The Joe Hawley Situation - An Overview
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 сер 2023
- Please read the document for full context. It isn't unlikely that I've misunderstood something, or left something out, I only wanted this video to be an overview. Please do not try and contact Joe, it's the last thing he needs. Please also respect the privacy of the two who released this document, they did the right thing, and this will no doubt be a difficult time for them.
We'll be alright.
#joehawley #tallyhall #hawaiipartii
Joe Hawley, Joe Hawley Doc, Joe Hawley Allegations, Joe Hawley Drama, Joe Hawley Controversy, Joe Hawley Drama
IMPORTANT:
I now notice that this video may seem to downplay what Joe has said, but that's only because I have chose not to include the actual screenshots. They are really awful, and even though it may be difficult, I ask you to look at them. Here's the document: docs.google.com/document/d/1Q7dV22sNf43YM9iKQ_RdjmHCZlAgwrOP1HmCokS93s4/edit?usp=sharing
⬆️ THE DOC HAS BEEN PRIVATED, YOU WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO VIEW IT. Check my most recent community post for updates.
Please do not try and contact Joe, it's the last thing he needs. Please also respect the privacy of the two who released this document, they did the right thing, and this will no doubt be a difficult time for them. Try and keep the comments civil, and remember that we're all in the same boat here.
It says to request access
it seems like this link isnt accessible anymore, when i clicked it i had to request access
@@bee-zz6bf check my most recent post
Well, i guess all hopes of tally hall coming back have taken a bit hit and may be dead.
TallyBall, do you think tally hall will ever come back after this?
But wait weren't they 18 and 25???
I think he might actually be sleeping in a cardboard box after this.
😭
And spending every dollar at the liquor shop
@@HylianHero123 💀
@@HylianHero123 he definitely was on August 8th...
Really ?
Man as a kanye fan it feels weird having fans of stuff hold people accountable for their actions
Fr 😭
I think a large reason why is because Tally hall is a very wide community with rarely having only joe hawly specific fans. Because of this Tally hall fans who already saw the group as a group can much easier make the jump from hating the content to hating the creator when there are more collaborative creators involved to latch onto. IDK maybe I'm onto nothing
I really wish that this will push Joe to seek some help. The members acknowledged that he’s been suffering with his Schizophrenia for so long and he’s never looked for professional help.
A lot of people seem to not acknowledge that and interact with him when they shouldn’t. There’s definitely a parasocial issue in the fanbase.
I really hope he spends some time focusing on his mental health because he’s hurt a lot of people with his words and actions.
I wish him the best in recovery (if he seeks it)
I may be wrong but I dont believe anyone confirmed he has schizophrenia, they speculated and said he may have it. The distinction is important
best option
hey robbity
If the neglected treatment of schizophrenia thing is true the guy is over if he continues to refuse treatment. I've seen people's lives get ruined by underestimating the value of their mental health.
why does him being schizophrenic explain so many of their songs better
It’s just doesn’t sit right with me that Joe could have done stuff like this.
I hope Joe does manage to recover from this
manage to recover… from hurting other people?
@@pinkdoesstuff from the mental illness. joe isn’t joe at the moment
Manage to recover from grooming others??
@@glumdrops3678 from mental illness, he isn’t good ol joe hawley at the moment 😔
Joe isn’t Joe. He’s been struggling with mental illness for years and the other TH members say that he really isn’t himself at all.
Both the fanbase and Joe are at fault for this. This wouldn't have happened if A: the fans stopped contacting him after he was being an ass and/or didn't contact him to begin with, B: Joe got professional help with his schizophrenia and/or got help from close friends. It's an unfortunate situation for all, and we can hope that Joe and the victims get better from here on out. Nobody on either side deserves this, and we can hopefully make it a learning experience.
The problem here is that schizophrenia and thus, paranoia, could be the reason he’s not getting help
I’m not defending him, but I do think there’s a bit more to just “he should just get help”
@@marshspy There needs to be some kind of external push, something that makes him decide that enough is enough. I don’t mean harassment, btw, I mean an intervention or something from his friends and family.
@@ShenDoodles That’s exactly what I was thinking. Not much we can do, unfortunately. Just have to hope
Hey I know it's been a while since this comment but I've experienced psychotic breaks and have multiple friends with mental issues and schizophrenia. When you have these diseases it's incredibly hard to bring yourself to reach out (even more as a male). I don't know what's happening since this but I just wanted to put this out (no hate or anything) just my experience with these mental issues
I am so incredibly happy that this comment section contains people with a sliver of sanity left that think removing Joe from images of the band/replacing him + bullying him on twitter is absolutely absurd shit to do. TikTok and the TH subreddit's reaction to the doc is seriously just immature
I see so many people doing that and I'm like "Won't that make him feel worse?"
@@rosykindbunny1313it's also very discouraging/insulting to people to people who suffer from mental issues
They should be thinking "hey this guy is suffering from some heavy issues, maybe we should pull back a bit"
There are situations where mental illness isn't a reason for a persons actions but this is a situation where it is
@@thelocalcrusader9522 We should be pushing for him to get help, not to replace him
@@rosykindbunny1313 absolutely
Wdy expect, tiktok and reddit is somehow a giant breeding ground for idiots 💀
Andrew made a nice statement earlier today which was nice to see, in a weird way. Sort of glad someone pointed out that the two repeatedly contacting him was a stupid idea and i maintain that they should have just blocked him and been done with it the first time but that doesnt make any of what he's done better. Also I said it on twitter too but dumb people hounding him for an apology and acting all shocked a man known to be mentally ill didn't just bounce back to being normal is so bizarre to me. not sure what they're expecting from a man who's almost definitely going through an episode of some kind. oh well.
Yeah, I saw Andrews response, and I think we seen to completely agree.
