I use my sleeping bags with quilts to increase insulation. This way I don't compress sleeping bag too much and preserve living space inside it. In cold weather my -10C/ -15C down bag plus +10C synthetic quilt work down to -20/-25C. Also important to note that condensation happens on the top layer - the synthetic quilt, this way my down bag stays drier. Thanks for the vid.
This tip is mainly for military use, but I use it on civilian trips too when I have 2 bags instead of 1 thick (like you said with a cabin). In regards to putting 1 sleeping bag inside the other you “should” put the lighter/colder one OUTSIDE the bigger/warmer one. E.g. Carinthia Defence 4 inside Carinthia Defence 1. Even if it seems counter-intuitive it is for 2 reasons: 1: You will get condensation, but it will be on the outer sleeping bag. If you have limited time or heating sources the wet or frozen sleeping bag is the lighter one which makes it easier to dry. 2: You will get condensation, but it will be on the outer sleeping bag. If you can’t dry the outer bag, at least you still have the warmer one intact.
Good to know. I'll have to try it myself too. It just so happened that I was thinking about this same setup and bought two bags, one is a bit thicker and meant for slightly colder temperature than the other one, but the thinner one actually fits better over the thicker, even though they are both pretty much the same dimensions, so I kinda have to go with that, but now what you are saying, everything falls into place.
I don't know why you say mainly for military use. I'm not in the military and didn't learn it from the military or anyone in the military. Been doing this for almost 30 years.
@@BradyPatterson yeah, sounds almost like only military personnel are allowed to put one sleeping bag inside the other to be warmer 😁 it's probably because the military modular sleep system or MMSS is very popular amongst outdoor people. Meanwhile regular travelers go with one bag warm enough for the intended season.
I thought about it a lot and there's a weight concern too. With the winter sleeping bag outside we would carry more extra weight, especially when used separately. If that's not a big deal with down the difference is quite substantial with synthetic filling.
Aahhh it’s soo nice to see the tent that I spent some nights in! Dogsledding with Matti was one of the most amazing experiences i’ve ever had! 😍 Matti definitely knows what he is doing and talking about!
The advantage of stuffing one bag inside the other you get the insolation from each bag plus the added dead air space between the two bags adding 5-15F degrees of insulation value. The past few years I have adopted the MSS, Modular Sleep System used by the Cold weather armies. All the modules are placed inside the bivy bag including the sleeping pad. I only take the parts of the system needed for the night temperature. It has worked well for me from +120F to -30F. The range I used to travel in. At 83 I'm not getting out in the high and low temperature ranges anymore. With the MSS I have layering options. Instead of two sleeping bags I can add one sleeping bag and add down coat and long down bottoms. I also have three bag liner options to choose from, Sea and Sky, Hollow fill knit liner, Alpaca wool knit liner or a micro fiber liner. Years ago I turned my top opening sleeping bag into a double bag by sewing a nylon sheet the shape of the bag to creating a quilt. On a cold night my wife, me and our little kids could all sleep together in the tent. We also use it on a bed at home.
Yes, but technically it is still more weight efficient to just have more down and use one system. This has been researched. Down is far better at stilling/trapping air than a free air gap. With that said, I also use a two/combo system for more extreme cold since it is more cost effective than having 3 different systems for mild cold, cold, and extreme cold.
@@justinw1765 for practical matters the MSS system works the best. The Tree bear system is better than too warm ,too cold and just right. this system I make packing for four seasons from -20F to 110F. At -30 F to -60F which is beyond the scope of my response is into a range required for Arctic travel or work. This is where a bag rated to -60F is needed. A stuff bag for a -60 bag fix the size of a pillow case. The most important layer in the MSS system is the Bivy bag which stops air flow creating dead air insulation. One of the problems with creating an air tight system in that pesky 1-2 pints of moldy moisture produced during sleep. A system that allows for air moving the moisture in a zig zag route out of the sleep system limited heat lost and removes moisture from the system.
The Canadian Military had a good Arctic sleeping system in the 80-90's. Not sure what they are using now. The arctic sleeping bag consisted of 6 parts, that could all fit into a 18''x24" carrying bag. It consisted of a Cotton inner flannel liner, "washable". Inner bag sleeping, down filled. Outer bag sleeping, down filled, Outer rubberized ground sheet bag, Hood, and the storage bag. You were also issued a rubber air mattress, and or a ground mat. The whole system was assembled and laced together on the inside, as to not move around and acted as one unit. There was a Canadian military transport plane crash at the North Pole, a few decades ago. There was a raging blizzard and it took a few days to rescue them. This system was hailed for saving lives in extreme conditions with no heat and minuscule shelter. You can sometimes see them at surplus stores in Canada, but the one part usually suffices, for most camping in Southern Canada.
I have a summer (40°F/4°C) UGQ quilt/bag and a 3 season WM Terralite (25°F/-4°F). For extra cold weather I put the quilt/bag over the Terralite. I can also stuff a down blanket and a bag liner in the Terralite as it is very spacious, and throw a synthetic blanket over the top to keep the humidity out of the down. That and a good R-8+ pad with a Reflectix roll underneath and I can get down to about -30°F/-35°C. Layering can work super well, but be absolutely certain you test your equipment someplace safe where you can get out quickly if it goes wrong. Dying from exposure is a very easy thing to do.
Oh and if anyone is going to try layering, make sure your layers are not compressing each other (due to say the inner being the same size as the outer) as that will hurt the ability for down to loft
The two bag system is the goat. My Canadian Armed Forces ECW sleep system was my first, has kept me warm at -45 Celsius and very comfortable, easy to move around in. I like to use a fleece liner as base bag and add sleeping bags of varying weight for a given temperature range I expect to be in. I always Luke to have more bag than needed, you can always cool down by opening the bag but you will never be able to get warmer. I love your tip about using your bag as a blanket, I have been doing that for years in warmer weather. PS, Wiggy's offers some very good two bag systems for various temperature ratings, great bags.
I prefer to use sleeping bags from Wiggys for winter camping. They may be bulky and heavy but they handle moisture like no other sleeping bags I've used.
I also use the two bag or quilt technique here in the UK winter. By trial error i have found a synthetic lighter weight quilt for the outer works best for moisture management. Condensation forms in the outer qult, leaving the warmer down inner bag or quilt nice and dry and lofting fully. This really helps in the cold damp climate especially on multi day trips with limited drying opportunities. Great of you to share your experience with us Matti, thanks.
Hey Matti great Video 👍 I have a Carinthia g350 and use them until - 10° Celsius. When it's colder I'll take my Exped waterbloc 600 in the Carinthia. It is a great setup and the synthetic protect the down sleepingbag Greetings from Germany
I'm into astronomy and like sleeping out without a tent watching the stars, sometimes in cold desert winters. I use a US Army GTX bivy (Tennier Industries) then a -10 600 down over a 5 synthetic, over a reflective mat. I have on standby a heavy fleece insert which I rarely use but utilize as a pillow. Works.
Somewhat similar, but I combine a 10 C sleeping bag with an -18 C quilt for more extreme cold. When it gets down to near -18 C and colder, I use a VBL (vapor barrier liner) in combo, as condensation can be an issue with two down based sleep systems. The only issue with using a VBL though, is that you have to sleep in very lightweight/thin, quick drying baselayers (for me, usually a fishnet/mesh baselayer with a regular baselayer over it). I usually drape my coat over the top of the inner sleeping bag. For the VBL, I often use the metallized IR reflecting polyethylene emergency bivy's. However, these require a couple centimeters of free air space between you and its surface to work, so in most areas most of the time, you're not actually getting IR reflection benefit. I have thought about adhering some soft/packable foam loops to the inside of the bivy to create more space for the IR reflection, but am not sure its worth the faff of doing so. For one, you have to use expensive, specialized glues to adhere things to PE (because of its low surface energy). There is one hot glue that is reasonably priced though. Note: In really extreme cold temps (which I have not yet experienced), apparently most plastics will allow a decent amount of moisture vapor to permeate through, so condensation while lessened, can still be an issue over time (for longer trips).
The best tip I’ve gotten, was getting a cheap second hand fiber bag, and putting it over my winter sleeping bag. 1-2cm of extra fiber insulation makes a world of difference. The outer bag is also cheap so you can use it in front of camp fire. The outer bag will also catch the condensation if you’re sleeping outside the tent - and it dries faster than down when you’re going to dry it
If I'm using a sled, I'd probably go with a Wiggy's bag. Heavier and bulkier but oblivious to moisture. Most will last for decades. They're also much cheaper than down.
