This brought me to tears. I'm really starting to realize how traumatized I actually am from purity culture. I feel so broken and hopeless because, like you said, the conditioning and shame goes down SO deep that it's hard to root out. I wonder how long it will take to heal from this damage.
This is so refreshing and relevant. I finally stepped away from church during COVID thinking it was all done and dusted.. but wow exactly what you're talking about. The buried SHAME. I didn't think anything about it until I started dating and just felt so ashamed over stupid things. Feeling so ashamed about having sexual desire, about wanting to be intimate. And then hating yourself for it. Thanks for opening up this discussion !
This hits hard!!! I started looking for resources for a project I'm working on on purity culture and when I found you guys I felt like you were echoing my feelings!! Love it all!! Another thing I've felt growing up in purity culture is that I am objectified just as much by christian men as by the world. And if anything it's worse because at least the world tells me that I'm pretty instead of "Yuck, cover up." I have felt that my worth is in my sexuality. Only it's that I'm too sexual. My dad literally freaked out at me when my shirt slipped down a little bit and you could see a centimeter of my cleavage. It also makes me upset that so much more pressure is put on the women than the men. Not saying I want to walk around naked, but I shouldn't have to be afraid of guys looking at me and thinking I'm beautiful
I want to thank the two of you for having this discussion. There is so much content regarding the effects of Purity Culture on women’s sexuality and relationships but almost nothing on the impact that it has had on many men. Unfortunately, while Purity Culture went mainstream beginning in the 1990s the messages were very prevalent well before then, they just were not yet neatly packaged into a marketable and profitable product for mass consumption. I am 50 and have NEVER been able to date or have a romantic relationship (save for one brief and extremely violent relationship 30 years ago) not only because of the direct result of the messages I grew up with but also because it has fundamentally screwed up how attraction (both romantic and sexual, but especially sexual) works for me and as a consequence there has never been a woman who ever felt any attraction whatsoever for me because I can not make women feel sexually desired, nor even know who to approach since I feel no initial attraction whatsoever, because I can not focus my sexual attraction on any specific woman because of those messages and the imagery and emotions they evoke. I was taught that ALL sexuality was evil, of the devil, and that pleasure was the proof that sex was an evil temptation. It was still sinful in marriage but at least forgivable if for procreation whereas outside of marriage sex, and even sexual thought, were portrayed as absolute unforgivable sins. I was taught that to have a sexual thought that includes another would damn not only myself but the woman as well AND (because such isn’t damaging enough) that such thoughts were equivalent to RAPING a woman since they were presumably without her permission (essentially a reworking of Matthew 5:28). I have spent more than 30 years trying to get that image and the emotions that anything to do with sexuality trigger and I have never had any luck getting rid of the results of that messaging and what it evokes! At this point it is highly improbable that I will ever be able to have a romantic relationship as even if I managed to overcome that messaging by some miracle I have literally no knowledge of how to even begin to express myself sexually in any capacity towards another person (nor any idea even how to date for that matter as I missed out on all of that growing up…and we do not exactly have a culture that is very forgiving of 50 year old men trying to figure out sexual expression should they make even a minor mistake!). Combine that with physical disability, mental illness, and myriad chronic illnesses and Complex PTSD from an abusive childhood and the harm that caused to my health and there is literally no matching partner for someone like myself. The only persons I have ever felt any romantic attraction for have all been close friends, but by then one is well and deep into the so called friend-zone and women, as a rule, do not pursue relationships with firmly entrenched friends (especially friends that have never exhibited outward sexuality up to that point) - I have a 30 year 100% rejection ratio on the friends front! I excel at becoming very close, often best friends, with women - so I am great at being “liked”, but never “loved” - but none have ever been able to even fathom the idea of a romantic relationship with someone like myself as I do not trigger the three things women desire: chemistry, passion, and butterfly feelings! And it is no fault of any of the women, I have valued their friendships immensely over the years, I blame Evangelical Fundamentalism entirely! I just wish I new why I was created to love others deeply but never to actually have that love returned. On the brighter side of things, if it were nit for unrequited love then I would know no love at all! 😉 And I do at least have the opportunity to help those I have loved find their future loves, and I am grateful for that as, more than anything, I very much wish for them to be happy, but it still hurts that I can never be that person for anyone! But I know exactly what you mean about being at war with oneself as I have been at war with myself going back so far that even in my teens I have never seen a beautiful woman and felt any initial attraction whatsoever towards her and have never, ever, thought to myself that I wanted to have sex with her. I do very much desire sex, but I have NEVER been able to focus that desire on an actual person because that would be to “rape” her and, as someone who grew up with abuse, even the mere suggestion that I would be harming someone is a place I could never allow my mind to go. It has made for an exceptionally lonely life as an adult, but even with therapy the damage seems to have been done, sadly! But it was very nice to actually see a man discussing this issue from his perspective as there is so very little of that online that I have found. The whole “men are monsters” message growing up doesn’t exactly help either as I have always felt like I have to, for whatever reason, protect others from myself for fear of hurting them even though in reality I am as utterly nonviolent and kind as they come. Their teachings have similarly poisoned my view of God as well and the childhood abuse only served to further reinforce all these damaging messages growing up, but I was very much taught a hateful, vengeful, judging, and wrathful God growing up - growing up believing that I had already been damned as a 12 year old child because of the abuse and inability to purge every sexual thought - and I can scarcely imagine what this “loving God” so many others speak of would be like (but I certainly wish that I knew that God)! I struggle terribly, though, with why a loving God would allow such abuses to be committed against powerless children and why he abandons such children to their fate?! Sorry, I have not been in a very good place these past several years with the return of all the memories of past abuse and Complex PTSD in full force.
