The JTB Reptiles Official Merch Store is now OPEN! Visit it here - my-store-11648236.creator-spring.com/ Looking for the reptile lighting equipment used in my enclosures? Find it here: ---- UK ----- LED lighting - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles/led-lighting-uk Tungsten-halogen lamps - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles/tungsten-halogen-lamps-uk Fluorescent lighting - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles/linear-fluorescent-uv-lamps-tech-uk Metal halides & equipment - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles/metal-halides-equipment-uk Solarmeter 6.5 - amzn.to/31uqUGF ---- US ---- LED lighting - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles/led-lighting-us Tungsten-halogen lamps - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles/tungsten-halogen-lamps-us Fluorescent lighting - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles/linear-fluorescent-uv-lamps-tech-us Zoo Med PowerSun Metal Halide Kit - amzn.to/3suYrwm Solarmeter 6.5 - amzn.to/3d3rlNs ---- Ca ---- LED lighting - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles/led-lighting-ca Tungsten-halogen lamps - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles/tungsten-halogen-lamps-ca Fluorescent lighting - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles/linear-fluorescent-uv-lamps-tech-ca Zoo Med PowerSun Metal Halide Kit - amzn.to/3igD7Gq Solarmeter 6.5 - amzn.to/3skXGWd New to the channel? You might want to start here - ua-cam.com/video/dUJZ04sqhxk/v-deo.html Follow nature’s example - ua-cam.com/users/JTBReptiles Instagram - instagram.com/jtb_reptile/?hl=en Facebook - facebook.com/pages/category/Video-Creator/JTB-Reptiles-472487643238124/ The supplies I use - kit.co/JTB_Reptiles Advancing Herpetological Husbandry - facebook.com/groups/AdvancingHerpHusbandry Reptile Lighting Group - facebook.com/groups/ReptileLighting/
thank you for your knowledge and experience. i work at a petstore and every day i try to learn more about reptiles specifically to make sure my care is as up to date and accurate for the reptiles as possible.
That’s so important! So many people buy from pet stores and aren’t told the proper info! Thanks for trying to educate new reptile owners!! I’m sure that saves a lot of rehoming!!
I think the way you always explain the things you say helps people understand why they should be doing things differently. Instead of just saying "this is how it is so do this" which many creators do. It always leaves me questioning how they reached that conclusion? Like where do you find your info? What does it mean? Why does it benefit my reptile to do this? And so on. The fact that you always explain everything and that it actually makes sense from a logical standpoint is so helpful. Just wanted to say I really appreciate how much work you put into educating us.
Thank you very much! I came to those thoughts myself years ago, which is why I produce the style of content I do today. Everybody says with conviction that THEIR way of doing things is right, yet everybody has their own recommendations which go against those of other people: don’t feed snakes in the vivarium Vs. do feed snakes in the vivarium; don’t put dragons on sand Vs. do put dragons on sand; don’t cohabitate Vs. do cohabitate; use a temp gun Vs. use a probe... The list goes on. If nobody can give any better explanation than “I’ve been doing it for 10 years and haven’t had a problem”, how can we be certain that we’re doing the right thing?
@@JTBReptiles I wholeheartedly agree. These are questions that need to be asked and answered with facts not with opinions. If we hadn't learned to evolve past "this is how it's always been done" there are so many things we never would have known about and been able to do. I feel like people greatly underestimate how much reptiles, and animals in general, truly are capable of. There is still so much we don't know. It seems arrogant to assume we know everything and that "my way is the only way" when it comes to their care.
Ooo you have Canada-specific links, bless your soul! Also, your timing could not have been more perfect, I'm currently monitoring temperatures in a new enclosure for my snake before introducing her
Fantastic video and very well explained. Extremely logical thesis. Looks like I'm on the right track for my Phelsuma Klemmeri enclosure. I have a small 35w halogen bulb on their basking spot running at 100% (with a thermostat, set up with the probe outside the tank so as if my bedroom gets to 26c it shuts off) and I control the temperature using PC fans. At the moment I have it on a timer, with the fan running constantly throughout the warmest 4 hours of the day and then for brief periods around that timespan. I would like to have a temperature controller set up for my fans, almost like a thermostatically actuated switching system but I am not sure if such a thing exists. Nonetheless I look forward to your upcoming video and thank you for pushing the envelope with herping! 👍
Thanks very much! That sounds just about right. You definitely can get thermostats for fans, I think they sell them as "cooling thermostats". My videos on controlling temperatures will be out ~3 months from now as I want to make sure they are perfect before release, so hang tight!
Great info! Your Chanel is highly underrated, and Char is so handsome! My adult male is just a beige with some oranges, but my baby’s parents were citrus and red! Can’t wait to see her colours as an adult! She’s gorgeous even at a few months old!
Looking forward to the next video about controlling temps. I have recently increased my overall temps a few degrees higher in my newest self built vivarium and have noticed an increase in my Leopard Geckos activity levels.
The next videos in this particular series won’t be out for a few months yet, unfortunately - with summer exams rapidly approaching, I haven’t got the time to deal with them! (I have three videos in the pipeline, but they’re all on separate topics.) Sorry about that! Thanks for watching 😁
@@JTBReptiles Hey no problem I am a patient person. I enjoy your videos as you have a fresh perspective and your information aligns with my feeling and experience. I watch a lot of videos to try and glean as much information as possible to try and give my beasties the best life conditions I can. Good luck in the exams!
I'm having trouble with my halogen on the dimming setting using a herpstat thermostat. When in this setting the lamp flickers on and off throughout the day but it does it quite alot in the morning when it's getting to the set temperature. It was recommended to me to put the probe right underneath the reflector in the middle where the beam of light is strongest. However I still have the same problem. This morning it was very apparent that my corn snake was annoyed at the least by this because she moved from out in the open to going into her humid cave. I'm thinking about replacing it for a deep heat projector and installing one of those smart led light bulbs and programming it to dim during Dusk and dawn, dont know how it'll work out but hopefully it does.
Brilliant video mate, thank you for the time and effort that you put into all of these videos. I for one certainly appreciate it and I know many others do too! :)
Lets see if I got it right before watching. I have a probe on the basking spot, a digital without a probe on the cool end and a gun to take temps all over. All 3 tanks have their own gun so no varied differences between the 3 if used on all different tanks and guns( if you understand what I am trying to say).
I think a great lesson to learn from this is simply most of our enclosures just aren't big enough?! I've been running tests with different wattage lamps and a dhp on my latest 6x3x2.5 (width, height, depth) enclosure and can keep a 100w halogen on full almost all the time using a dimmer thermostat as an overheating precaution. This is obviously species specific and completely reliant on factors like ambient room temperature. I can't see how this theory can be used on small vivariums safely without a computer controlled system. Excellent video and leaves a lot to think about!
The question is, what wattage tungsten halogen lamp are we to choose? We shouldn’t be choosing it on the basis of temperature, which is only a product of its action: we should be choosing it by direct selection of its output. So, instead of seeing how warm it gets when the lamp is left on (which is a product not just of the lamp but the temperature of the room, the ventilation of the vivarium, the insulation of the vivarium, and so on), we consider its output directly. We already do this with UV lamps when we consider the UV index: soon enough we will be doing something very similar with near infrared and, indeed, for visible light which is yet another consideration. Only AFTER we have got the radiation right do we start thinking about temperature control, which should be achieved without altering the “sunlight” we have established. You are right though... The bigger the viv, the easier this gets. Thanks for watching!
@@JTBReptiles I look forward to seeing how we can optimise how to provide natural radiation! Until then, all I can think of doing is not having a lamp barely lit in a small vivarium because after a few seconds the enclosure has reached the temperature at which a stat has been set to, which is a great lesson your video teaches!
I was really excited you used Alice Springs as an example and thought you were going to say Morelia bredli as that’s where they are found, but you had to go the Bearded Dragon route!
The lacertid is a western green lizard, Lacerta bilineata. The other green lizards in the video are lined day geckos, Phelsuma lineata bombetokensis (although I am guessing you aren’t referring to these!).
I'm a tad confused lol Firstly great and informative video but I just need clarification on some points. When you say 35 degrees (Beardies) are talking about the ambient temp of the hot end? Also where is your thermostat placed? Or where would you recommend it be placed?
