I’m Brazilian of Japanese heritage and I kinda feel the say way about Tatcha and Sol de Janeiro. I feel like both are American brands that profit off being inspired by “exotic” (I hate that word) countries’ beauty routine. Sol de Janeiro is produced in the USA but they say the ingredients are indigenous to the Amazon Rainforest in Brazil. Their products only started to be sold in Brazil in 2021 and I find it so weird to buy products with ingredients exported from our country, to be produced in the US and imported back with a much much higher price tag.
Holy shit, we must be telepathicaly connected by our country! lol Brazilian here, too! I tweeted about Sol de Janeiro today, talking about the absurd price tags for the reality of the majority of our population! I legitimately thought it was a Brazilian brand at first. One of the founders is Brazilian, but if anything it makes it kinda worse that, if they claim they're that "passionate" about our country, the price tags are so insane for us...🤡
Yep. Brazilian here and I feel the same way. I was really annoyed by the backstory of the brand and the fact that they didn’t even sell at the time in Brazil was ridiculous.
I definitely wouldn’t want to buy something that advertised they were collecting ingredients from the Amazon Rainforest! We should be supporting leaving the rainforest alone!
i remember when tatcha came out, users on r/asianbeauty were posting about the marketing being kinda deceptive. personally the brand feels like non-japanese person idea of mysterious magical japanese skincare secrets transformed into way too expensive products
Now that it's run by white people, yes. But its founder is Taiwanese. If you know anything about the history of the region, you'd know she was not appropriating whatsoever. Japan is one of the biggest, most violent imperialist nations in the world, right up there with Britain and the US. There has been a TON of cultural exchange and assimilation between Taiwan and Japan.
Okay maybe you can help me then. My skin loves the dewy skin cream and feels bad when I use anything else. What ‘genuine Japanese skincare’ will do what it does?
OK, so Geisha haven't kept their beauty products secret, lol. They have been super popular in Japan and Asia as a whole for decades and decades now. Fermented stabilized rice bran (the rive enzyme powder wash that Tatcha sells) is all over the place, always has been. I use SRB's, which literally stands for Stabilized Rice Bran, as well as many other different brand's enzyme rice powder washes. SKII uses it too. But they use it in an essence. And many other brands have a galactomyces essence too. Which I also use. The galactomyces essence is the liquid rinse from the rice bran and the rice bran itself is the powder wash. Ginseng obviously has been used for centuries and isn't a Geisha "thing" even though they used it. I mean, I'm sure Vicki went to Japan and was totally inspired by the Geisha, but they didn't impart any super secret knowledge to her. LMAO, can you imagine?! Closely guarded secret for over 3000 years and here comes random American born Vicki and they just tell her everything? Yeah, no, it stopped being a secret looooooong ago!
Another instance of "it was popular thing in Asia until some western business person decided that it isn't" with the whole 300 y.o. beauty secrets from Geishas shtick they have going on. Like I get it she likes japanese skin care but I'm sure since Vicky traveled Asia and researched her stuff she would know better...
I live in Tokyo and the brands we can get for a fraction of the price and I do use some geisha products. Some things are under wraps but most are now out in the open as it is a dying breed.
Was that the case in the US in 2009, though? It certainly is today, but it was legitimately hard to get info on some of those things before the mid-‘10s or thereabout.
Off topic but hearing you say “chapter one” made me realize you have the perfect voice for audiobooks. I would definitely listen to you narrate anything 😂
when i went to japan for the first time my mom told me to bring her back some tatcha products and i didn’t know at the time that it was an american brand so i basically went on a wild goose chase tryna find this stuff (got her shiseido instead)
I love Shiseido. Pity they stopped making cosmetic shades that actually match Olive skin(and a lot of Asian complexions like mine-was a shade O20 gal for 30 years). Still their SPF is one of the few that don't irritate my skin and I can put all my cosmetics over without them breaking up.
James, you've achieved "I click on it without even seeing the title or thumbnail" status for me! Judging from the comments, you've achieved that status for a lot of others also
tbh i never got the vibe from tatcha that it was supposed to be like this deeply-rooted brand using historical japanese ingredients. i always thought it was another high end western brand
I knew the company was founded by an Asian woman however, I didn't know her background. I had just assumed she made Japanese inspired skincare because she had a Japanese background.
Dude fr!! I think Japan is great but between the atrocities they’ve committed (ironic coming from an American, I know it’s not just Japan yall) and their super unhealthy work life balance and pressure I think it’s crazy how almost romanticized it is in Western media. Especially since even with that romanticization Asian people (honestly just poc in general) are still treated like shit a majority of the time
@0l1v3r_13_ oh yeah and like when you look into the struggles and concerns of their minority populations it's not sunshine and roses. It's rough. And don't get me wrong. Shit ain't sweet nowhere. But when countries are romanticized and selling up the "best" of their culture you have to look at who's suffering so they can save face. The more I learned about Japan the angrier I got for It's citizens.
The power of anime 😂. But being honest, a lot of ppl are ignorant of Japan’s history ( Asian/African history in general) that’s why it doesn’t have the same reputation as Germany
I actually found the culture appropriation sterm from her being Taiwanese is quite interesting and it remindes me of Wasabi sushi which was established by British Korean but selling Japanese food with a Japanese brand name lol Also the question about her own culture, Taiwanese culture has such a complex historical background where it was even once governed by Japan for about 50 years. Also, "Ts" in her last name is actually pronounced more like something between "Ch-ai" and "Z-ai", instead of Te-sai 😅
Yes, exactly. It's not really "appropriation" if it's of a colonizer that literally forced their culture onto you. Also -- I used to live in Japan, and they put no weight on issues of cultural appropriation because in their own sphere of influence they're the big dogs. Spreading Japanese culture, even if imperfectly, is part of their plan for global soft power, much like Hollywood is to America. Like, no one "appropriates" American culture, and people generally laugh it off when American culture is mischaracterized by much less powerful groups abroad. Most Japanese people in Japan feel the same way about westerners not understanding kimonos, etc. It's only Japanese diaspora who tend to have an issue with cultural appropriation because they exist in marginalized contexts and are sensitized to such issues.
I’m wondering if it’s more accurate to call it a sort of reclamation of culture? American immigrant diaspora groups are their own subcultures in the grand scheme of things for the “melting pot” of America. Plus, the colonization of Asian countries by Japan (Britain of the East) specificall, even in a historical context would definitely put this somewhere in the middle, or neutral at the very least I would think. But not a negative place. 🤔
'Secrets of the geishas' is a total marketing gimmick. These ingredients and practices are widespread in Asia. Also, beauty standards for women in Japan, and more widely in Asia, are very restrictive. Great skincare, yes, but also a ton of pressure to look perfect all the time. Geisha embody a very specific, codified version of Japanese feminity and pursuing this life is very difficult, which is why almost no one does anymore, so the whole 'I was healed spiritually in Kyoto by a geisha' is kinda hilarious. I liked Kyoto too, it's a very nice city. But geishas are paid entertainers. It's their job to make conversation. These women weren't sharing revolutionary skin scare secrets with a special friend, they were chatting with a client, one who was obviously wealthy enough to afford them, it's their actual job.
literally! private equity has led to medical establishments having their mortality rate going up by like 10%! that's CRAZY. it also leads to them of course, shutting down, which also somehow makes them lots of money but it destroys the community & causes more harm as people have even less options & access to medical care! :(
As a Taiwanese person, Taiwan has a big cultural influence from Japan due to the past history of Japanese colonization. But Japan has also very much capitalized on its cultural influences from China and specifically Taiwan too without giving any sort of credit. Tatcha IS Japanese skincare bc they're literally formulated by Japanese chemists and the brand gives credit for all of it so I don't understand the issue lol
yeah, like my grandparents speak japanese because of japanese colonialism. i spoke japanese as a child and thought it was mandarin. that might just be a me thing, but our grandparents probably speak or spoke some japanese
Yes to this! I lived in Taiwan, and the deep (thanks colonization) connections between the two make this feel different than cut and dry appropriation. Taking apart the social, historical, and political dynamics of a Taiwanese-American making a Japanese-inspired brand could be a thesis.
Something people are missing is the cultural connection between Taiwan and Japan because Taiwan was one of the places colonized by Japan for a while. Taiwan is a bit of a hodgepodge island that is influenced by cultures from mainland China, the local Indigenous cultures, and Japanese culture. The two places are interlinked in a weird way that’s hard to explain. The inventor of instant noodles has ties to both places, and it’s not straight forward whether Taiwan or Japan should have the credit for the invention. For the film Spirited Away, Studio Ghibli heavily based their designs on JiouFen, a small town in Taiwan. It’s now mostly a tourist place, but is still beautiful and you can see the visual and design elements that were translated into the film. Then there’s the cultural connection between Chinese culture and Japanese culture that’s a touchy subject. A lot of the traditional Japanese culture that are so romanticized (the architecture, the fashion, the tea, tea ceremonies, calligraphy, language, etc etc) were actually Chinese in origin. This is because Japan existed for most of its history as a tributary state to China. All the architecture that’s so beloved in Kyoto were intentionally copied from Hangzhou, back when Hangzhou was known as ‘the most beautiful city’. None of this is to say it doesn’t matter how Japanese culture gets represented or that Japanese people shouldn’t be the main beneficiary of culture, but just to point out that it’s complicated.
I'm Japanese. I do feel like there is way too much of a glorification of Japanese culture, to the point where Japanese products are seen as being high end just by being Japanese (while a lot of Japanese products ARE of good quality, not all of them are...there's plenty of crap too). There's a lot of things these days that are imported into Japan from Taiwan and other parts of Asia and end up becoming quite popular -- instead of relying on western tropes about Japan to sell products, I wish people from other Asian countries would uplift their own cultural products as they should be quite proud of them.
Re: "why not her own culture?" - the answer is colonialism. Many people in the west don't know or fully grasp what it means that Taiwan was once a Japanese colony. Their most successful colony, in fact; the "show model" that they paraded around for Europe to see. Parts of Japanese culture are now ingrained in Taiwanese culture, but even beyond that there still exists this almost worship of Japanese culture among some Taiwanese. Not in the sense that anime is cool and Japan is exotic (that's the western perspective), but more like leftover colonial propaganda that Japan is what Taiwan should aspire to be. They are clean and orderly and perfect, while other Asian countries and cultures are taught to see themselves as brutish and dirty. These feelings are often left unexamined. But is it cultural appropriation then? I don't think so. Not any more than banh mi is culturally appropriating French baguettes, or Indians playing cricket are culturally appropriating the British. Japan is not the underdog here. They were the ones who forced their culture onto the groups they dominated. And they are now being placed on a pedestal by other Asians due to that same history of colonialism.
Same. Chinese have been invaded us Vietnam for over 1000 years, French invaded us for 100 years. So it’s Chinese is heavy influenced us, and so many French things we’re influenced, we use a lot of French borrowed words, phở also inspired from French dish, and many dishes we have influenced by French times.
