Exactly. if one looks back it wasn't at all an act of construction that followed a precise project. It was just an accidental discovery. The Pats were not an emerging team and weren't regarded by anyone as a SB contender. Very different trajectory for example from that of Shanahan's 49ers which have been built over the course of the last few years and were a QB away from being a legit SB contender
@@italnsdExcept that the defense and ST carried that team…Bledsoe had just become a bad QB and Brady stepped in playing solid football. But D and ST were the two best units on the team in 2001.
I miss the days where between 2005-2013 where people would argue that Brady was a simple product of Belichick's system and had little to do with the dynastys because the Defence and Special Teams were so elite.
I feel personally that as far as the whole Dynasty goes (‘01-‘19) I feel the first part when they won the first 3 (‘01-‘04) can be mostly chalked up to Bill and his team building and discipline and all the rest, not to say Brady was riding coattails, maybe for the 1st one, but he was more than what we consider a game manager nowadays, at least after the first one in ‘01. The third and final part of the dynasty (‘14-‘19) can definitely be laid at Bradys feet more than anyone and BB wasn’t just along for the ride either absolutely not he played an integral part to it all, but somewhere during the second part of the Dynasty (‘05-‘13) sometime between them losing to the Giants both times, I’d say roughly ‘09,’10, Brady overtook Bill as the most important part of this whole thing by far.
1. Brady by 2002 was the best QB in the Nfl. By 2003 god himself. By 2004 better than god. You got to watch the film. And grade it. 2. Lets not forget Parcells defensive roster Belichick inherrited. Bruschi, Law, Milloy, McGinest, Ted Johnson , etc. Since that disolved Patriots never had a good defense ever since. 3. It was a different era in early 2000s. Rest of the roster mattered more and it was legal to play defense. And stats are a function of playcaller more than QB actually. Patriots 2001-2004 had the worst OC in the NFL. Worst WR core too. Worst TE core. Average OLine and below average RB unit until Corey Dillon came along. A lot of DCs (Belichick didn't even call plays) could have had great defensive stats with 2001-2004 Patriots (and they was mad overrated to begin with). How many QBs coild have had great offenses with what the Pats had going on on offense. Conservative as hell. Not to mention how Bill almost lost single handily the SB against Carolina and Eagles by beind conservative and ounting like a madman. He single handily brought the Eagles back by being conservative. He is a Mike Vrabel. A Patrica. An Eric Mangini. He wants to run the ball and play defense. Thats cool if you got the 1972 Dolphins roster. If you don't - your holding the team back. 5. Brady was the best ever. Belichick wasn't good. A Jeff Fischer ran into a rich mans Peyton (and Peyton was incredible in his own right).And they inherrited a good defensive roster by Parcells. Then flood gates opened and free agents like Ted Washington and Rodney Harrison wanted to come. Adalius Thomas and Junior Seau too. Thats how the myth got built. Stats don't show anything. You got to watch games. Full games and know what you are looking at. 6. Belichick was a bad coach. But underrated GM. Especially in the 2000s.
Bill has and always will be a defensive genius. He has built some of the best defense in the last 20 years. The reason Brady and Bill was a match made in heaven was because Brady took care of the offensive side of the ball while Bill could focus on the defensive side. Brady basically always had a top 10 defense behind him. It is hard to win in this league consistently without a top 10 defense. So Everyone saying Brady is the only reason for Bills success is insane especially when most of the superbowls came down to the defenses making plays. They both equally needed each other for the 20 years of dominance.
They didnt need each other equally. More like 70/30. Whether you like it or not, Football is a QB's game. You can have top 3 defense, but you are still irrelevant if you have no QB. Belichick's biggest flaw was the fact that he didnt value the great players. He was foolish enough to not recognize Brady was the biggest cornerstone that sustains the structure and kept chipping it away by shipping away his weapons. Eventually he broke it and a whole team crumbled. You expect owners to look at that and hire him? Belichick is just a decorated average coach with full of ego.
Ask Brees and Peyton to trade theirs HoFs and All pros weapons and take less pay check to build average to good defense and have to chewing up the clock to rest the defense, so average defense can be a stat padder@@xmxh9596
Tom was Bills lengthened arm on the field. You need at least one top guy that backs the head Coach. Jarhead portrayed that pretty good. Or the 20 year reign of the patriots.
The first time I wondered about this was when I saw the clip of Brady and Bellichick talking about Ed Reed, and Brady basically telling Bill how to handle Reed (with Bill taking notes). All the ideas in that conversation came from Brady. Bellichick seemed like he was just there to bounce ideas off and learn. I imagine a lot of the culture and "the Patriot way" can be attributed to Bill, maybe the D too, but I think the offence was all Brady.
You mean the video where Brady gave Belichick a specific play suggestion, something you would not call something multiple times against Ed Reed? That's pretty common with a vet QB, so since it's two of the greatest talking football, it's really not surprising or crazy what was said in that video
The Brady vs. Belichick argument is such a senseless one. To say that Belichick suddenly isn't great because he loses the GOAT QB and his team isn't as good is ridiculous. It just so happens that the GOAT QB and GOAT coach paired up and made history.
For you people not there during the first superbowls...Brady dropped in 28 other teams wouldn't of sniffed even 1 superbowl hardly. He was dropped in a environment that helped make him the best. On a team that requires excellence and made the most out of its playersm
Andy Reid had 5 seasons where he was .500 or below in 25 seasons and Bill has had 8 in 29 years as head coach. Not that far off from each other. Yes, Bill has had more losing seasons, but he has coached longer and more than makes up for it with the success he had. Even Joe Gibbs who many point to as a great coach had 4 .500 or worse seasons. One of the SBs they won was during a 9-game season due to the strike. Listen, we can cherry pick anybody to diminish their achievements. Football is a complex sport. I do think Bill is the GOAT, but even GOATs need the right circumstances to be great.
Shut up man, you're making too much sense lol. But seriously, it was Brady AND Belichick. I give Belichick a lot of credit for their first and last Super Bowl win. His defenses held both of those Rams teams in check.
@codyhealing5973 facts. I love nuance, but it's also my downfall because other people have these simplistic views, but they express it with such confidence and passion that it's passed off as viable.
@@kman8749 I feel like everyone got so caught up in the Skip/Stephen A hot take era, that they have to make an outlandish statement to make headlines. When in reality, like you said they were the perfect team. Brady handled the most of the offense and Belichick made sure his defense was always near the best in the league.
i mean the difference in culture is GLARING even at this level... black dude thinks coach didnt do shit and its alllll the player and the white dude is like whoaaa ur not understanding whats going on here..
Belichick without Brady was less than 500. I made the statement three years ago that Belichick will never coach in another Super Bowl and I stand by that statement. In the super bowl against the Eagles, Brady put up over 500 yards, and Belichick could not slow down a second string QB..
Its funny how we talk about a team sport like football as if its boxing. We say Brady or Belichick won a championship, nevermind the other players on the team. They did it all by themselves. The glaze is crazy.
Rome may Not have been built "over night"...But Those 6 Lombardi's weren't there without Tom under center. Bill and That Franchise, Hit the Mega Lotto with Brady and it ain't even a question. All Tom, give a fuck what any one says, doubt it...first year with the Bucs (during covid lock up and restrictions), without a real off-season....Seventh Ring. 🎤
Every great coach owes there success to the great players that played for them. At the end of the day you need great players to win period. So I think its unfair not to give credit to Bill for his success as a head coach and GM.
Agreed. To his credit, Bill has always said "players win games, coaches lose them." You cant win without talented players, doesnt matter whos coaching them.
@trevmac8362 Definitely agree. What do you think about Burkhead? Was reading up on his retirement and threw me down memory lane. Loved watching him juke out defenders.
Before Belichick got to the Browns they were a perennial playoff team, the missed the playoffs that one year before Bill got there BUT they prior 6yrs they were in the playoffs for 5 of those seasons. Belichick got to Cleveland and they fell off a cliff.
For every coach, we would look at his record to determine if he's great or not. We do it for Rex with Mark Sanchez, we do it with Jeff Fisher. You are what your record says you are, said Belichick's mentor, Bill Parcelles. Well, that goes for belichick too and his record without Brady is abysmal. Sorry, no free pass for that. If Bill was that great he would have more than one playoff wins in eleven seasons without Brady, not saying he should be the same, but not that bad. The gap between Bill with Brady and Bill without him is way too wide.
I disagree. What determines if a coach is the GOAT is championships. It has and always will be the defining factor in GOAT debates. The fact that people forget that the first three championships were won because Bill built and elite defense that could carry the team. If the Pats stuck with Bledsoe they still would have won those first three championships. Brady has always had a top 10 defense to back him up. That is an insanely important part in winning superbowls that people tend to forget. Ask Brees how easy it is to win championships with a crap defense. Brees is one of the best to ever sling the ball but his defense constantly shit the bed.
