Rolex , Patek Philippe - How Grey Market Dealers Get Rare Watches

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  • Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
  • Rolex , Patek Philippe - How Grey Market Dealers Get Rare Watches
    In today's episode of Federico Talks Watches I am joined by my partner from Delray Watch Supply, John. We discuss how non-authorized dealers get rare watches. Watches like the Rolex Hulk, Rolex Batman, Patek Philippe 5711 Nautilus amongst others. Rare watches by Rolex and Patek Philippe that have very very long waiting lists but seemingly can be obtained by other non-authorized dealers. Let us know what you think in the comments section below.
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 136

  • @JoeGiz64
    @JoeGiz64 6 років тому +2

    Fed, this was the best no nonsense description of how the grey market works I’ve come across. I’ve asked dealers, fellow hobbyists, etc. This was the first time I could conceptualize the end to end process. Great content as always.

  • @EricJohnson-vi6ri
    @EricJohnson-vi6ri 6 років тому +7

    crazy enough, a year ago in Chicago, it took me months to find a rhodium fluted dj 41 on jubilee, but I was called twice by two different dealers letting me know that there was a batman available. One major dealer even had one in stock on the spot...

  • @BruceWilliams
    @BruceWilliams 6 років тому +15

    Such a great video, well done!

  • @thewatchenthusiast5729
    @thewatchenthusiast5729 6 років тому +6

    Great video Federico. Honest , straight talk. That is very refreshing.

  • @fpoynton1604
    @fpoynton1604 6 років тому +7

    An insightful look at the big business side of what externally appears to be a world focused on technology design and artistry. Very interesting in it's own right and the true reason business is able to create and innovate. Thanks again guys. Keep it up. Its always fun to learn more.

  • @woocoheed
    @woocoheed 6 років тому +8

    Good insight, guys. That’s why we watch this channel

  • @rkarkada
    @rkarkada 6 років тому +5

    Great video Fed! Very informative!

  • @EMKWANREVIEWS
    @EMKWANREVIEWS 6 років тому +7

    Interesting... It's helpful to know the background and business.

  • @katalysis
    @katalysis 5 років тому +1

    This is one of the best videos on watches on UA-cam.

  • @kofiofosu9051
    @kofiofosu9051 6 років тому +3

    Thank you guys. This is as honest a video about the biz that it gets! It’s a wicked, wicked game.

  • @LarryKippings
    @LarryKippings 6 років тому +6

    Good video, honest, amusing too.

  • @timecopnj2975
    @timecopnj2975 6 років тому +7

    Great info guys.. great video. If no one wants datejusts I’ll take them!!!

  • @doublewides
    @doublewides 6 років тому +1

    Wow, very eye opening discussion on how the watch market works. Thanks Federico for the insight.

  • @kabir52
    @kabir52 6 років тому +2

    Really insightful, thanks for making this video!

  • @dlanor369
    @dlanor369 6 років тому +2

    This was a really good video man. Keep it up :D

  • @mountainhobo
    @mountainhobo 6 років тому +13

    "Nobody wants a datejust" 😭

  • @fredo1070
    @fredo1070 6 років тому +2

    Fascinating, more talk about the business side of watches please.

  • @gtheking
    @gtheking 6 років тому +1

    I worked at car dealership and the order is the same. If there's a high demand for certain type of car and the dealership will be offered extras if they take off the manufacturer hand some low demand cars.

  • @AbdulRWatches
    @AbdulRWatches 6 років тому +1

    I would recommend travelling to other countries, for example, i was in Sofia, and in Rolex AD, they had all the sports models, including a GMT II white gold, Daytona Ceramic, Platin and gold, and several submariners. So if you search eastern European ADs, or airport AD

  • @danielkatz7516
    @danielkatz7516 6 років тому +2

    Eye opener, thx guys

  • @maestropogo
    @maestropogo 6 років тому +1

    Great Video, that explain everything. Thank you!

