@@suffering1901 I mean the meaning was suppose to be the opposite of his father's. Kiritsugu was correct, he saved people by killing others, the life of the many outweighs the view. Whereas Shirou does not trade lives, incontext it makes sense.
@@boxtupos7718 well i agree with your point but you should replace kiritsugu with archer because the point of that line is critique archers way of thinking not kiritsugu's (even tho he also critiques kiritsugu's way of thinking without him knowing) because he doesnt know how kiritsugu was before he was adopted by him
Since you mentioned cliche idioms, I have to say, one cliche that I *ALWAYS* like is the person who can never say an idiom correctly. "It is as they say, the bag is now cat-less" "Do you mean, 'the cat is out of the bag'?" "That is what I said, no?"
About the emotion talk, compare to a masterfully written movie like Once Upon a Time in the West. When Harmonica pays a visit to Wobbles after the initial confrontation of the movie (Wobbles arranged the meeting). Harmonica spends about 2 minutes of screen time beating the crap out of Wobbles, and then Bronson delivers a line... "You know Wobbles.....I'm kinda mad at you.". The delivery is perfect, sardonic and threatening at the same time, and the "here are my emotions" dialogue loses any potential cheesyness by punctuating a 2-minute long beating.
That last piece of advice on writing good dialogue is golden! We create dramatized audiobooks and the novel is more of a by-product for us. As a result, we have always altered the novel while recording the audiobook! Not the entire plotline, but mostly dialogue. Sometimes things just sound 'off' and you don't know why. You want to fix the lines based on how they sound when you pronounce them. Recording your novel is also a great way to spot annoying word repetitions. That is why we can't publish a novel, not even on Patreon, before all of it has at least been recorded. As for how to avoid writing bad dialogue: just watch The Room and... don't do that. :-)
This is very good advice. I sometimes edit for other writers and the main things they do wrong are over-characterization, small talk, and info-dump. I usually recommend that the author put the dialogue in scene where the characters are in action. If you're writing a fantasy, e.g., the man can sharpen his knife or sword or chop wood while the woman cuts vegetables for the pot.
I have Facebook friends who talk about their lives sometimes. They'd fit the description of hard men who've seen a lot of violence, but their defining characteristic is how quiet and restrained they are. Of course you get the punk kids who want a reputation but the real scary guys are the polite, softly spoken ones, whose reaction to a loud noise is for one hand to come up towards the sound, deflecting a potential attack, while the other flies to a concealed weapon. They don't go looking for trouble, and trouble tries to avoid them.
I know an autistic heavy metal fan, and it's like his life revolves around metal, and bashing other genres. And once he starts talking about it, he just does not stop.
Anthony Stewart Head might be the best exposition actor out there. He had to tell Buffy the world ending conditions every episode or so. He always delivered.
When you mentioned Spider-Man I was so happy that you explained how and why his quips are good in the comics. I feel like the new content we are getting with Spider-Man just blows that quality about him out of the water. Making him very annoying and silly. I wish they would fix this along with all the other problems he has now adays.
Thank you! I had a creative writing teacher who said you need to do all exposition through dialogue. My response was, "But the characters wouldn't stand around telling each other stuff they already know. That's not realistic!" A little exposition in the narrative can make a story so much easier to read.
I really appreciate your comment on over-characterization. When I write I often feel pressured to make each character always sound like themselves, so as not to produce "generic" dialogue, but now I'm thinking that might be a mistake. The hardest thing for me though is handling idioms. It's very difficult to write dialogue that sounds natural without occasionally resorting to idioms, but I have the hardest time choosing ones that seem appropriate to the characters without sounding cheesy. And if you're writing say, historical fantasy in a world with a unique religious system, it's really hard to choose the right expletives. They can't exactly say "oh my god!" or "what the hell do you think you're doing!" if you've written god and hell out of the story. Trying to make the characters say "zounds!" or "good gracious!" is just way too cheesy, and if the story's in a medieval setting you have anachronisms to worry about. You can't have a viking say he "blew his fuse" because they didn't have electrical fuses back then, and if you have him say he "lost his s - - -" it sounds like he's using modern slang that would be out of place in the middle ages. See what I mean?