The og of Japanese beauty are Shiseido and Kao. Even Kose and Kanebo are technically under Kao. They have multiple brands with various price ranges under their wings. I have been saying Tatcha is not a Japanese brand for ages. Kao, Shiseido and Pola-Orbis are the queens of R&i . Of course if you are brainwashed into anti fragrance, mineral oil, parabens and alcohols you will not like some of their products. For me, it's all about the science, formulation and R&I! My current ride or die for my oily skin is Kanebo Skin Harmonizer.
Japanese products are formulated for the Japanese market. I live in a very dry climate, and those ingredients simply don't work well for me. However, for others that live in humid areas, they will probably work just fine. The same goes for the hyaluronic acid. It's terribly drying, especially in winter.
Like several others in the comments, I can’t consider what the og ceo did as cultural appropriation. Mostly because not only does Japan have heavy influence from Chinese culture in the past, Japan still heavily influences Taiwan due to their 50 year occupation of the country. Taiwan themselves had a geisha industry in the late 1800s to early 1900s during the Japanese occupation. This can only be considered “cultural appropriation” if one looked through a western lens and ignored the history Taiwan and Japan have with each other
kimonos are japanese trad wear, they have a very specific set of rules and requirements as to what classifies as a kimono, everything from the wrapping to the fabrics and patterns. calling something that isn't actual japanese trad wear a kimono is the definition of cultural appropriation. the more casual version of kimono so to speak that don't have strict rules in their presentation are called yukata. you can wear a yukata for more casual occasions or traditional ones as well. these two get mixed up so frequently but they are COMPLETELY different. not caring about the difference between kimono and yukata is ignorant and lazy as hell, coming from a brand who's supposedly inspired by japanese culture. like be so for real rn.
I totally agree. As a Japanese person, I don’t mind if people get mixed up because i understand that it’s quite confusing for a non-Japanese person. but if you’re a big brand INSPIRED by Japanese culture, you don’t have an excuse to not know these things
there is an excellent UA-cam channel all about traditional Japanese dress, the differences and the way it is cut and sewn. The creator is a German girl married to a Japanese and living in Japan who has been taught by traditional craftspeople and is well worth watching for anyone genuinely interested in Japanese clothing.
I'm not sure if I would go as far as saying that a Taiwanese person appropriates Japanese culture. Japan colonized and ruled Taiwan for decades. There are a lot of Japanese influences there. Maybe we can take the historical context into consideration in this case. (and I definitely understand her jabs at the old white male replacement that had no clue what to do with the brand lol)
I feel like a lot of Westerners have no clue about the effects Japan had/has on surrounding Asian countries. I wasn't really aware until I met a Taiwanese girl and later a Filipino family. Definitely eye opening.
@@LullabyeLaura yeah it's shocking how little people in the West know about the atricocities of Japan back in the day. I'm married to a Korean guy, he has told me some horrific things. It annnoys him that people don't really know. I learned a bit in school about Japan being allies with Nazi German, but the war crimes of Japan were not delved into.
@@wafflefries8350 In America, public schools definitely gloss over Asia during WWII. I only know about horrific events, such as the Rape of Nanking, because of my immigrant family. A lot of Gen X/Baby Boomers who are Chinese, Korean, etc. deeply resent Japan for having never apologized or made amends after the World War. The Japanese government took the opposite approach of Germany, and decided to not teach future generations what happened. I love anime and Japanese streetwear fashion, but it is a great disservice to bury the past. A lot of otakus and weebs are ridiculous in over defending Japan, a country they know nothing about and would not fit into.
I’m absolutely not ignoring that Tatcha has made missteps regarding cultural appropriation. I also think they could call more attention to the fact that they’re inspired by Japan but not Japanese. However I think the biggest issue is us as consumers and also influencers. So many people assumed they were a Japanese company when even reading a description available on Sephora’s website would have shown that they were not a Japanese company. Any influencer accepting PR, partnering, or promoting Tatcha and then saying they were a Japanese company or even a K beauty brand is doing their audience a disservice by not doing basic research about what they’re promoting.
I've never heard any influencer mention anything about Asian beauty in regards with this brand. You might want to re- evaluate to whom you are paying attention.
I could listen to the Welsh brothers all day. I learn so much and they are so wise. Love to listen to James. So no nonsense, down to earth. Thanks to James
Jumping in really quick as an anthropologist! A quick thing to add is that part appropriation is the power dynamic between the cultures in which one is taking from another ie culture A is in a place of privilege and the power dynamic is shifted in their favor than culture B, and often when this is occurring culture B can't or has a harder time taking part in their own culture that culture A is using (that isn't always the case but it's a common addition). The political history of one country also changes how actions between cultures are seen within that country, an example of this since the topic is appropriation of Japanese culture is the wearing of kimono, people in Japan have a different view of non Japanese people wearing them vs Japanese Americans who have a history of oppression of their traditions in the US. An alternative example is the power dynamic between Koreans using things from Japanese culture BUT Japan was a colonial power in Korea in WW2 so the power dynamic for appropriation claims has shifted. Appropriation is thrown around A LOT in the US but usually it's a very American-centric lens without considerations for how other things have played out in others countries histories. This is why appropriation can be tricky for people to claim correctly (not saying it is or isn't here, this word salad is just for purely educational purposes) because usually history of a situation isn't looked at holistically.
Tbf, in Asia Japan is NOT marginalized and they've historically been one of, if not THE main colonizers of the region throughout history: Korea, China, the Phillipines, Taiwan, and even areas within Japan where the Yamato people colonized and oppressed indigenous groups like the Ainu in the north and the various people of the Ryukyuan islands and still do to this day. I disagree with the criticisms of the founder appropriating Japanese culture when Taiwan was historically colonized BY Japan, but I can understand it towards the new white American CEO who has no emotional connection to Japan unlike the founder (who also got permission from a Japanese woman willing to share that aspect of geisha/maiko culture) but Japan and its culture is not marginalized at all. If anything the racism regarding Japan in the modern day is more about romanticizing Japanese culture. In Western terms, the debate would kind of be like an Jamaican-British woman starting a brand inspired by her experiences in France and being accused of appropriating French culture. It depends on whether or not you think marginalization is THE factor in what defines cultural appropriation.
yeah exactly, I'm of mainland chinese decent, and I always eyeroll when people accuse other east Asians (Koreans, Chinese, Taiwanese ect) of appropriating japanese culture. Like?? can you even steal from a culture that colonized you?
Right like, if we accused Natives in the Americas of cultural appropriation for using “western” skincare. Like that’s just… not how that works. We colonized the Americas how would that even work??
i agree with everything you said but just want to add that in some countries like brazil (where im from) japanese immigrants are still a very marginalised community due to the history of the immigration (before the war) as exploitation in agricultural work and persecution of japanese brazilians during WWII, so there is still actual real and harmful racism happening
This has always been my problem with Tatcha. I can buy actual Japanese skincare that’s FAR less expensive. Tatcha’s very pretty, very ✨aesthetic✨, and great quality, but I just canNOT justify spending so much on fairly simple products😭
ngl i tried many k- and j-skincare products throughout the years but tatcha is just IT for my skin. do u rly think i want to be spending that money, no LOL but i keep going back because my skin has expensive taste ig. unless you have any recs for their dewy skin cream or rice polish at least?
As someone who once lived in Japan for several years and is married to a Japanese person, I feel like accusations of cultural appropriation center the western perspective and ignore the preferences of people living in the culture itself. I never once met a Japanese person who wasn't thrilled to share their culture with gaijin (outsiders). And when they see elements of Japanese culture being used by outsiders, the response I almost always see from Japanese people is, "Cool!" My Japanese hosts INSISTED on buying me a yukata and showing me how to wear it the first summer I was there. But I always hesistate to wear it outside Japan because of western-centric perspectives that say "oh you're not Japanese, you shouldn't wear traditional Japanese clothes" when I've literally never seen a Japanese person say that. I feel like the policing of "cultural appropriation" goes too far sometimes, to the point where it's really just segregation with extra steps. People are shouted down for learning and appreciating other cultures by gatekeepers who literally know nothing about the culture themselves. Of course pointing out PR mistakes like the funereal kimono is important and brands should pay attention to that. But people really go too far with the "cultural appropriation" accusations.
For every Japanese person you’ve met that wants to share their culture there’s probs another Japanese person who wants to keep it within their people. All your anecdotal experiences show is that you’ve met Japanese people who don’t mind sharing, but that doesn’t negate when people call out cultural appropriation in other experiences. It’s also weird you would assume they’re “gatekeepers who know nothing” about their actual culture when they voice their concerns. Do they need to show off an ancestry.com test and list off some sort of minority credential to have an opinion about how their culture is shared? There’s also something to be said for when a dominant culture spends decades making minorities feel like they have to stamp out the visible parts of their heritage to fit in, and then go around and wear the parts they feel are cute or trendy and get praise for that. A lot of cultural appropriation stems from this phenomenon, because people are not trying to “learn” they’re just trying to look good. It’s a fallacy that you need to be able to 100% participate in every aspect of a topic to learn about it, and demanding to do so just speaks to entitlement within the person/group seeking it. Tatcha the brand is a great example of cultural appropriation and why access to elements of culture doesn’t promote learning or true education if the audience doesn’t want it. The brand takes the elements of Japanese culture it thinks are cool, distorts them, and makes its buyers think it’s the real deal while they remain ignorant of true Japanese skincare brands. This nonsense has been going on forever amongst brands/people the only thing that has changed is people are not willing to put with it, are calling it out more, and can’t be ignored when they do like they were in the past. If this feels new to you it’s just because you weren’t paying attention when people were talking about it before
I just ignore the haters and wear my Middle Eastern jewelry, South Asian jewelry, and vintage clothes. I sometimes wear michiyuki robes over my clothes to work. I get second hand embarrassment from former white neoliberal college classmates who insist that 'minority communities' can't speak for themselves. I've gotten into more than one argument online/offline with them, and quizzed them to see just what they do know about Chinese and Japanese culture. It was embarrassing for them, seeing as they can't tell the difference between a hanfu and a kimono, how the obi belt is wider and more ornate for younger girls, etc. (They also can't speak anything but English, le gasp! Do they know Japanese kanji was 'appropriated' from Chinese hanzi writing) You are absolutely correct that Americans and other Western countries are ignorant in this nonsense. Cancel culture was supposed to be about bringing actual harm to public attention (assault, harrassment, etc) not about publicly shaming people for fashion choices. I'm fed up with super left wing people playing fashion police, its not their place and they should focus on their own problems.
I don't buy from Tatcha anymore, initially because I found other brands that were less expensive and worked just as well. Subsequently, I started hearing things like this about the brand so that kind of solidified it for me. Thanks for the education and the skin recommendations!!