Where did he make the statement?
Im glad to hear someone around the age range of them saying how immature it was that they kept contacting him. Lots of people seem to be giving them a pass because "oh they are just young and dont know any better." But like, Id think 17 and 18 year olds, over the span of 2.5 years would realize, "hey, this guys is kinda being a jerk to us and also we are more than half his age. Lets dip from him."
Anyways, I hope he gets the help he needs, although I dont think he knows what help is, which is why he hasnt gotten any. He could use some really close friends and going to a therapist with them or something, just incase he gets all hissy with the therapist.
Joe was unironically more immature than the others, and I don’t think that will change. I really hope it does, because he won’t be able to accept help if it doesn’t.
17 is still young and I hope people do not invalidate 17 year olds being preyed upon by adults who are extremely older than them, she was a victim by him, I don't care
@@knockofffatelvira335 true. Plus, the whole "the second you turn 18 you are immediately mature" is so dumb, 18 is still a teen 😭
He didnt allegedly says slurs in an audio recording he admits to have said them
Yeah, I just worded it wrong. My bad.
And he was very cool for having exercised his right to freedom of speech.
@@AllTheOthersFreedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom of consequence, bud
@@AleksandarBell Indubitably based.
@@AllTheOthers Based, also the likes on your comment and the reply are "4" "20". Ecks dee
Prime example of why you should never meet your idols. We all should also remember that Joe Hawley from 2005 was different from Joe Hawley 2023, and honestly we should just leave the guy alone
Tally ball made an amazing point
"While him being mentally ill doesn't excuse his actions it does explain them"
i hope joe gets help. he was always my favorite member and a huge inspiration to me so this was super shocking and disappointing
Joe hawley be like: "father your honour may i explain."
LMAO
bro's brain claimed its glory over him
“I plea of thee have sympathy for me”
He think he has a good heart albeit insane
@@Ifellinsideasewer condemn him to the infirmary
So a mentally unstable individual was poked, prodded and harassed by younger fans, and then they released a document, then hid it away when they got overwhelming attention from it...
Yeah, I don't trust shit.
The perks of being online: hounded by the most socially inept, narcissistic, and outright psychotic people of our society we don’t interact often with irl lol
I’d like to add, most fans, including the victim, are very young. We do not know how mental illness affects Joe.
Yes, the fan should’ve cut contact, but from what we’ve seen with Joe, he is very unstable. I genuinely believe that the fan did not know how unstable Joe is, or the extent of mental illness in general (much like many young people). They didn’t know how far Joe would go.
I also believe that many do not want to feel shame in the fact that they look up to horrible people. Idolizing an ideal version of celebrities and not a realistic version has become more and more normalized.
We do not know the fan or Joe personally. Many, including myself, are making accusations about a situation where we don’t know people’s genuine intention.
I could go on and on about how Joe’s mental instability caused him to genuinely not know what he did was wrong, but he still did bad things.
Yes, mental illness is to play here, but we’re digging too deep.
Joe, a mentally ill man, did objectively bad things. That is all we need to say and know because we do not know these people personally and yet we’re acting like we do.
the problem is that even if you are young you can see when something is wrong, and i can understand that some people cannot really get it. But even myself that i am quite new in this fandom knew that there was something wrong. Not to excuse Joe but at the end is our responsibility too.
I just hope no one keeps trying to message or to see him as something that we don't clearly know. The past is the past and we have to accept it , we have to learn from it too.
Very fair take. I've read through the google doc, and while I'll say firstly that this was irresponsible of Joe, and the things like the transphobia are shitty of him without excuse, it seems clear to me the fans in question hounded him in an attempt to make their parasocial relationship a real thing, without remembering that the dude is just human.
A lot of my last week has been trying to take care of a friend of mine, who's trans, and also had the problem of drug abuse thrown into the mix. She too said some really shitty and hurtful things that I know she wouldn't support when thinking about it in a better place, but we're all allowed to fuck up.
I only really found Tally Hall and all the members works relatively recently, and another factor in all this is how passionate the fanbase is, to the point of idolatry of the band members, and that leads to shit like this.
If I'm being honest though, while this is an awful situation, he did nothing irredeemable; that doesn't mean he didn't clearly fuck up and should step away till he's in a better place though.
in my opinion twitter users ruin literally everything tbh, if you get """exposed""" or whatever and it has something to do with twitter you can just ignore it because nobody actually cares, normal people dont use twitter. if it hits mainstream media though then you're screwed (news channels, newspapers etc.). the amount of people using twitter is definitely going to decline and im pretty sure we all know that twitter only really contains a certain type of people (carrd co link in bio, picrew pfp), apparently majority of them were democrats but still, for a while it used to be tumblr, then they moved to twitter i guess, so where will they go next. on the other side of things, i guess 4chan is like where all the far opposite of twitter users go, but normal people just use youtube or tiktok because they're too massive. old people use facebook. other social medias probably exist idk who uses wordpress or blog it or whatever.
imo one day you wont see twitter users anymore, they'll be forced to integrate into normal society, where they will share a diverse platform instead of an echo chamber that basically has the exact same opinion on everything. but aside from that i believe that twitter users dont make up a majority of tally hall fans but they just happen to be the most vocal, probably because normal fans dont have the need to be in a community, they just listen, it's not an obsession for them unlike with some others who are completely obsessed. even one of my teachers irl is sick and tired of tally hall he told me he knew a student who was obsessed with it, bro i swear the community is making people hate tally hall slowly ngl. like shut up! shut up nobody cares, you're going through a phase!
anyways tally hall fans when they hear that joe hawley is the big bad evil man will still listen to joe hawley lol its literally their life they will complain about it sure but they wont actually change their ways lolo
If you don't like him don't listen. I don't know what part of the world you live in, but where I am from we have human rights and people are allowed to act and say the things they want to. There is a classic saying from around 1787, "You're rights end where mine begin." If you attempt to push your beliefs unto others, you are objectively in the wrong.
