Honestly as much as I'm an ardent Bungie-era fan that has long since abandoned any notion of the franchise actually returning to form and becoming good, this is a pretty good review and I can fully appreciate you taking an approach that's much more fair to 343. I also don't disagree with you on ranking Infinite over Reach since - in terms of gameplay mechanics - the latter was definitely much more 'experimental' while Infinite was more a synthesis of Bungie's genius and current industry trends. I also appreciate you actually acknowledging the writing faults of Infinite instead of gushing over the pilot's mental breakdown moment, while also highlighting some actually good moments between Chief and Weapon, which nobody ever brings up and always point towards campy NPC dialogue. I don't think *enough* UA-camrs call out the absolutely abysmal writing of 343. Not even in terms of consistency with Bungie lore, but 343's overt reliance on external media to even understand the plot of the games, and the tendency of the fandom to try to excuse them by pushing fan theories in order to dismiss plot holes and lazy stories. It's kind of been a running joke that Halo lore channels will just *gush* over the smallest content drops and preaching on how they will contribute to the story and save the franchise. If you've ever watched Andy Bunker Dweller's Halo videos, he does a pretty good job of highlighting a lot of 343's shitty business practices especially with how they're running Infinite (which IMO is still relevant) and how the fandom absolutely deserves this treatment especially with their tendency to dismiss and forgive everything 343 does. It's made me realize it's no longer a franchise I can support, and the best thing 343 did was push MCC onto PC so I can stick to older games.
Thank you for the kind words. I don't want to pick a side and say these games are terrible, but I also don't want to claim them as the best thing ever. They all have pros and cons, and identifying them is only fair. I do prefer the bungie games overall but I won't completely turn my back on the franchise. I was 4 when Halo CE came out and I couldn't even get my hands around the Duke, so Halo means a lot to me :)
@@JSilv3rOh no that's understandable and I have a similar story with Halo in my life. I just can't support the franchise on the level of principles especially since Infinite seems to be an escalation in a lot of the predatory and incompetent business practices and anti-consumer trends infesting the industry (i.e. lying about certain features until weeks before release, employees mocking fans and consumers for concerns surrounding technical issues, armor coatings, relying on contractors to the point of building irreperable technical debt, releasing blatantly false dev notes and roadmaps). Funny enough it was 343's inheritance of the IP that taught me to be very wary if who controls and takes the reigns of a franchise.
Good job on this video I was entertained throughout the video. I love how you have a sarcastic humor like at 2:37 and 8:58 were you joke about your mistake and again at 27:30 and to me it really enhances your personality
Man who would have guessed that naming a studio after a character that betrays you throughout the series should have been a warning. Unfortunately we didn't price it together.
Basically I would bump Reach up to the Number 2 slot, never played 5 or infinite after 4 came out the way it did, watched their campaigns and can say don't like the story. Nothing 343i actually did felt like it continued off of the OT, more like a new story based off of Halo that it many places felt like it was mocking the Originals rather than paying tribute. Nice shoutout to C3 SaberTooth
I just suddenly realized: why are we giving 343 Industries so much leeway with Halo 4? Just because they asked us nicely, and told us it was their first game? We don't give other video game companies that sort of slack.
I still have to give first place to CE since its weapon sandbox was so close to perfect, only the needler could have needed some love. + great multiplayer map design all around apart one single map. + the most fun multiplayer that is still played today. And the mod tools gave us so much great stuff from the modding community. Halo 3 gets second place for me, great all around package, the first 3 missions feel kinda pointless story wise or could have been made into one single mission and the level Cortana was so bad it made The Library feel like a great level. While it got a bunch of great new weapons, there are a bunch that are just too weak. It had a great multiplayer and most of the maps were great too, and it got the vehicles finally back into a better state after what Halo 2 did to them. ODST in 3. place since it's got a better sandbox version of Halo 3, and the feeling and atmosphere of this game was just great, but it really needed its own multiplayer not only firefight. I give 4. place to Halo 2 purely for its great storytelling, gameplay felt pretty meh to me compared to CE & 3, and multiplayer turned into BR & sniper only, unless you wanted to camp in a room with a sword or rocket launcher, which was so boring. Also, the vehicles - the Warthog didn't feel any fun to drive any more, the banshee was just a downgrade to CE, the tank lost all of it's AOE, turning it basically into a big sniper without a zoom and the ghost did fall apart by looking at it xD 5. & 6 place is a hard one cause custom games wise - Halo Reach was a great sandbox ones you removed the bloom, sprint, dodge, jetpack, active camo and armour lock. forge was also great, but forge multiplayer maps are boring because everything has the same colour and metal everywhere. Invasion was a great game mode and the basically only mode that was fun with Reach's standard settings, but the few maps for it and the fact that most of Reach's standard maps suck made it boring fast. I know a lot of people like the Story, but it could have been so much better if they had stuck to the lore, Frank Retcon-nor already had too much power over the story of Halo Reach... but with how it is now, I only like 2 missions out of the whole story and Noble Team are so basic characters I felt sadder about the dead of some of the marines that you had with you in CE - 3 since some of those had more character than Noble Team. While Infinite's (if we ignore the technical issues it still has after years) regular multiplayer now is in some ways better and in some ways worse than Reach, like most of the remake maps are great and that part of the sandbox that is "useable" feels better than in Reach, while on the other side it got the worst frag-grenades in the series which bounces of everything like a bouncy ball no matter where and how you throw it xD also kinda low damage for a grenade, Infinite's own maps suck too and of course the part of the sandbox that is not worth picking up is just sad + that you run through enemies is just dumb. Story feels like it was CE cut off at the silent cartographer without a beach fight (and with pretty annoying hp sponge bosses instead) xD so pretty useless, but it could lead to something better in Halo 7 i guess xD so guess Infinite in 5 and Reach in 6 after all Halo wars 1 in Place 7 and the rest doesn't matter to me xD