Winter set-up a Wiggy’s Over-Bag as the outer and a PHD ultralight feather down summer 5+ degrees Celsius bag as the inner, works great with a good R rated air mattress plus ground sheet. 👍
Been doing this for nearly 30 years with down inner, synthetic outer. Although about 10 years ago I switched to a quilt instead of sleeping bag for the inner bag.
Hi Matti, thank you for this information, I'm interested in the Ukrainian made sleeping bags, Rock Front. I often winter camp in my native Scotland, in February this year I camped high up in deep snow, got down below -10, maybe even -15, my water froze early on and I had a new sleeping bag, it was rated by the manufacturer to lower than what it was capable of, I was surprised when I woke up the next morning to be alive! It was a learning curve, I sold that and my matt, purchased a better insulated air mattress and a down sleeping bag from North Face, I have tested both sub zero since and was significantly better. I just got a small Fiskars axe, its lightweight, I don't need the heavy one to kill Elk or destroy Russian tanks, but it does seem like a good idea. Slava Ukraine, greetings from Scotland. All the best, Angus
Im old school, I've use a arctic extreme sleeping bag with a synthetic bag inside of it, i put these 2 bags inside my goretex bivy sack along with vapor barrier insulation and a ensolite pad underneath, I also wear merino wool longjohns, a balaclava, and wool socks, and I also put a stainless steel water bottle with hot water in it,and a jar to urinate in, But I also carry hot hands body warmers, and hand warmers,jus in case, if it gets to warm ,I jus shed a bag,
I've used the US military MSS since I got out in late 90s. Usually the black cold weather bag and Goretex bivy but do add the jungle bag or wool blanket if needed. Put sleeping mat inside bivy then bags. Put a piece of Tyvek down as ground sheet. Minnesota gets dang cold too.
Hi Matti, thanks for the video very helpful. I use a Mountain equipment Helium GT, they are extra wide for a bigger man like myself. I have the 400 GT and a 800 GT the 800 is rated at -16c I think I will have to check, but extremely warm. Stephen
My heavy, -25F, is a foot section for size 48/15, slim-fit through the legs, wide at the shoulder, large loose-fit head & double-zippers on the draft baffle. The down channels are V's to maintain even down-thickness, and the inside nylon is tighter than the outside layer again to minimize compaction cold-spots. I have tried a lot of configurations (I used to design & fabricate bags in Western Canada), and found putting the thinner, larger bag as an over-bag is most effective. It also doubles as my summer bag, as night-temperatures are often over +70F, the loose-semi-rectangular shape makes it more comfortable. In winter, for multi-night trips, regardless my configuration, I always top with a larger, simple nylon bag as a frost-bag. The body-frost freezes on the inside of the frost-bag, keeping the frost/moisture from freezing into & soaking the down. Even in the 3 milder seasons, if using a down bag, I use the frost bag to help keep the inside insulation from getting very wet. I've never had a stove in my tents, as they're all back-packable.
A Canadian channel whose name I can't remember said since the inside of your bag(s) is warm, and when the outside is below zero, the moisture wicking outwards will freeze before it has left. Night two, three etc etc will put more moisture towards the outer layers, getting colder each time. He first tried sleeping in a super light bivy bag inside his tent to keep the outer temp of his sleeping bag above freezing, then decided on having the same light bivy bag as the inside layer which forced most of the vapour from his body exit via the head hole, which he said works really well. If freezing water in the outer layers is going to happen that would make a synthetic outer a better idea than down perhaps?
I agree about a synthetic sleeping bag as the outer layer. That’s how I have done it back in old days. I don’t think you can get rid of the moisture. If it’s-20C outside the sleeping bag… there WILL be a condensation problem and a freeze point somewhere in the sleeping bag. You will never be able to come around that issue… /Matti
I've got a couple of centre zipped sleeping bags I use in my Hammock and love them inc DD and Carinthia. Centre zipped bags are scarce in the UK but these look great!!
@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA Yes, they are heavy. I also used a British Army Arctic bag. Great bit of kit, but when packed, it weighed the same as a small family car😆
You can calculate the approximate comfort temperature by: (x)-15+(y), where x=the comfort of the first bag. and y=the comfort of the second bag. With this -12 and -5 = -32 comfort. Works for me 😊❄️🌨️
No not really at all. Sleeping bags produce no heat. The body does and each person has a different metabolic rate under the same practices - so what works for you will not work for another most of the time. Sex and age also have much to do with it.
My theory for calculating the combined temperature of multiple insulation layers such as sleeping bags is based on the concept of R value. That is, a layer that is worth 10 deg will make a 10 degree difference to any system it is added too. If you add it to a system that is good to 0C, the you can go to -10C. If you add it to a system that is good to +5 C, then you can go to -5C. So let's say for the sake of argument that just in your sleepwear alone, you will be comfortable at +20C. If you then have 2 bags that are good for 15 deg and 30 deg, Then the lighter bag on it's own will be OK to +5C, the heavier bag on it's own is OK to -10C & combining both bags together is good to -25C. Provided of course that the sleeping pad system matches the performance of the bag systems. No sleeping bag can ever compensate for an inadequate pad & no pad can ever compensate for an inadequate bag system. Of course, the thermal value of sleeping gear also depends on the individual & their state of nutrition. You have to eat energy to be warm, either fats or carbs.
I don’t really understood your calculation of the temperatures… Slow brain today! But you are totally correct. Staying warm is a question of several factors like eating, moisture, tiredness etc. /Matti
"Either fats or carbs". The science says eating protein in the evening keeps your body warmest during the night. Fat is the 2nd best option and has much more calories (9 kcal/g vs 4 kcal/g in carbs or protein). Eating fat makes you tired which is good in the evening. Eating carbs, especially sugar/fast carbs, makes you energized so they're no good before sleeping. So it's best to save most carbs for the morning and eat them during the day, not so much in the evening.
Hi; I don't spend really money. I'm from Canada Quebec it come at -25 celsius or cooler day plus factor wind can go -35 celsius. What I have is a summer sleeping bag ,inside is flannel. In my inflate I have an emergency thin blanket with over a wool blanket. At the top of my summer sleeping bag I have another summer sleeping bag and I taped a thick emergency blanket on it. That is it.
Very useful video. I like information on various gear and how you use them in your outdoor activities. Great looking axe. Thank you for the information.
I greatly prefer a center zip in a sleeping bag. when I rotate during the night I get lost in a sidezip. I dont camp in the arctic, so my winter setup challenge is alot more about temperatures going above and below zero on the same outing. I have been told down should be able to vent better just like wool, in terms of using a sleeping bag above its intended temperature range (as in warmer weather than intended). if thats the case I might have to give down a try :)
That was interesting. You should sleep with your dogs, ha. That is a really nice axe. I have leather strops from Beavercraft and a small knife from BPS in the mail. Cheers from Canada.
I like to have fell in the floor when he talked about the ax, my wife spit her coffee out it was so funny. He was so casual about it. It's really really heavy, probably made out of Russian tanks. Great presentation and line. I subbed and liked just for that alone. I saw a video sort of like this except the guy was talking and talking and then said "Putin" and spit. And everytime he said Putin he "spit" same thing really I loved that one too. Maybe you can use that one too. Humor always heals the soul. I liked subbed and notified. I'm from Bedford Co. Va. U.S.A. Great tips and stuff looking forward to more video's. Great line so funny. Peace.
At first, I thought you were joking when you said you bought the axe for elks, but then I realised that elks can definitely be a danger. In the peace movement in the 70s, we had the slogan to convert tanks into ploughs. Your idea that the axe is made from a Russian tank reminded me. I really hope Ukraine will have peace soon and can afford to convert weapons to peaceful use. I've never considered putting a lighter sleeping bag into a warmer one. That's a good idea, but I wonder about the overall weight. I don't have a dog sledge; I carry it on my back. 😉Though the sleeping bags have become so lightweight that two together probably don't weigh more than a single old-style sleeping bag, I have to test that. It's a good idea.
