Every time I see one of these reviews of "mid-priced" planes, I'm ever more thankful for the still in the box 1950's Stanley No. 4 that my Dad came across for buttons in a charity shop. :)
100% agree! I've had a sort of Stanley 12-404 knock-off plane, but without adjustment screws, so i had to adjust the iron with a hammer. After some UA-cam "research", I've bought a Stanley No. 4. Oh My God! That was the best 35 USD invested in my woodworking tools. It wasn't the best quality hand plane - it has plastic handle and front knob and some stamped parts, but in terms of performance, it's just on another level in comparison with my old hand plane. The vintage Stanley/Record No. 4 represent the Lie Nielsen and Veritas for the beginners. They are simply the best.
My #4? I bought it new at the local hardware store about 1975. I dug it out and cleaned off a bit of surface rust and the price tag. And put it to work. It was what I suppose was called the Handyman since it did not come with box or instructions but I have it working pretty well. My first love is not that plane, it's my Millers Falls #9, I got that one on Ebay, all in with shipping? $45.00. It's so pretty.
Still in the box? So you have never used it... I dont understand what exactly you mean or thankful for in this context. other than possesing a nice object from your father
@@cpzmelbs no, not mint unopened, just whoever had it before me stored in the cardboard box it came in. It's seen plenty of use both before and during my ownership.
Long-term reviews have a different value than box-opening reviews. Thanks for the effort. Your comment at 7:40 is going into my vocabulary. I know several people like that.
A coworker of mine used to say “It’s only metal” that annoying corner on the Kunz can be rounded in seconds with a file to make it better for shooting, and speaking of shooting, the side of the iron on my Stanley cut my hand, so I took that sharp edge off, too. Much safer, more comfortable shooting now!
The issue you described with the sole of the Stanley changing and getting a shaving in only the center, this is the exact issue I have on my plane. Thank you for diagnosing that!!!!!!!
I bought a $50 CAD footprint #4. Had to flatten and prep it using your antique restore videos. Used it for 6 months and had to do that again. So I bought a $287 CAD Veritas #4 instead of going half way and still having to prep them. You deserve one Rex.
Veritas will win out against any of the planes tested in the video, far and away. I just don't think they are considered to be in the same class however. These planes are clearly a step below Veritas.
Nice to come across this review. I just bit the bullet yesterday and ordered a Kunz #4,5 and 6. I also got a Veritas pocket plane. This review gave me a little piece of mind on my impending delivery. Time to move on from my ACE Hardware planes.
I have a second Kunz Plus jack plane and I have used it for a year (first one was replaced by warranty because body broke near the frog set screw). The good: 1. Frog and body meeting surfaces are machined well 2. Adjustment mechanism works well 3. Iron good 4. Comfortable to hold and to use The bad: 1. Sole came wery crooked (both planes i had) 2. Chipbreaker crooked (both) 3. Iron crooked (only on one plane I had, but badly) The ugly: 1. It took me over 6 hours to get it working. Works well after that and no problems. 2. Frog has a ugly and visible manufacturing defect. It does not affect functioning, though.
Every time a i search a tool review and find an "unboxing video" i think that long time work Is the only way for testing. I really appreciate the serious method and the "light" approach of the video: chapeau
Rex, I really enjoy your videos. You have a great presence and delivery. Your topics are well chosen, interesting and practical. For all these reasons l am loath to point out any mistake or shortcoming. So please take this in the spirit in which it is offered. You often refer to planes of the Stanley type as "metallic". They are metal. Metallic is defined as something related to or resembling metal. And when you are demonstrating anything to do with planning, l notice that you do 90% of the work with your arms. Any of our woodworking heroes, Sellers or Cosman for instance, recommend pushing with your whole upper body. Keep up the excellent work. You are close to the top of the heap for woodworking videos.
I'm really getting into your videos Rex. The part that goes above and beyond is suggesting planes to go with each. Some might already have these planes and be looking for the 'next one up' great video. 👍👍👍
Several months ago I started looking around on youtube for ways to make better miters for my picture frames. I etch mirrors with my art work. My frames are less than perfect and in some cases not very good. Another goal was cutting my costs in anyway posable. I watched some of yours and Paul Sellers and a few others. The more I watched the more I started creating tools that didn't at the time seem to have any thing to do with my frames. I have picked up this fever of all things wood. I find myself thinking about it all the time. because of the fact I'm disabled and poor many of the things I'm working on are slow coming and have many things in different stages of build. This however makes me think in between cost getting there and this challenges me. So for the first time in along time I find myself motivated to do something. Keep doing what your doing so I can keep learning and doing what I'm doing, having fun for the first time in many years... Before now years ago I learned some basic carpentry, not woodworking. I never owned or touched a plane until the 404, I think its poorly made, but it has probably taught me more about planes than any other could have. This is one hell of journey. Thanks...
I have an old, like 70 + years old, Stanley Jack plane. It works GREAT for just about everything I need. I do have a very small plane to work on small jobs.
Having been asked by quite a few people how to " Fix a plane so it cuts". I have given up, they all want a quick onetime short class. They do not listen or understand the set up and maintenance involved. I refer them to two u tube channels yours and Paul Sellers. Between the two of you their is so much knowledge on call, who could ask for more.
A great source of fairly flat, stiff lapping plates is the scrap bin of a granite countertop place. Advantages of stone are it’s waterproof, stable, heavy and pretty flat (I don’t know how flat, though. It’s not a calibrated surface plate, after all). Damage to a stone surface makes a pit or scratch, but the material doesn’t rise above the surface, unlike metal or wood. And it’s usually free...
Yes Yes I've been wondering when this would come out forever I'm really happy today this made my day. They don't season the metal on the Stanley's so I'm not surprised it got a hollow.
I use a number 4 Stanley with replacement chipbreaker/ blade a number 6 Stanley and an ECE scrub plane. I find that the downsides of a wooden plane are less of a problem for scrub planes and the weight / surface is an advantage.
After some time watching Rex videos (and doing less thing on wood as I would like to) two things remain constant: fine tuning on the tool and maintenance. As a guy who have spent a lot of time in heavy industry (automotive), pointing out the fine setup and maintenance is equally valid with heavy equipment and hand tools. Nice work Rex!
Well said. Low cost quality tools are a good starting point. But when you start to figure out what you like and need it's good to have an idea of what you're going to upgrade to. Thanks for another awesome presentation. 👍
Wood river #4. $200.00 US at woodcraft. Based on the stanley bedrock design. Solid well made plane that is much better than any of the planes you show.
I am using Luban planes made by Qiangsheng from Ruby's store on Aliexpress. They are really good quality at a great price, better than my old stanleys.
E.C.E makes another Line, the „Primus“ which is kind of an composition of a wooden plane and the mechanics of an iron plane like the stanley. Nice tool to work with, and easy ti setup without an hammer and fiddeling around :)
Search for "reformputzhobel" (german term for adjustable plane): you'll find Ulmia excellent Planes (the sole is made of lignum vitae, the body pear wood and both cit depht and mouth width are adjustable by screw). It's s the same meccanismo of vintage danish JPBO. Most important: used ones (not Beatles) are sold for 50 euros...
Buy an old Stanley and , if necessary, upgrade the blade. For me a top quality blade in a Bailey type adjuster is the best. That cow horn plane digs into my hand so I glued some foam in place just behind the blade. I have a Qiangsheng, but I find it to heavy for prolonged use.
ECE makes both a Jack and a Smoother that look nearly identical, each has a different bedding angle to the iron and pssoible a small, only 1/2" or so difference in ength. Both great tools and I use ECE planes in my shop.
