I was stuck with conventional training, and I gave this approach a shot. Say what you want, but I broke through the plateau like never before. I didn't do the ideal rutine, because the rest days seemed too much for me. I did another of his routines, wich was chest & back, rest 2 days, shoulders and arms, rest 2 days, and legs. And I broke the plateau and built muscle.
4 months later You broke the dream and woke up to reality and found that " Mike is a roid headed juiced up bodybuilder and his training principles suck"💀
I was training like this and I did small gains, however I respond better to much work and higher volume, my best gains were after 2 years from my start of training. I switched from like 9-12 sets sets for muscle to around 24 sets.
I took Mentzers routine , trained till failure workout 2 body groups , high intensity . I was constantly sore the next day . I takes 3/4 days to fully recover sometime 2 days . I hit the gym when I am not sore . More than 4 days is way to long for me. I saw improvements in 6months than I did for 2years of my old workout routine . I actually look forward to go the gym . I feel like the positive motivation improves your workout sessions . The 2/3 day rest periods are what makes me eager to go back the gym a train till failure.
@@pranavkumar9514 the becase it isolates the lats amd the underhand pulldown is kinda a compound movement and ending with deadlift because it is very taxing on the cns hence more growth... current scientific litrature shows that back musculature is not as simple as rest even hlf reps on heavy single arm rows can generate growth so i think 3 exercise for back is justified and at the end its just 3 sets also deadlift target the lower back for the christmas treee appearance
I used to train 6 days a week, but now I've reduced it to just 1 or 2 days per week, and I've seen significant improvements in all of my PRs. Don't listen to the advice of those who have never tried heavy duty. Mike, in his seminars, provides valuable explanations for the reasons behind this success. He also reminds us that there's more to life than just focusing on the gym, that's why almost all his students just don't watch yt gym videos all day.
I was listening to see if he even tried the program... His advice is based on his biased experience and not actual experience. What would it hurt to take three months and just see what happens? I am planning to start this program. As a father of 5 and running two businesses, this approach gets me excited. :)
Just improving numbers is not enough to support the mentzer way of training bc it literally makes sense you are better rested you hit bigger numbers. But bigger numbers don't equal bigger muscles at least not short term. The question is how good is it for hypertrophy and of course not being on drugs
61, and absolutely LOVE HIT ! I never ever saw gains doing volume like I get with HIT. And, I have a life outside the gym ! Why in the world would someone spend 20 hours in the gym every week if they could EVEN GET CLOSE to the same results doing 2 hours a week ?….let alone get superior results. They always point to Jones, Mentzer, and Yates….but there is a huge army of people out there that LOVE HIT, me being one. I would never go back to volume, but that’s me. Find what works for you.
@@jakovbekavac6269 Well I will tell you. I started training aged 14 in 1978. I weighed 135lbs at 5 7". After 25 years of training 4 times a week. The typical volume. I had a 44 inch chest. And 15.25 inch arms 32 inch waist. And weighed 164lbs. I thought as a natural that was my lot. I had reached my genetic limit for size. In 2003 I was given HEAVY DUTY II mind and body. Read it. And even before I started the consolidation program. I knew it all made sense. Over the next year I made progress and after one year. My chest was 48.5 inches arms 17 inches and I weighed 185lbs at 5 7.5. All lifts went up in reps and eventually poundages virtually EVERY WORKOUT. And when I stalled. I inserted more rest days and got new highs. Everything Mike said would happen came to life in my training. Unbeknownst to me. I had been overtraining for DECADES. That's why my body would give me no more. Once I reined in the volume and frequency. And trained to failure on the working SET BOOM. Results. And I will revere Mentzer for life for is relentless push to get the truth about training for the average natural out here. All the others continue to LIE to sell programs. And supplements.
I’m running Mike’s principles in my workout program. Since I started about 6 months ago, I’ve seen great results. I wish I knew about it sooner. When I did the volume training I was always feelings beat up, sore, and fatigued all the time. With the higher intensity and additional rest days, I am seeing real results. It takes mental fortitude to train to failure, for me it’s the only way to workout now.
"The volume training" is a strawman if there ever was one. If you were beat up, sore and fatigued, you definitely needed to deload, WHATEVER your training was like. Your statement in itself begs a question. Why does your "higher intensity" require extra rest days, if "volume" was the cause of your issues? Because "intensity" is *A* primary cause of needing more rest. You can walk for miles, then repeat the next day, for weeks without issue. Despite the volume. Try doing your single rep maximum deadlift, every day, for weeks. You can't. DESPITE the fact that you are doing low volume and high intensity. So clearly, "volume" is not the primary driver of overtraining. It is a combination of SOME volume, and SOME intensity that both 1. Causes results and 2. Causes one to overtrain. Singling out one factor as being the ONLY or even *the* PRIMARY cause of results OR overtraining is a fallacy of extension.
@@rkonjr64I had the same exact experience as the commenter . I did Deload with no productive results. Within about 2/3 weeks I was back again to feeling tired and run down all the time with progress stalling. Mikes program has been creating fantastic results
1. I've done it, and likely know more about it than you. 2. Arthur Jones understood deloads and in fact used them to try to EVIDENCE his product...and he used the example with "volume" trainers. I'm certain you know what I am referring to. 3. Dorian Yates deloads. Why? 4. Like many of the people who do it, I *wish* it worked as well as "conventional" training. Why? Because who doesn't want to work out for 20 min 3x a week and not only get "as good", but THE BEST results? Programming is easy. There are very few variables-it takes little thought since everything is so cut and dried.
@@MrMasterDebate Interesting that Arthur Jones understood deloading, and Yates deloads. Most people have little idea how to implement one, and your specific results don't point the non-effectiveness of deloads, it points to poor programming. In the sports where you can't bullshit results, where they aren't subjective-strength sports-deloads are used as part of periodization by essentially everyone. So everyone else is wrong?
Mike also said, ''Every bodybuilding program is essentially a strength program.'' His advice was to always evaluate workouts based on progression. Why most people cannot benefit from Mike's training routines is because they don't know what absolute failure is. If you reach absolute failure with one set, and if you rest sufficiently, you will be able to lift more weight and/or perform more reps on the given exercise quicker.
HIT is an ego thing. I used to be like it. You think you're the only person in the gym who does sets to failure, you need less volume and and frequency etc. Volume (of sets with sufficient intensity) is the key driver of muscle growth for your average person. Most guys in the gym probably train too hard on most sets and then usually have one or two exercises they do a bit of junk volume. And one or two exercises they skip very often. Like with every other habit, activity, hobby etc, you need to put the time in (high volume with decent intensity, consistently). People always strawman high volume by talking about 30 sets per week and 10 exercises per session blah blah. Honestly HIT training only helps beginners who have some newbie gains but then they plateau and can never progress. Adding in more volume is the easiest, most consistent way to progress. You wouldn't tell someone doing any other hobby to do less of it, more infrequently.
Mike Mentzer was misunderstood! His methods accurately summarized above work. I’m doing it! Im stronger every time I go back to the gym. instead of killing myself 6days like I used to and not getting the right results
@@unbabunga229you’re wrong. I personally did a structured 5 month H.I.T. program. I am not hyperbolizing when i say this but i made progress EVERY(yes every) single workout session. The progress was small every session either just one rep more or with slighlty better form, but over consistent 5 months of training it adds up. I never hit a plateau, something that is bound to always happen with your classical volume workouts after a while.
What i learned from Mike Mentzer is not to be afraid of having "too much rest" days between Workouts. In my experience Muscles tend not to go away after a week not being trained, but my Body felt so much more energized and strong once i started to train each muscle only once a week. I know such a training split is frowned upon these days, but my body responded very well to this increased recovery time. So much in fact, that i got (after 25 years of training) stronger that i was ever bevore and my muscles, tendon and nervous system had finally enough time to grow and keep up with that progression and i do not feel fatigued anymore, like i did for years. I agree that Mentzers later workouts where too extreme to be useful for an average joe Bodybuilder. I train harder that i did when i was training every muscle 2 or 3 times a week, but not that hard like Mentzer recommended. I only wish that i knew all that 25 years ago.
Bro, Mike always made it known that adding weight was extremely paramount. He also showed us that in order to reach failure it actually took MORE WEIGHT each session. His routines created more strength and more size. He emphasised that a natural body needs more time, not only to recover, but then to grow. All social media is full of PED taking frauds who need 25% of the recovery time of naturals. Mikes HIT routine changed my life. I get stronger every week and I can actually see the difference it makes to me.
This is a good take on the subject. I've taken a lot of pieces of Mentzer's program and implemented into my own... The crazy part is everyone who criticizes the program hasn't actually committed to it and failed to see results. Would be a much more fair assessment if one tried it for 2 months and made comments afterwards.
The idea of pre exhaustion was not to hit failure twice. The idea was to reach failure isolating one large muscle that was hard to hit to failure through a compound exercise. Example: hit a set till failure of leg extensions (targeting the quads) then super set immediately to a leg press (to target all the legs muscles including the quads) If you do only leg presses, smaller muscles will reach failure before you reach failure with the quads.
Also, Mike repeats many times that progress in reps, loads, and overall time is what you should aim for to know by data that you are progressing. Reaching failure is a means to a end, strength/growth stimulation, reaching failure is not the target
Now that you have explained it, damn! Very well thought out by Mike. Isolating a target muscle and reaching failure with a compound exercise is something i have never thought of.
