamond and I've never beaten an ootd player that spams MAA age2. I tried it myself and never lost a game. What the fuck is the counter to age2 ootd maa (non knight civs)
Just lost like 6 games in a row on English in ffa, never before. Farm and MAA spam useless now and cant maintain it, plus units seem to just melt. eco trash now plus main unit trash, one of them needs a slight buff, man at arms 50 Hp buff or something.
Listen top level gameplay I get it. Top 10 top 20, yes. But those people aready know what's good and what's not so who the fuck cares about a tierlist for 20 people that are better than any viewer will ever be?
Bob Shmoh here, and I want to say that this tier list is wrong and that my opponent's civ is clearly S tier
And it's lag if I'm using them and I lose
True
@@steveo4thehorde Joe Shmoe here and i agree with Bob
I didn't play AoE4 since like 10 month, but I make sure to check every tier list update. :D
What Mongols need is naturally higher torch damage for cavalry, without upgrades.
Even if you go tower of victory Dehli Crossbows and MAA are almost impossible to stop in combination with house of learning, +3 damage for MMA, that 0,5 range makes gives crossbows the first shot on top of firing 20% faster, as an icing dehli crossbows with paiks outrange chinese hand cannonneers.
Yea but if you go tower of victory gl tryna get the house of learning upgrades at a good timing without wasting a lot of gold
@@RealSohumBunless you stay in feudal and take sacred sites and fight which is what you should do if you go tower of victory
? chinese still out range wtf u talkling about
@@TakLung-g6t after checking again both deli crossbow and chinese hand cannonneer have 5,5 tile range so they are even, but if you wanna be very specific about range dehli archers have +1,5 tiles with silk strings +0,5 tiles with paiks putting them at 7 range and still allows to fight chinese HC at better and cheaper odds, especially with the 20% attack speed from tower of victory. In short dehli ranged units will outperform chinese.
@@Bloodychaser did u forgot about english longbows? and delhi counters them hardest
and chinese still shoots longer, Handcannoneer attack range +1.5 tiles. Delhi one is ONLY +0.5 and DOES NOT WORK ON HANDCANNONER
at least learn to read lmao ur must be bronze
and that shit only buff archers and xboxs, 0.5 RANGE, and required a LANDMARK
I like Zhu xi as an spectator, has a lot of variance in between games thanks to meditation gardens, can go straight into dynasty units without making both landmarks and has fast age ups. And their late game is awesome thanks to ZXL techs and temple of the sun
Mongol sheep issue: maybe add a building where you can garrison 8 villagers and if sheep are selected to go in they are auto slaughtered and food added to a stockpile. So like a semi-passive income as it still uses pop space for the vils
i like a safe food idea for mongals
Yup that's what i instantly thought
They can just make the sheeps just an animation while the food is gsthered at a constant rate
19:00 A buff for Mongols could be better gathering from animals. Get in the hunter society and add like a 10% or 15% better gathering on sheep, deer and boar in comparison to Abbasid or Dehli and their berry gathering. Would be an eco boost in early, mid and late game. Not having walls would mean it's still more-ish risky to go for hunts.
Or khan hunters have pro scouts
Brainstorming to fix OOTD: I feel like if they made the OOTD villagers regular villagers and gave them a regular eco that would balance out the eco a lot. Currently OOTD is too slow because of fewer vils then as they get to swabia (if they survive) OOTD suddenly has an insane eco nothign in the middle.
I also think they need a feudal prelate or their aachen should heal that would make the civ more resilient without making them broken since their units kinda suck in feudal and can get demolished by feudal rush civs but then in imp they suddenly are unstoppable (same issue as the vils they need some moderation). Also I think the elite upgrade should give their units a slight damage and health boost but use more pop space so that their units are not broken in late game.
their economy is slightly better than with regular villagers. Your proposal would nerf them. Giving them healing in feudal goes against their philosophy of easy to use
@@VittamarFasuthAkbin no an no. Their eco is slightly better because their vils gather 28% more. I was recommending they get the same number of vils as regular civs but a slight bonus like 15% to match an HRE type buff but with a sight nerf since the HRE prelate has to be moved around yet the prelate gives a 40% buff. This smaller buff accounts for the micro needed to move the prelate around. Aachen stays the same.
Easy to use is not the OOTD philosophy that's just a sideeffect of having fewer units ... nothing is meant to be easy to use it's just how things work out with OOTD if you are in gold league
To fix mongols i think you should make every unit spawn from a single military building , mongols have 7 unit total , mongols should be strong because they don't have anything special but can adapt quickly , khunters come out from the landmark , and that's it .
OOTD needs a flat buff to movement speed on all non-siege units. Guessing 10-15 %. Would fix the civ and also look better with the bigger unit models. Just allow the civ to get outmassed but give them tools to deal with it.