  • @defenstrator4660
    @defenstrator4660 6 років тому

    As a businessman I appreciate your candour. High end watches may be an emotional purchase but business is business. They’re selling product and if it doesn’t move no talk about tradition is going to save the company.

  • @wineattorneys
    @wineattorneys 6 років тому +1

    Great video. Really appreciate the insight.

  • @Eric_Nielsen
    @Eric_Nielsen 6 років тому +2

    One of your best videos ever. And funny as hell too!

  • @ShipDimOfficial
    @ShipDimOfficial 6 років тому +2

    Such a great video. Must be tough for some ADs to survive. Federico, I dare you to make video and tell us what you think it costs Rolex to manufacture a Submariner and what they sell it to the AD for. I am always wondering.

  • @shnam13
    @shnam13 6 років тому +1

    thanks for the industry insight!

  • @gregfowler8332
    @gregfowler8332 6 років тому +1

    Great insight was wondering that myself

  • @robertoruiz7069
    @robertoruiz7069 6 років тому

    good honest video ,this hopefully will help people that don't know anything about higher end watches get a grasp on just how hard it is to do business . thank you Frederico

  • @christopherma1718
    @christopherma1718 6 років тому +2

    informative video, more like this plz

  • @DDYTKP
    @DDYTKP 5 років тому

    Thanks for breaking this down! The math makes sense in a market where there are hot watches, but what happens to grey dealers when the watch market slows down a lot like in a recession? I’m sure some models are still hard to get but the price premium must come down on those hot watches - so does it just make the business less profitable or do people sometimes continue to operate at a loss?

  • @bubbab7792
    @bubbab7792 6 років тому +1

    Nice show guys. I'm not a Rolex fan but I have to commend them for product management and control. Nobody does it better. Wish they had better customer service. Thanx gents.

  • @johnholtz1205
    @johnholtz1205 4 роки тому

    I just bought an Oris Aquis green dial... it’s going to take a month to get... I’m new to watches but seems crazy.

  • @geroldatlarge1841
    @geroldatlarge1841 6 років тому +1

    Who knows what gets hot when. 2 to 3 years ago one could get a batman without much hassle. It caught on and now is the cool rage. Such is the watch game. Right time, right place, and a good eye before the trend starts.

  • @charlesfield9286
    @charlesfield9286 6 років тому

    Always looking forward to your posts. Never disappoints

  • @thomasmargolis3313
    @thomasmargolis3313 5 років тому

    So they "dump" the watches at the msrp to the gray market, or at some lesser price?

  • @tomace664
    @tomace664 6 років тому +1

    Great info guys. Am I to understand that if I wanted a Rolex Datejust the grey market dealer is the best option? Keep up the good work!!!

  • @timyoungnc
    @timyoungnc 6 років тому +1

    Great video! Trying to talk myself into buying a new date Rolex Sub stainless at full price new. If I had to sell it in six months, what would I get for it if I had the box and warranty?

  • @binkymagnus
    @binkymagnus 6 років тому

    I’m curious what you think about the companies that sell direct over the internet or through brand boutiques.

  • @thomasmargolis3313
    @thomasmargolis3313 5 років тому

    SO if one of these difficult to get watches are sold as described, its at a break even price? other ?

  • @fabiograzioli2149
    @fabiograzioli2149 6 років тому

    Hey Fed, do you have any recomendations of places to buy watches in Miami? I'll be visiting in June and wanted to upgrade my collection. Of course, I'll be checking Delray Watch as well.

  • @PhilipBeresford
    @PhilipBeresford 6 років тому +14

    The brands really need to change that policy. It's insanity and only hurts them in the long run. If an AD's contract is to take 50 watches a month, let them order the exact references that they want. Don't make them take bucket loads of crap they can't sell, just on the hope that they may get a hulk and a batman. Increase production of popular watches, and decrease production of the unpopular models. This would starve the grey market of stock, reduce discounting, increase brand prestige, increase retained secondary value, reduce wait lists, and increase client and AD happiness.
    Am I missing a reason as to why this can't happen? Or is it just out of typical Swiss resistance to change?

