Another great video Roger. Another thing to note with those immersion heaters for towel radiators is it's key to install them at the bottom... as heat rises, not at the top, just because it's easier to install! Don't ask me how I know!
Watching this Roger makes me ponder about putting an immersion heater in every single rad in the house, that way you would have the option of gas and electric central heating. If you had an alternative power supply (solar, wind, water) with batteries this would save the cost of a xxxx source heat pump.
I consider myself lucky to have this problem. My cylinder and 120l boiler (s system) is downstairs and there is a bit of hot water convection (= reverse circulation?) going back in to the heating return pipe and all of this heat goes into the first rad upstairs which is fully open towel rail. So when boiler is calling for heat (mostly after a bath or shower) the towel rail is warm and this is brilliant for drying towels during non-heating months
Makes perfect sense, any time you have your hot water turned on it is likely that it's on to have a bath or shower, that means wet towels that need drying. It's so obvious, Another great informative video, Thank You.
I have a combi boiler, and what I've done this summer in order to have the heated towel rad come on, was to set all the rad thermostatic valves to zero and just left the heated towel rad on max. I then set the heating to some on for an hour in the morning and again in the evening. Was that the correct thing to do? Cheers
Have you the link for reverse circulation. I have hot flow to towel rad but no return flow so rad isn’t heating up. It is plumbed as your schematic shows (maybe it’s air). All other rads work fine.
Very good video. Question: I have a new system boiler to all is mains pressure. New cylinder very efficient so airing cupboard doesn't get warm. Can I have a small red in airing cupboard linked also to towel rail so both heat with hot water ? All very close together Thanks very much
If the towel raidiator valve was closed so it doesn't get warm anymore in summer, what would happen if the raidiators/heating was drained, I assume that water would stay in? Secondly If you refilled the system with some protector, inhibitor etc would that feed into to towel raidiator if the value was reopened after the fact?
Great vid. Any idea why my towel rail only heats up some of the time when the hot water is on, it seems very random? They don't have thermostatic valves.
Once the cylinder is hot the water from the boiler won't flow so the towel rail, which is on the same circuit won't heat up until you use the hot water. The way to get around it is to have the boiler temperate set lower than the cylinder temperature so the water keep circulating. It is a bit wasteful in terms of energy but it will work.
Excellent video Rodger as always, if you have towel rails that don’t normally come on in summer can the system be modified to come on as you have it or is it a major headache?
yes that is fine. If you find that one of the two pipes is getting hot you may have a problem with it circulating but that is not normally the case because one of the legs of the heating circuit is closed. I have never had an issue with it.
Hi Roger My old towel rail was 530 mm from center to center on the pipe. What size towel rail would I get to replace it. Or would I have to do some pipe work to connect a new rail. Great videos very informative.
Can I ask you a question pls. We have new boiler from British Gas. Combi. If my room thermostat is lower than 25 the rads/boiler do not come on. Is this because the house is already that temp. But my towel rail is fed from this so I can only get the towel rail/radiators hot if thermostat on 25 or above. My sis has hers on 18 and her rads hot on that. Thanks. X.
Hi Roger. I have a boiler and water cylinder system. My towel radiators heat up when both central heating and hot water system turns on.. but during summer, I don't want the towel rads to turn on. I would rather have them on only with central heating is on. Is there any valve to control that? Or is it a setting in the boiler? Thank you
Which do you prefer Roger? conventional system with a hot water tank or a combi boiler system. From both a failure/repair point of view and installation cost & I suppose ease of both the above. Be interesting to know what a seasoned tradesman thinks.
Ha I like the 'seasoned' bit I will remember that next time somebody calls me an old git. In my house I have two unvented cylinders in tandem. One is a solar pre-heat and the other is heated by the boiler. If you have two or more people using showers or baths at the same time the stored hot water option is good. If you are short of space or there are just two of you in the house then a combi is a good option. They are cheaper to run but not as reliable and there is no backup if they go wrong but these days the service call-out is better.
Hi. My towel rails have always stayed hot since I moved into Mt house 6 months ago whether the heating was on or off however now they have stopped getting hot unless my heating is on. Do you know why this might be? Thanks
have 30°C inside while its 23°C outside, airconditioner running at 100%. And yes, Towel rail feels like it needs to give some extra heat too. Thanks genius Skyscraper architects!