I think some basic research into Taiwan's history and culture would explain why a Taiwanese person incorporating Japanese culture into her product would not be cultural appropriation on her part.......... accusations against her would be rubbish and smacks of western ignorance. The company selling kimonos wrapped the wrong way is a whole other ignorance problem though
Okay. I might be about to get a bunch of rocks thrown at me, but calling this cultural appropriation is...kind of reductive and fails to take into account the cultural overlap that occurs throughout parts of Asia + the history of colonization and military aggression of Japan vs its neighboring countries and cultures. I'm not even saying there isn't some definite, deceptive, disrespectful "exotic" marketing fuckery going on here - that heinous "kimono" - especially during the years that Vicky Tsai was forced to step down as CEO. However - the original framework that the concept of cultural appropriation is meant to operate within usually requires some degree of ACTUAL HARM, DISENFRANCHISEMENT AND/OR RACISM occurring that negatively affects the group of people being appropriated from. It's NOT meant to be all cases of one group of people borrowing/using things from another group and I appreciate that James touches on that. That's an overpopularized, but massively misunderstood interpretation of what cultural appropriation is. If that's all that was required for something to be cultural appropriation, then the people that try to argue that, say, black or Native American people being Christian or wearing blue jeans is cultural appropriation would be right, and they sure as hell aren't. Please consider this. What IS deeply disgusting to me that they forced Vicky Tsai out of her CEO position over her own brand. It definitely had everything to do with her being an Asian woman.
They struck a deal with the US. The US would cover up their war crimes if they went peacefully along with American post-war occupation. The old guard in Japan are annoyed by calls for apologies because they see it as part of the deal they made, that America would make all that go away and convince the world that nothing happened.
I love that you explained and highlighted the importance of understanding the differences between cultural appreciation versus cultural appropriation. 🖤🖤🖤 I can absolutely see that the kimono campaign fell under appropriation and then some. This was an awesome video essay, James! Thank you for educating us about Tatcha. I didn't know much about the brand and its origin and operation. 🖤
Kimono are specific to the Japanese culture. What they were selling was a robe, not a kimono and should have been named as such. Over the centuries fashion has been inspired by eastern culture. Doesn’t surprise me that skincare is also. I enjoy the water cream, but have also been looking for more affordable alternatives.
Just a sidenote: tsai is not pronounced „tuh-sai“ but „ts-ai“ … just one syllable! Taiwanese names are often still written in wade-giles vs. the now common pinyin, if i recall correctly, so it can be a bit confusing! Love ya james😌!
I think it probably would have been better if Viki just had originally marketed the brand as using ingredients from Japan. When she leaned into whole Geisha ritual thing, it did become a form of appropriation. It gave the impression that the formula for the products came directly from the Geisha, that they actually invented Tatcha. Instead she just used ingredients with Japanese origins and incorporated them into a western formula. But I will give her credit for acknowledging where she learned of the ingredients.
I remember being so jealous when I saw make up artists using their Tatcha moisturisers and such as a teen because we didn't have the brand in South Africa. Really awesome to learn the background behind it!
I LOVE the dewy skin cream and by far saw the biggest change in wrinkles and hydration in my skin with it, but then i developed an alergy to something in it and had to stop using it 😅 I hate that I can't use it anymore
20:22 it's important to consider the history between Japan and Taiwan before making a claim of cultural appropriation. I would also point out that appropriation is also a re-assigning the source (appropriating the cultural act/item/etc under a new name/without the cultural relevance). I don't know cultural appropriation is what's happening with this brand specifically.
After this deep dive i wouldn't say they do cultural appropriation because of many things but first of all japanese culture is not a marginalized culture in the context of asian countries (they're actually the colonizers), its actually one of the most romanticized and accepted cultures around the world, the number one place everyone wants to visit and loves. Second, the money from tatcha has been used for education of South East Asian girls who are actually the marginalized ones in the context of asian countries, and last thing is tatcha is made in japan (or at least the products i own are), which means it's creating jobs in Japan and kinda legitimizes their price point because they have to be exported from there. I truly don't think they are engaging in cultural appropriation, but are actually doing cultural appreciation! Bonus point is that japanese people love it when their culture is appreciated and shared so im sure no one is actually angry about tatcha ( except some people who aren't even japanese complaining about it)
Tatcha is the one brand I'll justify spending money on. The products just feel beautiful and luxe on the skin, it's for those days you just need a pick me up. Helps that they work!
Yeah if I could afford it, I'd buy the dewy cream and mist regularly. I have super dry skin with eczema and lots of sensitivities, and their dewy cream just makes my skin so hydrated and plump and healthy looking. I wish I could afford it😂🤷♀️ ive never heard of any dupes or anything.
@25archivesss Tatcha’s core audience are people who are not willing to do the research to find the affordable quality Asian skincare and who also thinks higher price = better. They give me Asian inspired la mer vibes 😂
Same! I hadn't meant to buy something so expensive but when I started to use it my skin improved so much that I'll either have to keep buying it or hope someone can recommend something similar 😄
Japan and Taiwan actually has a long history that goes back to 1895 where Taiwan was colonized by Japan. Even though they were colonized, Taiwan and Japan actually has a pretty good relationship (during WWII, Taiwan was not treated like other East and Southeast countries). Taiwan's culture is actually very similar. toJapanese culture in many ways. Of course, not saying they are the sam and of course, not saying a 3rd generation American Taiwanese is the same as a Taiwanese from Taiwan. Sharing this to somewhat trying to explain why the founder chose Japan instead of Taiwan.
I love the product for how it feels on my skin and I met the creator at the Sephora convention. I actually loved the book (we got for free) but I’m really happy for this information
i think it’s a bit more complicated than you delved into. Japan colonized Taiwan for 50 years (1895 to 1945). Japan has the “dominant” culture, so it’s not like Vicky Tsai herself inherently appropriated Japanese culture, because Japan itself forced its culture and traditions onto Taiwanese people. however, the white leadership and white investors are absolutely engaging in cultural appropriation for profiting off of culture which they have no connection to. and it could absolutely be argued that the brand appropriates geisha culture. also, of course, they are using orientalism to their advantage in order to make more money. relying on the fetishization of a culture that isn’t yours is indeed appropriation and very wrong.
Don’t tell me. Do you know that real latini were people of italic tribe that found Rome and it is outrageous that ppl in America south of the USA are taking their name (language has loose connections bcs Latin had different word order, declinations, didn’t have any articles or had conjunction or times like their languages) and I am so disgusted with this outrageous appropriation of the most important European culture actually.
@@pinagrrrr2280wait i know this is unrelated to skin care however you have me really interested. bit i don’t quite understand what you mean, do you think you could explain or reply with key phrases to google cause i know you’re not supposed comment links
@@pinagrrrr2280 This is not equivalent at all because the designation of Latin America and Latino comes from being colonized by Spain and other Romance language speaking countries. It’s called Latin America because their European colonizers forced them to speak Romance languages also known as Latin languages because they descended from Latin. As you referenced, this is a subgroup of Italic branch of languages. This is the accepted linguistic classification of these languages. This is a false equivalence as Europe was the dominant culture that forced themselves upon the indigenous South Americans and the people they enslaved. Latin America wouldn’t be Latin America without European imperalism and colonization, it’s not a designation that South American and people descended from South Americans chose. European colonizers invaded and attempted to destroy the indigenous South American cultures preventing people from identifying with their original languages and cultures. Europe is responsible for people identifying and being identified as Latin American.
@@mr.bingusthecat They’re making a false equivalence. The Latin in Latin America come from being colonized by Europe. Latin Languages is another name for Romance languages. It is not appropriation because the naming of the Latin language group was originally created by European colonizers. It cannot be appropriated because it was forced upon South Americans without their consent. They would’ve never identified themselves as Latin or Latino/a if they were not invaded by Euopeans that identified themselves as Latin. The identification of South Americans as Latin was also done in an attempt by the indigenous south americans to fight for equal rights under colonialist occupation.
@@savannap7823Except that doesn’t apply to everyone. Some people wash their face with just water, wear blue tin Nivea cream, and never have issues. I personally have combination dry skin and my skin has never been more dry and tired looking as when I was using Cerave. I didn’t realise I had naturally glowy skin until I stopped using it. I personally don’t use Tatcha, but I like Sensai and that’s not cheap either. Just use what works for you.
It’s one thing to adopt Japanese skincare ingredients and technology, but quite another to market a culture’s traditions if they’re not your own. Interesting discussion, thanks James. I only began exploring Tatcha’s product line during Covid - because the price point 😳. I think I tried their first product in a Cult Beauty advent calendar 🤔. I have to admit, I 💜 their Dewy Skin moisturizer… and the Overnight Indigo Repair Serum ⭐️😍 my sensitive skin has never been happier.
Accusing any east asian of appropriating japanese culture, is like accusing the First Nation native americans of appropriating american culture. Colonizers don't get the "cultural appropriation" victim card, sorry.
Just because Taiwan was colonized doesn’t erase the fact that tatcha the brand has engaged in cultural appropriation. Especially when the owner makes it a point to have the “geishas taught me everything” marketing as a storyline and then makes glaring gaffes like the kimono debacle. She could’ve founded the brand on her Taiwanese heritage, or have even said these are Japanese inspired products but our own twist. Instead she decided to place the brand in heavily japanese coded territory which means at that point you are making an active choice to align your work with the “colonizers” so you can’t get mad when they call you out. It’s also interesting to note tatcha’s primary audience is another set of “colonizers” which makes the CA accusations even more poignant because do you think outside groups care about the nuance about who colonized who and for how long? Actual Japanese people are not buying this product en masse. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not a huge brand amongst other East Asian countries as well. Can the culture tatcha is drawing from not point out the smoke and mirrors is using to sell a vision of Japan to others that’s not actually real?
I worked for a wealthy Japanese couple in their US-based small business. They had mentioned hosting Vicki at an event once. The wife noted that she "isn't Japanese," but aside from that, they didn't seem that very bothered. Then again, they were extremely non-confrontational. I was usually the one initiating hard conversations. Even if they were being polite, I do think it's interesting that she would bring it up. It's clearly something people are aware of and associate with the brand.
@JamesWelsh It's one of those brands where I would keep the container forever. Plus, Purple is my favourite colour, so that definitely works for me, haha. It's definitely expensive, but then again, I've seen brands be expensive that literally use cheap plastic basic packaging that just doesn't fit the demographic, so what can I say really. Im a skincare enthusiast, so I know my ingredients, and I know some brands just dont get it right, haha, but tatcha seems very good quality, so cudos to them. X
Let me tell you about Tatcha. I purchased a book on their website, THEIR book, about homemade Japanese skincare remedies, for over $20, with shipping, etc. I waited over a month to get this book. Then I saw the same exact book at 5 below, a discount dollar store here in the US, for $2, on clearance, weeks after getting my book!
