🚨WHAT I USE IN THE VIDEO I use the Kester 951 no clean flux. It lasts forever amzn.to/3bfvukk Security Torx bits : amzn.to/3PPgs42 18650 21700 lithium Universal battery cell CHARGER: amzn.to/44Pmc57 RYOBI Dual Voltage Portable soldering station: amzn.to/3Jj0lZK Inexpensive soldering iron/ kits: amzn.to/3zEmNcJ Replacement battery cases/boards Dewalt Battery case & board: amzn.to/3OL2v5B Makita Battery case & board: amzn.to/3cRIahD Milwaukee Battery case & board: amzn.to/3SamPAq
What kind of liquid flux were you using in that little bottle also any small electrical connection like that do you always use rosine core soldier and what do they use silver solder on I’m looking to try and fix a bunch of cell cameras for deer hunting but Iv never been good at soldier or know what to use on each thing
I got 2 Chinese makita batteries for $32 from ebay they lasted a few months both shorted out with high amp draw tools. They sent me 2 new ones and the same thing happened .I bought some decent new cells from the 18650 battery store for $2 each and rebuilt them and they are amazing way better then any factory makita pack
Factory Makita batteries are tough to beat, I have 3 that are almost 20 years old that still work but one is getting pretty weak and doesn't last long, but it's the 1.5 Ah, and the others are 2.0 Ah.
Great info! I have several packs that the BMS failed. The cells are still good but the little circuit board inside is bad. I take the cells out of those and use them as replacements as needed.
Did you notice that the failure battery is always the 1st one in the series. This is due to overcharging, the chemicals in the battery overheat and degrade. Its common in all batteries including phones. Very instructive video. Kudos.
Exactly, I be telling even mechanics, "yeo want me to take the battery off the charger?" They be like "nah don't touch that, matter fact go clean up blablabla". After that, I only care about my tools, my hard hat, my hours, and my safety. Everything else got nothing to do w me unless instructed by a supervisor
Instead of Soldering on a battery, you can buy a "battery spot welder" for ~$50, and do it just like the manufacturer does. Much safer, much faster, stronger joint.
4 місяці тому+5
Thank you for taking the time to put the video together. I am an electrician of many years but you tought me something new, thank you especially about laptop cells and internal resistance pairing
I have to say I rarely find a video on here that genuinely makes me happy I learned something new. I was well aware of the batteries inside these packs, but never even thought to try to open one. I have the individual 18650 charger for my vaping batteries which indecently are the same cells just usually much higher drain. Anyways I have so many old packs that don’t charge well that I can now mess with and try to make good again! Thanks for the amazing info. Please if you have a chance do some videos on building/repairing or improving EGO batteries for blowers trimmers and mowers if you could. Thanks again definitely earned a sub and a like!!
I tore apart a couple of DeWalt batteries and recovered LG he2 and Samsung 25r cells which are pretty good vaping batteries. Been using them over a year.
First off: Give Ginger another biscuit. I had similarly the same issue with solar-powered lights. The solar panel was tested and it was putting out the needed voltage to keep the batteries charged, so I figured it had to be the batteries not accepting the charge. I went and ordered a 10-pack of matching batteries because I had 3 of these same lights. I tested the batteries on each one just like you did. I disassembled them because the new batteries cost me around $15.00 for ten of them and each light cost over $40.00 new a few years ago, so the expense was worth it. Once I disconnected the old batteries that showed no power and soldered in new ones I saved 3 lights from the dump. By the way, those 3 solar lights went almost 3 years without a problem, so hopefully, the new batteries will last just as long. I think it took about an hour to repair each one (disassembly was a headache), but well worth it as they live again and it didn't cost me another $150.00+ (Current Prices) to replace the lights. I still have 6 batteries left over, but it was cheaper to buy them in quantities of ten than one at a time. P.S. I don't throw anything away intact. If I can recover a screw, bolt, washer, etc. from it, I do. This has saved me many trips to the hardware store when building something totally different.
That's great. Some people get enjoyment out of fixing, learning and saving money. The rest only get enjoyment out of shinny new and spending money, which is a never ending battle.
Lithium cells are quite impressive for there size, just look at modern jump start . So much current , amazing. Your dog is just loverly, she is so forgiving.
Unfortunately they still lack the power density of Gasoline....among other issues. Battery technology is really holding back the capabilities of electric motors.
Thank you so much for this! I just won a $700 e-scooter and it came with a junk battery that only lasts like 10 minutes and the company that makes it went under so buying a new battery is out of the question. I broke the battery down and was thinking I would have to replace all the cells but now that I found your video I know how to test each cell so I can hopefully get this thing running. Thank you again, subscribed!
Even if I don't have a need for a pack, I harvest the cells and convert everything I have to use the 18650's I've done maglites air and water pumps, a lighted collar for the dog, anything I can fit them into.. just pay attention to the voltage...
I like the setup of your shop. Makes a great background that any gesrhead would admire. Looks like a ideal spot to enjoy a cold beer and good friends. Excellent video dude.
ive found you to be the most informative source when it comes to anything relating to cordless tools and batteries. not all li-ion batteries are created equal. some of the older hilti and dewalt use lithium iron batteries which have a lower voltage rating but higher recycle rate and cant be charged off li-ion chargers.
I have pulled apart a few of my bad battery packs, but have not gotten around to replacing the cells. The M12 is a bit tricky to pull apart. What I found worked well for getting the cells out of the tight battery pack is to put some hot melt glue on the end of the battery and attach some kind of puller. I use the pullers that are used in paintless dent repair.
Very good video. I have been fixing the small tool batteries in my Ryobi One+ (18v) for years. Most of the time, I take out the batteries and bypass the BMS and charge/jump it with a good back. Then if it charged up, I put it on the charger and 90% of the time I am good to go. Very occasionally I find a bad cell and grab one out of my stash and I am good to go. Good advice and description on this video. All the best!
Great begginer video. I'd also recommend lead solder. It melts at a lower temperature and makes it easier... also a spot welder for more advanced users. Cheers
Bought a 30v DC power supply and it has changed my battery world. I can use it to test batteries, charge batteries and run motors. Fixed my first 12v dewalt battery pack today for free (had a 1850 battery) and had my tool up and running in the same hour! Electric cars are coming we have to learn how to do this... :D
I agree with what you said about electric cars. Whether we like them or not..they are coming and we need to know how to repair them properly. EV batteries are more complicated of course, but most of the principles are the same. Which model of power supply did you choose?