Hi Roger. After draining down my mega flow system to change a radiator valve. After refilling the bathroom towel radiator is Stone cold. Both flow and return pipes are also cold. All other radiators heating up fine. Towel radiator is fully bled, and there's pressure inside, yet completely cold. Flow and return valves are just tap style, not thermostatic. One of the valves is stiff to rotate.. do you think some dirt has blocked the valve when draining down?. Please help..
Hi Gary I am afraid I am turning down jobs on my doorstep and, as much as I love Ireland and the people, it is not possible. I have done a few air source jobs, they work well enough with underfloor heating but you need an electric top up for the hot water system.
Skill Builder ah don’t worry it was just wishful thinking. Do you not think the air to water is powerful enough to heat the house properly? I was thinking of underfloor heating downstairs and Rointe electric radiators upstairs if they are needed? What are your thoughts. Love the videos keep them coming👍👍
So do you have to leave the heating on to get the boiler to produce heat and if u turn the thermostatic valve off won't the pump be fighting a dead end?
Hi Roger. We recently had elements installed in out towel rads but the plumber put them in the supply side of the rad. Any reason why you recommended them being in the return side? He also supplied ones which are too low power so it takes 4 hours to heat the roads but that’s a separate issue 😕
I think it is fine to put it in either side because the rad will not have a flow through it. I am surprised that the towel rail takes that long to heat up. Hopefully there is no flow going through it.
Don't current regs forbid connection to the HW circuit? I thought newly installed towel rails had to be installed as their own independently controlled heating zone?
I have done that with combis when the customer wants several towel rails in different bathrooms but for on towel rail we will just call it a heat leak.
Wouldn't the return from the towel rail in summer cause reverse flow in the radiators as the return from the cylinder would when connected wrongly (they seem to be connecting at a similar part of the circuit)?
Unless there are a few check valves in the system (not shown in diagram) I can see no non-negligible difference between connecting towel rail return anywhere on the return (blue) network, including the return from the cylinder. Hydrostatically speaking, the pressure is just about the same in the whole blue network. Hydrodynamics makes a (negligible) tad of a difference, but that gets very complicated to calculate (anyone remember the Reynolds number?).
Yes you are right to say that in the summer the towel rail comes on with the cylinder but in the winter it works with both. It usually works out well because you have a shower and the towel rail kicks in to dry your towel afterwards.
Weird one this my downstairs rads are fine,upstairs not even Luke warm but towel rail is nice e and hot,2 upstairs rads one towel rail the feed pipes aren't even hot in the rads,they are only few years old so it's not them I know there is a manifold under the hall floor upstairs,I assume it's only one manifold that feeds the towel rail and the rads,so what's the odds it has a blockage of sorts,over a year ago before we fitted new carpet I lifted the boards,looked at manifold and disconnected the micropore feed to the rads,blew through it to the rad where I took feed pipe off and it blew through easily,competent diy but no plumber and I've already replace every radiator bar huge downstairs one and new valves Inc trv,wife's not wanting me to rip up a new carpet but at some point I may need to.
Roger, you're gonna hate me. What if the bathroom rad only gets luke -warm at the bottom, despite being vented off at the top. Yer know, one of them tall, upright panel rads with a sticky out bar bit fer draping yer fluffies over? Some eedjut has not taken note that some of these panel rads, flow and return have dedicated valve points. I.e. It's directionally specific and wont work properly if flow and return aren't piped up correctly.
Hi Loafer That is great. I must admit I didn't know that unless you are talking about the ones where the tapping is at one end only or in the middle. I will investigate now.
@@SkillBuilder No, Roger, not one of these monstrosities (single tapping point, twin rad valves) ua-cam.com/video/yVoAblQvHLs/v-deo.html Just a standard, flat, upright panel rad. They are usually supplied with lhs and rhs valve points, blank and bleed like any standard rad like a standard rad. However, one side is designated flow, the other return. One would assume that the install notes actually make this explicitly clear. The one I sorted out actually still had a red sticker rear on one side (flow) and a blue sticker ont t'other side (return). I can only presume that they have a diverter tube built in to encourage the circulating water to rise up and across the rad before falling to return??? Similar to the monstrosities aforementioned. All I know is someone piped one up incorrectly and I had to rectify the problem. Grabbed both tails to determine f/r and when I whipped rad off, luckily the stickers were still attached on the back.
@@SkillBuilder I wish. We just use a slightly damp towel the next day, starting our day off with sadness. Every time I go to Europe I swear I'm going to install a towel rail when I get back. I never actually follow through, but every morning I wish I did.