In the beginning, I've had a sort of Stanley 12-404 knock-off plane, but without adjustment screws, so i had to adjust the iron with a hammer. After some UA-cam "research", I've bought a Stanley No. 4. Oh My God! That was the best 35 USD invested in my woodworking tools. It wasn't the best quality hand plane - it has plastic handle and front knob and some stamped parts, but in terms of performance, it's just on another level in comparison with my old hand plane. The vintage Stanley/Record No. 4 represent the Lie Nielsen and Veritas for the beginners. They are simply the best (at least, the best I've tried).
Very good video Rex. There are some really good value old Stanley planes on eBay if you keep looking and I've found they don't take too much work to get them up and running again
Ha, there's a few curiosities settled about the Stanley and Kunz! As aside about the wooden foreplane, if you want adjusters and can find it, try a later production transitional, preferrably a no. 26 since it uses 2 inch wide irons, because they use the same "clockwise-more blade, counter clockwise-less blade" depth adjustment as later metallic planes and use threaded inserts to hold the frog and frame down to the wood body. Pretty much the same frog screws also as a metal Stanley after a check. You can identify them by Bailey's name casted in front of the front knob. The depth wheel is still the small one and about a mile and a half away from your finger (I can just barely get a grip on it with my middle finger), but still does a good job and is familiar after using a 1950's no. 4 for a while!
Rex, I have a vintage Stanley 4, 5, and 6 plus a Grisly I bought on your recommendation. My best experiences have been with the old Stanley 5 and 6 after adding a new Hock blade. I also added a Wood River V3 blade to the #4 and it also has had markedly better performance. This Leeds me to believe it’s all in the blade.
I have that Stanley and its developed an issue with leaving tracks from that mouth adjuster bit. I cleaned out the area and it does the same thing still. Beyond that it is a good smoother and once I get it right again its staying there.
Really enjoyed this video Rex. Getting long term reviews on products just doesn't happen much sadly, and is really valuable when evaluating a product or brand. I know there are some tech products I've bought that have had great first impression reviews, and worked great initially, but then went to crap in not too much time later. Thanks for the vid!
I bought the Stanley Sweetheart No. 4 as my second plane. And for a complete beginner it is such a pain to use. So 3 knobs and mouth adjustment, plus a cap iron. For a beginner each one of them caused problems. So cap iron does not seem to do anything to prevent tearout as advertised, it is either to close and in the way of actually cutting or not helping at all so in practice just makes setting of the plane harder. The main problem with this plane is completelly loose norris style adjuster. It is full of backlash. The blade can move a lot on its own! First it take couple of full turns of the adjuster to move blade in the oposite direction, second moving it from side to side usually mess op the whole setup because it might for instance cause the blade to release tension and it would not only change side to side, but also push the whole blade forward making bigger cut. Third it is hard to get good tension on all the screws for it to work fine, if you take it to tight the blade will not protrude untill it moves to far and then you have to take couple of full turns back and couple of full turns forward again to account for the backlash. This the whole setup can become loose and move if you hold it by blade or cap iron (i.e. when shooting or pulling the plane). Well it is not exactly indetend to be used as such, but i did not have that problem with other planes. So it took me 2 days to get resonable thing shavings... on pine... with tearout. Tearout was the reason I bought second plane in addition to 5x cheaper block plane that I had to grind to flat, but is still easier to control. So some time later I learned more about grain directions and can set the plane in resonable time, but then I will let it dull because I don't want to sharpen it and start setting it up from scratch... Eventually a Vertias Low Angle jack plane shown up in stock somewhere. I bought it, unboxed it. Sharpened it, moved few times on a stone at 25 (with a honning guide, I can hand sharpen bevel down plane as the angle or convex does not matter much there, but prefer honning guide on bevel up or hand strop if that's enough). So far no fairies. Ok, so I put the blande in, adjusted the grab screws, took a piece of pine, turned the weel. What?! It works, it just works. Ok it gives me tear out in places but I expected that on this part. But it just works, I did not spent a minute trying to set it up to cut well and I even have grab screws slightly off, but it just bloody cuts? Just like that? Like on some fancy youtube channel? Why did I wasted my life on the stanley? A wait, high angle plance, so I can smooth it up with less tearout. So tried that got annoyed at the adjuster again, ordered a next blade for the low angle jack. Ok, so new blade 25 to start, let's put 45 on it for total of 57... but maybe let's try 35 first? it should be almost the same as stanley then. Ok done 47 in total, put the blade in, did I mention the settings stays between resharpening of the same blade? Ok, pine where are you, one move, WHAT KIND OF SORCERY IS THAT?! Luster! through the knots and changing grain. Where is my elm, oh waith walnut, oak, maple, iroko. So this is how it feels? This is how it is supposed to work? *****. Maybe I would actually build something now instead of buying more wood types and tools. Bench would be nice. So why did I wasted my life on stanley again? I guess it is gona be a scrub plane know, but is somewhat heavy for that I use and 6x cheaper "japanese" plane I have is not bad for that (because is cheap and not yet well set). Surelly stanley can be setup, even I almost get it now and can get fine shavings, but it is just not fun. Now I guess not everyone should spend money on one plane in price of 5 (a collection of cheap japanese planes or few cheap brands) or 2 resonable ones and have them setup differently for different tasks. But if someone is here for fun and don't have tone of time I can not stress how much easier it is to start with the Vertias low angle jack plane with couple of blades. If I would to start now I would only bought that one with blade sharpened to 35 degrees and when sharp it is enough for me at the moment. Then add lower / higher when needed.
Don't know about America but here in Germany the iron planes are sooo expensive if you want them used. Of course new ones are even more expensive ;) I bought a wooden ECE, which was only about a year old, for about 40$. THIS is the ultimate starting plane because you still have money left to also buy a used wooden scrup and a jounter plane :) For 100 bucks I got everything I need for the next years. And setting them is just some practice (and to be honest, as a free-time woodworker some seconds more fiddling is not so important).
Quote of the day: "Overall, this (plane) is like a lot of people I know. I respect it, but I don't like it very much." I too recommend subscribing to Rex and contributing on Patreon. It's likely less than you spend on "coffee" every day. Excellent summary Rex, keep up the great videos.
I like the reviews, but I still think the best hand planes to buy are vintage Stanleys. When I started, I bought a new, cheapish Bench Dog #4 for $150. The tool is now my scrub. Later that year, I bought a type 19 Stanley no 5 jack on ebay for like $120 after shipping. That tool is lightyears better than that $150 bench dog. Comfortable in the hands, cut well, the iron holds an edge. Sure, I had to hunt for a plane in good shape and a good deal, but the effort was well worth it. Around december, I got tired of using the bench dog for finishing work and went on the hunt for a vintage Stanley #4 on ebay. Found a type 19 in good shape for $85 after shipping, and I absolutely love that plane. Vintage tools are the way to go for hand tools.
I've been looking to try out a handplane. This was just the review I was looking for. I like the idea of the out of the box working condition of the Stanley No. 4. I will probably give this one a go.
I like the video, it was entertaining and contained a lot of... passive information. As in giving a deeper understanding of different plane aspects thats relevent with or without any interest of the specific planes, thanks for that. It did feel a little weird though, that you didnt even touch the subject of a vintage no.4 in this context. I might have missed something , and can think of a number of reasonable reasons why. I just wanted to share the feedback. Thanks for your work, always a pleasure to watch!
A2 steel's primary benefit is that it's easier to heat treat without warping. I'm rather skeptical that you'll get much difference in the edge when compared with W1 or O1. One thing I'd love to see is a side-by-side comparison of Stanley's current production #4 planes. That Sweetheart model is rather different from the other three models Isee at Amazon, which range in price from $24 to $74.
