Heavyweight vs Flyweight | The Effect Of Rider Weight On E-Bike Range
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Everyone wants to get the most amount of power from their E-Bike battery, and one of the largest factors that affects battery power is weight. Does a lighter rider actually get much more power and therefore distance from one charge? Jess is 32 kilograms lighter than Steve so on identical setups how much farther could Jess travel on one battery than Steve? We set them the challenge of finding out.
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The two bikes are identical apart from size, both brand new and fully charged. We even made sure that Steve and Jess used the same tyre pressure, and constantly rode at the same cadence and gear in turbo mode. How far could Steve keep up with Jess?
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How far have you managed to go on one charge? Let us know in the comments below ⚡️
66 miles with two loaded panniers (Cardiff to Brecon on the Route 8) and with 26 miles range still showing. But then I do have a dual battery Reisse and Muller Delite.
*Effect
Electric Mountain Bike Network 33 miles max 500Wh, Bosch CX and more weight than Steve 😏
And weather /temperature also has an effect. The warmer it is the better the battery life. I should add that at least 25 miles of my Route 8 66 miles was in the pouring rain.
Fancy McDancy For sure. I just look at my best and worst over my typical ride with a 500Wh battery and Bosch CX. Best is 33 miles and worst 15, so I always have a good idea with a few years electric under my belt of what’s achievable on any given ride. That is until my mate says there’s a charging opportunity and then one discovers it’s closed! Steep climbs without assist are hard work!
Recharge. Swap batteries and repeat.
Idd not all batteries are created equal
Attach a BOB Yak trailer to your e-bike and carry half a dozen batteries. Using the Bosch 1250wh system you could go forever. Just also bring a bunch of chargers and power strips so you can refuel all at once when you finally hit an outlet.
I was surprised but maybe I have the explanation. In the highest assistance level, you both easily reached the maximum power output of the motors. So the battery drain was similar. Tge only advantage for Jess' bike was that sometimes she had to ease up to avoid being too fast. If my theory is correct, then range differences should increase once you reduce assistance levels and you stay far away from top motor power.
This is bang on.
Being in the same gear doesn't mitigate power input (or cadence) between riders with different fitness levels. As this course was quite undulating where the limiter would have regularly been reached, this would have exacerbated this problem.
EMBN actually did a much better (scientificly speaking) a while ago.
ua-cam.com/video/mhBr-A1i3ik/v-deo.html
Nah it still doesn't make much difference even at lower levels with the nice modern ebike and batteries of today.
On a side note the Canyon is a beautiful looking bike.
This was really very good. I'd have liked to see a graph with the distances each of you dropped a bar. It would help to visualize the different rates of battery usage.
Interresting result I would like see the test between bosch and shimano
Shows that terrain has more impact on range than rider weight which is why the last ascent killed the battery so quick leading to the small kilometer difference
i think Steve was investing consistently more watts into every strokes ...this is why at the end of the day the margin was not that big....
Yep, I'm sure he was, however that doesn't mean he was putting in more perceived effort. He is just going to be stronger.
Would not riding the same (similar) cadence not reduce that factor?
It's also down to power/weight. So Steve may have been contributing more overall power, but it was also used to get his greater weight moving.
You guys do a fantastic job, keep up the great work!
Steve must have more powerful legs too so motor and battery is only part of the equation towards work done. Cool to see Jess back again.
I'm not that surprised by this result.
I weight about 78kg, my two friends weight 68kg and 100kg.
We all ride levos or Kenevos and we always finish a ride with about the same battery levels, we're normally only about 1 bar different after a 30 mile ride.
yep this sounds like me , we all ride levo or kenevo and have found the same results
But is the heavier rider pedaling more to keep up?
@@dalewier9735 Is the heavier rider carrying more speed out of the descents before needing to pedal? That's what I think is going on.
@@enduroelite so if the heavier rider uses more going up and MAYBE more on the level he makes it up on the downhill because he carries more speed? I would like to know myself, I weigh 235lbs. (Bikes and ultralights and hanglidders and many other fun things are not often made for 6'1" 235lbs.) I am encouraged by Paul Mcconnell's comment above!