When you begin usinf if, and would's, you know you,re lost LOL If Bill defense was so great he would have won with another QB, carrying him with his oh so great defense, but we'll live in the reality where he only has one playoffs wins with his so amazing defense in elevan season without Brady.@@xmxh9596
Lol how many great coaches are judged by their record when they had a bad QB and their record with their best QB is totally ignored? Social media has made the world a dumber place.
Bill is a defensive and special teams genius. Countless players he drafted or picked up undrafted on defense/special teams that he developed into pro bowl caliber players. Yes Brady elevated the team into dynasty status, but Brady always had a great defense and special teams to help him
Look at Super Bowl 36. If Bill wins that game with Bledsoe at the helm, it proves he can win a Super Bowl without Brady. If he can't, then Bill clesrly made the right coaching decision on who to play. "Players win football games. Cosches put them in the best position to win." - Bill Belichick
@Gubna047 Not really, because it was Brady at QB who brought them to play that SB. Sure, if you put Bledsoe just in the SB he might have won that single game (he actually played and won most of the AFC championship as Brady had to leave after a hit), but could he have brought them all the way to play that game? The year before Belichick with Bledsoe at the helm went 5-11.
Bill Belichicks Resume ⬇without Tom Brady 1991 out of playoffs 1992 out of playoffs 1993 out of playoffs 1995 out of playoffs 2000 out of playoffs 2001 (0-2) After Brady Week 3 > 14-3 2008 out o plaoyffs 2020 out of playoffs 2022 out of playoffs 2023 out of playoffs A horrendous .437 Win% in 140 games without Brady > Sample size = 8.5 seasons 1 playoff win in 10 full seasons without Brady (Wild Card) Story Ends Care for Brady's resume without Belichick ?
@@AlwaysHalloween000 Bill had to rebuild that Browns team and turned them into a playoff team. Of course theyre going to fall off a cliff when the owner announces they are relocating. And to expect there not to be a dip in performance after Brady left is ludacris to think otherwise. As for Bill inheriting Brady, a bad head coach would not win 6 super bowls and go to 9 if he didn't know how to coach his players and game plan. Name me another coach in that era (besides Andy Reid) who could do the same if not more, with Tom.
@@italnsd You can't overlook how well the Defence and Special Teams played that year (as well as the early dynasty years) and just say it was all Brady. Those defences were huge reasons why the Patriots won big games against Kurt Warner, Peyton Manning, and the like. All in all its a team sport, and a group effort, but to cut Bill from the equation is just wrong.
@@Gubna047 Wow one playoff win (Wild Card) in 5 years in Cleveland - Move over Vince Lombardi And a dip in performance before they moved ... 5-11 that's one hell of a dip As a Browns coach in those dip years 6-10 7-9 7-9 5-11 Pats year 2000 before Brady- 5-11 2001- 0-2 Week 3 of the 2001 season with Brady 14-3 So just so there's no room for misinterpretation he went from 5-13 before Brady to 14-3 after Week 3 of the 2001 season with Brady How's that for ludacris? Name you one coach who could do the same with Brady , I'll start with Wolverines coach Lloyd Carr. The Wolverines lost 32 players to Graduation and they went the next 2 years 19-4 with 2 underdog Bowl wins Jump ahead 24 years later - Bruce Ariens 7-9 before Brady/ SB Winner with Brady the next year. And that's a hypothetical question . We know Ariens can win with Brady. We know as a head coach Belichick is a disaster without Brady And the N.Y Giant bystander rings don't count . Bill Parcells was a mastermind defensive genius going all the way back to College in the 1960's - plus there's this guy called Lawrence Taylor Belichick inherited the best Defensive player and QB of all time
Shaddy should bring up to Edelman how dumb of a H.C Belichick was for benching Both Butler and Welker. Welker against the Jets when he made fun Rex Ryans foot fetish and Butler in the SB against the Eagles. Some sources said Butler had an altercation with Belichick's son. Of course daddy won't let anyone bully his useless son, that was why he was benched. He just wanted to flex his power and ended up losing both of those playoff games. After winning the SB against the Rams Belichick also spread words that he could win with any QB. And at that point Belichick forced Kraft's hands and got rid of Brady the 2nd attempt. 1st attempt was he wanted to keep Jimmy G and trade Brady. After Brady leaving, the only the Belichick was able to prove was that he is a below average H.C without Brady.
@@jakebuchsbaum3348 Because they were losing at the point. Even after Welker came back in, the chemistry was no longer there. You can see the team played crappy as a result of that decision. Rex Ryan is a better H.C than Belichick without Brady and he did take the JETS to 2 AFC conference games in that division.
@@JohnSmith-nj4zq when welker came into the game the pats were up 3-0. The jets had missed a field goal off the Tom Brady interception from David Harris. They were up. The defense couldn’t get anything going and mark Sanchez was cooking with hot grease against that secondary
@@jakebuchsbaum3348 The Patriots were one of the hottest offensive teams going into the game. Benching Butler and Welker in both cases destroyed the team's chemistry. How embarrassing was it to lose to Butt Fumble Sanchez.
edelman is an idiot and cannot defend bill to save his life. brady and belichick drove each other to the highest level. they needed each other. it was the perfect storm. mccoy is so dense
also belichick was everything in the first dynasty and the rams superbowl 13-3 was his masterpiece. anyone shitting on belichick is slow. brady and bill both goats
Shady talks so high about Andy but last time I checked he didn’t start wining super bowls cause that’s what really matters here till he got Mahomes some will say look at the eagles but let’s not for get back in the early 2000s McNabb was a top 5-10 qb in the nfl as well so let’s be careful on how this narrative goes it’s hard to win without a qb who buys into your system
I hate when people try to downplay someones play to try to prove a point. Your argument stops right there. He clearly didnt know the full story of alex smith.
Hey Jules, I think you been hit in the head too many times. He even traded Gronk. If he was that great, he would have been rehired by now. He has six super bowls because of Brady....
But all we heard all those years is that Belichick was the GOAT, that he could win with anybody, that his system only needed cogs, even the QB, we didn't hear that about any other coach
@@dffndjdjd Harbuagh had superbowl mvp Joe Flacco for a decade Shanahan isnt 500 without Purdy and he also had Garrapolo (who isnt the best but Garropplo balled out for the Pats under Bill, way better than for Kyle) Pederson had Carson Wentz and Trevor Lawrence both good quarterbacks and 10x the players compared to guys like Bernie Kosar, Vinny Testaverde, and Mac Jones.
If Shady saying Tom was the reason they won then that goes for Andy Reid too. Reid could never win a chip in Philadelphia. He goes to KC and been getting carried by Mahomes. Andy didn't even want Mahomes, it was his OC who helped ge Patrick on the team.
First and foremost we all acknowledge that tom is the foundation snd and will always be the backbone of the patriots but bill belichick is the architect of the dynasty. remember its not tom brady's job to draft players and give players a second chance when no teams wanted them. Why do you think tom brady was so methodically and systematically destroy defenses all these Years? who gave him the blueprint? always remember that it was bill belichick who drafted the nfl player of all time
Ask that FRAUD to give his others qb his Blueprint, architect shit bruh, He got exposed and his legacy in tatters. He cant keep his job and nobody want to hire his Fraud 25M/year ass
I think Pioli actually was behind drafting Brady. He was the GM. I know he didn't do it without BB, BUT according to Pioli he saw Tom still undrafted and was like what are we doing, let's draft him. Just saying. Pioli was behind that, according to him in the Dynasty doc on Apple
I remember when McCoy hated Brady. Ever since Brady got McCoy a "Backup" roll on the bucs to get him a ring he's GOD now 😂. All im saying is you're not considered a goat or the best if they aint hating on ya. Brady needed Bill just as much Bill needed Beady. Majority of the Superbowl wins came from Bills defense.
Once Brady alot of the good players left and the Pats were never the same.Brady made bellichek look like a genius coach but it's clear to see that coach bellichek wasnt
@@ferminchapa9856 he ended up back in NE 3 times after he left and his tackle/interception/sack numbers were never as good anywhere else as there were in NE…
Such a silly take. Can use the same argument with one of LeSean's favorite coaches Andy Reid. No doubt Andy is one of the best football coaches who has ever lived but how many super bowls did he win without Patrick Mahomes?
This is such a dumb argument. Andy Reid has been to 5 NFCCG, 4 in a row and 1 SB without Mahomes. He was a perennial division winner with the Chiefs BEFORE Mahomes. Both times with the Eagles and Chiefs he lost to Tom Brady whether he had McNabb, Mahomes, or Alex Smith. Belichick has been to ONE divisional round play game without Brady, and that was with the Browns decades ago. He has only made ONE other playoff game and was DESTROYED by the Bills giving up 50 pts. If your measure of failure is not winning the super bowl every year, then literally every coach is trash. How about trying a little nuance.
