How to install crown molding on a vaulted cathedral ceiling WITHOUT transition piece
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Presented by Frank Fredericks Custom Homes, this video explains how to install crown moulding on a vaulted or cathedral ceiling without using a 3rd piece (transition piece) as every other instructional video shows. This method can be used with most traditional vaulted ceilings without issue and looks much cleaner and more integrated than using the transition piece.
Excellent video. I've been installing crown the last 2 days and now onto a vaulted kitchen tomorrow. Most experienced guys that make videos on youtube complicate the process to a point where the average person is confused. I find it doest need to get sooo damn complicated. Spitting out numbers and formulas and backwards, upside-down, sideways, inside out, this , that, and so on. Videos like this help soo much. Straight forward,to the point, and clearly presented in a timely manner that people can retain. Excellent job! I find that making a mockup of the inside 90° angle helps too. It's nice to have the angle in your hand and test it where your putting it. Also great idea for where to mark on the wall as a point to cut to . Thanks for the video!
Nice! I have been doing crown molding for years up north but not vaulted ceilings! This helps me so much. Thank you!
it won't work with steep vaults though.
You are absutly correct!
actually it does! but only if there is another trim piece going below to cover the gap it creates. I recently was in a situation where some very high steep vaulted ceilings needed to be crowned and they did not want transition pieces. it came out beautifully but in this case there was a flat dental molding below the crown and another layer below that so the gap was completely covered.looks way better than some odd transition piece.
I find that a combination of coped joints, using long runs to twist the board (works with MDF real good) and accurate angle calculations make most transitions possible without gaps. The trick is to know which end to cope, which runs are best averaged using a straight miter joint and when you need to get creative and use 2 different cut degrees for one joint; i.e., 22.5 degrees on one side and 33.8 on another. The seams don't line up perfect but it's better than using a bunch of transition pieces where a single joint would suffice. But I've been known to spend 30 minutes figuring out a transition angle.
AsTheWheelsTurn
Steep Vaults just require a quick cope, or belt/grind a smooth tranny opposite the bulge. 12 n 12 vault Cope Cope Cope the old ways are still the best.
Yes this might work with low degree angles. This will not work on high angle degree ceilings.
You will also have a gap at the bottom that you will have to use a lot of caulk to fill.
I agree he has twist the crown for it to work. May appear in the video it is right but it is not. To install crown properly that cannot be done. .. if you think it can be done. Try something simple like a 1x4 it's impossible.
47 year Master Carpenter
Thanks for the tutorial. You may have saved us a lot of work.
Gotta love all the experts in the comments
Yay!! Good for you!! You are so smart!! I wouldn't have ever known if it wasn't for this guy..
No glue and no coping?
Please note: Some comments below complain that we did not mention how to cut the angle at the peak. The reason for this is that all ceiling pitches are different and moreover this is a standard miter. You simply measure the angle, divide by two and cut to that angle like any other joint. For example, if you have a 60 degree angle, you just cut each piece at 30 degrees. As Robert says at 3:13 "We've bisected the angle for the peak cut."
Keep in mind this is not a video on how to cut standard miters or basics on how to install crown molding. We are assuming you already know how to cut miters for standard joints. This video is meant just to explain the joints where a flat ceiling meets a vault.
Additional comments say that this method won't work on higher pitched ceilings. We are a Florida based home builder where roof pitches are typically low. While this method will work on basically any pitch, we agree that higher pitches may look better with the use of plinth blocks or a third piece. However his method will work in the majority of applications and save many people valuable time and effort.
Thanks for the post. Very practical method, where applicable. I too feel that the finished look is much cleaner than others requiring the transitional piece.
Frank Fredericks Custom Homes
Frank, simple explanation
plumb a line down from center measure the 4" down or use the same template then measure length done.
Not cutting that 3rd piece was enough for me to figure out the pitch!!!! Lol that’s easy and I’m not and expert, I just bought my saw today, what a few hours of your vids , and crown was installed on a vaulted ceiling!
@@johnstockwellmajorsmedleyb1214 Same template? Really?
