Hi! Potari here. Thank you for covering the topic thoroughly. I'd like to reiterate that please do not send hate to anyone! I hope that everyone involved learned something from this and we can all move on
ur design is super cute, the cup-full version of this is that it was so cute people wanted to use/steal it 😸 i wish u nothing but positivity for ur future designs/works and im sorry people had sour attitudes towards u over something like this when it was their mistake
next time water mark your stuff and put better copyright tos but either way it will be in pintrest where people can use it so this video shouldnt even exist its just putting more oil on the fire, but least you got your time of fame right, so least now you cant say your outfit didnt put you on the map now right
@@morbid.porcelainwell she did had a pretty clear tos stating in her tweet it's only for personal use on the tweet but i think i can agree that the tos can be placed in the image so those re posters on pinterest that doesn't give credit or doesn't put the tos
VRchat artist here! this issue is so disgustingly common in the vr space. idk why people think that they can just steal clothing designs left and right.
Hey I think you should maybe look into the response/explanation cringey had to this. I can understand a bit as people get ideas from other things all the time. Its called insporation. As well as when it comes to vrchat its kind of just recreating in a way but for that purpose. Regardless A lot of people just dont mind much unless theres terms
@@katneko9705 so thereseven a rule to have it as personal use/dont copy or trace. Inspiration is not copying and selling a design that someone said to NOT USE IT FOR HOW CRINGY IS. yeah its shitty. It happens a lot in vrchat people cant come up with their own designs so they steal designs they seen online. Also most vrchat outfit creators kit bash for models. So... the "tweak" was someone elses thigh highs...
@@katneko9705 Inspiration does not mean completely recreating something with only minor changes and 0 credit, especially when it comes to selling commercial licenses for something. If you want to recreate something for VR chat that is very heavily based on another artists work, at the very least you should have it be for free or only use it yourself personally.
honestly, the idea of 'did you invent ___ or ___ or _____' kind of logic would literally mean everyone's OCs and logos and designs would literally be nobodies, because you could literally outright steal it and then claim 'you didn't invent pink hair or magical girl or gods!!' and get away with it. They clearly had the intention of taking the outfit design, but then claiming 'added extra details' (in which, are quite literally just shading and lighting to make 3d model look realer) just to justify literally ripping an outfit from someone else and then attempting to make money off of it. The water in their household must be poisoned..
UGH IT MAKES ME SO MAD. Everyone that uses that argument doesn’t even know how any of it actually works!!! If only the inventor of X thing can claim copyright/ownership over it then riddle me this! How come every person that’s designed a new type of fountain pen has a patent for it? They’re just pens! Since they’re all so derivative of the original product for being fountain pens, then none of the people who have made these different designs should have the right to sue knock-off companies for making copies of their fountain pen designs! Like, the MOMENT you apply the same logic they have for art to literally anything else, the logic falls apart like wet tissue paper. Just because you didn’t invent it doesn’t mean it’s not a property that you own and can protect. I don’t own the concept of gay people, but I own the gay people I draw and will knock you into next Tuesday if you steal my shit
quite literally. It's so annoying to hear anyone who uses the argument grasp onto straws to justify their shitty actions. No one truly invents anything, but the individual design of it is, infact, theirs.
this would literally mean no design in terms of clothes made by fashion designers would ever be original, as the invention of skirts, shorts, sweaters, pants, go back to the most ancient of times. gucci and versace, chanel, vienne westwood, gotta pay up to the inventers of long coats and dresses and bags i guess 😅
The same way how you can't copyright the concept of a dress, shirt or sweater but you definitely can with a design. It's one thing finding an outfit you find cute online but reusing it, selling it commercially and telling the creator to pound sand's just blatant theft imo. What they're doing is like blatantly plagiarizing a book and saying the original owner doesn't own the alphabet lol
Just to be clear In 1988 an artist named Jeff Koons opened his new exhibition named "Banality," in which he showed a series of wooden and porcelain sculptures based off of characters or photos he did not own the rights too This led to five lawsuits, one of which being by Art Rogers--who had taken a photo of a couple holding eight dogs. This was turned into a 3d sculpture by Koons, and Koons believed his work was transformative It was not. Art Rogers won the lawsuit--and to be extra clear, Koons changed the colors of the figures in the photo for his sculpture, making it more transformative than this persons 3d model. So, for all their jargon, they are wrong. Copyright protects 2d artists even when their work is being infringed by a 3d artist Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong, and note that this is a very simplified version of the situation
No matter how many times people get called out for stealing and tracing art, they will keep doing it and it makes me sick, how can one do that and leech off of artist hard work
stealing is INCREDIBLY common on vrchat. i had to deal with it before, it sucks that it's so normalized in this space that's supposed to be for creators.
@@katneko9705 It is, pinterest is literaly a website where anyone can use any image and then post it without giving credits whatsoever (i know what im talking about i've used the app for 4 years) if you're smart you know this isn't a trustable source to "get" designs from. All you see can literally belong to anybody.
What's wild to me is that Cringelord is arguing that Potari didn't invent shirts and therefore they can't copyright the design, AND YET REQUIRES A LICENSE AGREEMENT TO USE THE MODEL THEY CREATED BASED ON A STOLEN DESIGN. Also, Cringelord VASTLY misunderstands copyright. In the US, copyright is an automatic right that does not require registration with the Copyright Office. Registering a work for copyright really just makes it public record that you created it and the Copyright Office can provide remediation if there's ever an issue with copyright infringement without going to federal court.
This person sure feels entitled to take designs. Probably because they can't design themselves. With that kind of attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't fully make the 3d assets either.