Our old cold weather bags in the US military 50 yrs ago were 2 feather bags (before the newer MSS), we slept fine in -35'F. The intermediate cold bag inside the cold weather bag (had a gold silk liner, never seen one since), a rubber air mattress and inside the old 2 man canvas pup tent. We never used the arctic tents, even though we trained with the akio sled and fuel/ stove.
As usual, a good video on sleeping bags. I follow you on everything you say. I live on the west coast of Norway, but hike a little bit around, mainly in the southern part of Norway, where it is not so cold as in Jokkmokk. As you, I basically use two sleeping bags, one for summer use and one for autumn/winter purpose. As I have become of age, I now pay attention to two things in addition to my sleeping bag. One - I make sure that I have a good sleeping pad underneath my sleeping bag, preferably with two reindeer hides in addition, to isolate against the ground. Two - when its gets really cold, I use a wool blanket or a "fjellduken" on top of the winter sleeping bag, to reduce heat leakage. For my use this works well and keep my warm. But, for more extreme conditions, a double sleeping bag is probably the best solution.
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA Yes, a wool blanket is heavy. I can bring it when I am canoeing or in winter when I can bring my gear along on a sled/tobogan. If I have to carry the gear on my back, a wool blanket is too heavy.
Ser intressanta ut. Har du haft möjlighet att testa Rockfront i flera säsonger? Nyfiken på hållbarhet. Hälsningar från en vintertältare i Kiruna. /Micke
Great advice! I was thinking about that for some time and with your video I will do it. I have one down sleeping bag with comfort rating about zero degrees and maybe buy one summer sleeping bag? If I can get in that way -15 degrees it will be great!
That’s a very good question. Normally I really careful with that. This time I totally forgot that. I was so happy for an Ukrainian brand! Have you tried to find the information on Front Rock website? /Matti /Matti
@@helgegerlach6624rds is a big company mostly operating in china, rock front says that they are using ukrainian down, so Im pretty sure its not bought from RDS.
Hello Matti, according the answer from Rock Front, The downs in the sleeping Bags are not RDS Certified yet, but will be in the near future. Best regards to the far north Helge
Hey Matti and thank you, really good video! I think this rock front looks good option to me. How do you like the sizing of their bags? Im 187cm long and thats always a problem becouse many company is doing always 185 and the next one is too tall. Rock front looks like its 188cm and Im wondering could it be too good 😂
So good content matti! Genuine useful tips that’s worth a lot. I like when I can spent time watching a video and afterwards feel that is actually give me something, I didn’t “waste” my time. Keep up the work ✨👍👍☺️
I do not like sleeping bags at all, though I use one, but not as a bag but as like a quilt on top of me. It's a decent quality, well-made bag by a Danish company. I have a very roomy silk liner, which I do slip into, and two wool blankets, and I sleep on top of a good insulating mat. I sleep like a baby in temperatures around -2/-3C with this kit.
Another good one Matti! I learned the lesson myself in Abiskojaure. We slept at - 33 and I had only the Carinthia Def4, since then I am doubling it with the Tropen summer bag.
Thanks for sharing! I’m using RockFront 400UL Quilt, and it is awesome! It is 0° quilt, but I was warm in it in -4 °C too. Rockfront making great gear!
Ill give you some poorman experience and what works for me on many adventures. I have a cheap 3 season bag. When it gets cold i take my poncho liner and line my bag. When it gets extreme ( not your country extreme) my guess 0°f /-15°f. Anyway i use old fuel type handwarmer in a wool sock. I also have a down blanket i use with the poncho liner. My setup is not the lightest the sleeping bag is rather heavy the liners weight next to nothing and i always pack them. Winter is its own animal and it separates the real outdoorsman from the glamper. Of course gear is getting better but many are taking risks without proper training or planning incase things go sideways. I had a great sleeping bag from boyscouts even used it in the military. Someone decided i didn't need it as much as they did. Such is life.
Awesome video. The old Canadian military arctic bags were the two down bags inside each other with a goretex bivy bag, with a liner . They look very warm, but very heavy. Thank you Matti, your videos are the best.
I wouldn't use a down sleeping bag inside a synthetic one. I'd do it the opposite way if I were going to do that. The reason being the heavier synthetic bag is going to compress the down, and down works best when it has it's full loft. And on that topic, does your inner down bag not get compressed by your outer one? It does look like your outer one is a lot bigger, so maybe that's why it works. I will say, that at first you getting multiple bags as a way to save money didn't make any sense to me. But then I saw you were using a 3 season and a summer. Considering the fact I have 2 winters (One for really really cold), one 3 season, and 1 summer, I see what you mean about saving money. haha I hike all around the world, long trails mostly, and I do agree that I always use a bag that is about 10-15 degrees F lower in rating than what I am expecting to encounter.
I chose the synthetic outside because it’s more resistant to dirt/moisture etc. It’s easier to wash. I see your point. It’s maybe correct. In this video I use two down bags. /Matti
love watching your videos, thanks! In June I will start to walk the Norge På langs Norway with a detour through Sarek! ps: what kind of red black diamond jacket are you wearing there? greetings from friesland 🤙
Does it make a big difference if a "colder" sleeping bag is used inside a "warmer" one or if it's done vice versa? for example, if I put a 0C sleeping bag inside the -10C sleeping bag or if I sleep in a -10C bag and use a 0C bag as an additional quilt on top?
I especially like the center zip configuration of Rock Front Sleeping bags. I've not heard of "Rock Front" up until now. The only sleeping I have is Western Mountaineering Antelope (0ºF) it's been "overfilled" by WM. Mine has the Gore Windstopper outer fabric. WM sleeping bags are either right side or left side zippers, sadly, no center zips. You made no mention about Warranty or Customer Service? Rock Front's website says 24 months Warranty for their Sleeping bags. Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada, U.S.A.
For syntetic CARINTHIA makes quality sleeping bags. Awesome zipper and their temperature rating is trustworthy imo. Bulky but solid and includes a quility compression bag. Have found alot of the “in style” brands featured heavily on yt have poor temp rating compared to real life. So be careful of comparing their bulk based on numbers alone.
Very easy if you have a hot tent, the hot tent will naturally dry things out, just hang it up higher (flooring also helps keep the humidity down). If you don't I suggest using a synthetic outer layer (synthetic quilt) for your sleep system as body moisture will condense in it and not in the down.
Vill gärna åka hundsläde med er i vinter, helg, vecka spelar mindre roll. Jag har 2 veckor från idag där jag är fullt bokad tyvärr. Jag kommer höra av mig till er snart efter det. Har utrustning som täcker det mesta, jag hör av mig och ser om ni tycker jag behöver komplettera
Hej Joel! Vad roligt att du vill hänga med. Tyvärr är vi i det närmaste fullbokad den kommande vintern. Det är ju roligt på ett sätt att många bokar men tråkigt att vi måste säga nej till så många. Nästa vinter kanske? /Matti
The US military has a two bag cold weather sleep system, although it is of synthetic fill. Both bags are less than $300. I wonder if Swedish military has a similar system. And the US system has a waterproof bivy that goes over the bags for moisture resistance. I have the system, but have yet to use it n cold weather. I’m told it is good for below 0 Fahrenheit
Swedish military use a variant of Charintia 2 bag system as standard, Sovsäck 2000. There are many other different sleeping systems as well in use here. I have a similar system from Charintia and I have slept outdoors in -27C, works great!
The old system Sweden had was a down sleeping bag on the inside and a synthetic bag on the outside. Sweden, especially the northern parts, has a dryer climate than many countries so down works good.
