Thank you Anton Van Zanten ( the engineer at bosch ) for inventing this and many other electronic safety systems for cars. You have prevented thousands of tragedies.
I remember one time when I had fun in snow with the ESP disabled, then I press the button to enable it and go away from the spot. I then tried to handbrake turn again, what a surprise when the ESP kicked in on the left front wheel :D
Actually gives me more peace of mind after seeing this. Got my GTI in march after a dry winter, but haven't driven a FWD Car in the snow probably since 2001.
One of the most important safety features indeed. Many fatal car crashes are due to fishtailing and losing control on a highway with oncoming traffic that ESC/ESP/VSC can prevent.
I can personally attest to this. In our 2009 Jetta Wagon, driving on snowy roads, I've entered into a skid two or three times. I felt the back of the car spin out. I could feel ABS applied to the left front wheel. Incredible, it just kept me on the road.
Heyyy that's my car ! the Red New Beetle ! :-) ... 14 years old and I'm still loving it ... And YES, ESP saved me 2 or 3 times from serious problems, so IT IS useful, totally ! People who say it is useless never drive on snowy weather ...
Exactly. When we have snow here in Canada, we have a lot of it. Have you ever noticed that most of drivers that passes you under risky conditions have 4x4's or AWD. Eventually, a few moments later, they're in the "ditch"
1:54 - "If, while driving, the brake is applied to the rear wheel on the right hand side, it creates moment about the vertical axis of the vehicle. The tractor describes a right hand curve." What a beautifully constructed sentence. You certainly wouldn't hear anything remotely as precise these days. If this were a modern TV clip, no doubt it would be something like: "The special brakes make the tractor turn."
ESP gives the car a different handling feel than how you expect the car to react. This is something I had to get used to, but it's a great feature to have when you really need it.
@Glasskis: If the wheels spin, you don't accelerate that much (if at all). ESP does not slow down acceleration, except when you loose traction like in slippery conditions. Also, you can simply turn it off by pressing a button.
In such cases there is 'emergency brake assist' which detects how hard you hit the brake pedal and if it detect and emergency application.. adds full pressure to the system to get maximum braking (after all, hydraulic brakes still rely on human pedal force input)
Most cars have Vacuum boosters (which run off the engine manifold pressure) between the pedal and the hydraulic master cylinder but it's still multiplying human force. The most common departure from this is brake-by-wire, often found in hybrids with blended regeneration and friction brakes where pedal back pressure is faked with a spring.
ESP and ASR are two things ask together. My brothers Saab had ESP and it had balanced weights in the doors to tell if the car went into a slide. ASR is just automatic skid reduction, like traction control it kills power from the engine to stop the front tires from slipping
I agree with you, some drivers even know that the car will start to slide before it actually does so they are prepared to counter way before ESP kicks in.
FWD cars still have this problem!! Especially in snowy and slick conditions! experienced it many times and did 2 360s on a highway at highway speed! Happy no one was in other lane or could have been dead. Had ESC in turboed 300 horses cobalt and it saved my butt when it was snowy as well when I turned in too fast. Should be mandatory on all cars, but love being able to turn it off and have fun once in a while too.
First introduced in 1995 On the Mercedes S600 and the Toyota Crown Majesta 1995. They were supplied by Bosch who invented the system. in 1999 Mercedes committed to fitting it to every vehicle it made. VAG also started fitting on the vast majority of their cars. Inlucding the MK4 Golf featured in this video as they got them in the early 2000s. For awhile ESP was a premium safety feature that was almost exclusive to German cars as Bosch readily supplied German cars easily.
For the life of me I just can't figure out why some decide to go against the ESC just because they think they have all the skills(or egos) they need to control their vehicles; however as demonstrated the car will probably need to give you three more brake pedals(one for each wheel) to control the vehicle the same way ESP can.
I bought a 2000 vw beetle 1.8t 4motion edition, v6 tsi engine, vw only made 400 of the 4motion editions and i love it. Drives on ice and snow like a tank! 6 speed manual tran with ESP,ABS, and of course all wheel drive. Never had to do an abrupt swerve like that but 4motion helps out a ton.
1.8t 4motion v6 ??????? 1.8t is a 4 inline engine. V6 is the VR6 and a 3.2 l engine no turbo. 4motion??? Rsi special edition is the one known but again 4motion and the VR6 3.2L engine and only 250 cars were ever built
ESP is very useful for most drivers driving front wheel drive car's. However, with my rear wheel drive Mercedes CLK, I often can't reach nor leave my home safely if the road is snow or ice covered, unless I deactivate ESP (As opposed to wy wifes Fiat, which works brill on any surface). If you are aware of- and used to oversteering, rwd cars react rather strange and unpredictable with ESP. E.g. it takes longer for them to turn into curves as if they where understeering. Once the ECU is done keeping you in a sraight line, it bites into the curve. This then sends you into a too narrow turning circle, because you are likely to have turned the wheel a bit too far by that time. Merc decided to make the ESP only semi deactivatable so i've altered the switch/wiring to cut the power for the ABS at the same.