I may be (basically) a 343 shill lmao, but here’s my response that is over 4000 characters long. It’s both some agreeing, and some disagreeing, but I felt I should tell you I quite enjoyed it and it was a very fair criticism of 343’s games, if occasionally missing some context. In my opinion, the story suffers overall from the chronic abandonment of storylines because a handful of fans who will never like anything 343 makes are always crying and whining over and over again that the story is shallow and bad, meanwhile drooling over how cool and awesome and the objectively best Halo 3 is, which is in my opinion, by FAR Bungie’s weakest story (And gameplay, for other reasons. Big Halo CE and H2 enjoyer right here, though Arbiter’s levels are definitely not as good as Chief’s), no thanks to Halo 2 burnout and a skeleton crew getting to do what they want with it. There are some strengths to the stories of Halo 4, 5, HW2, and Halo Infinite (Campaign and 3 seasons of Multiplayer plus the Waypoint Chronicles), but they also suffer a decent amount of drawbacks as well. In response to some Halo 4 notes, I believe “Covenant,” probably referred to any Covenant surviving not on the Keyship, since it has been established that some groups broke off from Truth to totally do his bidding like a Chieftan we meet in a book as he controls some Sharquoi. The Ark keeping an “almost finished Halo at all times,” was most likely misunderstood by Professor Anders, as it’s not very clear how long it takes to produce a Halo, as the end of Halo CE to the reveal of Installation 08 (Or 04b if you’d prefer) is roughly 2 months. I doubt even the Forerunner technology at the Ark is capable of producing an entire Halo in around 2 months, so a limited shell is probably kept at all times, as the Ark built the Halo seen in Halo Wars 2 between the destruction of Installation 08 (December 2552) and the events of Halo Wars 2 (March 2559). Of course this is influenced by the damage done by I08 falling apart and damaging the Ark on activation, but it’s a weird complicated question of how Halos are built. For the response to H5, the premature end of Spartan Ops absolutely hurt it. Abandoned again because fans didn’t like the story. Many of the threads started there end abruptly in Halo 5, such as the threat of Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant (Which accidentally makes a kind of interesting case study on small cults that try to emulate the religion they are based off but ultimately die with the original leader), starting trying to move on from Chief (on account of Steve Downes growing older) VERY heavily. Also Halo CE to Halo 2 there is a book, but it’s not necessary to understand the story. I would give Bungie props if they went “Hey Johnson, tell me about that first strike people are talking about.” On the Master Chief jittery thumb, that was purposeful as he slides his thumb over his AI port. Anyway. Game does interesting things but has glaring story issues. What can I say, should have gone with the original idea of the Reclaimer Saga being Chief vs Didact for 3 games, the latter 2 Chief struggling with the loss of Cortana and becoming well, human versus being a machine ( Like the Didact). Halo Wars 2 was cool and accidentally started more things than was thought, but Halo Infinite was the start of the story, but they didn’t continue it (yet). I do enjoy the character dynamics between Chief and the other characters, but the game suffers from not only being shipped unfinished, but only being about 1/3 of the full story. I like it. It’s just left unfinished. The Multiplayer on the other hand got the Spartan Ops treatment. It’ll probably be resolved in a new comic line where your Spartan just wears generic armor or something like that. I also don’t like the implication Blue Team is dead. Or even Locke. Blue Team got redeployed before the game and there’s some line about Locke getting beat but only his armor is taken or something. On the Endless, it’s both an interesting new concept and incredibly stupid. The threat of the Endless/Xalanyn seems to be related to the Forerunners for the Forerunners, that being Precursors. The Endless are implied to be connected to the Precursors in some sense with the Harbinger quoting the Gravemind, who is based off the Primordial who was a Precursor-Flood Hybrid and kinda the Gravemind. The book Halo: The Rubicon Protocol is very good though because it fills the gap pretty neatly.
Thanks for the long response, also glad you enjoyed the video. I do have some response to parts of your comment. The Covenant part, I think is a misinterpretation of the story in Halo 3. Frank O'connor in an interview was talking about how the covenant and the humans had an alliance to defeat the flood, when in reality in halo 3, the humans and flood had a temporary alliance to defeat the covenant. I think this is where the whole covenant alliance thing might stem from, and where the retconning part I mention comes into play. This kinda leads into the next point of the almost finished ring, where it's another misinterpretation from the events of Halo 3 with 04B. Frankie say that ring as almost finished and decided to spin the conversation that the Ark always has an almost completed ring. You also mention that Halo 5 wanted to kind of move away from the Chief because of Steve getting older, they already have another character in Jerome from HW2, and have him carry the mantle for the next view games with the assistance of the arbiter with Keith David. Creating a new character and introducing him to directly oppose Chief was a horrible idea imo. You also said how Chief's jittery thumb is purposeful, it isn't. It may be for the scene, but 343's games have lots of visual hiccups. Halo 4, the cutscenes of chief and cortana at the cartographer, switching between camera angles isn't seamless. There are a couple frames where it shows random zoomed in or blurry shots of chief or their environment before ending on the next shot (you may be able to notice it in the video). In halo 5's opening, a closeup of Tanaka's face is also very jittery. Paying infinite, the guns you are holding in your hands, the parts that move (The BR's Bolt, shotguns's drum etc.) are always jittering and shaking. I didn't show this in the video because I wasn't sure how clear it would translate to UA-cam. The jittery thumb was just the most obvious example of it. I also agree that all 3 games should've been chief versus didact, not because I think he could carry being the bad guy for so long, but just to stick to an idea. Every game introduces idea's just to throw them all away, which you mention a few times in your comment. The Locke idea of his armour being stolen, I could've sworn there was a toy that showed Locke in like a survivalist type of outfit. Like wearing rags and beat up clothes, no helmet. This would make sense, and was probably planned for infinite (just like sanghelios was) but I couldn't find the example online so I left it out of the video. Your other thoughts on the harbinger quoting the gravemind because they are all descendants of each other I also heavily agree with. I don't mind having a new faction to fight, just calling them worse than the flood really bothered me. In the halo universe there is absolutely nothing worse than the flood. They are the whole reason the rings were built in the first place. Again, thank you for the comment. You do seem to be a 343 defender but you make solid points and presented them in a thoughtful and open-minded manner. I love comments like this. Have a great day and take care.