@@petter5721 sovsäck 2000 fick man nog bara där behovet fanns, jag gjorde lumpen -08 och vi fick sovsäckar från haglöfs och ett standard liggunderlag. Det var rätt kyligt en del nätter. Nu använder jag själv carinthia tropen och defence 4 och uppblåsbart liggunderlag kombinerat med ett vanligt liggunderlag från Bergans
I have a full line of Beavercraft and BPS knives sand axes. They perform very well. Yes, some invader steel. All I have to say is "UKRAINE FOREVER". My best is Ukrainian and has been fighting for over two years now. Very glad she is alive. A lot of difference camping under the stars and instead of exploding rockets and drones. We've seen horrible things first hand. Really makes one appreciate a good safe and warm camping trip. Appreciate how good we have it this holiday season. Maybe a new sleeping bag under the tree. Matti talk about the underlayment pads sometime. Four times the warth of a sleeping bag to keep you really warm without so much bulk. Matti and Stina have a great holiday season. Maybe a vid of downtown Jokkmokk with all the lights. Very nice. If I said too much well, I meant it. All good from east Kentucky USA
Thanks! I have collected some air mats and I have planed a video about sleeping pads. I have planned it for several years and maybe it’s time… 🤣 A video from Jokkmokk… I would love to make that… but I’m not comfortable with filming around people… Hmmm… I have too practice that! ;-) /Matti
@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA my friend Mattias Eriksson did one a while back. The shopping at the bizzare downtown clothes and such all good. He rides motorcycles van travel motorboat and hikes. Nomad Adv tv. BrappCamp couple channels. Four good friends. TS Hansen Norway. Jarl Norwegia Xplorer. Mattias and Robert Balinger Swed. He just changed his channel. Motorcycle travel and more. They all watch yours
You promote Ukrainian products, and I have great respect for that alone... you also live, test, and use these products in the Arctic Circle... and I have great respect for your opinion too... what I'd like to add as my opinion from my humble experience from Northern Greece [and now Australia] is the use of heating pads... I use a lightweight sleeping bag, a fleece liner, and a cotton liner [the full combo, depending on the condition I may use the full, or partial combo...] and when needed I use safety pins to hold the heating pads in place, and a power bank to run them... a small portable solar panel to recharge my power bank and all electronics I need ... having something more than my core to generate heat at will [the heating pads] makes all the difference!... that's my humble opinion!
Thanks for the input. I have seen more and more of that coming! I meet one guy who had a thin electric sleeping bag inside his winter sleeping bag. He switched it on for an hour in the beginning of the night and then it was enough. Heating source is something we use in houses so why not in a sleeping bag? Maybe I’m just a little bit too old for that… maybe… 🤔 /Matti
Very annoying I cant see what I write until I have sent it... New syntetic bags might be better, safer, but in the old time (1980-s) when I bought my first bag syntetig bag was considered quite flamable, downbag very hard to get burning exept the thin fabric.
Is the down in the sleepingbag evenly placed everywere? Some manufacturers place less down on the back because they think you sleep on the back and turn yourself inside the bag while you sleep, what i am not doing, i am turning with the whole sleeping bag...
I have the same experience. Mushers are out there with their dog. The goes in low temperatures and bad weather and that’s gathering knowledge. 😃 /Matti
not wasting money dude. i bought a bag for £150 in 1997, still use it to this day. i guess I've spent 200 nights in it at temps down to -12 deg cel. no fire needed.
I've got The North Face Inferno -29C. In combination with Thermarest XTherm. It allows sleeping under the sky at -20C in your underpants only. And it weighs around 1400 grams. I wouldn't use it in temperatures higher than -5C though-too warm. At temperatures down to -5C, I use my 0C sleeping bag with additional insulation-down socks and a down sweater. Overall, sleeping mat is much more important than sleeping bag, tbh. With a warm sleeping bag, you can put all your clothing on you and sleep somewhat okay at much below sleeping bag comfort level. But with a cold sleeping mat, additional clothing doesn't help much.
I find your gear videos far too interesting 😆. I have a US poncho liner and a UK jungle sleeping bag for my summer options (or some wool blankets), but I think my sumer experiences have been a bit warmer! I got stuck nearly 20 years ago trying to work out what would be a good option for a 4 season bag. I went for a Ray Mears Golden Eagle - I figured Ray wouldn't steer you wrong😁. They were made by Nanok at the time. 20 years later that thing is still great. I ended up with a Nanok insulated coat/trousers/boots as a liner, but I've only used them with the summer grear - I've never been anywhere cold enough to use them inside the big bag. I'd be interested to hear what you think about sleeping mats. I use a foil/foam mat under an air mat when it's cold. Nice video as always 👍👍
I have too make something about sleeping pads… You are one of several persons who had written this!!! 🤣 I think you are totally right. I have to plan a new video!!! /Matti
Hi, like you I use the waffle foam mat on the bottom. To prevent a puncture. Some other YT channel, did a thermal test. They concluded, that the foil/foam mat on top of the air mattress, is warmer.
@@billpetersen298 Interesting. I figured it might be warmer that way, but I don't think I've really been in conditions cold enough to make me notice - the 4 season bag is plenty warm enough.
@@russ1046 Hi Russ, I'm on the wet coast of Canada. With all kinds of conditions here, summers are great, winter in the mountains cold but dry. In the coastal rainforest, wet, not bad, wet, and deadly cold wet. My British army bag, is my favourite, even though it isn't warm enough on it's own. For when it matters. I need to upgrade, and have had damp down bags, scare me. So I'll take a look at your Nanok bag.
A down sleeping without vapour barrier liner does not work on a multi-day deep winter trip. The moisture build up, combined with packing and unpacking the sleeping bag, will make the down loosing its insulation. Very dangerous! Why don't you mention this?
I use my sleeping bags with quilts to increase insulation. This way I don't compress sleeping bag too much and preserve living space inside it. In cold weather my -10C/ -15C down bag plus +10C synthetic quilt work down to -20/-25C. Also important to note that condensation happens on the top layer - the synthetic quilt, this way my down bag stays drier. Thanks for the vid.
This tip is mainly for military use, but I use it on civilian trips too when I have 2 bags instead of 1 thick (like you said with a cabin).
In regards to putting 1 sleeping bag inside the other you “should” put the lighter/colder one OUTSIDE the bigger/warmer one.
E.g. Carinthia Defence 4 inside Carinthia Defence 1.
Even if it seems counter-intuitive it is for 2 reasons:
1: You will get condensation, but it will be on the outer sleeping bag. If you have limited time or heating sources the wet or frozen sleeping bag is the lighter one which makes it easier to dry.
2: You will get condensation, but it will be on the outer sleeping bag. If you can’t dry the outer bag, at least you still have the warmer one intact.
I've always put the lighter bag inside, but what you say makes sense. I'll try it next time.
Good to know. I'll have to try it myself too. It just so happened that I was thinking about this same setup and bought two bags, one is a bit thicker and meant for slightly colder temperature than the other one, but the thinner one actually fits better over the thicker, even though they are both pretty much the same dimensions, so I kinda have to go with that, but now what you are saying, everything falls into place.
I don't know why you say mainly for military use. I'm not in the military and didn't learn it from the military or anyone in the military. Been doing this for almost 30 years.
@@BradyPatterson yeah, sounds almost like only military personnel are allowed to put one sleeping bag inside the other to be warmer 😁 it's probably because the military modular sleep system or MMSS is very popular amongst outdoor people. Meanwhile regular travelers go with one bag warm enough for the intended season.
I thought about it a lot and there's a weight concern too. With the winter sleeping bag outside we would carry more extra weight, especially when used separately. If that's not a big deal with down the difference is quite substantial with synthetic filling.
Aahhh it’s soo nice to see the tent that I spent some nights in!
Dogsledding with Matti was one of the most amazing experiences i’ve ever had! 😍
Matti definitely knows what he is doing and talking about!
@Antonseidl_ Hi Anton 👋! Thank you for your kind words.
Thanx Matti for your insight and also the effort you and Stina put in the videos. 👏👏👏
The advantage of stuffing one bag inside the other you get the insolation from each bag plus the added dead air space between the two bags adding 5-15F degrees of insulation value. The past few years I have adopted the MSS, Modular Sleep System used by the Cold weather armies. All the modules are placed inside the bivy bag including the sleeping pad. I only take the parts of the system needed for the night temperature. It has worked well for me from +120F to -30F. The range I used to travel in. At 83 I'm not getting out in the high and low temperature ranges anymore. With the MSS I have layering options. Instead of two sleeping bags I can add one sleeping bag and add down coat and long down bottoms. I also have three bag liner options to choose from, Sea and Sky, Hollow fill knit liner, Alpaca wool knit liner or a micro fiber liner. Years ago I turned my top opening sleeping bag into a double bag by sewing a nylon sheet the shape of the bag to creating a quilt. On a cold night my wife, me and our little kids could all sleep together in the tent. We also use it on a bed at home.
Yes, but technically it is still more weight efficient to just have more down and use one system. This has been researched. Down is far better at stilling/trapping air than a free air gap.
With that said, I also use a two/combo system for more extreme cold since it is more cost effective than having 3 different systems for mild cold, cold, and extreme cold.