    • @gold6813
      @gold6813 6 років тому +2

      P Bero Frederico made a recent video explaining exactly why the grey market helps retain the value of certain watches.

    • @k3uw69
      @k3uw69 6 років тому +1

      I'm just taking a gander here but I think the reason for that is, for example, Rolex can't just reduce their production of datejusts. In order to reduce production numbers they have to fire their employees who make the datejusts, or retrain them to work on other models, which cost more time and money. But they can't just fire people, or make them to go on forced leaves.
      Like Alex's example above, you can't just reduce the production numbers of GMC Arcadias. There are only specific factories that work on Arcadias, and are tooled specifically for assembling Arcadias. If they reduce production numbers for the Arcadia, they have to stop production at the factory, and their workers are our of the job. And that's just not fair to the employees. I mean, its not their fault the Arcadia isn't selling, so they shouldn't get punished for it. So they keep pumping out Arcadias so the employees can get paid, its upt the marketing and sales arm of the company to get rid of the stock produced. I think its the same with watches.

    • @bombardierbeaumont8351
      @bombardierbeaumont8351 6 років тому +2

      k3uw69 thats a load of bull**** if a company needs to offload employees it will without any hesitation. Its about streamlining your buisiness for maximum profit. And If a car is not selling it will simply go out of production. Simple.

    • @Anthropomorphic
      @Anthropomorphic 5 років тому

      Kind of a funny example, but comics work on a similar principle as well. Rarer variant covers are only sold to stores that order large amounts of standard editions.

  • @julzmax956
    @julzmax956 6 років тому +5

    Obviously very few people want those Datejusts so why not replace it with a new model or discontinue it entirely. I get that's it's a classic but it's a slow seller.

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому +2

      I mean they sell ok. They are slow sellers compared to other Rolex models and Rolex forces you to buy a ton of them if you are an AD. But they do sell.

    • @fluffyfreak505
      @fluffyfreak505 6 років тому +1

      Federico Talks Watches say i had 7k cash in hand, and walked into a rolex AD, think id be able to walk out with a steel DJ 41mm?

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому +1

      I do not know how much they retail for off the top of my head... the 41mm do well... 36 you could walk out for sure.

    • @fluffyfreak505
      @fluffyfreak505 6 років тому +1

      Federico Talks Watches the 36 would look like i had to borrow my chicks watch on me though..... lol

    • @avntori
      @avntori 6 років тому +1

      i also think that Datejust's sell too if the customers that want subs or hulks when they walk in to AD'S don't have them then the second best alternative is to get a Datejust

  • @mannysingh6618
    @mannysingh6618 5 років тому

    Top vid, like the honesty..

  • @danielkatz7516
    @danielkatz7516 6 років тому

    Great to see you John, talked to you on the phone a few times

  • @TribecaSam
    @TribecaSam 5 років тому +2

    Why doesn’t Rolex manufacture more popular steel sports watches and less unpopular date just?

  • @humptydoo5249
    @humptydoo5249 6 років тому

    great video, thanks

  • @bertlemieux7169
    @bertlemieux7169 6 років тому +1

    This explains why the authorized dealers have the two tone sky dweller in multiple examples but no steel sky dwellers. The wait list on the blue dial steel Sky is 6 clients deep at my local AD so I’m waiting for a white or a black dial Sky (and I’m a repeat customer at that AD). Someone needs to explain to Rolex that two tone is a little out of fashion.

  • @georgeshalhub5312
    @georgeshalhub5312 6 років тому

    Federico what do you think about the speedmaster racing co-axel?

  • @sealevelbear
    @sealevelbear 6 років тому

    Awesome video!!