@@knowyourenemy50going 1-4 in nfc championships and 0-1 in super bowls before mahomes is not impressive it’s failure and andy reid has had mcabb, vick, and smith all first round qbs, andy reid wouldn’t be who he his without mahomes he would still be looked as as a loser and a guy who can’t win the big dance
Here is a "Stat" That is Absolutely BANANAS!! and Really Shows Toms GREATNESS....With The Bucs Tom Brady Was "64-0!!" in The Redzone...64 TDs & O INTs...Please Just Let This Marinate For a Moment Folks
If bledsoe didnt get injured, BB was probably getting sacked. Most overrated coach of all time, Amendola says it himself “we worked for Bill, we played for Tom”
Yeah I think Bill would’ve been gone after the 2002 season. Herm Edwards said Bill was insinuating to him before the Mo Lewis hit game that things weren’t going well for him. Skip Baylis had friends on the staff and said to him they were putting their homes up for sale because their jobs were on the line.
When Belichick was at the Browns, they stunk it up. He was an average coach at BEST. I wouldn't have wanted him as a high school coach. Bring on Tom Brady...... HE was the biggest reason they won.
It isn’t that bill wasn’t a great coach. It is just a great player is more value then a coaches. Great player can make a bad play work. A great coach can’t win for a long time without a great QB .
This is just recency bias. Bill set the foundation and Tom was a load bearing wall. Bill's coaching still made a great defenses even at the end, but it had to end like all things.
@@stephanea5364 W-L ratio does not equal team culture, especially when the coach is new and players need time to buy in. A better example is the Matt Cassell year, when the team went 11-5. That was 7 years into his coaching and his system was established.
@@Machva You and every other causal has a major problem with that lame Cassel Spin. The Patriots in 2008 had the lottery luck fortune of having the easiest strength by schedule in the NFL in 2008. Now for the numbers > With Brady they went 18-1 and Brady was MVP and The Pats scored 600 points. With Cassel they missed the playoffs and scored 400 points. With Brady they scored almost 2 TD's more a game. Brady threw 50 in 2007 /Cassel 23 in 2008 The loss of value without Brady was 44% (Statistical Forensics) If Belichick was a stock on the Dow Jones market people who owned that stock lost 44% of value Stock Holders would be jumping out of windows if they owned Belichick stock
Every great coach needs that leader at QB. How do you think Andy Reid would be doing without Mahomes? Reid was winning but couldn't get any Lombardi trophies until Mahomes came along. Reid had good QB's like Vick, McNabb, even Smith which are all better then what BB had after Brady but even with those QB's still couldn't win Super Bowls. Crazy how everyone tries to throw BB under the bus and discredit all he has accomplished.
Nice try pal . I'm a Bay area resident and i had the absolute misfortune of seeing Alex Smith play. Why do you think the Niners got rid of him. You spinning it like he was a good QB is pure bunk. Reid went 12-4 / 11-5 and 10-6 with Smith which was a miracle And Belichick did have 3 -1st round/1st pick QB's overall (Kosar,Testverdi and Bledsoe) and all 3 were Pro Bowlers and he was a disaster with all three.. Here I'll throw him under the bus. ill Belichicks Resume ⬇without Tom Brady 1991 out of playoffs 1992 out of playoffs 1993 out of playoffs 1995 out of playoffs 2000 out of playoffs 2001 (0-2) After Brady Week 3 > 14-3 2008 out of playoffs 2020 out of playoffs 2022 out of playoffs 2023 out of playoffs A horrendous .437 Win% in 140 games without Brady > Sample size = 8.5 seasons 1 playoff win in 10 full seasons without Brady (Wild Card) You put me in a Court of Law against one of Belichicks Lawyers and i would eviscerate him
@trevmac8362 Except for Bledsoe they all played for Bill for two years and were done. I think Mahomes and Reid took more time to get the gears running before they actually started winning Super Bowls. And just cause you make the Pro Bowl doesn't mean you're great. Sorry to say but Mac Jones is a Pro Bowler and look at him now. Again great QB's. Your right about Alex Smith tho.
@@dannye.3650 You backed yourself into a corner on that one because apparently Bill Belichick didn't agree with you on Bledsoe's value. After the Pats went 5-11 with Bledsoe coach Belichick still gave Drew the largest contract $$$ in NFL history- 10 years for $100 million. So this is where you stand > Either Belichicks judgment stinks for giving Bledsoe that contract or Bledsoe was just average . (He got the Pats to a SB with Parcells) And let me add Tom Brady led the NFL in TD;s in 2002 and Bledsoe was still a Pro Bowler over him in Buffalo the next season. Let me also add Mac Jones was a Top 2 QB prospect coming out of college So this is where you stand > Belichick was a disaster with 3 - 1st round ,1st pick QB's overall and all 3 were Pro Bowlers.. Testaverde played until he was 42 ,Kosar got the Browns to the playoffs 5 straight years and won 3 playoff games and was sensational in 2 of them And a Pro Bowler is a Pro Bowler - only 3 are picked in each conference and Bledsoe got to 4 of them So try and tell me why Belichump gave Bledsoe that $100 million contract despite going 5-11 if Belichick didn't deem him good?? Go ahead I'll wait And let me leave you once again with Belichicks record in 140 games without Brady = *.437 Win%* And while you are processing all that information care to tell me how the great Belichimp only got one interview this year? I'll tell you why > It's because everyone has it figured out now that Belichick was a Chump without Brady. Hell even Shannon Sharpe admitted it. And Shannon hated Brady Do you know more than a Hall of Fame TE (that would be my next question?)
@trevmac8362 I love Bledsoe so I honestly didn't like how things ended for him in New England. It was again a decision made for the GOAT so it had to be done at the end of the day. A gamble BB rolled the dice on. And again making it to the probowl is cool but still doesn't hold the same value as Lombardi trophies. I never really like BB as a general manager. And no, I absolutely wouldn't know more about football than Sharpe but there are also Hall of Famers that'll go down saying BB is a GOAT. Just because you are picked in the first round doesn't mean your great either. There are plenty of first rounders who killed it in college becomes total busts. BB has always been known for the defense and Brady was the piece to lead the offense. I'm pretty sure Brady wasn't catching the ball or playing defense and he certainly wasn't a runner but together they made it work. Tampa Bay was stacked when Brady got there so you're not going to act like that didn't play a part in his success out of Foxboro.
@@dannye.3650 Nice try Chump. It was no gamble it was the only choice to make (From 5-13 to 14-3) with Brady. You can try and undermine it but it';s useless. Bucs weren't stacked. They hadn't made the playoffs in 12 years and Brady threw for an astronomical 14.600 yards and 110 TD's in 3 years (Best in the NFL) Nice try.. The Bucs are the only team in NFL to score 30+ points in 5 consecutive playoff games. They scored 1000 points in Brady's first 2 seasons there and dopes like yourself are making a feeble attempt to undermine Brady's in credible accomplishment there. Here's food for thought - Drew Brees is 2nd all time for passing TD's after the age of 40 with 53 Brady has thrown for 199 after the age of 40 I'll help you understand that. That's like Brady winning a 26.2 mile marathon and Brees is still running at mile 6 and the rest haven't got to the starting line.
Bro saying Bill didn’t win anything after Tom left is such a dumb argument. It’s impossible to keep winning for that long. When Brady left most of the long time leadership on the team had already left or was a season or two away from leaving. Teams in the nfl take a decade to find a good qb that wins for them. It’s not exactly something you do overnight. How about we go off what his former players say about him? Without Bill, Brady might be an insurance salesman rn
Peyton would have to play with subpar weapons most of the time and he's a choker, not a good combination. Peyton always had the privilege to play with stacked offenses and it wouldn't have been the case with Bill. And who knows if Peyton would have been able to accept Bill's ruthles coaching.
I am pretty sure Brady didn't need Belichick. He won without him with Bruce Arians. Belichick had not proven he could win without Brady yet. He tried the last 4 seasons but failed. That's why he is fired and still haven't found a team that wants to hire him yet.
Peyton manning would’ve had to play with mediocre weapons most of the time cuz bill was a defensive minded coach so it wouldn’t have worked plus manning was a habitual playoff choker
@@kevonsidek9737 That's kind of my point: great coaching from folks like BB is a talent multiplier. Peyton played with some HOF'ers (like Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison) but still only came out with 1 SB in his entire Colts era...(eventually ending up with his second after the Broncos went all-in for short-term wins.) TB12 is my all-time favorite quarterback, but I don't think his talent was 5x the talent of Peyton Manning. But TB12 + BB, sometimes it DID feel that way.
@@Tony_YT Belichick is not a talent multiplier. He is a talent divider. He is a horrible talent evaluator. He is one of the worse GM in the league. That's one of the reason why he is unemployed. Brady was the force multiplier that took Belichick's trash picks and turned them into household names.
its a LONG fall from the top when it happens. HOWEVER, dont forget! the majority of the SB wins Brady has he needed a DEFENSE to make these things happen. its not like he was out there blowing teams out. there was a mastermind holding the other team back just enough to give Brady his chances to win the games. but there are a TON of examples where brady let the game get away and the mastermind was able to keep the game managable!