@@AllTheOthers There are 4 numbers in this comment that make it really hard to listen to you. Guess what they are.
You said my feelings exactly
@AllTheOthers :/ how did they push their beliefs on Joe? I fail to see how this relates to the sexual comments, slurs, and general assholery
As much as I'm disgusting by Joe's actions, I also can't help but fault these people as well. We shouldn't be poking and prodding clearly mentally ill people like sleeping bears just because they're famous.
I hope joe gets more help. He needs it. Also it’s kinda the fans fault for continuing to interact also from what I’ve heard he’s worked with trans artists.
Thank you so much for making this - as a diehard tally hall fan for a few years now, it really upset me to hear about this situation and absolutely disgusted me to read the document with my own eyes. I especially love that you brought up fans removing Joe hawley from tally hall images as this maddened me as well. I agree that it’s extremely immature and I really hope that anyone doing this looks back and realizes that they’re only adding to the build up of stress Joe is probably facing right now.
On one hand, however, I’d like to know your thoughts on the tweets Joe was liking and the thing he retweeted. I’m not sure what to think and whether to assume he’s crazy or having a manic episode or whatever. If you don’t want to share your thoughts that’s fine! I’m simply curious.
Once again, thanks for making this.
No problem!
I truly think he’s just going through a bad patch at the moment, or a ‘manic episode’ as you put it. This is no doubt a really stressful time for him, which will only be making his mental problems worse. I’m trying to avoid looking at what he’s Tweeting just because I don’t think any of it will be being said in the right frame of mind, but if people start taking it too far I may make another video. He needs to be left alone, imo.
I feel joe should get help, not death threats. He would probably feel bad if he made a apology he would get bombarded with hate due to collens apology. And I really hope he goes to therapy or rehab due to being SAd and do drugs. He did music to rehabilitate himself but now he is worse so I suggest we follow what andrew said and know joe isnt who he was 20 years ago, and we should leave him alone and let him seek the help he deserves.
It's honestly a serious shame that so many people's takeaway I've seen from this whole situation is just being super defensive/protective towards him. I'm trans and I'm still a fan of the bands music, but people need to understand Joe's behavior shouldn't be defended or downplayed like I'm seeing so many in the comments and elsewhere doing, it's fucked up
I agree with this, Joe should have accountability for what he did, but I still don't think it came out of a place of malice, It's just sad to see him do things like this
Yeah, sometimes i try to clarify to people that Joe wasnt the only issue here.
But it sometimes sucks that i feel im defending the man, he deserves the accountability
The reason people are downplaying Joe’s behavior is mostly due to his schizophrenia. I’m not saying this clears him of blame, but the main blame on Joe right now is that he isn’t getting help for his mental issues.
@@moebeans72 Oh yeah Schizophrenia. The perfect reason to groom minors.
when doc part ii releases before the 3rd album
i've been super quiet about this and thought i'd share my thoughts.
a key step to healing is acknowledging you can do better: feeding into the delusion that he did nothing wrong is actively harmful to this.
i have plenty of mental health issues and let me be perfectly clear when i say that does not justify anything he did.
the best hope is that joe does a lot of reflection, seeks external help from a professional (if he hasn't already), keeps himself safe, and stays away from his fans for a bit while he does so.
i am glad that this situation is being treated much more maturely on average than the last doc, at least from what i've seen.
honestly the doc was a devastating thing to come home to. genuinely hope he changes & grows as a person & gets the help he needs. i really wish more people would listen to eden & nymn about everything honestly. i know that because what he's done is HORRIBLE its a bit hard to take the "dont harass him" thing seriously, but with the full context of everything, its kind of upsetting to see people i recognize sending him threats. i just hope everything turns out best case scenario in the end, as unlikely as it seems to be. it is nice to see the majority of the community being supportive of the victims, though.
Im trans and i always get sad when someone i look up to turns out transphobic, just knowing they wouldn't respect me just because im trans always makes me super sad.
Yeah :( I'm trans myself and it sucks it's such a horrible feeling
skill issue
@@WinstonChurchill208 why
@@mrmidnight6341 ikr, I hate when that happens, it's like a combination of sadness, disappointment and a tiny bit of anger because of the people that might have been hurt by such people
i'm gay from very homophobic country, and other people's opinion doesnt bother me. Here we've got a person who doesnt even know about our existance, why should we care what someone thinks of us without even knowing?
I feel bad for everyone involved in this, tbh. Joe needs help and is getting attacked instead, and the victims obviously feel hurt and betrayed. That doesn't mean either of them are completely innocent. Joe has still said all those bad things, and I agree that the victims did make some poor decisions.
Also I think the doc was privated. Anyone know why?
Edit: I saw your community post for why. I have to respect them for privating it after it got outta hand.
Someone with a brain afther all this time
This is actually bizarre. I’ve always looked up to Joe Hawley, and he was pretty much the whole reason I was into Tally Hall and Hawaii Part ii. I’m so upset now 😭
I hope Joe however recovers from this
TWO
@@meowmeowmeowmeowmeowww yes
@@lunathelunawing1804fucking bri’ish numeral
He put me onto JHJH. What a playlist, to at least happen before the chaos.
It's unsurprising after hearing the lyrics of Turn the Lights Off & Weird Bed. I don't even know this band but I heard those two songs & then I looked for something like this because it just seemed so obvious.
I still like Joe, he is a good music man
I still love his music, but now I more so just hope he gets help.