The point I was getting at when talking about the air temperature (i.e. the ambient temperature) is that it is the same (pretty much) everywhere in the enclosure: whether at the basking site or elsewhere, the air will be the same temperature. (To this end, there is no "hot end" or "cool end" of an enclosure - this is why I say "basking site" and "shaded area(s)".) The reason your probe thermometer reads a higher temperature at the basking site is not because the air is warmer there but because the probe is absorbing more radiation from the lamps. (On a sunny day, try stepping into the shadow of a tree or other large object, then step back out into the sun. You feel warmer in the sun, but clearly the air cannot sustain a different temperature over such a small horizontal distance!) Therefore, the only way of measuring the ambient temperature in the enclosure (and again, there is only _one_ ambient temperature for the whole enclosure, as far as need concerns us) is to ensure that the probe is in the shade. It must also not be in contact with any objects to ensure no conduction between it and them. Remember that the specific value of the air temperature does not matter: as long as it's not so high or low as to be uncomfortable for the reptile AND you are properly replicating sunlight (critically for this purpose, replicating visible light and near infrared, because together these fractions of sunlight are primarily responsible for warming things up), the reptile will be able to thermoregulate as it would in nature. Think about it - the air temperature can vary by quite a significant degree but so long as there's sunlight, a herp will be able to thermoregulate just fine. How else can African Sulcata tortoises be kept outdoors for most of the year in British zoos? So, given the above, all we need to do is replicate sunlight and stop the air in the enclosure getting so warm or so cold that it isn't comfortable for the reptile. We must also ensure that surfaces aren't uncomfortably hot or cold, but again, their specific temperatures do not matter. Replicating sunlight I have spoken about in many videos before and will do so again in the future. We are close - quite close, I would say - to having a way of determining the intensity of NIR; once we have it and we settle on a method for determining the intensity of visible light, we will be quite good at replicating sunlight indeed. Again, it is ESSENTIAL that sunlight is replicated PROPERLY for thermoregulation. Maintaining air and surface temperatures I haven't spoken about yet - all that stuff about thermostats I am still to address. Videos detailing this will be out in the summer, so hang tight! I don't want to try and explain it all here; the stuff I'd say needs peer reviewing before it's shared publicly.
Q = emissivity * SB constant * (Tsolid^4 - Tair^4) . Once one understands this equation, one knows how to place probes and the difference between radiation and temperature
That's the key bit: "understands". I find with equations most people don't realise that there's an _understanding_ part, they just learn the symbols and know how to pop the numbers into a calculator. That's how we got taught in school, anyway. When it comes down to it, pretty much all equations are simplified expressions of things that could be explained qualitatively, so qualitative explanation is what I aim for in these videos as hopefully that's what people will understand.
Does this “pretty much the same air temperature everywhere throughout the enclosure” include directly under or few inches below the basking lamp itself??? I’m trying to make sure that it’s not too high of an air temperature right under the basking lamps themselves and the readings are higher than what’s safe (95 degrees f in this case) but all my basking surface and air are good and the rest of the enclosure air temperatures are good. My snake will be able to access the area directly under the lamps while she is basking, so I’m just trying to make sure that it’s safe even though the readings are over the allowed 95°f… it’s be safe since the rest of the air at the top/ceiling level of the cool side in shade is reading below that… this is the actual number I need to trust and refer to?
Hello, I purchased a uromastyx. The temperature inside the enclosure is not going past 90°F. I have a 150 basking bulb, a heating mat and a 10.0 uvb bulb. What would u recommend to increase his temperature. ( I have a 35-40 gallon enclosure and my heating mat is working).
Have a look at this video for lighting (in the video I showcase my western green lizards, but the lighting setup used would work well for a uromastyx): ua-cam.com/video/UEcm0YwfAIg/v-deo.html Remember, it is not the temperature which matters so much as the radiation. So long as your lighting is spot on - so linear UV lamp to offer UV indices about 6 at the basking zone falling to 0 in the shade, high lux in the tens of thousands at the basking site (offered with a good spot LED or metal halide), and a comfortable intensity of NIR; I explain all this in the linked video, above - then as long as the temps aren't extreme (i.e. too hot or too cold), the lizard will be able to thermoregulate as it would in nature.
Really good video! I've experimented with digital thermometers before, placing them around the enclosure and as you say, the only time their reading increases is when they're near a lamp. I've also always been dubious about surface temperatures.
It seems like your assuming the tank is a closed system which it isn't. In a closed system it will achieve equilibrium. In this case we add heat on one side while heat is lost to ambient temp of the room on the other side.
Appearances can be deceiving 😉 I have considered this, of course I have. If room temp is (say for the sake of argument) 20 degrees C and the air leaving the enclosure is (say) 24 degrees C, then there must be SOME gradient of air temperature somewhere between the inside of the enclosure and out. The question is where: is it across the whole enclosure, linear between basking site and shaded area, or is it something different? It is not all too difficult to find out: all you need to do is use a heating element which does NOT offer significant radiation (i.e. warms the air directly), as then you can dangle your probe anywhere in the enclosure and it will be able to equilibrate in temperature with adjacent air. Doing exactly this (using a ceramic heat emitter which, as you know, doesn’t offer much radiation) shows that the air temperature gradient is small from one end of the enclosure to another. I only ever used ceramic heat emitters for years, and this was something I noticed very early on: in a 2’ viv, there was no air temperature gradient; in a 4’ viv, the gradient was 2 degrees; in a 5’ viv insulated at the end near the ceramic heat emitter but NOT at the opposite end [therefore favouring temperature gradient buildup] the gradient was still only 5 degrees C. (These measurements were all taken in wooden vivaria: in glass vivaria we would expect the gradients to be even smaller if not nonexistent.) These values are all well within the scope of an “acceptable temperature range” as determined using the method detailed in the video (i.e. using weather data); they are not the 20 degrees placing a probe under an incandescent lamp versus in the shade would have you think. Therefore, so long as the cool end air is a few degrees from the maximum temperature we have deemed suitable, we can expect the warm end air to be in the suitable range, also. I would therefore say that the air temperature gradient in a vivarium is not “significant”. The question then becomes, why are the air temperature gradients like this? I believe that the answer to this is that the diffusion of air around the inside of the vivarium must be faster than the transfer of air between the inside and outside of the enclosure. This stands to reason, given the relatively small area of vents. Perhaps if we were to have a short enclosure with a full mesh top and radiation directed at one end only, a more significant air temperature gradient could be maintained - in this case, objects below the radiation source would warm the air around them, and this warm air would go straight upwards and through the mesh rather than moving horizontally towards the other end of the enclosure. With all that being said, it must be stressed that I purposefully omit certain things from videos. This upload had its first version made in January: the version you’ve watched is actually the third. In all that time, me and the peer review team were doing all manner of experiments to test the validity of what I’ve said. The first edition of this video was an extra 5 minutes long and talked about thermostats as well as giving a brief overview of how we can go about controlling air temperatures. The problem is, too much in one go makes it too complicated. With each video a decision needs to be made about what makes the cut and what doesn’t: enough needs to be said to cover the obvious questions and explain the premise, but much beyond that and an already niche video is made unaccessible to virtually everybody. To summarise: in a practical sense it is very difficult to measure the air temperature at the basking site using a probe as it will be heated through radiation and thus cannot equilibrate in temperature with the air around it. However, we can expect that the temperature of the air measured at the shaded part of the enclosure (which IS easy to do) won’t be significantly far off from that at the basking site. (In the video, I think I summarised this as “the air temperature will be pretty much the same everywhere”, or words to that effect.) Therefore, just looking at the shaded portion air temperature as though it is the air temperature across the whole vivarium is a suitable approach.
Always interesting. But what about an ideal temperature where the animal doesn't need to warm up or cool down? Say, out in nature, it's a cloudy, warm day. Critters are neither basking, nor are they hiding, but just out and about doing their thing. Is it healthier for them to have to seek these extremes of warming and cooling? Not sure if that makes sense, but there ya go.
Our aim is not to establish extremes of warm and cool: we replicate what is a natural air temperature for a species, replicate sunlight, and let them thermoregulate as they choose. When it is not sunny, most species don't come out: frogs in my garden don't croak unless it's a sunny day; friends who have lizards in outdoor enclosures don't see them when it's overcast. Rarely is the air temperature high enough on a cloudy day for herps to become active. Many herps have a preferred body temperature between 35 and 40 degrees C; 35 to 40 degree air with no sunlight doesn't come about often! With that being said, it is certainly possible to engineer this unnatural situation using a ceramic heat emitter as a standalone device, but then the animal won't be able to move to and from light and shade in order to thermoregulate as it has evolved to, and it won't receive the benefits of exposure to radiation which aren't just heating - tissue repair, D3 synthesis, and so on. Of course, if we are keeping the enclosure in the natural temperature range, then even thermal conformers which may appear not to interact with a lighting rig (they will do, just not so obviously) must necessarily be able to reach their active body temperatures without any further special treatment (one must presume that thermal conformers have lower average body temperatures than other species). Hope that answers your question!