+v8guggi I drive a 2007 Ford Focus 1.6 VCT-TI. ESP is slow to react. In my case i correct my steering input much faster than the ESP so the ESP does a correction over my correction resulting in a hilarious overcorection. It is so ridiculus that i have to turn it off when i drive in snow or heavy rain, defeating its purpose in the first place. It also nearly killed me 3 times. In my experience ESP can only help novice drivers who tent to freeze up, lock brakes and aplly full steering input with no correction as you see in US when they crash every winter like there is no tomorow.
yes you are right. i for example did play a lot of racing games (like dirt 3) and this really improves your ability to countersteer( i dont expect you to belief that but its true) i did also drive a lot with a go kart. and i recommend this for many people who feel unsafe while driving a car because the physics are quiet similar and you can really practise to control your car. but i think that ESP is still the faster and safer way to control the car especially if there are others driving around.
If you try to drift in the snow on a open slippery parkinglot you can feel and see how good it works. I tried to drift with my MB Sprinter, it drifts a little bit when i step on the gas but when i push it to far the ESP kicks in and takes it back. There was no way to spin all around. it works great
TBF mate, go take a look at how Tiff Needel managed on snow/ice with and without ESP... even when he knew what to expect an experienced racing driver couldn't save the slide. It's the ESP's ability to brake individual wheels that we can never do that really makes the difference... I'm all for tail out fun, but for outright safety on the roads I really prefer ESP + ABS + Winter Tyres when the weather gets white - each to their own :)
as an example for your point, my only ever crash was 6 months after i passed my test and almost exactly the same instance as the first slip in the mk4 golf. i fishtailed back and forth 3-4 times ALMOST controlled it.... and ended in someones front room.... New car and having a claim against my insurance for 14 grand and i think ESP is seriously worth while :L
Yes, that is correct. The ESP actually use the ABS sensors in addition to other sensors like wheel speed differentials. Some systems also have sensors that can tell if the vehicle has an angle on the road, and sensors that tell abnormal coarse changes. This stuff gets better and better every year. There are also cars that notice abnormal driving patterns, and notice you are sleeping. This is not called ESP though, but it is derived from it.
I used to think so until I wrecked my Jaguar XJ Sport going 65mph trying to avoid a Mattress on the road at 3am. I turned of ESP cause I thought it was "intrusive" to my driving. I tried saving it but the car but the tire slipped off the rim from all the sliding force. Ended up hitting the cable barrier. I did all the right things, did not even touch brakes until I knew for sure I was going into the barrier. Car was totalled. Now I ALWAYS drive with ESP on.
Well, i've been driven old honda's for about 3 years now. The only assist i had so far was ABS. In the winter i took the 09' mini of my sister for a ride. I almost crashed it when i got into a black iced corner, because the car started behaving ridiculous weird. I cant really tell what happend. I just floored the gaspedal, like i would in my civic to gain stability, but the car did decelerate instead.
I was not a master, I was experienced in the snow and knew my limits. Yes, ESP(ESC) is a great feature and I have it in my new car but I was simply saying that it IS possible to drive in the snow with a RWD vehicle without ESP.
@MICEVVV because ESP prevents many people from having fun when they aren't in dangerous conditions. Even when I switch ESP "off" in my Jetta it still remains on and prevents me from actually having fun in say an empty snowy parking lot.
Sadly, most of the time the button only turns off traction control.. Which allows the wheels to spin, but will interfere if you go sideways! I couldn't figure out why I couldn't do donuts in my Impreza, then I pulled the ABS fuse. ;)
I took a right turn too hot one day because I wasn't paying attention to how fast I was going, the ESC slammed on the left front brake so hard the ABS triggered.
The ESP is crap on my Impreza 2.0D, it misinterprets a bumpy slushy road as a skid, and will start to lock out tires, causing a sideways movement instead of actually recovering it. (Which was never even needed since the thing goes like a pair of carving skiis with the ABS fuse removed) That's what happened to the older car in the beginning btw, pendulum skid is what I call it, you correct 2-3 times and it'll eventually gain enough momentum to pop the rear end, despite being a FWD car.
@MICEVVV The Federal Government will require this technology in all cars by 2012. Volkswagen has been pioneering and using this technology for several years. Just another example of the forward thinking that goes into the safety systems. VW is very pro-active when it comes to safety.
If your car has 4 brake pedals, one for each wheel, and if your brain can compute the amount of braking needed on each wheel according to many factors (wheel speed, steering wheel angle, yaw rate, lateral acceleration, longitudinal acceleration, etc.) with the precision of a computer, all that in 1/25th of a second, then yes, you can do what ESP does.
We don't get a lot of snow where I live but we do get a lot of rain and our roads are very badly maintained. The problem I see is that newer drivers have no concept of the laws of physics, they want to go they push the gas, ESP and Traction control look after that, they want to stop they step on the brake, ABS EBD EBA stop them. Unfortunately when they don't allow enough room to stop and they run on loose gravel, their day quickly turns bad as they have no reflex or experience to help them.
@MICEVVV as long as they give us the option of turning it off, it is great idea. If the nannies in the dash cannot be shut off, life can be pain sometimes.
I usually drive my Audi without ESP in snowy conditions... It tries to stabilize too much even when you're in control of the car... works great on dry conditions though with quattro.
ESP sounds cool and all. I take corners around 45 mph. When ESP is on and I'm going on the speed it's starts to stall and lose speed. GTi i understand the worries but I can handle it, thankfully there's the ESP button and press to turn off, now let's take that turn even faster
The car makers were forced add this lifesaving device in 2012 and if you have an older non german car before that your mostly SOL. For any mountain driving I think this is a must here in CO in the winter.
My 2009 Lancer Rx has ASC (Active Stability Control), with a button to turn it off. According to the Mitsubishi website it appears to be the same thing as this.
