Rolex , Patek Philippe - How Grey Market Dealers Get Rare Watches
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- Rolex , Patek Philippe - How Grey Market Dealers Get Rare Watches
In today's episode of Federico Talks Watches I am joined by my partner from Delray Watch Supply, John. We discuss how non-authorized dealers get rare watches. Watches like the Rolex Hulk, Rolex Batman, Patek Philippe 5711 Nautilus amongst others. Rare watches by Rolex and Patek Philippe that have very very long waiting lists but seemingly can be obtained by other non-authorized dealers. Let us know what you think in the comments section below.
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Fed, this was the best no nonsense description of how the grey market works I’ve come across. I’ve asked dealers, fellow hobbyists, etc. This was the first time I could conceptualize the end to end process. Great content as always.
crazy enough, a year ago in Chicago, it took me months to find a rhodium fluted dj 41 on jubilee, but I was called twice by two different dealers letting me know that there was a batman available. One major dealer even had one in stock on the spot...
Such a great video, well done!
Great video Federico. Honest , straight talk. That is very refreshing.
An insightful look at the big business side of what externally appears to be a world focused on technology design and artistry. Very interesting in it's own right and the true reason business is able to create and innovate. Thanks again guys. Keep it up. Its always fun to learn more.
Good insight, guys. That’s why we watch this channel
Great video Fed! Very informative!
Interesting... It's helpful to know the background and business.
This is one of the best videos on watches on UA-cam.
Thank you guys. This is as honest a video about the biz that it gets! It’s a wicked, wicked game.
Thank you Kofi!
Good video, honest, amusing too.
Great info guys.. great video. If no one wants datejusts I’ll take them!!!
Wow, very eye opening discussion on how the watch market works. Thanks Federico for the insight.
Really insightful, thanks for making this video!
This was a really good video man. Keep it up :D
"Nobody wants a datejust" 😭
Fascinating, more talk about the business side of watches please.
I worked at car dealership and the order is the same. If there's a high demand for certain type of car and the dealership will be offered extras if they take off the manufacturer hand some low demand cars.
I would recommend travelling to other countries, for example, i was in Sofia, and in Rolex AD, they had all the sports models, including a GMT II white gold, Daytona Ceramic, Platin and gold, and several submariners. So if you search eastern European ADs, or airport AD
Eye opener, thx guys
Great Video, that explain everything. Thank you!
As a businessman I appreciate your candour. High end watches may be an emotional purchase but business is business. They’re selling product and if it doesn’t move no talk about tradition is going to save the company.
Great video. Really appreciate the insight.
One of your best videos ever. And funny as hell too!
Such a great video. Must be tough for some ADs to survive. Federico, I dare you to make video and tell us what you think it costs Rolex to manufacture a Submariner and what they sell it to the AD for. I am always wondering.
thanks for the industry insight!
Great insight was wondering that myself
good honest video ,this hopefully will help people that don't know anything about higher end watches get a grasp on just how hard it is to do business . thank you Frederico
informative video, more like this plz
Thanks for breaking this down! The math makes sense in a market where there are hot watches, but what happens to grey dealers when the watch market slows down a lot like in a recession? I’m sure some models are still hard to get but the price premium must come down on those hot watches - so does it just make the business less profitable or do people sometimes continue to operate at a loss?
Nice show guys. I'm not a Rolex fan but I have to commend them for product management and control. Nobody does it better. Wish they had better customer service. Thanx gents.
I just bought an Oris Aquis green dial... it’s going to take a month to get... I’m new to watches but seems crazy.
Who knows what gets hot when. 2 to 3 years ago one could get a batman without much hassle. It caught on and now is the cool rage. Such is the watch game. Right time, right place, and a good eye before the trend starts.
Always looking forward to your posts. Never disappoints
So they "dump" the watches at the msrp to the gray market, or at some lesser price?
Great info guys. Am I to understand that if I wanted a Rolex Datejust the grey market dealer is the best option? Keep up the good work!!!