*MUSIC MAN*
*matpat*:MUUUSIC MAAN* Music Man music Man MANN OF THE MUSIC MY BRAIN CANT COMPREHEND THE MAN OF MUSIC GAHHHH
@@tallyballYT if joe hawley gets cancelled i will cry
i cant survive without aristotle's denial
You can always separate the art from the artist
Sometimes messed up individual are objectively skilled and talented
I know people say he should’ve gotten help for his possibly undiagnosed schizophrenia, and he should, but it’s honestly not that easy and blaming people for not seeking help is never helpful. We don’t know Joe’s situation or why he doesn’t seek help.
Speaking from personal experience, getting treatment for severe mental illness especially when it’s one that fucks with your perception like schizophrenia is extremely hard. Overtaxed mental health services, long waiting list, bad/unhelpful psychologists, unaffordable/expensive treatments, men are less likely to be taken seriously in regards to mental health, lack of psychoeducation… paranoia. When you think everyone is out to get you, that includes medical professionals. I doubt it’s any better when your fan base sends you death threats or pretends you don’t exist or actively seeks to vilify you.
It’s not as easy as ‘just get help’, it’s not a guarantee to ‘fix’ everything either. Regardless, I hope he does find what he needs to get better because if it is undiagnosed schizophrenia, prognosis gets increasingly worse the longer it goes untreated.
I really think joe is suffering from a LOT of different mental problems, and illnesses. The dude does not seem all there, and I really hope he gets better
mr president, a second doc has hit the tally hall fandom
all mine callouts crumble down the minors gasping under trouble
shrieking under hall of X, thy red saves a tie for trouble
The doc:pt ii
The attempts to get his address annoys me- can we please let artists, musicians, creators- ANYONE just get help and get better instead of pissing and shitting over them making a mistake?
“A mistake” is very much oversimplifying it but aside from that nitpick you are 100% correct and I hope he gets the help he needs and doesn’t let the shitty fans get to him
As a person that has had a brief contact with a drunk musician before I'll say that people start talking about more sexually oriented stuff when they are drunk. With combination with Joe's mental instability you can imagine how awful things can get.
Just for clarification, I'm not trying to make a point, just leving my thoughts about what might have happened.
I can't help but say that I'm still so conflicted on this situation--despite it being so long ago I really can't.. *grasp* and understand it. I've seen so many people shit on Joe, or people victim blaming, it's so confusing and I've accidentally fell into a rabbit hole.
The worst thing is that I've just recently discovered Tally Hall as a band, I'm a new fan and I didn't know that one of the members would just do this. Or that older fans than me have decided to treat the situation so lightly and immaturely, it's not exactly a good introduction but it makes me content knowing that post-Tally Hall Joe is different from the Joe he was years ago. (Is it fine to say that? After all, the Tallies did say he was totally different in their co-authored tweet.)
I honestly am shocked to see Joe be like this, and my heart goes to the people who wrote the document and experienced what he has done. I just really hope that he can be able to realise that his mental health is probably in shambles and get the therapy that he truly needs. And I hope those victims are feeling better now.
I'm just so conflicted.. I know that parasocial relationships are wacky and these are just one of those examples. Since the doc was privated, I have no idea if what people say are true. So honestly, I might as well stay neutral and wish the best for all of them.
It really is a weird introduction, I suddenly remembered Miracle Musical and questioned its meaning--searched it up and listened to a documentary. Only to fall inside a hole known as Tally Hall.
"It's an explanation, not an excuse."
The phone called was incredibly disturbing,considering for all theese years hes been the one whimsical member that was always funny. But to see him in this state is horrible although he is mentaly unstable and does need proffesional help but as you said the things that he did were still insanly wrong
ITS SO JOEVER BROS :(
IT MIGHT NOT BE! Just hope he gets help and give him a chance to respond/change, all might be resolved in the end.
I'm glad to know that this topic is being brought to youtube. I was shocked when I found out about the document and all the accusations, you're right that the attitude of the fans has been immature at certain points, besides that Joe needs help, he really does. Anyway, we just have to wait for things to clear up, I hope Joe receives help, it's disappointing to see how he has ruined his career like this.
liked your video btw
(If something I said doesn't make sense, it's because I'm using a translator)
Been listening to Rotary Park and Banana Man recently, still a bop so definitely gonna listen to it again, but this is a good example of separating the art from the artist.
I dont mean this as a diss to the rest of the album, it's just not my style, but rotary park is the only song I personally bop to, but it also creeps me out lol i guess that's how i know it's doing its job as an art piece
@@SlamDunkPyro
That song makes me want to go outside at night to take a walk and get mugged.
@@SlamDunkPyroRotary Park is one of the only songs I listen to from Joe Hawley Joe Hawley. That and Bring Her Along.
@@rosykindbunny1313 Aristotle's denial is so good as well
@@Dream_Sweet_In_Sea_Major Aristotle's Denial wasn't on JHJH, it was on YEYE
"do you want a banana" hits different now
YOU DID NOT 😭😭😭😭
@@ItsAlexQG yes i did
Peel it down and go mm mm mm mmm
oh yeah I saw a lot of insane things that fans started saying and doing because of the doc. I completely support your every word. Hope everything gets better
I was genuinely so heart broken how this is basically the end of tally hall.
I loved joe he was my most favorite member with such a beautiful voice and such amazing composed complex music that made me want to be just like him. I feel horrible because theres such a big part of me that wants to support him still but I know I shouldn't.
He was my biggest idol and I looked up to him, he basically became my personality and to see his entire image being shattered.
He’s mentally ill, he said and did terrible things but nothing irredeemable, I’m hoping he can change for the better and overcome his condition and come out the same Joe from a decade ago, you are not wrong for wanting to like the Joe in those songs as that is not the same Joe we have at present
I would like to start this off by saying deadnaming is very wrong and I am not trying to support or defend Joe Hawley.