@@JSilv3r thank you for the kind response! I would say on some topics there are definitely glaring issues (Jittery objects for sure, I have spent a lot of time just standing in Infinite’s campaign to listen to the ambient music), I have a shopping list of complaints about Infinite which I have at the end, and Frankie has had a… questionable impact on the franchise. I do defend 343 a lot, but I also do get quite annoyed with their lackluster releases, moving on to new projects once something starts picking up steam, and fully falling victim to the Halo Cycle. The truce line has admittedly always bothered me to some extent. The Covenant fell in H3, and the official treaty was signed by the “main” separatist faction, but even then, plenty of Elites did not want to join the Arbiter and also continue the Covenant (See Ghosts of Onyx, first 2 books of the Kilo-5 trilogy haha) I guess a better line could be “I thought we had a truce with the Elites,” because that could be chalked up to Chief not quite knowing the full extent of the factions within the fractured Covenant, but wasn’t chosen annoyingly. One positive, however, is I like the idea that Forerunners and Humans being separate but “related,” (Funny enough, the Librarian is oddly human for a Forerunner) It’s an interesting concept, as post-war Humanity must grapple with its newfound shaky position in the galaxy… until Cortana showed up… but the idea of most of the UNSC striving for peace and collaboration, mostly unknowingly not repeating the mistakes that led the Forerunners to their destruction, but on the other hand ONI’s goals of basically human supremacy going in the face of that and fully embrace that Foreruner idea of one species above all, and the struggle between light and dark humanity would have to face. It’s a bit deeper than “Oh look humanity were the Forerunners and chose to devolve themselves to be equals! Isn’t it ironic that the Covenant would attack their gods,” and lends better to a long-term story of how do the inheritors the leftovers of a galactic civilization act with this knowledge. Oh also Frankie wrote the Halo 3 terminals, so there’s that. At least we got Mendicant Bias and Offensive Bias from it. On the Halo bit, there’s definitely some level of “preparation,” in case one fails for whatever reason, but I don’t think 2 months is enough time to build a 10,000km diameter galactic-scale death ring. Otherwise yeah, the assembly process of a Halo is quite murky and I don’t think most people take Professor Anders’ words as fact. Also establishing the Submonitors has to make one ask why I04 or I05 didn’t have them. That’s a major plot hole. Final bit on Jerome, in Halo Wars 1 he basically had no personality. Halo Wars 2 definitely (for once instead of abandoning another story avenue) took fan feedback on Locke, and they then looked at preexisting characters and projects they had going, and that’s most likely where Jerome’s portrayal in Halo Wars 2 comes from. I think he is definitely the perfect next Master Chief once Steve Downes retires from the role or passes away. Also that Locke toy is from the series featuring Locke we don’t talk about and about 5 people watched all the way through. I guess the Endless are a threat worse than the Flood in one sense, but otherwise it feels like a line written one way but is supposed to mean another. You only can get that interpretation by reading into stuff though, which that complaint comes down to an issue people have with media literacy as a whole. If they somehow got infected who knows if a Halo could “kill” the infected body. It also seems to moreso be a hollow threat. The Endless seem to be a threat not because of the harm they may cause openly, but because of the threat a seemingly technologically advanced civilization that survived the Halos may pose to Forerunner plans. Otherwise yeah I do realize as I play that 343 games do lack polish Bungie’s games have for the most part. Be it the jittering, story abandonment issues when fans say “We don’t like this,” and a variety of story gripes and gameplay mechanic gripes. Bungie’s games are much more consistent experiences, if sometimes not my favorite. I will also say my rankings of Halo games have changed a lot over the years but upon a deep dive back into Halo CE, 2, and 3, I’d probably go like this: Halo CE/Infinite tied for 1st Place*, ODST for 2nd, H2 for 3rd, H4 for 4th H3 for 5th, H:R for 6th, H5 for 7th. *Halo Infinite at launch comes in at 8th. HW/Spartan games go unranked because I’m just not super into RTS and I haven’t played the 2 Spartan games, though both have amazing soundtracks. Tom Salta should definitely come back to compose for Halo again. In terms of why I rank stuff where, Halo CE just has some of the best gameplay in the series. Everything feels like it has some sort of purpose to why it is that way. Halo Infinite feels for the most part like a modernization and expansion on the Halo CE gameplay formula, if lacking at times. I’d dare say the equipment is more fun than in H3, but also suffers from lack of neutral equipment. Halo 2 recently has really grown on me, the story is definitely the best in the franchise. ODST feels like it gets the human part of the sandbox slightly better than base H3. I feel like experimenting with weapon combos more since the Battle Rifle doesn’t exist. Also the second best story in the franchise, and it gave us Firefight. Halo 4 may not be the best game in the franchise, but the story is quite nice. I just wish they had focused more on Chief and Cortana’s relationship, and Halo 5 could really focus on the threat of the Didact and be a full character study of him vs Chief. Maybe even still have Blue Team in it. Halo 3 has gone up, because while it’s not my favorite I do recognize the many good merits it has, but the multiplayer gameplay is not enjoyable for me and the story is not of the quality of Bungie’s other Halo games. Halo: Reach has both aged well and not well. Going back I’m astonished at how every Forge map is on one canvas and is just overwhelmingly gray. The best features are definitely the Falcon, Grenade