Hey fool how's this for that mastermind Belichick Bill Belichicks Resume ⬇without Tom Brady 1991 out of playoffs 1992 out of playoffs 1993 out of playoffs 1995 out of playoffs 2000 out of playoffs 2001 (0-2) After Brady Week 3 > 14-3 2008 out of playoffs 2020 out of playoffs 2022 out of playoffs 2023 out of playoffs A horrendous *.437 Win%* in 140 games without Brady > Sample size = 8.5 seasons 1 playoff win in 10 full seasons without Brady (Wild Card)
Patriots Chief Scout Larry Cook who covered the Big 10 for the Pats picked Brady. Belichick wasn't even hired until 4 months after the 1999 college season ended. Belichick might have been the GM but it was Cook who watched Brady play.
Bill Belichicks Resume ⬇without Tom Brady 1991 out of playoffs 1992 out of playoffs 1993 out of playoffs 1995 out of playoffs 2000 out of playoffs 2001 (0-2) After Brady Week 3 > 14-3 2008 out of playoffs 2020 out of playoffs 2022 out of playoffs 2023 out of playoffs A horrendous .437 Win% in 140 games without Brady > Sample size = 8.5 seasons 1 playoff win in 10 full seasons without Brady (Wild Card) And apparently every team in the NFL figured this out also because last time i heard Bill is going to be a hot dog vendor at Foxborough Stadium this season
TB was amazing, but the early years of the Dynasty were led by defense...TB had great moments, but it was D first. Tough to judge BB fairly post-TB...all teams struggle until they find their franchise QB.
@@stephanea5364 seriously? D was hardly the problem with the Pats last yr...despite missing their D captain and first round pick most of the yr. Pats D was ranked #4, #8, and #7 in yards/game over the last 3 seasons. The problem was offense...and specifically QB & WR. Imagine that
So what I said is true, team got nowhere even with great defense. When you're used to give spara parts to your QB, you think it will be the same with another one, but no. And now Bill has to overpay instead of underpay@@beachbummer3434
bill went to the playoffs with rookie mac jones... all he had to do was fix the offensive line and they could have been back in again and again. and his coach reid comment is a miss. he had alex smith for what 5 seasons. alex was never gonna get over that hump. reid can only win with HOF qb's..... reid was just over an average head coach...... mahomes is the one saving reid.
I'll help you out with that pal Bill Belichicks Head Coaching Resume ⬇without Tom Brady 1991 out of playoffs 1992 out of playoffs 1993 out of playoffs 1995 out of playoffs 2000 out of playoffs 2001 (0-2) After Brady Week 3 > 14-3 2008 out of playoffs 2020 out of playoffs 2022 out of playoffs 2023 out of playoffs A horrendous .437 Win% in 140 games without Brady > Sample size = 8.5 seasons 1 playoff win in 10 full seasons without Brady (Wild Card)
@@plainwhitepaper3898 No Champ Bill Parcells who was a defensive genius going all the way back to the 1960's in college was the head coach of the Giants - Helped by the greatest player in Defensive history (Lawrence Taylor) that lame spin where assistant count is as weak as it gets. Case is closed on your head
Yes. And I love everything about the Spurs. But unlike Bill, Pop will be the first one to say “no Tim, no championships” gives all the credit to him being able to take the criticism at practice and set the tone that everyone is accountable whether you are an all star or not.
@@Onarca 2 rings of riding bill parcells coattails and the greatest defensive player of all time 🤣😂 and giving a noble prize for having 1 successful seasons with the browns outta 5 or 4 🤣🤣 that's pathetic
Edelnut trying so hard to defend bill(because he wants to everually have him as a guest), almost like he’s trying to convince himself that hes NOT trash w/o brady lol
@@ayoolou9392 yes and his opinion makes him a punk. Listen to the whole interview. Just tries to explain why he his better. Sounds like an insecure high school kid
Rome isn’t built overnight, except the night Drew Bledsoe injured
Lol spot on
Exactly. if one looks back it wasn't at all an act of construction that followed a precise project. It was just an accidental discovery. The Pats were not an emerging team and weren't regarded by anyone as a SB contender. Very different trajectory for example from that of Shanahan's 49ers which have been built over the course of the last few years and were a QB away from being a legit SB contender
@@italnsdExcept that the defense and ST carried that team…Bledsoe had just become a bad QB and Brady stepped in playing solid football. But D and ST were the two best units on the team in 2001.
🎯💯💯
I miss the days where between 2005-2013 where people would argue that Brady was a simple product of Belichick's system and had little to do with the dynastys because the Defence and Special Teams were so elite.
I think bill felt confident with Brady there . Players gave it all to not disappoint Tom
Shady is partially right, without Brady, bill is not even looked at as a hall of fame coach let alone the greatest
He was with him 20 years
Shady is completely right
I feel personally that as far as the whole Dynasty goes (‘01-‘19) I feel the first part when they won the first 3 (‘01-‘04) can be mostly chalked up to Bill and his team building and discipline and all the rest, not to say Brady was riding coattails, maybe for the 1st one, but he was more than what we consider a game manager nowadays, at least after the first one in ‘01. The third and final part of the dynasty (‘14-‘19) can definitely be laid at Bradys feet more than anyone and BB wasn’t just along for the ride either absolutely not he played an integral part to it all, but somewhere during the second part of the Dynasty (‘05-‘13) sometime between them losing to the Giants both times, I’d say roughly ‘09,’10, Brady overtook Bill as the most important part of this whole thing by far.
1. Brady by 2002 was the best QB in the Nfl. By 2003 god himself. By 2004 better than god. You got to watch the film. And grade it.
2. Lets not forget Parcells defensive roster Belichick inherrited. Bruschi, Law, Milloy, McGinest, Ted Johnson , etc. Since that disolved Patriots never had a good defense ever since.
3. It was a different era in early 2000s. Rest of the roster mattered more and it was legal to play defense. And stats are a function of playcaller more than QB actually. Patriots 2001-2004 had the worst OC in the NFL. Worst WR core too. Worst TE core. Average OLine and below average RB unit until Corey Dillon came along. A lot of DCs (Belichick didn't even call plays) could have had great defensive stats with 2001-2004 Patriots (and they was mad overrated to begin with). How many QBs coild have had great offenses with what the Pats had going on on offense. Conservative as hell. Not to mention how Bill almost lost single handily the SB against Carolina and Eagles by beind conservative and ounting like a madman. He single handily brought the Eagles back by being conservative. He is a Mike Vrabel. A Patrica. An Eric Mangini. He wants to run the ball and play defense. Thats cool if you got the 1972 Dolphins roster. If you don't - your holding the team back.
5. Brady was the best ever. Belichick wasn't good. A Jeff Fischer ran into a rich mans Peyton (and Peyton was incredible in his own right).And they inherrited a good defensive roster by Parcells. Then flood gates opened and free agents like Ted Washington and Rodney Harrison wanted to come. Adalius Thomas and Junior Seau too. Thats how the myth got built. Stats don't show anything. You got to watch games. Full games and know what you are looking at.
6. Belichick was a bad coach. But underrated GM. Especially in the 2000s.
shadey came on the podcast lowkey throwing shade on the patriots days 😂😂
Bill has and always will be a defensive genius. He has built some of the best defense in the last 20 years. The reason Brady and Bill was a match made in heaven was because Brady took care of the offensive side of the ball while Bill could focus on the defensive side. Brady basically always had a top 10 defense behind him. It is hard to win in this league consistently without a top 10 defense. So Everyone saying Brady is the only reason for Bills success is insane especially when most of the superbowls came down to the defenses making plays. They both equally needed each other for the 20 years of dominance.
Wow someone normal.
They didnt need each other equally. More like 70/30. Whether you like it or not, Football is a QB's game. You can have top 3 defense, but you are still irrelevant if you have no QB. Belichick's biggest flaw was the fact that he didnt value the great players. He was foolish enough to not recognize Brady was the biggest cornerstone that sustains the structure and kept chipping it away by shipping away his weapons. Eventually he broke it and a whole team crumbled. You expect owners to look at that and hire him? Belichick is just a decorated average coach with full of ego.
@@wt606 ask Brees and Peyton how easy it is to win without a top 10 defense. Those guys should have had a bunch of championships yet they do not.
@@xmxh9596 That makes no sense. Why dont you ask Belichick how it was to have top10 def without Brady which is actually a relevant question.
Ask Brees and Peyton to trade theirs HoFs and All pros weapons and take less pay check to build average to good defense and have to chewing up the clock to rest the defense, so average defense can be a stat padder@@xmxh9596
Tom was Bills lengthened arm on the field. You need at least one top guy that backs the head Coach.
Jarhead portrayed that pretty good. Or the 20 year reign of the patriots.
The first time I wondered about this was when I saw the clip of Brady and Bellichick talking about Ed Reed, and Brady basically telling Bill how to handle Reed (with Bill taking notes). All the ideas in that conversation came from Brady. Bellichick seemed like he was just there to bounce ideas off and learn. I imagine a lot of the culture and "the Patriot way" can be attributed to Bill, maybe the D too, but I think the offence was all Brady.