This is the best and most complete tutorial I have seen. Ryobi batteries seem to be really prone to killing one cell, I am going to pick up one of those Kobalt packs and I can probably repair all 20 of the Ryobi batteries that I have on the shelf.
Sacrifice one to harvest cells to repair the others. It isn't just voltage that matters though, you need to match the capacity of the cells in the pack. Some battery BMS circuits will error out if some of the cells are discharging too quickly compared to the others.
When mine go bad I go to Harbor Freight buy 2 or 4 Bouer Batterys and I just swa the cells into my Dewalt Packs. I use to have a Video of it I should have kept it up but decided to take it down. Funny I have that exact same 18650 battery Charger too. I have done everything you do lol! Great Video!
I'm an authorized service tech for Milwaukee Bosch Makita Hitachi Porter cable/DeWalt. I was the cordless expert for a company for 15 years. You are absolutely dead on all your talking points spot on and well spoken. No corrections required.
Thank you! I got a nice Craftsman full drill kit at auction dirt cheap and none of the 3 battery packs hold charge. I plan on using 1 of the 3 to revive the other 2. I knew if was possible from your other videos. This shows me exactly what I need to do. And what not to do. I’m working with my 8 month old boxer-pit mix to be as well trained as your dog. She might be too dumb or too smart to be trained. I’m betting too smart, but I will keep working on her.
As soon as you accept the fact that dogs are much smarter than people the training gets easier... Establish a bond and be consistent Exercise her to wear her out before training bribe her with tiny treats every time she does good and it will all fall into place//
If you want a well behaved dog you have to establish and maintain dominance. I used to have a Belgian Malinois. One morning I was taking the kids to school and forgot to close the door. I returned home to a wide open front door and a content dog laying at the top of the stairs. Focus on positive reinforcement.
If your battery packs are year 2019, they are probably defective. When Craftsman V20 first came out, the initial batch of batteries all had defective circuit boards inside that would drain and kill the battery cells.
Got my subscription off this video. I have a dead Craftsman battery pack that I didn't want to spend $100 to replace. Definitely going to do this instead! Thank you!
Love your videos man. Appreciate your no nonsense approach. PS: Your dog is a welcome addition to your videos. Makes them that much more entertaining. 👍🏻
You can get a decent spot welder for about 24$ that uses either a high drain 12v lipo or a high amp-hr 12v car battery for power. They are made with two red pcbs for the body and have 3 buttons with a small oled display.
One thing to consider is that most of the cells in these packs were manufactured in the same batch, put into the battery at the same time, and likely have similar wear characteristics as ever other battery in the pack. It's only a matter of time where you see multiple failures in the near future (YMWV). This is a common issue in server RAID arrays for the same reason...all the drives are usually installed from the same shipment and are subjected to a similar workload over the same period of time. Replacing 1-2 cells may work, but if you could spare a few extra bucks, and you can get cells for a price that makes sense, just swap all the cells.
It is true for server hard drives, but they aren't the same as batteries. I have gotten plenty of batteries that have 1 or 2 bad cells and the rest of the cells have continued working just fine. and most of the time they go bad because people don't regularly charge old batteries, which I recommend very much. They tend to drain by themselves faster the older they are but not all of them from my experience.
This myth is often used by the manufacturers of the packs to try and dissuade people from repairing them. A cell dying is a freak event. The chances of 2 in the same pack dying in close proximity to each other is miniscule.
That is false. Cells do not commonly fail early. Plus in the video he told people to use good cells from equally old packs because its cheap to do as people throw non-working packs away. So you kind of went out of your way to post this false information. A tesla has thousands of cells, replacing one is riskier due to that. These devices have 5 cells.
Great presentation! First time I watched your channel. You may have broached using heat sinks in the past for drawing heat away from area using a small heat shrink clip when wanting to protect adjacent areas. This is what we needed to do in some soldering operations in aircraft avionics repair, the F-111 specifically, where we did a lot of circuit board small component replacement. Great pooch too…. Thanks
That is one cool dog just like his master. I had a 2P5S weedeater that had 3 bad cells. Now it's a 5S with half the life. Surgery was a little more complicated but she's still going strong where my corded one can't.
Notice it's usually the cell in the front of batt pack?everyone I ever opened it was usually the front cell bad. Possible that there is a engineering problem with the batt management system on the negative side or a missing diode for back emf
You never want to replace a single cell unless you test the internal resistance and you pair it with cells of similar internal resistance. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for disaster. Also only solder the battery if you are completely confident in you’re skills. If you insist on doing this, buy a little spot welding machine… and please be sure to match internal resistance, because tools these days draw a lot of watts and you don’t want a thermal runaway situation on your hands.
Wow you really remind me of a guy called "Myself"! Only difference is you dont apparently dont have any 80V kobalt tools, I definitely still use them, in fact they are among my favorites for sure! They have replaced all things I used to hassle with gas over, better performance and always ready to go, even the chainsaw, and I literally got them "Dirt Cheap", only one out of the 9 I had to actually repair, and its been great ever since. But I understand your conclusion since there is allot of those batteries that arent old enough to be bad for parts on ebay ! All mine have been been trouble free though and I work them hard. Still when they have replacement boards for those I would probably try my hand at getting a couple more going!
Wow thanks for sharing your ideas are on the money like the way ya showed us ya made it look easy without breaking the bank on tools ya got my vote signed up for more information 👍
Nicely presented. I think I have a clue now. Maybe even to the point of Opening up the Case and taking a deeper look. I just came to see about maybe understanding Which Post crossed over to Which Post for the Jumping it trick. Thanks
Excellent tutorial. Regarding soldering in general, a few things to ensure good joints and aide the process: 1 - make sure the soldering iron tip stays tinned or effective heat transfer will be nearly impossible. 2 - skip rosin core and go with solid solder wire and use Solderlene flux with alcohol wipe clean. Better for metal-metal soldering is solid solder and Stay-Clean acid flux followed by liberal baking soda/water flush after soldering. Use a small amount of flux and don't let it run everywhere.
You touched on an important subject regarding only using high drain cells. The biggest way people screw up when replacing all cells in a battery pack is by using laptop cells. Laptop cells have high amp hour ratings, but can only handle a fraction of the instantaneous current that high drain cells provide. Laptop cells will perform poorly under heavy load and will have a short life span.