Yes, especially in the realm of swearing in peculiar eras... It's tough... I think the trick is kind of like teaching the audience (reader) the "new language" of the setting... so to say. In the movie "Caveman" with Ringo Starr (yeah, I'm that outdated)... there was only one character in the whole movie that spoke "English" and he was Asian... Everyone else spoke "caveman" but between body language (mime-ish) and context of the scenes you (audience) didn't commit to a study in linguistics to start to understand it... I mean, honestly, what else could "zug-zug" possibly mean? Right? So it pays to be picky about what "sounds" like a swear, and then use other characters (even window-dressing types) to react in light of the "awful sacrilege" to impress the point. In a couple repetitions, either you'll have hopelessly "Dr. Seuss'ed" the thing into ridicule, or you'll be on the way to teaching the audience to swear "properly". ;o)
Love your videos, still have loads to watch and re-watch. Having contemplated with myself on writing a story stepping up from just writing music, I have fallen into so many of these traps already just in my mental framework, thank you for the good work.
Yeah, you know, I really liked Needle and Ash, not for the plot, but for the characters and how they interacted with each other. I’m not going to wrk you off, I vaguely remember the plot barely being there except as a vehicle for the characters to exist. But the exhaustion of the battles, the implied aggravation with that time of desperation in some instances....grrrr, I was there with them, like a another Joe Footsoldier.
The nutshell about expository dialogue is: don't disrespect your audience. Always be mindful of what your characters know and what they know other people know. Don't take lazy shortcuts that make your story easier to write but make the dialogue sound stilted and unnatural, like a Japanese anime. "Hey Tom, remember when dad died?" "Yeah, he was killed by the Empire, mother was very sad about it." "Now we will take revenge on the Empire." "Yes, we will, Bob."
Japanese anime... Is there any other? Also that is audiovisual media, is more viable to do that kind of exposition dialogue than to animate it, especially on a budget. And on average, they're better at visually expressing something than western tv.
Complementary videos for those interested in further conversation below. *Channel Criswell* - "The Social Network - Designing Dialogue": ua-cam.com/video/dxOECOtYeZc/v-deo.html *Jacob Krueger Studio* - "How to Write Great Dialogue": ua-cam.com/video/lGnLtMKIOZc/v-deo.html *The Walrus* - "Four Simple Rules for Writing Dialogue by Robert Wiersema": ua-cam.com/video/wAj1hAGc3zs/v-deo.html *StoryLogue* - "Robert McKee: 10 Problems To Avoid With Dialogue In Screenplays": ua-cam.com/video/LgQca4WxGM4/v-deo.html *Robert McKee* - "A Lesson by Robert McKee on 10 traits of faulty dialogue - Part 1": ua-cam.com/video/xAhSc6akNPo/v-deo.html All featured in *Dark Pixel Gaming* channel's video "Writing And Dialogue - Final Fantasy XIII Discussion (Part 1)": ua-cam.com/video/M_dYLDADwJU/v-deo.html You're welcome, people. ^___^'
audio books really show up bad dialog, and bad writing in general somehow. My pet peeve is writers who cant use anything other than said. 'hello' john said. 'hello' bob said. 'hello bob and john' fred said.
It's possible to leave off dialogue attributions once the number of persons and the speaking order is well established, and this is generally preferable to drawing attention to the attribution because that way the focus is on the dialogue. If you're careful about how you construct dialogue, you can even avoid initial attribution sometimes without losing clarity: "Hello, Bob," said John. "Hello." "Hey Bob! John," said Fred. "What are you to standing around for? Show's about to start. Come on!" Using other words, such as 'screamed' or 'whispered,' may occasionally be appropriate, but it is almost never appropriate to use such words frequently. The same goes for adverbs -- 'said shakily,' or 'said angrily.' It's usually better to craft the dialogue or the surrounding prose such that those are implied. For example: "How dare you invite her without asking me!" Adding a 'said angrily' would be redundant, and it would function as a tell rather than a show. If you need to add an adverb, the dialogue is probably weak. On the other hand, you might need an adverb if the dialogue implies the opposite tone -- "I love you," she said angrily. (But, once again, it's usually better to craft the surrounding prose such that you don't need the adverb).