Both sets are done to failure though, at least in the HIT version of pre-ex. Leg Extension to failure (pre-x quads), Leg Press to failure (theoretically because of quads vs other muscles).
I do very slow reps to failure. So slow, that pull ups have me beat in 3 reps Came to this after a 2 year injury ( no training ) and 8 months of rehabilitation. Suffice to say, the slow method works for me. Not going back to the way I trained before. Good luck to you all in finding out what works for YOU. Thank you for uploading and sharing.
@@AttainTheGrainrows can be substituted for deadlift. This guy in the video has no clue what he’s talking about. Get mentzer’s book (can get a free pdf) and learn for urself. HIT is about a system of principles, guided by logic. Mentzer would be disappointed to see people copy and paste his programs.
I was like Tom Platz trying to do Arnold’s high volume/higher frequency routine 😂.I wasn’t getting smaller but wasn’t getting bigger either.Than meet some experienced body builders and they told me to look into Mike and Dorians style of training especially being a natural at the time.I followed a mix of both and found it worked better for me to gain mass.While the traditional bodybuilders workout routine of working out 5 to 6 days a week.Just worked better for me in endurance and muscle definition.
I've tried the train to failure method. Had great pumps and looked great at the end, but always ended up stringy and gaining no size. Now I use Mike Isratel's principle of "stimulate, don't annihilate". I keep my workouts to 5 sets, two exercises per muscle group per workout and I feel much better.
@@gregpettis1113 um… it is called allowing the number of reps you can get to drop off or reducing the weight 5%-15% and doing as many reps as possible each set
I was lost for about 2 years throwing weight around, not really knowing what I was doing and got some results. I tried Mike's training program for 2 weeks training every 4 days. It actually helped me guage how much my body can actually handle. I learned I wasn't training hard enough. I train 4 days a week now with a way better split that works for me. Also taught me that 6 to 8 rep range is my sweet spot for gains.👍
the ideal program was designed for natural lifters, and the rest of 4 days is valid if you train to true failure. As Mike mentioned one set has 3-mini sets with failure. First you fail the concentric, then the static and than the negative. So I see one set as three when I am training, and when you failed on all 3, trust me your muscle group targeted are fucking toast. My gains has exploded at a age of 35 doing this instead of the 4-5 day bro split, and I have more time to other things, I actually is hyped to go to the gym since there been so many days since last time. Only thing is that you probably burn less calories over a week, so I implemented more low impact cardio or some kettlebell work for active rest days to keep in activity.
I've started HIT after doing full body 3 days a week. I tried HIT because my sessions were becoming too long resulting in my body become exhausted. After attempting HIT with Mike's guidance from his books i have come to the conclusion that I love HIT. It makes sense to me and it's the most fundamental way for my body to grow muscle. I dont appreciate some individuals always saying Mike Mentzers' way is incorrect. For some it may be. But for an individual to bash another individual for enjoying Mike's perspective behind weightlifting then benefiting from HIT is absurd to me. There are some things I may not agree with Mentzer about but that's the beauty of weightlifting and learning from others. Compile what you enjoy and what keeps you healthy and strong. Mentally and physically.
so far I have done 4 cycles of Mentzer training. I have added on day 1 lat pullover superset with lat pulldowns and on day 2 leg curls. I am training once every 3 days. For now the strenght gains are steady and I look bigger. It is very physically demanding and psychologically challenging, in fact from now on I will start resting 4 days instead of 3. For sure if you have a busy routine you should give a shot to this workout, but a training partner is essential.
Hey Pete. Love your content thank you. I’ve always considered myself a hard gainer & at age 49 I’ve tried a lot of programs. I’ve ran this program for the last 6 months & to my amazement it worked really well. I tweaked it a bit by adding a shoulder press on shoulder day & on one of the leg days doing high incline Arnold press. I also added BB rows on the other leg day & did squats instead of leg pressing because I train at home. I trained every 4th day. I kept a detailed diary & I made more progress in strength & size than I ever have. I tried this style of training cause I was ‘time poor’. I am very surprised & pleased with my results. I do push myself extremely hard though & found I must just need the extra recovery. Thought I’d share
Where HIT works, is when people make their workout a marathon, turning it into an aerobic workout. As Mentzer says, musclebuilding is anaerobic, so the goal is all out effort in a short period. Also, most focus on the sets and reps they're GOING to do, not what they are currently doing, so people dont push themselves enough. I'm doing a HIT style workout now, and I'm shocked at just how many reps I can do at a certain weight, that I didnt think possible previously. I will switch back to a higher volume style after a couple months and see how I feel, but right now, I feel HIT and the minimum 48 hours rest between workouts, is really packing on good size and strength
Tried the ideal routine with 3 days off. Just got fat. Now doing his A B routine but made it a PPL by dividing the A workout into two workouts, one day off between workouts. Will say that the weight I’m pushing increases dramatically every workout and I’ve never had that happen to this degree. Injury free as well. Will change it up when I plateau. Agree with the video.
@PeterKhatcherian I once trained *beyond* failure. I was sitting on a machine lifting weight straight up and above my head and went to failure. At failure I continued to try to lift, but could not lift it to apex. I had the thought of seeing if I could push beyond failure, so without easing up I just continued to try to lift the weight, having not lowered it. I kid you not. I continued there for roughly 2 minutes, unable to lift, yet refusing to lower it. It was really hard, but at about the 2 minute point, suddenly I was lifting it. When I suddenly was able to push it to the top, and then got up, I experienced a happiness and excitement way better than normal good feelings after a solid workout. I was so excited! I had proven that pushing beyond failure was possible.
Mike's advice gets a bad wrap because of the ludacris 'consolidation routine' but I think if you follow his earlier advice, ie. train with intensity, fewer reps and a focus on recovery it would do most people wonders
This is basically what I'm trying to do now. No way will I go back to doubling up in a week. Always saw my best results going to failure and drop sets. I'm giving this one set thing a try, but I'm turning it to a dropset. This allowed me to move up on weights immediately. I love how much time I can save... honestly if I can still grow, even if slower, I'm happy.
I think Mike was extremely advanced when he did that program. He might have been near or at his natural genetic potential at that point already. It probably wouldn't work for most people, especially beginner or intermediate lifters. I think I like your way a little bit better. I think it has worked for all levels. Great video.
He was on huge amounts of steroids, that's where he was at. PEDs can elevate protein synthesis up to 14 days. And it didn't matter what program you do, on drugs you'll grow big.
Mike didn't do the ideal routine program. He was already retired then and was training hundreds of clients and that's when he realised how different people and bodies react to training and optimal recovery times for growth
Peter's a lot more expert than I am, but taking some Mentzer ideas works really well for me. I still visit the gym every other day, but for each exercise I've (1) reduced from 3 sets to 1 (2) reduced the weight (3) introduced a big negative component (lowering the weight slowly). I now no longer have to force myself to the gym, my form is better (negative exercise almost forces good form), and I'm still making gains on the same exercises. I also have trouble getting my muscles sore because I tend to fail mentally before failing physically - and negative exercise helps with that. My rule: keep what works, discard what doesn't.
Im currently on the ideal routine, with a few tweeks. Fantastic way to train as a natty. A time saver and getting stronger! Quite a few H.I.T heavy duty content creators like Jay Vincent, and John Heart break down this style of training even further. The heavy duty college channel is also run by John Little himself, plenty of Mike Mentzer's lectures their. Mike Mentzer H.I.T training is reaching popularity and growing within these past few months, H.I.T lives on! FYI John Heart was a pro competitor and natural, trained by Mentzer himself just like Dorian Yates.
Thank you for your opinion Peter. I agree with you. I've been doing Mike's program for over 5 months now and changed a few things along the way. For example after 1 month I stopped doing the super sets, because it was too much for me. Flies to failure with incline presses right after again to failure seemed a good way to injure myself. So I do them with rests inbeteween. I added some exercises for a little more volume aswell, while ncreasing the frequency to about 3 workouts a week and it works perfectly for me. As Mike said listen to your body and all is fine. Going to failure was never an issue for me, because I didn't take it as the goal as u stated. The goal should always be to add weight and/or reps, while doing the reps in a clean fashion, until your muscles give up or your technique is suffering. Which Mike is advocating too.
I do mike’s split but I work out every 3rd day and I do cardio 2 times a week in between, I follow mike’s advice on cardio only 30 minutes each session. But I have made better gains with this Hit program than I did with Schwarzenegger‘s. I mostly wanted to try it because with my new school/work schedule I don’t have as much time to go to the gym and this so far has been the perfect program for me.
I started on bro split, after 3 years I had no more progress, so I switched to ppl, and had some gains, but very little. Last semester I adapted a HIT-based workout that I've been doing until then. It consists of 2 workouts (Push and Pull), where I can train all the main muscles twice a week, for a total of 8 weekly series for each part. This definitely took me from a level that seemed impossible to overcome. I'm making similar progress to when I was a beginner. Thanks for the video!
Actually nice to hear this. I do the same. Whatever i did last week, I’ll aim to add 1 extra rep. Once I hit 12 reps across all 3 sets of whatever I’m doing, I’ll add more weight and start again at 8 reps, building those reps up slowly over time until I’m hitting 12 reps again.
I agree, I think Mike's frequency isnt enough for me. I like John Meadows 3 working sets with 1 to failure, where you can't complete another rep with proper technique. This training style and always trying to beat the log book is best for me. Getting 1 more rep, adding 5 pounds or breaking a PR on isolation like 21 hammer curls isntead of 20. One new PR each session is the goal no matter the exercise. It is easy because if i very the rep ranges and weight I am bound to hit a new PR somewhere that day. Those plus 1's add up.