Price wise... Probably
Great video! Trying to talk myself into buying a new date Rolex Sub stainless at full price new. If I had to sell it in six months, what would I get for it if I had the box and warranty?
I’m curious what you think about the companies that sell direct over the internet or through brand boutiques.
SO if one of these difficult to get watches are sold as described, its at a break even price? other ?
Hey Fed, do you have any recomendations of places to buy watches in Miami? I'll be visiting in June and wanted to upgrade my collection. Of course, I'll be checking Delray Watch as well.
The brands really need to change that policy. It's insanity and only hurts them in the long run. If an AD's contract is to take 50 watches a month, let them order the exact references that they want. Don't make them take bucket loads of crap they can't sell, just on the hope that they may get a hulk and a batman. Increase production of popular watches, and decrease production of the unpopular models. This would starve the grey market of stock, reduce discounting, increase brand prestige, increase retained secondary value, reduce wait lists, and increase client and AD happiness.
Am I missing a reason as to why this can't happen? Or is it just out of typical Swiss resistance to change?
P Bero Frederico made a recent video explaining exactly why the grey market helps retain the value of certain watches.
I'm just taking a gander here but I think the reason for that is, for example, Rolex can't just reduce their production of datejusts. In order to reduce production numbers they have to fire their employees who make the datejusts, or retrain them to work on other models, which cost more time and money. But they can't just fire people, or make them to go on forced leaves.
Like Alex's example above, you can't just reduce the production numbers of GMC Arcadias. There are only specific factories that work on Arcadias, and are tooled specifically for assembling Arcadias. If they reduce production numbers for the Arcadia, they have to stop production at the factory, and their workers are our of the job. And that's just not fair to the employees. I mean, its not their fault the Arcadia isn't selling, so they shouldn't get punished for it. So they keep pumping out Arcadias so the employees can get paid, its upt the marketing and sales arm of the company to get rid of the stock produced. I think its the same with watches.
k3uw69 thats a load of bull**** if a company needs to offload employees it will without any hesitation. Its about streamlining your buisiness for maximum profit. And If a car is not selling it will simply go out of production. Simple.
Kind of a funny example, but comics work on a similar principle as well. Rarer variant covers are only sold to stores that order large amounts of standard editions.
Obviously very few people want those Datejusts so why not replace it with a new model or discontinue it entirely. I get that's it's a classic but it's a slow seller.
I mean they sell ok. They are slow sellers compared to other Rolex models and Rolex forces you to buy a ton of them if you are an AD. But they do sell.
Federico Talks Watches say i had 7k cash in hand, and walked into a rolex AD, think id be able to walk out with a steel DJ 41mm?
I do not know how much they retail for off the top of my head... the 41mm do well... 36 you could walk out for sure.
Federico Talks Watches the 36 would look like i had to borrow my chicks watch on me though..... lol
i also think that Datejust's sell too if the customers that want subs or hulks when they walk in to AD'S don't have them then the second best alternative is to get a Datejust
Top vid, like the honesty..
Great to see you John, talked to you on the phone a few times
Why doesn’t Rolex manufacture more popular steel sports watches and less unpopular date just?
great video, thanks
This explains why the authorized dealers have the two tone sky dweller in multiple examples but no steel sky dwellers. The wait list on the blue dial steel Sky is 6 clients deep at my local AD so I’m waiting for a white or a black dial Sky (and I’m a repeat customer at that AD). Someone needs to explain to Rolex that two tone is a little out of fashion.
Except the GMT rootbeer
Federico what do you think about the speedmaster racing co-axel?
Awesome video!!
Anyone got a new 126660 Rolex Sea Dweller Deep Sea black dial yet? (26th May 2018 ish)
Ad's could sell every steel sports that arrives without any problems..the issue is all the others in the range..they are the dogs...my local AD gets 75 calls a week from customers wanting the ceramic Daytona and the Sub no date..he gets 3 maybe 4 a year....why would they sell a customer the Daytona at list when they can sell to their Grey Market buddy at 20% over list something he obviously cannot do with his customers as long as he takes a few dogs...AD's simply cannot survive on the stock they receive on these wanted pieces...