@ylen13 yes but if a not so good driver is driving .. loses control and kills the good driver.... what is the point than ? I am as well supporting the adding of the system to every car ;)
Great system and all, but the narration at the beginning gets a big thing wrong. Countersteering strongly in a front wheel drive while still anything from neutral throttle to added throttle will cause the sudden response and overcorrection. If you countersteer while easing off the throttle, it will recover better. (Been there, done that.) ESP turns the process into a 'point and shoot' - keep the same throttle and point where you want to go.
would like to read comments below ?Esp is not just to brake with each wheel but to help come out from over(under)steer .Which over 90%cant do it.So all should use ESp ,but that system its not stupid proof .
because they don't understand what really happens. Cars with ESP can brake individual wheels on as needed basis. When you press a brake pedal, you are stopping all 4 wheels at the same time. Subaru used ESP type control for 10 years now in their AWD instead of having differential lockers. Once the computers became cheap and strong enough, you can do miracles. Now you can have a computer apply brakes individually as needed. Just like they showed in a tractor, where you can brake individual wheels
This exact situation happened to me at 70mph on motorway in my beetle in sleet conditions.It saved my life AND car but did stall in the fast lane facing opposite direction in the end.
all these electronic driver aids are good for one thing...showing that it's okay to not know how to drive. accidents do happen, even to good drivers, but without electronic stability and whatnot all the bad drivers would be off the road...probly in ditches.
I can see the ESP is basically making the car understeer instead of Oversteer. At least that's what happened to my Scirocco when I'm doing spirited drives.
i have almost been hit more times coming off a stop sign because the damn traction control would shut the car down right in the middle of the road, it has saved my ass on a few snowy roads though. overall i dont think it needs to be on if you are doing less than 20 mph
Cars with high center of gravity are likely to roll over regardless . Cars rolling over has nothing to do with ESP or stability control Tall cars can role over while still pointing in to the correct location without loosing control
TheDownloader86 Don't want to be the guy that comments "you're wrong, i'm right", but it's only standard on the premium brands in Europe like Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc.. On a Peugeot, Citroën or Renault for example it's not. I do hope it will be standard on all cars in the near future.
Stijn Van den bossche Sorry man, but you are living in the past ;) www.worldcarfans.com/114110283687/esp-now-mandatory-for-all-passenger-cars-sold-in-europe
i don't like ESC i have a car that's year is 1986 and i know what i am doing at all times when driving then i have a car with ESC and i don't trust it and have less control in ice and snow scares the shit out of me and i drive my old car because i feel safe
We recently had some snow here in England. I went to a very iced over car park to try out ESC/ESP and EBD I was shocked by how well all the systems worked. No matter what I tried I couldn't get the car to spin out or go out of control. I then had a bit of a laugh with ESC/ESP turned off. While driving on normal roads that were iced over I felt safer knowing that ESC/ESP would assist had there been a problem. Even the best drivers cannot prevent all spin outs. I sometimes think these systems cause people to drive like twats though. I see many people who do not drive to the conditions on iced over roads. They have too much faith in technology. In some countries to pass the driving test you must drive on a skid pan without any electrical assists such as ESC/ESP, ABS, EBD.
Moral of the story: Never ever swirl sharply. When driving fast even the slightest movement of the steering wheel could unsettle the car. This is why the best drivers are also the smoothest. In this way they can take corners at the maximum possible speed while still maintaining control over the vehicle and not braking traction. Computer controlling each wheel's brakes individually is always better, but older cars are not equipped with it.
it seems that Electronic Stability Control has similar effects of The Integral Traction (which definely distributes the same force upon all the wheels) . . . but ESC looks that doing the same thing, but with the help of the computer (which calculates the forces on the moment and acting the wheels in the right way, controlling the traction) I wonder how good is this During The Most Difficult Situations . . . maybe ESC is not as good as 4x4 System EVERYTIME ! 2x4 System is GOOD JUST FOR DRIFTING
I prefer no ESC. My main vehicle in the winter is a 4x4 truck but I don't use the 4x4 unless I need it to get moving. So then I can really feel the road because if it's icy the back end "kicks" or "breaks" and I slow down. Then I drive past all the ESC vehicles that are in the ditch because the ESC got them going faster but then couldn't handle the icy corner because well they aren't magic. Everyone must remember that ESC or not you have 4 tires on the road and that is your maximum traction. ESC is like anti-lock brakes, for many drivers all they do is cause them to drive faster than they should due to overconfidence. It is interesting that one of the examples given in this video is passing a truck. Well, nobody is going to have problems with that on dry roads ESC or not. The ESC comes in when you are on slippery roads and probably shouldn't be passing anyway, because it will fail if the brake the computer applies cannot create the required moment around the weight of the car. Do you really want to get in front of a heavy truck who also can't stop and have that happen? ESC is like many of our technological marvels: wonderful in theory but not worth the money. It is worse than air bags. They sold us all on air bags, but what you really need to do is put on your seat belt and slow down. And learn to drive. The reason Farmer's gives a discount if you have ESC is that so many of us don't know how to drive. The days where the person operating the vehicle was a part of the vehicle are now long gone, and the vehicles themselves are being programmed to do a large part of the driving so any idiot can do it, even a 10 year old. The last rental I had wouldn't let me change lanes without signalling even if there was nobody else on the road to signal to. And I didn't have the car long enough to figure out how to turn that off. And I never did try and see what would happen if I signaled my way into the ditch, I think it would have allowed it so long as the signal was on. All this technology is like auto pilot on a plane. It's fine until something goes wrong and then you hope like hell the pilot knows what he is doing. All this technology, I believe, is making us worse and irresponsible drivers. We don't have to think about safe stopping distances because the anti-lock and radar following has it covered. We don't have to stay in our lane anymore because the car will do that for you. We don't have to know how to drive on slippery roads because of ESC. It's getting to the point you may as well grab a nap in the back seat and just hope for the best. And it's also hard to see how drunk driving laws will be relevant for long, heck "the car was driving itself officer. I was just grabbing a bit of a nap!" "Not my fault I hit that pole, the radar must have failed!"