  • @theamericano3966
    @theamericano3966 6 років тому

    Anyone got a new 126660 Rolex Sea Dweller Deep Sea black dial yet? (26th May 2018 ish)

  • @barryisland3349
    @barryisland3349 6 років тому +7

    Ad's could sell every steel sports that arrives without any problems..the issue is all the others in the range..they are the dogs...my local AD gets 75 calls a week from customers wanting the ceramic Daytona and the Sub no date..he gets 3 maybe 4 a year....why would they sell a customer the Daytona at list when they can sell to their Grey Market buddy at 20% over list something he obviously cannot do with his customers as long as he takes a few dogs...AD's simply cannot survive on the stock they receive on these wanted pieces...

  • @barrylilley3970
    @barrylilley3970 5 років тому

    Hey John P. Agree with Fed. Dump the T shirt 😁. Great channel guys. 👍

  • @aurimasstaskunas3975
    @aurimasstaskunas3975 6 років тому

    Hey Federico i have i question. For example i buy 9 Dj and 1 sub with 40off as a dealer. Does they give me a ad warranty?

    • @eiriknss3727
      @eiriknss3727 4 роки тому

      No, they do not. The watches are moved "under the table" and everything is payed with cash.

  • @stefanosilvestri2610
    @stefanosilvestri2610 6 років тому

    I just don't get it, if the request of the market of 5 subs vs 1 date just, why they keep producing the opposite? just plain crazy production strategy

  • @brysoga
    @brysoga 6 років тому +5

    Would it not be win win for everyone if the manufacturers just made the watches that punters want!

  • @miguelg1370
    @miguelg1370 6 років тому

    Good video!

  • @CognitiveNJ
    @CognitiveNJ 6 років тому

    Federico getting all the ladies. Watch game so on point !

  • @charliebrewer617
    @charliebrewer617 6 років тому +1

    Interesting video. Kind of the dark underbelly of the watch world. Does Rolex ever wait in the alley for the grey market dealers to come out the back door of an AD?

  • @markplayford5836
    @markplayford5836 6 років тому

    Interesting stuff guys thanks. Just glad I'm not an AD especially high end! Ha

  • @oscargustavoarcosruiz8793
    @oscargustavoarcosruiz8793 6 років тому +2

    Hey Federico! A question not related to the topic of today's video:
    Can you explain the meaning of your tattoos? or at least tell us what they are? Because I never get to see them well.

  • @eahmhelmoa
    @eahmhelmoa 6 років тому +1

    So my question is why brands keep making unpopular models? Why rolex keep making lot of date justs and patek keep making lot of Calatravas?

  • @bombardierbeaumont8351
    @bombardierbeaumont8351 6 років тому

    What I can't understand is why Rolex continue to make a particular model that is not selling well. For example take all these date justs you won't be able to sell ..and we'll give you 3 hulks??

  • @oldbutrocking
    @oldbutrocking 6 років тому

    Great info. But wouldn't it be easy for Rolex to trace back the serial of a watch from grey market to the original AD? Wouldn't the AD get in trouble with Rolex for doing that?

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому

      How would they trace it? The grey market wont give the serial number to Rolex.

    • @oldbutrocking
      @oldbutrocking 6 років тому

      Federico Talks Watches I bought my ex a new Yachtmaster from a Miami grey market dealer and I got to see all paperwork before buying it. I could have been anybody

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому

      That is not sustainable for rolex to go dealer to dealer and pretend to be a buyer and take notes on serial numbers. Thats why I dont think it is particularly dangerous.

  • @seltenfotog3115
    @seltenfotog3115 6 років тому

    Gloves off.....damn great video!

  • @Illinination53
    @Illinination53 6 років тому +2

    Where do you see the hulk prices going ?

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому +3

      I think they will level out soon. But as of right now, they are climbing.

    • @ShipDimOfficial
      @ShipDimOfficial 6 років тому

      Level out as in drop back to 7-8k? Or just stop climbing?