@@johnrhodes3350 Well, not a good idea for some 5s 5cell packs, but definitely works when there are multiple cells in parallel. Also note that some chinese makita copys have much worse cells. After all internal resistance is what causes the voltage drop and why cells get hot.
Cycling the charger on and off repeatedly sometimes fixes blinking codes too. Plug into a power strip with a switch to make it easier since most chargers don't have on/off switches. I've done it before and have used the batteries for years afterwards.
It's nice to get something done so cheap but I've found taking the shell apart to be the biggest task with some of them. Perhaps you can give a tutorial on taking each brand apart.
If the circuit board doesn't work after replacing a battery because it had no power, try to connect the positive end of the battery pack to the positive point of the board with a jump wire for a few seconds, your jump start method. Sometimes the board starts working again. Good job, by the way.
Good Info, always like to know how to repair things. Even more true if it is a situation that you can't get "new". I've had 3 Milwauke M18 batteries that are about 15 years old. They still charge, and although not as good as they used to be, they do still last a good time in a drill, impact driver, sawsall, or flashlight. Now my M18 leaf blower, or other high amp tools, will run them down pretty quick. But they are so old they don't even specifiy the Amp Hour Rating 😁as that wasn't really a thing back then. They are just labeled as "HD", but guessing they are approx 4 ah. But I have a lot of new batteries too, but still use these old one's on a daily basis.
Came here to find out how to test and diagnose problems with the pcb circuit board for these types of rechargeable battery packs, and it only fixes offered was to replace it with a new one. That doesn't exactly work for tools that have been discontinued and they have different layout pcb connection locations that no current battery pcb boards have. I have all new battery cells to replace the old ones for every battery pack but it won't fix anything if it has a problem with the pcb components.
I have two 8 year old porta-cable 18v packs. Rest are 20v. The 18v both died within hours of one another, and located inside what looks to be a built in fuse, but also some unmarked surface mounts, one looking similar to a 555 timer from the 80s, just much smaller. My plan is to put in a fuse of similar ratings, once I locate a parts list for the model I have. I'm curious to know if Porta-Cable is known to put time bombs into their equipment. Timb bombs are code written to kill a vital connection after a specific date, or certain amount of use. Until today, I only encountered them in things like the R4 for Nintendo 3dxl.
I learned to solder batteries years ago. On the older BMWS the keys battery wirelessly charges and is sealed into the key. They are expensive to replace and I learned to cut them in half and install a new battery and super glue it back together. Gotta scuff and use flux and high heat, sticks to batteries every time. I was watching to see if there’s any other methods. I have always used acid based flux for batteries. I always clean them when done.
After watching the first 3/4 or so a couple times and finally getting to the part where you mentioned Makita I totally deflated all tumescence! I have around a dozen makita i batteries which are still fully functional. However the oldest among them are approaching the age of where this video was making me feel that rush of blood and perhaps engorgement when we think of our tools. The terrible news about Makita and the “BUYNEW BUY OFTEN BUY NOW! mantra of the shareholders really was a bummer. The small saving grace was the availability of the new pcb briefly returned some of that oxygen rich blood offering a glimmer of hope 😂
I would recommend the charger I got while doing racing drones. It is cheap and versatile Imax b6ac. Great info on your channel as always but the charger can help with many other scenarios.
I wish I saw your comment earlier. Bought the charger he's using but found out about the b6ac. It is alot more versatile and would've been great to use. From what can see the can charge a discharge whole battery packs as well as individual cells? All the listings adverise the pack charge/discharge function. But I don't see why it wouldn't work for individual cell charging like he is doing(@2:20) when set to the correct settings.
This was the only informative video ive seen so far unfortunately my batteries blew up / had a lot of corrosion on two sets had gunk everywhere and rather then go through the trouble id feel more comfortable buying a new one , but if it was so extensive i would have attempted to fix it
Working over a silicon mat can help with solder spatter or battery fires. Someone mentioned a sand bucket, not bad but make sure you’ve got a pair of tongs.
Love guys like this, so informative and easily looked over. My black and decker battery no longer charges and flashes red. Crazy i get this link on you tube a day after ordering a new one -_-.
U da man with useful vids, thank you. For tacking the tin strips you can also use a 12v car battery with nails. I tape off the wired parts where I hold them or you could make resin molds and cure the wired nail in it. But as little temp into the battery as possible is the target when you do that, just like with soldering. B.t.w, I think your dog wants payback for this trick of yours 😁
Glad to have bumped into you. What about using one of the small, rechargeable spot welders for strap attachment. Soldering the wire to battery connection mocks me.
Thanks for the great video!! I'm going through this with my dewalt 20vt batteries. Question is, when charging the 18650 to test, where is the negative wire hooked up on the charger????
I'm not sure if I understand your question. You have a single cell 18650 charger and want to charge each cell to test it? These are just like a AA battery with a flat end and a nipple(though larger and flatter) where the flat end is negative.
@sixtyfiveford correct ,I use them for my vaping mods. So of course I have a battery charger, like the one you have. In your video it looks like both wires are coming from the positive side of the battery, but I'm guessing that it's just a visual thing?
If you're worried your circuit board will die? you can also use alligator wires to supply power to the circuit board with proper voltage, low amperage & keep it alive while you work on it.
I generally use pennies in the slots when I need to jump power to or from a 20v pack.... in emergency situations you can absolutely jump a full size truck by charging the car battery from a 20v pack with jumper cables... you only get a couple shots at it but thats enough if you dont have bigger issues.. you just have to disconnect the 20v pack before turning the motor over because it will pop the safety "fuses" that are in the 20v pack
Not even close to logical. These operate upwards at 75-80C and are rated to do so. You'll never get closer to those temps soldering. I think the highest I've ever gotten a cell was maybe 45C soldering.
Only common sense how to fix something if you know how you save 80 to 100 bucks but I guess people like spending money. If you got a junk pad put a battery in it you’re good to go.
The reason why they don’t solder the battery terminals at the factory is not only because it is time consuming, but the heat can also damage the cells. For those who are going to do this kind of work I recommend to buy a small spot welder
this is so dangerous and i highly recommend anyone thinking about doing this from this video that you do research on lithium batteries, how they work and why you should never just replace one battery like this. thermal runaway on these high drain batteries are scary as hell and if you ever vented a battery before, you wont want to make that mistake twice
I just replaced 6 out of 15 cells in Milwaukee m18 9ah, but when i put everything back the BMS doesn't show battery level or anything and on the terminals I have 19v Any tips?
