A little tip I found that works well for the 'tricky' bit of filling the righting bag with water is to hook up the righting bag and put it in the water, then sit on the hull with your legs dangling in the water inside the bag and use them to open the bag up (kind of like a garbage bag in a bin). That way you have plenty of weight to right the boat and can be confident the boat is going to come up the first time.
I turtled my Tornado Catamaran L-.20ft, B-10ft., H-30ft while solo sailing on Lake Mendocino. No way to right it without help but used this trick with the help of a friendly ski-boat: Tie a line to the base of the mast (which is now straight down) Lead it to the stern over the the bottom of the tramoline (now the top) and connect to a tow boat. Keeping the line centered, stand on the back of the tramp to sink the stern. Have the boat pull straight back. The tramp now acts like a giant diving plane and rotates the cat bow over stearn and the sails come up streaming straight back offering the least resistance. It's quite a sight watching that hull towering up and tipping over on top of you. Be sure to hang on or it will quickley sail away from you. The Tornado is a very fragile boat when out of its element, it's no Hobie, but this method worked great with no damage other than my ego. Thanks Frank for the tip before the tip.
I'm not a sailor at all, so I found this interesting. I suppose one would also want to make sure the sail doesn't immediately catch the wind and set sail, leaving you stranded
Hi, I usually just stand on the daggerboard (We sail a f18 and I’m around 110kgs). I’ve always managed to pull the boat back up. Daggerboards are quite strong and are made to withstand some pressure right?
The Hobie salute righting method is an interesting technique. I wonder if it would work with a Weta in shallow water? Do you still have one? If so a test would be interesting because there is currently no known self righting method for that boat, if its not turtled, like in the shallows (edit: I mean, not without mods to the hardware!). It tends to stand on end by itself so using a righting line like that sounds really efficient. It would be cool if you would be the first to pull that off!
Only because the dagger board isn’t as strong as on a monohull, perhaps on certain types of cats they have a thicker dagger board which would be strong enough
I used to stand on my Freestyle 474 dagger boards to get the extra leverage. Those boards were quite strong. I was about 65kg at the time and never used a righting bag.
Interesting technique. Normally you walk to the bow to get the cat into the wind. When you walk to the stern, won't it turn the wrong way round? Or would that be helpful in righting the boat using the forgotten method? You can try it with some more wind, so I don't have to. Thanks!
@@JoyriderTV Very interesting concept. The capsized boat points straight downwind, you walk to the stern, the stern dips, and then the boat rights itself against the wind? Show me!
Can't you put the pull-up cord through the eye of your trapeze wire? This allows you to pull the mast up under better leverage. Greets Dik, Netherlands Dart STING
The leverage is from the last point rope touches the boat going towards you. Then draw a line towards centre of mass from that point. Consider only the force component perpendicular to that line.
If you have a boat to tow and pull from the line, its easier to get the boat up from sterns in the water. The submerged hulls + trampoline have more lateral resistance than towing the boat on its side. Also towing into wind with sterns in in the water helps the boat to stay upright afterwards if there is no crew for the boat.
Try this with a Tornado 🤣 without wind its very difficult to get any cat up again.....didn´t know about the bag thing,, you only need it when sailing solo...which I do sometimes, so thanks for that 👍
Yes!! That's why I've been testing the bag - for any realistic size cat you need 120kg to bring the boat up with zero wind - more wind = less weight required.
Why do so many beach catamarans not have any reefing capability? I have capsized way too many times because of this (and my own incompetence). Please do a video about people who have added their own reefing to Hobie cats. Thanks
My 80s 16 had reef points. Apparently they stopped including them as it weakened the sails with lots of reported rips. Still you'd think they could be suitably reinforced especially with modern materials. Anyway Joe has videos on reefed Hobies
Yes, the Hobie 16, up until very recently had reefing points which reduced the sail area by just over 1/4 The new boats don't have them - My guess is so that the manufacturer saves money. On other boats I'd think maybe they don't have them because of how the locking system works to hold the main up.