The ESP is more advanced than the ASR. I am not sure about the addition of the ESP to a 2007. You should check with a local VW dealer or licensed mechanic.
One important thing they forgot to add. The quality of the tires. Mrs or Mr everybody will not kindly buy 1500 to 2000 dollars tires/sets. They might go with the model who has a notch over the average ones or maybe cheaper. We have to learn to leave home a little earlier when the road conditions are less favorable. This way, you will be less stressed about being late at work.
Yes, but more because ABS is a mandated feature these days. And also because ABS is cheaper so you'd expect to have it in a vehicle equipped with ESP... Kind of like a vehicle equipped with air conditioning will have a radio.
Well that's the point isn't it??? Because if it didn't then you probably instantly get a car which doesn't do ANYTHING you tell it to do and is riding itself. Therefore you have less control over the car. What I'm trying to say is that it's better that it does something untold at the right time to keep your control over car, then doing nothing and leaving that car uncontrollable at all don't you think? In which case you think driver has more control in the one you survive or in the one you die?
I have a question. Some new cars like Audi have the option to have it ON, Sport (partially ON) or OFF. What does it mean to have it on SPORT? Does that mean you can sort of drift or what?
"sport" mode is designed for closed courses it re dose the fuel mapping a little bit for more power over fuel economy depending on how advanced the maker of the car wanted the computer to be, it also removes some if not all stability controls such as abs and this esc, traction control etc. read ur owners manual tog et the specifics of ur vehicle
in the bmw case, when you put it in sport(called "intermediate" or someting like that) it doesn't do anything when you slides until you leave the throttle, if you still accelerating it will still sliding, in the normal mode, it would not let the car slide
***** Likewise in the Ford Fiesta and Focus ST, "Sport" mode is also described by Ford as "Wide Slip" mode -- where the ESC will allow the car to understeer whilst you have the power down, but will still help you if you start to oversteer.
ASR is a part of ESP...ASR ist actually for controlling how your car accelerate. It will slow down your tires if the dont hav enough grip...esp is for thinks like this if you have an evasion
The reason why the golf lost control was because the steering angle was to much. Compare the beetle front wheels to the golf and you will notice that the driver of the beetle does fast but not to much steering like the golf. Stability Control does make a difference but the golf one could have been avoided and Stability Control might not have stopped the spin .
Although true and I very much doubt the average driver has the skill that you may have to keep a car under control whilst skidding. ESP is helpful for the average driver even if it isn't lightning fast and I'm sure it can even help you if you do react before it.
If you don't know how to exploit a balanced chassis and don't understand about tuck, lift and oversteer, keep the ESP on. Sometimes I will turn mine off on wet roundabouts for a laugh. A bit of lift and you get a lovely drift. Although the ESP systems are very good I think, not intrusive at all. The ESP won't stop you from crashing. It just makes it about 15% harder.
Thank you Anton Van Zanten ( the engineer at bosch ) for inventing this and many other electronic safety systems for cars. You have prevented thousands of tragedies.
I remember one time when I had fun in snow with the ESP disabled, then I press the button to enable it and go away from the spot. I then tried to handbrake turn again, what a surprise when the ESP kicked in on the left front wheel :D
Actually gives me more peace of mind after seeing this. Got my GTI in march after a dry winter, but haven't driven a FWD Car in the snow probably since 2001.
One of the most important safety features indeed. Many fatal car crashes are due to fishtailing and losing control on a highway with oncoming traffic that ESC/ESP/VSC can prevent.
I can personally attest to this. In our 2009 Jetta Wagon, driving on snowy roads, I've entered into a skid two or three times. I felt the back of the car spin out. I could feel ABS applied to the left front wheel. Incredible, it just kept me on the road.
Heyyy that's my car ! the Red New Beetle ! :-) ... 14 years old and I'm still loving it ... And YES, ESP saved me 2 or 3 times from serious problems, so IT IS useful, totally ! People who say it is useless never drive on snowy weather ...
Exactly. When we have snow here in Canada, we have a lot of it. Have you ever noticed that most of drivers that passes you under risky conditions have 4x4's or AWD. Eventually, a few moments later, they're in the "ditch"
Saved my life on more than one occasion, seriously, fantastic invention x
1:54 - "If, while driving, the brake is applied to the rear wheel on the right hand side, it creates moment about the vertical axis of the vehicle. The tractor describes a right hand curve."
What a beautifully constructed sentence. You certainly wouldn't hear anything remotely as precise these days.
If this were a modern TV clip, no doubt it would be something like: "The special brakes make the tractor turn."
yeah, you could say that ESP is an addon for the ABS, if i remember correctly, they use the same computer
ESP gives the car a different handling feel than how you expect the car to react. This is something I had to get used to, but it's a great feature to have when you really need it.