@@JTBReptiles Perhaps using the word "extreme" was a mistake, but rather the upper and lower ranges of comfort. If reptiles can be too cold and too warm, then there must be a temp in the middle that feels just right. In the wild, critters are exposed to some pretty wild fluctuations. Where I live, frost is not unheard of even in the summer. It can be 70's during the day and 30's at night (Fahrenheit). There are however, those few days that are cloudy and in the 70's and snakes, frogs, and toads are out and about. Frogs where I live don't generally say much during daylight hours, just evenings and early mornings before the sun comes up. As captives, we shelter them from predators, floods, parasites and whatnot, so should they be sheltered from temperature fluctuations as well? Or are they healthier when exposed to those changes. Or perhaps the activity of thermoregulation is just another form of enrichment. Without the need to thermoregulate, maybe they would just get fat and lazy like ball pythons in tubs.
@@jimthomas6127 There's a lot of variables. Lets say we use this perfect (read preferred) body temperature of a Burmese python, which is around 29/30C, and feed the snake a large meal. The meal will raise the snakes metabolic rate and therefore its body temperature, in order for the snake to maintain 29C body temperature, it likely has to move to a place that's around 27C to compensate for the raise in body temperature
You've hit the part of the nail on the head towards the end of that paragraph: thermoregulation can, I suppose, be considered enrichment. As I said in the video, you COULD warm the air in the enclosure such that it is an optimal temperature for the reptiles and offer none of the sun's wavelengths - that's what people have done for years by heating rooms and using ceramic het emitters. But it isn't natural that a herp should spend its entire life just at a comfortable temperature. The majority of them, the majority of the time, spend their days shuttling to and from light and shade. You can get away with just warming the air when keeping species which interact relatively little with sunlight (crepuscular and nocturnal species, namely), but if you try it with diurnal species, their suffering will be immediately obvious (take bearded dragons as an example). This leads on to the point that radiation doesn't just warm things up: it has other metabolic interactions. Even if the air temperature is conducive to activity, there will be no tissue repair, no D3 synthesis, no visible light stimulation, no sensing UVA... In effect, by going down the radiation route rather than warming the air, we are giving our herps the chance to thermoregulate as they would _most_ of the time in nature and allowing them to receive the benefits that radiation offers besides just warmth. There's a reason that people who keep reptiles and amphibians outdoors select a sunny spot for the enclosure and don't just put it in the shade!
@@JTBReptiles I'm new to snake keeping. I've been at it for less than a year, so I question everything. From day one I've thought the whole heat mat/ belly heat thing was a bit unnatural so I had to find a rational explanation for this approach, the explanation of course being that many snakes come out after the sun goes down to absorb radiant heat from rocks and pavement. In that regard, belly heat is not entirely unnatural as some would say. Also, as strictly an observation, I don't see snakes come out first thing in the morning to bask, but they appear to wait until the ground or surrounding rocks have warmed which would also indicate that they are using radiant heat. maybe the direct heating from the sun is just a byproduct. I know it sounds like I am arguing for heat mats but I'm really not. My preference at this point is halogen bulb above rock, with a gradual cool down during the night.
The questions remain, how big is the temperature difference, how do the temperatures compare with what weather stations report, and is this actually relevant to what we're doing in vivaria? Remember that we're only aiming for ball-park figures: not too hot, not too cold, but anything in the middle. The herps can sort themselves from there, provided we've replicated sunlight accurately.
Great video! So going by what you said, which makes perfect sense btw, are you adjusting the temperature (and therefore the radiation level accordingly) seasonally either up or down? Is there a benefit for this seasonal change? Doing my research before buying a Bearded dragon and this topic is fascinating. Thanks!
Yes, the air temperature is controlled seasonally to match weather data, and radiation is changed by having the lamps coming on for less time during the summer. Ideally I'd like to have it so that the peak intensity of each wavelength was less during the winter (which isn't achieved just by having shorter photoperiods), but this isn't so simple to accomplish without using different lamps.
What a brilliant video and it all makes perfect sense! How can the air temperature outside be different only a few feet away of course it isn't, it is radiation! I tend to have a temperature probe at the hot end and the cool end, but do I really need one at the hot end anymore? Monitoring the temps in a shaded area surely makes more sense? If we use a corn snake for example the temperatures vary from region to region and looking at the very useful information from Snakes N Ladders Alabama peaks at over 30 and Florida into the mid 30's during summer months for day and low 20's for night. Therefore could we happily set a day temperature from a probe reading at the cooler end to read happily in the higher 20's, say 27/28? I have been trying to keep the cool end at say 24 and the hot end at 27 but possibly could I increase these temps? The next part is how does your thermostat probe then fit into all of this as well! Too many questions and fried brain now :-)
Thank goodness it made sense, I’ve been worrying for months whether this video would just be overcomplicated mush to people so that’s great to hear! Yes, you’re bang on. The apparent warm end/cool end temp difference is because of the lamps illuminating the thermometer, not major differences in the temperature of the air in a few horizontal feet of space! I would try if possible to keep the air temperature (as measured with the probe dangled free in the shade) at the lower end of the acceptable range. I will be talking more in a few months about exactly why this is the case and how you can pull it off (using fans - I use the Lucky Reptile fans). In peak summer for a corn snake I’d aim at 20-25. Always remember that too hot is more dangerous than too cold, because a reptile can always bask more to warm up, but in a box it can only do so much to cool down. Thanks for watching!
@@JTBReptiles Understood aim for the lower end so the animal has a choice to warm up rather than not being able to cool down. I fitted some lucky reptile fans on our Corn enclosure mainly for humidity purposes to aid air flow to reduce during day and then to let it rise overnight. I have one blowing in at the cool end and the drawing air out of the hot end. Also run just one on the hognose to draw out the air from the hot end. Look forward to how you are using the fans in the coming videos :-)
I'm sticking to my ackie setup lol. Radiant heat panel fixed to a herpstat thermostat on the cool end at a continuous 70f and on the hot end a bulb with a hot spot of 145f. Two digital hydro thermometers at the cool and hot ends centralized at ground level (not near bulb on hot end I check that daily with a temp gun. I give over 20 ground level hide spots with multiple elevated points with 6 to 9 inches of mixed substrate. This gives the animal multiple choices with some hide spots hitting 99% humidity ect. He's healthy active and shedding well so something is right. O also have a 22 uvb that he's got a angled basking log running underneath.
Do you only have a radiant heat panel? No incandescent lamps, no metal halide or spot LED? There is much more to radiation than just warmth. Just as you cannot induce cutaneous D3 synthesis without proper UVB lighting, you cannot induce the metabolic effects of NIR and visible light without providing them in the right intensities. See here: ua-cam.com/video/UEcm0YwfAIg/v-deo.html ...and here: ua-cam.com/video/dUJZ04sqhxk/v-deo.html ...for more on this.
@@JTBReptiles he's got a Arcadia uvb and I had a top states dwarf monitor breeder have a look over my current set up and his only question was the ventilation and that I had to much at the time.
@@JTBReptiles o and of course the outdoor halogen spot for his basking spot I'd be worried if my radiant heat panel hit 145 lol I'd get the fire extinguisher out on that case
“Too much ventilation”? I’d like to know how an enclosure can be too well-ventilated considering that - unless you have some seriously powerful fans - the air flow through the enclosure will be nothing compared to even a light breeze in nature. How is that 145 Fahrenheit being measured? If that is the genuine air temperature (measured with a probe in the shade, as described in the video) the lizard would be dead, so it cannot be that. If it is the surface temperature of a stone, the lizard will certainly avoid settling on it when it has gotten that hot. Forgive my bluntness, but whoever is recommending that cannot understand what they are measuring or the potential for damage such practice involves. I predict that you are likely either using a probe thermometer sat under the lamps or you are measuring a surface temperature with a gun; if that surface is a stone the lizard will rarely sit on it - if it is a piece of wood, though, it may show no particular aversion of it. Here is some additional food for thought. The intensity of infrared A on a clear day near the equator is about 300W/m^2. Offer significantly less than this and the metabolic implications are lost; significantly more and there is a real risk of overexposure. A similar sentence can be composed for visible light. Temperatures are affected not just by radiation but by the ability of the vivarium to lose heat; thus if you choose your lamps based on temperatures, your choice will be heavily influenced by factors other than the intensity of radiation you are offering. How can you know that conditions are optimal? If the “top US breeder” has to use a 100W halogen lamp to get his temps up and you need to use a 70W lamp (for example), which of you is offering the correct IRA intensity? Are either of you? And what about visible light - without a dedicated source, for a diurnal heliocentric species like a monitor you will definitely be under-providing it. It is not hard to get reptiles to breed, for the most part. After perhaps the desires to eat, drink, run from predators, and (how very topical) move for thermoregulatory purposes, the desire to breed is one of the strongest urges of any animal. You can keep a reptile warm enough for activity with no great difficulty, and often doing this is all that is required to keep them alive and apparently well to the point that they will breed reliably, but it does not mean that everything is being done perfectly.