The VRChat sphere already gets a lot of hate as is, so I just wanted to pop in and say; of course not all of us are like that! ): Unfortunately there is a lot of uneducated people in our space, but we try our best to spread knowledge about what's right and wrong amongst each other and hope to grow as a whole
They're the classic thief that refuses to admit they stole until there's legal action and have to take it down, but will still "omit" that they stole and leave it vague as to why it's gone. They don't care, they know exactly what they're doing. I don't understand it at all though, if you're going to do something like this how hard is it to just find multiple references? Snagging design aspects from multiple references would transform it enough to not be "exact". Granted one should still put your own creativity into it and all, but still sob
Dude, when the arguing of inventing wool started I would have flipped the table. Like don’t act stupid, you know exactly that you’re in the wrong which is why you try to hide behind “big” words. 🙄😒
My boyfriend exposed them on instagram a while ago with proof of them stealing other people's models from other websites or games, even some models that aika created were created with on a AI website for 3d models. And both of them started accusing him of being a pedophile just to diffamate and get people to support them. Funny enough my boyfriend proved as well that he wasn't a pedophile by sharing a picture of my ID proving that I was even over 25. They both had a mental breakdown and started victimizing them selves trying to get people empathize with them. But most of the people have seen that they both were liars and very bad people.
@@minkiesbink My boyfriend exposed them on instagram a while ago with proof of them stealing other people's models from other websites or games, even some models that aika created were created with on a AI website for 3d models. And both of them started accusing him of being a pedophile just to diffamate and get people to support them. Funny enough my boyfriend proved as well that he wasn't a p3d0phil3 by sharing a picture of my ID proving that I was even over 25. They both had a mental breakdown and started victimizing them selves trying to get people empathize with them. But most of the people have seen that they both were liars and very bad people.
Thieves like this Always do the "Can you prove it ?" crap and the "you don't own sweaters or WOOL" crap, talk about STRAIGHT villain talk you KNOW they STOLE it and have NO real excuses, also if you did that to Gucci, Coach, Calvin Klein, THEY WOULD SUE YOU HARD!!!
As a 3D artist that love what I do and learning how I can do more of it: Cringey need to learn ethics. I never in a million years would think to grab a design I haven't made myself and just make it without permission then sell it. I would 100% either ask to make it and/or negotiate with the creator or make it and give it to the creator as a gift for practice.
As a VRChat creator who has been in the space for well over 5 years. It's genuinely sad to see a fellow creator within our community do so much harm and damage to people. And to see others try to justify and defend this is also very disappointing. We already get such a bad rep for events like these that highlight the worst parts of our community. I promise not all of us do this or would make profit off other peoples designs and hard work. Not all of us talk like that or would ever treat anyone like that. We have SO many genuine and very talented creators who do advocate for artists and supporting artist as much as possible. Just sucks that cases like these that continue to repeat don't help repair our relationship with other art communities as most only know us for is stealing, ripping, or making profit off designs. To those who're saying the situation has been resolved, that doesn't mean the damage can just be undone. Even if the products aren't up anymore, profit was still made off someone else's work and when Potari reached out she was treated horribly. For those criticizing Potari for simply confronting someone who made money off her design she did not give permission or commercial rights to are also not understanding why it's so bad and why these things need to be called out. We have a responsibilty to hold each other accountable and to support one another.
While I agree with you on a lot of this, the issue being resolved had already made cringey be held accountable. There was a whole section in her discord about it. This video here is unnecessary just causing more fuel to be put on a fire that already burnt out. The accountability had already been assigned, both creators had settled the situation. This video just causes unnecessary extra hate to be generated xx
@ Of course, I wanted to help others in the comments understand why criticizing the artist also doesn’t help. I do hope that going forward as creators, we take this as a lesson to have more compassion and empathy towards artists and their work. That just cause we see something on Pinterest doesn’t mean we should jump the gun on recreating it. I do agree that this video doesn’t really help our case much either by highlighting the worst comments on the Twitter post. There were many more messages left there that showed support and reassured others that not VRChat creators do this.
Lol, an area that Im VERY familiar with. As a person who uses VRchat, and has been 3d modeling for 16years years, i have made one to one copies of outfits and parts- for personal use. When it comes to generic parts like lets say, a virginkiller sweater, you are 100% going to look at references. But, to play dumb, like you didnt take someones original idea one to one? Its just disrespectful. Ive tagged artists that inspired my 3d models. Some loved seeing their work in 3d, others told me they didnt want it used by others(I wasnt going to sell it anyways but i understand the worry). If they DID want to sell it, thats when you put your creative spin on it. Just like every other artist out there, you take ideas from many different things and combine them. I do think 3d artists start to feel its transformative enough going from 2d to 3d. For a while I stopped feeling like an artist because all my requests were just "recreate this". I hope they take this as a learning experience and grow from it.
It's the fact Potari even had a credit on it so how would they now know it was Potari. If they were using it as a reference of anything would have looked at it multiple times and somehow not see the "@Potari"? It feels like they just didn't want to take the model down or being negligent. It just doesn't add up. I saw the draw your oc in this on Pinterest too and instantly saw the @Potari so I don't get how they didn't especially if they used the outfit for their 3d model.
As someone who works in the legal and IP department of a big company, well, Cringelord's arguments re: copyrights are very misleading, made worse because they almost sound like they know what they are talking about When it comes to fashion/ accessories, nobody can trademark a common object such as "sweater" or "bow", let alone common materials like "wool" that have existed for thousands of years, you trademark original, unique designs, names, etc. Here you are completely right when you state that it's the combination of lines, shapes, colors, etc. that make the design unique and thus automatically qualifies it as an original work Now, as a fairly big company, we will voluntarily register those designs, names, etc. but as per the Berne Convention - which essentially sets the legal principles for most countries in the world when it comes to the protection of original works - protection of an original work begins automatically from the moment it is recorded (by being written, designed, etc.) on a medium. The Convention determines that protection of an original work is at least 50 years but countries are free to extend those protections, which is most countries do Moreover, Cringelord claims that they have changed the outfit enough (by making it 3D and adding to it) for it to qualify as its own work. That's a bit more tricky because at which point a derivative work automatically qualifies as a separate work really depends on the legislation of each country, and even then, sometimes you only really find out once you are in court....still, I feel confident the very limited number of design changes and the simple fact of porting the design to 3D are *not* enough to have it qualify as a separate work in most, if not all, countries tbh
If you check the comments again you'll see that a case similar to this (where a 3D artist stole a protographer's work and claimed it as their own) has already happened and the 2D artist won, so there is already some precedent for them being insanely wrong.