Yep, I do like these tips and lists of stuff NOT to do... Of course, there's PLENTY of technique and tactics to take for building dialogue. I myself have a kind of system, especially for those conversations that are tougher in storyline. I see a few ideals about the methods in writing dialogue, but I haven't seen this listed just yet... First, I scratch out a sort of direction for the conversation. It's going to be helpful to get a firm idea of where you want to go with it. Along this general direction, I take some notes down about what NEEDS to be said, or rather "communicated"... Now, here's where I point out that any scene of interactions, there's more to communicating than just the dialogue. There's also body language, actions and gestures, and even (sometimes) more about what's NOT being said that holds greater meaning that what IS being said... aloud anyways... SO notes about what is COMMUNICATED, doesn't necessarily have to be about what to SAY. Second, I like to dig right into the process of the conversation. I go ahead and include the emotional stuff (knowing it gets removed) as dialogue and tease out how to literally SAY EVERYTHING... In script-writing they tend to call it "On the nose" dialogue, and it's only TERRIBLE technique if you leave it. So this is draft stuff, and you're doing it ENTIRELY to rewrite it better. (don't worry that's not hard...lolz) Third, I (personally) kind of tend to combine this with "forth" but for clarity, I'll separate it as it's own step. I take more notes... See, once I've got everything spoken out "On the nose", I read it and re-do my original notes based on "what's likely workable" (what can be fixed as normal human language) and what's irretrievably STUPID... or even just plain BAD... This set of notes, however, is all about HOW we're still going to communicate the points involved... It helps here, to have either colored ink pens and hilighters, OR you can collect multi-colored note-papers, even sticky-notes are good in multiple colors... You can color-code the notes here for "Stuff being said" and "Stuff being done" and "Essential facial expressions" and "Voice/Tone/Rhythm" and any other way to express a purposeful point where you might find it useful outside of direct speech or obvious character activity. Forth, I get the scene rewritten as a more complete whole piece. Using the second set of notes, I try to get everything said and explained for the reader with the intent of the conversation (goal) accomplished, and in a relatively realistic or human way of doing or saying it all. It's time-consuming and tedious as hell when you deal with stuff that isn't normal or at least "normal to you", but it also doesn't even have to be perfect yet. This is the step that gets the whole process to a first actually functioning scene with dialogue instead of an abstract concept of what you (writer) want the dialogue to say... BECAUSE sometimes what you think you want it to say, simply shouldn't be said "in so many words" with dialogue alone. AND I know, it sounds almost unreasonably heavy in labor. Keep in mind, this is for actually "difficult" conversational scenes. This isn't the obvious parts of story-based dialogue where a couple characters are tear-assing down the street in a stolen car on the wrong end of town in the middle of night being chased by a huge biker gang with machine guns... Everyone knows that kind of dialogue is going to be "overtly punchy" and full of profanity-laced one-liners and witty insults about everyone... This is a process for the deeper and more character-driven or plot-driven dialogue. It's about exposing enough information in a dense enough manner to bring the scene through to its goal, without insulting the reader's intelligence, screwing up the characters in their development or disrupting the whole story to go back and retcon a backstory that's already hopelessly out of proportion to the issues at hand. If you find yourself with a character backstory that's more interesting than the manuscript you're working on, YOU might have a bigger problem than one conversation is ever going to fix... but that's a whole different kettle of fish all together. In any case, I only share what I'd freely and happily give away. This was (after all) freely and happily shared with me... and I do wish anyone who even tries it, the very best of luck with it. Though a tad of caution, it does take practice and work, too. ;o)
The last wish, when Geralt confronts that monster at that cabin.. that was engaging. The house moves to the creatures commands, and his ol neighbors run in terror, but even Geralt has to stick around to see wtf this gruesome monster has to say. Gregor the overlander, read that when I was younger and the characters did kinda dull the moment with talking, but the villain-ish character in the group lightens the situation if it gets to dark. Books with depth haha XD