When I first learnt about people changing their names (and it/it’s pronouns) I was confused and didn’t understand the importance of respecting those things, so I didn’t make as much of an effort as I do know to respect them. (I still made an effort, just not a big one) It wasn’t until I saw people explaining the importance of them (and how deadnaming/misgendering affects them) that I understood and tried really hard to respect it. (I have never experienced gender dysphoria, but have experienced body dysmorphia and was able to relate it to other people’s experiences, which helped me understand) What I am saying with this is that Joe may be in a similar situation, and not understand why respecting name changes is important, or even why people do it. It’s possible someone taking the time to explain it to him could help. The reason I think this is because the way Joe talked about deadnaming sometimes was similar to how I did, when I didn’t understand. Not all of it though, I would like to reiterate.
I am not a professional, this is just my experience, and how it might align with Joe’s.
Edit: I believe saying “he was in a clear mind, and therefore what he said is completely horrible” is a little unfair. I have said shitty stuff when in a clear mind, but uninformed. Being in a clear mind doesn’t mean you are informed. Eden did correct Joe, but sometimes people need more than just a correction to better their behaviour, they also need an explanation. I am one of those types of people. If you say “don’t do this” but don’t tell me why, I’m less likely to listen to you. This also applies for me when I didn’t understand, it was harder to respect these things when I didn’t have a reason why.
I have said all this to try to give people a different perspective on this. I try to see everything from all sides, and this was what I came up with.
As a long time Monty Python fan and a recent Tally Hall fan, I can definitely vouch for supporting an art but not one of it's artists or the views therein
At least rob and ross unfollowed joe
I’m pretty sure rob and joe have been on sour terms before this happened so I’m not sure what to make of that, but also poor Ross. Man wanted to help Joe and look where that’s ended
Even if he needs mental help, he was still talking to someone half his age for 2 years
Joe does seriously need help, but if the rest of the band can't get him to commit to it then I doubt he will any time soon, and thats a shame because (if what the rest of the band are saying is true) his mental decline is the primary reason there's no plan to record / tour again
Yeah Ross was saying that he was trying to help Joe out for a while and got less than nothing in return for it so I feel bad for him because I’ve been there, but also it’s funny in a way that Joe was eager for the band to reunite without realizing he was one of the things stopping them apparently (also his weird thing towards rob doesn’t help lol)
Its a shame, he really needed to seek professional help. He might be too far gone but I don't know.
‘Do you want a banana’ got me thinking
💀
I'm actually a little relieved to have seen this video, the way people in general are reacting to this strikes me as a little immature and uninformed. It's been peeving me a little so ive tried not to look at too much stuff about it, but this was more maturely said so I'm comfortable giving my thoughts here. (Strap in, I have a lot LMAO)
For the most part you're right, and I think trying to pretend he doesn't exist or is apart of these bands isn't a great move. I have many reasons to think that but overall its just not smart and, in my opinion, it makes the situation seem ignorable and thus inhuman. Joe is a human with issues and has caused other people problems, ignoring it makes it seem irredeemable and will stunt a probably already very long wait for acknowledgement/apologies. Why would he wanna apologize for something if nobody will accept it, you know? Which, aside from obviously not helping someone's clearly deteriorating mental health, it doesn't serve justice to the victims nor makes it easy for people with intense feelings about the band (i.e., those of us with fixations and special interests, its hard to change/ignore something you feel so heavily for). I think a lot of it strives from (slightly immature) young fans wanting to be in denial or pretend the problems aren't there so they don't have to feel bad about them. But over time you realize denial can only make so many feelings go away, and it's an ugly move for situations like this. Joe is already heavily in denial, clearly, and approaching someone in denial with more denial is a roundabout way of nothing happening. People need to acknowledge/accept it if they even wanna *begin* to see something better from him.
Then- I think its common knowledge but I want to reiterate anyways because you're right and people should know this. Mental health is not an excuse for your actions nor it's consequences, it's simply not. I'm very sure he was under the influence and/or having withdrawals, and has some issues with Psychosis, if not Schizophrenia. Which trust me, is a recipe for not very sane or smart decisions, I don't expect it to be lol. But I don't want people to use it as excuse either and shouldn't justify his actions towards others. The transphobia thing obviously, as that has been ongoing and is clearly something he believes even in sobriety, but I'd say so for the slurs and suggestive things towards the victims too. You probably didn't mean it intently, but I have seen others justify his use of the N-word and language during those calls to being a result of his mental state. Mmm no, he always thought those things, his disconnection from reality just made it harder to hide. A drunk man's words is a sober man's thoughts as they say. I'd also like to mention that I have some issues with psychosis, and even during my worst psychotic episodes where I'd be cussing after every word, I have not said slurs or provoked sexual things in those I shouldn't because I don't have to hide them daily or ever think about them when I'm sane. Again not everyone is agreeing with this but those who are strike me as people who don't have full insight/experience with mentally ill people. You can have issues and still be a good person at heart.
I agree with you on how we need to leave him alone and he most certainly needs to get in a better headspace before he can even begin to acknowledge what happened. I know if I were in that situation I would be loopy 24/7 and genuinely have no clue what's going on lol. I sincerely wish and hope someone can convince him to get some help and he can work out of this rutt, because my basic human empathy does feel bad for him. I don't like seeing anyone in this low of a spot... but I can't help holding him to standards, and equally hoping and expecting him to take accountability when he gets there.