I bought a Taurus (Aldi) band saw in 2006 now 2021. It worked great until I needed new pulley tires. Aldi now get their band saws from another manufacture. They don’t have tires for this 2006 Taurus band saw. Their current “Taurus” band saw is different! If I can not find the ties elsewhere I will have to replace it with a more quality manufacturer, Ryobi, Skill, Richardson what ever. As always, cheap ALWAYS works out dear!
I think your evaluation of these planes is pretty much spot on. I have the same number four sweetheart and filed down the front of the handle but it still not quite right in the hand and adjusting and weight does makes it a clunker. However it is good at shooting and will smooth very well when the vintage number four is dull or needs small mouth. As far as videos go I think you got three or four in total from this series. Still think you are better off in long run with vintage four and five if you can swing it, that and low angle block plane and you are set. Oh yea, thanks for heads up on Spear and Jackson saw, got one per your recommendation, cleaned plate with acetone, set kerf at 33 thou. and ran over with file twice to relax rake a bit, saws great, impressed. Front of saw did P.S. set., only thing is I have to squeeze little finger to lift saw to start, then works great. Little better at cross cut than rip but still great saw, I even cut some dove tails just for S and Gs and was doable. Thanks for such informative videos.
Rex, after watching a variety of different UA-cam tools reviews over the years, I have to say that you do the best job of anybody I have seen. After seeing someone take a no 4 out of a box, take it apart, and bitch and moan about it's deficiencies; sharpen the iron and test it; then proceed to tell viewers how bad it was; I was left wondering if he had put some more effort into tuning it up, what the result would have been. Personally, I prefer wooden plane, of which I have a variety, as well as a few older Stanleys, No 4's, a 5, and a 6. I have some Stanley combination planes too, including the longest Jointer plane I've ever seen (36 inches). Anyway, keep up the good work. I send people to your channel now when they ask me questions about hand tool setup all the time. I help them when I can, but I don't always have the time available myself. Yo will be seeing me on your Patreon soon, after I'm done with my taxes.
As for ergonomics of stanley sw, i think it's more of a personal preference. Handle and overall hand positioning fits perfectly in my hand. I'm not an alien, so it might fit other people too :) The biggest shortcomming is that you can forget to lock that mouth adjustment screw or it may come loose unintentionally... and if you're lucky like i am, adjustable part will hit the iron and leave a chip in a2 steel. Anyway, this is a good go-to plane. Not expensive enough to be afraid to use it and good enough get the job done.
Great video Rex! I had exactly the same experience with the Kunz plus no.4 just a couple of weeks back. It was bowed along it's length with a hollow starting before the blade and it was actually convex cross it's width. It looks like yours is the same based on the wear pattern when you sanded it, the back end looks to flatten in the middle first with pen still on the edges. Whilst it is beautifully engineered, at this price point i expected more and lacked confidence in it so unfortunately it's been returned. Shame as I really liked it otherwise.
I have had a Woodriver # 5 1/2 for about 275 US $ (all taxes included) for several months now. It is a very good plane of good quality for this price and it is ideal for a shooting board. I know the Woodriver planes are made in China and if I could buy the same quality in Europe or the US for the same price I would do it immediately.
another great video. I love the long term review...makes such a huge difference after a year or two of use. Only downside is it's hard to do these reviews regularly :D gotta wait a year in between each! All things considered, I've gotten great results out of the Wood River planes I've purchased. They are mid range price, great design. worth checking out in that price range. My others are Lie Nielson, so they don't count. But let me tell ya...getting a quality plane in your hands like the Kuntz or Wood River makes you realize why the quality matters...They are so much nicer to use! Just holding my Lie Nielson is a pleasure, makes working with them enjoyable. Same with the Wood River. Definitely worth investing in if you are serious about your woodworking and have the budget.
It's actually super comfortable, however you want to make sure you get the right version depending if you are left-handed or right-handed, as the horn shape is different. Right-handed versions are easy to find in the US, but the left-handed ones not as much. Since I am left-handed, I ended up ordering the lignum vitae version direct from Germany along with their block plane and I have been very happy with my purchase. The only modification I have really made to the plane was to edges of the blade where your hand goes in the back because it was digging into my hand. After rounding the edges over, it's now super comfortable to hold and works like a dream.
You know for $200 or so for the Kunz (no longer on amazon by the way) I would add another $59 and get a varitas #4 smoother or add $100 and get the custom #4 smother ( I would prefer that).
Nice review. The pros and cons are really well explained. I have never really settled on a favorite shooting plane. I've used and still swap around between a Veritas no.6, various Stanley's up to a Bedrock 607 and even a low angle block plane. The work piece seems to dictate which one is best.
For those who are out of reach of an MWTCA meet, one of these sounds reasonable. If you can get to such a meet, I can't imagine buying one of these in preference to an older Stanley #4. They are far superior after being tuned up, and while you can no longer count on finding one for $20 or less, you can almost certainly find them for $30.
I dunno, Rex. The Veritas #4 is only $227. Seems like a better tool than the Koontz (sp?) for that price. Unless you think it’s also likely to need flattening.
@@eblackbrook I hadn’t heard of them. Thanks. But either way, if I’m spending “almost $200” on a smoother or Jack, I think I’d just go get a premium plane.
For $200 you can also get a Wood River #4, which gets you a pretty nice bedrock clone with a bunch of refinements and modern machining tolerances. For traditional bevel down, I’m glad I accidentally chose that path. I think to do better, I’d have to go Lie Nielsen, which might buy me a tiny bit less backlash in the adjusters, and the satisfaction of buying from an artisan tool maker… but that comes with a bigger price tag for sure.
I'm not expecting it, but I would be really interested to hear Rex's thoughts on a super high end plane, like Bridge City Tools or another niche high-end toolmaker.
Some great of those required almost as much tuning as an abused vintage plane. If you can find someone to put a well tuned plane in your hands and show you how to tune them old plane can be much cheaper and better quality. There is also a lot of old junk also.
Great job Rex! Have you ever looked at the Groz line of Austrian hand planes? I have Nos. 5,6,&7 and, after tune up, they all work quite well. I haven't set up shooting board yet (shame on me) but I look forward to seeing how the No.5 performs. I also have a vintage Craftsman No. 5 1/2 that works really well.
I bought a Faithful no 6 smoothing plane for around £40. Out of the box, it was an insult to say it was a plane. It would not cut, and the parts were poorly cast and machined. I had to flatten the sole, which took over an hour because of how bad it was, and re angle and sharpen the blade. Finally the bolt that held the blade and chip breaker was a different size to the thread in the base, so it ripped out when it was lightly tightened with a screwdriver. I drilled out and tapped the hole, and fitted a larger and longer bolt, suitable to the job. Finally I cleaned up the chip breaker, as it had a rough contact point with the blade. After all this work - 2 and a half hours, it worked really well. I can get super thin cuts, and I can flatten out oak with little effort. It's probably due another flattering and blade sharpening after a year of modest use - I often use a vintage Stanley 4 1/2, which also required some minor work, mainly because a previous owner had maybe dropped it and damaged the sole. But a vintage one is better than a modern one, as the sole is much heavier and that's key to a good plane.
I just picked up a Woodriver #4 plane. It's cheaper than the Stanley and the Kunz (by like $10) and is set up pretty nice right out of the box. My understanding is that some of the older Woodriver planes weren't great, but the V3 ones seem to be pretty well received. I'd be curious to see a similar long-term review of that one.
They’re kind of an expensive one but they look very versatile so I would love to see you review the bridge city dual angle planes, HP-2 dual angle block plane and HP-12 dual angle bench plane. If they can replace two or three planes they might be worth it but I don’t know if they’re just gimmicky.
I'd like to see these compared to a Wood River #4. It's a more reliable clone of a Stanley Bedrock. I have one of their rabbet planes and I'm really impressed with it.