You mean the video where Brady gave Belichick a specific play suggestion, something you would not call something multiple times against Ed Reed? That's pretty common with a vet QB, so since it's two of the greatest talking football, it's really not surprising or crazy what was said in that video
If it wasn't for Bill, Brady would have been forgotten a long time ago
The Brady vs. Belichick argument is such a senseless one. To say that Belichick suddenly isn't great because he loses the GOAT QB and his team isn't as good is ridiculous. It just so happens that the GOAT QB and GOAT coach paired up and made history.
For you people not there during the first superbowls...Brady dropped in 28 other teams wouldn't of sniffed even 1 superbowl hardly. He was dropped in a environment that helped make him the best. On a team that requires excellence and made the most out of its playersm
Yea, the patriots were a juggernaut. That couldn't get to the playoffs and couldn't manage a winning record under belichick until Brady started.
Remember when Matt cassel went 11-5 with the pats and ignited the “system quarterback” debate?
No they don't remember cause the ones talking the most shit are the ones who where born in 2000 something.
Don’t let this distract you from the fact that Shady won two rings being a bench warmer
Thats correct, same can be said about Belichick way not worked anywhere else without Brady
So? He was also one of the best RBs of the 2010s and a sure fire hall of famer. He deserved those rings
@@itsaccer7443sure hall of fame? Gtfoh. He was never a top 3 rb in his career. He was a knock off Darren sproles
He must’ve gashed your team in the past
@@itsaccer7443 Yeah.. Don’t be foolish bro.. He ain’t anywhere close to a first ballot HOF..
Andy Reid had 5 seasons where he was .500 or below in 25 seasons and Bill has had 8 in 29 years as head coach. Not that far off from each other. Yes, Bill has had more losing seasons, but he has coached longer and more than makes up for it with the success he had. Even Joe Gibbs who many point to as a great coach had 4 .500 or worse seasons. One of the SBs they won was during a 9-game season due to the strike. Listen, we can cherry pick anybody to diminish their achievements. Football is a complex sport. I do think Bill is the GOAT, but even GOATs need the right circumstances to be great.
Shut up man, you're making too much sense lol. But seriously, it was Brady AND Belichick. I give Belichick a lot of credit for their first and last Super Bowl win. His defenses held both of those Rams teams in check.
@braddillon4311 lol 💯 agree. They were literally the perfect match up to compliment each other.
Perfectly said, unfortunately nuance isn’t allowed on the internet
@codyhealing5973 facts. I love nuance, but it's also my downfall because other people have these simplistic views, but they express it with such confidence and passion that it's passed off as viable.
@@kman8749 I feel like everyone got so caught up in the Skip/Stephen A hot take era, that they have to make an outlandish statement to make headlines. When in reality, like you said they were the perfect team. Brady handled the most of the offense and Belichick made sure his defense was always near the best in the league.
i mean the difference in culture is GLARING even at this level... black dude thinks coach didnt do shit and its alllll the player and the white dude is like whoaaa ur not understanding whats going on here..
He’s spot on about Jamie Collins
Belichick without Brady was less than 500. I made the statement three years ago that Belichick will never coach in another Super Bowl and I stand by that statement. In the super bowl against the Eagles, Brady put up over 500 yards, and Belichick could not slow down a second string QB..
Brady wins 3 sbs without BB
Bill wins none without Tom.@@Devlins10
How much did he put up in both Rams SBs? Who drafted him. Who chose him over Bledsoe when the whole world said he was insane.
I didn't say he was a complete idiot. I said he was a less than .500 coach..@@MassAppeal966
Its funny how we talk about a team sport like football as if its boxing. We say Brady or Belichick won a championship, nevermind the other players on the team. They did it all by themselves. The glaze is crazy.
I also loved Jamie Collins I hope he’s doing well today
Rome may Not have been built "over night"...But Those 6 Lombardi's weren't there without Tom under center. Bill and That Franchise, Hit the Mega Lotto with Brady and it ain't even a question.
All Tom, give a fuck what any one says, doubt it...first year with the Bucs (during covid lock up and restrictions), without a real off-season....Seventh Ring. 🎤
Every great coach owes there success to the great players that played for them. At the end of the day you need great players to win period. So I think its unfair not to give credit to Bill for his success as a head coach and GM.
His succes is winning a lotto called tom brady. Because he lost a lot of his investments bust
Only Joe Gibbs won multiple Super Bowls without a HOF QB lol!
Agreed. To his credit, Bill has always said "players win games, coaches lose them." You cant win without talented players, doesnt matter whos coaching them.
The whole, but Cleveland and Mac Jones, is a huge whataboutism.
Shady is delusional but hilarious so it’s ok
Is Edelnut wearing a Buffalo Bills tshirt?
Not knowing the opponents plays ahead of time might have something to do with it too.
When did he stop?
100% Owes it all the TB Shady is exactly right on every issue here.
@trevmac8362 Definitely agree. What do you think about Burkhead? Was reading up on his retirement and threw me down memory lane. Loved watching him juke out defenders.
It certainly seems that way considering the Patriots completely collapsed after Tom left and Bill is out of a job.
Shady spitting absolute FACTS!!!!!!!!!
Before Belichick got to the Browns they were a perennial playoff team, the missed the playoffs that one year before Bill got there BUT they prior 6yrs they were in the playoffs for 5 of those seasons. Belichick got to Cleveland and they fell off a cliff.
For every coach, we would look at his record to determine if he's great or not. We do it for Rex with Mark Sanchez, we do it with Jeff Fisher. You are what your record says you are, said Belichick's mentor, Bill Parcelles. Well, that goes for belichick too and his record without Brady is abysmal. Sorry, no free pass for that. If Bill was that great he would have more than one playoff wins in eleven seasons without Brady, not saying he should be the same, but not that bad. The gap between Bill with Brady and Bill without him is way too wide.
I disagree. What determines if a coach is the GOAT is championships. It has and always will be the defining factor in GOAT debates. The fact that people forget that the first three championships were won because Bill built and elite defense that could carry the team. If the Pats stuck with Bledsoe they still would have won those first three championships.
Brady has always had a top 10 defense to back him up. That is an insanely important part in winning superbowls that people tend to forget. Ask Brees how easy it is to win championships with a crap defense. Brees is one of the best to ever sling the ball but his defense constantly shit the bed.
When you begin usinf if, and would's, you know you,re lost LOL If Bill defense was so great he would have won with another QB, carrying him with his oh so great defense, but we'll live in the reality where he only has one playoffs wins with his so amazing defense in elevan season without Brady.@@xmxh9596
Lol how many great coaches are judged by their record when they had a bad QB and their record with their best QB is totally ignored? Social media has made the world a dumber place.
Bledsoe was not playing well!
Bill is a defensive and special teams genius. Countless players he drafted or picked up undrafted on defense/special teams that he developed into pro bowl caliber players. Yes Brady elevated the team into dynasty status, but Brady always had a great defense and special teams to help him
Look at Super Bowl 36. If Bill wins that game with Bledsoe at the helm, it proves he can win a Super Bowl without Brady. If he can't, then Bill clesrly made the right coaching decision on who to play. "Players win football games. Cosches put them in the best position to win." - Bill Belichick
@Gubna047 Not really, because it was Brady at QB who brought them to play that SB. Sure, if you put Bledsoe just in the SB he might have won that single game (he actually played and won most of the AFC championship as Brady had to leave after a hit), but could he have brought them all the way to play that game? The year before Belichick with Bledsoe at the helm went 5-11.
Bill Belichicks Resume ⬇without Tom Brady
1991 out of playoffs
1992 out of playoffs
1993 out of playoffs
1995 out of playoffs
2000 out of playoffs
2001 (0-2) After Brady Week 3 > 14-3
2008 out o plaoyffs
2020 out of playoffs
2022 out of playoffs
2023 out of playoffs
A horrendous .437 Win% in 140 games without Brady > Sample size = 8.5 seasons
1 playoff win in 10 full seasons without Brady (Wild Card)
Story Ends
Care for Brady's resume without Belichick ?
@@AlwaysHalloween000 Bill had to rebuild that Browns team and turned them into a playoff team. Of course theyre going to fall off a cliff when the owner announces they are relocating. And to expect there not to be a dip in performance after Brady left is ludacris to think otherwise.
As for Bill inheriting Brady, a bad head coach would not win 6 super bowls and go to 9 if he didn't know how to coach his players and game plan. Name me another coach in that era (besides Andy Reid) who could do the same if not more, with Tom.
@@italnsd You can't overlook how well the Defence and Special Teams played that year (as well as the early dynasty years) and just say it was all Brady. Those defences were huge reasons why the Patriots won big games against Kurt Warner, Peyton Manning, and the like. All in all its a team sport, and a group effort, but to cut Bill from the equation is just wrong.
@@Gubna047 Wow one playoff win (Wild Card) in 5 years in Cleveland - Move over Vince Lombardi
And a dip in performance before they moved ... 5-11 that's one hell of a dip
As a Browns coach in those dip years
6-10
7-9
7-9
5-11
Pats year 2000 before Brady- 5-11
2001- 0-2
Week 3 of the 2001 season with Brady 14-3
So just so there's no room for misinterpretation he went from 5-13 before Brady to 14-3 after Week 3 of the 2001 season with Brady
How's that for ludacris?