@@enduroiasg4068 No sorry, some of the smarter BMS's brick themselves when they are disconnected from the cells. If everything is back together correctly I'd look for an aftermarket replacement board.
Great video. I'm just now trying to learn because I have around five Makita batteries to rebuild. Question 1: How will I know if my Makita circuit board is bricked? Q 2: Whenever you're tinning a battery, what temperature is your soldering iron actually set to? It seems like you keep your iron contact time to under about ten seconds, and I'd like to nail it on the first try. Sucks when you can't get something to tin. Thanks.
Makita: If you've inserted the battery and got an error code more than three or more times, it's bricked. Soldering iron is as hot as possible. I think mine goes up to 900F.
did you know that you can use neodimium magnets for battery terminals, at the end of your leads? this will make it easier to charge the cells individually while they remain in a pack
One point they don’t all use the same cells, though most tend to use different capacities of 18650 cells, newer “high/higher capacity” batteries tend to use 21700 cells which are larger and the 2 cells are not interchangeable. While I have fixed battery packs in the past as typically it’s just a single cell or wire that tends to break and have even put new cells in packs; I must say for the battery pack cost vs the battery cell cost plus time rebuilding just doesn’t make sense anymore. I never understood why companies don’t offer a refurbishing service for their batteries where you send in an old pack and get either a new pack or new internals. Solder can work for smaller size rep area but the builders/assemblers don’t use solder not because of just time, but size and safety, soldering can be quite dangerous with lithium batteries. One tip I’ll give you is to use tube solder, you just squirt it in a cleaned and fluxed surface, fold the tab over, then heat. Or just invest in a spot welder as the fixes are just so much better and always fit back in the pack; I’ve had repairs that didn’t want to go back in the pack because of solder, before switch to spot welding.
I have an older Makita right angle drill that I've been wanting to replace/repair the battery.. 9000 was the # iirc. Might look into this even though I've got a Milwaukee right angle now.
I'm getting tired of DeWalt batteries dying like this. One 18V and just recently a 20V. With the 20V, I used the circular saw and it was binding (cheap blade it came with) and after a minute of that the tool stopped and the battery was toast. I just bought the security Torx kit - even if I can't revive the battery, I want to find out what is wrong! I like DeWalt tools, but I feel they should have some battery protection mechanism in place.
Excellent video covering many adaptors and combinations, but I could not see one that would suit my requirements. I am looking for an adaptor using Makita BL1850 or DM18M type battery to power older Dewalt tools that use the Dewalt 18v XRP batteries. Even a combination of adaptors would suffice. Thanks for reading.
fire is a big risk with batteries using the wrong size cells can be risky in that way. it is possible that laptop cells are being used to repair ebike batteries as well as the wrong kind of charger. i have heard that while you can solder on 18650 cells it is not recommended because you can damage the cell by heating it up. the dual row would be 2p configured as there are 2 rows in parallel and 5 in series to make 5s2p. the circuit board is the bms
I have a Hart 20V battery that runs the tool for a minute or so and dies. When I checked it, all voltages are within 1/10th of a volt. I then found that it will run again for the same period of time without being recharged if I let it sit a few minutes. After doing that several times the voltages are al still within a 1/10th of a volt, just a little lower. It's a 2AH battery that uses 5 Eve 20P batteries in series. These Hart yard tools are good for light things like blowing leaves off the porch, but I wish some one made an adapter for using a Dewalt battery in them because I have several of those. The Hart tools aren't worth spending the price of a Hart battery on once you've had them for more than a couple years.
🚨WHAT I USE IN THE VIDEO
I use the Kester 951 no clean flux. It lasts forever amzn.to/3bfvukk
Security Torx bits : amzn.to/3PPgs42
18650 21700 lithium Universal battery cell CHARGER: amzn.to/44Pmc57
RYOBI Dual Voltage Portable soldering station: amzn.to/3Jj0lZK
Inexpensive soldering iron/ kits: amzn.to/3zEmNcJ
Replacement battery cases/boards
Dewalt Battery case & board: amzn.to/3OL2v5B
Makita Battery case & board: amzn.to/3cRIahD
Milwaukee Battery case & board: amzn.to/3SamPAq
What kind of liquid flux were you using in that little bottle also any small electrical connection like that do you always use rosine core soldier and what do they use silver solder on I’m looking to try and fix a bunch of cell cameras for deer hunting but Iv never been good at soldier or know what to use on each thing
I like the fact that your tinning and solder welds went so quickly. So I was curious what the watt rating is your particular soldering iron?
I got 2 Chinese makita batteries for $32 from ebay they lasted a few months both shorted out with high amp draw tools. They sent me 2 new ones and the same thing happened .I bought some decent new cells from the 18650 battery store for $2 each and rebuilt them and they are amazing way better then any factory makita pack
Awesome
Factory Makita batteries are tough to beat, I have 3 that are almost 20 years old that still work but one is getting pretty weak and doesn't last long, but it's the 1.5 Ah, and the others are 2.0 Ah.
This actually worked. I used the jump method and now my battery is charging. Thank you
Great info! I have several packs that the BMS failed. The cells are still good but the little circuit board inside is bad. I take the cells out of those and use them as replacements as needed.
Awesome.
Did you notice that the failure battery is always the 1st one in the series. This is due to overcharging, the chemicals in the battery overheat and degrade. Its common in all batteries including phones. Very instructive video. Kudos.
how so even in phones ? phones are single cell batteries ...
actually, my own experience was the one/s in from the end that went more often.
Exactly, I be telling even mechanics, "yeo want me to take the battery off the charger?" They be like "nah don't touch that, matter fact go clean up blablabla". After that, I only care about my tools, my hard hat, my hours, and my safety. Everything else got nothing to do w me unless instructed by a supervisor
Cell phone batteries are single cell 😂
Figures. Manufacturers want us to buy new but often isn't necessary. Great job showing us how to save money and be easy on the environment.
Instead of Soldering on a battery, you can buy a "battery spot welder" for ~$50, and do it just like the manufacturer does. Much safer, much faster, stronger joint.