    • @Illinination53
      @Illinination53 6 років тому

      Ruvim stoyan not sure about that low of a price ...I'm guessing the 9k mark is the bottom for this piece

  • @Rocco4429
    @Rocco4429 6 років тому

    Do you like the CATALINA?

  • @johntempleton2659
    @johntempleton2659 6 років тому

    30 seconds into talking of Patek I got an advertisement for there new watch

  • @kongmw
    @kongmw 6 років тому

    So next time I get a Rolex from an AD I’m gonna ask them for 25% off retail because “Fed said you guys get 37% discount from manufacturer” 😂

  • @tll2012
    @tll2012 6 років тому

    Ok I get it, but I have to ask the obvious, Why don't they make more steel sports models and less Date Justs? Every AD I go into is flooded with 50 DJ's and nothing else.

    • @eiriknss3727
      @eiriknss3727 4 роки тому

      Because that would take away exclusivity from the Rolex brand. It's human psychology. People want what they can't get. People want the sports models stainless. If Rolex starts flooding the market and meet supply on these, then the prices would go down, alot. And that would hurt Rolex brand and how people perceive them as luxury items and exclusive and very hard to get. If anyone can walk into a store and buy one now that stainless steel is so popular, they would be no different than Breitling or Omega.

  • @paulh2468
    @paulh2468 6 років тому

    Thanks Federico. It sounds like the market is saturated, like cars. If tastes are changing, towards iWatch, etc., the luxury watch market may hit the wall again, like when quartz first came out. It also seems like Rolex operates like DeBeers, creating a marketing image combined with an artificial shortage, to keep prices afloat.

  • @fkurcik
    @fkurcik 6 років тому

    Green color on a Rolex watch looks strange. I'm not sure why it's suddenly so popular.

    • @thematthewlong
      @thematthewlong 6 років тому

      Frantisek Kurcik because most are cautious and buy the black sub.. but everyone envys the guy who had the balls to break away from the crowd and go hulk!

  • @stevenuk
    @stevenuk 6 років тому

    good video... and Rolex do supply the grey-market directly! shameless!

  • @iWatchmaker
    @iWatchmaker 6 років тому

    Hey Federico, Patek is only making 55,000 watches a year currently. Just thought you should know the real number!

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому +2

      I was told it was well over 100,000 once you count their quartz pieces.

    • @iWatchmaker
      @iWatchmaker 6 років тому

      Federico Talks Watches when I started my apprenticeship they told me production was at 55,000 last year, but I can ask tomorrow and confirm. I’ll keep you updated!

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому +1

      Oh great, my number comes from 2012 when I worked for Wempe... Ask them specifically to include all quartz and ladies models in the numbers.

  • @fezario
    @fezario 6 років тому

    Fede how long do I have to wait till this insanity ends with the prices of cerachrome Daytona’s? I don’t want to pay 20k for one?

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому +1

      I have no idea. I thought it would be over by now.

    • @jcdaly535
      @jcdaly535 6 років тому

      The problem is that the list is closed and inventory completely non existent... don’t really see prices dropping, I hope they do but don’t see it happening!

    • @fezario
      @fezario 6 років тому

      Make it staaahp!

  • @HtPt
    @HtPt 4 роки тому

    What if everyone stops buying from Grey market Dealers ?...

  • @vernplum
    @vernplum 5 років тому

    Thanks. Very insightful. Now I know why the ADs are just all awash with DJs and nothing else. It's a sad state of affairs...

  • @jason042779
    @jason042779 6 років тому +4

    Do you have to wear jorts to be in the watch and jewelry industry? LOL

  • @TautologyTechSystems
    @TautologyTechSystems 6 років тому

    And not a word about warranties? What's up with that? The AD sells the watch, why can't they stamp the card? How can a grey market dealer even pretend to offer a warranty on a watch they can't possibly service?