A reef would only be suitable for situations where you are not sailing hard on the limits. On a cat we are usually pushing it right to the limits of capsizing and all it takes is a gust, wave or slippage to put it over. A reef wouldn't help in that situation. However, I did add reef points recently to my H14Turbo main when it was getting some repairs and I'll see how it goes. Hopefully it'll help in stronger winds and for coastal trips. Next time I make a new halyard, I'll add a second swage for the halyard lock. In the meantime, I'll try tying the halyard off and hope it holds. Years ago I sailed my Freestyle 474 for 10 days from Sydney to Byron Bay. It had no reefing but I took a second smaller sail and on one rough & windy tailwind day , I swapped the sails on the beach. It did make it much easier to control the cat which I really didn't want to turtle since it was loaded with camping gear and surfboard etc.
At 2:40, i'm thinking maybe you have too much body weight in the water. Have you tried climbing the trampoline while holding the rope as support ? Even a few Kilos of body weight could make a difference, in theory.
Not sure I understand how to flip the boat in the first place without at least a puff of wind. Unless you find yourself in a wind shadow perhaps or a whale playing with your hobie.
A little tip I found that works well for the 'tricky' bit of filling the righting bag with water is to hook up the righting bag and put it in the water, then sit on the hull with your legs dangling in the water inside the bag and use them to open the bag up (kind of like a garbage bag in a bin). That way you have plenty of weight to right the boat and can be confident the boat is going to come up the first time.
Thanks for that, great tip. I'll try it.
I turtled my Tornado Catamaran L-.20ft, B-10ft., H-30ft while solo sailing on Lake Mendocino. No way to right it without help but used this trick with the help of a friendly ski-boat: Tie a line to the base of the mast (which is now straight down) Lead it to the stern over the the bottom of the tramoline (now the top) and connect to a tow boat. Keeping the line centered, stand on the back of the tramp to sink the stern. Have the boat pull straight back. The tramp now acts like a giant diving plane and rotates the cat bow over stearn and the sails come up streaming straight back offering the least resistance. It's quite a sight watching that hull towering up and tipping over on top of you. Be sure to hang on or it will quickley sail away from you. The Tornado is a very fragile boat when out of its element, it's no Hobie, but this method worked great with no damage other than my ego. Thanks Frank for the tip before the tip.
yes, I can Imagine that would be quite an intimidating sight seeing 6m of Tornado coming down!!
for the tricky bit, if you hold the bag open underwater and trace out figure 8's with it it will fill fast and full.
Thanks for the tip!
I'm not a sailor at all, so I found this interesting. I suppose one would also want to make sure the sail doesn't immediately catch the wind and set sail, leaving you stranded
That would certainly be another consideration.
Unfortunately, on a boat this size - never going to happen....
We used to do it this way single-handed on the Tornado all the time. Dig the corner in, pivot and rotate around.
In zero wind, I couldn't see how it would be possible.
@@JoyriderTV I guess the extra floatation in the hulls makes the difference. Appreciate the effort in trying.
I think the clip on trampoline bag on a dart 18 was designed to be used as a righting bag but I've never seen one used
I wouldn't have thought so, but it is possible of course - if it holds water.
Maybe tieing to the end of the boom?
Once the sail is perpendicular the boom should extend past the hull and create a lever arm.
That could work, but I think it would be very difficult to engineer whilst in the water
Hi,
I usually just stand on the daggerboard (We sail a f18 and I’m around 110kgs). I’ve always managed to pull the boat back up. Daggerboards are quite strong and are made to withstand some pressure right?
I think that the strength very much depends on the type of boat - on the Hobies - sadly not so strong.
The Hobie salute righting method is an interesting technique. I wonder if it would work with a Weta in shallow water? Do you still have one? If so a test would be interesting because there is currently no known self righting method for that boat, if its not turtled, like in the shallows (edit: I mean, not without mods to the hardware!). It tends to stand on end by itself so using a righting line like that sounds really efficient. It would be cool if you would be the first to pull that off!
I never had a Weta. I'd love to try one though.
I think It could work!!
@@JoyriderTV Oh Sorry, I must have confused you with another. Would be awesome though!
I usually stand on the dagger board or is that frowned upon?
Only because the dagger board isn’t as strong as on a monohull, perhaps on certain types of cats they have a thicker dagger board which would be strong enough
I used to stand on my Freestyle 474 dagger boards to get the extra leverage. Those boards were quite strong. I was about 65kg at the time and never used a righting bag.