@@justinw1765 for practical matters the MSS system works the best. The Tree bear system is better than too warm ,too cold and just right. this system I make packing for four seasons from -20F to 110F. At -30 F to -60F which is beyond the scope of my response is into a range required for Arctic travel or work. This is where a bag rated to -60F is needed. A stuff bag for a -60 bag fix the size of a pillow case. The most important layer in the MSS system is the Bivy bag which stops air flow creating dead air insulation. One of the problems with creating an air tight system in that pesky 1-2 pints of moldy moisture produced during sleep. A system that allows for air moving the moisture in a zig zag route out of the sleep system limited heat lost and removes moisture from the system.
The Canadian Military had a good Arctic sleeping system in the 80-90's. Not sure what they are using now. The arctic sleeping bag consisted of 6 parts, that could all fit into a 18''x24" carrying bag. It consisted of a Cotton inner flannel liner, "washable". Inner bag sleeping, down filled. Outer bag sleeping, down filled, Outer rubberized ground sheet bag, Hood, and the storage bag. You were also issued a rubber air mattress, and or a ground mat. The whole system was assembled and laced together on the inside, as to not move around and acted as one unit. There was a Canadian military transport plane crash at the North Pole, a few decades ago. There was a raging blizzard and it took a few days to rescue them. This system was hailed for saving lives in extreme conditions with no heat and minuscule shelter. You can sometimes see them at surplus stores in Canada, but the one part usually suffices, for most camping in Southern Canada.
I have a summer (40°F/4°C) UGQ quilt/bag and a 3 season WM Terralite (25°F/-4°F). For extra cold weather I put the quilt/bag over the Terralite. I can also stuff a down blanket and a bag liner in the Terralite as it is very spacious, and throw a synthetic blanket over the top to keep the humidity out of the down. That and a good R-8+ pad with a Reflectix roll underneath and I can get down to about -30°F/-35°C. Layering can work super well, but be absolutely certain you test your equipment someplace safe where you can get out quickly if it goes wrong. Dying from exposure is a very easy thing to do.
Oh and if anyone is going to try layering, make sure your layers are not compressing each other (due to say the inner being the same size as the outer) as that will hurt the ability for down to loft
A lot of Weight than a very good sleeping bag no ? Depend also the weatjer ?
The two bag system is the goat. My Canadian Armed Forces ECW sleep system was my first, has kept me warm at -45 Celsius and very comfortable, easy to move around in. I like to use a fleece liner as base bag and add sleeping bags of varying weight for a given temperature range I expect to be in. I always Luke to have more bag than needed, you can always cool down by opening the bag but you will never be able to get warmer. I love your tip about using your bag as a blanket, I have been doing that for years in warmer weather. PS, Wiggy's offers some very good two bag systems for various temperature ratings, great bags.
I have a Rock Front 400 (non-UL), it's a nice bag, and I like that it transforms into a blanket. Thank you for supporting a Ukrainian manufacturer!
@@precambrian_rabbit 👍
Good idea. Seems obvious to do but this is the first time I've seen this mentioned.
I prefer to use sleeping bags from Wiggys for winter camping. They may be bulky and heavy but they handle moisture like no other sleeping bags I've used.
@@bwillan we've never heard about Wiggys.
I also use the two bag or quilt technique here in the UK winter. By trial error i have found a synthetic lighter weight quilt for the outer works best for moisture management. Condensation forms in the outer qult, leaving the warmer down inner bag or quilt nice and dry and lofting fully. This really helps in the cold damp climate especially on multi day trips with limited drying opportunities. Great of you to share your experience with us Matti, thanks.
Amazing tip for the sleeping system!
Hey Matti great Video 👍
I have a Carinthia g350 and use them until - 10° Celsius. When it's colder I'll take my Exped waterbloc 600 in the Carinthia.
It is a great setup and the synthetic protect the down sleepingbag
Greetings from Germany
@@einfach_draussen 👍
I have doubled up sleeping bags for years for cold weather. Works great. I just buy an regular bag for the inner and a larger one for the outer.
It’s a good way of saving some money.
;-)
/Matti
I'm into astronomy and like sleeping out without a tent watching the stars, sometimes in cold desert winters. I use a US Army GTX bivy (Tennier Industries) then a -10 600 down over a 5 synthetic, over a reflective mat. I have on standby a heavy fleece insert which I rarely use but utilize as a pillow. Works.
Somewhat similar, but I combine a 10 C sleeping bag with an -18 C quilt for more extreme cold. When it gets down to near -18 C and colder, I use a VBL (vapor barrier liner) in combo, as condensation can be an issue with two down based sleep systems. The only issue with using a VBL though, is that you have to sleep in very lightweight/thin, quick drying baselayers (for me, usually a fishnet/mesh baselayer with a regular baselayer over it). I usually drape my coat over the top of the inner sleeping bag. For the VBL, I often use the metallized IR reflecting polyethylene emergency bivy's. However, these require a couple centimeters of free air space between you and its surface to work, so in most areas most of the time, you're not actually getting IR reflection benefit. I have thought about adhering some soft/packable foam loops to the inside of the bivy to create more space for the IR reflection, but am not sure its worth the faff of doing so. For one, you have to use expensive, specialized glues to adhere things to PE (because of its low surface energy). There is one hot glue that is reasonably priced though.
Note: In really extreme cold temps (which I have not yet experienced), apparently most plastics will allow a decent amount of moisture vapor to permeate through, so condensation while lessened, can still be an issue over time (for longer trips).
The best tip I’ve gotten, was getting a cheap second hand fiber bag, and putting it over my winter sleeping bag. 1-2cm of extra fiber insulation makes a world of difference. The outer bag is also cheap so you can use it in front of camp fire. The outer bag will also catch the condensation if you’re sleeping outside the tent - and it dries faster than down when you’re going to dry it
@mikaelp9826 👍 Yes, there is a lot of secon hand outdoor gear out there that is almost like new, almost not used. /Stina
If I'm using a sled, I'd probably go with a Wiggy's bag. Heavier and bulkier but oblivious to moisture. Most will last for decades. They're also much cheaper than down.
jerry wigutow has forgot more about sleeping bag design than all all the major brands put together.
Winter set-up a Wiggy’s Over-Bag as the outer and a PHD ultralight feather down summer 5+ degrees Celsius bag as the inner, works great with a good R rated air mattress plus ground sheet. 👍
Been doing this for nearly 30 years with down inner, synthetic outer. Although about 10 years ago I switched to a quilt instead of sleeping bag for the inner bag.
Thank you for this, centre zip bags are hard to find these days!
Matti, this is one of the most useful videos you ever did to those who are seriously into outdoors
Hi Matti, thank you for this information, I'm interested in the Ukrainian made sleeping bags, Rock Front. I often winter camp in my native Scotland, in February this year I camped high up in deep snow, got down below -10, maybe even -15, my water froze early on and I had a new sleeping bag, it was rated by the manufacturer to lower than what it was capable of, I was surprised when I woke up the next morning to be alive! It was a learning curve, I sold that and my matt, purchased a better insulated air mattress and a down sleeping bag from North Face, I have tested both sub zero since and was significantly better. I just got a small Fiskars axe, its lightweight, I don't need the heavy one to kill Elk or destroy Russian tanks, but it does seem like a good idea. Slava Ukraine, greetings from Scotland. All the best, Angus
@@McConnachy 👍
I love the setup I used two sleeping bags myself awesome videos always thanks for making all your great videos I follow your advice all the time.
That's a good idea for sure.
Good advice sir
Im old school, I've use a arctic extreme sleeping bag with a synthetic bag inside of it, i put these 2 bags inside my goretex bivy sack along with vapor barrier insulation and a ensolite pad underneath, I also wear merino wool longjohns, a balaclava, and wool socks, and I also put a stainless steel water bottle with hot water in it,and a jar to urinate in, But I also carry hot hands body warmers, and hand warmers,jus in case, if it gets to warm ,I jus shed a bag,
Western Mountaineering Ultralite in side an Antelope inside an insulated Fjellduken - minus 35 celsius, no condensation
I've used the US military MSS since I got out in late 90s. Usually the black cold weather bag and Goretex bivy but do add the jungle bag or wool blanket if needed. Put sleeping mat inside bivy then bags. Put a piece of Tyvek down as ground sheet. Minnesota gets dang cold too.