@@dalewier9735 it's about power to weight ratio, obviously if you have more power in your legs you will create more speed regardless of weight,
Campbell from Jamaica, guys ur journey n test were very educational n awesome 4me ,,,,thanks
Short fat dude here. 35 miles on a 2020 Giant Trance E. This was a very interesting video. I would love to see a similar experiment with different bikes/riders. Thank you.
Need some sort of recharge on the down hills, integrating some sort of dynamo to recharge the battery , ride all day
It exists on some bikes, but it's generally considered a failure. Reference term is Regenerative Braking. It's really, really inefficient. 5% return at best for the distance traveled downhill vs what is spent going up the same grade, only works with direct drive eBikes (big, bulky hub motors, not mid and/or geared drive), and creates a lot of waste heat and wear.
Impossible... charging battery takes couple hours you ride down couple minutes..
The good news Steve is you dont need to lose weight and you can pack more snacks 😉
Your presentation skills are excellent Steven. Very compelling videos.
0:32 I don't see any HEAVY riders? I'm a heavy rider!
Chub chub
The battery bars give you a false sense of security. The first 3 bars seem to last well but the last 2 dont. I expect 50km from one battery on typical trails but less on a steep climbing trail.
Wow, Wales rocks :) Great video.
Just keep on riding and riding till the wheels fall off 👍👍👍
Not so strange. Energy formula for lifting is e=mgh 128m*86,6kg*9,8m/s^2=108631J is the energy just for the climb. If the effort of Jess amount of work equals the power to move on a flat road, we could roule out her work, The motor may help up to 300% or nominal 250w. Time left 108631J/250W=434s. Assumed Speed 2400m/434s=5,5 m/s or 20km/h.
not only weight difference, but probaly also fitness level.
so one person could be putting more pressure on the pedals,
and the other one letting the engine do more work
fun video, either way
Great video. I'm really surprised at the results. Pleasantly surprised as I'm on the heavier side 😄
Very interesting video! :) I wouldn't have expected this result! Oh man, I'm more and more intrigued to try an ebike myself, however, I'm afraid I'd never go back!
would be good to see how many laps in eco...
Loved the video, actually enjoyed it
I've lost 13kg since getting my Merida e-160. I was disappointed when my range has only slightly increased and fitness has improved greatly. I can now get back out on my xc bike. Also since watching Chris try to do the 100km loop video,he said something about not getting the full benefit out of the e-bike. I generally ride around in eco mode with short burst of trail or boost. So I decided to use boost mode earlier into the climbs I got to the top of 12km 400+mtr climb with only slightly less battery. But with a lot more energy left in me. I think it would have only been between 5km or 10km less than preserving the battery.
I think you are right Robert. Weight should not make a big difference, which was shown in the video. The fact that Jess was exactly one bar behind for the whole range makes no sense. The difference should have grown over time. There is a physics reason why this is correct. The amount of energy used to ascend is more for the heavier rider, but he also adds more potential gravitational energy when going uphill, which is then released on the way down.
Good comparison, thumbs up.👍
Thanks Frack Black!
A heavier (that is more muscular) person usually has more muscle power available, mitigating the difference in weight I reckon.
Really surprised, thought it'd be a much bigger difference.
As I mentioned in a previous video, my son got another lap up bike park Wales he’s 65kg. He also couldn’t control turbo mode on beast of burden. We are running 2x bosh cx.
Interesting result. One thing you can do (and which has cleared a lot of nonsense out of my head about my Prius) is to just calculate the difference in Potential Energy Gained. Mass x Height (in meters) x gravity (9.8 m/s^2) . So your 30 kg difference x the Extra height climbed should show a substantial difference (30x129x9.8= 37,926 Joules This of course eliminates many factors but does give a very clear result that should give some indication. What it might mean is that either Steve put in more work with his legs during the day (maybe on the climbs) or that Jess's battery has a bit of a problem (which can happen with Lion batteries) because it just conked. A bicycle being on wheels is an interesting machine. Rolling is a huge factor. Also on a slow climb muscles matter. I'm an old guy 60s but I have very strong legs. In any race Jess or her grandmother is going to leave me in the dust. But hauling sacks of concrete up hills I could do all day. So in a cycling race, my legs are just too big and I'm too slow, but on a slow climb, I think I could just crank it out. (I did go on a ride with a bicycle racer, she on her $7000 full suspension, me on my old Fisher with a wretched bottom bracket. I couldn't follow her on any of the bumps, or on the straight aways. Climbing out on a very steep fire road, I kept up with her and just to piss her off I chatted the whole way up. And on a related subject this might be why I like my Biopace, but only notice it on these very slow steep climbs)
That was a great test! It gave a good idea as to what an e-bike can do under different loads. I've been keen to buy an EMTB, but I was concerned about to how far my battery would get me as I'm a heavier rider (129 kilos--no bike--no bag--just me). Your demonstration made me feel more confident about buying one and getting quite a few miles out of it in eco-mode. If you'll excuse me, I need to sign off so I can watch a video about fat burning! LoL Thanks!