Launcher, and Invasion gamemode. The campaign going back is diverse, and revising Sword Base feels like a proper reinterpretation of Keyes. But on the other hand, Reach also has difficultly for no reason parts like sped up Elite melees, Focus Rifle being great against you and awful against enemies, and a 2010s modern gritty FPS color palette that washes otherwise beautiful scenery out. Halo 5 is well, Halo 5. It was the first game I owned and holds a place in my heart but it’s just a frustrating game, but simultaneously not really. I mean at least in Halo Infinite you don’t have every single piece of customization constantly locked behind a paywall for 90% filler lookalike armor, which you can get 3 separate times. Infinite also has a bit of something for everybody. You like Reach armor? We got (almost) all of it, plus new stuff as well because we can. You like goofy Halo 5 armor? Mirage and Chimera are for you. Do you like edgy armor? Rakshasa has your back. Hayabusa lover? An entire array of armor now for you. There’s also Dieselpunk, and the “future,” of Halo’s old armor brought up to the new by Mark VII. Mark IV is also arriving soon enough. Here’s where I go on my Halo Infinite rant though. Infinite was pretty bad at launch. Like good god it was bad. It’s gotten better but somehow launched worse than Halo 5. I mean BTB was broken for what, a month? With only 3 maps to play on anyway? Custom Game settings arrived way too late, as did Infection and other returning gamemodes. I do like their different takes utilizing Infinite’s sandbox, but they are also lacking at times. Challenges used to be a total nightmare. Proud owner of the Sacrifice Nameplate here (Win SEVENTEEN whole games of PvP in the first few weeks of the game). Or how about Forge dropping almost a year later, and still having odd issues in it like slightly off-angle objects, and the Forerunner palette still lacking a properly scaled hallway object for doorways and the like. Or how about 2/3 of the campaign being cut? Or how about the contract worker system (technically Microsoft’s fault), or how much filler is in basically every pass even now? I looked back at the Season 3 event Mindfall. You know how many filler items it had with a 10 tier pass? 2, but also really only 1. There was a backdrop like most passes have, and a visor, which is the best “filler” they have. They could drop a pass that has 2 full armor sets, but half of each pass now is just filler now because there can only be 10 actual rewards. Anyway. Infinite rant over. I do hope that does shed some light on what I think about the Halo games. I’m truly passionate about them and I’m happy they still release (It’s better than being abandonware on the 360 or maybe Xbox One and being backwards compatible), but there’s definitely a distinct difference between the earlier and later titles, for better and worse. Now would like this in MLA format size 12 font Times New Roman double space?
@SpartanNat well said. It still kinda shocks me that you rank Halo 3 so low. I really love that game, large part probably due to nostalgia, but I still play through it and enjoy basically the entire campaign. The story I think is the weakest of the original 3, but that isn't saying much since CE and 2 have incredibly gripping stories. We do agree that infinite is a great modern take on the franchise as well as it being better than reach. I'm really fascinated to see how the next game turns out, knowing that certain affinity and 343 are working together to create halo 7 in unreal engine 5. Last thing, I kinda like the humans and forerunners being one in the same. It was really Frankie who chose to separate them. With him being gone, will they choose to continue that separation or find a way to make them closer related? That's my biggest question so far. We'll have to wait and see.
@@JSilv3r in terms of how I think of the ranking, Halo 3 is absolutely a stellar game, and rankings 2-5 very much change on what I play. Halo 3 may jump up to 2nd because of gameplay, sometimes the story really annoys me and it drops down. In terms of Forerunners and humans, recent-ish 343 books have basically gone “Uh yeah, Forerunners are like, humanity’s generic cousin because of the Precursors cutting out of a common cloth,” which I think is a good enough compromise considering how stuff was rewritten. They even took that retcon of the genesong being why humans can do Forerunner stuff into also being present in Forerunners, Chief in point being it’s why the Librarian liked humans. I’d recommend reading the 3 Rion Forge books, they’re basically Forerunner Saga books 4 and 5 once you get past the novella, and work well to continue/end certain plot points from the Forerunner Saga.
@@SpartanNat Apologies for butting in and for possibly seeming hostile, this is a genuine question but does stuff like the genesong not seem... lazy to you? I get that it's nice having explanations for everything but personally at least I'd rather have explanations that have effort put into lining up with the rest of the franchise instead of just suddenly introducing new details and concepts that don't match up at all with what the original writers put down. Plus it just makes the whole detail about Humans being the only species able to fully interact with Forerunner tech very... disappointing.
Honestly as much as I'm an ardent Bungie-era fan that has long since abandoned any notion of the franchise actually returning to form and becoming good, this is a pretty good review and I can fully appreciate you taking an approach that's much more fair to 343. I also don't disagree with you on ranking Infinite over Reach since - in terms of gameplay mechanics - the latter was definitely much more 'experimental' while Infinite was more a synthesis of Bungie's genius and current industry trends. I also appreciate you actually acknowledging the writing faults of Infinite instead of gushing over the pilot's mental breakdown moment, while also highlighting some actually good moments between Chief and Weapon, which nobody ever brings up and always point towards campy NPC dialogue.