@Glasskis:
If the wheels spin, you don't accelerate that much (if at all).
ESP does not slow down acceleration, except when you loose traction like in slippery conditions.
Also, you can simply turn it off by pressing a button.
Yes, because ABS was invented 10 years before the ESP + the ESP in some car uses the ABS to keep the car on the road. Two awesome Systems
In such cases there is 'emergency brake assist' which detects how hard you hit the brake pedal and if it detect and emergency application.. adds full pressure to the system to get maximum braking (after all, hydraulic brakes still rely on human pedal force input)
Most cars have Vacuum boosters (which run off the engine manifold pressure) between the pedal and the hydraulic master cylinder but it's still multiplying human force. The most common departure from this is brake-by-wire, often found in hybrids with blended regeneration and friction brakes where pedal back pressure is faked with a spring.
ESP and ASR are two things ask together. My brothers Saab had ESP and it had balanced weights in the doors to tell if the car went into a slide. ASR is just automatic skid reduction, like traction control it kills power from the engine to stop the front tires from slipping
I agree with you, some drivers even know that the car will start to slide before it actually does so they are prepared to counter way before ESP kicks in.
FWD cars still have this problem!! Especially in snowy and slick conditions! experienced it many times and did 2 360s on a highway at highway speed! Happy no one was in other lane or could have been dead. Had ESC in turboed 300 horses cobalt and it saved my butt when it was snowy as well when I turned in too fast. Should be mandatory on all cars, but love being able to turn it off and have fun once in a while too.
First introduced in 1995 On the Mercedes S600 and the Toyota Crown Majesta 1995. They were supplied by Bosch who invented the system. in 1999 Mercedes committed to fitting it to every vehicle it made. VAG also started fitting on the vast majority of their cars. Inlucding the MK4 Golf featured in this video as they got them in the early 2000s. For awhile ESP was a premium safety feature that was almost exclusive to German cars as Bosch readily supplied German cars easily.
For the life of me I just can't figure out why some decide to go against the ESC just because they think they have all the skills(or egos) they need to control their vehicles; however as demonstrated the car will probably need to give you three more brake pedals(one for each wheel) to control the vehicle the same way ESP can.
I bought a 2000 vw beetle 1.8t 4motion edition, v6 tsi engine, vw only made 400 of the 4motion editions and i love it. Drives on ice and snow like a tank! 6 speed manual tran with ESP,ABS, and of course all wheel drive. Never had to do an abrupt swerve like that but 4motion helps out a ton.
1.8t 4motion v6 ???????
1.8t is a 4 inline engine.
V6 is the VR6 and a 3.2 l engine no turbo.
4motion??? Rsi special edition is the one known but again 4motion and the VR6 3.2L engine and only 250 cars were ever built
+blackowl 76 I 1.8T V6. Now that is RARE! lol
ESP is very useful for most drivers driving front wheel drive car's. However, with my rear wheel drive Mercedes CLK, I often can't reach nor leave my home safely if the road is snow or ice covered, unless I deactivate ESP (As opposed to wy wifes Fiat, which works brill on any surface). If you are aware of- and used to oversteering, rwd cars react rather strange and unpredictable with ESP. E.g. it takes longer for them to turn into curves as if they where understeering. Once the ECU is done keeping you in a sraight line, it bites into the curve. This then sends you into a too narrow turning circle, because you are likely to have turned the wheel a bit too far by that time. Merc decided to make the ESP only semi deactivatable so i've altered the switch/wiring to cut the power for the ABS at the same.
+v8guggi I drive a 2007 Ford Focus 1.6 VCT-TI. ESP is slow to react. In my case i correct my steering input much faster than the ESP so the ESP does a correction over my correction resulting in a hilarious overcorection. It is so ridiculus that i have to turn it off when i drive in snow or heavy rain, defeating its purpose in the first place. It also nearly killed me 3 times.
In my experience ESP can only help novice drivers who tent to freeze up, lock brakes and aplly full steering input with no correction as you see in US when they crash every winter like there is no tomorow.
Learned something new today. Very well done video albeit old but looks accurate.
After owning a VW I can attest that this works excellently.
yes you are right. i for example did play a lot of racing games (like dirt 3) and this really improves your ability to countersteer( i dont expect you to belief that but its true) i did also drive a lot with a go kart. and i recommend this for many people who feel unsafe while driving a car because the physics are quiet similar and you can really practise to control your car. but i think that ESP is still the faster and safer way to control the car especially if there are others driving around.
If you try to drift in the snow on a open slippery parkinglot you can feel and see how good it works.
I tried to drift with my MB Sprinter, it drifts a little bit when i step on the gas but when i push it to far the ESP kicks in and takes it back. There was no way to spin all around.
it works great
In certain situations, you do. ESP can do things quicker and more accurate than any human could.
TBF mate, go take a look at how Tiff Needel managed on snow/ice with and without ESP... even when he knew what to expect an experienced racing driver couldn't save the slide.