Surprisingly this brand doesn’t have as many “scary” controversies as I am used to hearing at this point. And fact that it’s woman established and woman lead is so nice to hear, makes me feel less bad about spending money on it 😭🤣
I am so happy that you point out the fact that 'clean' doesn't always mean that it is the best for sensitive skin types. I scoff when I see clean labels on products, always eager to tell us they are 'clean brands' and emphasize their usage of natural ingredients and proudly listing whatever they exclude in their formulation. Like you pointed out, it is those very natural ingredients that cause allergic reactions for certain people. When it comes down to it, from a scientific perspective, what companies tout as being natural ingredients are chemicals that were sourced "naturally". I know what my skin can't take so when I shop for my skincare and makeup products, there is a list that I watch out for and they aren't the 'synthetic chemicals' that people have undeserved fear of ;)
I always appreciate the effort you put into making these videos. They are always well researched, well organized, and well told stories. It’s a gift that you can make non-fiction events feel this interesting to listen to.
Thanks for the video James, very insightful, I actually had no idea it was meant to be Japanese-inspired. On that note - it is not too farfetched to believe that the founder of Tatcha considers herself to have a connection with Japanese culture. Taiwan was a colony of Japan's for 50 years, between 1895 and 1945, and their culture is very much present in Taiwan, whose culture I'd describe as a mix of Chinese, Japanese and their own Taiwanese one. Contrary to many former coloniser-colony relationships, most Taiwanese think affectionately of Japan and admire their innovation and approaches. I live in Taiwan by the way, so this is from my own observations and research into the history and culture, so take it with a grain of salt as I'm sure there is a lot to uncover on the topic.
India was under British colonial rule for 200 years but we would be weirded out if an Indian appropriated traditional British rituals / traditions in a product like Tsai is doing. And then they had Chinese and then white man…and still no Japanese person in a management position.
When you said the 3 ingredients looked good together I imagined those ingredients as nice friends and as soon as I had that thought I quickly arose from my nap to tell you this Please don’t think I’m weird I’m somewhat but more than somewhat high sorry
I can’t say I love Tatcha. I LOVE my water cream (it’s my fave moisturiser), Matcha Cleanser and Deep Cleanser tho. Obsessed with those. But I’m not a one brand girly and I have a stable routine so I don’t branch out very often, if it all. Tatcha is expensive but they last. Or maybe I make it last haha
I found it so odd that whilst in Japan last month my daughter was unable to find Tatcha products anywhere - from Japan with love, just don’t go to Japan to buy our products as we don’t sell them in Japan.. ??
Why all the hate for Tatcha? I get that they are not a Japanese brand per se, but if you do a deep dive into the beauty community there are tons and tons of brands that get their inspiration from other cultures. For example, Skyn Iceland is founded by a New Yorker, who has built a brand around Iceland skincare. Sol de Janiero which heavily base their brand off of Brazilian beauty culture but was founded by a Korean American who only lived in Brazil for a short time period. Furthermore, in regards to cultural appropriation of the founder of Tatcha, (who’s Taiwanese ) if you look back at history, Taiwan was under Japanese colonial rule for a long time so they are heavily influence by the Japanese.
People do rag on sol de Janeiro for not actually being brazilian all the time. No one knows what skyn Iceland is on a large scale, so how can people talk about what they don’t know exist. You would also have to look at if the founder of skyn Iceland is also building a brand off of being told “Icelandic secrets and tips towards better skin” and building a mythology around their brands like tatcha does that doesn’t exist. Also just because brands market off of cultures they have no real clues about doesn’t mean we should be encouraging more to go down this road lmao. Especially if they pull a tatcha and get bought out by a culture that has even less of an idea about the culture the previous owners were using loosely
Doesn’t bother me at all. Started using them around 2017 or so introduced by my cantonese friend working in San Francisco 🎉 we could only afford it through another friends sephora discount- the Japanese theme concentration is not bothersome at all, and in my experience working in SF I had maaaany taiwanese customers who held Japanese products in high regard, so I’m not surprised. I think the founder Tsai had the right to do whatever she wanted creatively, probably more of a shame she left honestly, because with her leaves the creative insight. Making her step down is quite disgusting… while I still use some products I love, I dunno how to feel about it now or buying it again when kbeauty is an easy option now
Thank you for doing these videos! It’s so nourishing to make purchasing decisions on product reviews AND an understanding of the company. You are a truly gifted storyteller/educator. 💜
This is great but just a little bummed at the mispronunciation of "Tsai" given that she was the focus of the video and it could've been easily googled ahead of time to confirm
All I know is I have tried lots of Korean cleansers and Western cleansers, and Tatcha cleanser is the only one that feels so luxurious and truly cleansing. If I could buy a cheaper alternative, I would. Most Japanese style brands that make it to the US are insanely expensive. Shiseido, SK2, etc, are all super expensive.
All the more reason it makes it weird that the owner leaned heavily into making the brand Japanese coded rather than Taiwanese or Japanese inspired with a twist. I’m Nigerian, British colonizers did a lot to the country, and you won’t see me create a brand that’s heavily British coded and tries to use some British mythology to unsuspecting consumers who have no idea of the history
I got a tatcha sample from Sephora one time and wasn’t moved. I didn’t realize it was a popular luxury brand until your video. Honestly, Laneige is the only skin care brand that gets me excited. Everything I use from them just works for me. I would love a deep dive on them 👀
I keep seeing this brand when I’m online and I do like the packaging and that simplicity I associate with Japanese culture. I appreciate your deep dive into the brand!!! Thank you, James!
I remember when Tatcha was this insanely beautiful niche brand that NO ONE knew about… it was nice to see them become super popular. I personally love the brand. My top picks are the cleansing oil, rice wash, essence, rice polish, indigo overnight cream. It was a bit disappointing when Vicky was asked to step down and now I feel like I never see her talking about the brand… products that I love are still amazing to me. I haven’t noticed a change but once they start switching from made in Japan to made in USA like shiseido did I’ll be out ✌🏼
i could be wrong, but normally if an asian last name has "ts" at the beginning of it, the t is silent. so her last name is probably pronounced as "sigh" not "tuh-sigh"
So interesting, really like this series. I remember being so excited when Tatcha came to Space NK but then I was just...meh. I mean plus I couldn't really afford it! I'm not convinced tho. So many influencers rave about the cream in the purple pot but it doesn't feel as hydrating as they claim...
I’m Brazilian of Japanese heritage and I kinda feel the say way about Tatcha and Sol de Janeiro. I feel like both are American brands that profit off being inspired by “exotic” (I hate that word) countries’ beauty routine. Sol de Janeiro is produced in the USA but they say the ingredients are indigenous to the Amazon Rainforest in Brazil. Their products only started to be sold in Brazil in 2021 and I find it so weird to buy products with ingredients exported from our country, to be produced in the US and imported back with a much much higher price tag.
Holy shit, we must be telepathicaly connected by our country! lol Brazilian here, too! I tweeted about Sol de Janeiro today, talking about the absurd price tags for the reality of the majority of our population! I legitimately thought it was a Brazilian brand at first. One of the founders is Brazilian, but if anything it makes it kinda worse that, if they claim they're that "passionate" about our country, the price tags are so insane for us...🤡
I haven't heard about Sol de Janeiro before 2021. I am surprised to learn they existed beforehand.
Yep. Brazilian here and I feel the same way. I was really annoyed by the backstory of the brand and the fact that they didn’t even sell at the time in Brazil was ridiculous.
Wait if you hear about the origin of Moroccan Oil 💀
I definitely wouldn’t want to buy something that advertised they were collecting ingredients from the Amazon Rainforest! We should be supporting leaving the rainforest alone!
i remember when tatcha came out, users on r/asianbeauty were posting about the marketing being kinda deceptive. personally the brand feels like non-japanese person idea of mysterious magical japanese skincare secrets transformed into way too expensive products
Spot on!
Exactly
She struggled with her Chinese identity, proceed to create a Geisha-inspired skincare? That's dumb. Not all asians are the same.
person who just discovered the idea of Japonisme and orientalism FOUR hundred years too late.
Now that it's run by white people, yes. But its founder is Taiwanese. If you know anything about the history of the region, you'd know she was not appropriating whatsoever. Japan is one of the biggest, most violent imperialist nations in the world, right up there with Britain and the US. There has been a TON of cultural exchange and assimilation between Taiwan and Japan.
Never understood the hype for Tatcha. Why buy Japan inspired skincare, when you can get genuine Japanese skincare with fraction of their price? 🤨
I think bc of was specifically secrets of the Geisha vs generic Japanese cosmetics.
when there is a story and status attached to a brand, that is what people buy
Okay maybe you can help me then. My skin loves the dewy skin cream and feels bad when I use anything else. What ‘genuine Japanese skincare’ will do what it does?
@@greghazmat191 I'd recommend SKII!
@@greghazmat191 not Japanese, but the haruharu Black Rice Hyaluronic Cream has a very similar ingredient list for a fraction of the price lol
OK, so Geisha haven't kept their beauty products secret, lol. They have been super popular in Japan and Asia as a whole for decades and decades now. Fermented stabilized rice bran (the rive enzyme powder wash that Tatcha sells) is all over the place, always has been. I use SRB's, which literally stands for Stabilized Rice Bran, as well as many other different brand's enzyme rice powder washes. SKII uses it too. But they use it in an essence. And many other brands have a galactomyces essence too. Which I also use. The galactomyces essence is the liquid rinse from the rice bran and the rice bran itself is the powder wash. Ginseng obviously has been used for centuries and isn't a Geisha "thing" even though they used it. I mean, I'm sure Vicki went to Japan and was totally inspired by the Geisha, but they didn't impart any super secret knowledge to her. LMAO, can you imagine?! Closely guarded secret for over 3000 years and here comes random American born Vicki and they just tell her everything? Yeah, no, it stopped being a secret looooooong ago!
😂
Another instance of "it was popular thing in Asia until some western business person decided that it isn't" with the whole 300 y.o. beauty secrets from Geishas shtick they have going on. Like I get it she likes japanese skin care but I'm sure since Vicky traveled Asia and researched her stuff she would know better...
I live in Tokyo and the brands we can get for a fraction of the price and I do use some geisha products. Some things are under wraps but most are now out in the open as it is a dying breed.
Boosting. Because this comment needs to be read.
Was that the case in the US in 2009, though? It certainly is today, but it was legitimately hard to get info on some of those things before the mid-‘10s or thereabout.
Off topic but hearing you say “chapter one” made me realize you have the perfect voice for audiobooks. I would definitely listen to you narrate anything 😂
Saaame, and I don't even like audiobooks 😅
Ditto! His voice is calming 😊
That is so true❤
We keep telling him and he ignore us! 😢 He needs to know! ❤
omg yes ! james voice is amazing
when i went to japan for the first time my mom told me to bring her back some tatcha products and i didn’t know at the time that it was an american brand so i basically went on a wild goose chase tryna find this stuff (got her shiseido instead)
Shiseido , even being a huge brand, is still underrated.