Interesting technique. Normally you walk to the bow to get the cat into the wind. When you walk to the stern, won't it turn the wrong way round? Or would that be helpful in righting the boat using the forgotten method? You can try it with some more wind, so I don't have to. Thanks!
For me, the usefulness of going to the back is if the boat is pointing straight downwind, you can flip it over like in attempt number 1.
@@JoyriderTV Very interesting concept. The capsized boat points straight downwind, you walk to the stern, the stern dips, and then the boat rights itself against the wind? Show me!
@@charanvantijn541 oh, when I say flip it, I mean put it on the other side - not righting.
Can't you put the pull-up cord through the eye of your trapeze wire? This allows you to pull the mast up under better leverage.
Greets Dik, Netherlands
Dart STING
I believe that the leverage is the same.
I think I'll draw some pictures of my understanding in the Q+A
Thanks
The leverage is from the last point rope touches the boat going towards you. Then draw a line towards centre of mass from that point. Consider only the force component perpendicular to that line.
How aboat the Bag plus the Hobie salute method did we try that?
I didn't try that as it would be a bit too much of a juggle - the circus was already in town!!
@@JoyriderTV Just bustin em bro...
Thank you for all the testing and info you provide!
@@eddrm4685 Ha! Yes.. 🤩🤩🤩
I live in the uk and cant find the righting bag online is it home made?
Yeah same thoughts here. Would be en nice joyridertv gadget
Gardening bag, bit or rope and a couple of small blocks.
The mk1 was a green garden bag - that worked well enough.
Yes, I'll look into making one to put in the online store.
If you have a boat to tow and pull from the line, its easier to get the boat up from sterns in the water. The submerged hulls + trampoline have more lateral resistance than towing the boat on its side. Also towing into wind with sterns in in the water helps the boat to stay upright afterwards if there is no crew for the boat.
Thanks.. Great tips.
EZ Righter system
Why don't you stand on the lower daggerboard and right it how you would right a dinghy
Hi Kate, there's too much risk of damage - the daggerboards and the cases aren't as strong as on a mono.
Try this with a Tornado 🤣 without wind its very difficult to get any cat up again.....didn´t know about the bag thing,, you only need it when sailing solo...which I do sometimes, so thanks for that 👍
Yes!! That's why I've been testing the bag - for any realistic size cat you need 120kg to bring the boat up with zero wind - more wind = less weight required.
Why do so many beach catamarans not have any reefing capability?
I have capsized way too many times because of this (and my own incompetence).
Please do a video about people who have added their own reefing to Hobie cats.
Thanks
My 80s 16 had reef points. Apparently they stopped including them as it weakened the sails with lots of reported rips. Still you'd think they could be suitably reinforced especially with modern materials.
Anyway Joe has videos on reefed Hobies
Yes, the Hobie 16, up until very recently had reefing points which reduced the sail area by just over 1/4
The new boats don't have them - My guess is so that the manufacturer saves money.
On other boats I'd think maybe they don't have them because of how the locking system works to hold the main up.
A reef would only be suitable for situations where you are not sailing hard on the limits. On a cat we are usually pushing it right to the limits of capsizing and all it takes is a gust, wave or slippage to put it over. A reef wouldn't help in that situation.
However, I did add reef points recently to my H14Turbo main when it was getting some repairs and I'll see how it goes. Hopefully it'll help in stronger winds and for coastal trips. Next time I make a new halyard, I'll add a second swage for the halyard lock. In the meantime, I'll try tying the halyard off and hope it holds.
Years ago I sailed my Freestyle 474 for 10 days from Sydney to Byron Bay. It had no reefing but I took a second smaller sail and on one rough & windy tailwind day , I swapped the sails on the beach. It did make it much easier to control the cat which I really didn't want to turtle since it was loaded with camping gear and surfboard etc.
At 2:40, i'm thinking maybe you have too much body weight in the water. Have you tried climbing the trampoline while holding the rope as support ? Even a few Kilos of body weight could make a difference, in theory.
Looking at it - the weight and leverage of the rig compared to my weight and leverage - it was never going to happen.
Not sure I understand how to flip the boat in the first place without at least a puff of wind. Unless you find yourself in a wind shadow perhaps or a whale playing with your hobie.
Yes, I turned it over by abseiling on the leeward trapeze - to give this method a try.