I wrote a lot of songs before I became aware of this thing called "Counting Syllables". I think it's good to know that it exist and that it can be important and helpful, as long as you allow yourself to break the rules. (You explained this wonderfully!) I personally like the limits of the songwriting craft and then become creative within a self-imposed framework. Once you understand the rules (or guidelines), you can purposefully decide to break them. Just be able to always explain to yourself WHY you are doing something. I think counting syllable is a useful technique for beginners who tend to force two-syllable-words on one note/beat, which often sounds very fumbled and amateurish.
I never thought of this until I was working with my partner in rhyme, and I seen him going over his lyrics in his head, while counting on his fingers. And I'm like, whatya doing? He said, counting my syllables like it was something everyone knew you had to do. I'm like, well who cares if it sounds good? If it rides the beat and melody well, that's all that matters to me.
What a great way to describe when a bridge is necessary: "When you've got a river to cross". I usually write bridges, but you guys are spot on. They aren't needed for every song. One of the best songs ever written, "Me and Bobby McGee". Technically, it has a bridge, but that bridge is just "Lah da dah-- da dah dah--- Lah di dah da dah-- Lah di dah da dah da Bobby McGee, yeah..." Etc etc. It can be an instrumental. It can be a bunch of nonsense vocalizations. It can be a bridge to cross a seemingly insurmountable chasm. It can be nothing at all. Like people, every song is different and has its own path to travel. Another example: "Fast Car". It breaks a lot of "rules". Verse, Verse, Verse, Pre-chorus, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Pre-chorus. End of song. One of the greatest pieces of storytelling ever written. It doesn't need a separate bridge. Conceptually, the entire song is a bridge, leading right back where she started. A requiem for a dream.
I have had people tell me that artists and managers are only looking for a certain bpm for country radio... shouldn't that be irrelevant?? A good song is a good song.
Tempos are always a part of what drives a format. But there are always exceptions. Up tempo get more cuts but ballads are often song of the years. So write them all! :) Clay
Good video, guys, thanks so much. I know it likely varies by song/project, but can you talk more about when does a songwriter generally know that it’s just them on a tune and when does a co-writer enter the picture? Also, at what point does someone become a co-writer on a song? When they suggest one or two notes and/or word changes that seem to improve the song? Again, I imagine it varies. Thanks.
For me personally, I’ve made many suggestions to help our songtown members make their songs better and don’t expect cowriting credit. I feel when I invite someone in to help them they are a cowriter if it’s made the song better. I don’t count words or lines. -CM
@@SongTownUSA Yes, I’m forcing myself to use no more than 6 chords. And considering carefully whether a bridge is really better than an instrumental solo or something like that.
Clay, I've made a New Years Resolution to only write with co-writers that subscribe to the "NO" FREE ZONE and "TITLE GAME" theories; No Exceptions LOL !
“Every song doesn’t have to have anything” 💯
Write on! ~CM
Love this channel, currently working on my second album, and these videos are exactly what I need to get back into songwriting ❤
Good luck with the project. We love helping. Write on!
I wrote a lot of songs before I became aware of this thing called "Counting Syllables". I think it's good to know that it exist and that it can be important and helpful, as long as you allow yourself to break the rules. (You explained this wonderfully!) I personally like the limits of the songwriting craft and then become creative within a self-imposed framework. Once you understand the rules (or guidelines), you can purposefully decide to break them. Just be able to always explain to yourself WHY you are doing something. I think counting syllable is a useful technique for beginners who tend to force two-syllable-words on one note/beat, which often sounds very fumbled and amateurish.
Write on! Well said. -CM
Well said
I never thought of this until I was working with my partner in rhyme, and I seen him going over his lyrics in his head, while counting on his fingers. And I'm like, whatya doing? He said, counting my syllables like it was something everyone knew you had to do. I'm like, well who cares if it sounds good? If it rides the beat and melody well, that's all that matters to me.
@@offlynice Write on! ~CM
What a great way to describe when a bridge is necessary: "When you've got a river to cross".
I usually write bridges, but you guys are spot on. They aren't needed for every song. One of the best songs ever written, "Me and Bobby McGee". Technically, it has a bridge, but that bridge is just "Lah da dah-- da dah dah--- Lah di dah da dah-- Lah di dah da dah da Bobby McGee, yeah..." Etc etc.
It can be an instrumental. It can be a bunch of nonsense vocalizations. It can be a bridge to cross a seemingly insurmountable chasm. It can be nothing at all.
Like people, every song is different and has its own path to travel.
Another example: "Fast Car". It breaks a lot of "rules". Verse, Verse, Verse, Pre-chorus, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Verse, Chorus, Pre-chorus. End of song. One of the greatest pieces of storytelling ever written. It doesn't need a separate bridge. Conceptually, the entire song is a bridge, leading right back where she started. A requiem for a dream.
Great insights. Write on! CM
Excellent info and encouragement again! Thanks Clay and Marty!
I have struggled to find a songwriting partner at the same interest and availability level as myself, but I love to work together when it clicks.
We have lots of folks serious about cowriting at a high level in our SongTown community. www.songtown.com
I like and agree with the conversation about every path is different..Nice job guys thank you
Thanks for jumping in on the conversation. Write on! CM
Bridges: binged Lee Hazlewood the other day. Great that quite a few of his songs do verse, verse, instrumental-verse , verse. And they work.
I have had people tell me that artists and managers are only looking for a certain bpm for country radio... shouldn't that be irrelevant?? A good song is a good song.
Tempos are always a part of what drives a format. But there are always exceptions. Up tempo get more cuts but ballads are often song of the years. So write them all! :) Clay
Another great session guys. Some good advice.
awww thanks! Glad to help. Write on! CM
Good video, guys, thanks so much.
I know it likely varies by song/project, but can you talk more about when does a songwriter generally know that it’s just them on a tune and when does a co-writer enter the picture?
Also, at what point does someone become a co-writer on a song? When they suggest one or two notes and/or word changes that seem to improve the song? Again, I imagine it varies.
Thanks.
For me personally, I’ve made many suggestions to help our songtown members make their songs better and don’t expect cowriting credit. I feel when I invite someone in to help them they are a cowriter if it’s made the song better. I don’t count words or lines. -CM
Thanks.
Bridges…yeah, I’ve been compulsively putting them in every song. Last song had like 24 chords hh
Chord FOMO is real. Afraid to leave one out? 😂. Write on! CM
@@SongTownUSA Yes, I’m forcing myself to use no more than 6 chords. And considering carefully whether a bridge is really better than an instrumental solo or something like that.
Love it thank you…
HEy buddy, appreciate it! ~CM
Groovy advice guys!!!
Write on! ~CM
We Critiqued 2,000 People's Songs (Here's What We Learned) ua-cam.com/video/NKZUvSyxGKA/v-deo.html
Some of the best songs in history were co-written. Groups like the Beatles, the Eagles, Rush and so many more had great songs that were co-written.
YEs! The majority of classic songs throughout history have been co-written. Write on! CM
Clay, I've made a New Years Resolution to only write with co-writers that subscribe to the "NO" FREE ZONE and "TITLE GAME" theories; No Exceptions LOL !
I hope the “13 songwriters” comment wasn’t a dig at Rick Beato.
Ha! Our video came out before his.
Don't think Dylan ever counted syllables.