@@zeke112964
Run the template with the leg up the rake
Basically ignore the joint of the template and place it so the 90deg cut end is at the ridge,
Said another way would be,
flop the jig leaving the joint down the rake and the free 90deg leg up to the ridge,
Mark top and bottom just like always and the lines should bisect themselves
Place the legs up at the same position and mark where the 2 lines bisect each other that is the angle.
Top of the piece should stop at the predetermined ridge
The bottoms will bisect each other
You have physically created a plumb line and that is the bisected angles of the ridge angle
"SAWSET PROTRACTOR" is the most accurate miter finder out there. No Math. No gimmick.
Do the comparison. Great for cutting on the flat.
nice to see some saw settings, you missed the most important part.
"saw settings"
Me, too!
“Standard angle” “Simple”
EXCELLENT!!! THANK YOU!!
Wow this is good makes it look so easy
ㅎㅎㅎ very simple,very good tricks.thank you so much sir.
I love how you showed how you got an what the peak angle at the ridge was instead of saying something like we dissected the angle...😂😂😂😂
Great job! But usually what I do, is get the same profile in a smaller width and cope in to the flat wall crown. It’s just how I was taught. I learned that from the old rake board crown/cornice moulds used to die in to the old wood gutters. I was lucky enough to been taught by an old timer who used to specialize in that. Just reverse it for the interior.
But great job all the same, boys!
U are making yor cuts FLAT on your saw.
Will this procedure work if u cut it traditionally, back of saw(fence) your wall,- Table your Ceiling?
Watch Ron Paulks videos on this subject. 👍⚒️
That's what I'd suggest also 👍
As someone who's done a very small amount of crown and is in the beginning stages of traying my vaulted ceiling. I'm already sweating over wasting a ton of cash of crown. Thanks for this video. wish me luck
Good luck friend-o!
Is this a flex type of crown? because if using wood crown molding this would not work. Also, would not work if the slope (rake) is steep. I don't know educate me
Well buddy U have not tried but i will tomorrow. You make it look very easy hopefully it goes well. How do I set my miter?
I personally cope all inside corners and don’t use the third piece. In steep angles though you have to use the third piece. To steep a cut. Run triangle behind molding to nail to.
Kinda Failed this one. Pause it at 5:52. Over the peninsula top of crown he was on one side of the ceiling ridge peak , then the other side of the wall (outside corner) he was on the other side (kitchen side). Just twist it in push it up tight and toe nail it in to the drywall, then caulk it in right? Bet that didn't look great up close. Differences of opinion of quality job. To some this is not a big deal, but some higher end jobsites that is not acceptable. The spring on the outside corner is different then the inside corner maybe (transitional piece could have cured this possibly), so they didn't stay perpendicular to the ceiling transition ridge peak? Or maybe we'll assume it was bad framing out by a couple inches? Doubtful but possible. No nailing into studs which is easy with a magnetic stud finder and less likely to hit romex, Pex etc because nailguards should be in place. No glue that I saw inside corners, and not bothering to rip or plane the back of the crown so you dont have that huge gap behind the crown against the wall. That caulking will fail eventually, we have all seen what a 1/4" caulk job looks like down the road. Takes just as long to caulk it as it does to rip the back off just a little. Guess its the painters problem, then the homeowners in 5 years. This is typical track home piecework install, not finish carpentry. There is a reason for transitional pieces. Not always necessary, but sometimes they are a must depending on framing, pitch of lid and profile of crown. This job they were necessary. The steeper the rake, the more it is needed. Your mileage may vary job to job. BTW at least glue your corners if anything.
Josh Briere you do realize that two top plates mean you'll hit everywhere 95% of the time, right?
If you're gonna ridicule someone's work and call it shoddy, at least think of why this method would work in this application.
"two top plates"
Possibly, but with that wide a molding I think it would take three! On my job, the guy installed the ceiling below the top plates.
Also would add that those 'stud finders' are not the Bee's Knees.