Though... I'm no stranger to these situations and this intense of mental health. It'll take a few years at least if he constantly works on it, and considering hes in his 40s.... 😬he's either gonna be a very wise older man who grew from these mistakes, or hes just gonna be one of the worst who hates everyone around him. I'm expecting the ladder but... I digress. Whatever comes of this, I know in the moment, both he and the rest of us are responsible for giving him space and should. He needs time to recollect, we as fans need time to accept it instead of cutting him out and dismissing it. I said it in another comment, and this one's long enough so I won't go into it, but I still think we can listen to Tally Hall/Miracle Musical (those of us who want to, to each their own of course). The other members, as far as I know, are nothing like this and don't deserve less support due to one man's actions.
Joe Hawley has betrayed many many people this week, and a lot of us (including me) feel very torn with this new knowledge. But it isnt anything we can't overcome, and should treat any less human.
as Andrew put it; this isn't the Joe everyone's expected & it's not the Joe the members of Tally Hall know... this is a sick man who desperately needs help.
He needs a wake-up call that he needs that help; he has his friends, but he needs help first and foremost.
I just hope this was a wake-up call that he is loved, he isn't pushed out by the members; and that he's welcomed back if he can get himself the help he needs... and hopefully, there's clarity for Joe after that; where he realises everything was wrong & he can own up to it, and be a better person going forward
FINALLY A REVEAL
great circumstances 😭
Yup..
Both parties were at fault.
Joe needs help, nothing more.
he needs to be condemned to the infirmary
@@kats_are_epik 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
There was a guy named Terry Davis who's known for developing an OS and being schizophrenic and racist
I think the correlation here means that people who are having similar mental problems are more susceptible to having harmful opinions as well as having less of a filter for them
People definitely shouldn't be bothering him about this and instead encouraging him to get help, because to me it's clear that he's only saying these things because of his own mental issues and substance abuse
This is awfully similar to Emily Youcis and Bride/Jack situation (thankfully birdie/Jack is now ok and made a comeback )
I hope he goes to see a therapist sometime, I really want him to be mentally stable. The internet is not a good place for him right now.
Absolutely agree, especially not with everyone trying to get reactions out of him on Twitter/X. Truly expected more from the community :(
I dont like joe. You said it pretty well, no he's not somebody I'd want in my DMs, either.
Eden and Nym did act immaturely, but they're teenagers who have hopefully learned a thing or two about internet safety and I hope the best for them. Lapses of judgment happen, especially as a teenager. As for Joe, I don't think he's really learned because this *keeps* happening. He clearly can't handle having a fanbase and should not be in the public eye. At worst he's a groomer, at best he's just kind of an ass. Regardless, he's not somebody I'd like to throw my money at. He needs rehabilitation, not a platform.
Besides, after being bullied out of the fandom in 2020 for calling this out the first time, tally hall itself is something I've become jaded of. This fandom has a track record of poor decisions.
Honestly, this entire situation is a perfect example of "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". Hawley's fucked-up behavior has been public since like 2017. There's a reason they say don't meet your heroes.
@@perfidiousprophetyeah exactly. I understand the starry eyed fan thing, I was like that for a different band in my younger years, but the two should’ve blocked him the first time he was an ass about something so personal and have been done with it. Doesn’t justify anything he did but they also actively made it worse by going back
as a fan, I expected better of fellow fans. This whole situation makes me extremely sad (TH has been my hyper-fixation/distraction from my own problems, admittedly not my best move)
I don’t support what Joe has said, I do not like what he’s doing but silly tie band is still my favourite.
The way people treat these "celebrities" is actually awful, as if they aren't actual human beings with their own lives and their own problems. These chronically online people are genuinely detrimental to the health of these celebrities, spending all of their time hating on people because of their flaws.
Going out of your way to "expose" a celebrity for something they said, even if you want to point out an injustice or something, is in reality a pretty awful thing to do. All it does is harm the person you're doing it to, they get a giant influx of hate towards them, and if it does cause someone to change, its typically superficial just to get hate off them. Unless they committed a crime or something, just leave people alone, man.
More on point with the video, I don't really think that the dude is genuinely a bad person.
Remember that this guy is a human too. I'm sure your parents do things that you don't like but you still love them too. Yes everyone has flaws but the behavior that this community does in response to them is absolutely unacceptable. Hes got things to work on, yes, but does that warrant the treatment given to him? Not at all, and really nothing ever should warrant that kind of behavior.
Love how quickly you said all the important things. Nicely edited, greatly said
Such a good take on the whole situation, and I couldn’t agree more on how everyone one is being so immature for taking his photo off the posters. More mature than most adults handling this news, and I will continue to love joe and hope that he gets help as well because although nothing he did was okay, at the end of the day he is a human, and is subject to making mistakes same as everyone else.
Also that document I read at like 11pm - 12:30 am
It was released at 2:30 am for me
Well I read it once u posted “joe :(“
Same here
This whole thing sounds like an online mob hungry for blood and I'm disappointed in the band for abandoning him.
They’ve been trying to help him for years and only got more trouble from him for it so I don’t blame them. They’re allowed to have boundaries and limits too
Since hes mentally ill , i just hope he gets help like i just hope so..
He needs one of his friends to convince him for therapy bc like what Mr Tallyball said *he needs his friends to Talk to him not a bunch of teenagers*
@@MarbletheFlooring yeah you and tallyball are right.. But I just hope he could recover
I’m hoping this can act as a reality check for him to change, but it’s probably more likely to just worsen his mental health in the short term. I hope he can see past it and look after himself.
Nobody's gonna talk about the Among Us Joe Hawley pfp?
i will admit it made it a little harder to take those particular screenshots seriously 😭
@@tallyballYT Especially when you consider his old humor back on Tally Hall. He's changed 🤣
I’ve been a Tally Hall fan since I was 9 years old, so I have some opinions on this.
1: This is the first time I am saying this on the internet, and I feel like I’m probably gonna regret it, but I am a moderately conservative person, so I have my own personal opinions on certain things and certain social issues, and some things I have heard Joe say I can agree with to some extent, but I keep my personal beliefs to myself, and I don’t go out of my way to make someone feel bad about their identity. That’s something I disagree with, and I think Joe shouldn’t have talked to that person that way.