Fantastic video as usual, Rex! Request: a video about scrub planes and foreplanes and affordable/midrange examples of those? I'm just not sure where to start with that (and the ones on ebay seem... overpriced).
I think he made a video about different planes were he talked about scrub and fore planes. If you cant find an old wooden scrub plane both ece and ulmia makes inexpensive scrub planes that is basically like this smoother but large mouth, no chip breaker and narrower body. www.fine-tools.com/schrup.html. If you want a metal one just take the worst metal no 5 or 4 you have and round of the iron and back out the moth as much you can, might not even need to round the chipbreaker as wooden scrubs usually dont have chipbreakers. All continental scrub planes have narrower bodies to make them easier to push with the deep setting a scrub haves. Thats why you dont convert a worn smoother to a scrub as you might with a jack to a fore wich have greater mass and maybe less rounded irons that is not set as deep. But a old scrub dont need to bee in good condition to work good, as long as the bedding and cheeks are in order and shavings dont get stuck in the mouth, the flatness of the sole dont matter much as it is the try/jack planes work to straighten the piece. Mine looks beat up as all hell as any soon would after use. In fact a scrub plane is a good candidate for first homemade plane as it dont matter much if they are perfect or not and if the first one is ugly it dont matter either. Even the iron is simpler to make as there is no chip breaker. The mortice in a plane is not that hard to make if you let go of the preassure to get it perfect, but there is noting wrong with glued together planes either.
Another common option is buy several Stanley or Record planes used and tune them up well. They are affordable, available, and offer excellent value. Just saying...
Hi Rex. Thank you for an in-depth review :) Where I live in europe, shooting boards are not traditonal, so that is probably why european planes are not designed to work whith those. Have a look at a mitre jack, i am curious to see how you find working with those instead.
I have the Stanley sweetheart and love it. It does everything and feels like a well engineered tool. The only thing I don't like is what you mentioned that there some slop in the adjustment wheel but that's what a lot of even high end (> $200) planes do. I don't have a problem with the ergonomics at all and I have used the classic stanley's before. Also, i have never had to flattened the sole. It was flat when I got it 3 years ago and it has been flat since. I did sharpen the edge just because I'm a bit anal about sharpening but that's me. You could have used it straight out of the box. Thanks for the video and the other recommendations but I will pass.
Totally agree, in addition to my metallic planes, I have a load of wooden planes. Picked them up at carboot sales for £3-4 each, couldn’t say no and now I can “set and forget” them and they cut beautifully 😁 vintage tools all the way!!
Agreed. I have three planes, two are Stanley and one Union. #4, #5 and a #8. All of them came to me by asking around and all of them came to me for free. All of them were in very poor condition; very rusty, dull and needed a lot of work. Now all three are beautiful to look at and use. The newest one was made in the early 30's. Vintage tools are a very inexpensive way to get into this, but they will require love to get them serviceable.
Love watching Rex's "Plane Porn" videos. Something about them are always interesting in learning about manufacturing and design information about these tools.
For $20 more than the Kunz and $10 less than the Stanley, you can get a Woodriver 4/12 Smoothing Plane and I’d take that over a Stanley or Kunz any day. Bedrock style for easier adjustment, depth adjuster in the back and a better shaped handle. And I have to say, I have the 5 1/2 Jack and I’d be hard pressed to find a case where I want a smaller one for smoothing or a longer one for jointing.
I like the lever style lever cap over the screw style (just a bit faster/easier). But assuming lee valley is the place to order from, it’s $30 more and I have no complaints to make me want to spend the extra.
@@CultureStress As an American, I will ALWAYS choose Veritas over Wood River, but the prices aren't that close for me. If it was only $20 or $30 dollars US, I'd ahve nothing but Veritas. Sadly, that isn't the case.
Hey Rex, again a very good video with a very good approach of long term testing. I really like that, because it doesn't really matter how an expensive tool works when unboxing it. A sustainable tool works for years - maybe decades. By saying that I wonder if it is better to buy one high class smoothing plane in my life, instead of buying a mid class plane and the high class after some years. I'm exactly at this point. I own several cheap hand planes (one Stanley No 4 and several wooden ECE and Ulmia planes) and I wonder if a MadRiver or the Kunz you showed is "enough" for my life or if I should step into the high class of Veritas, Clifton or Lie-Nielsen. There is one thing you said I would not agree. You said that you set your ECE plane and left it like that for a year!? I have learned that wooden planes should be unset completely, when you don't use them for a while. Otherwise the parts which hold down the wedge can break, when humidity influences the plane body and the wedge. When buying used wooden planes the breaks around that part are a one of the most important things to control.
Buy the high quality plane. It sounds like you have gone the mid-level and cheap route. I think you will be amazed at how the tool works. Keep the others for different tasks, but yes, get the high class smoother!
Just found your videos and can’t stop watching. How does the grizzly plane compare to these. I have a few vintage planers you are inspiring me to restore.
I purchased a Tay-tools #4 this past November. It cost me 89 dollars. The blade was bowed and I can't find a replacement. The plane itself is square, smooth and easy to adjust. Just wish I had a better blade.
I find it crazy to pay that much for a wooden plane here (Switzerland) you can easily find excellent, sometimes barely used, wooden planes for 5 to 20 dollars.
Every time I see one of these reviews of "mid-priced" planes, I'm ever more thankful for the still in the box 1950's Stanley No. 4 that my Dad came across for buttons in a charity shop. :)
100% agree! I've had a sort of Stanley 12-404 knock-off plane, but without adjustment screws, so i had to adjust the iron with a hammer. After some UA-cam "research", I've bought a Stanley No. 4.
Oh My God! That was the best 35 USD invested in my woodworking tools. It wasn't the best quality hand plane - it has plastic handle and front knob and some stamped parts, but in terms of performance, it's just on another level in comparison with my old hand plane. The vintage Stanley/Record No. 4 represent the Lie Nielsen and Veritas for the beginners. They are simply the best.
Makes me appreciate my late father’s (and probably his father’s) 1910s No.4, and the 1960s one I picked up for a tenner from a vintage warehouse.
My #4? I bought it new at the local hardware store about 1975. I dug it out and cleaned off a bit of surface rust and the price tag. And put it to work. It was what I suppose was called the Handyman since it did not come with box or instructions but I have it working pretty well. My first love is not that plane, it's my Millers Falls #9, I got that one on Ebay, all in with shipping? $45.00. It's so pretty.
Still in the box? So you have never used it... I dont understand what exactly you mean or thankful for in this context. other than possesing a nice object from your father
@@cpzmelbs no, not mint unopened, just whoever had it before me stored in the cardboard box it came in. It's seen plenty of use both before and during my ownership.
Long-term reviews have a different value than box-opening reviews. Thanks for the effort.
Your comment at 7:40 is going into my vocabulary. I know several people like that.
Someone should make that a new meme format xD
"I have a lot of friends I don't like" - The Dowager Countess of Grantham.
I have an exam tomorrow and this makes for the best procrastination
Gl boss
Great luck, dude!!!
Woodworking is always the answer
As a complete loser. Please save yourself from my future and buckle down now so you can retire early instead of never.
I have to administer 2 exams tomorrow and same
OMG, you are the best. I hate out of the box tool reviews. Use it for a while, then talk to me. You used it for a year! You are the best.
Amazon review: I plugged it in and it works I guess - 5 stars
Kunz Plus 5 owner here. I had a similar experience: I had to flatten it once, which was a little disappointing, but it performs very well ever since.
A coworker of mine used to say “It’s only metal” that annoying corner on the Kunz can be rounded in seconds with a file to make it better for shooting, and speaking of shooting, the side of the iron on my Stanley cut my hand, so I took that sharp edge off, too. Much safer, more comfortable shooting now!