Be careful about this test. It's about the work the motor does. Both riders were going at the same pace in the same gear so the motor was doing equal work in both cases. The riders made up the difference. Both needed to generate diffent amounts of work to keep the same speed and cadence. Meaning if both riders had to lift 50% of their body weight, the heavier one is technically moving more weight. What this means is your range will depend on how much effort you give, not the motor. Say the motor gives a constant 30. If you take it easy and let the motor do most of the work and you give a 20 effort you won't go as far compared to a 50 effort. Still, for you and me as heavier riders an ebike can be the difference between being able to ride or not.
ALL BARS are not equal! Voltage (power) drops steadily as the battery runs down. Each "bar" may seem to have 20% of the battery, but actually the top bars CONTAIN (represent) more juice. For he first couple of bars, the batt will be putting out more voltage and more watts, to go further. The lady rode uphill on lowest voltage in the red zone, with much less usable wattage left in the battery than a fresh charge. That's why he RED is ECO mode - full TURBO power is no longer available at low charge (low voltage) levels.
.
great vid try it in trail & lets see the difference in range please .
He has to pedal more, because the support is proportional (for example +200%), so his input is higher. Also in flat terrain the weight does not matter that much, less than aerodynamic.
The only comparison which can be made is when the two were riding together at the same cadence and battery power setting. For Jess on her own there is no comparison for her. Had both been cycling on the flat when Steve ran out, jess would have got considerably more miles on him. So I think the only true comparison is when they were riding together and when Jess was one bar ahead most of the time. So what distance is one bar-who knows? It could be 10 miles on road on the flat even at Turbo boost or single figure kilometers uphill off road. My bike has a 417wh battery, weighs 23.5 kilos and I weigh 70 kilos. In hilly terrain but mostly on road, I have managed almost 60 miles on one charge. But going up a 20% hill with a vertical rise of 300+ feet on turbo takes about 10% out of the battery. Finally, my meter shows in percentage terms exactly how much battery life is left, not just bars which are a bit of a blunt instrument. But very well done for this research.
My local trails i done blue scar in my kenevo few days ago first ever ride on an ebike and my weight is around 170kilos so you can imagine how much battery ill be using but that's why I got an ebike to get back on the trails and loose that weight so maybe I'll see a difference in how long my battery lasts while I loose weight maybe haha. Great vid
need to use fresh battery when you do the "after"
as the cells degrade over time.
Some form of energy return system must be the obvious next step for ebikes. Like we see in e cars already.
and it should be controlled activated, option of downhill activation only lets say.
energy generation from the shock absorbers.
convert vertical motion to DC.
This is what puts me off spending thousands, my self built emtb goes for ever. Beautiful trails these are though.
My daughters and myself went to Forest of Dean on our orbea fs wild Bosch 625 batteries
Riding the verderers trail on emtb mode all the way pedalling fast as possible
We were on the last section when my battery died Katie had 2 bars left
With my back pack I weigh approx 100 kg
She with no backpack(I carry all the spares with me ) approx 57 kg
Verderers trail is around 7 miles I rode around 32 miles I reckon Katie would have done at least another lap around 42 miles
Not a perfect test but much more accurate than Steve’s test
Weight has a massive effect on batttery consumption I feel riding with other people of varying weights has as fitness
Thanks Martyn
Steve putting down more power perhaps
I know this is an oldish Utube but as it seems pretty inconclusive I think the only way to test it is the same rider with different weights. Have you thought about a scuba diver's shot filled weight belt ?