@@JTBReptiles because monitors need that huge amount of humidity with insanely high basking spot so in his explanation you need a limited ventilation otherwise you just dry out the vivarium with such hot heat sources inside. This man has been producing top ender ackies , kimbs, kings and black heads and more for decades so I go by his wisdom and success of producing amazing animals.
Or just impatient 🙃 I can’t recommend anything about use of supplements beyond following manufacturer’s guidelines. Personally I do not believe that enough research has been done to be certain of the efficacy of any supplements - my approach is to use lots of different supplements in rotation (I use 6 different ones); this with a varied diet I hope will give my reptiles ample opportunity to take from their diets what the require. We could do with more studies in this area.
I'm not following your points about thermometers being warmer or cooler based on position relative to the basking bulb as opposed to sensing an air gradient. It doesn't matter what a thermometer under a basking bulb or on the cool end gives a specific temperature reading. We can know an animal at the same location would experience the same temperature. Whatever the temperature of the thermometer or it's probe is, the captive reptile would also be, which is what we care about.
I know where you're coming from, but you are incorrect for a number of reasons. - The probe is permanently at one location whereas the reptile moves around. (If you leave something in the sun all day, then leaving that same something in the sun for twenty minutes won't result in its being the same temperature!) - The probe has a different surface area:volume ratio to the reptile (by an enormous margin) and therefore its temperature will be more greatly affected by the temperature of the air around it (I did some experiments in a video a few months ago about heat transfers to prove that this was the case). - The specific heat capacity of the probe will be different to the reptile; even if they had the same surface area:volume ratio and were exposed to the same radiation for an equal amount of time, one would warm up faster than the other. - The absorbance and emissivity of the reptile and the probe are not the same. 👍
@@JTBReptiles all of those are answered by "the reptile stays in the basking spot for as long as it needs to to get up to temperature" though. I use both non-probe based digital thermometer/hydrometers and infrared temp gun style thermometers. When I measure the surface temperature of, for example, my P. Vitticeps back after it's been basking using the temp gun, it approximately matches the thermometer I have near the basking spot though is, as expected, a little warmer.
@@abherbitter You are right in that a thermometer is an indicator of potential: if the thermometer (which is more liable to heat loss than the reptile) can get up to working body temperature, then a reptile basking will also be able to, but (as I was trying to point out in my last comment) that doesn't necessitate that the lizard is the same temperature as it says on the display. (I thought in your first comment you were trying to say that the reptile was necessarily the same temperature as the thermometer at the basking site, which I now realise you weren't.) Still, it doesn't mean that using the thermometer as you describe is the right way to go about things. Consider that in enclosure "A" you might need to use a 100W halogen lamp for the thermometer to read 40 degrees as a stable temperature. Imagine that in enclosure "B" you need to use a 50W halogen lamp to achieve the same thing. (Assume for the purpose of this discussion that both lamps are reflected to the same degree). This situation could be caused by enclosure "A" being situated in a colder room than enclosure "B" (and therefore the air temperature in enclosure "A" would be lower than that in "B"), by enclosure "A" being larger, by enclosure "A" being less well insulated (e.g. glass rather than wood), or by enclosure "A" having more ventilation. In both enclosures we have established that a reptile can get up to at least 40 if it basks for long enough, but that cannot be our only consideration. The intensity of radiation from the 100W lamp is twice that at any given distance as the radiation from the 50W lamp. Radiation doesn't just warm things up, it has all sorts of metabolic interactions, many of which we are only just beginning to recognise: the 100W lamp might be dangerously intense and the 50W lamp might not be intense enough, yet because you've chosen the lamp based on temperatures you would assume that everything was perfect. Think of the difference between UVi 5 and UVi 10: one you'd happily provide a bearded dragon with in an enclosure, the other you wouldn't dare to unless the enclosure was large enough to ensure escape. By using temperatures as the metric for deciding what lamps you need, you aren't considering the intensity of other wavelengths - namely, infrared and visible light. What we should be doing is setting everything up with a consideration of radiation first and foremost. As long as the air temperature in the enclosure is in the acceptable range (determined by looking at weather data), then given that we have reproduced sunlight conditions in the enclosure, the reptile WILL be able to thermoregulate as in nature and will also receive the appropriate doses of the different wavelengths. You could still use a thermometer at the warm end just as an indicator of the potential for the reptile to warm up, but (hopefully as I have made clear in this comment) the reading is neither something to influence lamp selection nor to control lamps by: again, it is an indicator; the value has no real meaning. It isn't the temperature of the reptile at any given moment in time, it isn't the temperature of an object, and it isn't the temperature of the air, it's just a temperature that we know the reptile can at least REACH if it basks for long enough. Hopefully I've made that clear!
Hi JTB, just dropped on your site by accident for the first time while researching. I'm a (very old) lapsed aquarist looking to return to the hobby and maybe include a Geko or something similar to my new pet keeping comeback. No offence my friend, but all this temperature business has had the effect of turning me right off - way way too complicated and way over my head. As you stated in your opening piece, there are many many varied opinions out there, though in fairness, from my research, the subject matter has not been probed in such depth as you have just done. This is a problem for me. IMHO, a hobby or parts of a hobby can be OVER ANALYSED to the point of putting off new entrants. I think I will just restart my interests with keeping and breeding isopods, crickets, roaches, and live fish food, most of which could be bartered at my local pet store (5 minutes away in my case), and get some fish tanks up and running again. Hope my comments are received in the spirit of which they are intended, not a put down but a constructive observation to give food for thought. Regards, Jim
I know where you are coming from, but consider my predicament. I could quite well think through all this stuff and keep it private between me and the small group of us really interested in all this, then just make step-by-step videos saying “put this here, do this like that”. This would be good for newcomers that just want to get going, but what I would say to do would be entirely contradictory to what everyone else says. Why would a newcomer listen to me when my directions would be so radically different to those given by everyone else? Without a proper, in-depth explanation, I’d just come off as a deranged preacher (maybe I do come off as a deranged preacher even with the explanation - one can only hope not). Furthermore, there’s a whole hobby of long-time keepers who would disagree with me - that is, until they heard the explanations. Even then some aren’t convinced, and sometimes rightly so: even after months in peer review the finished products can contain mistakes or omissions. (Sometimes there is a reason for the old way of doing things, and it takes someone to point it out for me to realise the significance this reason could have for the proposed new approach. I therefore welcome this sort of criticism, albeit in the right measure!) If I didn’t make any attempt at explanation at all, I’d just get mobbed into silence. With all that being said, I do intend on making step-by-step videos in the future, likely in the second half of this year. Before then, though, I need to finish my explanatory videos so that my case has been made. Hopefully you understand where I am coming from!
@@JTBReptiles Young man, thank you for taking on board my comments and taking the time to respond in a positive manner with lots of explanatory detail. - I appreciate it and definitely do not think you are deranged :-) - I might be though, according to my wife :-) I do understand where you are coming from, appreciate your enthusiasm, efforts, and look forward to viewing your step by step videos in the future. I will remain open to persuasion - way to go. Regards, Jim.
I'm new to the crested gecko community. I want to give it the best care I can so I do need videos like this with someone who does put alot of thought into it. He seems to genuinely care for his plants and animals so that's cool. You could get a shorter version with less complexities on another channel. But some of them don't really seem to have the well being of the animal in mind but rather only what enjoyment they as the owner can receive from the pet ..good care or not aside . my goal is to enjoy it but also hopefully give it an enriched life although in captivity.
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Thank you
@@nomangreybeard535 You're welcome, thanks for watching!
thank you for your knowledge and experience. i work at a petstore and every day i try to learn more about reptiles specifically to make sure my care is as up to date and accurate for the reptiles as possible.
You're very welcome!
That’s so important! So many people buy from pet stores and aren’t told the proper info! Thanks for trying to educate new reptile owners!! I’m sure that saves a lot of rehoming!!