Or you can do what I do I ring out my washcloths use it to get all the water off of my body before I use my towel then my towel never gets wet also by doing this it takes loose dead skin off of my body a now Towel Rails cant do that. Another thing if you smell mold and mildew in your towels you are keeping it out too long you need to change with a fresh one. Don't waste your money on this.
If this had been a video about drying towels I would have given you a big heart and a thumbs up, ah what the hell I am going to do it anyway for your stream of consciousness.
Another great video Roger. Another thing to note with those immersion heaters for towel radiators is it's key to install them at the bottom... as heat rises, not at the top, just because it's easier to install! Don't ask me how I know!
Ha! I read you.
Watching this Roger makes me ponder about putting an immersion heater in every single rad in the house, that way you would have the option of gas and electric central heating. If you had an alternative power supply (solar, wind, water) with batteries this would save the cost of a xxxx source heat pump.
Well explained Roger. I always learn something when i watch Skill Builder. Thanks. Stay Safe
Love it. It's electric elements all day for me. Thanks Roger
Do you run it 24/7 or do you have a timer. I want a timer with wifi so i can set without going in loft!!
Always helpful Roger, great work!
I consider myself lucky to have this problem. My cylinder and 120l boiler (s system) is downstairs and there is a bit of hot water convection (= reverse circulation?) going back in to the heating return pipe and all of this heat goes into the first rad upstairs which is fully open towel rail. So when boiler is calling for heat (mostly after a bath or shower) the towel rail is warm and this is brilliant for drying towels during non-heating months
Roman. It is not a problem. The video is just explaining how and why it happens.
Makes perfect sense, any time you have your hot water turned on it is likely that it's on to have a bath or shower, that means wet towels that need drying. It's so obvious,
Another great informative video,
Thank You.
You got it in one. I should have mentioned that.
That was brilliant Roger.
I have a combi boiler, and what I've done this summer in order to have the heated towel rad come on, was to set all the rad thermostatic valves to zero and just left the heated towel rad on max. I then set the heating to some on for an hour in the morning and again in the evening. Was that the correct thing to do? Cheers
That is fine, if it works then it works and there is no need to get complicated.
@@SkillBuilder haha! That's the exact scenario you said was complicated! 🤩
Have you the link for reverse circulation. I have hot flow to towel rad but no return flow so rad isn’t heating up. It is plumbed as your schematic shows (maybe it’s air). All other rads work fine.
Very good video. Question: I have a new system boiler to all is mains pressure. New cylinder very efficient so airing cupboard doesn't get warm. Can I have a small red in airing cupboard linked also to towel rail so both heat with hot water ? All very close together Thanks very much
If the towel raidiator valve was closed so it doesn't get warm anymore in summer, what would happen if the raidiators/heating was drained, I assume that water would stay in?
Secondly If you refilled the system with some protector, inhibitor etc would that feed into to towel raidiator if the value was reopened after the fact?
Great vid. Any idea why my towel rail only heats up some of the time when the hot water is on, it seems very random? They don't have thermostatic valves.
Once the cylinder is hot the water from the boiler won't flow so the towel rail, which is on the same circuit won't heat up until you use the hot water. The way to get around it is to have the boiler temperate set lower than the cylinder temperature so the water keep circulating. It is a bit wasteful in terms of energy but it will work.
Excellent video Rodger as always, if you have towel rails that don’t normally come on in summer can the system be modified to come on as you have it or is it a major headache?
Hello roger - is it ok to leave the valves to the towel rail open then when the heating is off but the element is on ?
Thank you.
yes that is fine. If you find that one of the two pipes is getting hot you may have a problem with it circulating but that is not normally the case because one of the legs of the heating circuit is closed. I have never had an issue with it.
@@SkillBuilder thank you
Another excellent public service video 👏.
Hi Roger
My old towel rail was 530 mm from center to center on the pipe. What size towel rail would I get to replace it. Or would I have to do some pipe work to connect a new rail.
Great videos very informative.
Can I ask you a question pls. We have new boiler from British Gas. Combi. If my room thermostat is lower than 25 the rads/boiler do not come on. Is this because the house is already that temp. But my towel rail is fed from this so I can only get the towel rail/radiators hot if thermostat on 25 or above. My sis has hers on 18 and her rads hot on that. Thanks. X.
Well explained again Roger 🧱👍🏼
Thanks guys.