May sound cliche, but I think the ideal for most people is somewhere in between the extremes of one end of the spectrum like Arnold's infinity volume approach, and Mentzer's high intensity, low volume approach.
My friend, HIT pops up every few years, as the "latest thing". Why? It sounds good, is a logical argument (based on a false premise) and is "more for less".
3 weeks on Mike's program and I'm 56 years old,,im a BK amputee along with other injuries over the years but looking to stay strong as i age been training on and off for years working out 5 days week but now only 2 days a week and let me tell you,,if I didn't have injury over the years I'd be a beast but still overall for example my barbell row from the floor went from 205lbs to 225lb rows just in a few weeks,,along with all other lifts 10 to 15lb increases across the board on every thing,,Mike's program works and even with injury from past that haunt me now and then with pain during training has diminished due to longer resting so ,Mike definitely knew what he was talking about,,I wish I knew this type training years back but I always thought train more for results but it's opposite,,train less for better results.
One benefit i got from mentzers program was that i would want to go to the gym. Because naturally humans want things they can’t have and i couldn’t go to the gym for 3 days straight because they were rest days so i would be wanting to go but couldn’t. So when the day to go would come i would be so ready.
Completely get what you’re saying, but if your scenario about the two gentlemen, who started out at the same level doing two different programs. My opinion, arguably if you were able to obtain the same outcome is much less work I personally find a superior.
Nice overview and commentary. I am with you on weight progression or rep progression ( no matter how small ) vs " failure" because I think very few people will actually really train to failure. I also think Mike's failure training was build around the use of nautilus or other machines that fixed him in to place. furthermore, having a training partner to help you force out those last reps. Alone, very few people are going to hit failure or be able to control slow reps with dumbells flyes vs a pec dec for example. I am seeing good results in my 40's working out twice a week though. So his ideas on frequency make sense to me.
I have been using this for a while.. I cant keep training 5-6 days a week. I feel burnt out. Been lifting for 13-14 years.. Now taking a more "shorter" training works for me..
Mike talked about progressive overload in the book "High intensity training the mike mentzer way" failure from one week to the next should be more reps with the same weight or more weight with less reps but in the target range. He also talks a great deal about how different people recover differently from stress, hence the 4-7 day break as a basic guideline with a strong recommendation to try different rest periods until you hit whats optimal for you meaning you can still progress with weights or reps or both. I do a standard 3 day a week with the ideal routine, works great but a far cry from the 4 day rest period he recommended as a general guideline. I wonder if diet and being a far more manual labor intensive society had influence on the 4 day break since MPS takes 24-72 hrs.
The key is figuring out the best way to consistently make the progress to reach your goals..after 55 years i am still mixing things up a bit..most important is to prevent injuries for me at 64 now..i maintain a fairly lean 245 lbs at 6'...i do not use trt etc...my last blood test i was 200 ...not sure what my free t levels are...i can only say at certain times i feel as good as i did when i was 20...😊
Mate … very very sensible words. Having personally met mike Mentzer and watched him train, i immediately dropped my multiple set regime and for the first time in over a decade began to make progress. But as you have pointed out here towards the end he started to get a bit extreme. At 64 years of age i am still making some of the best gains of my life using just 2 sets per exercise and focusing on progression within a 12 week strength cycle. Just train the exact split that he outlined and you have shown here but with just 3 full days between workouts where i complete 45 mins of zone 2 recovery training either in the pool or on an exercise cycle. Yours are VERY wise words indeed.
In my opinion, the most important principle Mike was trying to convey was that people who dont respond well to training (gaining muscle at a fast rate, capacity for lots of mass gain over time) just need way more rest than they are currently getting. Im not sure anyone agrees with 7 days rest but atleast 2 days between workouts for the slow responders (who are really slow recover-ers and therefore don't see the growth process as quickly as some) instead of only 1 or 2 rest days per week. Tho guys who arent totally biased toward hit and who are honest will say something like "if traditional volume training is producing results flr you, then don't fix it. But if you've been training to failure for years and have seen little to no results, its likely your body needs far more recovery time than the guys who can go in the gym and do almost anything and see great results. Its not that HIT is better, but simply that its better for SOME. Just likely volume training or power lifting or any method of training. I personally think the reason you dont see any HIT champions is because 1) it takes insane genetics to be Mr. Olympia and if you have great genetics then you dont need HIT, and 2) it takes drugs to be Mr. Olympia, and if you're on gear then you definitely don't need the recovery time that HIT advocates for. In short, champions can train much more often with much more volume and see great results. People with less-than-optimal genetics can greatly benefit from the 2 biggest hit principals which are train hard and rest more. Just food for thought.
HIT is BETTER. Some simply don’t need it because , due to genetics they can recover and grow from anything. There are countless stories of people who made ZERO gains off traditional training methods, that blew up from HIT. There’s also stories of people with great genetics that made even better gains than before off it. Just taking a look at any comments section about HIT, you can see tons of people that speak highly of it.
Also the whole “No champions are made with HIT” is BS. Dorian Yates, won 6x Mr.Olympia and created the mass monster era trained HIT. But somehow everyone that talks down on HIT just conveniently forgets about him.
HIT is extremely misunderstood. If you don't take the time to understand the concept then of course it sounds stupid. Once you listen and understand, it makes more sense than any other training method. Not because of the single set, but because of the increased recovery time. If you want to do 3 sets then fine but decreasing frequency is the magic bullet.
Just to spread awareness this isn’t really it. Go watch Mike mentzer videos on UA-cam, there’s a specific channel dedicated to his plans and understanding of it. It’s slow paced reps to failure, if you’re failing in the range of 6-10 reps you’re doing something right.
If people want to take the low-volume and high-intensity approach, they should look into Mike Mentzer's early training methods (late 70s and early 80s) or Dorian Yates's style of training.
Got my chest from 44 inches to 48.5. My arms from 15 inches to 17 at 5 7.5 tall, doing Mike mentzers HIT in 1 year. Volume wasnt working for me. So I wont hear a bad word said about HIT. For some like me that minimal training is required. We need LOTS of rest..
I recently started incorporating one of Mike's principles of taking my 1 set to concentric failure, and than go to eccentric failure 3-4 times with rest pause reps (on exercises that is possible and safe). Did that for example for his leg workout and never felt that kind of immediate post workout weakness. My legs were fried and could barely walk lol. The taxing on the nervous system is very noticable, 1-2 days after a workout you feel like you've been hit by a truck in a sense of general weakness. I understand why he would advocate for longer rests between workouts, because we cant all recover from that huge brief stress in the same rate, but i guess you have to know where to draw the line to dont go to the extremes. What i was wondering, is there any benefit of doing long, lets say 15-20 second eccentric reps for hypertrophy at the end of your set to reach failure like he advocated?
@@perjetskies5122 Yes they are taxing on the body more than concentric and static because you push your body on the bodys strongest frontier so to speak. It makes sense to have to recover more from it but it makes up for it for stimulating muscle growth the best. It works for me because i workout only 2 to maybe 3 times a week. If I wanted to train 5-6 times a week I would cut the intensity way down, but I was always a fan of taking 1 giant step then doing 3-4 small ones lol. It all comes down to how you want to train. The biggest thing i realized in my recovery days, is I am way weaker until I recover then when i used to train the usual volume way without even knowing what failure was. So i get your point, there is defininitely some drawbacks to it.
It was the program that allowed me to put on most of my muscle. I’ve revisited it recently. This program is basically an upper lower program and you could take more like 1-2 days off between workouts (although Mike would not agree). The question for you (and others) and others with focus on progression is what are you training for? It sounds like sarcoplasmic hypertrophy mixed with practicing lifting a heavy weight. The myocytic androgen receptor controls the strength but NOT the mass of the limb muscle. The progression you are talking about is just chemical strength and how the body adapts.
Leading up to pre exhaust you begin using secondary muscles...for example bis and tris...so you are actually working out muscles more than once during this four part cycle.
Veeeery interesting idea! Me (57 yo, ex weightlifter doing some BB now - with some oly lifts and assistance work): as my recovery ability no longer is what it used to be, I tried Mentzer's Ideas, but with some tweaks, because... well I always was more "weight/reps", not _hypertrophy_ oriented. Take this as valuable anecdotal experience: - Made it *2* sets, to failure, not always with pre-exhaustion - and that pre-exhaustion also not to absolute failure. - ( *A* ) Rested 2-3 days then ( *B* ): mon (A) thu (B) sat (A) mon (B) thu (A) sat (B) repeat. Same workout every 5 days: --- legs + chest and triceps on *A* : --------- front squats, standing calf raises with the bar on my front rack: 3-4 sets, BB's (not weightlifters' ) standard progression, from 12 to about 7-8 reps, so *not* following "heavy duty" at all; --------- dumbbell flies SSW (superset with) barbell incline bench for pecs, standing barbell triceps skull crushers SSW weighted dips for triceps (but the dips at the end were actually for both, obviously, having exhausted the pecs on the 1st exercise) --- shoulders, upper back, biceps on *B* (no lower back, being an ex weightlifter I'm already strong there): --------- lateral raises to failure SSW push press to failure for shoulders (anterior, middle); weighted chin-ups for rear delts, upper back then biceps: standing barbell curls, to failure, again superset (!) with some bodyweight pull-ups (the lats help more, there, the idea was to "post-exhaust" the biceps) Well, what happened? could only maintain this routine for *3* *weeks* before catching all sorts of pain in muscles and tendons, but - amazingly enough - not the joints🤣🤣🤣🤣 . I guess perhaps Mentzer was right on this: ONE set to failure is just fine; I did too much (for my old age) !?!?