Well i sometimes use lines like "I'm scared" though usually in inner Monologe like thoughts. Or later in dialog. Like i had a scene i still liked despite outspoken emotionsq. Like her being threatened by a fellow student. She clearly states "I've been scared. I'm still scared" while her boyfriend is like "I'll better stay right here. Or I'll do something stupid" though i admit that is just the dialog the scene itself had body language. Like her crying making herself small while he's literally shaking. So here it was on purpose. Cause well that scene is pretty much leading up to the main conflict. Or better the big blow up. Cause the conflict is given it's school life all through the story (in that genre conflict pretty much must be clear on the third line of text) but when finally something happens it needs setup. Like aggression can't come out of nowhere. That scene was meant to build that aggression up. So if talking about emotions makes sense characterwise and is helpful to the plot. It's a good thing as long as emotions are also shown and as long as there are other emotions visible. Or functional parts of the relationship between characters. Like lisa my main character getting closer to her boyfriend. Talking about emotions imho is alright if it is human and it doesn't make the character feel one-dimensional
Funny how I'm not even a real writer yet I instinctively avoid doing these flaws most of the time (I kinda skip over dialogue tho, but that's during action sequences cuz I'm kinda too lazy to write action sequences, but I can still avoid these problems when I'm doing the effort), at the same time when I was a lil kid I could guess math lessons way ahead of time, sometimes a year or two ahead, so I instinctively did the same with writing movies probably, I just watch stuff, understand the basic logic by connecting the dots and finding consistent rules
Thanks David, have you considered doing a video geared at younger aspiring writers? Young: like high school or jr high age? Maybe even aspiring elementary age kids. I have an 11 yr old who shows a great interest in story telling. So i am trying to translate some of your video topics to his level. (It's More bonding time for sure, hehe) Keep up the great work!!
I could be forgiving of the Senate expediting to Amidala if Amidala would be like "I may be young, but I know what's going on. Stop treating me like a kid"
'The cat's out of the bag' is from Medieval Europe where some produce was sold in sacks. Some merchants cheated and put cats instead, since these would be cheaper than some produce. 'Never buy a pig in a poke' (a poke being a bag or sack) meaning 'Never buy something you don't know what it is' also comes from this practice. Anyway, as the narrator says, using this phrase in Feudal Japan would be incorrect but it is acceptable for historical novels set in Medieval Europe.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all but as I watched with video I thought of a couple of movies that (at least to me) seemed to break these guidelines but still somehow came across as great movies: "Burn After Reading" and "The Big Lebowski". I still remember walking out of "The BIg Lewbowski" and wondering WTF was the point of that movie but at the same time loving it. In both the movies I mentioned it seems like the whole story was completely pointless and the characters just bumbled about foolishly and almost randomly. It was all characterization with no meaningful plot but still the movies were interesting and entertaining. (I loved both.)
Hi. Do you have video about how to differentiate dialog and thought process (thoughts) at the same time for same character? Could I use simple italics for thoughts and normal font for dialog?
This reading-out-loud thing does only partly work for my story because it's High Fantasy and in that world there are other languages. That means through reading it out loud I only know what it sounds like for the reader, but not for the characters.
I have a question: If you have eg. a Isekai world of some sort (Protagonist lands in a different world) and a character gives information on eg the world to the protagonist, that doesn't know anything about that world, is that a dialogue sin and how can you avoid stuff like that without leaving the reader with too many questions about the world the story takes place?
Hey David Stewart, without giving me to much information/personal, how much money do you make it ebook sales? Roughly enough to cover the cost of making more? Or is it really a passion project? I want an idea what I could expect.