Thank you for taking the time to put the video together. I am an electrician of many years but you tought me something new, thank you especially about laptop cells and internal resistance pairing
I have to say I rarely find a video on here that genuinely makes me happy I learned something new. I was well aware of the batteries inside these packs, but never even thought to try to open one. I have the individual 18650 charger for my vaping batteries which indecently are the same cells just usually much higher drain. Anyways I have so many old packs that don’t charge well that I can now mess with and try to make good again! Thanks for the amazing info.
Please if you have a chance do some videos on building/repairing or improving EGO batteries for blowers trimmers and mowers if you could. Thanks again definitely earned a sub and a like!!
I tore apart a couple of DeWalt batteries and recovered LG he2 and Samsung 25r cells which are pretty good vaping batteries. Been using them over a year.
First off: Give Ginger another biscuit.
I had similarly the same issue with solar-powered lights. The solar panel was tested and it was putting out the needed voltage to keep the batteries charged, so I figured it had to be the batteries not accepting the charge. I went and ordered a 10-pack of matching batteries because I had 3 of these same lights. I tested the batteries on each one just like you did. I disassembled them because the new batteries cost me around $15.00 for ten of them and each light cost over $40.00 new a few years ago, so the expense was worth it.
Once I disconnected the old batteries that showed no power and soldered in new ones I saved 3 lights from the dump.
By the way, those 3 solar lights went almost 3 years without a problem, so hopefully, the new batteries will last just as long. I think it took about an hour to repair each one (disassembly was a headache), but well worth it as they live again and it didn't cost me another $150.00+ (Current Prices) to replace the lights. I still have 6 batteries left over, but it was cheaper to buy them in quantities of ten than one at a time.
P.S. I don't throw anything away intact. If I can recover a screw, bolt, washer, etc. from it, I do. This has saved me many trips to the hardware store when building something totally different.
That's great. Some people get enjoyment out of fixing, learning and saving money. The rest only get enjoyment out of shinny new and spending money, which is a never ending battle.
Great idea actually. I'm gonna start doing this exact thing m
Amazingly informative!! You are one hands-on dude with zero BS 👍🏻
Lithium cells are quite impressive for there size, just look at modern jump start .
So much current , amazing.
Your dog is just loverly, she is so forgiving.
Yes, thanks
Unfortunately they still lack the power density of Gasoline....among other issues.
Battery technology is really holding back the capabilities of electric motors.
Thank you so much for this! I just won a $700 e-scooter and it came with a junk battery that only lasts like 10 minutes and the company that makes it went under so buying a new battery is out of the question. I broke the battery down and was thinking I would have to replace all the cells but now that I found your video I know how to test each cell so I can hopefully get this thing running. Thank you again, subscribed!
Even if I don't have a need for a pack, I harvest the cells and convert everything I have to use the 18650's I've done maglites air and water pumps, a lighted collar for the dog, anything I can fit them into.. just pay attention to the voltage...
I like the setup of your shop. Makes a great background that any gesrhead would admire. Looks like a ideal spot to enjoy a cold beer and good friends. Excellent video dude.
Hey thanks
ive found you to be the most informative source when it comes to anything relating to cordless tools and batteries. not all li-ion batteries are created equal. some of the older hilti and dewalt use lithium iron batteries which have a lower voltage rating but higher recycle rate and cant be charged off li-ion chargers.
I have pulled apart a few of my bad battery packs, but have not gotten around to replacing the cells. The M12 is a bit tricky to pull apart. What I found worked well for getting the cells out of the tight battery pack is to put some hot melt glue on the end of the battery and attach some kind of puller. I use the pullers that are used in paintless dent repair.
What an awesome idea!
Very good video. I have been fixing the small tool batteries in my Ryobi One+ (18v) for years. Most of the time, I take out the batteries and bypass the BMS and charge/jump it with a good back. Then if it charged up, I put it on the charger and 90% of the time I am good to go. Very occasionally I find a bad cell and grab one out of my stash and I am good to go. Good advice and description on this video. All the best!
Great begginer video. I'd also recommend lead solder. It melts at a lower temperature and makes it easier... also a spot welder for more advanced users. Cheers
Bought a 30v DC power supply and it has changed my battery world. I can use it to test batteries, charge batteries and run motors. Fixed my first 12v dewalt battery pack today for free (had a 1850 battery) and had my tool up and running in the same hour! Electric cars are coming we have to learn how to do this... :D
I agree with what you said about electric cars. Whether we like them or not..they are coming and we need to know how to repair them properly. EV batteries are more complicated of course, but most of the principles are the same. Which model of power supply did you choose?
This is the best and most complete tutorial I have seen. Ryobi batteries seem to be really prone to killing one cell, I am going to pick up one of those Kobalt packs and I can probably repair all 20 of the Ryobi batteries that I have on the shelf.
After loving the lawn implements I bought a drill set and yup… the 18V batteries suck
Sacrifice one to harvest cells to repair the others.
It isn't just voltage that matters though, you need to match the capacity of the cells in the pack.
Some battery BMS circuits will error out if some of the cells are discharging too quickly compared to the others.
Very well done and informative. Many diy ers have no idea this can be done and will spend tons of money on. A new battery pack.
Thank you very much for you time teaching how to repair the batterys 👍🏼👍🏼🤝 03-27-2023 7:18pm. ⌚
When mine go bad I go to Harbor Freight buy 2 or 4 Bouer Batterys and I just swa the cells into my Dewalt Packs. I use to have a Video of it I should have kept it up but decided to take it down. Funny I have that exact same 18650 battery Charger too. I have done everything you do lol! Great Video!
I'm an authorized service tech for Milwaukee Bosch Makita Hitachi Porter cable/DeWalt. I was the cordless expert for a company for 15 years.
You are absolutely dead on all your talking points spot on and well spoken. No corrections required.
Thank you! I got a nice Craftsman full drill kit at auction dirt cheap and none of the 3 battery packs hold charge. I plan on using 1 of the 3 to revive the other 2. I knew if was possible from your other videos. This shows me exactly what I need to do. And what not to do. I’m working with my 8 month old boxer-pit mix to be as well trained as your dog. She might be too dumb or too smart to be trained. I’m betting too smart, but I will keep working on her.
As soon as you accept the fact that dogs are much smarter than people the training gets easier... Establish a bond and be consistent Exercise her to wear her out before training bribe her with tiny treats every time she does good and it will all fall into place//
If you want a well behaved dog you have to establish and maintain dominance.
I used to have a Belgian Malinois. One morning I was taking the kids to school and forgot to close the door. I returned home to a wide open front door and a content dog laying at the top of the stairs.