I don't think *enough* UA-camrs call out the absolutely abysmal writing of 343. Not even in terms of consistency with Bungie lore, but 343's overt reliance on external media to even understand the plot of the games, and the tendency of the fandom to try to excuse them by pushing fan theories in order to dismiss plot holes and lazy stories. It's kind of been a running joke that Halo lore channels will just *gush* over the smallest content drops and preaching on how they will contribute to the story and save the franchise.
If you've ever watched Andy Bunker Dweller's Halo videos, he does a pretty good job of highlighting a lot of 343's shitty business practices especially with how they're running Infinite (which IMO is still relevant) and how the fandom absolutely deserves this treatment especially with their tendency to dismiss and forgive everything 343 does. It's made me realize it's no longer a franchise I can support, and the best thing 343 did was push MCC onto PC so I can stick to older games.
Thank you for the kind words. I don't want to pick a side and say these games are terrible, but I also don't want to claim them as the best thing ever. They all have pros and cons, and identifying them is only fair. I do prefer the bungie games overall but I won't completely turn my back on the franchise. I was 4 when Halo CE came out and I couldn't even get my hands around the Duke, so Halo means a lot to me :)
@@JSilv3rOh no that's understandable and I have a similar story with Halo in my life. I just can't support the franchise on the level of principles especially since Infinite seems to be an escalation in a lot of the predatory and incompetent business practices and anti-consumer trends infesting the industry (i.e. lying about certain features until weeks before release, employees mocking fans and consumers for concerns surrounding technical issues, armor coatings, relying on contractors to the point of building irreperable technical debt, releasing blatantly false dev notes and roadmaps).
Funny enough it was 343's inheritance of the IP that taught me to be very wary if who controls and takes the reigns of a franchise.
Dont worrie, none of this 343 stuff is canon, Cheeks is still drifting through space.
Cheeks? 😂
Facts bro. I've been saying that for years
Good job on this video I was entertained throughout the video. I love how you have a sarcastic humor like at 2:37 and 8:58 were you joke about your mistake and again at 27:30 and to me it really enhances your personality
😂 haha thank you. Wanted to leave in a couple bloopers, thought it would make it a little fun. Thank you for watching 🙏
The only guy in the whole world that liked the Watchers. LOL!
Nice video though! :)
@@MacBamboocha 😂 thank you lol
Man who would have guessed that naming a studio after a character that betrays you throughout the series should have been a warning. Unfortunately we didn't price it together.
Basically I would bump Reach up to the Number 2 slot, never played 5 or infinite after 4 came out the way it did, watched their campaigns and can say don't like the story. Nothing 343i actually did felt like it continued off of the OT, more like a new story based off of Halo that it many places felt like it was mocking the Originals rather than paying tribute. Nice shoutout to C3 SaberTooth
Honestly Your Review/Take On 343i Games Is Much More Well "Nicer" Compare To Others I Saw On UA-cam
I sse what you mean. People act like these are the worst games ever when they're really just comparing them to the original trilogy
Good work man awesome video👍
Thank you 🙏
49:37 WHAAAAATTTT????
Halo ended in 2010
I just suddenly realized: why are we giving 343 Industries so much leeway with Halo 4? Just because they asked us nicely, and told us it was their first game? We don't give other video game companies that sort of slack.
There are definitely some apologists, but I feel like most people are giving them lots of shit lol
I still have to give first place to CE since its weapon sandbox was so close to perfect, only the needler could have needed some love. + great multiplayer map design all around apart one single map. + the most fun multiplayer that is still played today. And the mod tools gave us so much great stuff from the modding community.
Halo 3 gets second place for me, great all around package, the first 3 missions feel kinda pointless story wise or could have been made into one single mission and the level Cortana was so bad it made The Library feel like a great level. While it got a bunch of great new weapons, there are a bunch that are just too weak. It had a great multiplayer and most of the maps were great too, and it got the vehicles finally back into a better state after what Halo 2 did to them.
ODST in 3. place since it's got a better sandbox version of Halo 3, and the feeling and atmosphere of this game was just great, but it really needed its own multiplayer not only firefight.
I give 4. place to Halo 2 purely for its great storytelling, gameplay felt pretty meh to me compared to CE & 3, and multiplayer turned into BR & sniper only, unless you wanted to camp in a room with a sword or rocket launcher, which was so boring. Also, the vehicles - the Warthog didn't feel any fun to drive any more, the banshee was just a downgrade to CE, the tank lost all of it's AOE, turning it basically into a big sniper without a zoom and the ghost did fall apart by looking at it xD
5. & 6 place is a hard one cause custom games wise - Halo Reach was a great sandbox ones you removed the bloom, sprint, dodge, jetpack, active camo and armour lock. forge was also great, but forge multiplayer maps are boring because everything has the same colour and metal everywhere. Invasion was a great game mode and the basically only mode that was fun with Reach's standard settings, but the few maps for it and the fact that most of Reach's standard maps suck made it boring fast. I know a lot of people like the Story, but it could have been so much better if they had stuck to the lore, Frank Retcon-nor already had too much power over the story of Halo Reach... but with how it is now, I only like 2 missions out of the whole story and Noble Team are so basic characters I felt sadder about the dead of some of the marines that you had with you in CE - 3 since some of those had more character than Noble Team.