I think this was a great video....i kinda agree with Josh tho. No glue in the corners? What if it was stain grade work, that job would go from ok to poor super fast. Caulking anywhere is ugly. Transitions should be easy to cut for an advanced carpenter. A beginner wouldn't attempt crown on a ceiling with these sort of transitions. It's easier and less work also nicer work, to RIP the spring angle on the crown, down than to leave a mess all over the walls and gaps that will deff show in a few days. I also want to thank everyone reading this that uses caulk to make your work better.
at 2:48 if he got rid of that gap at the top the gap at the mitre would be visible, good job holding it tight so we don't see the gap
This might work with low pitched ceilings and painted crown, but will not work with steep vaults nor will it be acceptable for high end work. It would look terrible. See Finished Carpentry TV, and Glen T, to see how its done properly.
Nailing blind into Sheetrock is going to get you into trouble. Changing the spring angle also makes that crown look like crap.
These guys clearly live by the old adage:
"A little putty and a little paint make a carpenter what he ain't."
Who's John Galt or, " A little spackle and and some caulk to make the carpenter that you are not"
Or Do your best, caulk the rest
Kevin Smith.... do your best, putty the rest lol
Caulk and paint hides what it ain't.
Show us how to do that on a 120 or 130 degree ceiling! You are about a 90-100 degree ceiling. There is a lot of pressure on the molding and will eventually pop some cracks. Lots of nail holes to fill!
looks nice! ill have to try out that technique.
2 days to install the crown . 6 months to put wood putty in all the nail holes .
Eh, leave that for the painter. Ha!
Question for @Frank Fredericks Custom Homes: 9 ft Ceiling that transitions down to an 8'-1" wall that angle runs for 35". I want to stop the crown molding at that wall. How do you join the two angles along the run without a transition piece? I seem to remember a Fine Homebuilding article about this but cannot find it.
This actually works. I'm blown away. A little caulking is some areas and it looks perfect!
no coping? get ready to come back and caulk when winter comes,an adjusted cope would take care of this without setting the crown on a slant its not meant to sit on,and relying on caulk. and show us a 6/12 pitch id enjoy seeing that
Why are you not coping the corners so that when the house settles the corners do not open up?
Didn't explain how to find miter and bevel angles though
Does the twisting trick work the same with a high pitch vault..Does it work regardless of the pitch ??
I hate to be the painter going behind him. Pretty reckless with the nail gun!
would this work for a joint that one wall is 90 degrees to the ceiling that attaches to a wall that is 45 degrees to the ceiling?
Did you manage to hit any framing timbers when installing a crown and fastening it what are you just Chinese toggle everything
the video doesnt show everything step by step obviously ... its just to explain the joints where a flat ceiling meets a vault.
"this video explains how to install crown moulding on a vaulted or cathedral ceiling"
Really ice work! However, lack of CC and poor audio 'lost me' as to the 'explanation!'
He appears to be advising we ignore the vault angles and cut everything as if working to a flat ceiling. I would suggest getting him a better microphone and a whiteboard so we can be certain as to the angles involved and the cuts required.
Or, send him over to my place ASAP!
Go buy a stud finder man. i also prefer coped corners they hold a tighter joint over time. I do like the template idea it makes the vaulted ceiling a lot easier to deal with.
yeah. cope the corners. although he is painting it so you can cheat it i guess. but definately forget the stud finder. set your table saw at a 45 and rip a few long corners off of a 2x4 and screw those into the top plate to the entire wall/cieling corner. then you dont have to search for studs, youll always hit the 8 foot triangle of spruce. plus you wonthave to do that silly method hes doing of angling nails in opposing directions. if youre doing that, then the only thing holding that stuff up is drywall, and thats some hacky shit.
Coping is for carpenters who can’t cut tight miters. To keep a tight joint cut your piece long, nail both corners first and work your way from the middle outwards. I been doing it this way for 30 years. Never had a joint fail.
Mr Geronimo good god man. that is dumbest thing ive ever heard. coping is for carpenters who cant cut tight miters?! coping is the professional way to do it, cause there are no gaps at all. its perfect. it takes an extra step, but doing things correctly usually does.
Mr Geronimo never had a joint fail. maybe nobody called you back cause it did fail. you routinely go back to your houses and inspect them years later?
Eric Gustin Seriously? Riddle me this. How does coping a joint prevent the material from drying and shrinking? A coped joint is just as susceptible to expansion and contraction as any other joint. And you say my comment was dumb?
To answer your other post. I always follow up with my clients. Months and yes, years later. I guess that’s why I never have to hunt down work.