Focus on positive reinforcement.
If your battery packs are year 2019, they are probably defective. When Craftsman V20 first came out, the initial batch of batteries all had defective circuit boards inside that would drain and kill the battery cells.
Got my subscription off this video. I have a dead Craftsman battery pack that I didn't want to spend $100 to replace. Definitely going to do this instead! Thank you!
Love your videos man. Appreciate your no nonsense approach. PS: Your dog is a welcome addition to your videos. Makes them that much more entertaining. 👍🏻
You can get a decent spot welder for about 24$ that uses either a high drain 12v lipo or a high amp-hr 12v car battery for power. They are made with two red pcbs for the body and have 3 buttons with a small oled display.
One thing to consider is that most of the cells in these packs were manufactured in the same batch, put into the battery at the same time, and likely have similar wear characteristics as ever other battery in the pack. It's only a matter of time where you see multiple failures in the near future (YMWV). This is a common issue in server RAID arrays for the same reason...all the drives are usually installed from the same shipment and are subjected to a similar workload over the same period of time.
Replacing 1-2 cells may work, but if you could spare a few extra bucks, and you can get cells for a price that makes sense, just swap all the cells.
It is true for server hard drives, but they aren't the same as batteries. I have gotten plenty of batteries that have 1 or 2 bad cells and the rest of the cells have continued working just fine. and most of the time they go bad because people don't regularly charge old batteries, which I recommend very much. They tend to drain by themselves faster the older they are but not all of them from my experience.
But how does this detriment Trump Supporters ?
This myth is often used by the manufacturers of the packs to try and dissuade people from repairing them. A cell dying is a freak event. The chances of 2 in the same pack dying in close proximity to each other is miniscule.
What an interesting reference to server arrays. I've seen the very same thing happen with batches of drives in raid arrays.
That is false. Cells do not commonly fail early. Plus in the video he told people to use good cells from equally old packs because its cheap to do as people throw non-working packs away. So you kind of went out of your way to post this false information. A tesla has thousands of cells, replacing one is riskier due to that. These devices have 5 cells.
Good information 👍.
Ginger sure has good discipline, and she is so cute. Nice to see her paw has healed.
Great info just purchased new Dewalt batteries, so wish I seen this vid before throwing away old ones. Putting this in my save folder for reference
Great presentation! First time I watched your channel. You may have broached using heat sinks in the past for drawing heat away from area using a small heat shrink clip when wanting to protect adjacent areas. This is what we needed to do in some soldering operations in aircraft avionics repair, the F-111 specifically, where we did a lot of circuit board small component replacement. Great pooch too…. Thanks
Why would you have to replace the boards?
That is one cool dog just like his master. I had a 2P5S weedeater that had 3 bad cells. Now it's a 5S with half the life. Surgery was a little more complicated but she's still going strong where my corded one can't.
Awesome.
Notice it's usually the cell in the front of batt pack?everyone I ever opened it was usually the front cell bad. Possible that there is a engineering problem with the batt management system on the negative side or a missing diode for back emf
Awesome video, I wish I knew this years ago. I’ve spent a small fortune buying battery.
You never want to replace a single cell unless you test the internal resistance and you pair it with cells of similar internal resistance. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for disaster. Also only solder the battery if you are completely confident in you’re skills. If you insist on doing this, buy a little spot welding machine… and please be sure to match internal resistance, because tools these days draw a lot of watts and you don’t want a thermal runaway situation on your hands.
Exactly the 2 comments I was going to make. Thanks for saving my fingers.
This comment sounds like great advice.
Thank you very much, good quality info and very thorough. I've had 2 part Blue Healers they are wiser than some humans I have come across.
Wow you really remind me of a guy called "Myself"! Only difference is you dont apparently dont have any 80V kobalt tools, I definitely still use them, in fact they are among my favorites for sure! They have replaced all things I used to hassle with gas over, better performance and always ready to go, even the chainsaw, and I literally got them "Dirt Cheap", only one out of the 9 I had to actually repair, and its been great ever since. But I understand your conclusion since there is allot of those batteries that arent old enough to be bad for parts on ebay ! All mine have been been trouble free though and I work them hard. Still when they have replacement boards for those I would probably try my hand at getting a couple more going!
Wow thanks for sharing your ideas are on the money like the way ya showed us ya made it look easy without breaking the bank on tools ya got my vote signed up for more information 👍
You can still those security tips in the torx screws and use regular torx too. Food for thought
I have used the ryobi soldering iron to Fix Sterling Silver Jewelry was impressed most of the time you have to braze silver
Nicely presented. I think I have a clue now. Maybe even to the point of Opening up the Case and taking a deeper look. I just came to see about maybe understanding Which Post crossed over to Which Post for the Jumping it trick.
Thanks
Excellent tutorial. Regarding soldering in general, a few things to ensure good joints and aide the process: 1 - make sure the soldering iron tip stays tinned or effective heat transfer will be nearly impossible. 2 - skip rosin core and go with solid solder wire and use Solderlene flux with alcohol wipe clean. Better for metal-metal soldering is solid solder and Stay-Clean acid flux followed by liberal baking soda/water flush after soldering. Use a small amount of flux and don't let it run everywhere.
You touched on an important subject regarding only using high drain cells. The biggest way people screw up when replacing all cells in a battery pack is by using laptop cells. Laptop cells have high amp hour ratings, but can only handle a fraction of the instantaneous current that high drain cells provide. Laptop cells will perform poorly under heavy load and will have a short life span.
what is a "laptop" cell??
@@kenluther9948 cells that are found in laptop battery packs. Low draw devices.
I've actually restored bunch of makita 18v batteries with laptop cells. Just use low ohm cells, i've used
@@hannessaariste your example is the exception to the rule, and as such the comment was essentially worthless. Use your brain first.
@@johnrhodes3350 Well, not a good idea for some 5s 5cell packs, but definitely works when there are multiple cells in parallel. Also note that some chinese makita copys have much worse cells. After all internal resistance is what causes the voltage drop and why cells get hot.
I take a fine point punch and knock the center piece out of the tamper proof torx screws. It doesn't take alot of force to get them to break off.
Cycling the charger on and off repeatedly sometimes fixes blinking codes too. Plug into a power strip with a switch to make it easier since most chargers don't have on/off switches. I've done it before and have used the batteries for years afterwards.