Shiseido are really good, pity I can't afford the now though.
I love Shiseido. Pity they stopped making cosmetic shades that actually match Olive skin(and a lot of Asian complexions like mine-was a shade O20 gal for 30 years).
Still their SPF is one of the few that don't irritate my skin and I can put all my cosmetics over without them breaking up.
Better choice hands down ❤️
@@musicandbooklover-p2o the thing with shiseido is that they are not cruelty free.
James, you've achieved "I click on it without even seeing the title or thumbnail" status for me! Judging from the comments, you've achieved that status for a lot of others also
Well I hope you enjoy the video then!! 😅💜
OMG YES! I have set an alarm for the days they release videos- because either missed his new VT Reedle Shot box after only 18 hrs! 😂
He truly has. I always click on his videos without knowing what it's about.
Any Welsh content is the only thing I have notifs for lmao!! Love them so much
@@JamesWelsh Absolutely did 💜
tbh i never got the vibe from tatcha that it was supposed to be like this deeply-rooted brand using historical japanese ingredients. i always thought it was another high end western brand
Same. Prior to this video, I thought it was a white person brand trying to incorporate some Asian ingredients
@@missalicesmiles Ditto. It's not like it hasn't been done.
I knew the company was founded by an Asian woman however, I didn't know her background. I had just assumed she made Japanese inspired skincare because she had a Japanese background.
Same here
I know my perspective has alot to do with growing up with Filipino friends but damn Japan has had such great PR after World War 2.
Dude fr!! I think Japan is great but between the atrocities they’ve committed (ironic coming from an American, I know it’s not just Japan yall) and their super unhealthy work life balance and pressure I think it’s crazy how almost romanticized it is in Western media. Especially since even with that romanticization Asian people (honestly just poc in general) are still treated like shit a majority of the time
@0l1v3r_13_ oh yeah and like when you look into the struggles and concerns of their minority populations it's not sunshine and roses. It's rough. And don't get me wrong. Shit ain't sweet nowhere. But when countries are romanticized and selling up the "best" of their culture you have to look at who's suffering so they can save face. The more I learned about Japan the angrier I got for It's citizens.
@@TheBunnyBeatdownMany admire Japan precisely because of the way they treat their minorities
@@kikiTHEalienAs a minority living in Japan, I'm dying to learn precisely what it is about their treatment of us that makes them admirable.
The power of anime 😂. But being honest, a lot of ppl are ignorant of Japan’s history ( Asian/African history in general) that’s why it doesn’t have the same reputation as Germany
I actually found the culture appropriation sterm from her being Taiwanese is quite interesting and it remindes me of Wasabi sushi which was established by British Korean but selling Japanese food with a Japanese brand name lol Also the question about her own culture, Taiwanese culture has such a complex historical background where it was even once governed by Japan for about 50 years.
Also, "Ts" in her last name is actually pronounced more like something between "Ch-ai" and "Z-ai", instead of Te-sai 😅
This comment should be pinned. Historical context is important. Not sure "appropriation" from past colonisers carries the same weight lol
Yes, exactly. It's not really "appropriation" if it's of a colonizer that literally forced their culture onto you. Also -- I used to live in Japan, and they put no weight on issues of cultural appropriation because in their own sphere of influence they're the big dogs. Spreading Japanese culture, even if imperfectly, is part of their plan for global soft power, much like Hollywood is to America. Like, no one "appropriates" American culture, and people generally laugh it off when American culture is mischaracterized by much less powerful groups abroad. Most Japanese people in Japan feel the same way about westerners not understanding kimonos, etc. It's only Japanese diaspora who tend to have an issue with cultural appropriation because they exist in marginalized contexts and are sensitized to such issues.
Japan occupied Taiwan lol, this is like wht ppl complaining abt PoC wearing jeans.
I’m wondering if it’s more accurate to call it a sort of reclamation of culture? American immigrant diaspora groups are their own subcultures in the grand scheme of things for the “melting pot” of America. Plus, the colonization of Asian countries by Japan (Britain of the East) specificall, even in a historical context would definitely put this somewhere in the middle, or neutral at the very least I would think. But not a negative place. 🤔
It's not culture appropriation for an Asian woman to celebrate another Asian culture. Puhlease.
'Secrets of the geishas' is a total marketing gimmick. These ingredients and practices are widespread in Asia. Also, beauty standards for women in Japan, and more widely in Asia, are very restrictive. Great skincare, yes, but also a ton of pressure to look perfect all the time. Geisha embody a very specific, codified version of Japanese feminity and pursuing this life is very difficult, which is why almost no one does anymore, so the whole 'I was healed spiritually in Kyoto by a geisha' is kinda hilarious. I liked Kyoto too, it's a very nice city. But geishas are paid entertainers. It's their job to make conversation. These women weren't sharing revolutionary skin scare secrets with a special friend, they were chatting with a client, one who was obviously wealthy enough to afford them, it's their actual job.
Great video!! But oh my god, private equity and hedge funds are truly the death of so many aspiring businesses, ugh.
literally! private equity has led to medical establishments having their mortality rate going up by like 10%! that's CRAZY. it also leads to them of course, shutting down, which also somehow makes them lots of money but it destroys the community & causes more harm as people have even less options & access to medical care! :(
As a Taiwanese person, Taiwan has a big cultural influence from Japan due to the past history of Japanese colonization. But Japan has also very much capitalized on its cultural influences from China and specifically Taiwan too without giving any sort of credit. Tatcha IS Japanese skincare bc they're literally formulated by Japanese chemists and the brand gives credit for all of it so I don't understand the issue lol
Also Taiwanese, and I agree! I feel like a lot of people in the west do not know about this lol…
Exactly! There was literally a thriving Geisha industry in Taiwan in the 1920s
yeah, like my grandparents speak japanese because of japanese colonialism. i spoke japanese as a child and thought it was mandarin. that might just be a me thing, but our grandparents probably speak or spoke some japanese
Thank you for mentioning this, was looking for this in the comments
Yes to this! I lived in Taiwan, and the deep (thanks colonization) connections between the two make this feel different than cut and dry appropriation. Taking apart the social, historical, and political dynamics of a Taiwanese-American making a Japanese-inspired brand could be a thesis.
Something people are missing is the cultural connection between Taiwan and Japan because Taiwan was one of the places colonized by Japan for a while. Taiwan is a bit of a hodgepodge island that is influenced by cultures from mainland China, the local Indigenous cultures, and Japanese culture. The two places are interlinked in a weird way that’s hard to explain. The inventor of instant noodles has ties to both places, and it’s not straight forward whether Taiwan or Japan should have the credit for the invention. For the film Spirited Away, Studio Ghibli heavily based their designs on JiouFen, a small town in Taiwan. It’s now mostly a tourist place, but is still beautiful and you can see the visual and design elements that were translated into the film.
Then there’s the cultural connection between Chinese culture and Japanese culture that’s a touchy subject. A lot of the traditional Japanese culture that are so romanticized (the architecture, the fashion, the tea, tea ceremonies, calligraphy, language, etc etc) were actually Chinese in origin. This is because Japan existed for most of its history as a tributary state to China. All the architecture that’s so beloved in Kyoto were intentionally copied from Hangzhou, back when Hangzhou was known as ‘the most beautiful city’.
None of this is to say it doesn’t matter how Japanese culture gets represented or that Japanese people shouldn’t be the main beneficiary of culture, but just to point out that it’s complicated.
I'm Japanese. I do feel like there is way too much of a glorification of Japanese culture, to the point where Japanese products are seen as being high end just by being Japanese (while a lot of Japanese products ARE of good quality, not all of them are...there's plenty of crap too). There's a lot of things these days that are imported into Japan from Taiwan and other parts of Asia and end up becoming quite popular -- instead of relying on western tropes about Japan to sell products, I wish people from other Asian countries would uplift their own cultural products as they should be quite proud of them.
Re: "why not her own culture?" - the answer is colonialism. Many people in the west don't know or fully grasp what it means that Taiwan was once a Japanese colony. Their most successful colony, in fact; the "show model" that they paraded around for Europe to see. Parts of Japanese culture are now ingrained in Taiwanese culture, but even beyond that there still exists this almost worship of Japanese culture among some Taiwanese. Not in the sense that anime is cool and Japan is exotic (that's the western perspective), but more like leftover colonial propaganda that Japan is what Taiwan should aspire to be. They are clean and orderly and perfect, while other Asian countries and cultures are taught to see themselves as brutish and dirty. These feelings are often left unexamined.
But is it cultural appropriation then? I don't think so. Not any more than banh mi is culturally appropriating French baguettes, or Indians playing cricket are culturally appropriating the British. Japan is not the underdog here. They were the ones who forced their culture onto the groups they dominated. And they are now being placed on a pedestal by other Asians due to that same history of colonialism.
Same. Chinese have been invaded us Vietnam for over 1000 years, French invaded us for 100 years. So it’s Chinese is heavy influenced us, and so many French things we’re influenced, we use a lot of French borrowed words, phở also inspired from French dish, and many dishes we have influenced by French times.
The og of Japanese beauty are Shiseido and Kao. Even Kose and Kanebo are technically under Kao. They have multiple brands with various price ranges under their wings. I have been saying Tatcha is not a Japanese brand for ages. Kao, Shiseido and Pola-Orbis are the queens of R&i . Of course if you are brainwashed into anti fragrance, mineral oil, parabens and alcohols you will not like some of their products. For me, it's all about the science, formulation and R&I! My current ride or die for my oily skin is Kanebo Skin Harmonizer.
Japanese products are formulated for the Japanese market. I live in a very dry climate, and those ingredients simply don't work well for me. However, for others that live in humid areas, they will probably work just fine. The same goes for the hyaluronic acid. It's terribly drying, especially in winter.
Like several others in the comments, I can’t consider what the og ceo did as cultural appropriation. Mostly because not only does Japan have heavy influence from Chinese culture in the past, Japan still heavily influences Taiwan due to their 50 year occupation of the country. Taiwan themselves had a geisha industry in the late 1800s to early 1900s during the Japanese occupation. This can only be considered “cultural appropriation” if one looked through a western lens and ignored the history Taiwan and Japan have with each other
Stress really does mess up your skin big time!
All the way through law school, I looked like someone had gone at my face with sandpaper 😫🤣
100% I flare up so bad when I’m stressed!