I agree about not being a fan of pre-exhaustion , but to do a few sets of the actual workout your doing ( bench etc ) before going all out on said exercise.
I have run this program It is extremely taxing on your central nervous system. However, your strength goes through the roof. You never hit a plateau or at least I never did. I still run it every once in a while, but I do more of a Dorian Yates style couple to three warm-up sets and drop into one super heavy set failure . The pre-exhaustion before you do your compound set is magic. I don’t know what it is about it but man does it kick your ass
I’ve been doing HIT and am very interested in this type of training. I used to do more cardio as I was in the military and I loved more HIIT and hill reps etc over long distance running. When my knees went I turned to weight lifting. Always lifted weights but it was more strength circuits. I turned to the usual high volume programs Arnold splits, PPLetc recorded all my workouts for years. My body basically didn’t get anywhere with high volume training 5-6 days a week was too much. I started reading about HIT and was more interested in Dorian Yates. I also started reading about Mr America Heart who was a natural bodybuilder who based most of his training around HIT. He says he used to do Dorian’s style in the off season and when it came to compete, dieting etc he would switch to Mentzers training. Sort of makes sense. If you are into HIT tho I don’t think there is anyone better to teach you the best ways of training HIT so look up Mr America Heart of yous are interested. I have had my best results in years of doing HIT but Dorian’s program not Mentzers.
I have to agree. I don't think pre-exhausting is effective nor is it necessary. Think of your workout as having an "energy meter." If you're always pre-exhausting, your energy will be zapped before you actually start the working set. This would make the progression inconsistent because you could actually get more stimulus from multiple working set, but instead, you chose to pre-exhaust into an unnecessary amount of fatigue
Something that people seem to forget when it comes to this sort of programming is that you should still warm up the muscle as much as physically possible without fatiguing yourself. Never attempt what Mike preaches while going in cold
The overall video as well as the conclusion I agree with. But in the instance where you discussed the two people of same strength and size using failure and not. The indicator of which is more successful would be an either or. More strength or more muscle size? You will get more of one than the other on average. In this instance I would say muscle size at less fatigue would be the better overall decision maker. If pre-exhaustion before squats allows me to get more activation from quads at a lower CNS fatigue will in a caloric deficit why not? If I was in a surplus it may be more beneficial and less risk at that time for me to then go heavier on squats at same or lower reps. This is all while regardless of the decision maintaining high intensity and good form. Mile mentzer and Dorian had it right with maintaining quality but I think someone like Tom platz focused more on volume and quality than the weight itself. He has mentioned it multiple times that the weight will come with the reps. In powerlifting muscle size is a bi-product of lifting heavier and heavier. In bodybuilding strength is a by product of mainly muscle growth. If bodybuilding is the goal. As long as nutrition and sleep are there it should be how can I maintain the lost CNS and delayed muscle soreness to allow me to return back to that muscle group at the scheduled time. Progressive overload is not always more weight but maybe more volume. Ex’s: drop sets, pause sets, higher reps less weight, partials, assisted reps. Sometimes the weight on the bar does not need to go up in weight but needs to move forward in the overall reps within sets as is. Interested in the discussion that may happen below on training scheduling.
Hey bro, great video as usual. I follow more of Dorian’s blood and guts training style where he did two sets to failure. I would love to see a breakdown of 80s bodybuilder Johnny Fuller crazy high volume training and his diet. He’s a very underrated old school bodybuilder who had a fantastic physique. Keep pumping out that content
There isn’t a one size fits all, the question is are you a walk by faith individual or spoon fed, spoon fed is ok in the beginning, but eventually you have to create your own personal program that creates the right stimulus for YOU based on your lifestyle etc. Key is make sure you’re enjoying the journey!
I have been doing Mentzer’s routine for three months now. I train twice a week, usually on Monday and Friday. I tweaked the program a bit and the gains have been steady. I add at least 1 or 2 reps at every workout. However, I would not advise it for a novice, as the volume is too low to learn proper technique.
Well mikes reasoning for failure was because it puts the body under a level of stress that the body would need to adapt to it and how would it adapt to it? Add muscle.
I don’t go to complete failure but near failure on 3 sets per body part 3 times a week so far I’m liking it and feel it and I like this way of lifting also I am a beginner too so idk jack and jus fyi
Every one is different train the way you know what works for you,that's the problem with bodybuilding every one says this way works or another, do what you know works for you period quit listening to people and listen to your body period
Actually, you pre-exhaust with the second exercise first. So for chest it's, warm up x2 incline Smith machine, then flyers supersetting with incline Smith machine. Mike's own words.
It's not the program that matters, its the principles of HIT that you can apply to any style of training. Workouts dhould be breife, infrequent, with lower volume and high levels of effort, allowing for adequate recovery between workouts. Sets intensity and recovery will vary between individuals. At 48 I can only train each bodypart once a week regardless if thats a splut or full body routine. At 25 I teained 6 days a week with ridiculous amounts of volume and intensity. Paying for it now lol
The best approach so far I think is the one used recently by Alex Leonidas. 1-2 sets to failure with more exercises. You can get the best from both worlds this way
Dont know if the videos of your training is from this particular program, but in the book he states 4 seconds on the positive lift, 2 sec contraction and 4 sec on the negative. Your lifting was very fast which would equall less intensity. Thanks for getting this vid out there.
Loving the videos. However, would really appreciate some guidance on nutrition. That's where I am lacking. I'd like to get down to single digits but don't want to lose too much muscle mass
You have to preform the rep really slowly with a 2 second pause, like 5-2-5 seconds with perfect form. If you do that you will not be able to perform a second set and you're mussels will be under tension for a much longer time then traditional volume training.
I think Dorian had the best approach in terms of HIT taking jone's and Mentzer's teachings and principles but not allowing himself to be restricted by them where they were not working and adding more frequency and adapting to make it work for him
I was stuck with conventional training, and I gave this approach a shot. Say what you want, but I broke through the plateau like never before. I didn't do the ideal rutine, because the rest days seemed too much for me. I did another of his routines, wich was chest & back, rest 2 days, shoulders and arms, rest 2 days, and legs. And I broke the plateau and built muscle.
🧢, 🧢 and 🧢
4 months later
You broke the dream and woke up to reality and found that " Mike is a roid headed juiced up bodybuilder and his training principles suck"💀
I was training like this and I did small gains, however I respond better to much work and higher volume, my best gains were after 2 years from my start of training. I switched from like 9-12 sets sets for muscle to around 24 sets.
@@jamesberg2226Mike is bigger than lil bacne Pete.
Of course, you just supercompensate from your previous volume. Now your are stuck again
I took Mentzers routine , trained till failure workout 2 body groups , high intensity . I was constantly sore the next day . I takes 3/4 days to fully recover sometime 2 days . I hit the gym when I am not sore . More than 4 days is way to long for me. I saw improvements in 6months than I did for 2years of my old workout routine . I actually look forward to go the gym . I feel like the positive motivation improves your workout sessions . The 2/3 day rest periods are what makes me eager to go back the gym a train till failure.
Day 1 has total 4 exercise..but here we see 1 extra exercise st.arm lat pullover.....
@@pranavkumar9514 the becase it isolates the lats amd the underhand pulldown is kinda a compound movement and ending with deadlift because it is very taxing on the cns hence more growth... current scientific litrature shows that back musculature is not as simple as rest even hlf reps on heavy single arm rows can generate growth so i think 3 exercise for back is justified and at the end its just 3 sets also deadlift target the lower back for the christmas treee appearance
Mike also said that soreness is not an indicator of anything, but glad it worked for you.
@@heleeshpatel6739 are bhai yaha Mike ki baat ho rahi
I used to train 6 days a week, but now I've reduced it to just 1 or 2 days per week, and I've seen significant improvements in all of my PRs. Don't listen to the advice of those who have never tried heavy duty. Mike, in his seminars, provides valuable explanations for the reasons behind this success. He also reminds us that there's more to life than just focusing on the gym, that's why almost all his students just don't watch yt gym videos all day.
I was listening to see if he even tried the program... His advice is based on his biased experience and not actual experience. What would it hurt to take three months and just see what happens? I am planning to start this program. As a father of 5 and running two businesses, this approach gets me excited. :)
Just improving numbers is not enough to support the mentzer way of training bc it literally makes sense you are better rested you hit bigger numbers. But bigger numbers don't equal bigger muscles at least not short term. The question is how good is it for hypertrophy and of course not being on drugs
61, and absolutely LOVE HIT ! I never ever saw gains doing volume like I get with HIT. And, I have a life outside the gym ! Why in the world would someone spend 20 hours in the gym every week if they could EVEN GET CLOSE to the same results doing 2 hours a week ?….let alone get superior results. They always point to Jones, Mentzer, and Yates….but there is a huge army of people out there that LOVE HIT, me being one. I would never go back to volume, but that’s me. Find what works for you.