It's the ESP's ability to brake individual wheels that we can never do that really makes the difference... I'm all for tail out fun, but for outright safety on the roads I really prefer ESP + ABS + Winter Tyres when the weather gets white - each to their own :)
as an example for your point, my only ever crash was 6 months after i passed my test and almost exactly the same instance as the first slip in the mk4 golf. i fishtailed back and forth 3-4 times ALMOST controlled it.... and ended in someones front room.... New car and having a claim against my insurance for 14 grand and i think ESP is seriously worth while :L
Yes, that is correct. The ESP actually use the ABS sensors in addition to other sensors like wheel speed differentials. Some systems also have sensors that can tell if the vehicle has an angle on the road, and sensors that tell abnormal coarse changes. This stuff gets better and better every year. There are also cars that notice abnormal driving patterns, and notice you are sleeping. This is not called ESP though, but it is derived from it.
My VW possibly saved my life yesterday because of this.. good thing I chose my first car to be a VW lol
I used to think so until I wrecked my Jaguar XJ Sport going 65mph trying to avoid a Mattress on the road at 3am. I turned of ESP cause I thought it was "intrusive" to my driving. I tried saving it but the car but the tire slipped off the rim from all the sliding force. Ended up hitting the cable barrier. I did all the right things, did not even touch brakes until I knew for sure I was going into the barrier. Car was totalled. Now I ALWAYS drive with ESP on.
Wait are you trying to say that in a 2002 golf gti 337 the ASR works the same way as ESP? Like on a fully loaded Saab 9-5
If I want to drive on those desert roads with all the bushes rolling across taken by the wind I definitely need one of them ESC.
Well, i've been driven old honda's for about 3 years now. The only assist i had so far was ABS.
In the winter i took the 09' mini of my sister for a ride. I almost crashed it when i got into a black iced corner, because the car started behaving ridiculous weird. I cant really tell what happend. I just floored the gaspedal, like i would in my civic to gain stability, but the car did decelerate instead.
I was not a master, I was experienced in the snow and knew my limits. Yes, ESP(ESC) is a great feature and I have it in my new car but I was simply saying that it IS possible to drive in the snow with a RWD vehicle without ESP.
@MICEVVV because ESP prevents many people from having fun when they aren't in dangerous conditions. Even when I switch ESP "off" in my Jetta it still remains on and prevents me from actually having fun in say an empty snowy parking lot.
True to a point, but you still cant apply the breaks individual wheels.
I have esp on my electric unicycle.
you want to sell it
barrett tate naah :)!
+GranVlog OK how about I trade you a pice of chicken for it ؛)
barrett tate i would like that
Whats the model of your unicycle
Sadly, most of the time the button only turns off traction control.. Which allows the wheels to spin, but will interfere if you go sideways!
I couldn't figure out why I couldn't do donuts in my Impreza, then I pulled the ABS fuse. ;)
so this is why i cant make the back end of my gti come out when im trying to slide around gravel turns.... DAMN YOU ESP!!!!!!!!
I took a right turn too hot one day because I wasn't paying attention to how fast I was going, the ESC slammed on the left front brake so hard the ABS triggered.
The ESP is crap on my Impreza 2.0D, it misinterprets a bumpy slushy road as a skid, and will start to lock out tires, causing a sideways movement instead of actually recovering it.
(Which was never even needed since the thing goes like a pair of carving skiis with the ABS fuse removed)
That's what happened to the older car in the beginning btw, pendulum skid is what I call it, you correct 2-3 times and it'll eventually gain enough momentum to pop the rear end, despite being a FWD car.
thanks for this video, it was impossible to explain this to someone
@MICEVVV The Federal Government will require this technology in all cars by 2012. Volkswagen has been pioneering and using this technology for several years. Just another example of the forward thinking that goes into the safety systems. VW is very pro-active when it comes to safety.
If your car has 4 brake pedals, one for each wheel, and if your brain can compute the amount of braking needed on each wheel according to many factors (wheel speed, steering wheel angle, yaw rate, lateral acceleration, longitudinal acceleration, etc.) with the precision of a computer, all that in 1/25th of a second, then yes, you can do what ESP does.
We don't get a lot of snow where I live but we do get a lot of rain and our roads are very badly maintained. The problem I see is that newer drivers have no concept of the laws of physics, they want to go they push the gas, ESP and Traction control look after that, they want to stop they step on the brake, ABS EBD EBA stop them. Unfortunately when they don't allow enough room to stop and they run on loose gravel, their day quickly turns bad as they have no reflex or experience to help them.
so ESP is all about matching the braking to maintain stability? theres no extra power to wheells or somthn? ..if i understand correctly
@MICEVVV as long as they give us the option of turning it off, it is great idea. If the nannies in the dash cannot be shut off, life can be pain sometimes.
I usually drive my Audi without ESP in snowy conditions... It tries to stabilize too much even when you're in control of the car... works great on dry conditions though with quattro.
ESP is scary if you need to slide because it does everything it can to prevent you from doing it.
MtotheM when would you ever need to slide tho?
when you need to do tokyo drift, do it on a track and turn off the esp
2:02 to fast to furious traktor drift
ESP sounds cool and all. I take corners around 45 mph. When ESP is on and I'm going on the speed it's starts to stall and lose speed. GTi i understand the worries but I can handle it, thankfully there's the ESP button and press to turn off, now let's take that turn even faster
I have a VW without ESP and never had a problem with oversteer. Glad I did not waste my money.
Engineering engineering!! i love it
the wheel base is shorter too.??
ESP is great! My mom's rabbit has it and that little thing tackles the snow like a truck!
Agreed man. I choose to drive my RWD BMW 3 series last winter, worst decision ever... Every two minutes that car was stuck.