Thank you for sharing. I just started therapy AGAIN (for the 4th time) because I have still not been able to get past this toxic messaging. I am terrified of emotional/physical intimacy because according to that messaging I am "the gatekeeper" or "the brake to his accelerator". I'm reading "The Great Sex Rescue" right now, and it has been so helpful in helping me process that messaging.
This conversation was so refreshing for me to hear as a Millennial who grew up in the evangelical church during this movement. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on how we can change the conversation for future generations in the church (and outside of it)
I’m now realizing, after 15 years of marriage, how damaging purity culture was to me. I don’t necessarily know what I want sexually. Because I was taught for years to never explore my sexuality. To suppress it. I feel like I almost can’t, or am not allowed, to explore my sexuality. Even though I’m 36…and even though I’m married. I still, in the back of my mind, feel like that’s “wrong.” I sometimes still get feelings of wanting to hide during sex, because I feel vulnerable & like what I am doing is bad. I am currently working on undoing the damage.
I've recently started digging back into purity culture ever since I recently got married last year to a wonderful Christian man who shares the same core beliefs as I do and this video has helped me tremendously. Its especially wonderful to see a husband and wife come together to share their stories. 💙
Purity Culture is so demeaning to women. It focuses on female purity more than dudes. It is a females fault if a male turns to sexual impurity or decides to rape her. Um... excuse me? I am so glad you two made this video for everyone. I never grew up in the purity movement....thank God, because I believe if you are physically and mentally ready for sex....go for it. No human has the right to make you feel guilty for having "feelings" that are normal and given to you by God. Never been married, have a son out of wedlock and don't care. I don't regret anything. You guys are so awesome for talking about this. God Bless you! And go in love and light!
It can and does mess up Men also. I have known two men ( brothers to one another) who suffer from distortions in their sexuality due to their parents interpretation of what should be ( well beyond the congregation culture ). The older is married but he and his wife have sex only once a month by agreement. The other is much worse, he married and refused to consummate their marriage for eight years until He became an addict and cheated on her . Leaving her feeling rejected and unloved. She then turned to the first person to come along ( a non Christian man more than twice her age who is abusive ). It is tragic. I was in the same congregation but was not raised in THAt congregation. My wife and are are u touched by whatever happened there.
Hi Kara and Caleb, appreciate your honesty here. I’m taking some time to write this because my story is similar to yours but I’ve felt liberated and whole thru the Gospel and not thru it’s deconstruction. I think you are touching upon several unfortunate and true misuses and abuses of how sex was talked about or not talked about within the church. In as much as we were taught to view ourselves as damaged goods, women as objects and our bodies as only bad, you are right this was either promoted ignorantly or very very very poorly. However, while I see and have experienced the distortions of “purity culture” myself, I have to, like anyone within a particular context discern the errors and hold to what is true. Even as you are able to discern these errors yourself and yet still recognize that there is something inherently good about commitment, love for your spouse, and sex. I also will do the same based upon what Scripture says. I don’t think a call to purity, fidelity and waiting for marriage was or is the problem in “purity culture”. These are all biblical values you would have and may still to some degree see as valuable. The problem in some forms and camps of the “purity culture” (cuz not every evangelical church was as misguided as you experienced), was what was upheld as the motivation for purity and the remedy for when we fail. I’m obviously coming from a foundation that has “sin” as a category still. If you’ve “deconstructed” I assume sin is not a relevant category for you anymore? I don’t know. But given the reality of what Jesus says in his Word, sin is a thing. For Jesus sin really is destructive. It’s why he came and gave his life as you know. But sin is sin not because he wants us to feel shame but because any creature made in his image innately feels shame when we fall short of representing his gloriously holy and pure character. Thus, a category of pure and impure is woven all throughout Scripture. The Bible is very binary. Shame was considered a real thing. Every human being who has ever walked the planet can relate to feeling shame, just like Adam. It’s nothing new. This is where the purity movement went awry because the motivation to stay pure was not big enough. The goal of waiting for marriage and denying lust is too small of a goal if that is it. It created many self righteous Christians and many broken shame filled ones as you experienced. As Christians our motivation must be for the glory of God (whatever you do, do all for the .......). Why? Because when that is the goal and standard, the self righteous are humbled by his greatness and the shame filled marvel at his grace. Jesus came to earth to both reveal the absolute impossibility of the task to be holy and pure (sermon on the mount) AND hope for all those who acknowledge it (There is therefore no condemnation......) You felt shame because you were told to go attain to a standard too big (only God is pure), with the wrong kind of motivating fuel (remain undamaged), leaving you disillusioned and shame filled without a remedy for “damaged goods”. In as much as this is the message you imbibed i stand with you in denouncing it. The Glory of God is the goal, his grace is the fuel and the Gospel is the remedy for our brokenness. Caleb you mentioned feeling pain down to your bones due to how much shame you were carrying alone. While I sympathize with you regarding the sometimes poor teaching in this movement I also still hold to sin being a thing according to scripture. David said something similar to you in Psalm 32 “for when I kept silent my bones wasted away”. But he says this in contrast to what comes before this. David is a man liberated from shame for he says “Blessed is the man whose transgression is forgiven and in whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man of whom the Lord counts no iniquity.” Shame is real and God knows how to deal with it. He covers it. He forgives it. We are made happy and blessed when our impurity is made pure, when our transgressions are declared blameless and when our sin is not counted against us. The cross is the antidote for shame. Jesus bore our shame and covered us with his righteousness. Yes purity is valuable, but we all fall short of it but there is a way for us to live shame free. And it’s not by the erasure of sin as myth but it’s in an acknowledgement of our falling short before a gloriously good God who sent his Son for our sin so that we would not bear it. He is good. He bears sin and took upon our shame. He forgives freely. Please do not be ashamed of him too. He really did pay it all for us. True liberation from shame comes by it being covered by Christ, not by denying the reality of the sin that caused it. Yes reject the inconsistent and unbiblical lies that were taught directly or mistakenly by this movement, but don’t reject the Savior who really did come into this work preaching repentance (Mark 1:15). Anyways I really did appreciate your conversation on this subject as I really do agree with some of your grievances I just think there is a better antidote to the purity issue found only in Christ.
