Reading Music Is Overrated!
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- Опубліковано 24 гру 2023
- Christiaan Reacts to "Should sheet music be required for music school?"
by @Adam Neely • Should sheet music be ...
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Guitar Used: Altamira "Model TD"
Strings: Argentine New Concept (0.10)
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I remember hating reading and it took me at least a 18 months before it started to click into place.
You just have to DO IT and not theorise about doing it and how to etc etc / Head down and get on with it and eventually visualisation comes and the written score and the instrument become one of the same thing.
The notes on the stave, the chord shapes and scales become easier to translate to the instrument.
When it comes to music full stop, Carol Kaye is a big proponent of "do it and stop talking about it / analysing it"
Very interesting. As a guitarist coming to jazz from blues and flamenco I have always felt my lack of theory and sight reading a handicap. But then so many jazz instructors on youtube recommend learning the head and even figuring out the chords to tunes by ear.
It's a different use case. In a jazz setting, to be able to improvise and quickly recognize, or memorize, the chord progression you need to be developing a pitch recognition and be able to rely on your ears. But even in jazz, knowing how to read sheet music, as a guitar player, has a lot of practical advantages. But it's far from necessary to get to the high level of playing in jazz.
I very much like your reaction because it makes some good points and shines some light on our instrument.
Nevertheless…
if the bassist of a trio writes a composition…. he ain‘t gonna write it in Tab.
If you play in a saxophonist‘s quintet and he wants you to play the head, he is gonna write down standard notation for you.
if you wrote down a second voice for your band’s sax player, it probably wouldn’t work with tabs.
if you try to play some classical guitar, it will be written down as classical notation.
If I know my instrument and see standard notation I see what it is and can choose the fingering and position that I find best suited.
Some stuff on guitarist is easier than on other instruments. Quite a few things are harder than on other instruments. Still they are fun to do and maybe worth your time.
Everybody enjoy playing that great instrument!
Tab is easy, but very narrow in scope. Notation is a very simple language to learn and very broad in scope.
I play a lot of broadway score pit orchestras… no two ways about it, you have to be able to read.
Can you sight read and play right away? Or would you need a few times through before you're fluid?
For me on violin, I can play it right away often even with proper interpretation, concert ready so to say. On guitar I'd need 5 to 15 minutes to figure stuff out if it's like 1 page.
I once played guitar in the rhythm section of West Side Story and that shit took hours to figure out, very hard to read.
And on the lines, You have "every good boy does fine"
Wonderful reaction video!
Are you aware of Brandon Acker on YT? He actually also did a video about tablature from a classic and historical point of. Including lute if I remember well.
But the idea of tablature is basically already extremely old.
It makes you wonder why these days it's frowned upon by so many people?
My personal take on it all, is that very often the tool becomes the goal unfortunately.
Btw, on a guitar (or bass) it's not only that there are many different positions for certain notes, very often people also pick a certain position for a different sound.
You didn't mention this in the video, but in certain types of music this is really important.
Thank you, I'll check out that Brandon Acker video. Sounds very interesting. I touched upon the string choice indirectly with the dim arpeggios I think.
Great video from the personal statement in the introduction on. What helped me most to read was writing music, transcriptions and original music.
Thank you!
For hundreds of years musicians of all kinds of instruments have learned how to read music notation, so after all it can't be that difficult. Having said that, I'm aware that for some instruments it's more difficult than for others. For example, the guitar fretboard is so much more complicated than keyboards. So guitar tabs make sense, regardless of the musical style. I'm a guitar player who happens to read well but who nevertheless regards tabs and grids as a great help that make playing much easier. When it comes to sight reading ("prima vista") - well, I guess it depends whether you can make any use of it. I once met a guitarist who made good money as a studio musician. His ability to sight read very well guaranteed him the job. But for most guitarists being able to sight read will rarely be required, so learning it would be quite a waste of time.
With FACE I use Every Good Boy Does Fine.
Every once in a while I use this app that's teaching you note placement recognition because I would like to be able to read sheet music. And yes in a few hours I can recognize the notes quickly but to actually put a sheet of music in front of myself and play it, that's something completely different. That takes practicing reading music while playing your instrument, completely different skill, the one that takes far longer.
Sure if the student is motivated enough, you could admit a person into a music school without this previous knowledge but how do you gauge how much time is someone willing to put in. Even so, I would think it would be a stressful and frustrating transition period for a student and professors.
An analogy would be all the online guides that purport to teach you how to "read" Korean in an afternoon. Yeah you might be able to sound out written words, but you'd be nowhere closer to understanding what the words mean.
I find for me it's also instrument specific. I am very quick at reading music on the cello (as I received classical training on this instrument), piano is much slower, and much guitar slower still. I would however still consider myself "best" at guitar (at the moment)
@@dank5018 yeah I never heard anyone say what Christian said about violin being much easier to read music on than guitar. Yes guitar has multiple areas where you can play the same notes but I'd think in time you train yourself to know what the optimal section of the fretboard is for a certain phrase. But I wouldn't know. My music sheet reading is at the kindergartner reading level. I still plan on getting better at it.