That's a more complicated question than you probably realize. Let me do a video on it since I'm already writing a wall of text. Really short version - If you do what most other "indie" authors do, expect to lose a lot of money. My books have near zero costs, with 100% of the cost being time and the cost of licensing images for covers. I do zero advertising (right now, at least). Every book I sell is profit. I might have a fraction of the sales of other authors and end up with the same profits. Most people spend hundreds, if not thousands, to bring a book to market and then not sell any copies. Most people also expect to write a single book and then make money magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes a long time to build up the back catalog and presence to even make a small amount of income. Books are a highly scalable business - the top 1% make 99% of the money. Being in that 1% is almost entirely a function of unpredictable factors. Don't expect to be in the 1%. It's best if you write books because they are stories you care about and because you enjoy working the business and learning about it (that's my perspective, at least). It's the same thing with music. If you're smart you can avoid all the mistakes of others and come out at least in the black.
Actually exposition is something ive been struggling with for a particular book im writing, this ome has an enpurmas backstory and there are certain things that the reader needs to know relatively early into the start of it and i just cant find a way to relay that to them and i definitely want to avoid the page 1 wall of text
Maybe (it's just a thought here) YOU feel the need to expose more information to the reader (audience?) than they actually NEED to know initially... Then the answer might be better written after a point where this "backstory" knowledge is necessarily pertinent, letting the reader get through a difficult few pages of story, entering a personal judgment (even against the protagonist) until there's an excuse (legitimately) to reveal the deeper reason WHY the protagonist did "that" in relation to the past... For instance, Protag'-A gets the opportunity to buy a man's freedom (for whatever clause at the time) and she asks him a question. He stares at her in shock for a few seconds, and she shrugs and raises a hand "thumb-down" and walks away while the man is deftly lynched by the prison-keep. A few pages later, she's talking to the piano player in the saloon, and he's asking her about the guy she could've bought. The bastard rode with the gang she's looking for. To whit, she shrugs and replies something like, "Well, since he left before they had the rope around my neck, he just assumed the gang killed me after raping me. He never expected to see me again." Thus explaining why she let the guy hang, vendetta and all... The reader might've originally thought she's just against prisoners getting out of their sentence, or that she had some past with the guy, but you only necessarily reveal her hate is bigger than even giving one of those people the chance at freedom, even for help... Of course, this could also hint that she's possibly too hell-bent for her own good, or even thoughtless about the strategy... BUT keep in mind it's a toss for a YT commentary, not an entry for Pulitzer. ;o)
gnarth d'arkanen well you might be onto something there, at least id read it :) however my problem is less with the characters but rather with the state of the world, there are certain reasons the world is the way it is that are common knowledge within the story but the readers wouldnt necissarily know going in honestly im debating on starting it without it but at the same time i dont want to vonfuse the readers
Well, it is still just a thought. BUT I do believe you might be fairly well served in setting up notes and breaking up the exposition within the story... Sure, you can do some modest exposition at the beginning, but we didn't entirely need the floating wall... er... floor of text at the beginning of Star Wars (for instance) ... That was as much to do with the genre-specific atmosphere of the movies and then became trademark. Mel Brooks even made fun of it in "Spaceballs"... I understand the intentions in world-building. It's a tough road to pursue, with too little information about the way things are being confusing, and too much just getting in the way of story or even insulting readers' intelligence... In the end... however you decide to meter it out or dive into it, maybe test it in excerpts with friends, see where they get confused and where they can make "intuitive leaps" because logic still works. It is tricky to figure in just enough useful basic knowledge to assure readers "We're definitely NOT in Kansas anymore" and then chopping the rest of expository type information and scatter it out... Sometimes just before the "big scene" where THAT information is really relevant, kind of like a "neat reveal" or even right as the scene unfolds... BUT break it up from time to time with those sometimes punchy "Wish I'd have known that a minute or two (pages) ago!" moments too. This can keep you from being predictable and readers (from what I'm told anyways) tend to appreciate that. You're still well advised to even bribe people to read the thing and talk to you about it. Friends can read (and will) for beers and brat's or something and some of the technically skilled ones might even enjoy doing you the favor with their own note-taking... Of course, it can also be bartered... "I'll read your work and trade you notes on it, if you'll read mine"... ;o)