While Infinite's (if we ignore the technical issues it still has after years) regular multiplayer now is in some ways better and in some ways worse than Reach, like most of the remake maps are great and that part of the sandbox that is "useable" feels better than in Reach, while on the other side it got the worst frag-grenades in the series which bounces of everything like a bouncy ball no matter where and how you throw it xD also kinda low damage for a grenade, Infinite's own maps suck too and of course the part of the sandbox that is not worth picking up is just sad + that you run through enemies is just dumb. Story feels like it was CE cut off at the silent cartographer without a beach fight (and with pretty annoying hp sponge bosses instead) xD so pretty useless, but it could lead to something better in Halo 7 i guess xD
so guess Infinite in 5 and Reach in 6 after all
Halo wars 1 in Place 7 and the rest doesn't matter to me xD
"I took a college course in sound design so I think can use a critical ear" is so reddit coded 😂
@@JohnB-im3eu can you timestamp when I said that?
no...halo 1 to 2 had a book
You’re right. I stand corrected
dangriox 😂
I may be (basically) a 343 shill lmao, but here’s my response that is over 4000 characters long. It’s both some agreeing, and some disagreeing, but I felt I should tell you I quite enjoyed it and it was a very fair criticism of 343’s games, if occasionally missing some context.
In my opinion, the story suffers overall from the chronic abandonment of storylines because a handful of fans who will never like anything 343 makes are always crying and whining over and over again that the story is shallow and bad, meanwhile drooling over how cool and awesome and the objectively best Halo 3 is, which is in my opinion, by FAR Bungie’s weakest story (And gameplay, for other reasons. Big Halo CE and H2 enjoyer right here, though Arbiter’s levels are definitely not as good as Chief’s), no thanks to Halo 2 burnout and a skeleton crew getting to do what they want with it. There are some strengths to the stories of Halo 4, 5, HW2, and Halo Infinite (Campaign and 3 seasons of Multiplayer plus the Waypoint Chronicles), but they also suffer a decent amount of drawbacks as well.
In response to some Halo 4 notes, I believe “Covenant,” probably referred to any Covenant surviving not on the Keyship, since it has been established that some groups broke off from Truth to totally do his bidding like a Chieftan we meet in a book as he controls some Sharquoi. The Ark keeping an “almost finished Halo at all times,” was most likely misunderstood by Professor Anders, as it’s not very clear how long it takes to produce a Halo, as the end of Halo CE to the reveal of Installation 08 (Or 04b if you’d prefer) is roughly 2 months. I doubt even the Forerunner technology at the Ark is capable of producing an entire Halo in around 2 months, so a limited shell is probably kept at all times, as the Ark built the Halo seen in Halo Wars 2 between the destruction of Installation 08 (December 2552) and the events of Halo Wars 2 (March 2559). Of course this is influenced by the damage done by I08 falling apart and damaging the Ark on activation, but it’s a weird complicated question of how Halos are built.
For the response to H5, the premature end of Spartan Ops absolutely hurt it. Abandoned again because fans didn’t like the story. Many of the threads started there end abruptly in Halo 5, such as the threat of Jul ‘Mdama’s Covenant (Which accidentally makes a kind of interesting case study on small cults that try to emulate the religion they are based off but ultimately die with the original leader), starting trying to move on from Chief (on account of Steve Downes growing older) VERY heavily. Also Halo CE to Halo 2 there is a book, but it’s not necessary to understand the story. I would give Bungie props if they went “Hey Johnson, tell me about that first strike people are talking about.” On the Master Chief jittery thumb, that was purposeful as he slides his thumb over his AI port. Anyway. Game does interesting things but has glaring story issues. What can I say, should have gone with the original idea of the Reclaimer Saga being Chief vs Didact for 3 games, the latter 2 Chief struggling with the loss of Cortana and becoming well, human versus being a machine ( Like the Didact).
Halo Wars 2 was cool and accidentally started more things than was thought, but
Halo Infinite was the start of the story, but they didn’t continue it (yet). I do enjoy the character dynamics between Chief and the other characters, but the game suffers from not only being shipped unfinished, but only being about 1/3 of the full story. I like it. It’s just left unfinished. The Multiplayer on the other hand got the Spartan Ops treatment. It’ll probably be resolved in a new comic line where your Spartan just wears generic armor or something like that. I also don’t like the implication Blue Team is dead. Or even Locke. Blue Team got redeployed before the game and there’s some line about Locke getting beat but only his armor is taken or something. On the Endless, it’s both an interesting new concept and incredibly stupid. The threat of the Endless/Xalanyn seems to be related to the Forerunners for the Forerunners, that being Precursors. The Endless are implied to be connected to the Precursors in some sense with the Harbinger quoting the Gravemind, who is based off the Primordial who was a Precursor-Flood Hybrid and kinda the Gravemind. The book Halo: The Rubicon Protocol is very good though because it fills the gap pretty neatly.
Thanks for the long response, also glad you enjoyed the video. I do have some response to parts of your comment.
The Covenant part, I think is a misinterpretation of the story in Halo 3. Frank O'connor in an interview was talking about how the covenant and the humans had an alliance to defeat the flood, when in reality in halo 3, the humans and flood had a temporary alliance to defeat the covenant. I think this is where the whole covenant alliance thing might stem from, and where the retconning part I mention comes into play.
This kinda leads into the next point of the almost finished ring, where it's another misinterpretation from the events of Halo 3 with 04B. Frankie say that ring as almost finished and decided to spin the conversation that the Ark always has an almost completed ring.
You also mention that Halo 5 wanted to kind of move away from the Chief because of Steve getting older, they already have another character in Jerome from HW2, and have him carry the mantle for the next view games with the assistance of the arbiter with Keith David. Creating a new character and introducing him to directly oppose Chief was a horrible idea imo.