Okay, please post pics of your progress if working out 30 minutes a day work
@@jakovbekavac6269
Well I will tell you. I started training aged 14 in 1978. I weighed 135lbs at 5 7". After 25 years of training 4 times a week. The typical volume. I had a 44 inch chest. And 15.25 inch arms 32 inch waist. And weighed 164lbs. I thought as a natural that was my lot. I had reached my genetic limit for size. In 2003 I was given HEAVY DUTY II mind and body. Read it. And even before I started the consolidation program. I knew it all made sense. Over the next year I made progress and after one year. My chest was 48.5 inches arms 17 inches and I weighed 185lbs at 5 7.5. All lifts went up in reps and eventually poundages virtually EVERY WORKOUT. And when I stalled. I inserted more rest days and got new highs. Everything Mike said would happen came to life in my training.
Unbeknownst to me. I had been overtraining for DECADES. That's why my body would give me no more. Once I reined in the volume and frequency. And trained to failure on the working SET BOOM. Results. And I will revere Mentzer for life for is relentless push to get the truth about training for the average natural out here. All the others continue to LIE to sell programs. And supplements.
I’m running Mike’s principles in my workout program. Since I started about 6 months ago, I’ve seen great results. I wish I knew about it sooner. When I did the volume training I was always feelings beat up, sore, and fatigued all the time. With the higher intensity and additional rest days, I am seeing real results. It takes mental fortitude to train to failure, for me it’s the only way to workout now.
"The volume training" is a strawman if there ever was one. If you were beat up, sore and fatigued, you definitely needed to deload, WHATEVER your training was like. Your statement in itself begs a question. Why does your "higher intensity" require extra rest days, if "volume" was the cause of your issues? Because "intensity" is *A* primary cause of needing more rest. You can walk for miles, then repeat the next day, for weeks without issue. Despite the volume. Try doing your single rep maximum deadlift, every day, for weeks. You can't. DESPITE the fact that you are doing low volume and high intensity. So clearly, "volume" is not the primary driver of overtraining. It is a combination of SOME volume, and SOME intensity that both 1. Causes results and 2. Causes one to overtrain. Singling out one factor as being the ONLY or even *the* PRIMARY cause of results OR overtraining is a fallacy of extension.
@@rkonjr64 Why are you so upset that it worked for him? Afraid this training style will make you reevaluate?
@@rkonjr64I had the same exact experience as the commenter . I did Deload with no productive results. Within about 2/3 weeks I was back again to feeling tired and run down all the time with progress stalling. Mikes program has been creating fantastic results
1. I've done it, and likely know more about it than you. 2. Arthur Jones understood deloads and in fact used them to try to EVIDENCE his product...and he used the example with "volume" trainers. I'm certain you know what I am referring to. 3. Dorian Yates deloads. Why? 4. Like many of the people who do it, I *wish* it worked as well as "conventional" training. Why? Because who doesn't want to work out for 20 min 3x a week and not only get "as good", but THE BEST results? Programming is easy. There are very few variables-it takes little thought since everything is so cut and dried.
@@MrMasterDebate Interesting that Arthur Jones understood deloading, and Yates deloads. Most people have little idea how to implement one, and your specific results don't point the non-effectiveness of deloads, it points to poor programming. In the sports where you can't bullshit results, where they aren't subjective-strength sports-deloads are used as part of periodization by essentially everyone. So everyone else is wrong?
"If you don't rest enough, you don't grow enough" -Mike Mentzer
This is the most important yet ignored tenet in bodybuilding and the reason most fail.
Mike also said, ''Every bodybuilding program is essentially a strength program.'' His advice was to always evaluate workouts based on progression. Why most people cannot benefit from Mike's training routines is because they don't know what absolute failure is. If you reach absolute failure with one set, and if you rest sufficiently, you will be able to lift more weight and/or perform more reps on the given exercise quicker.
HIT is an ego thing. I used to be like it. You think you're the only person in the gym who does sets to failure, you need less volume and and frequency etc.
Volume (of sets with sufficient intensity) is the key driver of muscle growth for your average person.
Most guys in the gym probably train too hard on most sets and then usually have one or two exercises they do a bit of junk volume. And one or two exercises they skip very often.
Like with every other habit, activity, hobby etc, you need to put the time in (high volume with decent intensity, consistently).
People always strawman high volume by talking about 30 sets per week and 10 exercises per session blah blah.
Honestly HIT training only helps beginners who have some newbie gains but then they plateau and can never progress.
Adding in more volume is the easiest, most consistent way to progress.
You wouldn't tell someone doing any other hobby to do less of it, more infrequently.
Mike Mentzer was misunderstood! His methods accurately summarized above work. I’m doing it! Im stronger every time I go back to the gym. instead of killing myself 6days like I used to and not getting the right results
@@unbabunga229This whole rant sounds like an ego thing. We get it you like volume. Anyway I prefer HIT
@@arewestilldoingphrasing6490 😅 hit still has volume, just not enough to trigger growth.
Anyway, enjoy the DYEL look👊🏿
@@unbabunga229you’re wrong. I personally did a structured 5 month H.I.T. program. I am not hyperbolizing when i say this but i made progress EVERY(yes every) single workout session. The progress was small every session either just one rep more or with slighlty better form, but over consistent 5 months of training it adds up. I never hit a plateau, something that is bound to always happen with your classical volume workouts after a while.
What i learned from Mike Mentzer is not to be afraid of having "too much rest" days between Workouts.
In my experience Muscles tend not to go away after a week not being trained, but my Body felt so much more energized and strong once i started to train each muscle only once a week. I know such a training split is frowned upon these days, but my body responded very well to this increased recovery time. So much in fact, that i got (after 25 years of training) stronger that i was ever bevore and my muscles, tendon and nervous system had finally enough time to grow and keep up with that progression and i do not feel fatigued anymore, like i did for years.
I agree that Mentzers later workouts where too extreme to be useful for an average joe Bodybuilder. I train harder that i did when i was training every muscle 2 or 3 times a week, but not that hard like Mentzer recommended.
I only wish that i knew all that 25 years ago.
You are spot on, gym goers are just too afraid to take days off.
Bro, Mike always made it known that adding weight was extremely paramount. He also showed us that in order to reach failure it actually took MORE WEIGHT each session. His routines created more strength and more size. He emphasised that a natural body needs more time, not only to recover, but then to grow. All social media is full of PED taking frauds who need 25% of the recovery time of naturals. Mikes HIT routine changed my life. I get stronger every week and I can actually see the difference it makes to me.
Yep me too ! Some of these chumps here liken rest days to being lazy , I regard rest days as a necessary part of the training !
Link to your social media so we can see your progress?
@@HagakureJunkie haven’t put anything out yet , but will do !
@@HagakureJunkie Sorry bro I'm a grown man, I don't take pictures of myself to post on social media.
So basically the specific muscle is obligated to be stronger EVERY next time you hit it gain ???
This is a good take on the subject. I've taken a lot of pieces of Mentzer's program and implemented into my own...
The crazy part is everyone who criticizes the program hasn't actually committed to it and failed to see results. Would be a much more fair assessment if one tried it for 2 months and made comments afterwards.
The idea of pre exhaustion was not to hit failure twice.
The idea was to reach failure isolating one large muscle that was hard to hit to failure through a compound exercise.
Example: hit a set till failure of leg extensions (targeting the quads) then super set immediately to a leg press (to target all the legs muscles including the quads)
If you do only leg presses, smaller muscles will reach failure before you reach failure with the quads.
Also, Mike repeats many times that progress in reps, loads, and overall time is what you should aim for to know by data that you are progressing.
Reaching failure is a means to a end, strength/growth stimulation, reaching failure is not the target
Now that you have explained it, damn! Very well thought out by Mike. Isolating a target muscle and reaching failure with a compound exercise is something i have never thought of.
Both sets are done to failure though, at least in the HIT version of pre-ex. Leg Extension to failure (pre-x quads), Leg Press to failure (theoretically because of quads vs other muscles).
I do very slow reps to failure. So slow, that pull ups have me beat in 3 reps
Came to this after a 2 year injury ( no training ) and 8 months of rehabilitation.
Suffice to say, the slow method works for me.
Not going back to the way I trained before.
Good luck to you all in finding out what works for YOU.
Thank you for uploading and sharing.
This is what i do for now 4 months , 72 hr rest in between .. just amaaaazing improvement both strength and gain , i left gym fresh and so happy .
I just started yesterday, I’m very excited 😂 (but fuck deadlifts. I hurt my back doing them years ago, and just started again).
@@AttainTheGrainrows can be substituted for deadlift. This guy in the video has no clue what he’s talking about. Get mentzer’s book (can get a free pdf) and learn for urself. HIT is about a system of principles, guided by logic. Mentzer would be disappointed to see people copy and paste his programs.
@@perjetskies5122 i agree
@@AttainTheGrain do not risk ..do rows
I was like Tom Platz trying to do Arnold’s high volume/higher frequency routine 😂.I wasn’t getting smaller but wasn’t getting bigger either.Than meet some experienced body builders and they told me to look into Mike and Dorians style of training especially being a natural at the time.I followed a mix of both and found it worked better for me to gain mass.While the traditional bodybuilders workout routine of working out 5 to 6 days a week.Just worked better for me in endurance and muscle definition.
True true. Arnold’s solution to everything was the throw more Dbol at it. He never really evolved in terms of training.
I've tried the train to failure method. Had great pumps and looked great at the end, but always ended up stringy and gaining no size. Now I use Mike Isratel's principle of "stimulate, don't annihilate". I keep my workouts to 5 sets, two exercises per muscle group per workout and I feel much better.