@@ohsarcasm I have not seen the particulars of this case or read the reasoning on which the decision was based so I really cannot comment on it. If you mention it to mean that simply changing media is by itself not enough to claim a derivative work is its own piece, then I fully agree: the reason I said it's *trickier* is because (1) it does not just argue that they changed media but also that they made changes to the design and (2) it does require examining the merits of the claim, rather than being able to just dismiss it because it's completely mirepresenting the law, as was the case with other parts of their argumentation
Heyo !! I'm also a 3D artist who works primarily on VRChat assets, situations like these happen constantly, and this amount of blatant theft occurs nearly daily in some spaces. The amount of legal jargin that was immediately thrown towards Potari means that this absolutely is NOT the first time Cringy has dealt with this sort of response from a creator. People like them likely feed off of the drama aswell. In the end they did back down and redesign the entire outfit, but please, if you're also an artist. You CAN incorporate parts of other peoples works, but this is blatant copy and paste of design elements. My number one piece of advice for artists is to find multiple designs that resonate with your taste, and combine them with your own elements so that its turned into something completely new!!! While I will say- I HAVE seen this sort out outfit plenty of times, the details of the bone aswell as ribbons and straps absolutely without a doubt resembles Potari. It would not be difficult AT ALL to change this design to be its own entity without harming the overall feel and visual language of the outfit. People will always take the easy route out ESPECIALLY if it makes them money. I've had my own models ripped and resold, redistributed and handed out, you name it. Its probably the most demoralizing and crushing feeling you can experience as a creator when you've spent so much time honing your craft and someone else is able to profit from it with a fraction of the effort it took you to do. Keep yourselves in check, there is no excuse for this level of laziness especially if you're going to be charging what- $14 for an unoptimized generic and souless 3D model of a design thats not even yours. I hope this doesn't hurt the reputation of VRChat as much as media already has. There will always be bad eggs floating around :((( Love you all, and I cant wait to see all the OC's with Potari's outfit
some Vrchat avatar/asset makers will scream their work is copyrighted and all this and that but when they steal designs off 2d artists they'll be like "Oh it's 3d so it's different I can do this" like, make it make sense? In the logic of No one can steal your avis or assets for their own use because you copyrighted it - don't steal art from other people just because the medium is different the least they could have done was contact them, asked about it - or in the VERY least credit and sell it for free. I hate how toxic the vr avatar space can be.
This is so ridiculous! It’s like they’re saying that you could copy any design by an artist from another medium and make it 3D and then they wouldn’t have the copy right ownership of the design anymore 💀 Take literally any classic design of outfit from an 2D animated series, you can’t just go ahead and remake it in 3D and then expect to not get sued. And they can’t talk about “wool” and other stuff because it’s not even real fabric, but a 3D mesh?? The same way an artist may draw wool but it’s 2D. 🤦
Can we just delete pinterest from existence? Jeezus. The amount of idiots who go there to just yoink people's stuff and go "WeLl It WaS oN pInTeReSt" excuse is driving me insane. STOP.
What works me up is that it isn't even that hard to go to the original creator and ASK PERMISSION. It's really not? They might say no, they might say yes. Respect is key. But asking isn't hard. It does not harm you. DO NOT BE AFRAID
vrchat creator here we have very notable people even doing this to secondlife ppl i can name a few but dont wanna get into it and we very much use pinterest but only reference and and most of us never go inspo by inspo and i didnt know this happened, also our community uses rumor alot so ppl r gonna send hate regardless of "i dont want ppl to send hate" but this is very disappointing and we are not all like this BUT MANY ARE KNOWN for throwing "you copied/stole from me" when alot never did or got the same ideas and to where some like this "allegedly did"
This type of stuff actually happens very common! I saw an avatar i absolutely adored. However there was an art of them from another artist not credited in anyway. I found out that the avatar artist stole the whole design and now Im just conflicted. :( I didnt buy the avatar. This whole ordeal happened to me several times from popular avatar creators.
Can you please provide more context?, I mean, many countries have different ways to copyright works or trademark process. Mexican Laws (that I know perfectly) you need to do a research for similar works and if is original then you can copyright it for a period of time. Don't know in depth American laws but lately I see in the case of Artist VS AI where the court asked Karla Ortiz and Kelly McKernan to "properly register in the Copyright Office the work of they were using for the case of copyrifght infrigment". Don't know if is an unknow rule that "if I upload it first on Internet is already copyright or is automatic" or how that "protection" works...
Im a vrc artist and the creator community is littered with people like this but the majority of us dislike this behavior, its disrespectful and shameful for the rest of us. The problem (imo) is the market has become more money driven than actual passion and creativity and it leads to situations like this. :(
imagine someone stealing a human character design and using the excuse "you don't own humans" cause this is what this guy is doing when he says "you trying to copyright wool"
just an advice I got from my teacher (I am a fashion design student) upload your design on one drive or google drive which will hold the date of design and original file and you can sue them.
Thé amount of gaslighting from the person who copied is crazy, and they dare deny the fact that potari specify that it was for personal us written black on white, I would’ve lost my mind
This sucks because now a lot of artists are gonna stop doing outfit designs for the community to do 💔💔 I know how they feel cause it happened to me once on vrchat with my old design I had and the VR creator literally expelled to me they kit bashed and changed textures so its not my design and that no one cares because of how small of a creator I was.... it was really disheartning Also side note* MISS MA'AM Loving your friggen outfit i need that top lol
I did originally find that outfit on Pinterest! I had found it a good few months ago and was surprised when I heard drama like this spike (since I'm in the vrchat community). It really does suck when you find something on pinterest that lacks original credits that make you unaware that it wasn't supposed to be distributed in this way. (Though of course the way they acted was completely rude and unfair to the original artist.)
i just went to the thief's store and the model is still up. it's just free now instead of paid, but it's still available for download, which...kinda defeats the purpose of "taking it down"
How does someone as an artist not understand how copyright works? Stupidity is so damn infuriating istg. 😭😭 If they liked the design so much they could've just discussed to purchase the rights to use it from the og artist. Or idk, have some capacity of imagination to use it as inspiration rather than copy and paste.
I use a lot of these outfits from pintrest just to practice with. Sometimes, I mash a top with another bottom from another image. These are drawings I use to warm up and don't post. If I do post, I do give credit and find the original artist.