The car makers were forced add this lifesaving device in 2012 and if you have an older non german car before that your mostly SOL. For any mountain driving I think this is a must here in CO in the winter.
My 2009 Lancer Rx has ASC (Active Stability Control), with a button to turn it off. According to the Mitsubishi website it appears to be the same thing as this.
@ylen13 yes but if a not so good driver is driving .. loses control and kills the good driver.... what is the point than ? I am as well supporting the adding of the system to every car ;)
Well ABS only requires a subset if the equipment required for ESP so you already have all of the hardware for "free".
Great system and all, but the narration at the beginning gets a big thing wrong. Countersteering strongly in a front wheel drive while still anything from neutral throttle to added throttle will cause the sudden response and overcorrection. If you countersteer while easing off the throttle, it will recover better. (Been there, done that.) ESP turns the process into a 'point and shoot' - keep the same throttle and point where you want to go.
would like to read comments below ?Esp is not just to brake with each wheel but to help come out from over(under)steer .Which over 90%cant do it.So all should use ESp ,but that system its not stupid proof .
because they don't understand what really happens. Cars with ESP can brake individual wheels on as needed basis. When you press a brake pedal, you are stopping all 4 wheels at the same time. Subaru used ESP type control for 10 years now in their AWD instead of having differential lockers. Once the computers became cheap and strong enough, you can do miracles. Now you can have a computer apply brakes individually as needed. Just like they showed in a tractor, where you can brake individual wheels
@MICEVVV P.S.--it has been projected that this technology will save more lives than airbags!!!
This exact situation happened to me at 70mph on motorway in my beetle in sleet conditions.It saved my life AND car but did stall in the fast lane facing opposite direction in the end.
5tu4rtyb0y77 that’s awesome! Glad you’re safe.
Joel Waters thanks for your reply.😘
where i live we get the permete at 14 and licence at 15 OR 16
all these electronic driver aids are good for one thing...showing that it's okay to not know how to drive. accidents do happen, even to good drivers, but without electronic stability and whatnot all the bad drivers would be off the road...probly in ditches.
@bigsnowaowan No doubt!!!
The video is more powerful than the best explanation I've heard. Seeing is believing.
I can see the ESP is basically making the car understeer instead of Oversteer. At least that's what happened to my Scirocco when I'm doing spirited drives.
i have almost been hit more times coming off a stop sign because the damn traction control would shut the car down right in the middle of the road, it has saved my ass on a few snowy roads though. overall i dont think it needs to be on if you are doing less than 20 mph
I love how he says ESP(Electronic Stability Program) And title says ESC(Electronic Stability Control) ! lol
Cars with high center of gravity are likely to roll over regardless
.
Cars rolling over has nothing to do with ESP or stability control
Tall cars can role over while still pointing in to the correct location without loosing control
Should be fitted to every vehicle as standard IMO there are so many dash cam accident videos I see that this system could prevent.
It is in EU.
TheDownloader86 Don't want to be the guy that comments "you're wrong, i'm right", but it's only standard on the premium brands in Europe like Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc.. On a Peugeot, Citroën or Renault for example it's not. I do hope it will be standard on all cars in the near future.
Stijn Van den bossche Sorry man, but you are living in the past ;) www.worldcarfans.com/114110283687/esp-now-mandatory-for-all-passenger-cars-sold-in-europe
i don't like ESC i have a car that's year is 1986 and i know what i am doing at all times when driving then i have a car with ESC and i don't trust it and have less control in
ice and snow scares the shit out of me and i drive my old car because i feel safe
We recently had some snow here in England. I went to a very iced over car park to try out ESC/ESP and EBD I was shocked by how well all the systems worked. No matter what I tried I couldn't get the car to spin out or go out of control. I then had a bit of a laugh with ESC/ESP turned off.
While driving on normal roads that were iced over I felt safer knowing that ESC/ESP would assist had there been a problem. Even the best drivers cannot prevent all spin outs.
I sometimes think these systems cause people to drive like twats though. I see many people who do not drive to the conditions on iced over roads. They have too much faith in technology. In some countries to pass the driving test you must drive on a skid pan without any electrical assists such as ESC/ESP, ABS, EBD.
Moral of the story: Never ever swirl sharply. When driving fast even the slightest movement of the steering wheel could unsettle the car. This is why the best drivers are also the smoothest. In this way they can take corners at the maximum possible speed while still maintaining control over the vehicle and not braking traction. Computer controlling each wheel's brakes individually is always better, but older cars are not equipped with it.
however the new beetle is equiped with tyres for snow perposes and golf not. There is now way otherwhise to do that....
it seems that Electronic Stability Control has similar effects of The Integral Traction (which definely distributes the same force upon all the wheels) . . . but ESC looks that doing the same thing, but with the help of the computer (which calculates the forces on the moment and acting the wheels in the right way, controlling the traction)
I wonder how good is this During The Most Difficult Situations . . . maybe ESC is not as good as 4x4 System EVERYTIME !
2x4 System is GOOD JUST FOR DRIFTING
is it possible to attach an ESP system on a 2007 jetta with no ESP? it have ASR but it's not quite life saving like ESP right ?