Thanks for the post. But what wasn't covered in this video was how to cut the angle at the peak of the first wall-ceiling. I had to lay the crown flat on the saw with fitter pieces which were at 6 1/2 degrees to find my angle. Other than that your method worked like a charm.
How you going to fix the dents in your crown from beating the hell out of it?
Why didn't they show the caulking process. TV tricks always work but no one ever shows ALL the real challenges that you can come across NOR how to overcome them. How do you go to showing gaps in the install to a filled in AND painted process and tell me it's the next day and completed. MAJICAL! LOL
At what degree should the angle be?
pig in the sky looks like a angel
Holy nail shooting Batman does he get paid by the nail!
I wonder if he is shooting 4 nails at opposing angles because he isn't trying to find a stud/joist?
Strictly speaking and from an architectural viewpoint, it's a mistake to run crown molding up a raked ceiling, since crown mold is part of the entablature (embellished horizontal structure, supported by columns.)
Just because the other elements are not present, is no excuse to deviate from proper placement of the crown or Cornice mold.
If the ceiling were steeply pitched, you'd see how impossible and ridiculous it would appear.
just firing away and hammering on the molding, my boss would fire me on the spot.
We don't have to install these into the whole house do we? Would it look nice just in the rooms and not some of the hallways?
Excellent. I gave up today trying to figure out what angles to use on my compound miter saw and couldn't find a good explanation of how to make the corners work. I found this video and 7 minutes later, I'm ready to tackle this project tomorrow. Thanks for the common sense, to the point video.
So how did it turn out?
@@normgraham6658 worked great. Small pieces got tricky, but longer runs worked great.
how does a top and bottom return look for chair rail on stairs??
Very helpful
does that work for steeper ceilings.
Good video thanks - but no safety glasses when using a nail gun is nuts!
That made no sense, didn't explain anything. All I saw was someone putting about 10x too many nails in traim in random places and using a hammer on trim ... some people need not to do videos
This may work on a 100 degree by bending the molding and using a lot of nails. Lets see you do this on a 130 degree ceiling.
The best advice for crown molding cuts, thank you so much guys.
Wow that’s easy and great eliminating the third piece wow just create a template
laziest way of nailing anything Ive seen.
If you want to have less of a caulk joint you can change the angle crown on the table saw.bottom angle on straight pieces top and bottom for the pitch angles that way you dont have1/4 gap to caulk .
What about the gap on the bottom of the right half of the corner?
I will stick to my transitions.it adds craftsmanship.and no gaps for more caulking.thanks anyways.
I'm glad to see someone on here cutting crown laying down. Everyone thinks there's only one way to cut crown and claims it's the easiest way. Thank you for showing this....
Well, you are twisting this Crown molding when doing this, This is not the right way at all.
how was that outside vaulted down cut @ 5:36 what are the angles?
At least glue the corners (better yet cope) and brad nail into studs, give it the first winter all open seams.....Duh!
That only works on a very low pitch ceiling. If the pitch is more the crown almost lays flat on the adjacent wall.
This works in some instances but in others you’ll want the crown to match the ceiling lines. I do think this does look better for the most part but it only works by making the crown out of square. In your example it looks great (except for the flat peak where you can see the ceiling line go from almost nothing to 2”) in a room like your example you’ll never know and to be honest, that’s the best you’ll ever going to get a room with extreme vaulted ceiling. I feel crown is unnecessary but if you have to do it in that case I would use this method. In some other high end cases you have to keep it square and can’t chest the corners cause you’ll think whatever’s on the wall isn’t level
My first vaulted ceiling job I racked my brain for hours about that third piece. I don't remember how I came up with just doing like a regular inside corner but looks way better than the third piece abortion
Carpenters joiners always use glue and your joins should be bridged by backing to avoid cracking.
0:36 ... you know what happens when we 'assume'. Nothing should be 'taken for granted' in an instructional video.