That sounds like ahnilation
@@gregpettis1113 Bruh, if you cannot do 10 sets for a muscle you must be a beginner
@iangraham-white5717 if you can you're not using enough intensity
@@gregpettis1113 um… it is called allowing the number of reps you can get to drop off or reducing the weight 5%-15% and doing as many reps as possible each set
I was lost for about 2 years throwing weight around, not really knowing what I was doing and got some results. I tried Mike's training program for 2 weeks training every 4 days. It actually helped me guage how much my body can actually handle. I learned I wasn't training hard enough. I train 4 days a week now with a way better split that works for me. Also taught me that 6 to 8 rep range is my sweet spot for gains.👍
can you name the spilt im still trying to find a 4 day split..thankyou
I am also shifting to 4 day split can you please provide your current split
Monday and Thursday legs and chest.
Tuesday and Friday back shoulders and arms
the ideal program was designed for natural lifters, and the rest of 4 days is valid if you train to true failure. As Mike mentioned one set has 3-mini sets with failure. First you fail the concentric, then the static and than the negative. So I see one set as three when I am training, and when you failed on all 3, trust me your muscle group targeted are fucking toast. My gains has exploded at a age of 35 doing this instead of the 4-5 day bro split, and I have more time to other things, I actually is hyped to go to the gym since there been so many days since last time. Only thing is that you probably burn less calories over a week, so I implemented more low impact cardio or some kettlebell work for active rest days to keep in activity.
I've started HIT after doing full body 3 days a week. I tried HIT because my sessions were becoming too long resulting in my body become exhausted. After attempting HIT with Mike's guidance from his books i have come to the conclusion that I love HIT. It makes sense to me and it's the most fundamental way for my body to grow muscle. I dont appreciate some individuals always saying Mike Mentzers' way is incorrect. For some it may be. But for an individual to bash another individual for enjoying Mike's perspective behind weightlifting then benefiting from HIT is absurd to me.
There are some things I may not agree with Mentzer about but that's the beauty of weightlifting and learning from others. Compile what you enjoy and what keeps you healthy and strong. Mentally and physically.
so far I have done 4 cycles of Mentzer training. I have added on day 1 lat pullover superset with lat pulldowns and on day 2 leg curls. I am training once every 3 days. For now the strenght gains are steady and I look bigger. It is very physically demanding and psychologically challenging, in fact from now on I will start resting 4 days instead of 3.
For sure if you have a busy routine you should give a shot to this workout, but a training partner is essential.
Mentzer did advise to add another rest day as you go along. I can't remember which video it was but it's definitely mentioned. Look into it.
Hey Pete. Love your content thank you. I’ve always considered myself a hard gainer & at age 49 I’ve tried a lot of programs. I’ve ran this program for the last 6 months & to my amazement it worked really well. I tweaked it a bit by adding a shoulder press on shoulder day & on one of the leg days doing high incline Arnold press. I also added BB rows on the other leg day & did squats instead of leg pressing because I train at home. I trained every 4th day. I kept a detailed diary & I made more progress in strength & size than I ever have. I tried this style of training cause I was ‘time poor’. I am very surprised & pleased with my results. I do push myself extremely hard though & found I must just need the extra recovery. Thought I’d share
Where HIT works, is when people make their workout a marathon, turning it into an aerobic workout. As Mentzer says, musclebuilding is anaerobic, so the goal is all out effort in a short period.
Also, most focus on the sets and reps they're GOING to do, not what they are currently doing, so people dont push themselves enough.
I'm doing a HIT style workout now, and I'm shocked at just how many reps I can do at a certain weight, that I didnt think possible previously.
I will switch back to a higher volume style after a couple months and see how I feel, but right now, I feel HIT and the minimum 48 hours rest between workouts, is really packing on good size and strength
Muscle building isn't anaerobic.
Tried the ideal routine with 3 days off. Just got fat. Now doing his A B routine but made it a PPL by dividing the A workout into two workouts, one day off between workouts. Will say that the weight I’m pushing increases dramatically every workout and I’ve never had that happen to this degree. Injury free as well. Will change it up when I plateau. Agree with the video.
You were eating too much, you didnt get fat from a workout routine.
Weight gain and weight loss is entierly diet, a workout program will dictate muscle gain/retention.
Imagine blaming the routine for getting fat
Full-body workouts burn calories
@PeterKhatcherian I once trained *beyond* failure. I was sitting on a machine lifting weight straight up and above my head and went to failure. At failure I continued to try to lift, but could not lift it to apex. I had the thought of seeing if I could push beyond failure, so without easing up I just continued to try to lift the weight, having not lowered it. I kid you not. I continued there for roughly 2 minutes, unable to lift, yet refusing to lower it. It was really hard, but at about the 2 minute point, suddenly I was lifting it. When I suddenly was able to push it to the top, and then got up, I experienced a happiness and excitement way better than normal good feelings after a solid workout. I was so excited! I had proven that pushing beyond failure was possible.
Mike's advice gets a bad wrap because of the ludacris 'consolidation routine' but I think if you follow his earlier advice, ie. train with intensity, fewer reps and a focus on recovery it would do most people wonders
This is basically what I'm trying to do now. No way will I go back to doubling up in a week. Always saw my best results going to failure and drop sets. I'm giving this one set thing a try, but I'm turning it to a dropset. This allowed me to move up on weights immediately. I love how much time I can save... honestly if I can still grow, even if slower, I'm happy.
Truly the best Bodybuilding content out there! 💪🏼
I think Mike was extremely advanced when he did that program. He might have been near or at his natural genetic potential at that point already. It probably wouldn't work for most people, especially beginner or intermediate lifters. I think I like your way a little bit better. I think it has worked for all levels. Great video.
He was on huge amounts of steroids, that's where he was at. PEDs can elevate protein synthesis up to 14 days. And it didn't matter what program you do, on drugs you'll grow big.
@@burntgod7165 That explains that. Thanks.
Mike didn't do the ideal routine program. He was already retired then and was training hundreds of clients and that's when he realised how different people and bodies react to training and optimal recovery times for growth
@@Milan-qu5ut I didn't know that.....good info. Thanks.
He never did that routine
Peter's a lot more expert than I am, but taking some Mentzer ideas works really well for me. I still visit the gym every other day, but for each exercise I've (1) reduced from 3 sets to 1 (2) reduced the weight (3) introduced a big negative component (lowering the weight slowly). I now no longer have to force myself to the gym, my form is better (negative exercise almost forces good form), and I'm still making gains on the same exercises. I also have trouble getting my muscles sore because I tend to fail mentally before failing physically - and negative exercise helps with that. My rule: keep what works, discard what doesn't.
Im currently on the ideal routine, with a few tweeks. Fantastic way to train as a natty. A time saver and getting stronger! Quite a few H.I.T heavy duty content creators like Jay Vincent, and John Heart break down this style of training even further. The heavy duty college channel is also run by John Little himself, plenty of Mike Mentzer's lectures their. Mike Mentzer H.I.T training is reaching popularity and growing within these past few months, H.I.T lives on! FYI John Heart was a pro competitor and natural, trained by Mentzer himself just like Dorian Yates.
Yup
Thank you for your opinion Peter. I agree with you. I've been doing Mike's program for over 5 months now and changed a few things along the way. For example after 1 month I stopped doing the super sets, because it was too much for me. Flies to failure with incline presses right after again to failure seemed a good way to injure myself. So I do them with rests inbeteween. I added some exercises for a little more volume aswell, while ncreasing the frequency to about 3 workouts a week and it works perfectly for me. As Mike said listen to your body and all is fine.
Going to failure was never an issue for me, because I didn't take it as the goal as u stated. The goal should always be to add weight and/or reps, while doing the reps in a clean fashion, until your muscles give up or your technique is suffering. Which Mike is advocating too.
I've been following mm ideas for 6 month. I have gained a lot of mass and strength as a natty. Can't imagine adding juice.
Nice man
@Mantastic-ho3vmnot as small as you man.
I do mike’s split but I work out every 3rd day and I do cardio 2 times a week in between, I follow mike’s advice on cardio only 30 minutes each session. But I have made better gains with this Hit program than I did with Schwarzenegger‘s. I mostly wanted to try it because with my new school/work schedule I don’t have as much time to go to the gym and this so far has been the perfect program for me.
I started on bro split, after 3 years I had no more progress, so I switched to ppl, and had some gains, but very little. Last semester I adapted a HIT-based workout that I've been doing until then. It consists of 2 workouts (Push and Pull), where I can train all the main muscles twice a week, for a total of 8 weekly series for each part. This definitely took me from a level that seemed impossible to overcome. I'm making similar progress to when I was a beginner.
Thanks for the video!
Actually nice to hear this. I do the same.
Whatever i did last week, I’ll aim to add 1 extra rep. Once I hit 12 reps across all 3 sets of whatever I’m doing, I’ll add more weight and start again at 8 reps, building those reps up slowly over time until I’m hitting 12 reps again.
I agree, I think Mike's frequency isnt enough for me. I like John Meadows 3 working sets with 1 to failure, where you can't complete another rep with proper technique. This training style and always trying to beat the log book is best for me. Getting 1 more rep, adding 5 pounds or breaking a PR on isolation like 21 hammer curls isntead of 20. One new PR each session is the goal no matter the exercise. It is easy because if i very the rep ranges and weight I am bound to hit a new PR somewhere that day. Those plus 1's add up.