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому

      Lots of dealers have watchmakers on staff. Lots of cards come stamped. It all depends who you buy from.

    • @TautologyTechSystems
      @TautologyTechSystems 6 років тому

      Federico Talks Watches Let say the major grey market guys. How could Jomashop offer a warranty on an Omega when they can't even get parts for one? When they buy from ADs is the warranty just part of the deal for them? They get the watches cheaper without the warranty? I've heard stories where people will send their Omega in under the Jomashop warranty and Jomashop won't even try to fix the watch, they will just sit on it for months until the owner gives up all hope and then they will offer them a partial refund. Shady stuff.

  • @aaronschen9896
    @aaronschen9896 6 років тому +1

    They really do have to play games to keep a perception of scarcity and exclusiveness. People want some of these watches simply because they are hard to get and Rolex keeps them hard to get to maintain the perceived scarcity. I'm sure Rolex would happily make 100k green subs a year if they could sell them all AND maintain the desirability. It must be a delicate balancing act for them. What do you think their cost of goods sold is on a sub? $1000? I personally would rather have a DJ than any sub and am waiting for these drawer fulls of DJ to flood the market. I 50% admire Rolex for great marketing and branding and am 50% disgusted by it. Porsche are the other masters at this. They do nearly the exact same thing. Want to get a GT3RS allocation? You better sell a shit ton of Panameras first, preferably ones with the 30k worth of near zero cost options.

    • @randalfordphoto
      @randalfordphoto 6 років тому

      I agree with you. Admire Rolex but more so disgusted by Rolex... Actually driving me personally away from Rolex AND Tudor to look at other brands you can actually acquire at retail. I say Tudor simply because it's the same as giving your money to Rolex even tho they don't play the supply game so much.

  • @purplerain266
    @purplerain266 6 років тому

    Lol, I will never buy a datejust after this video.

  • @deathbyautopsy8660
    @deathbyautopsy8660 6 років тому

    So why do Rolex keep making watches no one wants?

  • @omegaseamaster300m4
    @omegaseamaster300m4 6 років тому

    Patek make 50.000 watches not 100k

  • @Illinination53
    @Illinination53 6 років тому +2

    Breitling haters on this channel....sheesh.

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому +3

      I know ive been ragging on them a lot lately. But they are the PERFECT example of a brand that is not doing well right now... Way to many pieces being produced and not enough buyers... I think they make great watches though. I personally own a Chronomat Evolution.

    • @Illinination53
      @Illinination53 6 років тому

      Federico Talks Watches agree buddy, I just bought their new GMT and love It , keep up the great content .

    • @FedericoTalksWatches
      @FedericoTalksWatches  6 років тому +1

      Timeforfun, it has nothing to do with bad watches, it has EVERYTHING else to do with them dumping stock at 28 cents on the dollar all over the place. Market is saturated, they have become nearly impossible to sell. It is the simple truth, unfortunately.

    • @mountainhobo
      @mountainhobo 6 років тому

      "They crack jokes about the breitling brand as if they can produce better. " -- Logical fallacy alarm. Look up "Tu quoque".

    • @polarroller4848
      @polarroller4848 6 років тому +1

      I love my Navitimer 1 with the B01 movement. Fed, you sang high praises on this movement a ciupleyears back, that resonated with me and helped in my decision to buy the new Navi.

  • @bearclooneywatches4186
    @bearclooneywatches4186 6 років тому +6

    First

  • @renaissance6745
    @renaissance6745 6 років тому +2

    grossly overrated sick and tired of Rolex there is far better out their with out the stupid prices how do i know i own them !!
    A great watch gets its value from the workmanship and the various complications, not a bunch of blingy novelty to make them attractive to tasteless rappers, sports personalities et,c. A watch is not meant to be ostentatious, they are meant to be cherished by ladies and gentlemen of good taste. They are not billboards for screaming "LOOK AT ME !"