I mean NO disrespect at all to you kind Sir; but I would not accept that entire crack at the bottom. And having to force cracks into work; is not acceptable. Because it can be corrected. Of course that takes more time. The reason your crack happened; is because you did not follow the real pros time proved "technique" to make it as perfect as it can be: BEFORE you use any caulking. IE:
You MUST use accurate tools to measure the myriad of degrees; and never use your own mind's accuracy to do "crown moldings". These tools are easy to get from the Web. Most of the times for free. But you NEED a crown molder tool; to measure any degree less than is different; of the typical 45 degrees; 38 degrees; 52 degrees and 90 degrees. For if any degree is over 1 degree out, you MUST make it within that 1 degree. And better; make it less than .5 degree off.
And in some cases (like laying the wood flat on the miter saw; instead of at the crown's miter) which the best pros never do; it MUST be within .01 degree. IF you want your job to be as it should be. Again, never use caulking to hide poor workmanship.
Again, I mean no disrespect; but "right is right" kind Sir.
For what it's worth.
It only works on vaults that are that shallow. And I dont think it even works in those. Maybe in some cheap ass fast trackin homes or mobile homes but other than that....nah. Looks like s#@*t! It’s great if you’re lazy I guess. ;-). AND OMG..... then he starts bangin’ the bottom of the profile without a block. Yeah......manufactured-home carpenter right there. lol. What a joke!
Will not work on a more angled pitch and will end up with an uneven look when compared to the door and/or window trim due to un natural manipulation of the crown. I prefer even and balanced look.
Why use so many god damn nails! Not to mention the massive holes that are being left behind! use a 16gu hit the same spot twice with a crisscross every 24'' only 1 hole to caulk and when the caulking dry's on the perimeter its going to hold 90% of the load, save your nails and your painters a lot of time!
Vaulted ceilings require on of two adjustments that seem to be ignored here. Either the "spring angle", usually from the combination of 38 and 52 degrees on the edges, has to be changed or the top angle will not fit closely to the ceiling but be peeled away. Usually this is not visible but sometimes it is. I try to recut the that angle to fit tightly to the ceiling. Just a suggestion.
Thanks for this video, I normally just install crown on cabinets and only occasionally around entire rooms but landed on a job where I needed to install some very large stacked up crown on vaulted ceilings and wasn't sure if I was going about it correctly. Everyone keeps telling me I HAVE to do a transition piece but I think that looks like a hack job especially in a 7 million dollar house........ I found that I could tilt the crown on the low wall just a little and adjust my miter by a couple degrees to get it to match up with the crown coming down from the vault perfectly, it worked on my test pieces but I wasn't feeling fully confident that I could go ahead and start cutting based on my own findings since everyone was swearing up and down there had to be a transition piece...anyway glad to find your video to confirm! in my case the gap below will be larger because of a steeper vault but i have a couple other flat moldings going under it so it wont matter. Thank you,great video!
u guys rock im about to do one ceiling almost identical and u guys just make my day !!!
how
1. Love how you're not going into studs with your nails.
2. DONT EVER even think about tapping the crown with a hammer and not use a block of wood.
3. This is a waste of time for someone who wants to learn how to do crown moulding right.
You and companies like yours give true TRADESMEN a bad rap you did not bother to even try to hit 1 stud or joist ( while I agree that you will not be able to hit a ceiling joist on opposite sides of a given room ) you didnt even try on the load bearing ( lower elevations ) . And while NOT every one has the ability to properly COPE a inside corner you did not even bother to glue the joints INSIDE OR OUTSIDE ( WTF ) . Remember that you are doing these videos for Mr. & Mrs. America that are trying to better them self's as well as their homes NOT get injured ( no safety equipment at all " safety glasses , no hearing protection AND shorts while running power and air tools " STUPID IDEA ). And NOW FOR THE FINER POINTS while rolling or twisting the crown is always a option, in the first 2 min. of your video its obvious that 2 - 45 degree miters DO NOT work properly for the application there for the angles are Easy to find rather than cheat the crown , JUST BISECT THEM. Within the first one or two seasonal changes all of the CAULK LINES and CRAPPY JOINTS will open due to "POOR CRAFTSMANSHIP".
couldnt agree more. this guy is a hack. terrible work. btw, you are correct in that hitting studs when doing crown is exceedingly difficult. much more so with large crown like hes using. the trick is, as i mentioned in another post, set you table saw at a 45 degree angle and rip long lengths of a 2x4 to make 8 foot triangles. screw these to the ceiling/wall corners as a backer. one box of 3 inch torques should do it. its a little extra work, but you always hit something with your nailer that way and the crown is as secure as it ever could be.