I have never tried the sleeping pad inside the bivy bag!!!
/Matti
Hi Matti, thanks for the video very helpful. I use a Mountain equipment Helium GT, they are extra wide for a bigger man like myself. I have the 400 GT and a 800 GT the 800 is rated at -16c I think I will have to check, but extremely warm.
Stephen
I have not used the 400 inside the 800 as I think I would melt 😅
thank you so much for your support 🇺🇦
I have rockfront sleeping bags as well and they serve very well!
Do you ever use high quality wool blankets?. Loved your cold summer statement. It gets to 45.55 C in the shade here in Texas USA.
My heavy, -25F, is a foot section for size 48/15, slim-fit through the legs, wide at the shoulder, large loose-fit head & double-zippers on the draft baffle. The down channels are V's to maintain even down-thickness, and the inside nylon is tighter than the outside layer again to minimize compaction cold-spots. I have tried a lot of configurations (I used to design & fabricate bags in Western Canada), and found putting the thinner, larger bag as an over-bag is most effective. It also doubles as my summer bag, as night-temperatures are often over +70F, the loose-semi-rectangular shape makes it more comfortable. In winter, for multi-night trips, regardless my configuration, I always top with a larger, simple nylon bag as a frost-bag. The body-frost freezes on the inside of the frost-bag, keeping the frost/moisture from freezing into & soaking the down. Even in the 3 milder seasons, if using a down bag, I use the frost bag to help keep the inside insulation from getting very wet. I've never had a stove in my tents, as they're all back-packable.
There exists really lightweight foldable wood stoves!!! They makes a huge difference?
/Matti
A Canadian channel whose name I can't remember said since the inside of your bag(s) is warm, and when the outside is below zero, the moisture wicking outwards will freeze before it has left. Night two, three etc etc will put more moisture towards the outer layers, getting colder each time.
He first tried sleeping in a super light bivy bag inside his tent to keep the outer temp of his sleeping bag above freezing, then decided on having the same light bivy bag as the inside layer which forced most of the vapour from his body exit via the head hole, which he said works really well.
If freezing water in the outer layers is going to happen that would make a synthetic outer a better idea than down perhaps?
I agree about a synthetic sleeping bag as the outer layer. That’s how I have done it back in old days.
I don’t think you can get rid of the moisture. If it’s-20C outside the sleeping bag… there WILL be a condensation problem and a freeze point somewhere in the sleeping bag. You will never be able to come around that issue…
/Matti
I've got a couple of centre zipped sleeping bags I use in my Hammock and love them inc DD and Carinthia. Centre zipped bags are scarce in the UK but these look great!!
We have carinthia sleeping bags also. They are heavy duty. Not super light but good.
/Matti
@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA Yes, they are heavy. I also used a British Army Arctic bag. Great bit of kit, but when packed, it weighed the same as a small family car😆
You should look into Wiggy’s bags as well as their other products. They set the standard in cold weather gear
Thanks for input. I have to check out Wiggys.
/Matti
I have Nemo Disco -1C and sea to summit ember ebII -2C, These cover UK summer and through winter when combined.
You can calculate the approximate comfort temperature by: (x)-15+(y), where x=the comfort of the first bag. and y=the comfort of the second bag. With this -12 and -5 = -32 comfort. Works for me 😊❄️🌨️
No not really at all. Sleeping bags produce no heat. The body does and each person has a different metabolic rate under the same practices - so what works for you will not work for another most of the time. Sex and age also have much to do with it.
My theory for calculating the combined temperature of multiple insulation layers such as sleeping bags is based on the concept of R value. That is, a layer that is worth 10 deg will make a 10 degree difference to any system it is added too. If you add it to a system that is good to 0C, the you can go to -10C. If you add it to a system that is good to +5 C, then you can go to -5C. So let's say for the sake of argument that just in your sleepwear alone, you will be comfortable at +20C. If you then have 2 bags that are good for 15 deg and 30 deg, Then the lighter bag on it's own will be OK to +5C, the heavier bag on it's own is OK to -10C & combining both bags together is good to -25C. Provided of course that the sleeping pad system matches the performance of the bag systems. No sleeping bag can ever compensate for an inadequate pad & no pad can ever compensate for an inadequate bag system. Of course, the thermal value of sleeping gear also depends on the individual & their state of nutrition. You have to eat energy to be warm, either fats or carbs.
I don’t really understood your calculation of the temperatures… Slow brain today!
But you are totally correct. Staying warm is a question of several factors like eating, moisture, tiredness etc.
/Matti
"Either fats or carbs". The science says eating protein in the evening keeps your body warmest during the night. Fat is the 2nd best option and has much more calories (9 kcal/g vs 4 kcal/g in carbs or protein).
Eating fat makes you tired which is good in the evening. Eating carbs, especially sugar/fast carbs, makes you energized so they're no good before sleeping.
So it's best to save most carbs for the morning and eat them during the day, not so much in the evening.
I use the same system in wiggy’s sleeping bags
Hi; I don't spend really money. I'm from Canada Quebec it come at -25 celsius or cooler day plus factor wind can go -35 celsius. What I have is a summer sleeping bag ,inside is flannel. In my inflate I have an emergency thin blanket with over a wool blanket. At the top of my summer sleeping bag I have another summer sleeping bag and I taped a thick emergency blanket on it. That is it.
Neat setups & gear.
Very useful video. I like information on various gear and how you use them in your outdoor activities. Great looking axe. Thank you for the information.
I have the Tennier systems us military with bivvy 👍
I greatly prefer a center zip in a sleeping bag. when I rotate during the night I get lost in a sidezip. I dont camp in the arctic, so my winter setup challenge is alot more about temperatures going above and below zero on the same outing. I have been told down should be able to vent better just like wool, in terms of using a sleeping bag above its intended temperature range (as in warmer weather than intended). if thats the case I might have to give down a try :)
Front Rock makes also quilts and other sleeping bags.
/Matti
Yes their quilts looks very interesting too. Can be used with hammocks asswell (on the outside).
Great video! I have seen a chart that shows how good 2 sleeping bags are. I should find it. I appreciate your support of Ukraine.
That was interesting. You should sleep with your dogs, ha. That is a really nice axe. I have leather strops from Beavercraft and a small knife from BPS in the mail. Cheers from Canada.
Thank you for this video.
I like to have fell in the floor when he talked about the ax, my wife spit her coffee out it was so funny. He was so casual about it. It's really really heavy, probably made out of Russian tanks. Great presentation and line. I subbed and liked just for that alone. I saw a video sort of like this except the guy was talking and talking and then said "Putin" and spit. And everytime he said Putin he "spit" same thing really I loved that one too. Maybe you can use that one too. Humor always heals the soul. I liked subbed and notified. I'm from Bedford Co. Va. U.S.A. Great tips and stuff looking forward to more video's. Great line so funny. Peace.
Thanks!!!
I totally agree… Humour heals.
😃
/Matti
At first, I thought you were joking when you said you bought the axe for elks, but then I realised that elks can definitely be a danger. In the peace movement in the 70s, we had the slogan to convert tanks into ploughs. Your idea that the axe is made from a Russian tank reminded me. I really hope Ukraine will have peace soon and can afford to convert weapons to peaceful use.
I've never considered putting a lighter sleeping bag into a warmer one. That's a good idea, but I wonder about the overall weight. I don't have a dog sledge; I carry it on my back. 😉Though the sleeping bags have become so lightweight that two together probably don't weigh more than a single old-style sleeping bag, I have to test that. It's a good idea.
Our old cold weather bags in the US military 50 yrs ago were 2 feather bags (before the newer MSS), we slept fine in -35'F.
The intermediate cold bag inside the cold weather bag (had a gold silk liner, never seen one since), a rubber air mattress and inside the old 2 man canvas pup tent. We never used the arctic tents, even though we trained with the akio sled and fuel/ stove.
As usual, a good video on sleeping bags. I follow you on everything you say. I live on the west coast of Norway, but hike a little bit around, mainly in the southern part of Norway, where it is not so cold as in Jokkmokk.
As you, I basically use two sleeping bags, one for summer use and one for autumn/winter purpose.
As I have become of age, I now pay attention to two things in addition to my sleeping bag.
One - I make sure that I have a good sleeping pad underneath my sleeping bag, preferably with two reindeer hides in addition, to isolate against the ground.