You also said how Chief's jittery thumb is purposeful, it isn't. It may be for the scene, but 343's games have lots of visual hiccups. Halo 4, the cutscenes of chief and cortana at the cartographer, switching between camera angles isn't seamless. There are a couple frames where it shows random zoomed in or blurry shots of chief or their environment before ending on the next shot (you may be able to notice it in the video). In halo 5's opening, a closeup of Tanaka's face is also very jittery. Paying infinite, the guns you are holding in your hands, the parts that move (The BR's Bolt, shotguns's drum etc.) are always jittering and shaking. I didn't show this in the video because I wasn't sure how clear it would translate to UA-cam. The jittery thumb was just the most obvious example of it.
I also agree that all 3 games should've been chief versus didact, not because I think he could carry being the bad guy for so long, but just to stick to an idea. Every game introduces idea's just to throw them all away, which you mention a few times in your comment.
The Locke idea of his armour being stolen, I could've sworn there was a toy that showed Locke in like a survivalist type of outfit. Like wearing rags and beat up clothes, no helmet. This would make sense, and was probably planned for infinite (just like sanghelios was) but I couldn't find the example online so I left it out of the video.
Your other thoughts on the harbinger quoting the gravemind because they are all descendants of each other I also heavily agree with. I don't mind having a new faction to fight, just calling them worse than the flood really bothered me. In the halo universe there is absolutely nothing worse than the flood. They are the whole reason the rings were built in the first place.
Again, thank you for the comment. You do seem to be a 343 defender but you make solid points and presented them in a thoughtful and open-minded manner. I love comments like this. Have a great day and take care.
@@JSilv3r thank you for the kind response! I would say on some topics there are definitely glaring issues (Jittery objects for sure, I have spent a lot of time just standing in Infinite’s campaign to listen to the ambient music), I have a shopping list of complaints about Infinite which I have at the end, and Frankie has had a… questionable impact on the franchise. I do defend 343 a lot, but I also do get quite annoyed with their lackluster releases, moving on to new projects once something starts picking up steam, and fully falling victim to the Halo Cycle.
The truce line has admittedly always bothered me to some extent. The Covenant fell in H3, and the official treaty was signed by the “main” separatist faction, but even then, plenty of Elites did not want to join the Arbiter and also continue the Covenant (See Ghosts of Onyx, first 2 books of the Kilo-5 trilogy haha) I guess a better line could be “I thought we had a truce with the Elites,” because that could be chalked up to Chief not quite knowing the full extent of the factions within the fractured Covenant, but wasn’t chosen annoyingly.
One positive, however, is I like the idea that Forerunners and Humans being separate but “related,” (Funny enough, the Librarian is oddly human for a Forerunner) It’s an interesting concept, as post-war Humanity must grapple with its newfound shaky position in the galaxy… until Cortana showed up… but the idea of most of the UNSC striving for peace and collaboration, mostly unknowingly not repeating the mistakes that led the Forerunners to their destruction, but on the other hand ONI’s goals of basically human supremacy going in the face of that and fully embrace that Foreruner idea of one species above all, and the struggle between light and dark humanity would have to face. It’s a bit deeper than “Oh look humanity were the Forerunners and chose to devolve themselves to be equals! Isn’t it ironic that the Covenant would attack their gods,” and lends better to a long-term story of how do the inheritors the leftovers of a galactic civilization act with this knowledge. Oh also Frankie wrote the Halo 3 terminals, so there’s that. At least we got Mendicant Bias and Offensive Bias from it.
On the Halo bit, there’s definitely some level of “preparation,” in case one fails for whatever reason, but I don’t think 2 months is enough time to build a 10,000km diameter galactic-scale death ring. Otherwise yeah, the assembly process of a Halo is quite murky and I don’t think most people take Professor Anders’ words as fact. Also establishing the Submonitors has to make one ask why I04 or I05 didn’t have them. That’s a major plot hole.
Final bit on Jerome, in Halo Wars 1 he basically had no personality. Halo Wars 2 definitely (for once instead of abandoning another story avenue) took fan feedback on Locke, and they then looked at preexisting characters and projects they had going, and that’s most likely where Jerome’s portrayal in Halo Wars 2 comes from. I think he is definitely the perfect next Master Chief once Steve Downes retires from the role or passes away. Also that Locke toy is from the series featuring Locke we don’t talk about and about 5 people watched all the way through.
I guess the Endless are a threat worse than the Flood in one sense, but otherwise it feels like a line written one way but is supposed to mean another. You only can get that interpretation by reading into stuff though, which that complaint comes down to an issue people have with media literacy as a whole. If they somehow got infected who knows if a Halo could “kill” the infected body. It also seems to moreso be a hollow threat. The Endless seem to be a threat not because of the harm they may cause openly, but because of the threat a seemingly technologically advanced civilization that survived the Halos may pose to Forerunner plans.
Otherwise yeah I do realize as I play that 343 games do lack polish Bungie’s games have for the most part. Be it the jittering, story abandonment issues when fans say “We don’t like this,” and a variety of story gripes and gameplay mechanic gripes. Bungie’s games are much more consistent experiences, if sometimes not my favorite. I will also say my rankings of Halo games have changed a lot over the years but upon a deep dive back into Halo CE, 2, and 3, I’d probably go like this: Halo CE/Infinite tied for 1st Place*, ODST for 2nd, H2 for 3rd, H4 for 4th H3 for 5th, H:R for 6th, H5 for 7th. *Halo Infinite at launch comes in at 8th.