Hey John P. Agree with Fed. Dump the T shirt 😁. Great channel guys. 👍
Hey Federico i have i question. For example i buy 9 Dj and 1 sub with 40off as a dealer. Does they give me a ad warranty?
No, they do not. The watches are moved "under the table" and everything is payed with cash.
I just don't get it, if the request of the market of 5 subs vs 1 date just, why they keep producing the opposite? just plain crazy production strategy
Would it not be win win for everyone if the manufacturers just made the watches that punters want!
Good video!
Federico getting all the ladies. Watch game so on point !
Interesting video. Kind of the dark underbelly of the watch world. Does Rolex ever wait in the alley for the grey market dealers to come out the back door of an AD?
Interesting stuff guys thanks. Just glad I'm not an AD especially high end! Ha
Hey Federico! A question not related to the topic of today's video:
Can you explain the meaning of your tattoos? or at least tell us what they are? Because I never get to see them well.
So my question is why brands keep making unpopular models? Why rolex keep making lot of date justs and patek keep making lot of Calatravas?
What I can't understand is why Rolex continue to make a particular model that is not selling well. For example take all these date justs you won't be able to sell ..and we'll give you 3 hulks??
Great info. But wouldn't it be easy for Rolex to trace back the serial of a watch from grey market to the original AD? Wouldn't the AD get in trouble with Rolex for doing that?
How would they trace it? The grey market wont give the serial number to Rolex.
Federico Talks Watches I bought my ex a new Yachtmaster from a Miami grey market dealer and I got to see all paperwork before buying it. I could have been anybody
That is not sustainable for rolex to go dealer to dealer and pretend to be a buyer and take notes on serial numbers. Thats why I dont think it is particularly dangerous.
Gloves off.....damn great video!
Where do you see the hulk prices going ?
I think they will level out soon. But as of right now, they are climbing.
Level out as in drop back to 7-8k? Or just stop climbing?
Ruvim stoyan not sure about that low of a price ...I'm guessing the 9k mark is the bottom for this piece
Do you like the CATALINA?
30 seconds into talking of Patek I got an advertisement for there new watch
So next time I get a Rolex from an AD I’m gonna ask them for 25% off retail because “Fed said you guys get 37% discount from manufacturer” 😂
Ok I get it, but I have to ask the obvious, Why don't they make more steel sports models and less Date Justs? Every AD I go into is flooded with 50 DJ's and nothing else.
Because that would take away exclusivity from the Rolex brand. It's human psychology. People want what they can't get. People want the sports models stainless. If Rolex starts flooding the market and meet supply on these, then the prices would go down, alot. And that would hurt Rolex brand and how people perceive them as luxury items and exclusive and very hard to get. If anyone can walk into a store and buy one now that stainless steel is so popular, they would be no different than Breitling or Omega.
Thanks Federico. It sounds like the market is saturated, like cars. If tastes are changing, towards iWatch, etc., the luxury watch market may hit the wall again, like when quartz first came out. It also seems like Rolex operates like DeBeers, creating a marketing image combined with an artificial shortage, to keep prices afloat.
Green color on a Rolex watch looks strange. I'm not sure why it's suddenly so popular.
Frantisek Kurcik because most are cautious and buy the black sub.. but everyone envys the guy who had the balls to break away from the crowd and go hulk!
good video... and Rolex do supply the grey-market directly! shameless!
Hey Federico, Patek is only making 55,000 watches a year currently. Just thought you should know the real number!
I was told it was well over 100,000 once you count their quartz pieces.
Federico Talks Watches when I started my apprenticeship they told me production was at 55,000 last year, but I can ask tomorrow and confirm. I’ll keep you updated!