@@JamesWelsh it is a real pain and very expensive 🤣
kimonos are japanese trad wear, they have a very specific set of rules and requirements as to what classifies as a kimono, everything from the wrapping to the fabrics and patterns. calling something that isn't actual japanese trad wear a kimono is the definition of cultural appropriation. the more casual version of kimono so to speak that don't have strict rules in their presentation are called yukata. you can wear a yukata for more casual occasions or traditional ones as well. these two get mixed up so frequently but they are COMPLETELY different. not caring about the difference between kimono and yukata is ignorant and lazy as hell, coming from a brand who's supposedly inspired by japanese culture. like be so for real rn.
I totally agree. As a Japanese person, I don’t mind if people get mixed up because i understand that it’s quite confusing for a non-Japanese person. but if you’re a big brand INSPIRED by Japanese culture, you don’t have an excuse to not know these things
I thought kimono and yukata was the same? With the only difference being that kimono are worn by women/girls and yukata for men/boys?
there is an excellent UA-cam channel all about traditional Japanese dress, the differences and the way it is cut and sewn. The creator is a German girl married to a Japanese and living in Japan who has been taught by traditional craftspeople and is well worth watching for anyone genuinely interested in Japanese clothing.
@@Ria-vj3chthey are not the same. I advise you google the diffrence so you can learn more about it
@@musicandbooklover-p2owhat's the name?
I'm not sure if I would go as far as saying that a Taiwanese person appropriates Japanese culture. Japan colonized and ruled Taiwan for decades. There are a lot of Japanese influences there. Maybe we can take the historical context into consideration in this case. (and I definitely understand her jabs at the old white male replacement that had no clue what to do with the brand lol)
I feel like a lot of Westerners have no clue about the effects Japan had/has on surrounding Asian countries. I wasn't really aware until I met a Taiwanese girl and later a Filipino family. Definitely eye opening.
I thought the same, I was like… I think we do need to understand the Imperialism of Japan and the history there…
@@LullabyeLaura yeah it's shocking how little people in the West know about the atricocities of Japan back in the day. I'm married to a Korean guy, he has told me some horrific things. It annnoys him that people don't really know. I learned a bit in school about Japan being allies with Nazi German, but the war crimes of Japan were not delved into.
@@wafflefries8350 Japan invested into excellent PR tbh, especially in US.
@@wafflefries8350 In America, public schools definitely gloss over Asia during WWII. I only know about horrific events, such as the Rape of Nanking, because of my immigrant family. A lot of Gen X/Baby Boomers who are Chinese, Korean, etc. deeply resent Japan for having never apologized or made amends after the World War. The Japanese government took the opposite approach of Germany, and decided to not teach future generations what happened. I love anime and Japanese streetwear fashion, but it is a great disservice to bury the past. A lot of otakus and weebs are ridiculous in over defending Japan, a country they know nothing about and would not fit into.
I’m absolutely not ignoring that Tatcha has made missteps regarding cultural appropriation. I also think they could call more attention to the fact that they’re inspired by Japan but not Japanese. However I think the biggest issue is us as consumers and also influencers. So many people assumed they were a Japanese company when even reading a description available on Sephora’s website would have shown that they were not a Japanese company. Any influencer accepting PR, partnering, or promoting Tatcha and then saying they were a Japanese company or even a K beauty brand is doing their audience a disservice by not doing basic research about what they’re promoting.
I've never heard any influencer mention anything about Asian beauty in regards with this brand. You might want to re- evaluate to whom you are paying attention.
They are great products with wonderful formulations for people with money to waste.
I could listen to the Welsh brothers all day. I learn so much and they are so wise. Love to listen to James. So no nonsense, down to earth. Thanks to James
I have to admit, I absolutely love the way you say 'clean' so sarcastically
I actually really love tatcha
It is definitely pricey but it has helped my skin so much especially during my pregnancies
I really love it too. It has helped me a great deal. Hearing the creator get ousted is really sad.
me too. I have used it for 9 years. All of their products make noticeable differences in my skin. Will forever support Tatcha
Same!
Jumping in really quick as an anthropologist! A quick thing to add is that part appropriation is the power dynamic between the cultures in which one is taking from another ie culture A is in a place of privilege and the power dynamic is shifted in their favor than culture B, and often when this is occurring culture B can't or has a harder time taking part in their own culture that culture A is using (that isn't always the case but it's a common addition). The political history of one country also changes how actions between cultures are seen within that country, an example of this since the topic is appropriation of Japanese culture is the wearing of kimono, people in Japan have a different view of non Japanese people wearing them vs Japanese Americans who have a history of oppression of their traditions in the US. An alternative example is the power dynamic between Koreans using things from Japanese culture BUT Japan was a colonial power in Korea in WW2 so the power dynamic for appropriation claims has shifted. Appropriation is thrown around A LOT in the US but usually it's a very American-centric lens without considerations for how other things have played out in others countries histories. This is why appropriation can be tricky for people to claim correctly (not saying it is or isn't here, this word salad is just for purely educational purposes) because usually history of a situation isn't looked at holistically.
Tbf, in Asia Japan is NOT marginalized and they've historically been one of, if not THE main colonizers of the region throughout history: Korea, China, the Phillipines, Taiwan, and even areas within Japan where the Yamato people colonized and oppressed indigenous groups like the Ainu in the north and the various people of the Ryukyuan islands and still do to this day.
I disagree with the criticisms of the founder appropriating Japanese culture when Taiwan was historically colonized BY Japan, but I can understand it towards the new white American CEO who has no emotional connection to Japan unlike the founder (who also got permission from a Japanese woman willing to share that aspect of geisha/maiko culture) but Japan and its culture is not marginalized at all. If anything the racism regarding Japan in the modern day is more about romanticizing Japanese culture.
In Western terms, the debate would kind of be like an Jamaican-British woman starting a brand inspired by her experiences in France and being accused of appropriating French culture. It depends on whether or not you think marginalization is THE factor in what defines cultural appropriation.
yeah exactly, I'm of mainland chinese decent, and I always eyeroll when people accuse other east Asians (Koreans, Chinese, Taiwanese ect) of appropriating japanese culture. Like?? can you even steal from a culture that colonized you?
Right like, if we accused Natives in the Americas of cultural appropriation for using “western” skincare. Like that’s just… not how that works. We colonized the Americas how would that even work??
@@ming-meiizhao1902 fair point. My partner is Korean and has the same opinion
Interesting, thanks for the comment
i agree with everything you said but just want to add that in some countries like brazil (where im from) japanese immigrants are still a very marginalised community due to the history of the immigration (before the war) as exploitation in agricultural work and persecution of japanese brazilians during WWII, so there is still actual real and harmful racism happening
I have so much respect for your audio. It’s so clear. Whew!!
Tatcha products are decent but there are many other quality options in K and J beauty for a fraction of the price.
This has always been my problem with Tatcha. I can buy actual Japanese skincare that’s FAR less expensive. Tatcha’s very pretty, very ✨aesthetic✨, and great quality, but I just canNOT justify spending so much on fairly simple products😭
ngl i tried many k- and j-skincare products throughout the years but tatcha is just IT for my skin. do u rly think i want to be spending that money, no LOL but i keep going back because my skin has expensive taste ig. unless you have any recs for their dewy skin cream or rice polish at least?
As someone who once lived in Japan for several years and is married to a Japanese person, I feel like accusations of cultural appropriation center the western perspective and ignore the preferences of people living in the culture itself. I never once met a Japanese person who wasn't thrilled to share their culture with gaijin (outsiders). And when they see elements of Japanese culture being used by outsiders, the response I almost always see from Japanese people is, "Cool!" My Japanese hosts INSISTED on buying me a yukata and showing me how to wear it the first summer I was there. But I always hesistate to wear it outside Japan because of western-centric perspectives that say "oh you're not Japanese, you shouldn't wear traditional Japanese clothes" when I've literally never seen a Japanese person say that. I feel like the policing of "cultural appropriation" goes too far sometimes, to the point where it's really just segregation with extra steps. People are shouted down for learning and appreciating other cultures by gatekeepers who literally know nothing about the culture themselves.
Of course pointing out PR mistakes like the funereal kimono is important and brands should pay attention to that. But people really go too far with the "cultural appropriation" accusations.
For every Japanese person you’ve met that wants to share their culture there’s probs another Japanese person who wants to keep it within their people. All your anecdotal experiences show is that you’ve met Japanese people who don’t mind sharing, but that doesn’t negate when people call out cultural appropriation in other experiences. It’s also weird you would assume they’re “gatekeepers who know nothing” about their actual culture when they voice their concerns. Do they need to show off an ancestry.com test and list off some sort of minority credential to have an opinion about how their culture is shared?
There’s also something to be said for when a dominant culture spends decades making minorities feel like they have to stamp out the visible parts of their heritage to fit in, and then go around and wear the parts they feel are cute or trendy and get praise for that. A lot of cultural appropriation stems from this phenomenon, because people are not trying to “learn” they’re just trying to look good. It’s a fallacy that you need to be able to 100% participate in every aspect of a topic to learn about it, and demanding to do so just speaks to entitlement within the person/group seeking it.
Tatcha the brand is a great example of cultural appropriation and why access to elements of culture doesn’t promote learning or true education if the audience doesn’t want it. The brand takes the elements of Japanese culture it thinks are cool, distorts them, and makes its buyers think it’s the real deal while they remain ignorant of true Japanese skincare brands. This nonsense has been going on forever amongst brands/people the only thing that has changed is people are not willing to put with it, are calling it out more, and can’t be ignored when they do like they were in the past. If this feels new to you it’s just because you weren’t paying attention when people were talking about it before
I just ignore the haters and wear my Middle Eastern jewelry, South Asian jewelry, and vintage clothes. I sometimes wear michiyuki robes over my clothes to work. I get second hand embarrassment from former white neoliberal college classmates who insist that 'minority communities' can't speak for themselves. I've gotten into more than one argument online/offline with them, and quizzed them to see just what they do know about Chinese and Japanese culture. It was embarrassing for them, seeing as they can't tell the difference between a hanfu and a kimono, how the obi belt is wider and more ornate for younger girls, etc. (They also can't speak anything but English, le gasp! Do they know Japanese kanji was 'appropriated' from Chinese hanzi writing)
You are absolutely correct that Americans and other Western countries are ignorant in this nonsense. Cancel culture was supposed to be about bringing actual harm to public attention (assault, harrassment, etc) not about publicly shaming people for fashion choices. I'm fed up with super left wing people playing fashion police, its not their place and they should focus on their own problems.
So true, in VN we really love foreigners wearing our National dress, and admire when westerners wear it.
What a shame that she was threatened to step down as CEO of her own company. Why is this so common?
Jealousy.
It also happened to Steve Jobs.
@@keepmoving1119 it’s different with Steve jobs. They had good business reason to kick him out. She got kicked out because of racism and sexism.