NOT NYAHALLOSHOP TOO ;-; been following them for a while, they are pumping out such cool design sketches all the time! The discord messages are truely gross. "don't follow the artist, they don't want their designs stolen". BRO. The disgusting "do you own sweaters?" like DUUUUUDE.
i was looking it up its down now it can sadly happen cause some people just take stuff from the internet / And i can say many Vrchat model People and Asset maker can be so toxic
I did an draw your oc in this outfit thing last month for my oc, and yes I credited potari however, strange things had happened although I posted the pic while crediting potari in a tweet, a random bot copy and pasted my tweet in a form of a reply. 😓 I felt bad for potari going through something like this. That bum copied potari’s work,plain and simple. Even if it look 3D, it looks similar to potari’s work. I hope people are aware of this.
As someone in the VRChat space, i feel like if you want to make the clothes 3D for your own PERSONAL use on your own model that would be fine, but trying to profit off of it is where i see such a huge issue, because ITS NOT YOUR DESIGN?! if people want to make clothing like this and sell it they should be communicating with the Clothing designers in question to discuss it! not just blatantly steal it
There's been some fairly quiet contraversy around Nyahallo and Mochipan with claims of copying/imitation on both sides. I've tried to do some research myself but customers themselves don't seem to have much to say. If you're interested in their fashion styles, would you consider looking further into these claims?
Omg the thief is so annoying in the way they speak, it’s so condescending tbh it reminds me of the way people try to speak quickly in debates to try to get you to mess up even though they’re very clearly in the wrong
Pffft cringey chose their name perfectly, the whole thing they do is so cringey. It's so sad they seem to actually be able to do 3D modeling and they have NO original idea, all they can do is steal from others with a brain. 😔
One reason why they don't credit is that Pinterest has in build feature which takes you the source with one click of the image if it's saved into it from there. I think it was supposed to be one of Pinterest's original functional ideas that save up images that they like but kind of a without that original image really is downloaded there which also is an option. Oh, they are trying to avoid taking responsibility. Chances of that two people create ideantical piece of fabric and you can clearly see how sketch excisted before 3D. It looks likes 2D was turned into 3D. I just have to throw in a through that cannot these people collab so that it would be win-win for them both and share profits instead of stealing? -also to me it is plain as day if some artwork is signed, yep, it belongs to someone and has default copyright. Some people haven't ever heard about copyright apparently. Also if seen cute outfit drawings online... people should really know better by now to get inspired by them and create something unique about them instead of copying them. =..=
This creator should know as an artist it isn’t okay. Being an artist is having creativity. If you’re having a block, THERES A WHOLE INTERNET YOU CAN USE FOR REFERENCES. This 3D artist is just lazy.
The gaslighting is genuinely a bit triggering... the way cringelord just makes shit up on the fly and talks down to them to try and intimidate them into believing the absolute bullshit they are talking. Wow.
I feel like if you wanna like use someone’s design you should be contacting them and either paying them a reasonable amount to recreate their design as a vrchat asset or outright giving them a % of the profits from that sale. Like there is so much they could’ve done to add to that even or just alter the design. Like there’s a way to have inspo even from dtiys while not directly copying I think the most heinous part is the dog tag coulda been anything like a slaigh bell they could’ve added more ribbons across it they could’ve done a different sort of garterbelt a different style of panties. I get they put work into this but they can’t claim that they added 400% unless they added some absolutely crazy shit to the back like an entire carriage of elves on her ass that are fully animated and have a full conversation.
Pinterest is not a place for art assets!! Keep repeating this over and over. Artists do not have to register for copyright!! We automatically OWN it!! An artist made a 3d sculpture ( real one) of a painting ( real one) and they got sued for copyright and the copyright was upheld!!!!. 2d /3d dies not matter
Hi! Potari here. Thank you for covering the topic thoroughly. I'd like to reiterate that please do not send hate to anyone! I hope that everyone involved learned something from this and we can all move on
ur design is super cute, the cup-full version of this is that it was so cute people wanted to use/steal it 😸 i wish u nothing but positivity for ur future designs/works and im sorry people had sour attitudes towards u over something like this when it was their mistake
next time water mark your stuff and put better copyright tos but either way it will be in pintrest where people can use it so this video shouldnt even exist its just putting more oil on the fire, but least you got your time of fame right, so least now you cant say your outfit didnt put you on the map now right
It's really heartbreaking to see your art taken without even a lil remorse. Keep doing your amazing art
@@morbid.porcelainwell she did had a pretty clear tos stating in her tweet it's only for personal use on the tweet but i think i can agree that the tos can be placed in the image so those re posters on pinterest that doesn't give credit or doesn't put the tos
your art is really cute and i'm so sorry that happened to you!
bro fully copy it and was like "u dont own whool "
Where did the h come from
Wool*
@@Jessica18010is that really the true problem here???
no but... it is funny @@neoworldlee
VRchat artist here! this issue is so disgustingly common in the vr space. idk why people think that they can just steal clothing designs left and right.
Hey I think you should maybe look into the response/explanation cringey had to this. I can understand a bit as people get ideas from other things all the time. Its called insporation. As well as when it comes to vrchat its kind of just recreating in a way but for that purpose. Regardless A lot of people just dont mind much unless theres terms
@@katneko9705inspiration is a lot different from just copying something
@@katneko9705 inspiration isnt straight up copying lmao, plus, just because its a different medium doesnt mean its not stealing
@@katneko9705 so thereseven a rule to have it as personal use/dont copy or trace. Inspiration is not copying and selling a design that someone said to NOT USE IT FOR HOW CRINGY IS. yeah its shitty. It happens a lot in vrchat people cant come up with their own designs so they steal designs they seen online. Also most vrchat outfit creators kit bash for models. So... the "tweak" was someone elses thigh highs...