The issue you described with the sole of the Stanley changing and getting a shaving in only the center, this is the exact issue I have on my plane. Thank you for diagnosing that!!!!!!!
lololol "this plane is like a lot of people i know ....... i respect it , but i dont like it very much." :)) you are now my favorite youtuber :)
Someone should make that a new meme format! xD
I relate to that phrase so much!
I bought a $50 CAD footprint #4. Had to flatten and prep it using your antique restore videos. Used it for 6 months and had to do that again. So I bought a $287 CAD Veritas #4 instead of going half way and still having to prep them. You deserve one Rex.
I just did that price comparison on the Kunz vs the Veritas and yeah...it's nice to have manufacturing located in Canada for once, eh?
Veritas will win out against any of the planes tested in the video, far and away. I just don't think they are considered to be in the same class however. These planes are clearly a step below Veritas.
Nice to come across this review. I just bit the bullet yesterday and ordered a Kunz #4,5 and 6. I also got a Veritas pocket plane. This review gave me a little piece of mind on my impending delivery. Time to move on from my ACE Hardware planes.
I have a second Kunz Plus jack plane and I have used it for a year (first one was replaced by warranty because body broke near the frog set screw).
The good:
1. Frog and body meeting surfaces are machined well
2. Adjustment mechanism works well
3. Iron good
4. Comfortable to hold and to use
The bad:
1. Sole came wery crooked (both planes i had)
2. Chipbreaker crooked (both)
3. Iron crooked (only on one plane I had, but badly)
The ugly:
1. It took me over 6 hours to get it working. Works well after that and no problems.
2. Frog has a ugly and visible manufacturing defect. It does not affect functioning, though.
For the work that I do all I use and have is a low angle jack plane and that is perfect for anything
Every time a i search a tool review and find an "unboxing video" i think that long time work Is the only way for testing. I really appreciate the serious method and the "light" approach of the video: chapeau
"Unboxing" is a warning to watch something else for me.
Every shop should have a set of t handle allen keys. That would solve the long hex key issue
Every shop should have a little Rex tucked away in a comfy cupboard waiting on standby. That would solve _every_ issue.🔨
@@markzambelli you are not wrong.
Shopsmith does most of it with one 5/32 key. I have them all over the shop including one mounted to the inside of a cupboard door.
Rex,
I really enjoy your videos. You have a great presence and delivery. Your topics are well chosen, interesting and practical.
For all these reasons l am loath to point out any mistake or shortcoming. So please take this in the spirit in which it is offered.
You often refer to planes of the Stanley type as "metallic". They are metal. Metallic is defined as something related to or resembling metal.
And when you are demonstrating anything to do with planning, l notice that you do 90% of the work with your arms. Any of our woodworking heroes, Sellers or Cosman for instance, recommend pushing with your whole upper body.
Keep up the excellent work. You are close to the top of the heap for woodworking videos.
I'm really getting into your videos Rex. The part that goes above and beyond is suggesting planes to go with each. Some might already have these planes and be looking for the 'next one up' great video. 👍👍👍
When you get to a point where you CAN afford a better tool, "Buy once, cry once."
The same is said of buying Televue eyepieces. "You only cry once."
Several months ago I started looking around on youtube for ways to make better miters for my picture frames. I etch mirrors with my art work. My frames are less than perfect and in some cases not very good. Another goal was cutting my costs in anyway posable. I watched some of yours and Paul Sellers and a few others. The more I watched the more I started creating tools that didn't at the time seem to have any thing to do with my frames. I have picked up this fever of all things wood. I find myself thinking about it all the time. because of the fact I'm disabled and poor many of the things I'm working on are slow coming and have many things in different stages of build. This however makes me think in between cost getting there and this challenges me. So for the first time in along time I find myself motivated to do something. Keep doing what your doing so I can keep learning and doing what I'm doing, having fun for the first time in many years... Before now years ago I learned some basic carpentry, not woodworking. I never owned or touched a plane until the 404, I think its poorly made, but it has probably taught me more about planes than any other could have. This is one hell of journey. Thanks...
I have an old, like 70 + years old, Stanley Jack plane. It works GREAT for just about everything I need. I do have a very small plane to work on small jobs.
Having been asked by quite a few people how to " Fix a plane so it cuts". I have given up, they all want a quick onetime short class. They do not listen or understand the set up and maintenance involved. I refer them to two u tube channels yours and Paul Sellers. Between the two of you their is so much knowledge on call, who could ask for more.
A great source of fairly flat, stiff lapping plates is the scrap bin of a granite countertop place. Advantages of stone are it’s waterproof, stable, heavy and pretty flat (I don’t know how flat, though. It’s not a calibrated surface plate, after all). Damage to a stone surface makes a pit or scratch, but the material doesn’t rise above the surface, unlike metal or wood. And it’s usually free...
Yes Yes I've been wondering when this would come out forever I'm really happy today this made my day. They don't season the metal on the Stanley's so I'm not surprised it got a hollow.
I use a number 4 Stanley with replacement chipbreaker/ blade a number 6 Stanley and an ECE scrub plane. I find that the downsides of a wooden plane are less of a problem for scrub planes and the weight / surface is an advantage.
Great Review!!!
I recement the 62 low angle Jackplaine, you can shoot you can scrub(toothblade )
After some time watching Rex videos (and doing less thing on wood as I would like to) two things remain constant: fine tuning on the tool and maintenance. As a guy who have spent a lot of time in heavy industry (automotive), pointing out the fine setup and maintenance is equally valid with heavy equipment and hand tools.
Nice work Rex!
Well said. Low cost quality tools are a good starting point. But when you start to figure out what you like and need it's good to have an idea of what you're going to upgrade to. Thanks for another awesome presentation. 👍
Good stuff Rex! You're the first channel I've chosen to sponsor in 6 years. Worth every penny.
Wood river #4. $200.00 US at woodcraft. Based on the stanley bedrock design. Solid well made plane that is much better than any of the planes you show.
I have a 4 1/2 and it is very well made and works well on a shooting board among other things.
Very nice work and great explanation of the mutual benefit and appreciable need for the patrons.
I am using Luban planes made by Qiangsheng from Ruby's store on Aliexpress. They are really good quality at a great price, better than my old stanleys.
E.C.E makes another Line, the „Primus“ which is kind of an composition of a wooden plane and the mechanics of an iron plane like the stanley. Nice tool to work with, and easy ti setup without an hammer and fiddeling around :)
Search for "reformputzhobel" (german term for adjustable plane): you'll find Ulmia excellent Planes (the sole is made of lignum vitae, the body pear wood and both cit depht and mouth width are adjustable by screw). It's s the same meccanismo of vintage danish JPBO.
Most important: used ones (not Beatles) are sold for 50 euros...
ive got one and its my favorite
Buy an old Stanley and , if necessary, upgrade the blade. For me a top quality blade in a Bailey type adjuster is the best. That cow horn plane digs into my hand so I glued some foam in place just behind the blade. I have a Qiangsheng, but I find it to heavy for prolonged use.
ECE makes both a Jack and a Smoother that look nearly identical, each has a different bedding angle to the iron and pssoible a small, only 1/2" or so difference in ength. Both great tools and I use ECE planes in my shop.
0:30…”and that concludes my detailed explanation. Thank you”
In the beginning, I've had a sort of Stanley 12-404 knock-off plane, but without adjustment screws, so i had to adjust the iron with a hammer. After some UA-cam "research", I've bought a Stanley No. 4.
Oh My God! That was the best 35 USD invested in my woodworking tools. It wasn't the best quality hand plane - it has plastic handle and front knob and some stamped parts, but in terms of performance, it's just on another level in comparison with my old hand plane. The vintage Stanley/Record No. 4 represent the Lie Nielsen and Veritas for the beginners. They are simply the best (at least, the best I've tried).