I have been doing HIT and it’s working for me.
Nice explanation of Mr Mentzers training
Worked good for me when I was doing heavy labor 52 plus hours a week.
That's the beauty of it too.
Yes. Mike was all about getting to it and then getting the f outta there
If you already work a physical job doing 2000 reps is out of the question
"Low volume worked for me when I was doing ridiculously high volume at work"
I agree progression is key. I personally like Lee Haney's approach. He seemed to do more moderate volume and moderate intensity.
" Failure is not whats causing you to grow, the progression is"
Pete the goat 🙏
James the goat
😂😂😂 that's the funniest thing i heard tbh. Those fitness "influencers" do be coming with the wildest quotes bruh they actin like some philosophers
May sound cliche, but I think the ideal for most people is somewhere in between the extremes of one end of the spectrum like Arnold's infinity volume approach, and Mentzer's high intensity, low volume approach.
I love that Mentzer finally gets the attention he deserves
My friend, HIT pops up every few years, as the "latest thing". Why? It sounds good, is a logical argument (based on a false premise) and is "more for less".
3 weeks on Mike's program and I'm 56 years old,,im a BK amputee along with other injuries over the years but looking to stay strong as i age been training on and off for years working out 5 days week but now only 2 days a week and let me tell you,,if I didn't have injury over the years I'd be a beast but still overall for example my barbell row from the floor went from 205lbs to 225lb rows just in a few weeks,,along with all other lifts 10 to 15lb increases across the board on every thing,,Mike's program works and even with injury from past that haunt me now and then with pain during training has diminished due to longer resting so ,Mike definitely knew what he was talking about,,I wish I knew this type training years back but I always thought train more for results but it's opposite,,train less for better results.
Thanks pete u have taught me so much my training is made up of ur methods and the results have been amazing thanks bro keep it up💪
Pete The 🐐
@@jamesberg2226 ong
One benefit i got from mentzers program was that i would want to go to the gym. Because naturally humans want things they can’t have and i couldn’t go to the gym for 3 days straight because they were rest days so i would be wanting to go but couldn’t. So when the day to go would come i would be so ready.
I just do an A/B routine with one rest day in between each. Chest/Biceps/Delts/Hams/Calves then Back/Triceps/Delts/Quads/Calves.
Completely get what you’re saying, but if your scenario about the two gentlemen, who started out at the same level doing two different programs. My opinion, arguably if you were able to obtain the same outcome is much less work I personally find a superior.
I've been trying Mike's routines and I must say it's working
Nice overview and commentary. I am with you on weight progression or rep progression ( no matter how small ) vs " failure" because I think very few people will actually really train to failure. I also think Mike's failure training was build around the use of nautilus or other machines that fixed him in to place. furthermore, having a training partner to help you force out those last reps. Alone, very few people are going to hit failure or be able to control slow reps with dumbells flyes vs a pec dec for example. I am seeing good results in my 40's working out twice a week though. So his ideas on frequency make sense to me.
I have been using this for a while.. I cant keep training 5-6 days a week. I feel burnt out. Been lifting for 13-14 years.. Now taking a more "shorter" training works for me..
Mike talked about progressive overload in the book "High intensity training the mike mentzer way" failure from one week to the next should be more reps with the same weight or more weight with less reps but in the target range. He also talks a great deal about how different people recover differently from stress, hence the 4-7 day break as a basic guideline with a strong recommendation to try different rest periods until you hit whats optimal for you meaning you can still progress with weights or reps or both. I do a standard 3 day a week with the ideal routine, works great but a far cry from the 4 day rest period he recommended as a general guideline. I wonder if diet and being a far more manual labor intensive society had influence on the 4 day break since MPS takes 24-72 hrs.
What you do on those three days?
The key is figuring out the best way to consistently make the progress to reach your goals..after 55 years i am still mixing things up a bit..most important is to prevent injuries for me at 64 now..i maintain a fairly lean 245 lbs at 6'...i do not use trt etc...my last blood test i was 200 ...not sure what my free t levels are...i can only say at certain times i feel as good as i did when i was 20...😊
Nothing on this earth better than Mike Mentzers HIT. Im growing at 60 years old. From 30 minutes training every 8 days. Volume was not working for me.
Mate … very very sensible words. Having personally met mike Mentzer and watched him train, i immediately dropped my multiple set regime and for the first time in over a decade began to make progress. But as you have pointed out here towards the end he started to get a bit extreme. At 64 years of age i am still making some of the best gains of my life using just 2 sets per exercise and focusing on progression within a 12 week strength cycle.
Just train the exact split that he outlined and you have shown here but with just 3 full days between workouts where i complete 45 mins of zone 2 recovery training either in the pool or on an exercise cycle.
Yours are VERY wise words indeed.
Agreed. I'm all for going fucking hard on every set, but I don't think you have to go to failure on every set, but go close to it.
In my opinion, the most important principle Mike was trying to convey was that people who dont respond well to training (gaining muscle at a fast rate, capacity for lots of mass gain over time) just need way more rest than they are currently getting. Im not sure anyone agrees with 7 days rest but atleast 2 days between workouts for the slow responders (who are really slow recover-ers and therefore don't see the growth process as quickly as some) instead of only 1 or 2 rest days per week. Tho guys who arent totally biased toward hit and who are honest will say something like "if traditional volume training is producing results flr you, then don't fix it. But if you've been training to failure for years and have seen little to no results, its likely your body needs far more recovery time than the guys who can go in the gym and do almost anything and see great results. Its not that HIT is better, but simply that its better for SOME. Just likely volume training or power lifting or any method of training. I personally think the reason you dont see any HIT champions is because 1) it takes insane genetics to be Mr. Olympia and if you have great genetics then you dont need HIT, and 2) it takes drugs to be Mr. Olympia, and if you're on gear then you definitely don't need the recovery time that HIT advocates for. In short, champions can train much more often with much more volume and see great results. People with less-than-optimal genetics can greatly benefit from the 2 biggest hit principals which are train hard and rest more. Just food for thought.
HIT is BETTER. Some simply don’t need it because , due to genetics they can recover and grow from anything. There are countless stories of people who made ZERO gains off traditional training methods, that blew up from HIT. There’s also stories of people with great genetics that made even better gains than before off it. Just taking a look at any comments section about HIT, you can see tons of people that speak highly of it.
Also the whole “No champions are made with HIT” is BS. Dorian Yates, won 6x Mr.Olympia and created the mass monster era trained HIT. But somehow everyone that talks down on HIT just conveniently forgets about him.
HIT is extremely misunderstood. If you don't take the time to understand the concept then of course it sounds stupid. Once you listen and understand, it makes more sense than any other training method. Not because of the single set, but because of the increased recovery time. If you want to do 3 sets then fine but decreasing frequency is the magic bullet.
Just to spread awareness this isn’t really it. Go watch Mike mentzer videos on UA-cam, there’s a specific channel dedicated to his plans and understanding of it. It’s slow paced reps to failure, if you’re failing in the range of 6-10 reps you’re doing something right.
If people want to take the low-volume and high-intensity approach, they should look into Mike Mentzer's early training methods (late 70s and early 80s) or Dorian Yates's style of training.
Got my chest from 44 inches to 48.5. My arms from 15 inches to 17 at 5 7.5 tall, doing Mike mentzers HIT in 1 year. Volume wasnt working for me. So I wont hear a bad word said about HIT. For some like me that minimal training is required. We need LOTS of rest..
I recently started incorporating one of Mike's principles of taking my 1 set to concentric failure, and than go to eccentric failure 3-4 times with rest pause reps (on exercises that is possible and safe). Did that for example for his leg workout and never felt that kind of immediate post workout weakness. My legs were fried and could barely walk lol. The taxing on the nervous system is very noticable, 1-2 days after a workout you feel like you've been hit by a truck in a sense of general weakness. I understand why he would advocate for longer rests between workouts, because we cant all recover from that huge brief stress in the same rate, but i guess you have to know where to draw the line to dont go to the extremes.
What i was wondering, is there any benefit of doing long, lets say 15-20 second eccentric reps for hypertrophy at the end of your set to reach failure like he advocated?
Yes its the most important part of any exercises because the ecentric part is where you get the most stretch
It’s not worth it in terms of recovery imo. Once I cut out negatives and went to exclusively positive and static failure, my progress sped up.
@@perjetskies5122 Yes they are taxing on the body more than concentric and static because you push your body on the bodys strongest frontier so to speak. It makes sense to have to recover more from it but it makes up for it for stimulating muscle growth the best. It works for me because i workout only 2 to maybe 3 times a week. If I wanted to train 5-6 times a week I would cut the intensity way down, but I was always a fan of taking 1 giant step then doing 3-4 small ones lol. It all comes down to how you want to train. The biggest thing i realized in my recovery days, is I am way weaker until I recover then when i used to train the usual volume way without even knowing what failure was. So i get your point, there is defininitely some drawbacks to it.
Great subject and observations. I was waiting for you to address the isometric and eccentric part of Mike's theory. Maybe part 2?
Your advice is very accurate my friend and this is why i love watching your videos!Thank you !!
It was the program that allowed me to put on most of my muscle. I’ve revisited it recently.
This program is basically an upper lower program and you could take more like 1-2 days off between workouts (although Mike would not agree).
The question for you (and others) and others with focus on progression is what are you training for? It sounds like sarcoplasmic hypertrophy mixed with practicing lifting a heavy weight. The myocytic androgen receptor controls the strength but NOT the mass of the limb muscle. The progression you are talking about is just chemical strength and how the body adapts.