Well said. I was hoping someone addressed this with truth and grace. As I was listening, I was wondering if any of their new found dispositions and conclusions were based in a deeper revelation and understanding of the Word but couldn’t hear any evidence so. Thank you for taking the time to break it down.
Wow, this has given me some insight into why I feel the need to ask all the time if there's something wrong, or why I feel like someone is always mad at me. Thanks. It's given me a lot to think about.
This is so important. Thank you it helps me and so many people to heal by understanding why this is painful and damaging and hopefully helps people to find new ways to teach young people in churches about dealing in a healthy way with their natural urges and without traumatising them. It happens in evangelical communities in Germany as well. Thank you so much.!
Caleb - We met way way back when I was a closeted queer kid in the throws of evangelicalism & prior to your deconstruction. It’s so incredible to see where your journey has taken you and that you’ve found someone to be on this journey with!!! Happy to be on the other side with you! This video was super accessible and I’m excited to share it with the young & deconstructing in my life.
Hey Kate! Thanks for your kind words and yes, Kara is the best. ☺️ So so happy that you’re on the other side as well. When did we first meet? Thanks for watching and sharing. Let us know if there are other videos you think would be helpful.
17:41 is absolutely spot-on. I speak from experience. A lot of this purity lunacy comes from the traditional misinterpretation of Matthew 5: 27+28. I believe that Jesus's words in those passages were intended to prevent self-righteousness, not promote repression. Jesus also said that his yoke was a light one, and trying to block every sexual thought when I was a teenager felt like an anvil was around my neck. Great videos.
I’ve only just started to try and heal from the damage that purity culture has done, this video was so comforting and helpful. Thank you for putting it out in here.
Love the switch of conversation around sex…. How it is this wonderful connection in marriage ! Married sex isn't talked about all in the church! Make that look good, dudes- then singles will want that more! You two are the cutest. 🥰
The problem is not the advocating for living a responsable and moral life. These are good things. The problem is the condemnation about the sexual feelings waking up in the puberty. We are expected to be like eunucks intil the wedding day. People are different and some have a stronger desire than other. In the purity culture even masturbation is claimed to be sin despite there is absolute zero support for that in the bible. Apostle Paul adviced us to marry if we cannot live restrained. He did not condemn us for the lack of self control. If we cannot live restrained during the wait for someone to marry and do not want to have sexual intercourse, the only option is to satisfy ourself. There are truckloads of testamonies of people, especially women, who have been so damaged by the purity culture that they are unable to have a sexlife when they marry, because the shame about the sexuality caused by the purity culture. I am personally a victim of the purity culture. When I became a christian I initially got an unspeakable joy about to wait with sex until I find a woman to marry. But as time went on I became more and more condemned about my sexual feelings and got severe depressions. The joy for sex with a future wife was totally destroyed. This resulted in a sexual frustration and my sexual desire grown stronger than ever before. I became a sex addict. The purity culture is truly destructive: the result is for many the very opposite to what it's claimed to result in!
This has F up a lot of peoples view on relationships especially males obsession with virgin girls with child/baby like traits 🤬. Down right hypocritical & double standards men have when they have been with a lot of partners grr 🤬
just to clarify because I'm curious and still a little confused, are you saying trying to force yourself to wait until marriage is not a good idea? or do you support the idea of waiting but just think the reasoning behind it needs to be less damaging?
Thank you both for your vulnerability! Kara, do you have any further videos about the link between eating disorders and purity culture? Punishing your body / not being allowed to trust your body.
Saying it became a false binary or rather false dichotomy was a good way to put it. And it's a problem because theres a huge huge difference between someone who has slept with 30 plus people unsafely and treats sex casually...vs someone who tested their sexual compatibility with a few people they wanted to marry, before settling down. Theres a vast difference between someone having sex with their fiance and someone having a one night stand. But according to purity culture they're the same and just always really bad...no accounting for context, or the individuals life goals.
It’s not a false binary when it comes to sin. Fornication is a sin, period. In a non Biblical context you are absolutely right but when it comes to sin, it is binary. Thank God for repentance and the forgiveness of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ!