@@katneko9705 Inspiration does not mean completely recreating something with only minor changes and 0 credit, especially when it comes to selling commercial licenses for something. If you want to recreate something for VR chat that is very heavily based on another artists work, at the very least you should have it be for free or only use it yourself personally.
honestly, the idea of 'did you invent ___ or ___ or _____' kind of logic would literally mean everyone's OCs and logos and designs would literally be nobodies, because you could literally outright steal it and then claim 'you didn't invent pink hair or magical girl or gods!!' and get away with it. They clearly had the intention of taking the outfit design, but then claiming 'added extra details' (in which, are quite literally just shading and lighting to make 3d model look realer) just to justify literally ripping an outfit from someone else and then attempting to make money off of it. The water in their household must be poisoned..
this would also mean trademarks mean nothing
UGH IT MAKES ME SO MAD. Everyone that uses that argument doesn’t even know how any of it actually works!!! If only the inventor of X thing can claim copyright/ownership over it then riddle me this! How come every person that’s designed a new type of fountain pen has a patent for it? They’re just pens! Since they’re all so derivative of the original product for being fountain pens, then none of the people who have made these different designs should have the right to sue knock-off companies for making copies of their fountain pen designs! Like, the MOMENT you apply the same logic they have for art to literally anything else, the logic falls apart like wet tissue paper. Just because you didn’t invent it doesn’t mean it’s not a property that you own and can protect. I don’t own the concept of gay people, but I own the gay people I draw and will knock you into next Tuesday if you steal my shit
quite literally. It's so annoying to hear anyone who uses the argument grasp onto straws to justify their shitty actions. No one truly invents anything, but the individual design of it is, infact, theirs.
this would literally mean no design in terms of clothes made by fashion designers would ever be original, as the invention of skirts, shorts, sweaters, pants, go back to the most ancient of times. gucci and versace, chanel, vienne westwood, gotta pay up to the inventers of long coats and dresses and bags i guess 😅
The same way how you can't copyright the concept of a dress, shirt or sweater but you definitely can with a design. It's one thing finding an outfit you find cute online but reusing it, selling it commercially and telling the creator to pound sand's just blatant theft imo. What they're doing is like blatantly plagiarizing a book and saying the original owner doesn't own the alphabet lol
Just to be clear
In 1988 an artist named Jeff Koons opened his new exhibition named "Banality," in which he showed a series of wooden and porcelain sculptures based off of characters or photos he did not own the rights too
This led to five lawsuits, one of which being by Art Rogers--who had taken a photo of a couple holding eight dogs. This was turned into a 3d sculpture by Koons, and Koons believed his work was transformative
It was not.
Art Rogers won the lawsuit--and to be extra clear, Koons changed the colors of the figures in the photo for his sculpture, making it more transformative than this persons 3d model.
So, for all their jargon, they are wrong. Copyright protects 2d artists even when their work is being infringed by a 3d artist
Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong, and note that this is a very simplified version of the situation
No matter how many times people get called out for stealing and tracing art, they will keep doing it and it makes me sick, how can one do that and leech off of artist hard work
stealing is INCREDIBLY common on vrchat. i had to deal with it before, it sucks that it's so normalized in this space that's supposed to be for creators.
their user name Cringelord fits them, what their doing is cringe lord behavior 😭
The whole "i found it on Pinterest" excuse is STUPIDDDD
It's the new "I found it on google" which was also a shit excuse for stealing other people's work
Not really a bad excuse tho?
@@katneko9705just a she says in the video, people steal and post on pinterest without credits
@@katneko9705 It is, pinterest is literaly a website where anyone can use any image and then post it without giving credits whatsoever (i know what im talking about i've used the app for 4 years) if you're smart you know this isn't a trustable source to "get" designs from. All you see can literally belong to anybody.
AGREED (ALSO HELP?? I PROMISE IM NOT STALKING/SRS)
What's wild to me is that Cringelord is arguing that Potari didn't invent shirts and therefore they can't copyright the design, AND YET REQUIRES A LICENSE AGREEMENT TO USE THE MODEL THEY CREATED BASED ON A STOLEN DESIGN. Also, Cringelord VASTLY misunderstands copyright. In the US, copyright is an automatic right that does not require registration with the Copyright Office. Registering a work for copyright really just makes it public record that you created it and the Copyright Office can provide remediation if there's ever an issue with copyright infringement without going to federal court.
The way this 3d artist is talking, sounds like they're confusing copyright law with patents...
this made me so mad with how much they talked down to her. Also they are just objectively wrong.
omg... when will people learn to stop stealing 😭, the blonde hair looks great btw!!
oomfie pulled out the professional voice and thought they were right because they said fancy words
This person sure feels entitled to take designs. Probably because they can't design themselves. With that kind of attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't fully make the 3d assets either.
The VRChat sphere already gets a lot of hate as is, so I just wanted to pop in and say; of course not all of us are like that! ): Unfortunately there is a lot of uneducated people in our space, but we try our best to spread knowledge about what's right and wrong amongst each other and hope to grow as a whole
They're the classic thief that refuses to admit they stole until there's legal action and have to take it down, but will still "omit" that they stole and leave it vague as to why it's gone. They don't care, they know exactly what they're doing. I don't understand it at all though, if you're going to do something like this how hard is it to just find multiple references? Snagging design aspects from multiple references would transform it enough to not be "exact". Granted one should still put your own creativity into it and all, but still sob
Bro really said "Well u didn't have the back view I could copy so I had to think it up and so it's my original work mow" 😭 what in the delulu land
Dude, when the arguing of inventing wool started I would have flipped the table. Like don’t act stupid, you know exactly that you’re in the wrong which is why you try to hide behind “big” words. 🙄😒
In the VRC creator space, Darcy and Aika are notorious for toxicity
My boyfriend exposed them on instagram a while ago with proof of them stealing other people's models from other websites or games, even some models that aika created were created with on a AI website for 3d models. And both of them started accusing him of being a pedophile just to diffamate and get people to support them. Funny enough my boyfriend proved as well that he wasn't a pedophile by sharing a picture of my ID proving that I was even over 25. They both had a mental breakdown and started victimizing them selves trying to get people empathize with them. But most of the people have seen that they both were liars and very bad people.