Because money
I don't buy from Tatcha anymore, initially because I found other brands that were less expensive and worked just as well. Subsequently, I started hearing things like this about the brand so that kind of solidified it for me. Thanks for the education and the skin recommendations!!
as a person who drinks a smoothie (almost) every morning, I'm very honored to live a luxury lifestyle. 😂
I think some basic research into Taiwan's history and culture would explain why a Taiwanese person incorporating Japanese culture into her product would not be cultural appropriation on her part.......... accusations against her would be rubbish and smacks of western ignorance. The company selling kimonos wrapped the wrong way is a whole other ignorance problem though
Okay. I might be about to get a bunch of rocks thrown at me, but calling this cultural appropriation is...kind of reductive and fails to take into account the cultural overlap that occurs throughout parts of Asia + the history of colonization and military aggression of Japan vs its neighboring countries and cultures. I'm not even saying there isn't some definite, deceptive, disrespectful "exotic" marketing fuckery going on here - that heinous "kimono" - especially during the years that Vicky Tsai was forced to step down as CEO. However - the original framework that the concept of cultural appropriation is meant to operate within usually requires some degree of ACTUAL HARM, DISENFRANCHISEMENT AND/OR RACISM occurring that negatively affects the group of people being appropriated from. It's NOT meant to be all cases of one group of people borrowing/using things from another group and I appreciate that James touches on that. That's an overpopularized, but massively misunderstood interpretation of what cultural appropriation is. If that's all that was required for something to be cultural appropriation, then the people that try to argue that, say, black or Native American people being Christian or wearing blue jeans is cultural appropriation would be right, and they sure as hell aren't. Please consider this.
What IS deeply disgusting to me that they forced Vicky Tsai out of her CEO position over her own brand. It definitely had everything to do with her being an Asian woman.
Japan's ability to rebrand (without an apology) in the last 100 years is crazy
They struck a deal with the US. The US would cover up their war crimes if they went peacefully along with American post-war occupation. The old guard in Japan are annoyed by calls for apologies because they see it as part of the deal they made, that America would make all that go away and convince the world that nothing happened.
uWu 😻
I love that you explained and highlighted the importance of understanding the differences between cultural appreciation versus cultural appropriation. 🖤🖤🖤
I can absolutely see that the kimono campaign fell under appropriation and then some.
This was an awesome video essay, James! Thank you for educating us about Tatcha. I didn't know much about the brand and its origin and operation. 🖤
Kimono are specific to the Japanese culture. What they were selling was a robe, not a kimono and should have been named as such. Over the centuries fashion has been inspired by eastern culture. Doesn’t surprise me that skincare is also. I enjoy the water cream, but have also been looking for more affordable alternatives.
Just a sidenote: tsai is not pronounced „tuh-sai“ but „ts-ai“ … just one syllable! Taiwanese names are often still written in wade-giles vs. the now common pinyin, if i recall correctly, so it can be a bit confusing!
Love ya james😌!
I think it probably would have been better if Viki just had originally marketed the brand as using ingredients from Japan. When she leaned into whole Geisha ritual thing, it did become a form of appropriation. It gave the impression that the formula for the products came directly from the Geisha, that they actually invented Tatcha. Instead she just used ingredients with Japanese origins and incorporated them into a western formula. But I will give her credit for acknowledging where she learned of the ingredients.
I remember being so jealous when I saw make up artists using their Tatcha moisturisers and such as a teen because we didn't have the brand in South Africa. Really awesome to learn the background behind it!
I'm a lover of tatcha. Especially the dewy skin cream.
I LOVE the dewy skin cream and by far saw the biggest change in wrinkles and hydration in my skin with it, but then i developed an alergy to something in it and had to stop using it 😅 I hate that I can't use it anymore
Very interesting- thanks for the deep dive. Please keep up this series 🙂💜🖤
I was just watching a video from Robert when I got this notification lol so I finished watching it and immediately came here
That's very dangerous - you can lose a whole day like that. Don't ask me how I know.
...
20:22 it's important to consider the history between Japan and Taiwan before making a claim of cultural appropriation. I would also point out that appropriation is also a re-assigning the source (appropriating the cultural act/item/etc under a new name/without the cultural relevance). I don't know cultural appropriation is what's happening with this brand specifically.
exactly. i think this video was in poor taste
After this deep dive i wouldn't say they do cultural appropriation because of many things but first of all japanese culture is not a marginalized culture in the context of asian countries (they're actually the colonizers), its actually one of the most romanticized and accepted cultures around the world, the number one place everyone wants to visit and loves. Second, the money from tatcha has been used for education of South East Asian girls who are actually the marginalized ones in the context of asian countries, and last thing is tatcha is made in japan (or at least the products i own are), which means it's creating jobs in Japan and kinda legitimizes their price point because they have to be exported from there. I truly don't think they are engaging in cultural appropriation, but are actually doing cultural appreciation! Bonus point is that japanese people love it when their culture is appreciated and shared so im sure no one is actually angry about tatcha ( except some people who aren't even japanese complaining about it)
Hi Vicki!
Tatcha is the one brand I'll justify spending money on. The products just feel beautiful and luxe on the skin, it's for those days you just need a pick me up. Helps that they work!
100%
Yeah if I could afford it, I'd buy the dewy cream and mist regularly. I have super dry skin with eczema and lots of sensitivities, and their dewy cream just makes my skin so hydrated and plump and healthy looking. I wish I could afford it😂🤷♀️ ive never heard of any dupes or anything.
Until you realize you can get real Asian skincare for the fraction of the price that works as well
Agreed. The smell and everything. It for sure feels luxury and I really enjoy it.
@25archivesss Tatcha’s core audience are people who are not willing to do the research to find the affordable quality Asian skincare and who also thinks higher price = better. They give me Asian inspired la mer vibes 😂
I love the blue cream. It helped my rosacea! There are several products I don’t like. I love at least a handful.
Yeah I don’t think I’ve actually landed on any products of theirs I love other than their lip products!
It made mine worse, but that's skin care and rosacea for you! I'm so glad you found something that works it can be so painful.
Same! I hadn't meant to buy something so expensive but when I started to use it my skin improved so much that I'll either have to keep buying it or hope someone can recommend something similar 😄
Dewy or Indigo? 🙂
@@magpiesneedle2575 indigo.
Why are you doing this to me 😭😭😭 Still watching the twins video! ALGORITHM and i'll be back in 30 minutes 💜
Japan and Taiwan actually has a long history that goes back to 1895 where Taiwan was colonized by Japan. Even though they were colonized, Taiwan and Japan actually has a pretty good relationship (during WWII, Taiwan was not treated like other East and Southeast countries). Taiwan's culture is actually very similar. toJapanese culture in many ways. Of course, not saying they are the sam and of course, not saying a 3rd generation American Taiwanese is the same as a Taiwanese from Taiwan. Sharing this to somewhat trying to explain why the founder chose Japan instead of Taiwan.
I was watching the video with your brother Robert when i got this notification, i Love having so many vídeos from you and Robert❤ 😂
I love the product for how it feels on my skin and I met the creator at the Sephora convention. I actually loved the book (we got for free) but I’m really happy for this information
i think it’s a bit more complicated than you delved into.
Japan colonized Taiwan for 50 years (1895 to 1945).
Japan has the “dominant” culture, so it’s not like Vicky Tsai herself inherently appropriated Japanese culture, because Japan itself forced its culture and traditions onto Taiwanese people.
however, the white leadership and white investors are absolutely engaging in cultural appropriation for profiting off of culture which they have no connection to.
and it could absolutely be argued that the brand appropriates geisha culture.
also, of course, they are using orientalism to their advantage in order to make more money.
relying on the fetishization of a culture that isn’t yours is indeed appropriation and very wrong.
Don’t tell me. Do you know that real latini were people of italic tribe that found Rome and it is outrageous that ppl in America south of the USA are taking their name (language has loose connections bcs Latin had different word order, declinations, didn’t have any articles or had conjunction or times like their languages) and I am so disgusted with this outrageous appropriation of the most important European culture actually.
@@pinagrrrr2280what does this have to do with tatcha 😂
@@pinagrrrr2280wait i know this is unrelated to skin care however you have me really interested. bit i don’t quite understand what you mean, do you think you could explain or reply with key phrases to google cause i know you’re not supposed comment links
@@pinagrrrr2280 This is not equivalent at all because the designation of Latin America and Latino comes from being colonized by Spain and other Romance language speaking countries. It’s called Latin America because their European colonizers forced them to speak Romance languages also known as Latin languages because they descended from Latin. As you referenced, this is a subgroup of Italic branch of languages. This is the accepted linguistic classification of these languages.
This is a false equivalence as Europe was the dominant culture that forced themselves upon the indigenous South Americans and the people they enslaved. Latin America wouldn’t be Latin America without European imperalism and colonization, it’s not a designation that South American and people descended from South Americans chose. European colonizers invaded and attempted to destroy the indigenous South American cultures preventing people from identifying with their original languages and cultures. Europe is responsible for people identifying and being identified as Latin American.
@@mr.bingusthecat They’re making a false equivalence. The Latin in Latin America come from being colonized by Europe. Latin Languages is another name for Romance languages. It is not appropriation because the naming of the Latin language group was originally created by European colonizers.
It cannot be appropriated because it was forced upon South Americans without their consent. They would’ve never identified themselves as Latin or Latino/a if they were not invaded by Euopeans that identified themselves as Latin. The identification of South Americans as Latin was also done in an attempt by the indigenous south americans to fight for equal rights under colonialist occupation.
The chapter titles are giving GCSE Powerpoint presentation - I live! 😂❤
Have you ever talked about tinted serums / moisturizers ???😳😳😳 makeup that acts as skincare too…
You should definitely make a video on that
I hate that she was intimidated enough to not stand up for herself. They wouldn’t have tried that if she was a man.
Never understood the hype over Tatcha at the time. It was weirdly fragranced and gave the same results cheaper products on the market could do. 🤦♀
Cerave products work relatively the same as Tatcha
@@savannap7823Except that doesn’t apply to everyone. Some people wash their face with just water, wear blue tin Nivea cream, and never have issues. I personally have combination dry skin and my skin has never been more dry and tired looking as when I was using Cerave. I didn’t realise I had naturally glowy skin until I stopped using it.
I personally don’t use Tatcha, but I like Sensai and that’s not cheap either. Just use what works for you.
That dewy cream softened my skin better than anything else. I must admit. It’s still just too damn expensive.
I tried a sample of the purple moisturiser and yeah it felt really nice however not 6x as good as my glow hub moisturiser which i love
@@savannap7823Cerave works better imo
Excellent video! Love the history and background of the Tatcha brand!
.... I first thought you would talk about Rituals, cause they are all about that cultural appropriation!
(love these episodes!)
We weren't able to find those products in Europe if it wasn't for Rituals so for me it is different
I love how some of their products smell. Also Rituals does have good stuff.
It’s one thing to adopt Japanese skincare ingredients and technology, but quite another to market a culture’s traditions if they’re not your own. Interesting discussion, thanks James.