Maybe ankle weights as well....It probably would be a more realistic comparison and you could keep using the amount.......seems to work for racehorses and jockeys.
Great test.
Since she was climbing after he ran out of juice, it's really not much of a comparison. It was an fun and interesting exercise, but not really a test. About the only way to do a test would be to put both bikes in a velodrome or on a dynamo and just run them at the same power and speed until they drop. They didn't say how large the batteries were, either. With larger batteries, the differences would be more acute.
I have a Scott dual suspension with a Bosch Performance line CX with a chip
When I got the bike I was 54kg heavier than I am now
I ride the exact same route everyday
So far the only difference I ever see in relation to the range is due to the wind
It is possible my battery capacity has reduced over the last 3000km
I have had the diagnostic run on it yet, but will do soon
It would be interesting to see the results on a flat surface or at least with no downhill. I guess that a heavier rider may gain more momentum on the downhill section especially if you have regeneration on the break system. However it could be that if one person is stronger they may be helping the motor more in the pedal sections.
The ultimate test would be a flat track without pedaling. Thanks for sharing :)
But tire pressure should be proportional to weight to make it equal
Yea
@@th_js hi again
@@jh5325 Hi 😂
Was just about to post the same thing.
louiscormier12 air pressure wasn’t even for each riders weight
Don't you mean the "effect" in your title?
They don't do English very well. Haha!!!
The bike motor engages more often with the heavier rider to maintain the same speed. That's a good amount of Offroad distance. The American ebikes get more distance I feel. I get 50 prairie path miles in PAS2 with 25-35% battery remaining.
I get 15 miles and 3500 feet of climbing on trail mode and rider weight 65kg. Merida eone-sixty. but from seeing others on the same bike, the difference of 10% looks about right.
Interesting result.
Almost never use boost mode on my Haibike, comparing that to last couple of season when I quite often used boost mode. This year I ride faster, further and more difficult terrain while exceeding previous seasons range.Yup, lost over 20% of my body weight due to injuries, dual surgery of hernia problems and focusing on dropping weight.
Climbing is fun now, crashing more often is somewhat dumb but since I go so much faster and ride more often i guess it´s what it is. Weight has a huge impact from what I experienced.
My wife drives with 504wh I drive 700wh
My wife 61kg me 89kg
It evens it out
Brand new bikes levo 2019
And yes they are a bit more noisy then the 2018 models
In red eco o reckon weight makes more of a difference on climbs as you're not putting the same pressure and torque down. More weight/torque would require less assistance
I think the test should be done in an adaptive assistance mode, but both riders riding together. This way the power drain on the battery will be much more varied due to the motor assistance required from the different rider weight and fitness. in boost mode the motor is always offering max power so the drain on the battery will me much similar.. as seen in the video..
Steve what size of bike do you use for this spectral Canyon? honestly I thought you could do a few more kilometers ... they seem really very few !!! congratulations for the video ... thanks
Try a medium mode. In top assist the bike pulls you along as long as you’re pedaling. I have a feeling he pushed harder than she did up hills. A lower assist mode would have caused more of a speed difference if he was pushing harder. But, interesting. I love these experiments.
leg strength and weight pushing down on pedals both indicate that perhaps the male bike's motor had less battery drain due to aforementioned torque variables.
Not sure how far Steve travelled after the bike hit eco mode, that has to make a difference because Jess was in boost mode until her battery went flat (no eco mode). I think steve had slight advantage that his bike dropped to eco so he could travel farther, where as Jess was probably on a hill when her battery went flat.
It is normal, the pattern an the width of your tire is way more crucial, than the total weight.