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can - and the wisdom to know the difference.
@@notcharles ......... ok?
It's nice to get something done so cheap but I've found taking the shell apart to be the biggest task with some of them. Perhaps you can give a tutorial on taking each brand apart.
Great way to save money and we all need that these days 👍 Stay cool 😎
If the circuit board doesn't work after replacing a battery because it had no power, try to connect the positive end of the battery pack to the positive point of the board with a jump wire for a few seconds, your jump start method. Sometimes the board starts working again. Good job, by the way.
Good Info, always like to know how to repair things. Even more true if it is a situation that you can't get "new". I've had 3 Milwauke M18 batteries that are about 15 years old. They still charge, and although not as good as they used to be, they do still last a good time in a drill, impact driver, sawsall, or flashlight. Now my M18 leaf blower, or other high amp tools, will run them down pretty quick. But they are so old they don't even specifiy the Amp Hour Rating 😁as that wasn't really a thing back then. They are just labeled as "HD", but guessing they are approx 4 ah. But I have a lot of new batteries too, but still use these old one's on a daily basis.
Subscribed for all the great practical info bro., all other videos were terrible but yours put it all together for me. Thanks and God bless!
Came here to find out how to test and diagnose problems with the pcb circuit board for these types of rechargeable battery packs, and it only fixes offered was to replace it with a new one. That doesn't exactly work for tools that have been discontinued and they have different layout pcb connection locations that no current battery pcb boards have. I have all new battery cells to replace the old ones for every battery pack but it won't fix anything if it has a problem with the pcb components.
Good dog and good info also. We had a red heeler they are so good.
Interesting stuff , keep it going I have battery failure so I’m soaking this up, just no solder kit, haven’t told the wife either😮😊
Wow. Your skills and knowledge are really inspiring. I enjoyed watching, listening and learning (and subscribing). Thank you.
I have two 8 year old porta-cable 18v packs. Rest are 20v. The 18v both died within hours of one another, and located inside what looks to be a built in fuse, but also some unmarked surface mounts, one looking similar to a 555 timer from the 80s, just much smaller. My plan is to put in a fuse of similar ratings, once I locate a parts list for the model I have. I'm curious to know if Porta-Cable is known to put time bombs into their equipment. Timb bombs are code written to kill a vital connection after a specific date, or certain amount of use. Until today, I only encountered them in things like the R4 for Nintendo 3dxl.
I learned to solder batteries years ago. On the older BMWS the keys battery wirelessly charges and is sealed into the key. They are expensive to replace and I learned to cut them in half and install a new battery and super glue it back together. Gotta scuff and use flux and high heat, sticks to batteries every time. I was watching to see if there’s any other methods. I have always used acid based flux for batteries. I always clean them when done.
After watching the first 3/4 or so a couple times and finally getting to the part where you mentioned Makita I totally deflated all tumescence!
I have around a dozen makita i batteries which are still fully functional. However the oldest among them are approaching the age of where this video was making me feel that rush of blood and perhaps engorgement when we think of our tools.
The terrible news about Makita and the “BUYNEW BUY OFTEN BUY NOW! mantra of the shareholders really was a bummer.
The small saving grace was the availability of the new pcb briefly returned some of that oxygen rich blood offering a glimmer of hope 😂
Wow Man U must love your tools if u chub up thinking about them 😂
man this is good. You gone start bein one a my favorite channels!
I would recommend the charger I got while doing racing drones. It is cheap and versatile Imax b6ac. Great info on your channel as always but the charger can help with many other scenarios.
I wish I saw your comment earlier. Bought the charger he's using but found out about the b6ac. It is alot more versatile and would've been great to use. From what can see the can charge a discharge whole battery packs as well as individual cells? All the listings adverise the pack charge/discharge function. But I don't see why it wouldn't work for individual cell charging like he is doing(@2:20) when set to the correct settings.
This was the only informative video ive seen so far unfortunately my batteries blew up / had a lot of corrosion on two sets had gunk everywhere and rather then go through the trouble id feel more comfortable buying a new one , but if it was so extensive i would have attempted to fix it
Thanks very much for a few things I’ve not heard about before
Great information. I have plenty of batteries to work on over the summer!! Thank you, JL.
Absolutely wonderful video!
I learned a lot thank you very much for making it!
You're welcome, glad it helped.
Thx for a great video! Replaced cells this way myself on a Makita 18v pack.
Good video! They're all the same because they're all manufactured in the same plant and then Ryobi or Milwaukee just put their plastic covers on them
Been looking for something like this. So many packs laying around. Heelers FTW!
Another great video!! You covered all the important items!! You are always thorough! Thank You!!
Easy fix here. Buy only Ridgid tools; batteries are lifetime warranty. I’m on my third set now, all free, including shipping. Best deal I ever made!
Awesome video, I'm about to replace all of my ridgid cells with the fancy Panasonic jobs...
Working over a silicon mat can help with solder spatter or battery fires. Someone mentioned a sand bucket, not bad but make sure you’ve got a pair of tongs.
Love guys like this, so informative and easily looked over. My black and decker battery no longer charges and flashes red. Crazy i get this link on you tube a day after ordering a new one -_-.
U da man with useful vids, thank you. For tacking the tin strips you can also use a 12v car battery with nails. I tape off the wired parts where I hold them or you could make resin molds and cure the wired nail in it. But as little temp into the battery as possible is the target when you do that, just like with soldering. B.t.w, I think your dog wants payback for this trick of yours 😁
Glad to have bumped into you. What about using one of the small, rechargeable spot welders for strap attachment. Soldering the wire to battery connection mocks me.
Thanks for the great video!! I'm going through this with my dewalt 20vt batteries. Question is, when charging the 18650 to test, where is the negative wire hooked up on the charger????
I'm not sure if I understand your question. You have a single cell 18650 charger and want to charge each cell to test it? These are just like a AA battery with a flat end and a nipple(though larger and flatter) where the flat end is negative.
@sixtyfiveford correct ,I use them for my vaping mods. So of course I have a battery charger, like the one you have. In your video it looks like both wires are coming from the positive side of the battery, but I'm guessing that it's just a visual thing?
@@weatherbird1111 I have the positive running inside the rolled up cardboard and going up to the positive. It just looks like it's going to neg.
@@sixtyfiveford wonderful, thanks for clearing that up for me!!
Excellent video, thanks! Wish you had covered Bosch 12v battery packs but I'll assume they are the same.