Two - when its gets really cold, I use a wool blanket or a "fjellduken" on top of the winter sleeping bag, to reduce heat leakage. For my use this works well and keep my warm.
But, for more extreme conditions, a double sleeping bag is probably the best solution.
Isn’t the wool blanket very heavy???
I totally agree about how important the sleeping pads are!
/Matti
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA Yes, a wool blanket is heavy. I can bring it when I am canoeing or in winter when I can bring my gear along on a sled/tobogan. If I have to carry the gear on my back, a wool blanket is too heavy.
Is it possible for you to make a short video where it is used as an underquilt on an eno skylite bridge hammock. Greetings from Denmark
@michaelnielsen2561 Sorry, we do not own a hammock. But maybe one day we do 😉
Thanks, great tips 👍👌
Ser intressanta ut. Har du haft möjlighet att testa Rockfront i flera säsonger? Nyfiken på hållbarhet. Hälsningar från en vintertältare i Kiruna. /Micke
Great advice! I was thinking about that for some time and with your video I will do it. I have one down sleeping bag with comfort rating about zero degrees and maybe buy one summer sleeping bag? If I can get in that way -15 degrees it will be great!
Hello Matti, thank you for The very intersting Video. I just have 1 Question: Do you probably know if The Down is RDS Certified?
That’s a very good question. Normally I really careful with that. This time I totally forgot that. I was so happy for an Ukrainian brand!
Have you tried to find the information on Front Rock website?
/Matti
/Matti
@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA as I didnt find it there, I asked them today, but No response yet. I keep you posted when I get an answer. 😉
@@helgegerlach6624rds is a big company mostly operating in china, rock front says that they are using ukrainian down, so Im pretty sure its not bought from RDS.
Hello Matti, according the answer from Rock Front, The downs in the sleeping Bags are not RDS Certified yet, but will be in the near future. Best regards to the far north Helge
Hey Matti and thank you, really good video! I think this rock front looks good option to me. How do you like the sizing of their bags? Im 187cm long and thats always a problem becouse many company is doing always 185 and the next one is too tall. Rock front looks like its 188cm and Im wondering could it be too good 😂
Thanks for sharing!
So happy I found this. I love rock front as a brand but it’s so hard to find video reviews of their products.
So good content matti! Genuine useful tips that’s worth a lot. I like when I can spent time watching a video and afterwards feel that is actually give me something, I didn’t “waste” my time. Keep up the work ✨👍👍☺️
Entertainment in combination with education is really good!
:-)
They actually call it infoteiment!
:-)
/Matti
I do not like sleeping bags at all, though I use one, but not as a bag but as like a quilt on top of me. It's a decent quality, well-made bag by a Danish company. I have a very roomy silk liner, which I do slip into, and two wool blankets, and I sleep on top of a good insulating mat. I sleep like a baby in temperatures around -2/-3C with this kit.
Do you use a vapor barrier liner ?
Jag köpte nästan en 400 ul, men det var precis kring black friday och de hann bli slutsålda. Har dunbrallor på väg från dem istället, bland annat.
Thanks Matti. Such a simple idea. You just saved me a lot of money. Much appreciated/
That’s great !!!
/Matti
Another good one Matti! I learned the lesson myself in Abiskojaure. We slept at - 33 and I had only the Carinthia Def4, since then I am doubling it with the Tropen summer bag.
Very informative. Thank you for supporting Ukraine companies also. God knows the Ukrainians need as much support as we can give.
@@RobertRobert-d2rthank you!
Thanks for sharing! I’m using RockFront 400UL Quilt, and it is awesome! It is 0° quilt, but I was warm in it in -4 °C too. Rockfront making great gear!
Ill give you some poorman experience and what works for me on many adventures.
I have a cheap 3 season bag. When it gets cold i take my poncho liner and line my bag. When it gets extreme ( not your country extreme) my guess 0°f /-15°f.
Anyway i use old fuel type handwarmer in a wool sock.
I also have a down blanket i use with the poncho liner.
My setup is not the lightest the sleeping bag is rather heavy the liners weight next to nothing and i always pack them.
Winter is its own animal and it separates the real outdoorsman from the glamper. Of course gear is getting better but many are taking risks without proper training or planning incase things go sideways.
I had a great sleeping bag from boyscouts even used it in the military. Someone decided i didn't need it as much as they did. Such is life.
Double is the way to go ... especially when it gets to -30. That will get you keep you very warm
It takes more than just a bag to keep you warm. What ground cover do you use? Do you use a cot?
That’s true. I use expend down mat. I think I have to make a video about this subject!
😃
/Matti
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA I'd love to see it. Never seen a down mat. I'll sub to get the video when you make it! Thank you!
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA Thank you I'd love to see it as I've never seen a "down mat". I'll sub to see the vid when it comes out! Thanks.
Awesome video. The old Canadian military arctic bags were the two down bags inside each other with a goretex bivy bag, with a liner . They look very warm, but very heavy.
Thank you Matti, your videos are the best.
I wouldn't use a down sleeping bag inside a synthetic one. I'd do it the opposite way if I were going to do that. The reason being the heavier synthetic bag is going to compress the down, and down works best when it has it's full loft. And on that topic, does your inner down bag not get compressed by your outer one? It does look like your outer one is a lot bigger, so maybe that's why it works. I will say, that at first you getting multiple bags as a way to save money didn't make any sense to me. But then I saw you were using a 3 season and a summer. Considering the fact I have 2 winters (One for really really cold), one 3 season, and 1 summer, I see what you mean about saving money. haha I hike all around the world, long trails mostly, and I do agree that I always use a bag that is about 10-15 degrees F lower in rating than what I am expecting to encounter.
I chose the synthetic outside because it’s more resistant to dirt/moisture etc. It’s easier to wash.
I see your point. It’s maybe correct.
In this video I use two down bags.
/Matti
More pro tips! Would you trust 2 synthetic bags?
love watching your videos, thanks! In June I will start to walk the Norge På langs Norway with a detour through Sarek! ps: what kind of red black diamond jacket are you wearing there? greetings from friesland 🤙
Black Diamon Beley Parka.
I hope you find it. I think I have made a video about that jacket…
/Matti
Does it make a big difference if a "colder" sleeping bag is used inside a "warmer" one or if it's done vice versa? for example, if I put a 0C sleeping bag inside the -10C sleeping bag or if I sleep in a -10C bag and use a 0C bag as an additional quilt on top?
I especially like the center zip configuration of Rock Front Sleeping bags. I've not heard of "Rock Front" up until now.
The only sleeping I have is Western Mountaineering Antelope (0ºF) it's been
"overfilled" by WM. Mine has the Gore Windstopper outer fabric. WM sleeping bags are either right side or left side zippers, sadly, no center zips.
You made no mention about Warranty or Customer Service? Rock Front's website says 24 months Warranty for their Sleeping bags.
Warm Regards from Reno, Nevada, U.S.A.
I didn’t know about Rock Fronts 24month warranty!!! That’s really good!
😊
/Matti
Stop Wasting Money on Sleeping Bags, stay home he he he.. Just kidding. Thanks for the video and tips. Be safe..
🤣😂🤣😂
That’s true… outdoor gear is expensive. Probably cheaper with drugs!
😂
/Matti
Hva anbefaler du for noen som er allergisk mot dun? Mange soveposer?
Kolla på ett märke som heter Carinthia. De gör bra sovsäckar som är prisvärda MEN syntet blir tyngre och mer volym.
/Matti
For syntetic CARINTHIA makes quality sleeping bags. Awesome zipper and their temperature rating is trustworthy imo. Bulky but solid and includes a quility compression bag. Have found alot of the “in style” brands featured heavily on yt have poor temp rating compared to real life. So be careful of comparing their bulk based on numbers alone.
Isbjørn er en norsk produsent av syntetiske soveposer. De lager også tilpassede størrelser.
How do you keep the bags dry over multi-day trips 🤔 if camping without stove?
Very easy if you have a hot tent, the hot tent will naturally dry things out, just hang it up higher (flooring also helps keep the humidity down). If you don't I suggest using a synthetic outer layer (synthetic quilt) for your sleep system as body moisture will condense in it and not in the down.
👋🏻 Dubbel sovsäck. Det var smart, hade jag nog inte kommit på själv. 😄
Standard I armén
Vill gärna åka hundsläde med er i vinter, helg, vecka spelar mindre roll. Jag har 2 veckor från idag där jag är fullt bokad tyvärr.