100% agree on Mongol. I still main them and love their early pressure playstyle. ALWAYS hated the tower rush cheese. But they certainly need some kind of eco benefits.
I'm still a noob, but it seems that, even in early, the enemy outfarm me, has more EVERYTHING and my units are just worse, without any bonus.
For exemple, the frenchs, which i'm supposed to harass easily, have a extremly early knight landmark and train more knights than me with my x2. Wtf x)
The only very good aspect of mongols are their trades, but without walls it's easily targetable. If you had the fact that the enemy has more than you : when can i train traders if i'm always behind in army ??
Bonus salt : i hate the fact that knights catch up to the khan in feudal
Mongols should have Imperial Age landmarks like "Golden Horde", "Ilkhanate", "Chagatai khanate", "Great khanate-Yuan" and representative units and buildings etc. maybe wall?? It would be nice to have landmarks that adapt to different playstyles depending on the progress of the game.
I love playing Mongol but the economy is really bad.
Same
Just wait, the winter will end and our ords will conquer the world.
Yeah agreed, been saying for ages they need to reduce stone cost for the improved eco upgrades
as a mongal main, yes! yes! yes! been waiting for an upgrade for ages. stone 'big
towers should be in castle and emplacements cheaper
loving it. having the yam back and fortress rather then tower. come on devs!!
We were too late... The earth exploded. I can CONFIRM from up here in the international space station.
Mongols should have a higher pop cap, no walls means more defense army and offense army
Towers
Based on the statistics OOTD gets better as you move up the ranks, it is better at conqueror IV than gold. Maybe OOTD is bad at pro level but for 99.9% of player base is S tier.
Imagine the age2 archer spam with otto if they got +15% wood from anatolia
The issue with OOTD is that the unit upgrades are only counted as +1, even though the units themselves should actually count as 2.
But the are strong bcs you need only 1 barrack to produce like x1.75 unit bcs double supply and stats unit
Maybe add the old upgrade to horseman at imperial
I agree that doesn't make logical sense. It really should be +2 but given that OOTD has the highest overall win rate and is top 3 at every level it's kind of hard to justify making that change.
@BeastyqtSC2 What is your opinion on what should be done with English? Do you think the nerfs are perfectly fine? Or do we need that civ to always be S-tier?
i just need to know how you attached a handle to that cereal bowl? I have always wanted to drink coffee out of a cereal bowl.
i love mongols since the release of age 4 but it kinda seems meh, i mean you are legit THE cavalry civ, which is known for the horse combat and your horse units all feel weaker then other civs. Thats something which just hurts the immersion in addition to all the legit points you mentioned. I hope they will address this
Can you not still get a third row of farms around the chapel and the workers on those farms if they drop off at the chapel will get inspired. So effectively you can still have a third row
question, there is any mod I can use to play 1vs1 controlling both civ?? like for training porpuses?? , Thanks for your videos
I wish you could’ve posted this sooner, i bought the dlc Wednesday 😭
You bought because you wanted it, not because your beloved UA-camr said so. Dlc is good, just try it out and IF YOU ain't gonna like it - return.
Deer stone needs 2 be a production bulding
love u brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OTD is at the bottom of the list, but something got better.
Personally, I don't understand making a tierlist for the top 0.1% only. That's my only take tho. I appreciate it, but, what's the purpose of a tier list meant for the 0.1% which doesn't speak for the whole community.
like most tier lists people make, it's just for fun, not meant to be taken super seriously
It's just a format that allows him to talk about the game and we get to hear his opinions which a lot of people find entertaining and/or valuable
Those who like to watch pro tournaments, having a bit more understanding of how the civs stack up against each other might make it a little more interesting even though he often doesn't go into detail as to the specific matchups (mostly because there are SO many)
@@JunglingFist I like the tier lists aswell, and watch tournaments. I do believe that there is ''some'' place to make a 'non-pro'' tier list.
Even though, In his eyes probably every civ is great in Gold league
Mongol is just the best ONLY if you reach imperial and with stone upgrades and kurultai. But reach that point is hard bcs no eco boost or something if you cant trade w/10+
@Schnitzel2368 you dont do double production at imperial. Just in the first push on feudal or maybe in castle or at least i do that
The most important stone buff is if you have 3 or more relics and cavalry. Or if you have 20 or more at market do the stone upgrade for eco boost
When mongol ups with kagenate, kurultai and all the upgrades avaiable you cant stop them
I just raid constantly with Mangudai and Keshik, Keep widdling down the villager count. Games usually don't get past castle....
i can beat u on any civs, bet u would say they are all OP then
Isn't balancing Civs for Top 10-20 players in the world like making consumer cars for the masses but optimising them for formula-1 racing drivers? There must be some more fine graining to it then just having a cutoff point.
good point
I think all this "needs to be nerfed" complaning is luxury. The team behind aoe IV did an insanely good job with so many unique civs and playstyles and still being somewhat balanced. There is no broken civ. The winrates are showing that. Like beasty says, his tier lists are not for 98 % of the player base.