@@LipSyncLover It's the truth as written in the Bible. If you don't believe, you don't believe. But if you do, I don't see anything wrong with my comment. I see it as incredibly hopeful to understand that there is sin in the world but there is a way out.
@@claireh8125 I believe in God. I read the Bible with a grain of salt as everyone should. And I try to emulate christ. I pay more attention to good fruit however and my actions have to bear good consequences. Waiting until marriage can yield very very bad consequences. So I tailored my dating strategy. Married now
Glad I'm not the only person with scars from this " divine movement ". And the fact that I went to a religious male only school didn't help. But I have a wonderful girlfriend who has been with me for 4 years and is understanding enough to put up with my shit. Thanks to hearing me out. 🤣
I think, after watching many of these kinds of videos, is that the main problem with the so-called “purity culture” of the 90s - and I think that your video mentions this in passing - was the complete lack of any mention of God’s grace for the fallen. That is the problem with anything “legalistic”: the discussion inevitably revolves around the obligations and duties of a “good” Christian, without any discussion of grace or mercy for those who are struggling (and we all are struggling, as there is no one who is without sin, and we all therefore need grace). That’s where the toxic shame comes from. Simply discussing law without a discussion of grace is NOT the gospel, and is therefore not a Christian message. “Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.” ~Hebrews 4:16 (NKJV)
The repercussions for me are not shame, but the missed opportunities of potential relationship with very good men along the years. Now I am 38 and single. I wish I could go back and not be so drastic in my opinions. I am not even talking about sex. I am talking about some sort of isolation which disconnected me from some aspects of life, from a sense of community. I really missed opportunities to be happy. For what??? A big fat destructive lie.
Hi guys from Australia ❤️ Didn't the males including the pastors wear purity rings? Considering the sexual misconduct at Hillsong church maybe they should too.. Your question of "can I masturbate to a white wall"? Cracked me up..I'll be careful to look at a white wall in the future😂😂 Ive subscribed!!
The irony of those who were teaching purity culture nonsense...it is rooted in Gnosticism, and the Gnostics more or less were a type of theistic Satanist as my understanding of it is they believed that the serpent was an emissary of the Demiurge in the Old Testament and through the serpent came Jesus. Maybe purity culture could be classified as a type of right hand path Satanism? As the left hand path creeps up in every religion at some point, maybe the right hand path can creep up in Satanism as well wearing "Christian" window dressing...The type of Satanism the purity culture was practicing (while NEVER realizing they were practicing it) is a polar opposite of Laveyan Satanism. Then again we find variation like that in many religions...
As much as I agree,in parts. I am still grateful I only had sex with my husband. I am too emotional and would be way more traumatized if I felt used and unappreciated. 'Freedom' used in destructive ways is harmful.
And that's what was right for you. The problem is Religious purity culture is the belief that everyone is the same and needs the same things whether they like it or not.
I'm a child of the so-called "purity culture," and I'm now happily married (celebrating 12 years this month) with a great sex life and three children. I'm so glad my wife and I waited until marriage. I'm seriously confused as to what everyone's upset about. Can someone succinctly explain to me what I'm missing: 1. What do you think purity culture actually taught (no straw-manning or mischaracterizations please)? Free free to provide some quotations from books or speakers. 2. What do you find objectively incorrect, misguided, immoral, or wrong about those teachings (and please give me more than just "I don't like rules about sex."
I am so glad you asked. As a woman, I was pulled into the church office to scold me that I led my brother in Christ to sin and lust. We had a youth group activity where we swam but had to swim separately from the boys. One of the lifeguards was male and was asked to not watch the girls. They disregarded our own safety out of fear that a man might lust after us. The message is…..we rather you drown then mislead a man to sin. Bottom line…women held the responsibility of men’s sexual sin. Then, we were supposed to submit to them?? Responsibility without authority is slavery. Purity culture led to a huge increase in vaginismus and Christian women’s lower libido.
@@heathersnyder8789 Were there any female lifeguards watching over the girls swimming? Why were you accused of leading your brother in Christ to sin and lust?
no it is about making sex look dirty and shaming people especially women for being a sexual being. nothing wrong with wanting to wait but it is a personal choice. not every human being has the same belief. sex is personal and private. it is a part of humanity and nature. Respect even when you dont agree
This brought me to tears. I'm really starting to realize how traumatized I actually am from purity culture. I feel so broken and hopeless because, like you said, the conditioning and shame goes down SO deep that it's hard to root out. I wonder how long it will take to heal from this damage.
This is so refreshing and relevant. I finally stepped away from church during COVID thinking it was all done and dusted.. but wow exactly what you're talking about. The buried SHAME. I didn't think anything about it until I started dating and just felt so ashamed over stupid things. Feeling so ashamed about having sexual desire, about wanting to be intimate. And then hating yourself for it. Thanks for opening up this discussion !