I think markotrieste is on too it. When I ride in eco mode I am putting in full muscle power. By that I mean eco does not give enough power and I most supplement the power quite a bit. In Turbo I am just putting in just enough effort to make the bike sustain the flat or trail. On a steep climb, is the only time I can use the full power of Turbo. I can ride 15 miles, ascend 1600 ft, all in ECO mode using 25% battery & burning 600 calories getting a decent workout. Another ride I rode 26 miles in Turbo mode ascending 150 ft (surface was flat) and made it back home with 15% battery left and I burnt 1029 calories. I was up against the limiter of 20mph (USA) most of the ride. When I tried Trail mode it was harder, but not 50% harder. What I learned is there is no reason for using Turbo mode on easy or flat ground as your not getting the full use of the battery (energy usage). When your pedaling in Turbo mode you are using X amount of energy, whether it is easy or hard.
The motors output is constant, it will always be 70nm or ~50ft lbs at peak power, On flat or downhill ground there will be no difference, climbing will output the same power for the same amount of energy used, but that energy may not take you as far, So for Jess to have only a 10% advantage even though there is a 50% weight difference seems about right. She would have used much less battery energy to go uphill than Steve.
The last part was mainly up hill. I think it would of been more accurate if you just rode on the road on flat ground. However, this was a more real life test and it seems weight matters but not a massive amount.
The speed ( velocity) you climb at is has much more influence than mass. Kinetic Energy is 1/2 M v ^2 so weight has a linear effect but velocity difference is squared .
If system weight is 14% less then the best you should get is 14% more range so given all the other variables 10% ish is to be expected.
Hey Lee so you saying its not too far off?
So how does weight affect energy requirements? Obviously, on a climb the energy required to lift the weight is directly proportional to weight. How about rolling resistance? There is going to be some effect, but it's not going to be anywhere near linear. In fact, using the same tire pressure would have been exactly the wrong thing to do. If the pressure was correct for Steve, it's going to be too high for Jess. The added bounciness may have adversely affected Jess' rolling resistance and caused her to use more energy than she would have with the correct tire pressure. Certainly tire pressure is a big determinant of rolling resistance. The third component of resistance, aerodynamic drag, just not enough data to analyse.
Awesome trail
OK, now try that same test on a flat surface. That last bit drained Jess's battery faster because she was climbing all the way. Doing the test on a flat surface will put the bikes on a perfectly even footing. There won't be any unfairness where one bike is climbing while the other drains out on a flat surface or downhill.
14:16 - No, she´s not carrying any bag from the beginning until the end...
Take a Cube Bike with a Bosch Motor next time, I think you could do this tour twice or more.
Nothing is perfect. It's like the older fuel Gauges in Cars, takse ages for the needle to move and then when it gets to a quarter full goes to empty at what seems like light speed. I recently noticed my Battery level lights showing Green roughly 8km before it usually does on a certain track. I am recovering from a fall so on this ride I rode at a cadence, which on my Bike gives me the most assist from the torgue sensor, to make it easier. So it looks like cadence makes a difference to Battery life as well.
Hi I have a giant e+2 and with a mixture of levels I got 60 miles on 400 wh battery on mixed terrain . Pretty good I thought
jess is my weight, bwlch mountain is my local ogmore boy myself, ive done 30 miles on 500wh in under 2 hours
How many watts do motors in the bikes have? how big is the battery are you using? Thanks for the video.
Hey Steve,
What do you think about a handicap calculator for e-bike racing?
Inter all of the relevant information into a database and use that to calculate the "advantage/ handicap".
1 battery capacity - or mil/amps consumed?
2 motor specifications - torque, etc.
3 weight of bike and rider
4 resistance of motor and other components
This may be just the trick to even the playing field for serious competition.
Maybe this already exists?
I'm 127kg on my own, let alone bike weight and any gear like bag etc.
I think I'm best getting an ebike that can take a range extender.
Big Big question where do i get a EMBN shirt ??? I just love them .
My guess is that Steve being heavier has a lot more leg power and is pushing harder up climbs plus gaining more momentum on the downs by gravity alone.. making it easier on the bike and battery on both the climbs and downhill.. maybe you guys should try it again with power meters on? Just a thought. Cheers guys.
For sure Jeff, power meter ride on list
Tire pressure does a lot too. If you are going for a tour as opposed to trails, harden it up.
I saw Jess pumping the trail for extra Ks 😜 she's very efficient is what I'm saying ❤
What was the difference in average rider power input? If you're putting down more power per stroke, the motor/battery does less work.
