Analysis - Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser "Swords and Deviltry" by Fritz Leiber
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
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Early to late 20th century American pulp is pure GOLD. Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser are perhaps the only duo from that era and the stories are dark, witty, humorous and they're tempered with little wiffs of tragedy. I read and collected all the books over the years and till this day, still love and treasure them, deeply. Glad you shone a light on some of the best S&S ever written. Cheers! P.S. The Thieves Guild idea came from a story by Cervantes (yeah, the guy who wrote Don Quixote) and it's funny how the creators of D&D utilized Leibers version to a t, but most modern readers and games have no clue on the origins.
Been reading through the Lankhmar series, just finished the 5th book, The Swords of Lankhmar, and it was truly incredible. Ahead of its time in so many wild ways. If you get stuck on some stories (namely the very long and drawn out Adept’s Gambit) keep going. They only get better as they go along!
Swords of Lankhmar is probably my favorite Fafhrd & the Grey Mouser story, though it’s very difficult for me to choose a favorite.
That story in particular really gives both characters a lot of room to breath & the Mouser’s imagination & humor, especially when he ‘goes below,’ always cracks me up.
I treasure my collection of F&tGM books & return them fairly regularly. Lieber does such a great job of bringing them to life & I love his prose. It can be a little flowery, but I’ve never found it inaccessible.
One thing I love about Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser is the feeling of cosmic horror that Leiber evokes. It almost feels like you are reading a Lovecraftian story at times. I know he also wrote horror, and apparently corresponded with Lovecraft and was influence by him.
You're naming all of my favorite authors in this video.
Thank you for talking about Leiber and all of these other legendary authors. The genre was built on their backs and they deserve all the respect and recognition.
I just read (listened on audiobook) this just a few months ago. I'm not all the way through your video but one of my favorite parts of these stories is the way it is that humor is handled. It's light-hearted yet often very dark. I also love how both the heroes are certainly just humans and seem to in spite of their skills still get caught or fail and barely escape. Yes and that tragic ending, was something I didn't expect in this genre. I think out of all the original Conan stories only like one or two had something remotely as tragic but I would say it paled to the third story's ending.
There’s Elric of Melnibone and Kane by Karl Edward Wagner he basically Elric and Conan fused into one but evil and immortal, sometime he’s a villain sometime he’s a “hero”, not a traditional hero but rather 19th century style Gothic horror novel “hero”, whom lived in a world that made the hyborian age look cuddly.
@@longwlenguyen4214The werewolf story is haunting in it's bleakness.
I've been gradually reading through the Lankhmar stories. True gems that have grown to be among my favorites. Thankfully managed to get my hands on a couple of volumes that collected the stories published back in the 2000's. The newer volumes seem to be hard to get physically. I only managed to get 4 before I went looking for alternatives. I look forward to you covering them. Lots of brilliant material in Nehwon.
I just reread Ill Met in Lankhmar. Easily one of the best stories I’ve read in recent years. Leiber has become a favorite of mine since 2021, and that includes influencing my own writing.
I recall reading somewhere, that Fritz, among many other hobbies, was a champion fencer. To me that always made his fight scenes more credible. Thank you for the review, trying to get a friend to read this series that I read as a young teenager when they came out, hopefully this will help..
I read and collected 6 volumes of Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser back in the 80's. Somewhere along the way I have lost them all. I went to the bookshop just this week to try and reorder the collection. All out of print. Time to scour the second hand shops but I don't hold out hope.
Lieber was a bit uneven in his works, but boy was he fantastic at his best. Gonna roll the bones. A pail of air. This series is very enjoyable
There is going to be at least a few tales to love, and virtually all of them are worth reading.
I'm a fan of Fafrd and the Grey Mouser. Their stories were some of the very first sword and sorcery books I ever read and turned me on to the genre. For some reason Ningauble of the Seven Eyes and Sheelba of the Eyeless Face always stuck in my mind, and when my sister was young they were standing jokes between us. I also like detailed fight scenes, so that is another plus for me.
"Come, little wolves".
Good recommendation. Thanks for unearthing this piece of genre history and analysing what's important, what works and what doesn't as much. I hope I can get one of these books soon.