Name you one coach who could do the same with Brady , I'll start with Wolverines coach Lloyd Carr. The Wolverines lost 32 players to Graduation and they went the next 2 years 19-4 with 2 underdog Bowl wins
Jump ahead 24 years later - Bruce Ariens 7-9 before Brady/ SB Winner with Brady the next year.
And that's a hypothetical question . We know Ariens can win with Brady. We know as a head coach Belichick is a disaster without Brady
And the N.Y Giant bystander rings don't count . Bill Parcells was a mastermind defensive genius going all the way back to College in the 1960's - plus there's this guy called Lawrence Taylor
Belichick inherited the best Defensive player and QB of all time
Shaddy should bring up to Edelman how dumb of a H.C Belichick was for benching Both Butler and Welker. Welker against the Jets when he made fun Rex Ryans foot fetish and Butler in the SB against the Eagles. Some sources said Butler had an altercation with Belichick's son. Of course daddy won't let anyone bully his useless son, that was why he was benched. He just wanted to flex his power and ended up losing both of those playoff games. After winning the SB against the Rams Belichick also spread words that he could win with any QB. And at that point Belichick forced Kraft's hands and got rid of Brady the 2nd attempt. 1st attempt was he wanted to keep Jimmy G and trade Brady. After Brady leaving, the only the Belichick was able to prove was that he is a below average H.C without Brady.
Even when welker got benched, it was only for the first series
@@jakebuchsbaum3348 Because they were losing at the point. Even after Welker came back in, the chemistry was no longer there. You can see the team played crappy as a result of that decision. Rex Ryan is a better H.C than Belichick without Brady and he did take the JETS to 2 AFC conference games in that division.
@@JohnSmith-nj4zq when welker came into the game the pats were up 3-0. The jets had missed a field goal off the Tom Brady interception from David Harris. They were up. The defense couldn’t get anything going and mark Sanchez was cooking with hot grease against that secondary
@@jakebuchsbaum3348 The Patriots were one of the hottest offensive teams going into the game. Benching Butler and Welker in both cases destroyed the team's chemistry. How embarrassing was it to lose to Butt Fumble Sanchez.
@@JohnSmith-nj4zq it was more embarrassing for belichick to bench butler than welker IMO
If Shady never disrespected Gillis, I would be on his side as a pats fan.
You two debating is great btw.
edelman is an idiot and cannot defend bill to save his life. brady and belichick drove each other to the highest level. they needed each other. it was the perfect storm. mccoy is so dense
also belichick was everything in the first dynasty and the rams superbowl 13-3 was his masterpiece. anyone shitting on belichick is slow. brady and bill both goats
Shady talks so high about Andy but last time I checked he didn’t start wining super bowls cause that’s what really matters here till he got Mahomes some will say look at the eagles but let’s not for get back in the early 2000s McNabb was a top 5-10 qb in the nfl as well so let’s be careful on how this narrative goes it’s hard to win without a qb who buys into your system
I hate when people try to downplay someones play to try to prove a point. Your argument stops right there. He clearly didnt know the full story of alex smith.
Hey Jules, I think you been hit in the head too many times. He even traded Gronk. If he was that great, he would have been rehired by now. He has six super bowls because of Brady....
Name 1 head coach without a good quarterback thats .500
@@dffndjdjd Obrien isnt .500 without deshaun watson
But all we heard all those years is that Belichick was the GOAT, that he could win with anybody, that his system only needed cogs, even the QB, we didn't hear that about any other coach
Joe Gibbs had zero HoF QBs and three super bowl rings. Different QB in each super bowl actually.
@@keithpham7592 Joe Thiesman and Doug Williams are both good quarterbacks
@@dffndjdjd Harbuagh had superbowl mvp Joe Flacco for a decade
Shanahan isnt 500 without Purdy and he also had Garrapolo (who isnt the best but Garropplo balled out for the Pats under Bill, way better than for Kyle)
Pederson had Carson Wentz and Trevor Lawrence both good quarterbacks and 10x the players compared to guys like Bernie Kosar, Vinny Testaverde, and Mac Jones.
3:43 naaah shady was ready for Violence this day lol
Surely Bill Belichick is still supposed to maintain a high record with Brady leaving, bro went from Brady to Cam to Mac I mean cmon lmfao
Bill wanted all of that, he pushed Brady out, signed Cam and drafted Mac, and I always heard he could develop QB's so...
he got them guys himself
Definitely agree with the pushed Brady out part, but he's not a qb whisperer he's known as a defensive mastermind lol@@stephanea5364
@@TheGreatGuy_ Mac literally fell to him unless he traded up for Fields like the Bears did, forgot who was available in FA instead of Cam
@@stephanea5364 Definitely agree with the pushed Brady part out, but he's not a QB whisper lol he's known as a defensive mastermind
If Shady saying Tom was the reason they won then that goes for Andy Reid too. Reid could never win a chip in Philadelphia. He goes to KC and been getting carried by Mahomes. Andy didn't even want Mahomes, it was his OC who helped ge Patrick on the team.
Really? Brady BUILT a ROME the next year in Tampa.
With out Brady Belichick is 83 and 101
He won 2 Super Bowls as a DC. On defensive teams. QBs were Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler haha
Parcells teams, and Parcells brought Belichick in. In fact,. Belichick followed him everywhere like a lap dog@@nicholasjasa
@@stephanea5364 Haha more like the other way around. Look at Parcells success without him. Watch The Two Bills 30 for 30.
@@nicholasjasa That's exactly what Belichick is, only a good DC but a bad H.C and GM.
@@nicholasjasa yeah what does that have to do with his head coaching?
Shady is correct
not correct what so ever lmfao. So Andy Reid aint shit without Mahomes?
First and foremost we all acknowledge that tom is the foundation snd and will always be the backbone of the patriots but bill belichick is the architect of the dynasty. remember its not tom brady's job to draft players and give players a second chance when no teams wanted them. Why do you think tom brady was so methodically and systematically destroy defenses all these Years? who gave him the blueprint? always remember that it was bill belichick who drafted the nfl player of all time
Ask that FRAUD to give his others qb his Blueprint, architect shit bruh, He got exposed and his legacy in tatters. He cant keep his job and nobody want to hire his Fraud 25M/year ass
If you don't get it at this point, you never will.
They did indeed split with Bills and jets but got swept by the Dolphins
BB drafted TB. Chose to go with him over an All Pro QB they'd signed to a 10-year deal.
I think Pioli actually was behind drafting Brady. He was the GM. I know he didn't do it without BB, BUT according to Pioli he saw Tom still undrafted and was like what are we doing, let's draft him. Just saying. Pioli was behind that, according to him in the Dynasty doc on Apple
I remember when McCoy hated Brady. Ever since Brady got McCoy a "Backup" roll on the bucs to get him a ring he's GOD now 😂. All im saying is you're not considered a goat or the best if they aint hating on ya. Brady needed Bill just as much Bill needed Beady. Majority of the Superbowl wins came from Bills defense.
Bill doesn't care any longer. Bill was great
Once Brady alot of the good players left and the Pats were never the same.Brady made bellichek look like a genius coach but it's clear to see that coach bellichek wasnt
Imagine if these two started a sports debate pod
@@pauljerry77 Hm. He’s on TV daily on the network that Julian’s trying to get his foot in
The only reason Edelnut is so defensive and loyal to that below .500 H.C is Belichick got rid of Welker and gave him a chance to shine.
Edelman was a LOT clutcher than Welker.
Sounds like you about to cry lmaoo
If Bill Bums not a fraud GM, he would have draft good Weapons for Brady, and edelnut only a career punt returner
Edelman admitted on his show had Weller stayed and Hernandez not done what he did, Edelman would’ve left in 2013.
Shady is right, you can cut good players when you have TB12 to save you. I’m still pissed the pats traded Jaime Collins. Still mad !
How’d Jamie Collins look away from Belichick?
How Belichick and his rotten coaching trees look away from Brady?@@flyyyj
@@flyyyj he actually did really well.
@@ferminchapa9856 he ended up back in NE 3 times after he left and his tackle/interception/sack numbers were never as good anywhere else as there were in NE…
Neither Bill nor Tom would have had the success they had without each other.
Such a silly take. Can use the same argument with one of LeSean's favorite coaches Andy Reid. No doubt Andy is one of the best football coaches who has ever lived but how many super bowls did he win without Patrick Mahomes?
Exactly. Anyone who can’t see this is a fool!
Ok but the gap betwenn him with and without Mahomes isn't as wide as Bill with and without Brady
This is such a dumb argument. Andy Reid has been to 5 NFCCG, 4 in a row and 1 SB without Mahomes. He was a perennial division winner with the Chiefs BEFORE Mahomes. Both times with the Eagles and Chiefs he lost to Tom Brady whether he had McNabb, Mahomes, or Alex Smith. Belichick has been to ONE divisional round play game without Brady, and that was with the Browns decades ago. He has only made ONE other playoff game and was DESTROYED by the Bills giving up 50 pts. If your measure of failure is not winning the super bowl every year, then literally every coach is trash. How about trying a little nuance.