Very good video Rex. There are some really good value old Stanley planes on eBay if you keep looking and I've found they don't take too much work to get them up and running again
Ha, there's a few curiosities settled about the Stanley and Kunz!
As aside about the wooden foreplane, if you want adjusters and can find it, try a later production transitional, preferrably a no. 26 since it uses 2 inch wide irons, because they use the same "clockwise-more blade, counter clockwise-less blade" depth adjustment as later metallic planes and use threaded inserts to hold the frog and frame down to the wood body. Pretty much the same frog screws also as a metal Stanley after a check. You can identify them by Bailey's name casted in front of the front knob.
The depth wheel is still the small one and about a mile and a half away from your finger (I can just barely get a grip on it with my middle finger), but still does a good job and is familiar after using a 1950's no. 4 for a while!
Rex, I have a vintage Stanley 4, 5, and 6 plus a Grisly I bought on your recommendation. My best experiences have been with the old Stanley 5 and 6 after adding a new Hock blade. I also added a Wood River V3 blade to the #4 and it also has had markedly better performance. This Leeds me to believe it’s all in the blade.
Been really happy with my Juuma. Of course, living in Germany for years means I have quite a few wooden planes. Once they're set, they're fine.
I have that Stanley and its developed an issue with leaving tracks from that mouth adjuster bit. I cleaned out the area and it does the same thing still. Beyond that it is a good smoother and once I get it right again its staying there.
Really enjoyed this video Rex. Getting long term reviews on products just doesn't happen much sadly, and is really valuable when evaluating a product or brand. I know there are some tech products I've bought that have had great first impression reviews, and worked great initially, but then went to crap in not too much time later. Thanks for the vid!
I bought the Stanley Sweetheart No. 4 as my second plane.
And for a complete beginner it is such a pain to use. So 3 knobs and mouth adjustment, plus a cap iron.
For a beginner each one of them caused problems. So cap iron does not seem to do anything to prevent tearout as advertised, it is either to close and in the way of actually cutting or not helping at all so in practice just makes setting of the plane harder.
The main problem with this plane is completelly loose norris style adjuster.
It is full of backlash. The blade can move a lot on its own!
First it take couple of full turns of the adjuster to move blade in the oposite direction, second moving it from side to side usually mess op the whole setup because it might for instance cause the blade to release tension and it would not only change side to side, but also push the whole blade forward making bigger cut.
Third it is hard to get good tension on all the screws for it to work fine, if you take it to tight the blade will not protrude untill it moves to far and then you have to take couple of full turns back and couple of full turns forward again to account for the backlash.
This the whole setup can become loose and move if you hold it by blade or cap iron (i.e. when shooting or pulling the plane). Well it is not exactly indetend to be used as such, but i did not have that problem with other planes.
So it took me 2 days to get resonable thing shavings... on pine... with tearout. Tearout was the reason I bought second plane in addition to 5x cheaper block plane that I had to grind to flat, but is still easier to control. So some time later I learned more about grain directions and can set the plane in resonable time, but then I will let it dull because I don't want to sharpen it and start setting it up from scratch...
Eventually a Vertias Low Angle jack plane shown up in stock somewhere. I bought it, unboxed it.
Sharpened it, moved few times on a stone at 25 (with a honning guide, I can hand sharpen bevel down plane as the angle or convex does not matter much there, but prefer honning guide on bevel up or hand strop if that's enough). So far no fairies.
Ok, so I put the blande in, adjusted the grab screws, took a piece of pine, turned the weel. What?! It works, it just works. Ok it gives me tear out in places but I expected that on this part.
But it just works, I did not spent a minute trying to set it up to cut well and I even have grab screws slightly off, but it just bloody cuts? Just like that? Like on some fancy youtube channel?
Why did I wasted my life on the stanley? A wait, high angle plance, so I can smooth it up with less tearout. So tried that got annoyed at the adjuster again, ordered a next blade for the low angle jack.
Ok, so new blade 25 to start, let's put 45 on it for total of 57... but maybe let's try 35 first? it should be almost the same as stanley then.
Ok done 47 in total, put the blade in, did I mention the settings stays between resharpening of the same blade?
Ok, pine where are you, one move, WHAT KIND OF SORCERY IS THAT?!
Luster! through the knots and changing grain. Where is my elm, oh waith walnut, oak, maple, iroko. So this is how it feels? This is how it is supposed to work?
*****.
Maybe I would actually build something now instead of buying more wood types and tools. Bench would be nice.
So why did I wasted my life on stanley again? I guess it is gona be a scrub plane know, but is somewhat heavy for that I use and 6x cheaper "japanese" plane I have is not bad for that (because is cheap and not yet well set).
Surelly stanley can be setup, even I almost get it now and can get fine shavings, but it is just not fun.
Now I guess not everyone should spend money on one plane in price of 5 (a collection of cheap japanese planes or few cheap brands) or 2 resonable ones and have them setup differently for different tasks.
But if someone is here for fun and don't have tone of time I can not stress how much easier it is to start with the Vertias low angle jack plane with couple of blades.
If I would to start now I would only bought that one with blade sharpened to 35 degrees and when sharp it is enough for me at the moment.
Then add lower / higher when needed.
Don't know about America but here in Germany the iron planes are sooo expensive if you want them used. Of course new ones are even more expensive ;) I bought a wooden ECE, which was only about a year old, for about 40$. THIS is the ultimate starting plane because you still have money left to also buy a used wooden scrup and a jounter plane :) For 100 bucks I got everything I need for the next years. And setting them is just some practice (and to be honest, as a free-time woodworker some seconds more fiddling is not so important).
I have been using the ECE for close to 30 years and love it but I do have an old Stanley No 5 for all the rough stuff.
Quote of the day: "Overall, this (plane) is like a lot of people I know. I respect it, but I don't like it very much."
I too recommend subscribing to Rex and contributing on Patreon. It's likely less than you spend on "coffee" every day.
Excellent summary Rex, keep up the great videos.
I respect this comment. 😂
I like the reviews, but I still think the best hand planes to buy are vintage Stanleys. When I started, I bought a new, cheapish Bench Dog #4 for $150. The tool is now my scrub. Later that year, I bought a type 19 Stanley no 5 jack on ebay for like $120 after shipping. That tool is lightyears better than that $150 bench dog. Comfortable in the hands, cut well, the iron holds an edge. Sure, I had to hunt for a plane in good shape and a good deal, but the effort was well worth it. Around december, I got tired of using the bench dog for finishing work and went on the hunt for a vintage Stanley #4 on ebay. Found a type 19 in good shape for $85 after shipping, and I absolutely love that plane. Vintage tools are the way to go for hand tools.
I've been looking to try out a handplane. This was just the review I was looking for. I like the idea of the out of the box working condition of the Stanley No. 4. I will probably give this one a go.
I like the video, it was entertaining and contained a lot of... passive information. As in giving a deeper understanding of different plane aspects thats relevent with or without any interest of the specific planes, thanks for that.
It did feel a little weird though, that you didnt even touch the subject of a vintage no.4 in this context.
I might have missed something , and can think of a number of reasonable reasons why. I just wanted to share the feedback.
Thanks for your work, always a pleasure to watch!
A2 steel's primary benefit is that it's easier to heat treat without warping. I'm rather skeptical that you'll get much difference in the edge when compared with W1 or O1.
One thing I'd love to see is a side-by-side comparison of Stanley's current production #4 planes. That Sweetheart model is rather different from the other three models Isee at Amazon, which range in price from $24 to $74.
Well thought out, long term analysis Rex! Sehr gut! 👍
Danke!
I like the tool in your profile pic.
What is it?
Mine is just a letter T.