Skill Builder 🧱👍🏽
Hi Roger. I have a boiler and water cylinder system. My towel radiators heat up when both central heating and hot water system turns on.. but during summer, I don't want the towel rads to turn on. I would rather have them on only with central heating is on. Is there any valve to control that? Or is it a setting in the boiler? Thank you
There should be a valve on the towel rail. If you can't see it send us a picture
www.skill-builder.uk/send
I love these videos. 👍
2:05 and everything in the garden would be lovely? 🤔
Which do you prefer Roger? conventional system with a hot water tank or a combi boiler system. From both a failure/repair point of view and installation cost & I suppose ease of both the above. Be interesting to know what a seasoned tradesman thinks.
Ha I like the 'seasoned' bit I will remember that next time somebody calls me an old git. In my house I have two unvented cylinders in tandem. One is a solar pre-heat and the other is heated by the boiler. If you have two or more people using showers or baths at the same time the stored hot water option is good. If you are short of space or there are just two of you in the house then a combi is a good option. They are cheaper to run but not as reliable and there is no backup if they go wrong but these days the service call-out is better.
Hi. My towel rails have always stayed hot since I moved into Mt house 6 months ago whether the heating was on or off however now they have stopped getting hot unless my heating is on. Do you know why this might be? Thanks
Cheers Roger
have 30°C inside while its 23°C outside, airconditioner running at 100%. And yes, Towel rail feels like it needs to give some extra heat too. Thanks genius Skyscraper architects!
Great video.
Hi Roger, I got two Towel rail summer operation Radiators and does it affect if I upgrade to Tado smart thermostat? Thanks.
You should be fine, the towel rails are not on the controlled circuit so they operate when the boiler fires up
@@SkillBuilder Thank you...
Thanks again. Doesn't it operate as a bypass sometimes for pump overrun?
yes you are right
eazyrat only problem with using it for a bypass customers can turn of towel rad closing the loop
@@roycarter5717 yeah I can say I've ever liked the idea but people do it
Doesn't need a bypass on a 3port, always an open port. Bypass is only req to be compliant with energy efficiency regs
@@98067100 does this mean its not a safety concern or a problem for damaging the boiler?
Hi Roger. After draining down my mega flow system to change a radiator valve. After refilling the bathroom towel radiator is Stone cold. Both flow and return pipes are also cold. All other radiators heating up fine. Towel radiator is fully bled, and there's pressure inside, yet completely cold. Flow and return valves are just tap style, not thermostatic. One of the valves is stiff to rotate.. do you think some dirt has blocked the valve when draining down?. Please help..
.. was working fine prior to draining down to replace the leaking valve on other radiator..
Hey Roger do you fancy coming over to Ireland and plumbing my new build. Air to water system😁 no better man👍👍
Hi Gary
I am afraid I am turning down jobs on my doorstep and, as much as I love Ireland and the people, it is not possible. I have done a few air source jobs, they work well enough with underfloor heating but you need an electric top up for the hot water system.
Skill Builder ah don’t worry it was just wishful thinking. Do you not think the air to water is powerful enough to heat the house properly? I was thinking of underfloor heating downstairs and Rointe electric radiators upstairs if they are needed? What are your thoughts. Love the videos keep them coming👍👍
So do you have to leave the heating on to get the boiler to produce heat and if u turn the thermostatic valve off won't the pump be fighting a dead end?
It is the hot water cylinder valve that fires up the boiler so it will only run on the cylinder circuit
@@SkillBuilder cheers m8 all makes sense
Hi Roger. We recently had elements installed in out towel rads but the plumber put them in the supply side of the rad. Any reason why you recommended them being in the return side? He also supplied ones which are too low power so it takes 4 hours to heat the roads but that’s a separate issue 😕
I think it is fine to put it in either side because the rad will not have a flow through it. I am surprised that the towel rail takes that long to heat up. Hopefully there is no flow going through it.
Skill Builder Thanks Roger. Think the plumber only used little 300w element and they are 1.8m towel rails 🙁
Don't current regs forbid connection to the HW circuit? I thought newly installed towel rails had to be installed as their own independently controlled heating zone?
I have done that with combis when the customer wants several towel rails in different bathrooms but for on towel rail we will just call it a heat leak.
Wouldn't the return from the towel rail in summer cause reverse flow in the radiators as the return from the cylinder would when connected wrongly (they seem to be connecting at a similar part of the circuit)?
Appreciated Roger!