@@knowyourenemy50going 1-4 in nfc championships and 0-1 in super bowls before mahomes is not impressive it’s failure and andy reid has had mcabb, vick, and smith all first round qbs, andy reid wouldn’t be who he his without mahomes he would still be looked as as a loser and a guy who can’t win the big dance
If that is not impressive imagine how unimpresive is Bill without Brady LOL@@kevonsidek9737
Julian made every excuse possible for bellichick. He’s clearly hoping it pays off in the future
Here is a "Stat" That is Absolutely BANANAS!! and Really Shows Toms GREATNESS....With The Bucs Tom Brady Was "64-0!!" in The Redzone...64 TDs & O INTs...Please Just Let This Marinate For a Moment Folks
Tom Brady made the Patriots Bill just sharpened the blade ,but make no mistake about it Brady was the blade
I agree with LeSean McCoy on this one.
i can tell this is old, and boy did it not age well.
If bledsoe didnt get injured, BB was probably getting sacked. Most overrated coach of all time, Amendola says it himself “we worked for Bill, we played for Tom”
Yeah I think Bill would’ve been gone after the 2002 season. Herm Edwards said Bill was insinuating to him before the Mo Lewis hit game that things weren’t going well for him. Skip Baylis had friends on the staff and said to him they were putting their homes up for sale because their jobs were on the line.
This is like saying Dr. Dre owe all his success to Eminem.
It was always Brady
When Belichick was at the Browns, they stunk it up. He was an average coach at BEST. I wouldn't have wanted him as a high school coach. Bring on Tom Brady...... HE was the biggest reason they won.
Who drafted Tom Brady and kept him on as the fourth qb on there team…. Something literally no team does…..
When bill moves to a new place, they will win.
It isn’t that bill wasn’t a great coach. It is just a great player is more value then a coaches. Great player can make a bad play work. A great coach can’t win for a long time without a great QB .
This is just recency bias. Bill set the foundation and Tom was a load bearing wall. Bill's coaching still made a great defenses even at the end, but it had to end like all things.
5-13 with Beldsoe was setting the foundations?
@@stephanea5364 W-L ratio does not equal team culture, especially when the coach is new and players need time to buy in. A better example is the Matt Cassell year, when the team went 11-5. That was 7 years into his coaching and his system was established.
His system of not making the playoffs with a loaded team? A team that went to the SB udeafeated the year before? Wow, I'm impressed LOL@@Machva
@@stephanea5364 did matt cassel ever go to the playoffs? its a QB league. people like you are clowns
@@Machva You and every other causal has a major problem with that lame Cassel Spin. The Patriots in 2008 had the lottery luck fortune of having the easiest strength by schedule in the NFL in 2008.
Now for the numbers > With Brady they went 18-1 and Brady was MVP and The Pats scored 600 points.
With Cassel they missed the playoffs and scored 400 points.
With Brady they scored almost 2 TD's more a game.
Brady threw 50 in 2007 /Cassel 23 in 2008
The loss of value without Brady was 44% (Statistical Forensics)
If Belichick was a stock on the Dow Jones market people who owned that stock lost 44% of value
Stock Holders would be jumping out of windows if they owned Belichick stock
Every great coach needs that leader at QB. How do you think Andy Reid would be doing without Mahomes? Reid was winning but couldn't get any Lombardi trophies until Mahomes came along. Reid had good QB's like Vick, McNabb, even Smith which are all better then what BB had after Brady but even with those QB's still couldn't win Super Bowls. Crazy how everyone tries to throw BB under the bus and discredit all he has accomplished.
Nice try pal . I'm a Bay area resident and i had the absolute misfortune of seeing Alex Smith play. Why do you think the Niners got rid of him. You spinning it like he was a good QB is pure bunk. Reid went 12-4 / 11-5 and 10-6 with Smith which was a miracle
And Belichick did have 3 -1st round/1st pick QB's overall (Kosar,Testverdi and Bledsoe) and all 3 were Pro Bowlers and he was a disaster with all three..
Here I'll throw him under the bus.
ill Belichicks Resume ⬇without Tom Brady
1991 out of playoffs
1992 out of playoffs
1993 out of playoffs
1995 out of playoffs
2000 out of playoffs
2001 (0-2) After Brady Week 3 > 14-3
2008 out of playoffs
2020 out of playoffs
2022 out of playoffs
2023 out of playoffs
A horrendous .437 Win% in 140 games without Brady > Sample size = 8.5 seasons
1 playoff win in 10 full seasons without Brady (Wild Card)
You put me in a Court of Law against one of Belichicks Lawyers and i would eviscerate him
@trevmac8362 Except for Bledsoe they all played for Bill for two years and were done. I think Mahomes and Reid took more time to get the gears running before they actually started winning Super Bowls. And just cause you make the Pro Bowl doesn't mean you're great. Sorry to say but Mac Jones is a Pro Bowler and look at him now. Again great QB's. Your right about Alex Smith tho.
@@dannye.3650 You backed yourself into a corner on that one because apparently Bill Belichick didn't agree with you on Bledsoe's value.
After the Pats went 5-11 with Bledsoe coach Belichick still gave Drew the largest contract $$$ in NFL history- 10 years for $100 million.
So this is where you stand > Either Belichicks judgment stinks for giving Bledsoe that contract or Bledsoe was just average . (He got the Pats to a SB with Parcells)
And let me add Tom Brady led the NFL in TD;s in 2002 and Bledsoe was still a Pro Bowler over him in Buffalo the next season.
Let me also add Mac Jones was a Top 2 QB prospect coming out of college
So this is where you stand > Belichick was a disaster with 3 - 1st round ,1st pick QB's overall and all 3 were Pro Bowlers.. Testaverde played until he was 42 ,Kosar got the Browns to the playoffs 5 straight years and won 3 playoff games and was sensational in 2 of them
And a Pro Bowler is a Pro Bowler - only 3 are picked in each conference and Bledsoe got to 4 of them
So try and tell me why Belichump gave Bledsoe that $100 million contract despite going 5-11 if Belichick didn't deem him good??
Go ahead I'll wait
And let me leave you once again with Belichicks record in 140 games without Brady = *.437 Win%*
And while you are processing all that information care to tell me how the great Belichimp only got one interview this year?
I'll tell you why > It's because everyone has it figured out now that Belichick was a Chump without Brady. Hell even Shannon Sharpe admitted it. And Shannon hated Brady
Do you know more than a Hall of Fame TE (that would be my next question?)
@trevmac8362 I love Bledsoe so I honestly didn't like how things ended for him in New England. It was again a decision made for the GOAT so it had to be done at the end of the day. A gamble BB rolled the dice on. And again making it to the probowl is cool but still doesn't hold the same value as Lombardi trophies. I never really like BB as a general manager. And no, I absolutely wouldn't know more about football than Sharpe but there are also Hall of Famers that'll go down saying BB is a GOAT. Just because you are picked in the first round doesn't mean your great either. There are plenty of first rounders who killed it in college becomes total busts. BB has always been known for the defense and Brady was the piece to lead the offense. I'm pretty sure Brady wasn't catching the ball or playing defense and he certainly wasn't a runner but together they made it work. Tampa Bay was stacked when Brady got there so you're not going to act like that didn't play a part in his success out of Foxboro.
@@dannye.3650 Nice try Chump. It was no gamble it was the only choice to make (From 5-13 to 14-3) with Brady. You can try and undermine it but it';s useless.
Bucs weren't stacked. They hadn't made the playoffs in 12 years and Brady threw for an astronomical 14.600 yards and 110 TD's in 3 years (Best in the NFL) Nice try.. The Bucs are the only team in NFL to score 30+ points in 5 consecutive playoff games. They scored 1000 points in Brady's first 2 seasons there and dopes like yourself are making a feeble attempt to undermine Brady's in credible accomplishment there.
Here's food for thought - Drew Brees is 2nd all time for passing TD's after the age of 40 with 53
Brady has thrown for 199 after the age of 40
I'll help you understand that. That's like Brady winning a 26.2 mile marathon and Brees is still running at mile 6 and the rest haven't got to the starting line.
Bro saying Bill didn’t win anything after Tom left is such a dumb argument. It’s impossible to keep winning for that long. When Brady left most of the long time leadership on the team had already left or was a season or two away from leaving. Teams in the nfl take a decade to find a good qb that wins for them. It’s not exactly something you do overnight. How about we go off what his former players say about him? Without Bill, Brady might be an insurance salesman rn
Absolutely, I could have coach and won with, brady,or manning,no experience, hof qbs make huge difference
😂 keep telling yourself that
Brady wouldn’t have beat the Seahawks without the help of Malcom Butler and Pete Carroll
The Browns went to the playoffs 5 of 6 years before Belichick; 1 of 5 with Belichick.