This hits hard!!! I started looking for resources for a project I'm working on on purity culture and when I found you guys I felt like you were echoing my feelings!! Love it all!! Another thing I've felt growing up in purity culture is that I am objectified just as much by christian men as by the world. And if anything it's worse because at least the world tells me that I'm pretty instead of "Yuck, cover up." I have felt that my worth is in my sexuality. Only it's that I'm too sexual. My dad literally freaked out at me when my shirt slipped down a little bit and you could see a centimeter of my cleavage. It also makes me upset that so much more pressure is put on the women than the men. Not saying I want to walk around naked, but I shouldn't have to be afraid of guys looking at me and thinking I'm beautiful
I want to thank the two of you for having this discussion. There is so much content regarding the effects of Purity Culture on women’s sexuality and relationships but almost nothing on the impact that it has had on many men. Unfortunately, while Purity Culture went mainstream beginning in the 1990s the messages were very prevalent well before then, they just were not yet neatly packaged into a marketable and profitable product for mass consumption.
I am 50 and have NEVER been able to date or have a romantic relationship (save for one brief and extremely violent relationship 30 years ago) not only because of the direct result of the messages I grew up with but also because it has fundamentally screwed up how attraction (both romantic and sexual, but especially sexual) works for me and as a consequence there has never been a woman who ever felt any attraction whatsoever for me because I can not make women feel sexually desired, nor even know who to approach since I feel no initial attraction whatsoever, because I can not focus my sexual attraction on any specific woman because of those messages and the imagery and emotions they evoke.
I was taught that ALL sexuality was evil, of the devil, and that pleasure was the proof that sex was an evil temptation. It was still sinful in marriage but at least forgivable if for procreation whereas outside of marriage sex, and even sexual thought, were portrayed as absolute unforgivable sins. I was taught that to have a sexual thought that includes another would damn not only myself but the woman as well AND (because such isn’t damaging enough) that such thoughts were equivalent to RAPING a woman since they were presumably without her permission (essentially a reworking of Matthew 5:28). I have spent more than 30 years trying to get that image and the emotions that anything to do with sexuality trigger and I have never had any luck getting rid of the results of that messaging and what it evokes! At this point it is highly improbable that I will ever be able to have a romantic relationship as even if I managed to overcome that messaging by some miracle I have literally no knowledge of how to even begin to express myself sexually in any capacity towards another person (nor any idea even how to date for that matter as I missed out on all of that growing up…and we do not exactly have a culture that is very forgiving of 50 year old men trying to figure out sexual expression should they make even a minor mistake!). Combine that with physical disability, mental illness, and myriad chronic illnesses and Complex PTSD from an abusive childhood and the harm that caused to my health and there is literally no matching partner for someone like myself. The only persons I have ever felt any romantic attraction for have all been close friends, but by then one is well and deep into the so called friend-zone and women, as a rule, do not pursue relationships with firmly entrenched friends (especially friends that have never exhibited outward sexuality up to that point) - I have a 30 year 100% rejection ratio on the friends front! I excel at becoming very close, often best friends, with women - so I am great at being “liked”, but never “loved” - but none have ever been able to even fathom the idea of a romantic relationship with someone like myself as I do not trigger the three things women desire: chemistry, passion, and butterfly feelings! And it is no fault of any of the women, I have valued their friendships immensely over the years, I blame Evangelical Fundamentalism entirely! I just wish I new why I was created to love others deeply but never to actually have that love returned. On the brighter side of things, if it were nit for unrequited love then I would know no love at all! 😉 And I do at least have the opportunity to help those I have loved find their future loves, and I am grateful for that as, more than anything, I very much wish for them to be happy, but it still hurts that I can never be that person for anyone!
But I know exactly what you mean about being at war with oneself as I have been at war with myself going back so far that even in my teens I have never seen a beautiful woman and felt any initial attraction whatsoever towards her and have never, ever, thought to myself that I wanted to have sex with her. I do very much desire sex, but I have NEVER been able to focus that desire on an actual person because that would be to “rape” her and, as someone who grew up with abuse, even the mere suggestion that I would be harming someone is a place I could never allow my mind to go. It has made for an exceptionally lonely life as an adult, but even with therapy the damage seems to have been done, sadly!
But it was very nice to actually see a man discussing this issue from his perspective as there is so very little of that online that I have found. The whole “men are monsters” message growing up doesn’t exactly help either as I have always felt like I have to, for whatever reason, protect others from myself for fear of hurting them even though in reality I am as utterly nonviolent and kind as they come. Their teachings have similarly poisoned my view of God as well and the childhood abuse only served to further reinforce all these damaging messages growing up, but I was very much taught a hateful, vengeful, judging, and wrathful God growing up - growing up believing that I had already been damned as a 12 year old child because of the abuse and inability to purge every sexual thought - and I can scarcely imagine what this “loving God” so many others speak of would be like (but I certainly wish that I knew that God)! I struggle terribly, though, with why a loving God would allow such abuses to be committed against powerless children and why he abandons such children to their fate?! Sorry, I have not been in a very good place these past several years with the return of all the memories of past abuse and Complex PTSD in full force.
Thank you for sharing. I just started therapy AGAIN (for the 4th time) because I have still not been able to get past this toxic messaging. I am terrified of emotional/physical intimacy because according to that messaging I am "the gatekeeper" or "the brake to his accelerator". I'm reading "The Great Sex Rescue" right now, and it has been so helpful in helping me process that messaging.
I wish I could smile like you guys. I’m 36, left the church 6 years ago and I still feel miserable every time I do anything related to sex.
Thank you for making this! Purity culture has made so many aspects of my life empty and sad. This is a conversation that needs to be happening!