2: Same thing you said in the video, people need to leave Joe alone, he is very obviously not well, and I and many others have known that for a long time. But some people can’t get that through their thick skulls. And they think it’s okay to message Joe telling him to harm himself? Yeah, no, that is NEVER okay.
I sincerely hope Joe can get the help that he needs, and I sincerely hope these scumbags on the internet leave him alone.
Thanks for making this video.
This is somewhat unrelated to the topic of the video, but thank you for showing the actual facts of the situation instead of trying to change my mind one way or another. Since the doc has been locked, I've been looking for information on the situation and this is the first source when I wasn't being persuaded to think something, thank you.
I really like Tally Hall, but knowing that Joe doesn't want any help and it's just getting worse makes me really sad.
I dont see any proof of anything except the recorded call, and also eden was the one pushing the convo forward
1:26 - 1:38
I agree with the second part, but as for the ‘proof’ there are so many messages and screenshots that it’s almost irrefutable. Plus Joe hasn’t denied it. As much as I wish it was fake, it doesn’t look like it is at the moment.
@@tallyballYT it could be faked though? I mean after the kwite situtation we should have learnt that we need sufficient proof to think someone did the bad thing, also he didnt deny it or confirm it so you can't really use that argument
the "phone call" is seems to be made with an AI; I used AI voice checker on this audio and it showed that 53.73% of the "call" is AI.
@@introductionoteht7368wow, never thought it would be an ai. Jeez, it’s so hard to be sure about allegations cause of these AI things. Either way I still wish him to get the right mental treatment from a therapist real soon
@@introductionoteht7368ngl he just kinda sounds like ai normally
oh cmon now, the WEEK i get into tally hall i discover month old drama about a band member
I appreciate someone who can give them the benefit of the doubt while still holding them accountable,, very glad i found this video :)
Thank you so much for making this video, this whole situation has been so confusing, and this helped to explain it. I've been a fan of Tally Hall/ Joe Hawley/Miracle Musical since last year. And i fell in love with it all. I particularly liked Joe's work more though. But i think it's time start to separate the art from the artist , and i hope Joe finds help. I loved him so much and i think he is an amazing artist. But obviously his actions were wrong. This whole situation made me so upset, I've looked up to him for a little while now. Everything in the video was well said. It's honestly so sad that he acted like this, but like you said i hope he finds help soon :/
Andrew pretty much just confirmed it’s true
Hawley: Part II
He felt in a hole he couldn't see
I appreciate this video because it’s the first one I’ve even found on all this.
It’s sad to me that this had to be, but now I know, at least an overview, on this situation.
I don’t really know how to collect my feelings on this, they are tangled.
Edit: I read and heard everything provided, and-
It’s just all terrible. I’m sorry to Eden and Nymm that this happened
I really hope everyone heals from this..
it’s hard to process all this. I don’t know if I have much more to say.
Thank you for talking about this :)
np :)
PLEASE, PLEASE READ!!!!
Here's my thing, I agree that what Joey did was awful & terrible, but my issue is that he's an untreated schizophrenic. He's mentally insane, it doesn't excuse all of what he did, but still. So sorry but I don't believe he is actually a racist or a transphobe, he was defiantly not in a good mental state at that point, plus he claims he blacked out after the whole thing happened & he claims that he doesn't remember, which he could be lying, but he could also be telling the truth. I still really think the victims should have gone to the cops instead of the Tally Hall community, & I've always had the mentality that you should always give them the benefit of the doubt & wait judging him until the supreme court has decided (which the victims also didn't take to court which wasn't so wise.)
Damn, his mind really claimed its glory over him
as someone who is trans and of Australian Aboriginal decent, this is something that I don't really know what to think about. the last doc could've been a fake, and I personally think it was, but this is too real. I haven't read the doc (and can't anymore) so I don't know the whole of it but I am not sure that I can support joe's music anymore. tally hall/miracle musical are one of if not my biggest special interests, and joe's writing has influenced my own musical journey in the biggest ways and i honestly don't know if i should throw all of that away or just "hate the sin love the sinner" to ignore what joe did. i don't know. i need some time to think about this. i think we all do
maybe you can find comfort in the fact that we know Joe Hawley was not at all problematic during the days of writing Tally Hall and Miracle Musical songs?
Why abandon your inspirations and aspirations just because they came from this man that did something terrible? That wasn’t how he was, it’s not like you’re supporting him being a terrible person, you were inspired by how he was at his best as an individual, that’s perfectly fine
In my opinion, its okay to listen to Tally Hall and the Miracle Musical. I agree with you on everything and feel the same way- Tally Hall was one of, if not the only, band I could actively listen to all the songs of and never get bored. I feel like its just a hyperfixation but its been going strong for a few years so Im thinking mine is delving into special interest territory as well. But iirc the victims in the doc said we can still listen to Tally Hall. (If you can stand to hear Joe's voice without getting too upset, its up to you of course) It's as they say, separate the art from the artist, and if Tally Hall/Miracle Musical was something very important to you I don't think its morally "incorrect" to continue to listen to them. There are other members of Tally Hall who are still good people as far as I know and deserve the support! One sour gummy in a pack of sweet ones shouldn't taint your desire for the whole thing, and you can't control your feelings towards them.