The stories in this book were written later to explain and re-context events in other stories. It's sort of a reboot. The second book, Swords Against Death, is really the one that contains the first stories. I would recommend most people start with that one first.
Can see the kids are doing their part to keep the floor clean of toys.
Adding this to my must read list.
I like you comments on action scenes. For me, I often find when authors spend a lot of words describing the geography of a scene and were characters and things are in relation to each other, it tends to tangle up the scene rather than clarify.
I haven't read fantasy in year's. Was reading more literary fiction and the classics. But this year I re-read book's of the new sun. And it was like opening a portal again for these fantastic world's of fantasy. I've just purchased Elric Vol 1 and 2. This seems like one to check out 2. It's the shorter works that I'm interested in, not these big 800 pages that have like multiple books for just one story.
I'm a big fan of the Elric books, especially "fortress of the Pearl"
Good analysis here. I love these stories, and wish I had read them before the Conan books, round about 1969. I finally read Tolkien in '71 - ecch! Paperback
heaven, I guess. I met Fritz a couple of times. He based the characters on himself and his best friend, and considered Fafhrd more like himself, but I tend to doubt that. He seemed much more like the Mouser, at least in old age, as a writer should be. Yes, he was tall, but he was clever, too.
Really enjoyed your review and analysis. Thanks for your hard work.
Much appreciated!
Sounds awesome, I've got to try and find this somewhere.
Well this has convinced me to give it a read
Just picked up the audiobook. I quite like a lot of Howard's Stories. I like his action-adventure style of fantasy as opposed the grand fantasy of Tolkien and the like, and this sounds like something I'd enjoy.
One thing that always disappointed me about the stories is the pregnant woman/secondary antagonist in the snow lands isn't followed up on, they're just killed off stage. I'd have loved for them and Fafred's mom to have made another appearance
Absolutely must-read fantasy. Classic Appendix N material that everyone interested in fantasy (and D&D et al.) should read. There's a grit and realism/'greyness' that I find very appreciable in those pages, beyond it being one of the foundational blocks supporting the fantasy rpg and modern fantasy genres. A grandfather to be respected if not loved.
I read this not too long ago. Found "Swords and Deviltry" to be fairly entertaining, especially the third story where they meet. Leiber has a fairly good sense of humor but also knows when to get serious. The ending was tragic and I was hoping that the conclusion of it would lead to something interesting in the following book. And it almost did but was ruined. To put it bluntly, I was put off by the lack of morals of the lead characters in the 2nd book and stopped there. It was still entertaining enough but I don't really enjoy reading about amoral characters.
Not "amoral" so much as prechristian. It's revealed in a later story that Lankhmar is a sit-in for ancient Tyre, on the mediterranean.
well... RE Howard got to the 'Barbarians are from the frozen North' trope first I feel
Howard's barbarians were from various places. Kull (forerunner to Conan) was from Atlantis which was tropical, hence they were all barely clothed.
I started reading these in the 4th grade or so... they were good enough then and probably worth the re-read.
Read this in the seventies as a teenager, and it made a lasting impression, so that recently I bought a volume called ‘Lankhmar’ which I believe has four of the books bound together. Am wondering how it will stand up after a lot of Grim Dark.
Firstly, I love your channel Darklinger, huge inspiration for my dark age painting!
If that collection is the one with the Mike Mignola cover, it includes the book David is talking about. My personal opinion is that 'Snow Women' is a bad place to start (or restart) with these characters, and the best stories in your particular collection are 'Ill-Met in Lankhmar' and 'The Jewels in the Forest' -- the latter of which was the first story published for Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.
Personally, I think the best stories are Leiber's earliest, they can be found in Swords Against Death and Swords in the Mist. Also, Swords of Lankhmar, the only F&GM novel, is a solid place to revisit this saga.
I think these stories are a breath of fresh air from Grim Dark, while also managing to be pretty dark themselves, probably because of the irrepressible humor of the main characters. They verge on Black Comedy, without ever being flippantly satirical or ironically detached like a great deal of modern fantasy that seems more ashamed of its influences than celebratory. Some of Leiber's later stories border on self-parody, but the classic F&GM are quintessential dark fantasy that takes itself seriously enough that a reader cares about the narrative, without being so relentlessly grim and cynical that they exclude fun.