This just opens a new chapter to the story.. Damn
@@minkiesbink My boyfriend exposed them on instagram a while ago with proof of them stealing other people's models from other websites or games, even some models that aika created were created with on a AI website for 3d models. And both of them started accusing him of being a pedophile just to diffamate and get people to support them. Funny enough my boyfriend proved as well that he wasn't a p3d0phil3 by sharing a picture of my ID proving that I was even over 25. They both had a mental breakdown and started victimizing them selves trying to get people empathize with them. But most of the people have seen that they both were liars and very bad people.
same and aika accused me stealing from her XD
well more like copying which is insane- cuz ifykyk
Thieves like this Always do the "Can you prove it ?" crap and the "you don't own sweaters or WOOL" crap, talk about STRAIGHT villain talk you KNOW they STOLE it and have NO real excuses, also if you did that to Gucci, Coach, Calvin Klein, THEY WOULD SUE YOU HARD!!!
As a 3D artist that love what I do and learning how I can do more of it: Cringey need to learn ethics. I never in a million years would think to grab a design I haven't made myself and just make it without permission then sell it. I would 100% either ask to make it and/or negotiate with the creator or make it and give it to the creator as a gift for practice.
As a VRChat creator who has been in the space for well over 5 years. It's genuinely sad to see a fellow creator within our community do so much harm and damage to people. And to see others try to justify and defend this is also very disappointing.
We already get such a bad rep for events like these that highlight the worst parts of our community. I promise not all of us do this or would make profit off other peoples designs and hard work. Not all of us talk like that or would ever treat anyone like that. We have SO many genuine and very talented creators who do advocate for artists and supporting artist as much as possible.
Just sucks that cases like these that continue to repeat don't help repair our relationship with other art communities as most only know us for is stealing, ripping, or making profit off designs.
To those who're saying the situation has been resolved, that doesn't mean the damage can just be undone. Even if the products aren't up anymore, profit was still made off someone else's work and when Potari reached out she was treated horribly. For those criticizing Potari for simply confronting someone who made money off her design she did not give permission or commercial rights to are also not understanding why it's so bad and why these things need to be called out. We have a responsibilty to hold each other accountable and to support one another.
While I agree with you on a lot of this, the issue being resolved had already made cringey be held accountable. There was a whole section in her discord about it. This video here is unnecessary just causing more fuel to be put on a fire that already burnt out. The accountability had already been assigned, both creators had settled the situation. This video just causes unnecessary extra hate to be generated xx
@ Of course, I wanted to help others in the comments understand why criticizing the artist also doesn’t help.
I do hope that going forward as creators, we take this as a lesson to have more compassion and empathy towards artists and their work. That just cause we see something on Pinterest doesn’t mean we should jump the gun on recreating it.
I do agree that this video doesn’t really help our case much either by highlighting the worst comments on the Twitter post. There were many more messages left there that showed support and reassured others that not VRChat creators do this.
@@aresolympusvrcI fully agree with you on this, a very well written response. Thanks for taking the time to reply :)
Omg the second artist changed like... nothing????? Wtf do they mean it's a different design
your new hair looks so pretty :0
“You don’t own wool” 😭😭 that’s like copying someone’s book to a T then saying “you don’t own words” when confronted
This is the exact reason why some VRC creators say "Irl references only!"
Lol, an area that Im VERY familiar with. As a person who uses VRchat, and has been 3d modeling for 16years years, i have made one to one copies of outfits and parts- for personal use. When it comes to generic parts like lets say, a virginkiller sweater, you are 100% going to look at references. But, to play dumb, like you didnt take someones original idea one to one? Its just disrespectful.
Ive tagged artists that inspired my 3d models. Some loved seeing their work in 3d, others told me they didnt want it used by others(I wasnt going to sell it anyways but i understand the worry). If they DID want to sell it, thats when you put your creative spin on it. Just like every other artist out there, you take ideas from many different things and combine them. I do think 3d artists start to feel its transformative enough going from 2d to 3d. For a while I stopped feeling like an artist because all my requests were just "recreate this". I hope they take this as a learning experience and grow from it.
It's the fact Potari even had a credit on it so how would they now know it was Potari. If they were using it as a reference of anything would have looked at it multiple times and somehow not see the "@Potari"? It feels like they just didn't want to take the model down or being negligent. It just doesn't add up. I saw the draw your oc in this on Pinterest too and instantly saw the @Potari so I don't get how they didn't especially if they used the outfit for their 3d model.
''oh you didnt invent hedgehogs, or the colour blue, or the power of running fast, therefore, your character design isn't original''
As someone who works in the legal and IP department of a big company, well, Cringelord's arguments re: copyrights are very misleading, made worse because they almost sound like they know what they are talking about
When it comes to fashion/ accessories, nobody can trademark a common object such as "sweater" or "bow", let alone common materials like "wool" that have existed for thousands of years, you trademark original, unique designs, names, etc. Here you are completely right when you state that it's the combination of lines, shapes, colors, etc. that make the design unique and thus automatically qualifies it as an original work
Now, as a fairly big company, we will voluntarily register those designs, names, etc. but as per the Berne Convention - which essentially sets the legal principles for most countries in the world when it comes to the protection of original works - protection of an original work begins automatically from the moment it is recorded (by being written, designed, etc.) on a medium. The Convention determines that protection of an original work is at least 50 years but countries are free to extend those protections, which is most countries do
Moreover, Cringelord claims that they have changed the outfit enough (by making it 3D and adding to it) for it to qualify as its own work. That's a bit more tricky because at which point a derivative work automatically qualifies as a separate work really depends on the legislation of each country, and even then, sometimes you only really find out once you are in court....still, I feel confident the very limited number of design changes and the simple fact of porting the design to 3D are *not* enough to have it qualify as a separate work in most, if not all, countries tbh
If you check the comments again you'll see that a case similar to this (where a 3D artist stole a protographer's work and claimed it as their own) has already happened and the 2D artist won, so there is already some precedent for them being insanely wrong.
@@ohsarcasm I have not seen the particulars of this case or read the reasoning on which the decision was based so I really cannot comment on it. If you mention it to mean that simply changing media is by itself not enough to claim a derivative work is its own piece, then I fully agree: the reason I said it's *trickier* is because (1) it does not just argue that they changed media but also that they made changes to the design and (2) it does require examining the merits of the claim, rather than being able to just dismiss it because it's completely mirepresenting the law, as was the case with other parts of their argumentation
the fact that they just straight up copied the exact design and claimed it wasnt coping because it was '3d' is insane. what logic lmao.