To me theres no denying that, as terrible as he is, he is a very talented individual. He creates art that speaks to a lot of us personally and (unfortunately) is a real person. You can like what someone creates without supporting their actions, so long as what they created doesn't hurt or involve anyone else. His music with the rest of tally hall isn't hurting or putting anyone directly in danger, thus id say its okay to listen to. I wouldnt listen to his solo albums or financially support him on his own lmao- but its unfair to throw the entirety of Tally Hall/Miracle Musical away and discredit everyone ELSES work just because of him. He is apart of the bands, but he is not the only member of them. To ignore and stop supporting everything he's in does nothing but undermine and dilute his problems (which he alone should be held accountable for) + makes it harder for you to overcome/accept. Could even say it will make you more susceptible to a half-assed apology and can grant you forgiveness perhaps you shouldn't have for him if he does try and make up for it.
He is only one loser in a group of incredible artists. Don't let it destroy the pieces you love.
Thanks for talking about this, you made a really good take on whats going on. I dont think Joe entirely means some of the things that he's done or said, but of course thats not to excuse him.
I already dealt with the joe hawley situation, now I just figured out Orion from the Orion experience has groomed around 18 people. Can I jsut listen to music without them being groomers god😭😭
oh no😭😭
It's a shame because I really love Joe Hawley's work. Especially Tally Hall's Banana Man and Ruler of Everything. I can't condone his transphobia or his sexual comments, but I can still like his songs, both Tally Hall and independent.
Thanks for that video, what happened sucks. Calling a trans person by their dead name is just really shitty since it will definitely trigger the person in a pretty bad way, it’s not excusable at all and all the other things he did aren’t either. But I think people should keep listening to Tally hall and their other works. Lots of bands have awful members and people still listen to their works since the music’s great and yeah, I dunno. If that guy’s an asshole then alright. But the work’s great. It’s not related to his acts. Also we’re kind of the same age and I didn’t expected much people that age knowing about tally hall so that’s sick! Keep on dude
I really like seeing fans thinking like this, I think the same way and I really hope he gets help.
A lot of takes on this issue have really saddened me, so it's nice to hear a reasonable take once in a while.
The Doc: Part II
Its joever
I'm genuinely surprised you're so young! Those are pretty good takes, keep it up!
I struggled to put my opinion into word about this situation and i feel like you said whay ive been struggling to say dude ty for this vid!!
np!
As a fan of Tally Hall, Miracle Musical, and Joe Hawley myself, I sort of refuse to believe that this is true. But I know it's true and this will probably be engraved into my brain forever. I have sort of a Pity/Hate relationship with this stuff because I kinda feel bad for the minor and for Joe himself, mainly because he is not in a great mental condition at the moment and I feel bad for the minor because they had to go through all of this. But I sorta hate the fact that Joe did this, I don't really support the fact that he is transphobic (Considering I'm Transgender myself). But I honestly don't know what to think. Also, I've seen several TikTok comments on videos like this saying *"Who's Joe?? I only remember Bora"* and stuff related to that, which I think it is extremely immature and it goes against what (I think) Andrew said about discluding and editing Joe out of Tally Hall. But Overall, I don't know what to think about this situation. But I feel like I should stay out of this, considering I'm a minor myself. But I still care about what's going on, so I'm just going to view this situation in the sidelines, hopefully not getting into any fights about this. But I'm still getting the Tally Hall Youtooz Plushies.
Somehow not surprised he's insane. Usually the greatest musicians are.
Very well put
Dude Joe truly just is having it, honestly. I don't know any way to say it, but *LEAVE. JOE. HAWLEY. ALONE.* ISTG IM ABOUT TO GO *MARCHING DOWN THE STREET CHANTING IT* TwT
DUDE HE LITERALLY HAS TO DEAL WITH THE STANS
THE DOXXING
THE HACKING
IM *SURPRISED* TALLY HALL IS EVEN RETURNING HONESTLY, WITH HOW MUCH JOE DEALS WITH
---unless they just wont include joe :{
but that would honestly just be worse than anything his fans have done, kicking him out of basically the one thing that brings him happiness
and until people actually leave him alone, im gonna post this on *EVERY SINGLE TALLY HALL VIDEO I CAN FIND*
He just needs help
Ok. Mom’s gonna come in here with some adult talk. Buckle up. Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder characterized by sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children (think 12 and under). He associated with two teenagers from ages 16-19. By the evidence through the doc, the worst he can be accused of is being inappropriately suggestive and saying stuff that was really rude (inappropriate questions, slurs, deadnaming, emotional manipulation…undeniably mean, but not illegal). Grooming is defined as building a relationship with someone vulnerable for the purpose of exploiting them. IMO the doc didn’t lead to a reasonable conclusion that was his intent. It did, however, do a quietly good job showing erratic thought and behavior patterns of a guy who very likely has a primary psychosis- some people close to him have implied untreated schizophrenia.
As for pedophile? Absolutely not. I really wish kids understood how heavy that accusation is, and how unwarranted it is in this circumstance.
Does this excuse his actions? We don’t know. Some people may want to believe that he knew what he was doing [he’s the adult, he knows better, they were just kids, etc]. I’m not convinced. Schizophrenia, untreated, will cause literal alterations to the physical brain structure and composition. Including prefrontal damage- the part of the brain that does short-term memory and decision making. This is all speculation and ultimately is none of our business, but since you asked, I’m putting my thoughts out there. Everybody involved in that situation made some questionable choices. The end.
Bottom line, he’s not well, leave him alone. According to the writers, that was the purpose of the doc and once it was addressed by Andrew, they took it down bc they felt the purpose was fulfilled.
To me, his art is still incredible, Tally Hall made awesome music, and being kind to everyone is always the right answer.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk. 💕
(This is not my writing, i found it on reddit. Creds to TheSillyGooseCometh)
i woke up at 5 am to see a tally hall related youtube channel talk about eoj yelwah 😭
This is the best take on this, ever.
Sure, having a mental illness isn’t an excuse for joes behavior, but he just needs time to heal, time to recoup. I hope he gets help soon.