I think the way you always explain the things you say helps people understand why they should be doing things differently. Instead of just saying "this is how it is so do this" which many creators do. It always leaves me questioning how they reached that conclusion? Like where do you find your info? What does it mean? Why does it benefit my reptile to do this? And so on. The fact that you always explain everything and that it actually makes sense from a logical standpoint is so helpful. Just wanted to say I really appreciate how much work you put into educating us.
Thank you very much! I came to those thoughts myself years ago, which is why I produce the style of content I do today. Everybody says with conviction that THEIR way of doing things is right, yet everybody has their own recommendations which go against those of other people: don’t feed snakes in the vivarium Vs. do feed snakes in the vivarium; don’t put dragons on sand Vs. do put dragons on sand; don’t cohabitate Vs. do cohabitate; use a temp gun Vs. use a probe... The list goes on. If nobody can give any better explanation than “I’ve been doing it for 10 years and haven’t had a problem”, how can we be certain that we’re doing the right thing?
@@JTBReptiles I wholeheartedly agree. These are questions that need to be asked and answered with facts not with opinions. If we hadn't learned to evolve past "this is how it's always been done" there are so many things we never would have known about and been able to do. I feel like people greatly underestimate how much reptiles, and animals in general, truly are capable of. There is still so much we don't know. It seems arrogant to assume we know everything and that "my way is the only way" when it comes to their care.
Bang on!
Literally just opened UA-cam to see if you'd uploaded.. Great timing! 😁
So glad you uploaded I am super excited pretty soon I am giving my Leo a 40 gallon bioactive tank
Glad you enjoyed, sounds like it'll be a decent setup!
@@JTBReptiles I definitely will 😃 thanks to you
Excellent video as always, Joe!
Thanks, Dillon!
Ooo you have Canada-specific links, bless your soul!
Also, your timing could not have been more perfect, I'm currently monitoring temperatures in a new enclosure for my snake before introducing her
Haha you're very welcome, thanks for watching!
Fantastic video and very well explained. Extremely logical thesis.
Looks like I'm on the right track for my Phelsuma Klemmeri enclosure. I have a small 35w halogen bulb on their basking spot running at 100% (with a thermostat, set up with the probe outside the tank so as if my bedroom gets to 26c it shuts off) and I control the temperature using PC fans. At the moment I have it on a timer, with the fan running constantly throughout the warmest 4 hours of the day and then for brief periods around that timespan. I would like to have a temperature controller set up for my fans, almost like a thermostatically actuated switching system but I am not sure if such a thing exists.
Nonetheless I look forward to your upcoming video and thank you for pushing the envelope with herping! 👍
Thanks very much! That sounds just about right. You definitely can get thermostats for fans, I think they sell them as "cooling thermostats". My videos on controlling temperatures will be out ~3 months from now as I want to make sure they are perfect before release, so hang tight!
Nice job. Well documented/argued and it makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks, glad you understood!
Great info! Your Chanel is highly underrated, and Char is so handsome! My adult male is just a beige with some oranges, but my baby’s parents were citrus and red! Can’t wait to see her colours as an adult! She’s gorgeous even at a few months old!
Thanks very much! It’s always great watching animals develop 🙂
Nicely explained!
Cheers! 😄
Thank you I learn some think new never in that way about air in the viv’s
Looking forward to the next video about controlling temps. I have recently increased my overall temps a few degrees higher in my newest self built vivarium and have noticed an increase in my Leopard Geckos activity levels.
The next videos in this particular series won’t be out for a few months yet, unfortunately - with summer exams rapidly approaching, I haven’t got the time to deal with them! (I have three videos in the pipeline, but they’re all on separate topics.) Sorry about that!
Thanks for watching 😁
@@JTBReptiles Hey no problem I am a patient person. I enjoy your videos as you have a fresh perspective and your information aligns with my feeling and experience. I watch a lot of videos to try and glean as much information as possible to try and give my beasties the best life conditions I can. Good luck in the exams!
@@starbyray7828 Thanks very much!
Another excellent video. Thanks for the information and in depth explanation. JTB!!!!
Glad you think so! Thanks for watching 😄
Thank you for another logical, well thought out learning experience. My geckos and I thank you.
Well explained. Thanks for breaking it down for us.
You’re welcome!
I'm having trouble with my halogen on the dimming setting using a herpstat thermostat. When in this setting the lamp flickers on and off throughout the day but it does it quite alot in the morning when it's getting to the set temperature. It was recommended to me to put the probe right underneath the reflector in the middle where the beam of light is strongest. However I still have the same problem. This morning it was very apparent that my corn snake was annoyed at the least by this because she moved from out in the open to going into her humid cave.
I'm thinking about replacing it for a deep heat projector and installing one of those smart led light bulbs and programming it to dim during Dusk and dawn, dont know how it'll work out but hopefully it does.
Brilliant video mate, thank you for the time and effort that you put into all of these videos. I for one certainly appreciate it and I know many others do too! :)
Thanks very much, Harry! Glad you enjoyed!
Lets see if I got it right before watching. I have a probe on the basking spot, a digital without a probe on the cool end and a gun to take temps all over. All 3 tanks have their own gun so no varied differences between the 3 if used on all different tanks and guns( if you understand what I am trying to say).
Great video Joe, well done 👍
Thank you!
I think a great lesson to learn from this is simply most of our enclosures just aren't big enough?! I've been running tests with different wattage lamps and a dhp on my latest 6x3x2.5 (width, height, depth) enclosure and can keep a 100w halogen on full almost all the time using a dimmer thermostat as an overheating precaution.
This is obviously species specific and completely reliant on factors like ambient room temperature.
I can't see how this theory can be used on small vivariums safely without a computer controlled system. Excellent video and leaves a lot to think about!
The question is, what wattage tungsten halogen lamp are we to choose? We shouldn’t be choosing it on the basis of temperature, which is only a product of its action: we should be choosing it by direct selection of its output. So, instead of seeing how warm it gets when the lamp is left on (which is a product not just of the lamp but the temperature of the room, the ventilation of the vivarium, the insulation of the vivarium, and so on), we consider its output directly. We already do this with UV lamps when we consider the UV index: soon enough we will be doing something very similar with near infrared and, indeed, for visible light which is yet another consideration.
Only AFTER we have got the radiation right do we start thinking about temperature control, which should be achieved without altering the “sunlight” we have established.
You are right though... The bigger the viv, the easier this gets.
Thanks for watching!
@@JTBReptiles I look forward to seeing how we can optimise how to provide natural radiation!
Until then, all I can think of doing is not having a lamp barely lit in a small vivarium because after a few seconds the enclosure has reached the temperature at which a stat has been set to, which is a great lesson your video teaches!
Give it a few months and the pieces of the jigsaw could well have been fitted together. Watch this space!
I was really excited you used Alice Springs as an example and thought you were going to say Morelia bredli as that’s where they are found, but you had to go the Bearded Dragon route!
Hahaha of course I did 😜 Thanks for watching!
What is the species of the green lizard in this video?
The lacertid is a western green lizard, Lacerta bilineata. The other green lizards in the video are lined day geckos, Phelsuma lineata bombetokensis (although I am guessing you aren’t referring to these!).
Amazing video. I have learnt alot from your knowledge.
Thanks, great to hear it! 😁
I'm a tad confused lol Firstly great and informative video but I just need clarification on some points. When you say 35 degrees (Beardies) are talking about the ambient temp of the hot end? Also where is your thermostat placed? Or where would you recommend it be placed?
The point I was getting at when talking about the air temperature (i.e. the ambient temperature) is that it is the same (pretty much) everywhere in the enclosure: whether at the basking site or elsewhere, the air will be the same temperature. (To this end, there is no "hot end" or "cool end" of an enclosure - this is why I say "basking site" and "shaded area(s)".) The reason your probe thermometer reads a higher temperature at the basking site is not because the air is warmer there but because the probe is absorbing more radiation from the lamps. (On a sunny day, try stepping into the shadow of a tree or other large object, then step back out into the sun. You feel warmer in the sun, but clearly the air cannot sustain a different temperature over such a small horizontal distance!)
Therefore, the only way of measuring the ambient temperature in the enclosure (and again, there is only _one_ ambient temperature for the whole enclosure, as far as need concerns us) is to ensure that the probe is in the shade. It must also not be in contact with any objects to ensure no conduction between it and them.
Remember that the specific value of the air temperature does not matter: as long as it's not so high or low as to be uncomfortable for the reptile AND you are properly replicating sunlight (critically for this purpose, replicating visible light and near infrared, because together these fractions of sunlight are primarily responsible for warming things up), the reptile will be able to thermoregulate as it would in nature. Think about it - the air temperature can vary by quite a significant degree but so long as there's sunlight, a herp will be able to thermoregulate just fine. How else can African Sulcata tortoises be kept outdoors for most of the year in British zoos?