Eric Gustin Thanks for the tip about putting up a backer board, I'll try that on my next crown job.
He is stitching it to the sheetrock. Lol. Aside from lazy craftsmanship, this only works if the pitch is shallow. No backer or glue and mitered inside corners don’t look good for long. Taillight warranty.
yeah, it IS an extra step. but you never have to worry about hitting something, plus if you have a wall thats very long, you dont have to measure and cut your crown to land on a stud. no floating joints.
I live in Florida and my ceilings are a small vault, so this will definitely work for me. I'll be doing crown in my own home, and can't wait to try this method out, just waiting for my crown to be delivered. Thank you so much for sharing this with us.
safety glasses. ....? ? . I
Yeah but it gets too twisted. Especially on a 7/12 or more. This is hardly vaulted at all. Lol
I guess that wouldn't work for stain finished crown because of the gaps.
Ok, but not if you have solid unfinished wood. If you’re painting it, yea, just fill everything with caulk...why even try to make any accurate cuts if you’re just going to caulk everything? I’m surprised he miters regular inside 90s...they should always be coped.
Nice job fudging...this cannot be the right way if you are after a more perfect job
Making a wood canoe is also easier if you use just square cuts. :)
That nailing pattern is insane. How lazy do you have to be to not hold a stud finder in your hand while nailing up your trim?
I know why he did that. It's still lazy.
dont need a stud finder. with crown that big, its really hard to hit one even if you do find it. i always ripped down a 8 foot triagle piece from a 2x4 and screwed those to the wall all the way around the room. now i can nail anywhere i want and its secure. this guy is fucking idiot. there should be laws.
theres an added bonus of not having any blown through nails and not having any extra nails to fill in where you thought you had the stud but didnt and kept trying in that area and wound up with 8 nail holes that aint holding shit. lol
how we cut
Why is he shooting it so much damn better get a 5 gallon bucket of putty 😆
Wish I could see what you are doing on the angle marking.
This method fudges the spring angle on both sides of the corner to make a compromise for fitment. I'd consider this more of a "hack" than a solution.
the hack is often an adequate solution. no lives are at stake
@@RadEightyFour I understand. I'm dealing with this in my house now, and the "hack" would only be noticiable to trained finish carpenters.
my uncle Bob is the best at this kinda of stuff.
You nicely hide the slope transition over the kitchen peninsula at the start of the run only to have it peek back out 3/4s of the way in that run because of the twist.
My point exactly.
bcause of the twist and the fact that thos nails arent hitting anything but drywall. lol thats why hes angling them in opposing directions. i thought this video was supposed to show us HOW to do something. not how NOT to.
I dont like that no studs were located and just nail into drywall
Finally someone who knows what they are doing
Opposite they do not know how to cut transition piece and hence they are twisting crown.
This method is cheating the natural angle that the crown would normally be at against the wall. You're rotating it so that the top of the molding is getting set back some.
To me, this only works IF the rake of the vault isn't too steep. I would really like to know what the angle of the vault is in this video. If you're installing crown molding
(which is only ornamental - not structural)) in a modest home, and you snap it in, and you're not comparing it to The Biltmore Hotel, then this would work great !
Dang, sure wish that I had seen this a year ago!! Gonna try this technique out tomorrow in my kitchen (been putting it off lol)
I agree with this method as I just finished another house today using the same method. Walls and ceilings can be so crooked I like to use TP 10 glue to pre glue niches and pockets. Molding stays straight when the walls and ceilings aren't. Just some caulking to fill the gaps. I know its a real surprise that walls are not flat in a house. ANY house.
Nice helpful video.
what the angles on break for the pitch and angle for the miter per slope 3-9/12.... different crown different angles. or how about a cafert ceiling without hips?
do you work in california? I need some crown moulding.
This is a good technique for painted crown I see comments on the nailing,, he is nailing it correctly by angling nails at opposing angles , this creates a v shaped wedge and will never come out. Good info but, probably not for severe pitches and stained crown