This conversation was so refreshing for me to hear as a Millennial who grew up in the evangelical church during this movement. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on how we can change the conversation for future generations in the church (and outside of it)
Absolutely! We're releasing a video on how we begin to heal, tomorrow! We cover some of this. Hope you're doing well.
I’m now realizing, after 15 years of marriage, how damaging purity culture was to me. I don’t necessarily know what I want sexually. Because I was taught for years to never explore my sexuality. To suppress it. I feel like I almost can’t, or am not allowed, to explore my sexuality. Even though I’m 36…and even though I’m married. I still, in the back of my mind, feel like that’s “wrong.” I sometimes still get feelings of wanting to hide during sex, because I feel vulnerable & like what I am doing is bad. I am currently working on undoing the damage.
I've recently started digging back into purity culture ever since I recently got married last year to a wonderful Christian man who shares the same core beliefs as I do and this video has helped me tremendously. Its especially wonderful to see a husband and wife come together to share their stories. 💙
Purity Culture is so demeaning to women. It focuses on female purity more than dudes. It is a females fault if a male turns to sexual impurity or decides to rape her. Um... excuse me? I am so glad you two made this video for everyone. I never grew up in the purity movement....thank God, because I believe if you are physically and mentally ready for sex....go for it. No human has the right to make you feel guilty for having "feelings" that are normal and given to you by God. Never been married, have a son out of wedlock and don't care. I don't regret anything. You guys are so awesome for talking about this. God Bless you! And go in love and light!
Since the focus on Porn it switched focus on males in my opinion.
It can and does mess up
Men also. I have known two men ( brothers to one another) who suffer from distortions in their sexuality due to their parents interpretation of what should be ( well beyond the congregation culture ). The older is married but he and his wife have sex only once a month by agreement. The other is much worse, he married and refused to consummate their marriage for eight years until He became an addict and cheated on her . Leaving her feeling rejected and unloved. She then turned to the first person to come along ( a non Christian man more than twice her age who is abusive ). It is tragic.
I was in the same congregation but was not raised in THAt congregation. My wife and are are u touched by whatever happened there.
Hi Kara and Caleb, appreciate your honesty here. I’m taking some time to write this because my story is similar to yours but I’ve felt liberated and whole thru the Gospel and not thru it’s deconstruction.
I think you are touching upon several unfortunate and true misuses and abuses of how sex was talked about or not talked about within the church. In as much as we were taught to view ourselves as damaged goods, women as objects and our bodies as only bad, you are right this was either promoted ignorantly or very very very poorly.
However, while I see and have experienced the distortions of “purity culture” myself, I have to, like anyone within a particular context discern the errors and hold to what is true. Even as you are able to discern these errors yourself and yet still recognize that there is something inherently good about commitment, love for your spouse, and sex. I also will do the same based upon what Scripture says.
I don’t think a call to purity, fidelity and waiting for marriage was or is the problem in “purity culture”. These are all biblical values you would have and may still to some degree see as valuable. The problem in some forms and camps of the “purity culture” (cuz not every evangelical church was as misguided as you experienced), was what was upheld as the motivation for purity and the remedy for when we fail.
I’m obviously coming from a foundation that has “sin” as a category still. If you’ve “deconstructed” I assume sin is not a relevant category for you anymore? I don’t know.
But given the reality of what Jesus says in his Word, sin is a thing. For Jesus sin really is destructive. It’s why he came and gave his life as you know. But sin is sin not because he wants us to feel shame but because any creature made in his image innately feels shame when we fall short of representing his gloriously holy and pure character. Thus, a category of pure and impure is woven all throughout Scripture. The Bible is very binary. Shame was considered a real thing. Every human being who has ever walked the planet can relate to feeling shame, just like Adam. It’s nothing new.
This is where the purity movement went awry because the motivation to stay pure was not big enough. The goal of waiting for marriage and denying lust is too small of a goal if that is it. It created many self righteous Christians and many broken shame filled ones as you experienced.
As Christians our motivation must be for the glory of God (whatever you do, do all for the .......). Why? Because when that is the goal and standard, the self righteous are humbled by his greatness and the shame filled marvel at his grace. Jesus came to earth to both reveal the absolute impossibility of the task to be holy and pure (sermon on the mount) AND hope for all those who acknowledge it (There is therefore no condemnation......)
You felt shame because you were told to go attain to a standard too big (only God is pure), with the wrong kind of motivating fuel (remain undamaged), leaving you disillusioned and shame filled without a remedy for “damaged goods”. In as much as this is the message you imbibed i stand with you in denouncing it.
The Glory of God is the goal, his grace is the fuel and the Gospel is the remedy for our brokenness.
Caleb you mentioned feeling pain down to your bones due to how much shame you were carrying alone. While I sympathize with you regarding the sometimes poor teaching in this movement I also still hold to sin being a thing according to scripture. David said something similar to you in Psalm 32 “for when I kept silent my bones wasted away”. But he says this in contrast to what comes before this. David is a man liberated from shame for he says “Blessed is the man whose transgression is forgiven and in whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man of whom the Lord counts no iniquity.”
Shame is real and God knows how to deal with it. He covers it. He forgives it. We are made happy and blessed when our impurity is made pure, when our transgressions are declared blameless and when our sin is not counted against us. The cross is the antidote for shame. Jesus bore our shame and covered us with his righteousness.