Jag kommer höra av mig till er snart efter det.
Har utrustning som täcker det mesta, jag hör av mig och ser om ni tycker jag behöver komplettera
Hej Joel!
Vad roligt att du vill hänga med. Tyvärr är vi i det närmaste fullbokad den kommande vintern. Det är ju roligt på ett sätt att många bokar men tråkigt att vi måste säga nej till så många.
Nästa vinter kanske?
/Matti
Also you can put a small self inflating sleep mat inside your bag if its big enough. Makes a big difference.
That’s new idea for me! I have to try. Do you put it between the layers of sleeping bags or inside the one you are sleeping in?
/Matti
The US military has a two bag cold weather sleep system, although it is of synthetic fill. Both bags are less than $300. I wonder if Swedish military has a similar system. And the US system has a waterproof bivy that goes over the bags for moisture resistance. I have the system, but have yet to use it n cold weather. I’m told it is good for below 0 Fahrenheit
Swedish military use a variant of Charintia 2 bag system as standard, Sovsäck 2000.
There are many other different sleeping systems as well in use here.
I have a similar system from Charintia and I have slept outdoors in -27C, works great!
The old system Sweden had was a down sleeping bag on the inside and a synthetic bag on the outside.
Sweden, especially the northern parts, has a dryer climate than many countries so down works good.
@@petter5721 sovsäck 2000 fick man nog bara där behovet fanns, jag gjorde lumpen -08 och vi fick sovsäckar från haglöfs och ett standard liggunderlag. Det var rätt kyligt en del nätter.
Nu använder jag själv carinthia tropen och defence 4 och uppblåsbart liggunderlag kombinerat med ett vanligt liggunderlag från Bergans
I have a full line of Beavercraft and BPS knives sand axes. They perform very well. Yes, some invader steel. All I have to say is "UKRAINE FOREVER". My best is Ukrainian and has been fighting for over two years now. Very glad she is alive. A lot of difference camping under the stars and instead of exploding rockets and drones. We've seen horrible things first hand. Really makes one appreciate a good safe and warm camping trip. Appreciate how good we have it this holiday season. Maybe a new sleeping bag under the tree. Matti talk about the underlayment pads sometime. Four times the warth of a sleeping bag to keep you really warm without so much bulk. Matti and Stina have a great holiday season. Maybe a vid of downtown Jokkmokk with all the lights. Very nice. If I said too much well, I meant it. All good from east Kentucky USA
Thanks!
I have collected some air mats and I have planed a video about sleeping pads. I have planned it for several years and maybe it’s time… 🤣
A video from Jokkmokk… I would love to make that… but I’m not comfortable with filming around people… Hmmm… I have too practice that!
;-)
/Matti
@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA my friend Mattias Eriksson did one a while back. The shopping at the bizzare downtown clothes and such all good. He rides motorcycles van travel motorboat and hikes. Nomad Adv tv. BrappCamp couple channels. Four good friends. TS Hansen Norway. Jarl Norwegia Xplorer. Mattias and Robert Balinger Swed. He just changed his channel. Motorcycle travel and more. They all watch yours
You promote Ukrainian products, and I have great respect for that alone... you also live, test, and use these products in the Arctic Circle... and I have great respect for your opinion too... what I'd like to add as my opinion from my humble experience from Northern Greece [and now Australia] is the use of heating pads... I use a lightweight sleeping bag, a fleece liner, and a cotton liner [the full combo, depending on the condition I may use the full, or partial combo...] and when needed I use safety pins to hold the heating pads in place, and a power bank to run them... a small portable solar panel to recharge my power bank and all electronics I need ... having something more than my core to generate heat at will [the heating pads] makes all the difference!... that's my humble opinion!
Thanks for the input.
I have seen more and more of that coming! I meet one guy who had a thin electric sleeping bag inside his winter sleeping bag. He switched it on for an hour in the beginning of the night and then it was enough.
Heating source is something we use in houses so why not in a sleeping bag?
Maybe I’m just a little bit too old for that… maybe… 🤔
/Matti
New syntetic bags considered much more flamable, a downbag was really hard to get burning.might be different but in the "old time" they were
Very annoying I cant see what I write until I have sent it... New syntetic bags might be better, safer, but in the old time (1980-s) when I bought my first bag syntetig bag was considered quite flamable, downbag very hard to get burning exept the thin fabric.
I paid 330 sek (about 30$) for my sleepingbag, and I slept in 15 degrees Celsius below zero. On the other hand, It was about 45 years ago...........
Is the down in the sleepingbag evenly placed everywere? Some manufacturers place less down on the back because they think you sleep on the back and turn yourself inside the bag while you sleep, what i am not doing, i am turning with the whole sleeping bag...
I think it’s speeds out kind of equal in the sleeping bag.
/Matti
@@JOKKMOKKGUIDERNA Ok, important, otherwise my back gets cold...
I someone wants to learn how to function in truly cold environments, much to learn from the mushing community.
I have the same experience. Mushers are out there with their dog. The goes in low temperatures and bad weather and that’s gathering knowledge.
😃
/Matti
👍👍
I like PHD from 🇬🇧 good you mention Ukraine
comfort level of only 21 F is not 4 season. Not in the USA & Canada anyway
You can use 3 very cheap sleeping bags to stay warm,(square models) is better for me, I want to move my legs free inside them.
not wasting money dude. i bought a bag for £150 in 1997, still use it to this day. i guess I've spent 200 nights in it at temps down to -12 deg cel. no fire needed.
I've got The North Face Inferno -29C. In combination with Thermarest XTherm. It allows sleeping under the sky at -20C in your underpants only. And it weighs around 1400 grams. I wouldn't use it in temperatures higher than -5C though-too warm. At temperatures down to -5C, I use my 0C sleeping bag with additional insulation-down socks and a down sweater.
Overall, sleeping mat is much more important than sleeping bag, tbh. With a warm sleeping bag, you can put all your clothing on you and sleep somewhat okay at much below sleeping bag comfort level. But with a cold sleeping mat, additional clothing doesn't help much.
I find your gear videos far too interesting 😆.
I have a US poncho liner and a UK jungle sleeping bag for my summer options (or some wool blankets), but I think my sumer experiences have been a bit warmer!
I got stuck nearly 20 years ago trying to work out what would be a good option for a 4 season bag. I went for a Ray Mears Golden Eagle - I figured Ray wouldn't steer you wrong😁. They were made by Nanok at the time. 20 years later that thing is still great. I ended up with a Nanok insulated coat/trousers/boots as a liner, but I've only used them with the summer grear - I've never been anywhere cold enough to use them inside the big bag.
I'd be interested to hear what you think about sleeping mats. I use a foil/foam mat under an air mat when it's cold.
Nice video as always 👍👍
I have too make something about sleeping pads… You are one of several persons who had written this!!!
🤣
I think you are totally right. I have to plan a new video!!!
/Matti
Hi, like you I use the waffle foam mat on the bottom. To prevent a puncture.
Some other YT channel, did a thermal test. They concluded, that the foil/foam mat on top of the air mattress, is warmer.
@@billpetersen298 Interesting. I figured it might be warmer that way, but I don't think I've really been in conditions cold enough to make me notice - the 4 season bag is plenty warm enough.
@@russ1046 Hi Russ, I'm on the wet coast of Canada. With all kinds of conditions here, summers are great, winter in the mountains cold but dry. In the coastal rainforest, wet, not bad, wet, and deadly cold wet. My British army bag, is my favourite, even though it isn't warm enough on it's own. For when it matters.
I need to upgrade, and have had damp down bags, scare me. So I'll take a look at your Nanok bag.
A down sleeping without vapour barrier liner does not work on a multi-day deep winter trip. The moisture build up, combined with packing and unpacking the sleeping bag, will make the down loosing its insulation. Very dangerous! Why don't you mention this?
Thank you, that’s what I was thinking about.
Having experienced a damp down bag, after a few days of fog and rain.
@@billpetersen298 In really low temperatures this gets much, much worse, to the point that it gets seriously dangerous. People have died from it.
For a second there at the start of the vid i thought he was going to make like a Tauntaun with the dogs...
I asked BPS knives if they could make knives from Russian tanks. The owner told me that steel tanks is not a good compound for making knives.