This is stupid - both needed each other. Go ask Peyton Manning how many more SB’s he’d win with Bill.
Peyton would have to play with subpar weapons most of the time and he's a choker, not a good combination. Peyton always had the privilege to play with stacked offenses and it wouldn't have been the case with Bill. And who knows if Peyton would have been able to accept Bill's ruthles coaching.
I am pretty sure Brady didn't need Belichick. He won without him with Bruce Arians. Belichick had not proven he could win without Brady yet. He tried the last 4 seasons but failed. That's why he is fired and still haven't found a team that wants to hire him yet.
Peyton manning would’ve had to play with mediocre weapons most of the time cuz bill was a defensive minded coach so it wouldn’t have worked plus manning was a habitual playoff choker
@@kevonsidek9737 That's kind of my point: great coaching from folks like BB is a talent multiplier. Peyton played with some HOF'ers (like Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison) but still only came out with 1 SB in his entire Colts era...(eventually ending up with his second after the Broncos went all-in for short-term wins.)
TB12 is my all-time favorite quarterback, but I don't think his talent was 5x the talent of Peyton Manning. But TB12 + BB, sometimes it DID feel that way.
@@Tony_YT Belichick is not a talent multiplier. He is a talent divider. He is a horrible talent evaluator. He is one of the worse GM in the league. That's one of the reason why he is unemployed. Brady was the force multiplier that took Belichick's trash picks and turned them into household names.
Lesean and Colt are 2 brothers who should enter the HOF together.
I can’t take him seriously he wouldn’t say this if he was a patriot
its a LONG fall from the top when it happens. HOWEVER, dont forget! the majority of the SB wins Brady has he needed a DEFENSE to make these things happen. its not like he was out there blowing teams out. there was a mastermind holding the other team back just enough to give Brady his chances to win the games. but there are a TON of examples where brady let the game get away and the mastermind was able to keep the game managable!
Nobody forget Belichick fraud record without Brady. Nobody said he is a system coach tho
A mastermind who didn't win without Brady, one playoff win in eleven seasons LOL Why his mastermind wasn't working without Brady?
Mastermind for those low brain cell stans@@stephanea5364
Hey fool how's this for that mastermind Belichick
Bill Belichicks Resume ⬇without Tom Brady
1991 out of playoffs
1992 out of playoffs
1993 out of playoffs
1995 out of playoffs
2000 out of playoffs
2001 (0-2) After Brady Week 3 > 14-3
2008 out of playoffs
2020 out of playoffs
2022 out of playoffs
2023 out of playoffs
A horrendous *.437 Win%* in 140 games without Brady > Sample size = 8.5 seasons
1 playoff win in 10 full seasons without Brady (Wild Card)
Care For More I'll gladly oblige you. There are no playoffs or SB's without Brady and i just proved it to an absolute 100% undisputed certainty
Clearly Edelman who played with both of them doesn’t agree😂😂😂 but hey you guys who didn’t know better then he does.
It was born over night Julian, Drew Bledsoe got hurt, Tom won a Super Bowl 🤷🏻♂️
Bruh why does everyone hate Belichick so much
Belicheck picked Brady, Belicheck gave brady his chance. Belicheck coached Brady to be as good as he is. Stupid to say it's just cause of Brady.
He gave opportunity, in return Brady carried his bums record to GOAT HC. Belifraud cant work with other 1st rounders qb, and the one he picked.
Patriots Chief Scout Larry Cook who covered the Big 10 for the Pats picked Brady. Belichick wasn't even hired until 4 months after the 1999 college season ended. Belichick might have been the GM but it was Cook who watched Brady play.
@@andreasdwiputra8818
yeah...Belichick was losing with Bledsoe
Brady saved Belichick's job
Always trust that McCoy has the worst takes in football haven’t seen a single good one
He said facts. Records without Brady is facts.
I guess people you just can't accept facts and the truth.
Bill Belichicks Resume ⬇without Tom Brady
1991 out of playoffs
1992 out of playoffs
1993 out of playoffs
1995 out of playoffs
2000 out of playoffs
2001 (0-2) After Brady Week 3 > 14-3
2008 out of playoffs
2020 out of playoffs
2022 out of playoffs
2023 out of playoffs
A horrendous .437 Win% in 140 games without Brady > Sample size = 8.5 seasons
1 playoff win in 10 full seasons without Brady (Wild Card)
And apparently every team in the NFL figured this out also because last time i heard Bill is going to be a hot dog vendor at Foxborough Stadium this season
Want to try me on for size Chump?
I'm Waiting
*Waits* For You Chump
TB was amazing, but the early years of the Dynasty were led by defense...TB had great moments, but it was D first. Tough to judge BB fairly post-TB...all teams struggle until they find their franchise QB.
Funny how without Tom, that D first mentality went nowhere fast LOL
@@stephanea5364 seriously? D was hardly the problem with the Pats last yr...despite missing their D captain and first round pick most of the yr. Pats D was ranked #4, #8, and #7 in yards/game over the last 3 seasons. The problem was offense...and specifically QB & WR. Imagine that
So what I said is true, team got nowhere even with great defense. When you're used to give spara parts to your QB, you think it will be the same with another one, but no. And now Bill has to overpay instead of underpay@@beachbummer3434
So that prove my point, Bill with his so great defense can't win without Brady@@beachbummer3434
So they won a Sb with that defense and another QB? Name them LOL@@beachbummer3434
bill went to the playoffs with rookie mac jones... all he had to do was fix the offensive line and they could have been back in again and again. and his coach reid comment is a miss. he had alex smith for what 5 seasons. alex was never gonna get over that hump. reid can only win with HOF qb's..... reid was just over an average head coach...... mahomes is the one saving reid.
pretty certain, BB was already a champion before TB came along.
Riding the coattail of another man
Giants
I'll help you out with that pal
Bill Belichicks Head Coaching Resume ⬇without Tom Brady
1991 out of playoffs
1992 out of playoffs
1993 out of playoffs
1995 out of playoffs
2000 out of playoffs
2001 (0-2) After Brady Week 3 > 14-3
2008 out of playoffs
2020 out of playoffs
2022 out of playoffs
2023 out of playoffs
A horrendous .437 Win% in 140 games without Brady > Sample size = 8.5 seasons
1 playoff win in 10 full seasons without Brady (Wild Card)
@@AlwaysHalloween000 Was BB a Super bowl champion before TB? Yes. Case closed.
This has nothing to do with who was more valuable.
@@plainwhitepaper3898 No Champ Bill Parcells who was a defensive genius going all the way back to the 1960's in college was the head coach of the Giants - Helped by the greatest player in Defensive history (Lawrence Taylor) that lame spin where assistant count is as weak as it gets.
Case is closed on your head
It was 90 percent Brady 10 percent Bellichek
Did Gregg Popovich ride Tim Duncan's coattails?
Yes. And I love everything about the Spurs. But unlike Bill, Pop will be the first one to say “no Tim, no championships” gives all the credit to him being able to take the criticism at practice and set the tone that everyone is accountable whether you are an all star or not.
That’s the exact comparison to Bill.
Rome crashed because of ONE guy leaving? lol Come on man
he was successful before he even became HC of the patriots.
next.
In what fucking world was he successful before he came to the Patriots having a losing record with the browns is successful 🤣😂
@@ayoolou9392 2 rings. amazing defensive mind. somehow brought the browns to a winning season which should have given him a nobel prize on its own lol
@@Onarca 2 rings of riding bill parcells coattails and the greatest defensive player of all time 🤣😂 and giving a noble prize for having 1 successful seasons with the browns outta 5 or 4 🤣🤣 that's pathetic
@@ayoolou9392 im sorry. it must be exhausting being so angry and cynical all the time. i genuinely wish the best for you homie ❤
@@Onarca 😂 bro really trying to go the angry route lmao it's okay bro bill is a losing hc without Brady 😭😂
What’s with the pillow
Brady made coach look great, without Brady, New England is less than Zero...
Bill 2-0 against Big Red when it really counts
Brady is 3-0 against Big red. Bill got carried
It's tough listening to him. Seems one-sided to me his thoughts
Shady's justifications are a bit shady at times.
Drew Bledsoe Tom Brady could fly!
Edelnut trying so hard to defend bill(because he wants to everually have him as a guest), almost like he’s trying to convince himself that hes NOT trash w/o brady lol
Or because he’s not a punk like shady is.
@@mattshamblinhow is he a punk you bill lovers get so upset when people don't call him the greatest
@@ayoolou9392 did I say anything about bill? No bill lover here. Shady is just a punk.
@@mattshamblin how 🤣😂 because he gave his opinion
@@ayoolou9392 yes and his opinion makes him a punk. Listen to the whole interview. Just tries to explain why he his better. Sounds like an insecure high school kid
This is such a lazy argument. It’s an easy argument without looking at the facts.
He has a losing record without Brady there is the fact
Sub.500 coach wo Brady. Dead rotten coaching trees. Brady fed those bums. How bout that facts
I got 49ers over Chiefs. Who yall got??
Refs over 49ers