Why would you think the results would be any different. Range is a function of the work the motor is doing. At the same tempo and gearing the motors are working the same. The difference is the riders power. Jess has to give less power to meet the required sipped and cadence, but both were near equal in relative proportions to weight. Ex. If the motor equal 50 then each rider would need to give another 50%. For each rider say that equals half their weight. So 30 vs 60 in terms of work. Proportions are the same, but the amount of work is different.
So whats the solution? Power meter and ride to a power to weight ratio?
Ddin't compensate for differences in leg power. Shoulda done one rider, but added 20Kg backpack.
Very interesting
Great video. I have the same results on my Giant Road-e. The first and last 10% goes blazingly fast. I watched my battery percentage go from 13% to 8% in 100 yards. Now, I always assume I have to get where I'm going with at least 10-15% charge. They really need to do something about that. It's misleading. Cheers
Thanks for the input! Interesting and strange why that happens.
You guys must break-in the battery first to get the best and more accurate reading. You need to run to depletion at least 3x, preferably 5x. Do this, and go back and test again. Use a power meter too to see how much each one of you are contributing to the effort.
Hey Mel, the guys have ridden these bikes a few times already, so no doubt the batteries are all broken-in. But thanks for the feedback!
Hi, I'm about to go to the dark side after more than 30 years pedal strikes in the mud. Close to 50 and having done a lot of sport, I'm 1,89m and currently around 110kg. Weightlifting, rowing machine and some other tortures are still on my weekly plan, and I think that I could lose maybe 10 kg but then what? A 100kg guy + a 24-25 kg bike reach the max system allowed. 2 possibilities then: I sell a leg or an arm or ride naked :-) Am I alone in that weight situation? What do the brands think with crazy system weight limitation?
I've just thought of a good name for none assist Bikes ,lets call them a Sweatped.!
OK I'm 3 mins in and I don't know the result but jes is pedaling downhill. Us fatties don't have to do that
Did you have cadence meters fitted and if so what was your average cadence. I’m usually 60 rpm average.
On the flat weight/size (aero) makes little difference at speeds below about 12 mph but climbing is where it does. Roughly on that ride I’d say the bottom line was 10% difference in range.
Don’t think battery’s are all made equal
This was not performed at its best!!! To test the weight vs range the way it SHOULD have been done was simply ONE rider on the SAME bike. Zero peddling, and as flat a test route as possible, over several runs starting with a fresh fully charged battery for each run. Then the ONLY variable will be weight difference, which can be adjusted using a back pack and panniers loaded with known weights such as barbell discs. The idea was good…Just too many variables here!
For some reason I find the lady presenter's voice to be kinda sweet
I'm assuming a 250w motor? What is the battery size?
Interesting to watch , but i think there are just way too many variables .
If one rider is a large amount of pounds heavier , you would expect way more energy to be consumed .
imo you have to take into account riders energy input to the pedals and do not change power assistance .
How long did it take to run the battery flat? I've heard it's impossible to run the battery flat in less than 75 minutes even on Alpine climbs. You can extrapolate that into the average power draw from the battery. It would clearly come out well beyond 250w, which would last 2 hours.
Guys, are you forgetting that Steve had a backpack on & Jess didn’t. Thought you were trying to keep as close as possible?
What knut 7 said!
I am over 6 foot and 250 lbs. I can not go as far as a 150lb person
Bad science staying in the same gear. To optimise any e-mtb for range you need to maintain 80-90rpm by utilising gears and that cadence keeps load on motor at a minimum. I can get 25 miles plus in turbo on my Yamaha PW-X 500wh Haibike riding this way, same with my KTM Bosch CX 500wh. You would then also see the kind of difference in range by bodyweight that you were expecting but didn't achieve. My mate has the same Haibike as me but is 20kg heavier, I always go at least 5 miles further than him on a full charge.
25 miles in turbo......are you riding on the flat
No mate, always over 1000ft elevevation gain. i am light though at 11 stone. Keeping cadence high is key, gets loads more range.
@@jamesuk9 1000' elev in 25 miles is damn near flat. Less than 1% ave grade.
I don't think they meant singlespeed. I think they meant they'd stay in the same gear as eachother the whole way around
Hi there, we kept in same gear as each other not same gear all way