I'm a guitarist who later picked up violin, and couldn't read till I learned that instrument. Much easier to read, and easier to find positions without looking.
Exactly!
I love this one! thanks Maestro!
Glad you like it!
Regarding Irish music; learning it is not dependent on notation and its rhythmic subtleties and ornamentation can't be adequately conveyed by notation. While remaining a strong oral learning tradition there is also a long history as far back as the 18th C of folklorist collections of notated tunes gathered from musically illiterate traditional musicians with plenty of books now available. These are often used as skeleton sketches for learning tunes rather than finished versions, much as a jazz standard Real Book/lead sheet might be.
Thanks for the info!
I am a guitar player, only for about four years. I recently retired from work, so that I now have time to learn full time. As part of my journey I decided to go to university to get a degree in guitar performance. My genre of choice is jazz. However the university is very classically oriented. So I am required to not only learn to read music, but also play it piano and sight sing standard musical notation. At first I wondered why this was a requirement and secondly if it was worth the time - because it took time away from guitar practice. I am now entering my third semester of study and have to say that I feel that learning music in the classical way is actually helping me in a way that I never anticipated to be useful. So I will continue to pursue the degree with its strict requirements. I must say that I found this discussion to be extremely helpful and satisfying. I was comforted and encouraged to hear the comments by Christian and Adam. Many of the comments echoed what I have been experiencing as a jazz guitarist in a classically oriented music program.
i can read however, i cannot sight read
I think you can have an Open mind and an Honest opinion...which GREAT I agree with you. Reading is important because it allows you communicate with other instruments. If you are going to be a "Music School"Then be a school and teach people. If a person has talent and does not read..THEN TEACH THEM!!! The Old Jazz /Rock guitar musicians..didn't read as much they learned by ear.And They were the One who created the Art!
My teachers teacher..was a professor at Peabody school of Music...He could walk into a concert hall listen to a piece and write it down..he was a genius( Prof Zolotnik )..He studied with Schillinger himself...and his co student was Coltrane
love the scripted rambling ❤
I agree Tablature is Very helpful.I think Any means or vehicle that helps players to learn is good. Use them all.I think many Jazz Players(guitarists) that write books without tab on purpose are being Elitist and looking down on those that do not read notation.I can read both..
Do you feel the same about Jazz players that don't don't write the fingerings for piano or a saxophone when notating music? That would be a damn thick book for one song if you had to write the fingerings for every instrument. I've been a jazz guitarist for over 50 years and still don't read music very well but well enough to understand certain things and it has helped me to get some gigs. Heck, Wes Montgomery, Tal Farlow, and even great pianists like Errol Garner didn't read music but their music is universal and can be played by anyone that can read their music. For guitarists,tab can be helpful but it is not universal.
excellent reasoning about the subject matter.
Thanks 🙏!
As person playing classical violin then pick up guitar on the side later on. Reading violin score is VERY different from reading guitar score. There are key positional shifts, and scales and other things that make reading violin scores and knowing where the notes are on the fingerboard much easier. I admit I only read tabs for guitar, not to waste time.
THIS!
I never found sight reading to be a handicap. Fastest way to understand theory and how its used it to read Bach's 48 Preludes and Fugues. And some nice music to say the least. I play guitar and piano and can sight read choral vocal scores with bass clef on guitar; I find so many things I never would have thought of otherwise.
i bet frank zappa could and probably steve vai
Perhaps, but with guitar you never know. A lot of great players there that can't (sight) read. It just has to do with the complexity of the instrument.
Indeed Frank and Steve were able to read.
Tommy Tedesco...was one the best readers snd he had tricks
AudiatIon. Essential maybe not but arguably desirable. Otherwise the performer is merely “touch typing”. This scenario: the university lecturer reads from notes and the student writes notes. The content transfers from paper to paper without troubling the consciousness of the participants. I thought you tossed this away a bit lightly but then I don’t have even limited perfect pitch or a conservatory trained sight reading facility. Very interesting debate and consideration of Adam’s video.
Yeah, might be hard to believe but I estimate the large majority of classical expert readers to have very bad solfeggio skills. I have personally witnessed that 100s of times, yet they play masterfully. It just shows that good ears (in that sense) play no role in playing well.
@@ChristiaanvanHemert Don’t doubt you. My question would be in what sense do they have good ears? As a guitarist who can barely sight read anything other than chord charts I rely on prehearing everything so high level sight reading has a kind of magical quality.
They have trained the connection between sheet music and mechanics on their instrument to the highest level.
They understand how to interpret the notes (with dynamics, rubato, glissando, portamenti, articulation etc.) just by matching their knowledge of the style of the piece with pattern recognition of the note image based on years of practicing and seeing these patterns.
The ears come in with evaluating every musical decision on the fly and keeping in control of the sound.