So, given the above, all we need to do is replicate sunlight and stop the air in the enclosure getting so warm or so cold that it isn't comfortable for the reptile. We must also ensure that surfaces aren't uncomfortably hot or cold, but again, their specific temperatures do not matter.
Replicating sunlight I have spoken about in many videos before and will do so again in the future. We are close - quite close, I would say - to having a way of determining the intensity of NIR; once we have it and we settle on a method for determining the intensity of visible light, we will be quite good at replicating sunlight indeed. Again, it is ESSENTIAL that sunlight is replicated PROPERLY for thermoregulation. Maintaining air and surface temperatures I haven't spoken about yet - all that stuff about thermostats I am still to address. Videos detailing this will be out in the summer, so hang tight! I don't want to try and explain it all here; the stuff I'd say needs peer reviewing before it's shared publicly.
Q = emissivity * SB constant * (Tsolid^4 - Tair^4) . Once one understands this equation, one knows how to place probes and the difference between radiation and temperature
That's the key bit: "understands". I find with equations most people don't realise that there's an _understanding_ part, they just learn the symbols and know how to pop the numbers into a calculator. That's how we got taught in school, anyway. When it comes down to it, pretty much all equations are simplified expressions of things that could be explained qualitatively, so qualitative explanation is what I aim for in these videos as hopefully that's what people will understand.
Does this “pretty much the same air temperature everywhere throughout the enclosure” include directly under or few inches below the basking lamp itself???
I’m trying to make sure that it’s not too high of an air temperature right under the basking lamps themselves and the readings are higher than what’s safe (95 degrees f in this case) but all my basking surface and air are good and the rest of the enclosure air temperatures are good.
My snake will be able to access the area directly under the lamps while she is basking, so I’m just trying to make sure that it’s safe even though the readings are over the allowed 95°f… it’s be safe since the rest of the air at the top/ceiling level of the cool side in shade is reading below that… this is the actual number I need to trust and refer to?
Hello, I purchased a uromastyx. The temperature inside the enclosure is not going past 90°F. I have a 150 basking bulb, a heating mat and a 10.0 uvb bulb. What would u recommend to increase his temperature. ( I have a 35-40 gallon enclosure and my heating mat is working).
Have a look at this video for lighting (in the video I showcase my western green lizards, but the lighting setup used would work well for a uromastyx): ua-cam.com/video/UEcm0YwfAIg/v-deo.html
Remember, it is not the temperature which matters so much as the radiation. So long as your lighting is spot on - so linear UV lamp to offer UV indices about 6 at the basking zone falling to 0 in the shade, high lux in the tens of thousands at the basking site (offered with a good spot LED or metal halide), and a comfortable intensity of NIR; I explain all this in the linked video, above - then as long as the temps aren't extreme (i.e. too hot or too cold), the lizard will be able to thermoregulate as it would in nature.
Really good video! I've experimented with digital thermometers before, placing them around the enclosure and as you say, the only time their reading increases is when they're near a lamp. I've also always been dubious about surface temperatures.
Thanks for sharing your findings!
It seems like your assuming the tank is a closed system which it isn't. In a closed system it will achieve equilibrium. In this case we add heat on one side while heat is lost to ambient temp of the room on the other side.
Appearances can be deceiving 😉
I have considered this, of course I have. If room temp is (say for the sake of argument) 20 degrees C and the air leaving the enclosure is (say) 24 degrees C, then there must be SOME gradient of air temperature somewhere between the inside of the enclosure and out. The question is where: is it across the whole enclosure, linear between basking site and shaded area, or is it something different? It is not all too difficult to find out: all you need to do is use a heating element which does NOT offer significant radiation (i.e. warms the air directly), as then you can dangle your probe anywhere in the enclosure and it will be able to equilibrate in temperature with adjacent air. Doing exactly this (using a ceramic heat emitter which, as you know, doesn’t offer much radiation) shows that the air temperature gradient is small from one end of the enclosure to another.
I only ever used ceramic heat emitters for years, and this was something I noticed very early on: in a 2’ viv, there was no air temperature gradient; in a 4’ viv, the gradient was 2 degrees; in a 5’ viv insulated at the end near the ceramic heat emitter but NOT at the opposite end [therefore favouring temperature gradient buildup] the gradient was still only 5 degrees C. (These measurements were all taken in wooden vivaria: in glass vivaria we would expect the gradients to be even smaller if not nonexistent.) These values are all well within the scope of an “acceptable temperature range” as determined using the method detailed in the video (i.e. using weather data); they are not the 20 degrees placing a probe under an incandescent lamp versus in the shade would have you think. Therefore, so long as the cool end air is a few degrees from the maximum temperature we have deemed suitable, we can expect the warm end air to be in the suitable range, also. I would therefore say that the air temperature gradient in a vivarium is not “significant”.
The question then becomes, why are the air temperature gradients like this? I believe that the answer to this is that the diffusion of air around the inside of the vivarium must be faster than the transfer of air between the inside and outside of the enclosure. This stands to reason, given the relatively small area of vents. Perhaps if we were to have a short enclosure with a full mesh top and radiation directed at one end only, a more significant air temperature gradient could be maintained - in this case, objects below the radiation source would warm the air around them, and this warm air would go straight upwards and through the mesh rather than moving horizontally towards the other end of the enclosure.
With all that being said, it must be stressed that I purposefully omit certain things from videos. This upload had its first version made in January: the version you’ve watched is actually the third. In all that time, me and the peer review team were doing all manner of experiments to test the validity of what I’ve said. The first edition of this video was an extra 5 minutes long and talked about thermostats as well as giving a brief overview of how we can go about controlling air temperatures. The problem is, too much in one go makes it too complicated. With each video a decision needs to be made about what makes the cut and what doesn’t: enough needs to be said to cover the obvious questions and explain the premise, but much beyond that and an already niche video is made unaccessible to virtually everybody.
To summarise: in a practical sense it is very difficult to measure the air temperature at the basking site using a probe as it will be heated through radiation and thus cannot equilibrate in temperature with the air around it. However, we can expect that the temperature of the air measured at the shaded part of the enclosure (which IS easy to do) won’t be significantly far off from that at the basking site. (In the video, I think I summarised this as “the air temperature will be pretty much the same everywhere”, or words to that effect.) Therefore, just looking at the shaded portion air temperature as though it is the air temperature across the whole vivarium is a suitable approach.
Are going to do a 2022 updated video?
Got a video planned. Not sure when it will be out but should be worth the wait
Super excited!!
I'm of the mind set if the basking spot is good, the rest should be good as long as you have the correct size enclosures.
Always interesting. But what about an ideal temperature where the animal doesn't need to warm up or cool down? Say, out in nature, it's a cloudy, warm day. Critters are neither basking, nor are they hiding, but just out and about doing their thing. Is it healthier for them to have to seek these extremes of warming and cooling? Not sure if that makes sense, but there ya go.
Our aim is not to establish extremes of warm and cool: we replicate what is a natural air temperature for a species, replicate sunlight, and let them thermoregulate as they choose. When it is not sunny, most species don't come out: frogs in my garden don't croak unless it's a sunny day; friends who have lizards in outdoor enclosures don't see them when it's overcast. Rarely is the air temperature high enough on a cloudy day for herps to become active. Many herps have a preferred body temperature between 35 and 40 degrees C; 35 to 40 degree air with no sunlight doesn't come about often!
With that being said, it is certainly possible to engineer this unnatural situation using a ceramic heat emitter as a standalone device, but then the animal won't be able to move to and from light and shade in order to thermoregulate as it has evolved to, and it won't receive the benefits of exposure to radiation which aren't just heating - tissue repair, D3 synthesis, and so on. Of course, if we are keeping the enclosure in the natural temperature range, then even thermal conformers which may appear not to interact with a lighting rig (they will do, just not so obviously) must necessarily be able to reach their active body temperatures without any further special treatment (one must presume that thermal conformers have lower average body temperatures than other species).
Hope that answers your question!