Leading up to pre exhaust you begin using secondary muscles...for example bis and tris...so you are actually working out muscles more than once during this four part cycle.
Very glad you did a review on this program.
Not worth Pete's time tho
Veeeery interesting idea! Me (57 yo, ex weightlifter doing some BB now - with some oly lifts and assistance work): as my recovery ability no longer is what it used to be, I tried Mentzer's Ideas, but with some tweaks, because... well I always was more "weight/reps", not _hypertrophy_ oriented. Take this as valuable anecdotal experience:
- Made it *2* sets, to failure, not always with pre-exhaustion - and that pre-exhaustion also not to absolute failure.
- ( *A* ) Rested 2-3 days then ( *B* ): mon (A) thu (B) sat (A) mon (B) thu (A) sat (B) repeat. Same workout every 5 days:
--- legs + chest and triceps on *A* :
--------- front squats, standing calf raises with the bar on my front rack: 3-4 sets, BB's (not weightlifters' ) standard progression, from 12 to about 7-8 reps, so *not* following "heavy duty" at all;
--------- dumbbell flies SSW (superset with) barbell incline bench for pecs, standing barbell triceps skull crushers SSW weighted dips for triceps (but the dips at the end were actually for both, obviously, having exhausted the pecs on the 1st exercise)
--- shoulders, upper back, biceps on *B* (no lower back, being an ex weightlifter I'm already strong there):
--------- lateral raises to failure SSW push press to failure for shoulders (anterior, middle); weighted chin-ups for rear delts, upper back then biceps: standing barbell curls, to failure, again superset (!) with some bodyweight pull-ups (the lats help more, there, the idea was to "post-exhaust" the biceps)
Well, what happened? could only maintain this routine for *3* *weeks* before catching all sorts of pain in muscles and tendons, but - amazingly enough - not the joints🤣🤣🤣🤣 . I guess perhaps Mentzer was right on this: ONE set to failure is just fine; I did too much (for my old age) !?!?
I agree about not being a fan of pre-exhaustion , but to do a few sets of the actual workout your doing ( bench etc ) before going all out on said exercise.
I have run this program
It is extremely taxing on your central nervous system. However, your strength goes through the roof. You never hit a plateau or at least I never did. I still run it every once in a while, but I do more of a Dorian Yates style couple to three warm-up sets and drop into one super heavy set failure .
The pre-exhaustion before you do your compound set is magic. I don’t know what it is about it but man does it kick your ass
I’ve been doing HIT and am very interested in this type of training. I used to do more cardio as I was in the military and I loved more HIIT and hill reps etc over long distance running. When my knees went I turned to weight lifting. Always lifted weights but it was more strength circuits. I turned to the usual high volume programs Arnold splits, PPLetc recorded all my workouts for years. My body basically didn’t get anywhere with high volume training 5-6 days a week was too much. I started reading about HIT and was more interested in Dorian Yates. I also started reading about Mr America Heart who was a natural bodybuilder who based most of his training around HIT. He says he used to do Dorian’s style in the off season and when it came to compete, dieting etc he would switch to Mentzers training. Sort of makes sense. If you are into HIT tho I don’t think there is anyone better to teach you the best ways of training HIT so look up Mr America Heart of yous are interested. I have had my best results in years of doing HIT but Dorian’s program not Mentzers.
Well-done bro I was at the same thinking path when I tried Mentzers program. You gave speak to my thoughts! 💯
I have to agree. I don't think pre-exhausting is effective nor is it necessary. Think of your workout as having an "energy meter." If you're always pre-exhausting, your energy will be zapped before you actually start the working set. This would make the progression inconsistent because you could actually get more stimulus from multiple working set, but instead, you chose to pre-exhaust into an unnecessary amount of fatigue
Excellent practical guidance in this video. Thank you!
Something that people seem to forget when it comes to this sort of programming is that you should still warm up the muscle as much as physically possible without fatiguing yourself. Never attempt what Mike preaches while going in cold
The overall video as well as the conclusion I agree with. But in the instance where you discussed the two people of same strength and size using failure and not. The indicator of which is more successful would be an either or. More strength or more muscle size? You will get more of one than the other on average. In this instance I would say muscle size at less fatigue would be the better overall decision maker. If pre-exhaustion before squats allows me to get more activation from quads at a lower CNS fatigue will in a caloric deficit why not? If I was in a surplus it may be more beneficial and less risk at that time for me to then go heavier on squats at same or lower reps. This is all while regardless of the decision maintaining high intensity and good form. Mile mentzer and Dorian had it right with maintaining quality but I think someone like Tom platz focused more on volume and quality than the weight itself. He has mentioned it multiple times that the weight will come with the reps. In powerlifting muscle size is a bi-product of lifting heavier and heavier. In bodybuilding strength is a by product of mainly muscle growth. If bodybuilding is the goal. As long as nutrition and sleep are there it should be how can I maintain the lost CNS and delayed muscle soreness to allow me to return back to that muscle group at the scheduled time. Progressive overload is not always more weight but maybe more volume. Ex’s: drop sets, pause sets, higher reps less weight, partials, assisted reps. Sometimes the weight on the bar does not need to go up in weight but needs to move forward in the overall reps within sets as is.
Interested in the discussion that may happen below on training scheduling.
I’m betting most people shitting on Mentzer never even tried training like him.
Not for me thanks. 4-7 days rest what? I prefer work my ass off 5 days per week, i love training.
its not for everyone as mike sais its for those who have intact functioning brain
@@umarhossain2701Nah, its for "roid heads" like him
Exactly bro, Mike is so "juiced up to the gills" that he wanted longer rests to recover 💀
@@umarhossain2701people with functional brains believe in scientifically proven methods
It allows time to do other activities of course. Biking. Running. Bodyweight exercises. Rucking.
Mr. Khatcherian, you look big as hell, and strong as f*ck to boot. I mean that sincerely. Great video.
Hey bro, great video as usual. I follow more of Dorian’s blood and guts training style where he did two sets to failure.
I would love to see a breakdown of 80s bodybuilder Johnny Fuller crazy high volume training and his diet. He’s a very underrated old school bodybuilder who had a fantastic physique. Keep pumping out that content
There isn’t a one size fits all, the question is are you a walk by faith individual or spoon fed, spoon fed is ok in the beginning, but eventually you have to create your own personal program that creates the right stimulus for YOU based on your lifestyle etc. Key is make sure you’re enjoying the journey!
I take out the pullovers, the flyes , the lat pulldown. I do PBN instead of the lateral raise. I do deadlift on back day. I'm 57. I progress.
Logical explanation Sir, thanks again❤😮😊
I have been doing Mentzer’s routine for three months now. I train twice a week, usually on Monday and Friday. I tweaked the program a bit and the gains have been steady. I add at least 1 or 2 reps at every workout. However, I would not advise it for a novice, as the volume is too low to learn proper technique.
Great content as allways! Would love to see in detail video about GVT.
Well mikes reasoning for failure was because it puts the body under a level of stress that the body would need to adapt to it and how would it adapt to it? Add muscle.
My bad it adds strength and strength = muscle.
This is it! Great video
I don’t go to complete failure but near failure on 3 sets per body part 3 times a week so far I’m liking it and feel it and I like this way of lifting also I am a beginner too so idk jack and jus fyi
Every one is different train the way you know what works for you,that's the problem with bodybuilding every one says this way works or another, do what you know works for you period quit listening to people and listen to your body period
The ideal HIT program is Dorian Yates program or a simple push-pull-legs program each done once a week.
He always talked about progressing in weight
great takes
Actually, you pre-exhaust with the second exercise first. So for chest it's, warm up x2 incline Smith machine, then flyers supersetting with incline Smith machine. Mike's own words.
Mentzer is a legendary mind and had one of the most legendary physiques of all time. Proofs in the pudding bro. Dorian anyone??
It's not the program that matters, its the principles of HIT that you can apply to any style of training. Workouts dhould be breife, infrequent, with lower volume and high levels of effort, allowing for adequate recovery between workouts. Sets intensity and recovery will vary between individuals. At 48 I can only train each bodypart once a week regardless if thats a splut or full body routine. At 25 I teained 6 days a week with ridiculous amounts of volume and intensity. Paying for it now lol
Brilliant video, great advice
The best approach so far I think is the one used recently by Alex Leonidas. 1-2 sets to failure with more exercises. You can get the best from both worlds this way
Dont know if the videos of your training is from this particular program, but in the book he states 4 seconds on the positive lift, 2 sec contraction and 4 sec on the negative. Your lifting was very fast which would equall less intensity. Thanks for getting this vid out there.
Loving the videos. However, would really appreciate some guidance on nutrition. That's where I am lacking. I'd like to get down to single digits but don't want to lose too much muscle mass
You have to preform the rep really slowly with a 2 second pause, like 5-2-5 seconds with perfect form. If you do that you will not be able to perform a second set and you're mussels will be under tension for a much longer time then traditional volume training.
not only was mentzer a great thinking in the world of bodybuilding he has amazing genetics, he has some really iconic photos
Like your overview! Thanks the video
Idk I have been applying many of mentzer’s principles over the past year and have not felt this good in a long time.
I think Dorian had the best approach in terms of HIT taking jone's and Mentzer's teachings and principles but not allowing himself to be restricted by them where they were not working and adding more frequency and adapting to make it work for him