@@MrScovanx so interesting, and taken with the video, will definitely revisit, after finishing the First Law Trilogy, which I must say am enjoying immensely. What you say stirs memories of my early readings of these stories, and re connecting with earlier imaginative experiences is so valuable. Thanks, and thank you for your kind words on my old channel. Am busy world-creating at present.
I enjoy Fitz Leiber's stuff, but like you said, his action scenes... My eyes tend to glaze over at these parts. Thanks for the video, I enjoyed it. I've been trying to find out more about Leiber as an author, but it seems a lot of his essays and stuff have been lost to the void.
I think a lot of it has fallen out of print but hasn't been moved into the digital sphere yet. Leigh Brackett is in that category, too.
Only know these from AD&D deities and demigods always wondered if they were worth a read now I know cheers
I'd heard of these stories but never read them. It might be something to check out sometime as I did enjoy reading the original Conan stories. Along the lines of the antihero but from something more recent, it would be interesting to hear a discussion on The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.
I've done content on Thomas Covenant, too.
@@DVSPress turns out I had already watched one of them and forgot. I was able to check out the other two though.
I have a question.
For a long time a memory has bounced around my brain about a story i read as a kid that kind of creeped me out. I remember it was sword and sourcery as that was what i was into (AD&D days) and there were two unusual thieves and there was a creepy thing that happened with a spiders. When I saw Grey Mouser that name sparked at edge of my memory too but am not sure if both fragmented memories are connected.
So....anything with spider in this?
Conan encounters a giant spider and another thief in The Tower of the Elephant.
@@atomancer3611 Thank you but it wasn't really a giant spider as that wouldn't have creeped me out as a kid. It was something to do with a thief sort of mindlessly killing a small spider which sort of had .....consequences.
Any fan of D&D "Greyhawk" should know that its an unlicensed clone of Lankhmar.
I’ve never read it, I’m only reading manga at the moment, I’ve spent thousands on manga this year, I have so many books to get through that it’s going to take me forever to get through it. But this does sound interesting.
I thought Michel Moorcock had coined the Sword and Sorcery term
Why were they "Ill Met"? What seems obvious may not be.
They both lose their first loves- although the shades of their ladies haunt them for a few stories.
Hence, they're "ill-met".
You mentioned the writing style can cause the reader to get lost...tried to listen to Swords Against Death on Audible, I just kept zoning out...getting lost.
14:50 Hope it's not covid so soon again :)
Personally, I think 'Swords and Deviltry' isn't a good place to start with these characters -- 'Snow Women' in particular is not indicative of Leiber's fast-paced best, and it really depends on readers already being familiar with the character of Fafhrd for the 'joke' of his naive youth to even work. If you start with that book, I'd recommend reading the third novella, 'Ill-Met in Lankhmar,' first. F&GM don't need an origin story, but Leiber provided us with them, anyway.
The 'second' and 'third' volumes of the series (Swords Against Death, Swords in the Mist) represent the best F&GM stories, the classic s&s pulp style stories before Leiber's style gets self-indulgent. The only F&GM novel, Swords of Lankhmar is also a good place to start.
David, is your criticism of Leiber's action writing based only on these later, 1970s stories? Leiber gets wordier in his later stories, but I'd say classics like 'Thieves House,' 'Seven Black Priests,' 'Claws From the Night,' ' Bazaar of the Bizarre,' 'The Cloud of Hate,' 'When the Sea-King's Away' and the masterpiece 'Lean Times in Lankhmar' are much more balanced between direct action and Leiber's tendency for wordiness. His initial run at Unknown is the foundation upon which his reputation rests, and rightly so.
In my opinion 'Snow Women' has probably repelled more potential fans than won them over, it's turgid compared to the really excellent shorts Leiber produced as a younger writer.
300xp
Mouser and not actually a cat? Disappointed.
As close to a cat as is humanly possible. The Grey Mouser was what first drew me to the stories. Fafhrd's great, and Leiber's favorite, but not someone I could relate to.
The Gray Mouser, however....