@@JTBReptiles Perhaps using the word "extreme" was a mistake, but rather the upper and lower ranges of comfort. If reptiles can be too cold and too warm, then there must be a temp in the middle that feels just right. In the wild, critters are exposed to some pretty wild fluctuations. Where I live, frost is not unheard of even in the summer. It can be 70's during the day and 30's at night (Fahrenheit). There are however, those few days that are cloudy and in the 70's and snakes, frogs, and toads are out and about. Frogs where I live don't generally say much during daylight hours, just evenings and early mornings before the sun comes up. As captives, we shelter them from predators, floods, parasites and whatnot, so should they be sheltered from temperature fluctuations as well? Or are they healthier when exposed to those changes. Or perhaps the activity of thermoregulation is just another form of enrichment. Without the need to thermoregulate, maybe they would just get fat and lazy like ball pythons in tubs.
@@jimthomas6127 There's a lot of variables. Lets say we use this perfect (read preferred) body temperature of a Burmese python, which is around 29/30C, and feed the snake a large meal. The meal will raise the snakes metabolic rate and therefore its body temperature, in order for the snake to maintain 29C body temperature, it likely has to move to a place that's around 27C to compensate for the raise in body temperature
You've hit the part of the nail on the head towards the end of that paragraph: thermoregulation can, I suppose, be considered enrichment. As I said in the video, you COULD warm the air in the enclosure such that it is an optimal temperature for the reptiles and offer none of the sun's wavelengths - that's what people have done for years by heating rooms and using ceramic het emitters. But it isn't natural that a herp should spend its entire life just at a comfortable temperature. The majority of them, the majority of the time, spend their days shuttling to and from light and shade. You can get away with just warming the air when keeping species which interact relatively little with sunlight (crepuscular and nocturnal species, namely), but if you try it with diurnal species, their suffering will be immediately obvious (take bearded dragons as an example). This leads on to the point that radiation doesn't just warm things up: it has other metabolic interactions. Even if the air temperature is conducive to activity, there will be no tissue repair, no D3 synthesis, no visible light stimulation, no sensing UVA... In effect, by going down the radiation route rather than warming the air, we are giving our herps the chance to thermoregulate as they would _most_ of the time in nature and allowing them to receive the benefits that radiation offers besides just warmth.
There's a reason that people who keep reptiles and amphibians outdoors select a sunny spot for the enclosure and don't just put it in the shade!
@@JTBReptiles I'm new to snake keeping. I've been at it for less than a year, so I question everything. From day one I've thought the whole heat mat/ belly heat thing was a bit unnatural so I had to find a rational explanation for this approach, the explanation of course being that many snakes come out after the sun goes down to absorb radiant heat from rocks and pavement. In that regard, belly heat is not entirely unnatural as some would say. Also, as strictly an observation, I don't see snakes come out first thing in the morning to bask, but they appear to wait until the ground or surrounding rocks have warmed which would also indicate that they are using radiant heat. maybe the direct heating from the sun is just a byproduct. I know it sounds like I am arguing for heat mats but I'm really not. My preference at this point is halogen bulb above rock, with a gradual cool down during the night.
New sub, great video, thank you!
Awesome, you’re welcome!
Live plants do aspirate though. Lowering temp in shade
The questions remain, how big is the temperature difference, how do the temperatures compare with what weather stations report, and is this actually relevant to what we're doing in vivaria? Remember that we're only aiming for ball-park figures: not too hot, not too cold, but anything in the middle. The herps can sort themselves from there, provided we've replicated sunlight accurately.
@@JTBReptiles that is true. Very minimal in vivarium. If any. Good show
Great video! So going by what you said, which makes perfect sense btw, are you adjusting the temperature (and therefore the radiation level accordingly) seasonally either up or down? Is there a benefit for this seasonal change? Doing my research before buying a Bearded dragon and this topic is fascinating. Thanks!
Yes, the air temperature is controlled seasonally to match weather data, and radiation is changed by having the lamps coming on for less time during the summer. Ideally I'd like to have it so that the peak intensity of each wavelength was less during the winter (which isn't achieved just by having shorter photoperiods), but this isn't so simple to accomplish without using different lamps.
What a brilliant video and it all makes perfect sense! How can the air temperature outside be different only a few feet away of course it isn't, it is radiation! I tend to have a temperature probe at the hot end and the cool end, but do I really need one at the hot end anymore? Monitoring the temps in a shaded area surely makes more sense? If we use a corn snake for example the temperatures vary from region to region and looking at the very useful information from Snakes N Ladders Alabama peaks at over 30 and Florida into the mid 30's during summer months for day and low 20's for night. Therefore could we happily set a day temperature from a probe reading at the cooler end to read happily in the higher 20's, say 27/28? I have been trying to keep the cool end at say 24 and the hot end at 27 but possibly could I increase these temps? The next part is how does your thermostat probe then fit into all of this as well! Too many questions and fried brain now :-)
Thank goodness it made sense, I’ve been worrying for months whether this video would just be overcomplicated mush to people so that’s great to hear!
Yes, you’re bang on. The apparent warm end/cool end temp difference is because of the lamps illuminating the thermometer, not major differences in the temperature of the air in a few horizontal feet of space! I would try if possible to keep the air temperature (as measured with the probe dangled free in the shade) at the lower end of the acceptable range. I will be talking more in a few months about exactly why this is the case and how you can pull it off (using fans - I use the Lucky Reptile fans). In peak summer for a corn snake I’d aim at 20-25. Always remember that too hot is more dangerous than too cold, because a reptile can always bask more to warm up, but in a box it can only do so much to cool down.
Thanks for watching!
@@JTBReptiles Understood aim for the lower end so the animal has a choice to warm up rather than not being able to cool down. I fitted some lucky reptile fans on our Corn enclosure mainly for humidity purposes to aid air flow to reduce during day and then to let it rise overnight. I have one blowing in at the cool end and the drawing air out of the hot end. Also run just one on the hognose to draw out the air from the hot end. Look forward to how you are using the fans in the coming videos :-)
Incredible video!
Thank you! 😁
Great video, nicely said. 😁👏🏻
Thanks, Nathan!
@@JTBReptiles No problem at all. Your welcome. 😁
Is the shadedweller 7% by acadia good for a ball python? The basking spot is 13.5 inches away from the bulb
Assuming that there is no mesh between the lamp and the snake, that sounds just about right 🙂
@@JTBReptiles There would be a mositoqo screen mesh that it would sit on.
Does the heat "temp" not have a use for digestion
I'm sticking to my ackie setup lol. Radiant heat panel fixed to a herpstat thermostat on the cool end at a continuous 70f and on the hot end a bulb with a hot spot of 145f. Two digital hydro thermometers at the cool and hot ends centralized at ground level (not near bulb on hot end I check that daily with a temp gun. I give over 20 ground level hide spots with multiple elevated points with 6 to 9 inches of mixed substrate. This gives the animal multiple choices with some hide spots hitting 99% humidity ect. He's healthy active and shedding well so something is right. O also have a 22 uvb that he's got a angled basking log running underneath.
Do you only have a radiant heat panel? No incandescent lamps, no metal halide or spot LED?
There is much more to radiation than just warmth. Just as you cannot induce cutaneous D3 synthesis without proper UVB lighting, you cannot induce the metabolic effects of NIR and visible light without providing them in the right intensities.
See here: ua-cam.com/video/UEcm0YwfAIg/v-deo.html ...and here: ua-cam.com/video/dUJZ04sqhxk/v-deo.html ...for more on this.
@@JTBReptiles he's got a Arcadia uvb and I had a top states dwarf monitor breeder have a look over my current set up and his only question was the ventilation and that I had to much at the time.
@@JTBReptiles o and of course the outdoor halogen spot for his basking spot I'd be worried if my radiant heat panel hit 145 lol I'd get the fire extinguisher out on that case
“Too much ventilation”? I’d like to know how an enclosure can be too well-ventilated considering that - unless you have some seriously powerful fans - the air flow through the enclosure will be nothing compared to even a light breeze in nature.
How is that 145 Fahrenheit being measured? If that is the genuine air temperature (measured with a probe in the shade, as described in the video) the lizard would be dead, so it cannot be that. If it is the surface temperature of a stone, the lizard will certainly avoid settling on it when it has gotten that hot. Forgive my bluntness, but whoever is recommending that cannot understand what they are measuring or the potential for damage such practice involves. I predict that you are likely either using a probe thermometer sat under the lamps or you are measuring a surface temperature with a gun; if that surface is a stone the lizard will rarely sit on it - if it is a piece of wood, though, it may show no particular aversion of it.