Yes purity is valuable, but we all fall short of it but there is a way for us to live shame free. And it’s not by the erasure of sin as myth but it’s in an acknowledgement of our falling short before a gloriously good God who sent his Son for our sin so that we would not bear it. He is good. He bears sin and took upon our shame. He forgives freely.
Please do not be ashamed of him too. He really did pay it all for us. True liberation from shame comes by it being covered by Christ, not by denying the reality of the sin that caused it. Yes reject the inconsistent and unbiblical lies that were taught directly or mistakenly by this movement, but don’t reject the Savior who really did come into this work preaching repentance (Mark 1:15).
Anyways I really did appreciate your conversation on this subject as I really do agree with some of your grievances I just think there is a better antidote to the purity issue found only in Christ.
This was excellently written
Well said. I was hoping someone addressed this with truth and grace. As I was listening, I was wondering if any of their new found dispositions and conclusions were based in a deeper revelation and understanding of the Word but couldn’t hear any evidence so. Thank you for taking the time to break it down.
Wow, this has given me some insight into why I feel the need to ask all the time if there's something wrong, or why I feel like someone is always mad at me. Thanks. It's given me a lot to think about.
So so great to hear. Let us know if anything comes up for you or any questions you might have! Sending you all the love. ❤️
This hits so deep, thank you so much for talking about this!! 💕💕💕
This is so important. Thank you it helps me and so many people to heal by understanding why this is painful and damaging and hopefully helps people to find new ways to teach young people in churches about dealing in a healthy way with their natural urges and without traumatising them. It happens in evangelical communities in Germany as well. Thank you so much.!
Caleb - We met way way back when I was a closeted queer kid in the throws of evangelicalism & prior to your deconstruction. It’s so incredible to see where your journey has taken you and that you’ve found someone to be on this journey with!!! Happy to be on the other side with you! This video was super accessible and I’m excited to share it with the young & deconstructing in my life.
Hey Kate! Thanks for your kind words and yes, Kara is the best. ☺️ So so happy that you’re on the other side as well. When did we first meet? Thanks for watching and sharing. Let us know if there are other videos you think would be helpful.
17:41 is absolutely spot-on. I speak from experience. A lot of this purity lunacy comes from the traditional misinterpretation of Matthew 5: 27+28. I believe that Jesus's words in those passages were intended to prevent self-righteousness, not promote repression. Jesus also said that his yoke was a light one, and trying to block every sexual thought when I was a teenager felt like an anvil was around my neck. Great videos.
It’s awesome to see your playfulness with one another ,it’s refreshing to see with couple content creators. Authenticity breeds peace.
I’ve only just started to try and heal from the damage that purity culture has done, this video was so comforting and helpful. Thank you for putting it out in here.
Love this! After deconstructing my faith, I see more and more clearly how harmful these ideas really were to all of us.
Love the switch of conversation around sex…. How it is this wonderful connection in marriage ! Married sex isn't talked about all in the church! Make that look good, dudes- then singles will want that more! You two are the cutest. 🥰
Thank you, friend!!
I can relate to all of this. Thank you for opening the conversation!
So welcome, Andrea. Hope you’re doing well. ❤️
The problem is not the advocating for living a responsable and moral life. These are good things. The problem is the condemnation about the sexual feelings waking up in the puberty. We are expected to be like eunucks intil the wedding day. People are different and some have a stronger desire than other. In the purity culture even masturbation is claimed to be sin despite there is absolute zero support for that in the bible. Apostle Paul adviced us to marry if we cannot live restrained. He did not condemn us for the lack of self control. If we cannot live restrained during the wait for someone to marry and do not want to have sexual intercourse, the only option is to satisfy ourself.
There are truckloads of testamonies of people, especially women, who have been so damaged by the purity culture that they are unable to have a sexlife when they marry, because the shame about the sexuality caused by the purity culture.
I am personally a victim of the purity culture.
When I became a christian I initially got an unspeakable joy about to wait with sex until I find a woman to marry.
But as time went on I became more and more condemned about my sexual feelings and got severe depressions. The joy for sex with a future wife was totally destroyed.
This resulted in a sexual frustration and my sexual desire grown stronger than ever before. I became a sex addict. The purity culture is truly destructive: the result is for many the very opposite to what it's claimed to result in!
Purity culture or Christianity in general completely ruined sex and love for me. I waited 27 years for absolutely nothing.
This has F up a lot of peoples view on relationships especially males obsession with virgin girls with child/baby like traits 🤬. Down right hypocritical & double standards men have when they have been with a lot of partners grr 🤬
just to clarify because I'm curious and still a little confused, are you saying trying to force yourself to wait until marriage is not a good idea? or do you support the idea of waiting but just think the reasoning behind it needs to be less damaging?
That all depends on the individual and their situation.
Good stuff! Soooo needed!
Thanks for watching, friend!
Thank you both for your vulnerability!
Kara, do you have any further videos about the link between eating disorders and purity culture? Punishing your body / not being allowed to trust your body.
You two are an absolutely gorgeous couple both inside and out!
Saying it became a false binary or rather false dichotomy was a good way to put it. And it's a problem because theres a huge huge difference between someone who has slept with 30 plus people unsafely and treats sex casually...vs someone who tested their sexual compatibility with a few people they wanted to marry, before settling down. Theres a vast difference between someone having sex with their fiance and someone having a one night stand. But according to purity culture they're the same and just always really bad...no accounting for context, or the individuals life goals.