I prefer no ESC. My main vehicle in the winter is a 4x4 truck but I don't use the 4x4 unless I need it to get moving. So then I can really feel the road because if it's icy the back end "kicks" or "breaks" and I slow down. Then I drive past all the ESC vehicles that are in the ditch because the ESC got them going faster but then couldn't handle the icy corner because well they aren't magic. Everyone must remember that ESC or not you have 4 tires on the road and that is your maximum traction. ESC is like anti-lock brakes, for many drivers all they do is cause them to drive faster than they should due to overconfidence. It is interesting that one of the examples given in this video is passing a truck. Well, nobody is going to have problems with that on dry roads ESC or not. The ESC comes in when you are on slippery roads and probably shouldn't be passing anyway, because it will fail if the brake the computer applies cannot create the required moment around the weight of the car. Do you really want to get in front of a heavy truck who also can't stop and have that happen?
ESC is like many of our technological marvels: wonderful in theory but not worth the money. It is worse than air bags. They sold us all on air bags, but what you really need to do is put on your seat belt and slow down. And learn to drive.
The reason Farmer's gives a discount if you have ESC is that so many of us don't know how to drive. The days where the person operating the vehicle was a part of the vehicle are now long gone, and the vehicles themselves are being programmed to do a large part of the driving so any idiot can do it, even a 10 year old. The last rental I had wouldn't let me change lanes without signalling even if there was nobody else on the road to signal to. And I didn't have the car long enough to figure out how to turn that off. And I never did try and see what would happen if I signaled my way into the ditch, I think it would have allowed it so long as the signal was on.
All this technology is like auto pilot on a plane. It's fine until something goes wrong and then you hope like hell the pilot knows what he is doing.
All this technology, I believe, is making us worse and irresponsible drivers. We don't have to think about safe stopping distances because the anti-lock and radar following has it covered. We don't have to stay in our lane anymore because the car will do that for you. We don't have to know how to drive on slippery roads because of ESC. It's getting to the point you may as well grab a nap in the back seat and just hope for the best. And it's also hard to see how drunk driving laws will be relevant for long, heck "the car was driving itself officer. I was just grabbing a bit of a nap!" "Not my fault I hit that pole, the radar must have failed!"
absolutely, and most will likey have traction control to complement it aswell.
The ESP is more advanced than the ASR. I am not sure about the addition of the ESP to a 2007. You should check with a local VW dealer or licensed mechanic.
One important thing they forgot to add. The quality of the tires. Mrs or Mr everybody will not kindly buy 1500 to 2000 dollars tires/sets. They might go with the model who has a notch over the average ones or maybe cheaper. We have to learn to leave home a little earlier when the road conditions are less favorable. This way, you will be less stressed about being late at work.
Yes, but more because ABS is a mandated feature these days. And also because ABS is cheaper so you'd expect to have it in a vehicle equipped with ESP...
Kind of like a vehicle equipped with air conditioning will have a radio.
So drivers of esp equipped vehicles will have to take their car in more often to have their brakes inspected.
Well that's the point isn't it??? Because if it didn't then you probably instantly get a car which doesn't do ANYTHING you tell it to do and is riding itself. Therefore you have less control over the car.
What I'm trying to say is that it's better that it does something untold at the right time to keep your control over car, then doing nothing and leaving that car uncontrollable at all don't you think?
In which case you think driver has more control in the one you survive or in the one you die?
But what if you are trying to drift? Can you turn it off?
I have a question. Some new cars like Audi have the option to have it ON, Sport (partially ON) or OFF. What does it mean to have it on SPORT? Does that mean you can sort of drift or what?
"sport" mode is designed for closed courses it re dose the fuel mapping a little bit for more power over fuel economy depending on how advanced the maker of the car wanted the computer to be, it also removes some if not all stability controls such as abs and this esc, traction control etc. read ur owners manual tog et the specifics of ur vehicle
in the bmw case, when you put it in sport(called "intermediate" or someting like that) it doesn't do anything when you slides until you leave the throttle, if you still accelerating it will still sliding, in the normal mode, it would not let the car slide
***** Likewise in the Ford Fiesta and Focus ST, "Sport" mode is also described by Ford as "Wide Slip" mode -- where the ESC will allow the car to understeer whilst you have the power down, but will still help you if you start to oversteer.
ASR is a part of ESP...ASR ist actually for controlling how your car accelerate. It will slow down your tires if the dont hav enough grip...esp is for thinks like this if you have an evasion
You have spoken the truth my friend.
The reason why the golf lost control was because the steering angle was to much. Compare the beetle front wheels to the golf and you will notice that the driver of the beetle does fast but not to much steering like the golf. Stability Control does make a difference but the golf one could have been avoided and Stability Control might not have stopped the spin .
so a car with ESP will always have ABS to,right?
What if somebody wants to bring the tail out ?
Although true and I very much doubt the average driver has the skill that you may have to keep a car under control whilst skidding. ESP is helpful for the average driver even if it isn't lightning fast and I'm sure it can even help you if you do react before it.
If you don't know how to exploit a balanced chassis and don't understand about tuck, lift and oversteer, keep the ESP on. Sometimes I will turn mine off on wet roundabouts for a laugh. A bit of lift and you get a lovely drift.
Although the ESP systems are very good I think, not intrusive at all.
The ESP won't stop you from crashing. It just makes it about 15% harder.
Wait ESP or ESC? I'm pretty sure ESP has something to do with psychic stuff "Extra Sensory Perception"
How does Spain help this at all?
One thing though the beetle has a much shorter wheelbase than the other car which would help a lot in preventing "fish tailing" during the swerve
but can i still drift? ohh and can i put into my mk2 jetta?
what happends if he is running?