I bought a Taurus (Aldi) band saw in 2006 now 2021. It worked great until I needed new pulley tires. Aldi now get their band saws from another manufacture. They don’t have tires for this 2006 Taurus band saw. Their current “Taurus” band saw is different! If I can not find the ties elsewhere I will have to replace it with a more quality manufacturer, Ryobi, Skill, Richardson what ever. As always, cheap ALWAYS works out dear!
OMG…My dad had a couple of those ‘coffin planes’ in the shed…chucked when he died. How I wish now to have kept one for posterity.
Vintage planes from eBay and flea markets all the way for me. Cheap and good quality with a little fettling.
I think your evaluation of these planes is pretty much spot on. I have the same number four sweetheart and filed down the front of the handle but it still not quite right in the hand and adjusting and weight does makes it a clunker. However it is good at shooting and will smooth very well when the vintage number four is dull or needs small mouth. As far as videos go I think you got three or four in total from this series. Still think you are better off in long run with vintage four and five if you can swing it, that and low angle block plane and you are set. Oh yea, thanks for heads up on Spear and Jackson saw, got one per your recommendation, cleaned plate with acetone, set kerf at 33 thou. and ran over with file twice to relax rake a bit, saws great, impressed. Front of saw did P.S. set., only thing is I have to squeeze little finger to lift saw to start, then works great. Little better at cross cut than rip but still great saw, I even cut some dove tails just for S and Gs and was doable. Thanks for such informative videos.
Rex, after watching a variety of different UA-cam tools reviews over the years, I have to say that you do the best job of anybody I have seen. After seeing someone take a no 4 out of a box, take it apart, and bitch and moan about it's deficiencies; sharpen the iron and test it; then proceed to tell viewers how bad it was; I was left wondering if he had put some more effort into tuning it up, what the result would have been. Personally, I prefer wooden plane, of which I have a variety, as well as a few older Stanleys, No 4's, a 5, and a 6. I have some Stanley combination planes too, including the longest Jointer plane I've ever seen (36 inches). Anyway, keep up the good work. I send people to your channel now when they ask me questions about hand tool setup all the time. I help them when I can, but I don't always have the time available myself. Yo will be seeing me on your Patreon soon, after I'm done with my taxes.
As for ergonomics of stanley sw, i think it's more of a personal preference. Handle and overall hand positioning fits perfectly in my hand. I'm not an alien, so it might fit other people too :) The biggest shortcomming is that you can forget to lock that mouth adjustment screw or it may come loose unintentionally... and if you're lucky like i am, adjustable part will hit the iron and leave a chip in a2 steel. Anyway, this is a good go-to plane. Not expensive enough to be afraid to use it and good enough get the job done.
Great video Rex! I had exactly the same experience with the Kunz plus no.4 just a couple of weeks back. It was bowed along it's length with a hollow starting before the blade and it was actually convex cross it's width. It looks like yours is the same based on the wear pattern when you sanded it, the back end looks to flatten in the middle first with pen still on the edges. Whilst it is beautifully engineered, at this price point i expected more and lacked confidence in it so unfortunately it's been returned. Shame as I really liked it otherwise.
I have had a Woodriver # 5 1/2 for about 275 US $ (all taxes included) for several months now. It is a very good plane of good quality for this price and it is ideal for a shooting board.
I know the Woodriver planes are made in China and if I could buy the same quality in Europe or the US for the same price I would do it immediately.
I think vintage is the way to go. Bought quite a few via eBay, etc and so far so good.
How long ago? Last I looked they were $100+ for a half way decent one sadly.
@@FlyingRock225 I paid $75 6 months ago for one. There were many as of 3 months ago in the 50ish range if you look at non-Stanley names.
Fantastic review, Rex! Thanks a lot! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
another great video. I love the long term review...makes such a huge difference after a year or two of use. Only downside is it's hard to do these reviews regularly :D gotta wait a year in between each!
All things considered, I've gotten great results out of the Wood River planes I've purchased. They are mid range price, great design. worth checking out in that price range. My others are Lie Nielson, so they don't count.
But let me tell ya...getting a quality plane in your hands like the Kuntz or Wood River makes you realize why the quality matters...They are so much nicer to use! Just holding my Lie Nielson is a pleasure, makes working with them enjoyable. Same with the Wood River. Definitely worth investing in if you are serious about your woodworking and have the budget.
Thanks Rex, I was just considering between the Kunz and the Stanley SH. Great video!
Nice comparison of 3 previously reviewed planes. That ECE looks cumbersome with the front horn.
It's actually super comfortable, however you want to make sure you get the right version depending if you are left-handed or right-handed, as the horn shape is different. Right-handed versions are easy to find in the US, but the left-handed ones not as much. Since I am left-handed, I ended up ordering the lignum vitae version direct from Germany along with their block plane and I have been very happy with my purchase. The only modification I have really made to the plane was to edges of the blade where your hand goes in the back because it was digging into my hand. After rounding the edges over, it's now super comfortable to hold and works like a dream.
You know for $200 or so for the Kunz (no longer on amazon by the way) I would add another $59 and get a varitas #4 smoother or add $100 and get the custom #4 smother ( I would prefer that).
A hex-head bolt or screw is one that requires a wrench. A socket head is one that uses a hex key OR allen wrench. Machine shop 101.
Nice review. The pros and cons are really well explained. I have never really settled on a favorite shooting plane. I've used and still swap around between a Veritas no.6, various Stanley's up to a Bedrock 607 and even a low angle block plane. The work piece seems to dictate which one is best.
Thanks for the solid, in depth review, Rex!
For those who are out of reach of an MWTCA meet, one of these sounds reasonable. If you can get to such a meet, I can't imagine buying one of these in preference to an older Stanley #4. They are far superior after being tuned up, and while you can no longer count on finding one for $20 or less, you can almost certainly find them for $30.
Excellent video rex really enjoying the stuff on patreon at the moment
I dunno, Rex. The Veritas #4 is only $227. Seems like a better tool than the Koontz (sp?) for that price.
Unless you think it’s also likely to need flattening.
@@eblackbrook I hadn’t heard of them. Thanks.
But either way, if I’m spending “almost $200” on a smoother or Jack, I think I’d just go get a premium plane.
Or save another month or two more and have a Lie Nielsen in cast iron for $300. It has IMO a better adjustment system.
@@jguil4d I would put up a Veritas plane against the Lie Nielsen. They are both high-end planes.
For $200 you can also get a Wood River #4, which gets you a pretty nice bedrock clone with a bunch of refinements and modern machining tolerances. For traditional bevel down, I’m glad I accidentally chose that path. I think to do better, I’d have to go Lie Nielsen, which might buy me a tiny bit less backlash in the adjusters, and the satisfaction of buying from an artisan tool maker… but that comes with a bigger price tag for sure.
Nice video, not sure how I missed it the 1st time out!
I'm not expecting it, but I would be really interested to hear Rex's thoughts on a super high end plane, like Bridge City Tools or another niche high-end toolmaker.
Some great of those required almost as much tuning as an abused vintage plane. If you can find someone to put a well tuned plane in your hands and show you how to tune them old plane can be much cheaper and better quality. There is also a lot of old junk also.
Wow! So much information thank you for all of you very well thought out and thorough videos!!
Great job Rex! Have you ever looked at the Groz line of Austrian hand planes? I have Nos. 5,6,&7 and, after tune up, they all work quite well. I haven't set up shooting board yet (shame on me) but I look forward to seeing how the No.5 performs. I also have a vintage Craftsman No. 5 1/2 that works really well.