I saw this on my twitter feed and js went “Time to wait for Kats yt vid”😭❤️
Duuuuuude, this made me actually want to try this "draw you OC in-" thing- :o
Heyo !!
I'm also a 3D artist who works primarily on VRChat assets, situations like these happen constantly, and this amount of blatant theft occurs nearly daily in some spaces.
The amount of legal jargin that was immediately thrown towards Potari means that this absolutely is NOT the first time Cringy has dealt with this sort of response from a creator. People like them likely feed off of the drama aswell.
In the end they did back down and redesign the entire outfit, but please, if you're also an artist. You CAN incorporate parts of other peoples works, but this is blatant copy and paste of design elements. My number one piece of advice for artists is to find multiple designs that resonate with your taste, and combine them with your own elements so that its turned into something completely new!!!
While I will say- I HAVE seen this sort out outfit plenty of times, the details of the bone aswell as ribbons and straps absolutely without a doubt resembles Potari. It would not be difficult AT ALL to change this design to be its own entity without harming the overall feel and visual language of the outfit.
People will always take the easy route out ESPECIALLY if it makes them money. I've had my own models ripped and resold, redistributed and handed out, you name it. Its probably the most demoralizing and crushing feeling you can experience as a creator when you've spent so much time honing your craft and someone else is able to profit from it with a fraction of the effort it took you to do.
Keep yourselves in check, there is no excuse for this level of laziness especially if you're going to be charging what- $14 for an unoptimized generic and souless 3D model of a design thats not even yours.
I hope this doesn't hurt the reputation of VRChat as much as media already has. There will always be bad eggs floating around :(((
Love you all, and I cant wait to see all the OC's with Potari's outfit
some Vrchat avatar/asset makers will scream their work is copyrighted and all this and that but when they steal designs off 2d artists they'll be like "Oh it's 3d so it's different I can do this"
like, make it make sense? In the logic of No one can steal your avis or assets for their own use because you copyrighted it - don't steal art from other people just because the medium is different the least they could have done was contact them, asked about it - or in the VERY least credit and sell it for free. I hate how toxic the vr avatar space can be.
This is so ridiculous! It’s like they’re saying that you could copy any design by an artist from another medium and make it 3D and then they wouldn’t have the copy right ownership of the design anymore 💀
Take literally any classic design of outfit from an 2D animated series, you can’t just go ahead and remake it in 3D and then expect to not get sued.
And they can’t talk about “wool” and other stuff because it’s not even real fabric, but a 3D mesh?? The same way an artist may draw wool but it’s 2D. 🤦
I never thought I’d see vrchat drama here lmfao, I used to be a creator for 3+ years with Darcy, aka, cupckake etc etc… this is crazy 😭😭
Can we just delete pinterest from existence? Jeezus. The amount of idiots who go there to just yoink people's stuff and go "WeLl It WaS oN pInTeReSt" excuse is driving me insane. STOP.
What works me up is that it isn't even that hard to go to the original creator and ASK PERMISSION. It's really not? They might say no, they might say yes. Respect is key. But asking isn't hard. It does not harm you. DO NOT BE AFRAID
Damn I saw dat piece on Pinterest with no link to the owner. Zhit people got to be careful these days.
vrchat creator here we have very notable people even doing this to secondlife ppl i can name a few but dont wanna get into it and we very much use pinterest but only reference and and most of us never go inspo by inspo and i didnt know this happened, also our community uses rumor alot so ppl r gonna send hate regardless of "i dont want ppl to send hate" but this is very disappointing and we are not all like this BUT MANY ARE KNOWN for throwing "you copied/stole from me" when alot never did or got the same ideas and to where some like this "allegedly did"
i say alledeg because i believe this issue is resolved.
I didn't expect that blond omg, Kat girl you ate sm 💗
This type of stuff actually happens very common! I saw an avatar i absolutely adored. However there was an art of them from another artist not credited in anyway. I found out that the avatar artist stole the whole design and now Im just conflicted. :( I didnt buy the avatar. This whole ordeal happened to me several times from popular avatar creators.
Screaming internally because they keep telling the original artist to “apply for copyright” IT IS AUTOMATIC.
Can you please provide more context?, I mean, many countries have different ways to copyright works or trademark process. Mexican Laws (that I know perfectly) you need to do a research for similar works and if is original then you can copyright it for a period of time. Don't know in depth American laws but lately I see in the case of Artist VS AI where the court asked Karla Ortiz and Kelly McKernan to "properly register in the Copyright Office the work of they were using for the case of copyrifght infrigment".
Don't know if is an unknow rule that "if I upload it first on Internet is already copyright or is automatic" or how that "protection" works...
Im a vrc artist and the creator community is littered with people like this but the majority of us dislike this behavior, its disrespectful and shameful for the rest of us.
The problem (imo) is the market has become more money driven than actual passion and creativity and it leads to situations like this. :(
You changed your hair!
NO WAAYYYYY THIS SPECIFIC CREATOR DID THAT OMG?? its so so sooo common in the vrchat creator community to do this with other people's creations :(
Dealing with people like this is so infuriating
imagine someone stealing a human character design and using the excuse "you don't own humans" cause this is what this guy is doing when he says "you trying to copyright wool"
This is so sad! I’ve bought from this seller so many times and had no ideas!!!
thing is that to find real life references is hard AI has taken over
This is very unprofessional it should have been between them not to be brought to public
Kat your new hair looks so pretty OML!?🫶🏽
just an advice I got from my teacher (I am a fashion design student) upload your design on one drive or google drive which will hold the date of design and original file and you can sue them.
Thé amount of gaslighting from the person who copied is crazy, and they dare deny the fact that potari specify that it was for personal us written black on white, I would’ve lost my mind
This sucks because now a lot of artists are gonna stop doing outfit designs for the community to do 💔💔 I know how they feel cause it happened to me once on vrchat with my old design I had and the VR creator literally expelled to me they kit bashed and changed textures so its not my design and that no one cares because of how small of a creator I was.... it was really disheartning
Also side note* MISS MA'AM Loving your friggen outfit i need that top lol
I think it would be nice to summarize their messages, the constant speech and speed got my heart rate up ngl
i didnt know this asset creator did this , i just bought from her shop.. not that fit though.. how scummy .. another server i need to leave now
lol when you talked about turning sonic to red and claiming it as yours it reminded me of Chris Chan and Sonichu C":
oh shit... awkward when you know these people....
you look rlly cool in blonde! :0
I did originally find that outfit on Pinterest! I had found it a good few months ago and was surprised when I heard drama like this spike (since I'm in the vrchat community). It really does suck when you find something on pinterest that lacks original credits that make you unaware that it wasn't supposed to be distributed in this way. (Though of course the way they acted was completely rude and unfair to the original artist.)