The problem with trying to balance to the average player is that they are not playing optimally. The only way to determine if something is too strong and needs a nerf is if the two players are playing the best way possible. Otherwise you could always make the argument that X doesn't need a nerf, you just need to be doing Y and Z better.
When players are playing much closer to optimal play, it is a lot easier to tell when something needs buffed or nerfed. It's still isn't perfect but it's better than adjusting the game to match the average players.
@@mxallthewayMore like top 0.1% lol but yea
@mrwookiee9116 No one is ever playing 100% optimally. That's not the only way to determine if something needs a nerf. You can factor in what the top 0.1% are doing and maybe give less consideration to the bottom 20%, but really the biggest indicator is just the overall winrate and they should balance the game based on that.
Example: buffing OOTD would be an absolutely horrible decision.
So many nerfs in the nutts of english, still manages to be A+ heh
My question is that are you making this video for only top 20 people ?
Got it otd s tier 👍
How does he say English is unplayable but it’s in A+
Hi beasty
Is there a newbie tier list? Started playing yesterday
OOTD is the worst civ but somehow has the best overall win rates and is top 3 (last I checked) from Bronze to Conq. Make it make sense, please.
You missed the disclaimer. This tierlist is for top top level play. Like not conq 3 top level. Like top 20player tierlist.
For bronze to gold all civs are either broken or trash. Your civ sucks your opponents civ is the best
@@checkmate8849 I don't think any civ is either broken or trash at any level and the stats prove this because all civs are within very narrow window of win% from Bronze to Conq. Your success of lack thereof with any civ is an individual thing. I like OOTD, English, Abba, French and a couple of others but suck badly at Dehli, Chinese etc.
I just find it humourous that everyone complains about OOTD but overall it's actually the best civ in the game, albeit by a very narrow margin.
@johnnypenso9574 i understand what you are saying and i agree. Playing many competitive games the ootd model is common. Fighting games also have characters that are extremly good at lower level but very weak at the master ranks. Ppl call them "knowledge check" characters.
With OOTD its an inflated win rate. Aoe4 world has a very small smaple size of information. At bronze, gold, plat level most ppl barely know their own civ. Let alone ootd. Which requires a very specific counter play.
For the life of me i could not beat HRE when i was learning the game. Now i beat most HRE players. OOTD games are so far in between for me in ladder that i dont get practice. But i win some lose some.
Beasty says its trash because literally no one can beat him with OOTD. Thats his pov tierlist
I'm glad that I'm stuck in gold cuz my Civ sucks 😂
Yep and if you pick OOTD every single time you actually have an excuse Kappa
how mongol stone upgrade was untouch for years.
Which even rus bounty system have been changed
I see no reason why they changed university tech but not stone techs.
A easy fix will be:
Tier 1 econ upgrade : only surival techinque change to affect sheeps too; professional scout makes vills do area damage to sheeps
Tier 2 econ upgrade : all upgrade changed from 7.5% faster into drop off 7.5% more rss
Tier 3 econ upgrade: all upgrade changed from 7.5% faster into drop off 7.5% as stone.
I'm diamond and I've never beaten an ootd player that spams MAA age2. I tried it myself and never lost a game. What the fuck is the counter to age2 ootd maa (non knight civs)
Let’s go🎉
Beasty JUST CONFIRMED new Civ in this video! Spaniards are coming to aoe4 next year!
It would be great
Literally when lol
timestamp?
Fake news
Just lost like 6 games in a row on English in ffa, never before. Farm and MAA spam useless now and cant maintain it, plus units seem to just melt. eco trash now plus main unit trash, one of them needs a slight buff, man at arms 50 Hp buff or something.
nice
Listen top level gameplay I get it. Top 10 top 20, yes. But those people aready know what's good and what's not so who the fuck cares about a tierlist for 20 people that are better than any viewer will ever be?
You must be new around here, chat is who wants these tier lists. 😅
AGE OF EMPIRES IV
Ona Musha beat gulp byzantine cheese and delhi war elephant easy.
Even I reached Conqueror and I suck ass
alta was glaubst du wer du sein und pagst mongola auf d alta
isso
That said.... French still S tier in gold/plat league. I ALWAYS LOSE AGAINST FRENCH, NO MATTER WHAT 😵😵
When I see somebody plays OOTD in my team game lobby .. I leave, like there is no point playing the game
You're special mate.
Thought zhu xi sucked
AoE 4ever!!
abassid is so bad.
👏 👏 GAMERS
A bit confused here, you said that English is unplayable but still put it in A+ ? 🫤
How does he say English is unplayable but it’s in A+