Good video thanks ! 👍
Got some old ryobi,
and newer worx packs. I think I'll try this 😊
This was a thorough video. Fortunately, I have got rigid, and I do not have to worry about this.
If you're worried your circuit board will die? you can also use alligator wires to supply power to the circuit board with proper voltage, low amperage & keep it alive while you work on it.
Thanks for the video. I just jumpstarted a Dewalt 18V battery just like you described.
I generally use pennies in the slots when I need to jump power to or from a 20v pack.... in emergency situations you can absolutely jump a full size truck by charging the car battery from a 20v pack with jumper cables... you only get a couple shots at it but thats enough if you dont have bigger issues.. you just have to disconnect the 20v pack before turning the motor over because it will pop the safety "fuses" that are in the 20v pack
Yes, that is the best way to go, soldering the batteries is the best way to destroy the lifespan, capacity and specs of a battery. Well done!!
Not even close to logical. These operate upwards at 75-80C and are rated to do so. You'll never get closer to those temps soldering. I think the highest I've ever gotten a cell was maybe 45C soldering.
I guess most people would throw them away, thanks for showing how to replace them
Only common sense how to fix something if you know how you save 80 to 100 bucks but I guess people like spending money. If you got a junk pad put a battery in it you’re good to go.
Very well explained and demonstrated. Many thaks for a good video. Cool dog too ☺
The reason why they don’t solder the battery terminals at the factory is not only because it is time consuming, but the heat can also damage the cells.
For those who are going to do this kind of work I recommend to buy a small spot welder
Soldering better.
To damage cell you shold heat it more than 30s. (tested)
@@skirnir-atf spot welding > soldering.
Also looks much cleaner
@@adamacosta7279
If hands not from ass, solder also looks very clean.
Excellent knowledge as always Mo!
Thanks!
Much appreciated!
A little tip if you don't have the security bits. Take a small flat head screwdriver and snap off the center pin in the screw head.
I've tried that years ago and had no success.
this is so dangerous and i highly recommend anyone thinking about doing this from this video that you do research on lithium batteries, how they work and why you should never just replace one battery like this. thermal runaway on these high drain batteries are scary as hell and if you ever vented a battery before, you wont want to make that mistake twice
Great information if you have a solid electrical background like being an electrician
Little trick with the ones that brick themselves when you pull the power is to piggy back a voltage into the BMS with some spare cells and wire.
I just replaced 6 out of 15 cells in Milwaukee m18 9ah, but when i put everything back the BMS doesn't show battery level or anything and on the terminals I have 19v
Any tips?
@@enduroiasg4068 No sorry, some of the smarter BMS's brick themselves when they are disconnected from the cells. If everything is back together correctly I'd look for an aftermarket replacement board.
@@jamesogle99 i put it in charger for few seconds and now it works :)
@@enduroiasg4068 Awesome!
This exact scenario was covered in the video.
Great video. I'm just now trying to learn because I have around five Makita batteries to rebuild.
Question 1: How will I know if my Makita circuit board is bricked?
Q 2: Whenever you're tinning a battery, what temperature is your soldering iron actually set to? It seems like you keep your iron contact time to under about ten seconds, and I'd like to nail it on the first try. Sucks when you can't get something to tin. Thanks.
Makita: If you've inserted the battery and got an error code more than three or more times, it's bricked. Soldering iron is as hot as possible. I think mine goes up to 900F.
@@sixtyfiveford Loud and clear. Thanks.
did you know that you can use neodimium magnets for battery terminals, at the end of your leads? this will make it easier to charge the cells individually while they remain in a pack
One point they don’t all use the same cells, though most tend to use different capacities of 18650 cells, newer “high/higher capacity” batteries tend to use 21700 cells which are larger and the 2 cells are not interchangeable.
While I have fixed battery packs in the past as typically it’s just a single cell or wire that tends to break and have even put new cells in packs; I must say for the battery pack cost vs the battery cell cost plus time rebuilding just doesn’t make sense anymore. I never understood why companies don’t offer a refurbishing service for their batteries where you send in an old pack and get either a new pack or new internals.
Solder can work for smaller size rep area but the builders/assemblers don’t use solder not because of just time, but size and safety, soldering can be quite dangerous with lithium batteries. One tip I’ll give you is to use tube solder, you just squirt it in a cleaned and fluxed surface, fold the tab over, then heat. Or just invest in a spot welder as the fixes are just so much better and always fit back in the pack; I’ve had repairs that didn’t want to go back in the pack because of solder, before switch to spot welding.
I have an older Makita right angle drill that I've been wanting to replace/repair the battery.. 9000 was the # iirc. Might look into this even though I've got a Milwaukee right angle now.
I'm getting tired of DeWalt batteries dying like this. One 18V and just recently a 20V. With the 20V, I used the circular saw and it was binding (cheap blade it came with) and after a minute of that the tool stopped and the battery was toast. I just bought the security Torx kit - even if I can't revive the battery, I want to find out what is wrong! I like DeWalt tools, but I feel they should have some battery protection mechanism in place.
Excellent video covering many adaptors and combinations, but I could not see one that would suit my requirements.
I am looking for an adaptor using Makita BL1850 or DM18M type battery to power older Dewalt tools that use the Dewalt 18v XRP batteries.
Even a combination of adaptors would suffice.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks brah! Like your info and your delivery.
Thanks
Amazing dude! I enjoyed this video! Thanks🖖🏼 regards from Sweden
fire is a big risk with batteries using the wrong size cells can be risky in that way.
it is possible that laptop cells are being used to repair ebike batteries as well as the wrong kind of charger.
i have heard that while you can solder on 18650 cells it is not recommended because you can damage the cell by heating it up.
the dual row would be 2p configured as there are 2 rows in parallel and 5 in series to make 5s2p.
the circuit board is the bms
I have a Hart 20V battery that runs the tool for a minute or so and dies. When I checked it, all voltages are within 1/10th of a volt. I then found that it will run again for the same period of time without being recharged if I let it sit a few minutes. After doing that several times the voltages are al still within a 1/10th of a volt, just a little lower. It's a 2AH battery that uses 5 Eve 20P batteries in series. These Hart yard tools are good for light things like blowing leaves off the porch, but I wish some one made an adapter for using a Dewalt battery in them because I have several of those. The Hart tools aren't worth spending the price of a Hart battery on once you've had them for more than a couple years.