Unless there are a few check valves in the system (not shown in diagram) I can see no non-negligible difference between connecting towel rail return anywhere on the return (blue) network, including the return from the cylinder. Hydrostatically speaking, the pressure is just about the same in the whole blue network. Hydrodynamics makes a (negligible) tad of a difference, but that gets very complicated to calculate (anyone remember the Reynolds number?).
Nacho
If you watch the other video on reverse circulation you will see what happens if you connect the return in the wrong place.
So basically when the cylinder calls for heat that’s when the towel rail warms up? Otherwise the boiler and pump wouldn’t kick in?
Anytime the pump is on, the towel rail will heat up.
Nathan Brown yes exactly sorry I meant in the summer months when you’re not using the heating
Yes you are right to say that in the summer the towel rail comes on with the cylinder but in the winter it works with both. It usually works out well because you have a shower and the towel rail kicks in to dry your towel afterwards.
Because its connected to the hot water side of the boiler.
Weird one this my downstairs rads are fine,upstairs not even Luke warm but towel rail is nice e and hot,2 upstairs rads one towel rail the feed pipes aren't even hot in the rads,they are only few years old so it's not them I know there is a manifold under the hall floor upstairs,I assume it's only one manifold that feeds the towel rail and the rads,so what's the odds it has a blockage of sorts,over a year ago before we fitted new carpet I lifted the boards,looked at manifold and disconnected the micropore feed to the rads,blew through it to the rad where I took feed pipe off and it blew through easily,competent diy but no plumber and I've already replace every radiator bar huge downstairs one and new valves Inc trv,wife's not wanting me to rip up a new carpet but at some point I may need to.
Roger, you're gonna hate me. What if the bathroom rad only gets luke -warm at the bottom, despite being vented off at the top. Yer know, one of them tall, upright panel rads with a sticky out bar bit fer draping yer fluffies over?
Some eedjut has not taken note that some of these panel rads, flow and return have dedicated valve points. I.e. It's directionally specific and wont work properly if flow and return aren't piped up correctly.
Hi Loafer
That is great. I must admit I didn't know that unless you are talking about the ones where the tapping is at one end only or in the middle. I will investigate now.
@@SkillBuilder No, Roger, not one of these monstrosities (single tapping point, twin rad valves)
ua-cam.com/video/yVoAblQvHLs/v-deo.html
Just a standard, flat, upright panel rad. They are usually supplied with lhs and rhs valve points, blank and bleed like any standard rad like a standard rad. However, one side is designated flow, the other return. One would assume that the install notes actually make this explicitly clear. The one I sorted out actually still had a red sticker rear on one side (flow) and a blue sticker ont t'other side (return). I can only presume that they have a diverter tube built in to encourage the circulating water to rise up and across the rad before falling to return??? Similar to the monstrosities aforementioned. All I know is someone piped one up incorrectly and I had to rectify the problem. Grabbed both tails to determine f/r and when I whipped rad off, luckily the stickers were still attached on the back.
Just sent you a link to "contact skill builder". Hope that this meks it clearer. Pity mi home brew isn't as clear.
Friday night artist club 👍👍😀
Every single American who hasn't travelled to Europe: "what is a towel rail?"
How do American's dry their towels? Answer They throw them in the laundry and get out a new one.
@@SkillBuilder that's unfair, they have their Mexican maid to ensure a supply of clean towels, it's far cheaper than new towels.
@@SkillBuilder I wish. We just use a slightly damp towel the next day, starting our day off with sadness. Every time I go to Europe I swear I'm going to install a towel rail when I get back. I never actually follow through, but every morning I wish I did.
Cause it's on the hot water, took me a while to figure this on out when I first bought my house.
I just turn off all the valves on the house radiators and leave the towel rail on. Simples.
Great idea.
Is what I have to do.
Or you can do what I do I ring out my washcloths use it to get all the water off of my body before I use my towel then my towel never gets wet also by doing this it takes loose dead skin off of my body a now Towel Rails cant do that. Another thing if you smell mold and mildew in your towels you are keeping it out too long you need to change with a fresh one. Don't waste your money on this.
If this had been a video about drying towels I would have given you a big heart and a thumbs up, ah what the hell I am going to do it anyway for your stream of consciousness.
I would love to read comments from the 6 people who disliked the video ...
A lot of the time it is people who just hate Roger.
A heated towel rail in the summer. Really??
Yes just for an hour after showering, it is popular in the U.K
Its electric .
... from a family full of eccentrics. (According to Noel and Liam Gallagher that is)