Thanks for the information. Keep up the great content
I bought a Faithful no 6 smoothing plane for around £40. Out of the box, it was an insult to say it was a plane. It would not cut, and the parts were poorly cast and machined. I had to flatten the sole, which took over an hour because of how bad it was, and re angle and sharpen the blade. Finally the bolt that held the blade and chip breaker was a different size to the thread in the base, so it ripped out when it was lightly tightened with a screwdriver. I drilled out and tapped the hole, and fitted a larger and longer bolt, suitable to the job. Finally I cleaned up the chip breaker, as it had a rough contact point with the blade. After all this work - 2 and a half hours, it worked really well. I can get super thin cuts, and I can flatten out oak with little effort. It's probably due another flattering and blade sharpening after a year of modest use - I often use a vintage Stanley 4 1/2, which also required some minor work, mainly because a previous owner had maybe dropped it and damaged the sole. But a vintage one is better than a modern one, as the sole is much heavier and that's key to a good plane.
I just picked up a Woodriver #4 plane. It's cheaper than the Stanley and the Kunz (by like $10) and is set up pretty nice right out of the box. My understanding is that some of the older Woodriver planes weren't great, but the V3 ones seem to be pretty well received. I'd be curious to see a similar long-term review of that one.
Always love your bits of humor n editing 😆
They’re kind of an expensive one but they look very versatile so I would love to see you review the bridge city dual angle planes, HP-2 dual angle block plane and HP-12 dual angle bench plane. If they can replace two or three planes they might be worth it but I don’t know if they’re just gimmicky.
I'd like to see these compared to a Wood River #4. It's a more reliable clone of a Stanley Bedrock. I have one of their rabbet planes and I'm really impressed with it.
Fantastic video as usual, Rex! Request: a video about scrub planes and foreplanes and affordable/midrange examples of those? I'm just not sure where to start with that (and the ones on ebay seem... overpriced).
I think he made a video about different planes were he talked about scrub and fore planes.
If you cant find an old wooden scrub plane both ece and ulmia makes inexpensive scrub planes that is basically like this smoother but large mouth, no chip breaker and narrower body.
www.fine-tools.com/schrup.html.
If you want a metal one just take the worst metal no 5 or 4 you have and round of the iron and back out the moth as much you can, might not even need to round the chipbreaker as wooden scrubs usually dont have chipbreakers.
All continental scrub planes have narrower bodies to make them easier to push with the deep setting a scrub haves. Thats why you dont convert a worn smoother to a scrub as you might with a jack to a fore wich have greater mass and maybe less rounded irons that is not set as deep. But a old scrub dont need to bee in good condition to work good, as long as the bedding and cheeks are in order and shavings dont get stuck in the mouth, the flatness of the sole dont matter much as it is the try/jack planes work to straighten the piece. Mine looks beat up as all hell as any soon would after use.
In fact a scrub plane is a good candidate for first homemade plane as it dont matter much if they are perfect or not and if the first one is ugly it dont matter either. Even the iron is simpler to make as there is no chip breaker. The mortice in a plane is not that hard to make if you let go of the preassure to get it perfect, but there is noting wrong with glued together planes either.
Another common option is buy several Stanley or Record planes used and tune them up well. They are affordable, available, and offer excellent value. Just saying...
Hi Rex. Thank you for an in-depth review :) Where I live in europe, shooting boards are not traditonal, so that is probably why european planes are not designed to work whith those. Have a look at a mitre jack, i am curious to see how you find working with those instead.
Wow, thorough. Excellent review. Thanks kindly.
I have the Stanley sweetheart and love it. It does everything and feels like a well engineered tool. The only thing I don't like is what you mentioned that there some slop in the adjustment wheel but that's what a lot of even high end (> $200) planes do. I don't have a problem with the ergonomics at all and I have used the classic stanley's before. Also, i have never had to flattened the sole. It was flat when I got it 3 years ago and it has been flat since. I did sharpen the edge just because I'm a bit anal about sharpening but that's me. You could have used it straight out of the box. Thanks for the video and the other recommendations but I will pass.
That's one of the reasons why I like vintage tools. Often cheap, plenty of life, and good quality. Finding them does take patience though.
Totally agree, in addition to my metallic planes, I have a load of wooden planes. Picked them up at carboot sales for £3-4 each, couldn’t say no and now I can “set and forget” them and they cut beautifully 😁 vintage tools all the way!!
Agreed. I have three planes, two are Stanley and one Union. #4, #5 and a #8. All of them came to me by asking around and all of them came to me for free. All of them were in very poor condition; very rusty, dull and needed a lot of work. Now all three are beautiful to look at and use. The newest one was made in the early 30's. Vintage tools are a very inexpensive way to get into this, but they will require love to get them serviceable.
Love watching Rex's "Plane Porn" videos. Something about them are always interesting in learning about manufacturing and design information about these tools.
For $20 more than the Kunz and $10 less than the Stanley, you can get a Woodriver 4/12 Smoothing Plane and I’d take that over a Stanley or Kunz any day. Bedrock style for easier adjustment, depth adjuster in the back and a better shaped handle. And I have to say, I have the 5 1/2 Jack and I’d be hard pressed to find a case where I want a smaller one for smoothing or a longer one for jointing.
As a Canadian, I'll take a Veritas over the wood river. Not sure how the border effects the relative prices for you.
I like the lever style lever cap over the screw style (just a bit faster/easier). But assuming lee valley is the place to order from, it’s $30 more and I have no complaints to make me want to spend the extra.
@@CultureStress As an American, I will ALWAYS choose Veritas over Wood River, but the prices aren't that close for me. If it was only $20 or $30 dollars US, I'd ahve nothing but Veritas. Sadly, that isn't the case.
Nice video Rex thank you for the follow up.
So even at $200 there's issues, guess I'll keep saving and make my first plane a Lie-Nielsen. Thanks for the info!
Quite right, I waited and bought an LN and it's definitely been worth the investment. I can't even see the blade wearing out in my lifetime.
Another brilliant video, please could you put the names of the planes in the description, the auto craptions 😃 weren't great. Many thanks
Until he does they are, in order: ECE Emmerich, Kunz plus, Stanley Sweetheart
@@TheCaptainmaim thanks Robert, much appreciated
Hey Rex, again a very good video with a very good approach of long term testing. I really like that, because it doesn't really matter how an expensive tool works when unboxing it. A sustainable tool works for years - maybe decades. By saying that I wonder if it is better to buy one high class smoothing plane in my life, instead of buying a mid class plane and the high class after some years. I'm exactly at this point. I own several cheap hand planes (one Stanley No 4 and several wooden ECE and Ulmia planes) and I wonder if a MadRiver or the Kunz you showed is "enough" for my life or if I should step into the high class of Veritas, Clifton or Lie-Nielsen.
There is one thing you said I would not agree. You said that you set your ECE plane and left it like that for a year!? I have learned that wooden planes should be unset completely, when you don't use them for a while. Otherwise the parts which hold down the wedge can break, when humidity influences the plane body and the wedge. When buying used wooden planes the breaks around that part are a one of the most important things to control.
Buy the high quality plane. It sounds like you have gone the mid-level and cheap route. I think you will be amazed at how the tool works. Keep the others for different tasks, but yes, get the high class smoother!
Just found your videos and can’t stop watching. How does the grizzly plane compare to these. I have a few vintage planers you are inspiring me to restore.
Hi, Rex, Cuban viewer reporting from Havana! Hoping to see a new flag soon. Keep up the amazing work!
I purchased a Tay-tools #4 this past November. It cost me 89 dollars. The blade was bowed and I can't find a replacement. The plane itself is square, smooth and easy to adjust. Just wish I had a better blade.
Taytools sells blades for their planes on their website.
@@benjaminlindell2548 I didn't know they had a web-site.
thank you Rex
I find it crazy to pay that much for a wooden plane here (Switzerland) you can easily find excellent, sometimes barely used, wooden planes for 5 to 20 dollars.
You are a gem sir.
💚
Appreciate you, Rex!