Here is some additional food for thought. The intensity of infrared A on a clear day near the equator is about 300W/m^2. Offer significantly less than this and the metabolic implications are lost; significantly more and there is a real risk of overexposure. A similar sentence can be composed for visible light. Temperatures are affected not just by radiation but by the ability of the vivarium to lose heat; thus if you choose your lamps based on temperatures, your choice will be heavily influenced by factors other than the intensity of radiation you are offering. How can you know that conditions are optimal? If the “top US breeder” has to use a 100W halogen lamp to get his temps up and you need to use a 70W lamp (for example), which of you is offering the correct IRA intensity? Are either of you? And what about visible light - without a dedicated source, for a diurnal heliocentric species like a monitor you will definitely be under-providing it.
It is not hard to get reptiles to breed, for the most part. After perhaps the desires to eat, drink, run from predators, and (how very topical) move for thermoregulatory purposes, the desire to breed is one of the strongest urges of any animal. You can keep a reptile warm enough for activity with no great difficulty, and often doing this is all that is required to keep them alive and apparently well to the point that they will breed reliably, but it does not mean that everything is being done perfectly.
@@JTBReptiles because monitors need that huge amount of humidity with insanely high basking spot so in his explanation you need a limited ventilation otherwise you just dry out the vivarium with such hot heat sources inside. This man has been producing top ender ackies , kimbs, kings and black heads and more for decades so I go by his wisdom and success of producing amazing animals.
Any advice on dosages for Arcadia Shed Support and Earth Pro A for snakes
I must be shadow banned
Or just impatient 🙃
I can’t recommend anything about use of supplements beyond following manufacturer’s guidelines. Personally I do not believe that enough research has been done to be certain of the efficacy of any supplements - my approach is to use lots of different supplements in rotation (I use 6 different ones); this with a varied diet I hope will give my reptiles ample opportunity to take from their diets what the require. We could do with more studies in this area.
I'm not following your points about thermometers being warmer or cooler based on position relative to the basking bulb as opposed to sensing an air gradient.
It doesn't matter what a thermometer under a basking bulb or on the cool end gives a specific temperature reading. We can know an animal at the same location would experience the same temperature.
Whatever the temperature of the thermometer or it's probe is, the captive reptile would also be, which is what we care about.
I know where you're coming from, but you are incorrect for a number of reasons.
- The probe is permanently at one location whereas the reptile moves around. (If you leave something in the sun all day, then leaving that same something in the sun for twenty minutes won't result in its being the same temperature!)
- The probe has a different surface area:volume ratio to the reptile (by an enormous margin) and therefore its temperature will be more greatly affected by the temperature of the air around it (I did some experiments in a video a few months ago about heat transfers to prove that this was the case).
- The specific heat capacity of the probe will be different to the reptile; even if they had the same surface area:volume ratio and were exposed to the same radiation for an equal amount of time, one would warm up faster than the other.
- The absorbance and emissivity of the reptile and the probe are not the same.
👍
@@JTBReptiles all of those are answered by "the reptile stays in the basking spot for as long as it needs to to get up to temperature" though.
I use both non-probe based digital thermometer/hydrometers and infrared temp gun style thermometers. When I measure the surface temperature of, for example, my P. Vitticeps back after it's been basking using the temp gun, it approximately matches the thermometer I have near the basking spot though is, as expected, a little warmer.
@@abherbitter You are right in that a thermometer is an indicator of potential: if the thermometer (which is more liable to heat loss than the reptile) can get up to working body temperature, then a reptile basking will also be able to, but (as I was trying to point out in my last comment) that doesn't necessitate that the lizard is the same temperature as it says on the display. (I thought in your first comment you were trying to say that the reptile was necessarily the same temperature as the thermometer at the basking site, which I now realise you weren't.)
Still, it doesn't mean that using the thermometer as you describe is the right way to go about things.
Consider that in enclosure "A" you might need to use a 100W halogen lamp for the thermometer to read 40 degrees as a stable temperature. Imagine that in enclosure "B" you need to use a 50W halogen lamp to achieve the same thing. (Assume for the purpose of this discussion that both lamps are reflected to the same degree). This situation could be caused by enclosure "A" being situated in a colder room than enclosure "B" (and therefore the air temperature in enclosure "A" would be lower than that in "B"), by enclosure "A" being larger, by enclosure "A" being less well insulated (e.g. glass rather than wood), or by enclosure "A" having more ventilation. In both enclosures we have established that a reptile can get up to at least 40 if it basks for long enough, but that cannot be our only consideration. The intensity of radiation from the 100W lamp is twice that at any given distance as the radiation from the 50W lamp. Radiation doesn't just warm things up, it has all sorts of metabolic interactions, many of which we are only just beginning to recognise: the 100W lamp might be dangerously intense and the 50W lamp might not be intense enough, yet because you've chosen the lamp based on temperatures you would assume that everything was perfect.
Think of the difference between UVi 5 and UVi 10: one you'd happily provide a bearded dragon with in an enclosure, the other you wouldn't dare to unless the enclosure was large enough to ensure escape. By using temperatures as the metric for deciding what lamps you need, you aren't considering the intensity of other wavelengths - namely, infrared and visible light.
What we should be doing is setting everything up with a consideration of radiation first and foremost. As long as the air temperature in the enclosure is in the acceptable range (determined by looking at weather data), then given that we have reproduced sunlight conditions in the enclosure, the reptile WILL be able to thermoregulate as in nature and will also receive the appropriate doses of the different wavelengths. You could still use a thermometer at the warm end just as an indicator of the potential for the reptile to warm up, but (hopefully as I have made clear in this comment) the reading is neither something to influence lamp selection nor to control lamps by: again, it is an indicator; the value has no real meaning. It isn't the temperature of the reptile at any given moment in time, it isn't the temperature of an object, and it isn't the temperature of the air, it's just a temperature that we know the reptile can at least REACH if it basks for long enough.
Hopefully I've made that clear!
@@JTBReptiles thank you for taking the time to respond so thoroughly 🙂
No problem at all! The comments are just as important as the videos themselves so I can’t be slacking!
Hi JTB, just dropped on your site by accident for the first time while researching. I'm a (very old) lapsed aquarist looking to return to the hobby and maybe include a Geko or something similar to my new pet keeping comeback.
No offence my friend, but all this temperature business has had the effect of turning me right off - way way too complicated and way over my head.
As you stated in your opening piece, there are many many varied opinions out there, though in fairness, from my research, the subject matter has not been probed in such depth as you have just done.
This is a problem for me. IMHO, a hobby or parts of a hobby can be OVER ANALYSED to the point of putting off new entrants.
I think I will just restart my interests with keeping and breeding isopods, crickets, roaches, and live fish food, most of which could be bartered at my local pet store (5 minutes away in my case), and get some fish tanks up and running again.
Hope my comments are received in the spirit of which they are intended, not a put down but a constructive observation to give food for thought. Regards, Jim
I know where you are coming from, but consider my predicament. I could quite well think through all this stuff and keep it private between me and the small group of us really interested in all this, then just make step-by-step videos saying “put this here, do this like that”. This would be good for newcomers that just want to get going, but what I would say to do would be entirely contradictory to what everyone else says. Why would a newcomer listen to me when my directions would be so radically different to those given by everyone else? Without a proper, in-depth explanation, I’d just come off as a deranged preacher (maybe I do come off as a deranged preacher even with the explanation - one can only hope not).
Furthermore, there’s a whole hobby of long-time keepers who would disagree with me - that is, until they heard the explanations. Even then some aren’t convinced, and sometimes rightly so: even after months in peer review the finished products can contain mistakes or omissions. (Sometimes there is a reason for the old way of doing things, and it takes someone to point it out for me to realise the significance this reason could have for the proposed new approach. I therefore welcome this sort of criticism, albeit in the right measure!) If I didn’t make any attempt at explanation at all, I’d just get mobbed into silence.
With all that being said, I do intend on making step-by-step videos in the future, likely in the second half of this year. Before then, though, I need to finish my explanatory videos so that my case has been made.
Hopefully you understand where I am coming from!
@@JTBReptiles Young man, thank you for taking on board my comments and taking the time to respond in a positive manner with lots of explanatory detail. - I appreciate it and definitely do not think you are deranged :-) - I might be though, according to my wife :-)
I do understand where you are coming from, appreciate your enthusiasm, efforts, and look forward to viewing your step by step videos in the future. I will remain open to persuasion - way to go. Regards, Jim.
I'm new to the crested gecko community. I want to give it the best care I can so I do need videos like this with someone who does put alot of thought into it. He seems to genuinely care for his plants and animals so that's cool. You could get a shorter version with less complexities on another channel. But some of them don't really seem to have the well being of the animal in mind but rather only what enjoyment they as the owner can receive from the pet ..good care or not aside . my goal is to enjoy it but also hopefully give it an enriched life although in captivity.
810 he agrees with you lol