It’s not a false binary when it comes to sin. Fornication is a sin, period. In a non Biblical context you are absolutely right but when it comes to sin, it is binary. Thank God for repentance and the forgiveness of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ!
@@claireh8125 comments like yours are a dime a dozen. Not helping anyone and not a conversation
@@LipSyncLover It's the truth as written in the Bible. If you don't believe, you don't believe. But if you do, I don't see anything wrong with my comment. I see it as incredibly hopeful to understand that there is sin in the world but there is a way out.
@@claireh8125 I believe in God. I read the Bible with a grain of salt as everyone should. And I try to emulate christ.
I pay more attention to good fruit however and my actions have to bear good consequences. Waiting until marriage can yield very very bad consequences. So I tailored my dating strategy. Married now
Glad I'm not the only person with scars from this " divine movement ". And the fact that I went to a religious male only school didn't help. But I have a wonderful girlfriend who has been with me for 4 years and is understanding enough to put up with my shit. Thanks to hearing me out. 🤣
I think, after watching many of these kinds of videos, is that the main problem with the so-called “purity culture” of the 90s - and I think that your video mentions this in passing - was the complete lack of any mention of God’s grace for the fallen. That is the problem with anything “legalistic”: the discussion inevitably revolves around the obligations and duties of a “good” Christian, without any discussion of grace or mercy for those who are struggling (and we all are struggling, as there is no one who is without sin, and we all therefore need grace). That’s where the toxic shame comes from. Simply discussing law without a discussion of grace is NOT the gospel, and is therefore not a Christian message.
“Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
~Hebrews 4:16 (NKJV)
I want a part 2!! Thoughts on sex and sexuality now? After deconstructing Christianity and purity culture.
Great idea! We'll definitely add this to our list. Let us know if you have specific questions! We would love to hear them. Thanks for watching. :)
The repercussions for me are not shame, but the missed opportunities of potential relationship with very good men along the years. Now I am 38 and single. I wish I could go back and not be so drastic in my opinions. I am not even talking about sex. I am talking about some sort of isolation which disconnected me from some aspects of life, from a sense of community. I really missed opportunities to be happy. For what??? A big fat destructive lie.
I appreciate your video
Hi guys from Australia ❤️ Didn't the males including the pastors wear purity rings? Considering the sexual misconduct at Hillsong church maybe they should too..
Your question of "can I masturbate to a white wall"? Cracked me up..I'll be careful to look at a white wall in the future😂😂 Ive subscribed!!
I get where you are coming from, but, dont you believe that certain things are absolutely wrong? And where do you get that standard from?
Does this lead to radicalism and violence?
The irony of those who were teaching purity culture nonsense...it is rooted in Gnosticism, and the Gnostics more or less were a type of theistic Satanist as my understanding of it is they believed that the serpent was an emissary of the Demiurge in the Old Testament and through the serpent came Jesus. Maybe purity culture could be classified as a type of right hand path Satanism? As the left hand path creeps up in every religion at some point, maybe the right hand path can creep up in Satanism as well wearing "Christian" window dressing...The type of Satanism the purity culture was practicing (while NEVER realizing they were practicing it) is a polar opposite of Laveyan Satanism. Then again we find variation like that in many religions...
As much as I agree,in parts. I am still grateful I only had sex with my husband. I am too emotional and would be way more traumatized if I felt used and unappreciated. 'Freedom' used in destructive ways is harmful.
And that's what was right for you. The problem is Religious purity culture is the belief that everyone is the same and needs the same things whether they like it or not.
I'm a child of the so-called "purity culture," and I'm now happily married (celebrating 12 years this month) with a great sex life and three children. I'm so glad my wife and I waited until marriage. I'm seriously confused as to what everyone's upset about. Can someone succinctly explain to me what I'm missing:
1. What do you think purity culture actually taught (no straw-manning or mischaracterizations please)? Free free to provide some quotations from books or speakers.
2. What do you find objectively incorrect, misguided, immoral, or wrong about those teachings (and please give me more than just "I don't like rules about sex."
I am so glad you asked. As a woman, I was pulled into the church office to scold me that I led my brother in Christ to sin and lust. We had a youth group activity where we swam but had to swim separately from the boys. One of the lifeguards was male and was asked to not watch the girls. They disregarded our own safety out of fear that a man might lust after us. The message is…..we rather you drown then mislead a man to sin. Bottom line…women held the responsibility of men’s sexual sin. Then, we were supposed to submit to them?? Responsibility without authority is slavery. Purity culture led to a huge increase in vaginismus and Christian women’s lower libido.
@@heathersnyder8789 Were there any female lifeguards watching over the girls swimming?
Why were you accused of leading your brother in Christ to sin and lust?
It ruined me…
Sorry to hear that. Hope your doing well these days 😄
You and me baby ain't nothing but mammals. So let's do it how they do on the discovery channel. - I forget the singer.
So sexual sin is no longer a problem its now purity that's a problem. We are in the end times
no it is about making sex look dirty and shaming people especially women for being a sexual being. nothing wrong with wanting to wait but it is a personal choice. not every human being has the same belief. sex is personal and private. it is a part of humanity and nature. Respect even when you dont agree