Oh great, my number comes from 2012 when I worked for Wempe... Ask them specifically to include all quartz and ladies models in the numbers.
Fede how long do I have to wait till this insanity ends with the prices of cerachrome Daytona’s? I don’t want to pay 20k for one?
I have no idea. I thought it would be over by now.
The problem is that the list is closed and inventory completely non existent... don’t really see prices dropping, I hope they do but don’t see it happening!
Make it staaahp!
What if everyone stops buying from Grey market Dealers ?...
Thanks. Very insightful. Now I know why the ADs are just all awash with DJs and nothing else. It's a sad state of affairs...
Do you have to wear jorts to be in the watch and jewelry industry? LOL
NAILED IT!
And not a word about warranties? What's up with that? The AD sells the watch, why can't they stamp the card? How can a grey market dealer even pretend to offer a warranty on a watch they can't possibly service?
Lots of dealers have watchmakers on staff. Lots of cards come stamped. It all depends who you buy from.
Federico Talks Watches Let say the major grey market guys. How could Jomashop offer a warranty on an Omega when they can't even get parts for one? When they buy from ADs is the warranty just part of the deal for them? They get the watches cheaper without the warranty? I've heard stories where people will send their Omega in under the Jomashop warranty and Jomashop won't even try to fix the watch, they will just sit on it for months until the owner gives up all hope and then they will offer them a partial refund. Shady stuff.
They really do have to play games to keep a perception of scarcity and exclusiveness. People want some of these watches simply because they are hard to get and Rolex keeps them hard to get to maintain the perceived scarcity. I'm sure Rolex would happily make 100k green subs a year if they could sell them all AND maintain the desirability. It must be a delicate balancing act for them. What do you think their cost of goods sold is on a sub? $1000? I personally would rather have a DJ than any sub and am waiting for these drawer fulls of DJ to flood the market. I 50% admire Rolex for great marketing and branding and am 50% disgusted by it. Porsche are the other masters at this. They do nearly the exact same thing. Want to get a GT3RS allocation? You better sell a shit ton of Panameras first, preferably ones with the 30k worth of near zero cost options.
I agree with you. Admire Rolex but more so disgusted by Rolex... Actually driving me personally away from Rolex AND Tudor to look at other brands you can actually acquire at retail. I say Tudor simply because it's the same as giving your money to Rolex even tho they don't play the supply game so much.
Lol, I will never buy a datejust after this video.
So why do Rolex keep making watches no one wants?
Patek make 50.000 watches not 100k
if you count the quartz watches they make over 100k
Breitling haters on this channel....sheesh.
I know ive been ragging on them a lot lately. But they are the PERFECT example of a brand that is not doing well right now... Way to many pieces being produced and not enough buyers... I think they make great watches though. I personally own a Chronomat Evolution.
Federico Talks Watches agree buddy, I just bought their new GMT and love It , keep up the great content .
Timeforfun, it has nothing to do with bad watches, it has EVERYTHING else to do with them dumping stock at 28 cents on the dollar all over the place. Market is saturated, they have become nearly impossible to sell. It is the simple truth, unfortunately.
"They crack jokes about the breitling brand as if they can produce better. " -- Logical fallacy alarm. Look up "Tu quoque".
I love my Navitimer 1 with the B01 movement. Fed, you sang high praises on this movement a ciupleyears back, that resonated with me and helped in my decision to buy the new Navi.
First
This vid was inspired by you!
lol I noticed! This from our conversation last week. Great video
Bear Clooney Watches 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Larry Kippings 👌
Bear Clooney Watches. gold/steel. Rolexes
grossly overrated sick and tired of Rolex there is far better out their with out the stupid prices how do i know i own them !!
A great watch gets its value from the workmanship and the various complications, not a bunch of blingy novelty to make them attractive to tasteless rappers, sports personalities et,c. A watch is not meant to be ostentatious, they are meant to be cherished by ladies and gentlemen of good taste. They are not billboards for screaming "LOOK AT ME !"