I only began exploring Tatcha’s product line during Covid - because the price point 😳. I think I tried their first product in a Cult Beauty advent calendar 🤔. I have to admit, I 💜 their Dewy Skin moisturizer… and the Overnight Indigo Repair Serum ⭐️😍 my sensitive skin has never been happier.
Accusing any east asian of appropriating japanese culture, is like accusing the First Nation native americans of appropriating american culture. Colonizers don't get the "cultural appropriation" victim card, sorry.
I appreciate the analogy to help me rethink my statement and reconsider the language I used. Thanks for the learning opportunity.
Just because Taiwan was colonized doesn’t erase the fact that tatcha the brand has engaged in cultural appropriation. Especially when the owner makes it a point to have the “geishas taught me everything” marketing as a storyline and then makes glaring gaffes like the kimono debacle. She could’ve founded the brand on her Taiwanese heritage, or have even said these are Japanese inspired products but our own twist. Instead she decided to place the brand in heavily japanese coded territory which means at that point you are making an active choice to align your work with the “colonizers” so you can’t get mad when they call you out.
It’s also interesting to note tatcha’s primary audience is another set of “colonizers” which makes the CA accusations even more poignant because do you think outside groups care about the nuance about who colonized who and for how long? Actual Japanese people are not buying this product en masse. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not a huge brand amongst other East Asian countries as well. Can the culture tatcha is drawing from not point out the smoke and mirrors is using to sell a vision of Japan to others that’s not actually real?
I love my Tatcha Dewy cream in the purple jar, works great on my dry skin, I usually stock up when they have their big sale.😊
When is that?! 😮
@@jaichiavang7058 usually around Xmas or Black Friday sales
Didn't know this about them, thank you for making this James!
I love Tatcha's face wash (cream and enzyme) and their moisturizers. It is a luxurious experience
I worked for a wealthy Japanese couple in their US-based small business. They had mentioned hosting Vicki at an event once. The wife noted that she "isn't Japanese," but aside from that, they didn't seem that very bothered. Then again, they were extremely non-confrontational. I was usually the one initiating hard conversations. Even if they were being polite, I do think it's interesting that she would bring it up. It's clearly something people are aware of and associate with the brand.
I feel like I would buy Tatcha just for the packaging. Its dangerous for my credit card I must admit hahah 😂
I had tatcha products for a bit and I couldn’t use the majority of them because of my rosacea but they were always on display!
@JamesWelsh It's one of those brands where I would keep the container forever. Plus, Purple is my favourite colour, so that definitely works for me, haha. It's definitely expensive, but then again, I've seen brands be expensive that literally use cheap plastic basic packaging that just doesn't fit the demographic, so what can I say really. Im a skincare enthusiast, so I know my ingredients, and I know some brands just dont get it right, haha, but tatcha seems very good quality, so cudos to them. X
Let me tell you about Tatcha. I purchased a book on their website, THEIR book, about homemade Japanese skincare remedies, for over $20, with shipping, etc. I waited over a month to get this book. Then I saw the same exact book at 5 below, a discount dollar store here in the US, for $2, on clearance, weeks after getting my book!
Surprisingly this brand doesn’t have as many “scary” controversies as I am used to hearing at this point. And fact that it’s woman established and woman lead is so nice to hear, makes me feel less bad about spending money on it 😭🤣
I am so happy that you point out the fact that 'clean' doesn't always mean that it is the best for sensitive skin types. I scoff when I see clean labels on products, always eager to tell us they are 'clean brands' and emphasize their usage of natural ingredients and proudly listing whatever they exclude in their formulation. Like you pointed out, it is those very natural ingredients that cause allergic reactions for certain people. When it comes down to it, from a scientific perspective, what companies tout as being natural ingredients are chemicals that were sourced "naturally". I know what my skin can't take so when I shop for my skincare and makeup products, there is a list that I watch out for and they aren't the 'synthetic chemicals' that people have undeserved fear of ;)
I really enjoy these behind the beauty deep dives on products and brands, fascinating!
I always appreciate the effort you put into making these videos. They are always well researched, well organized, and well told stories. It’s a gift that you can make non-fiction events feel this interesting to listen to.
Thanks for the video James, very insightful, I actually had no idea it was meant to be Japanese-inspired. On that note - it is not too farfetched to believe that the founder of Tatcha considers herself to have a connection with Japanese culture. Taiwan was a colony of Japan's for 50 years, between 1895 and 1945, and their culture is very much present in Taiwan, whose culture I'd describe as a mix of Chinese, Japanese and their own Taiwanese one. Contrary to many former coloniser-colony relationships, most Taiwanese think affectionately of Japan and admire their innovation and approaches. I live in Taiwan by the way, so this is from my own observations and research into the history and culture, so take it with a grain of salt as I'm sure there is a lot to uncover on the topic.
India was under British colonial rule for 200 years but we would be weirded out if an Indian appropriated traditional British rituals / traditions in a product like Tsai is doing. And then they had Chinese and then white man…and still no Japanese person in a management position.
I absolutely love their water cream and the matcha cleanser, my skin loves them too
Ive always heard and seen Tatcha products but i never knew much about the brand so this is cool
When you said the 3 ingredients looked good together I imagined those ingredients as nice friends and as soon as I had that thought I quickly arose from my nap to tell you this
Please don’t think I’m weird I’m somewhat but more than somewhat high sorry
I can’t say I love Tatcha. I LOVE my water cream (it’s my fave moisturiser), Matcha Cleanser and Deep Cleanser tho. Obsessed with those. But I’m not a one brand girly and I have a stable routine so I don’t branch out very often, if it all. Tatcha is expensive but they last. Or maybe I make it last haha
I found it so odd that whilst in Japan last month my daughter was unable to find Tatcha products anywhere - from Japan with love, just don’t go to Japan to buy our products as we don’t sell them in Japan.. ??
Why all the hate for Tatcha? I get that they are not a Japanese brand per se, but if you do a deep dive into the beauty community there are tons and tons of brands that get their inspiration from other cultures. For example, Skyn Iceland is founded by a New Yorker, who has built a brand around Iceland skincare. Sol de Janiero which heavily base their brand off of Brazilian beauty culture but was founded by a Korean American who only lived in Brazil for a short time period. Furthermore, in regards to cultural appropriation of the founder of Tatcha, (who’s Taiwanese ) if you look back at history, Taiwan was under Japanese colonial rule for a long time so they are heavily influence by the Japanese.
People do rag on sol de Janeiro for not actually being brazilian all the time. No one knows what skyn Iceland is on a large scale, so how can people talk about what they don’t know exist. You would also have to look at if the founder of skyn Iceland is also building a brand off of being told “Icelandic secrets and tips towards better skin” and building a mythology around their brands like tatcha does that doesn’t exist.
Also just because brands market off of cultures they have no real clues about doesn’t mean we should be encouraging more to go down this road lmao. Especially if they pull a tatcha and get bought out by a culture that has even less of an idea about the culture the previous owners were using loosely
Doesn’t bother me at all. Started using them around 2017 or so introduced by my cantonese friend working in San Francisco 🎉 we could only afford it through another friends sephora discount- the Japanese theme concentration is not bothersome at all, and in my experience working in SF I had maaaany taiwanese customers who held Japanese products in high regard, so I’m not surprised. I think the founder Tsai had the right to do whatever she wanted creatively, probably more of a shame she left honestly, because with her leaves the creative insight. Making her step down is quite disgusting… while I still use some products I love, I dunno how to feel about it now or buying it again when kbeauty is an easy option now
I do adore the dewy skin cream. I've only bought the sample sizes for a few dollars in the ipsy shop. I don't think I'd ever pay retail, though.
That is how I tried the water cream! I love it, but can't afford it, and don't have access to Ipsy anymore 😅
Thank you for doing these videos! It’s so nourishing to make purchasing decisions on product reviews AND an understanding of the company. You are a truly gifted storyteller/educator. 💜
This reminds me of Sol de Janeiro…
I love these deep dives! Your voice is gorgeous.
This is my favorite kind of content from you! love seeing different brands' histories
This is great but just a little bummed at the mispronunciation of "Tsai" given that she was the focus of the video and it could've been easily googled ahead of time to confirm
Agree.
All I know is I have tried lots of Korean cleansers and Western cleansers, and Tatcha cleanser is the only one that feels so luxurious and truly cleansing. If I could buy a cheaper alternative, I would. Most Japanese style brands that make it to the US are insanely expensive. Shiseido, SK2, etc, are all super expensive.
I think it would be very cool if she did is skin care line within Tatcha but from her background.
Im obsessed with these videos❤️ Please keep this up 🙏🏽🙏🏽
Let’s look into what Japan did to Taiwan….
All the more reason it makes it weird that the owner leaned heavily into making the brand Japanese coded rather than Taiwanese or Japanese inspired with a twist. I’m Nigerian, British colonizers did a lot to the country, and you won’t see me create a brand that’s heavily British coded and tries to use some British mythology to unsuspecting consumers who have no idea of the history
Putting my water cream on now
Do you use the metal spoon that comes with it?
@@JamesWelsh I do. Haha. For the price, I'm gonna feel extra fancy. Lol
I love your “Behind the Beauty” videos, just one thing - “Tsai” is pronounced like “chai” but, the “ch” is close to teeth at the tip of the tongue 😊
I will say their indigo line is lovely on my eczema
Now I know why I've never splurged for any of their products! Great video James 🤠
I got a tatcha sample from Sephora one time and wasn’t moved. I didn’t realize it was a popular luxury brand until your video. Honestly, Laneige is the only skin care brand that gets me excited. Everything I use from them just works for me. I would love a deep dive on them 👀
Wow, Tsais name is written in a lot of ways in the subtitles. Just something to be aware of :) good video btw!
I keep seeing this brand when I’m online and I do like the packaging and that simplicity I associate with Japanese culture. I appreciate your deep dive into the brand!!! Thank you, James!
Cool video. I’ve been using tatcha since it showed up at Sephora.
I remember when Tatcha was this insanely beautiful niche brand that NO ONE knew about… it was nice to see them become super popular. I personally love the brand. My top picks are the cleansing oil, rice wash, essence, rice polish, indigo overnight cream. It was a bit disappointing when Vicky was asked to step down and now I feel like I never see her talking about the brand… products that I love are still amazing to me. I haven’t noticed a change but once they start switching from made in Japan to made in USA like shiseido did I’ll be out ✌🏼
i could be wrong, but normally if an asian last name has "ts" at the beginning of it, the t is silent. so her last name is probably pronounced as "sigh" not "tuh-sigh"
So interesting, really like this series. I remember being so excited when Tatcha came to Space NK but then I was just...meh. I mean plus I couldn't really afford it! I'm not convinced tho. So many influencers rave about the cream in the purple pot but it doesn't feel as hydrating as they claim...
Tatcha is expensive but since using their products I have the clearest skin I’ve had in my life