Well not the only Asset taken. This is sadly.... how many ppl in vrc work.
I have to keep pausing cuz the snarkyness of the thief makes my blood boil lol
I love ur new hair omg
This guy is the perfect employee for Shein, Temu, etc...
i just went to the thief's store and the model is still up. it's just free now instead of paid, but it's still available for download, which...kinda defeats the purpose of "taking it down"
How does someone as an artist not understand how copyright works? Stupidity is so damn infuriating istg. 😭😭
If they liked the design so much they could've just discussed to purchase the rights to use it from the og artist. Or idk, have some capacity of imagination to use it as inspiration rather than copy and paste.
I use a lot of these outfits from pintrest just to practice with. Sometimes, I mash a top with another bottom from another image. These are drawings I use to warm up and don't post. If I do post, I do give credit and find the original artist.
💀 We ain't ever beating the allegations.
I use to be an Artist myself these are one of the reasons I'm scared to pursue my career people stealing my credit and making profit off it
Their face and skin is thicker than the surface of the whole earth what the actual heck
NOT NYAHALLOSHOP TOO ;-; been following them for a while, they are pumping out such cool design sketches all the time!
The discord messages are truely gross. "don't follow the artist, they don't want their designs stolen". BRO.
The disgusting "do you own sweaters?" like DUUUUUDE.
They're being obtuse, and also their name is cringelord...
I love your videos on here , and also your work on esty!!
i was looking it up its down now it can sadly happen cause some people just take stuff from the internet / And i can say many Vrchat model People and Asset maker can be so toxic
I did an draw your oc in this outfit thing last month for my oc, and yes I credited potari however, strange things had happened although I posted the pic while crediting potari in a tweet, a random bot copy and pasted my tweet in a form of a reply. 😓 I felt bad for potari going through something like this. That bum copied potari’s work,plain and simple. Even if it look 3D, it looks similar to potari’s work. I hope people are aware of this.
this person is so infuriating, i hope they become infamous and never gets work again in the future
DISGUSTINGG!!! Get this modeler outta here
As someone in the VRChat space, i feel like if you want to make the clothes 3D for your own PERSONAL use on your own model that would be fine, but trying to profit off of it is where i see such a huge issue, because ITS NOT YOUR DESIGN?! if people want to make clothing like this and sell it they should be communicating with the Clothing designers in question to discuss it! not just blatantly steal it
can i ask why there is a bone.. For a reindeer? Like that logic in itself confuses me
There's been some fairly quiet contraversy around Nyahallo and Mochipan with claims of copying/imitation on both sides. I've tried to do some research myself but customers themselves don't seem to have much to say. If you're interested in their fashion styles, would you consider looking further into these claims?
Omg the thief is so annoying in the way they speak, it’s so condescending tbh it reminds me of the way people try to speak quickly in debates to try to get you to mess up even though they’re very clearly in the wrong
I hate the argument that because you found something on Pinterest, it's now free to use without the artist's consent.
Your hair color looks super good!
Pffft cringey chose their name perfectly, the whole thing they do is so cringey. It's so sad they seem to actually be able to do 3D modeling and they have NO original idea, all they can do is steal from others with a brain. 😔
omg u look so prettyyyy!!
OOoohh your hair looks so cute!
Are they saying they didn't invent clothings thus they do not own anything like bruh?
pintrest is a refrence board not a diagram board YAWN !!!
the audacity............
One reason why they don't credit is that Pinterest has in build feature which takes you the source with one click of the image if it's saved into it from there. I think it was supposed to be one of Pinterest's original functional ideas that save up images that they like but kind of a without that original image really is downloaded there which also is an option.
Oh, they are trying to avoid taking responsibility. Chances of that two people create ideantical piece of fabric and you can clearly see how sketch excisted before 3D. It looks likes 2D was turned into 3D. I just have to throw in a through that cannot these people collab so that it would be win-win for them both and share profits instead of stealing? -also to me it is plain as day if some artwork is signed, yep, it belongs to someone and has default copyright. Some people haven't ever heard about copyright apparently. Also if seen cute outfit drawings online... people should really know better by now to get inspired by them and create something unique about them instead of copying them. =..=
Love ur new hair :D
This creator should know as an artist it isn’t okay. Being an artist is having creativity. If you’re having a block, THERES A WHOLE INTERNET YOU CAN USE FOR REFERENCES. This 3D artist is just lazy.
The gaslighting is genuinely a bit triggering... the way cringelord just makes shit up on the fly and talks down to them to try and intimidate them into believing the absolute bullshit they are talking. Wow.
I feel like if you wanna like use someone’s design you should be contacting them and either paying them a reasonable amount to recreate their design as a vrchat asset or outright giving them a % of the profits from that sale. Like there is so much they could’ve done to add to that even or just alter the design. Like there’s a way to have inspo even from dtiys while not directly copying I think the most heinous part is the dog tag coulda been anything like a slaigh bell they could’ve added more ribbons across it they could’ve done a different sort of garterbelt a different style of panties. I get they put work into this but they can’t claim that they added 400% unless they added some absolutely crazy shit to the back like an entire carriage of elves on her ass that are fully animated and have a full conversation.
Pinterest is not a place for art assets!! Keep repeating this over and over. Artists do not have to register for copyright!! We automatically OWN it!! An artist made a 3d sculpture ( real one) of a painting ( real one) and they got sued for copyright and the copyright was upheld!!!!. 2d /3d dies not matter
Extended lice lol
You looks like angelic goddess with blonde hair. And your blue clothes reminds me cloudy sky🩵☁️🩵☁️
i dunno how to feel about this, because they went through the whole 3D shit, but also the had guide lines, ect
I actually want to draw 0:07 just for funs expect for the bones ig