HW/Spartan games go unranked because I’m just not super into RTS and I haven’t played the 2 Spartan games, though both have amazing soundtracks. Tom Salta should definitely come back to compose for Halo again. In terms of why I rank stuff where, Halo CE just has some of the best gameplay in the series. Everything feels like it has some sort of purpose to why it is that way. Halo Infinite feels for the most part like a modernization and expansion on the Halo CE gameplay formula, if lacking at times. I’d dare say the equipment is more fun than in H3, but also suffers from lack of neutral equipment. Halo 2 recently has really grown on me, the story is definitely the best in the franchise. ODST feels like it gets the human part of the sandbox slightly better than base H3. I feel like experimenting with weapon combos more since the Battle Rifle doesn’t exist. Also the second best story in the franchise, and it gave us Firefight. Halo 4 may not be the best game in the franchise, but the story is quite nice. I just wish they had focused more on Chief and Cortana’s relationship, and Halo 5 could really focus on the threat of the Didact and be a full character study of him vs Chief. Maybe even still have Blue Team in it. Halo 3 has gone up, because while it’s not my favorite I do recognize the many good merits it has, but the multiplayer gameplay is not enjoyable for me and the story is not of the quality of Bungie’s other Halo games. Halo: Reach has both aged well and not well. Going back I’m astonished at how every Forge map is on one canvas and is just overwhelmingly gray. The best features are definitely the Falcon, Grenade Launcher, and Invasion gamemode. The campaign going back is diverse, and revising Sword Base feels like a proper reinterpretation of Keyes. But on the other hand, Reach also has difficultly for no reason parts like sped up Elite melees, Focus Rifle being great against you and awful against enemies, and a 2010s modern gritty FPS color palette that washes otherwise beautiful scenery out. Halo 5 is well, Halo 5. It was the first game I owned and holds a place in my heart but it’s just a frustrating game, but simultaneously not really. I mean at least in Halo Infinite you don’t have every single piece of customization constantly locked behind a paywall for 90% filler lookalike armor, which you can get 3 separate times. Infinite also has a bit of something for everybody. You like Reach armor? We got (almost) all of it, plus new stuff as well because we can. You like goofy Halo 5 armor? Mirage and Chimera are for you. Do you like edgy armor? Rakshasa has your back. Hayabusa lover? An entire array of armor now for you. There’s also Dieselpunk, and the “future,” of Halo’s old armor brought up to the new by Mark VII. Mark IV is also arriving soon enough.
Here’s where I go on my Halo Infinite rant though. Infinite was pretty bad at launch. Like good god it was bad. It’s gotten better but somehow launched worse than Halo 5. I mean BTB was broken for what, a month? With only 3 maps to play on anyway? Custom Game settings arrived way too late, as did Infection and other returning gamemodes. I do like their different takes utilizing Infinite’s sandbox, but they are also lacking at times. Challenges used to be a total nightmare. Proud owner of the Sacrifice Nameplate here (Win SEVENTEEN whole games of PvP in the first few weeks of the game). Or how about Forge dropping almost a year later, and still having odd issues in it like slightly off-angle objects, and the Forerunner palette still lacking a properly scaled hallway object for doorways and the like. Or how about 2/3 of the campaign being cut? Or how about the contract worker system (technically Microsoft’s fault), or how much filler is in basically every pass even now? I looked back at the Season 3 event Mindfall. You know how many filler items it had with a 10 tier pass? 2, but also really only 1. There was a backdrop like most passes have, and a visor, which is the best “filler” they have. They could drop a pass that has 2 full armor sets, but half of each pass now is just filler now because there can only be 10 actual rewards.
Anyway. Infinite rant over. I do hope that does shed some light on what I think about the Halo games. I’m truly passionate about them and I’m happy they still release (It’s better than being abandonware on the 360 or maybe Xbox One and being backwards compatible), but there’s definitely a distinct difference between the earlier and later titles, for better and worse. Now would like this in MLA format size 12 font Times New Roman double space?
@SpartanNat well said. It still kinda shocks me that you rank Halo 3 so low. I really love that game, large part probably due to nostalgia, but I still play through it and enjoy basically the entire campaign. The story I think is the weakest of the original 3, but that isn't saying much since CE and 2 have incredibly gripping stories. We do agree that infinite is a great modern take on the franchise as well as it being better than reach. I'm really fascinated to see how the next game turns out, knowing that certain affinity and 343 are working together to create halo 7 in unreal engine 5. Last thing, I kinda like the humans and forerunners being one in the same. It was really Frankie who chose to separate them. With him being gone, will they choose to continue that separation or find a way to make them closer related? That's my biggest question so far. We'll have to wait and see.
@@JSilv3r in terms of how I think of the ranking, Halo 3 is absolutely a stellar game, and rankings 2-5 very much change on what I play. Halo 3 may jump up to 2nd because of gameplay, sometimes the story really annoys me and it drops down. In terms of Forerunners and humans, recent-ish 343 books have basically gone “Uh yeah, Forerunners are like, humanity’s generic cousin because of the Precursors cutting out of a common cloth,” which I think is a good enough compromise considering how stuff was rewritten. They even took that retcon of the genesong being why humans can do Forerunner stuff into also being present in Forerunners, Chief in point being it’s why the Librarian liked humans. I’d recommend reading the 3 Rion Forge books, they’re basically Forerunner Saga books 4 and 5 once you get past the novella, and work well to continue/end certain plot points from the Forerunner Saga.
@@SpartanNat Apologies for butting in and for possibly seeming hostile, this is a genuine question but does stuff like the genesong not seem... lazy to you? I get that it's nice having explanations for everything but personally at least I'd rather have explanations that have effort put into lining up with the rest of the franchise instead of just suddenly introducing new details and concepts that don't match up at all with what the original writers put down.
Plus it just makes the whole detail about Humans being the only species able to fully interact with Forerunner tech very... disappointing.