I would definitely suggest (then) that you at least pass the thing to one friend(ly)... It's fine to admit that it's just a draft, and explain how you're not really sure where to go or how you want to get there with it yet, BUT try to avoid too much "introduction"... and then let them time and peace to focus on the work... I know it sounds like (or reads like?) the obvious... It's tougher than you might expect to make yourself hand over a work and then sit quiet and let the work speak for itself... However, if you're hoping to sell it, that's exactly what it MUST be able to do... Okay, I had to find a few notes of my own...(lolz) but you might also find some useful help at a couple channels I dubiously "try to keep up with"... Jenna Moreci A PUBLISHED writer. She's also got attitude and seems genuine in her efforts to impart from her experience in the business what you'll find more helpful than the usual blather about "do this not that" kinds of things... MyMangakaLife Done by Lizbeth Jimenez, a published (Barnes and Noble space-holder) Manga artist... She's fun and keeps most of her lessons helpful and simple to follow in case you're interested in breaking into the graphic art focused literary scene... Film Courage More of an academic approach, this channel deals with interviewing film makers, Indie as well as Industry Pro's. Some of the interviews and seminary presentations are over an hour (admittedly) and it tends more toward cinematic writing, BUT the importance of story and structure as covered here can be broken down into really helpful and simpler terms than I've normally thought about... {Official Disclaimer} Some of my own interests (as eclectic as I am) are not entirely informative or helpful to EVERYONE, but I think you'll have a good chance to step up your game checking these out. There's stuff about character building, craft supplies, process, proof reading versus editing, and further tips and pointers for getting serious on the writing game... Hope it helps you along your way. ;o)
I would agree about expositional dialogue. However, I wonder whether some readers actually need stuff spelled out for them. Like if they don't have the intellect to infer things. I remember when I was a little kid I read a book, St Winifred's or The World of School, by Dean Frederic Farrar. When the head boy was disciplining one of the villain boys, another monitor says this: "He's very plucky and firm. But he's so dictatorial and unpersuasive." Even when I was ten, I would have replied: "Shut up. I could infer that for myself." But many audiences can't seem to grasp anything which is subtle. With one of my essay pieces, the heroine has a devious sister, but everyone except my clique on fictionpress took her literally.
It's undeniable that some people DO need things spelled out for them, and expositional dialogue is necessary in lots of places for efficiency (particularly in the visual medium, where you don't have prose to explain things). There are definite ways to make it work, though. Generally, expositional dialogue is bad when the audience realizes that the characters are saying things to each other that they already know for the benefit of the audience.
an interesting idea of how to find out if your exposition works or not is the "dead mother setting". So basically how it works is you find a way to inform the viewer, or reader, or whatever that a character's mother is dead in the most natural way possible. You change the original message you wanted to give to this dead mother. Does it work? Does it seem natural? If so, great, if not rewrite it. I'm not gonna give any examples ,bc I'm no writer, I just learned this through watching youtube videos
Agree on WOT dialogue. The books could be halved and be a much better story. Some of the books are almost just meaningless dialogue. Two or three books could have been successfully compressed into one book and then some. Need a readers digest edition. :-) Oh and the following books after Dune. Got to the end of one and must have missed the actual story.
When I read the first Harry Potter book (as a dad) it was a bit raw but it was fun with some great ideas and some sound morality. By the time I got to the fourth book and characters were STILL SHOUTING IN CAPITALS instead of using language to explain the mood and I found that Harry had become this whiney brat and that frankly I was hoping that Voldemort would kill him I realised that it was time to read the kids something else.
I've been working to write only dialogue that drives the narrative and not just because it sounds cool. I read lots of mundane or overly emotive dialogue for the situation. I don't care if Lisa doesn't want to take out the garbage and tells her parents so. I only care if when she's in the act of doing it, she gets eaten midsentence!
You forgot the scene where Hux says "We'll destroy the government that funds the Resistance, the Republic. Without their support, the Resistance will be vulnerable". And then Snoke says to Kylo "The droid is in the hands of your father, Han Solo."
If you're not familiar with common idiom and slang of the period or people, just write in plain English. Your audience can fill in character with their imaginations.
Or using using very modern words like Gender for the social sex in a American Civil War era Novel or earlier. They didn't use that word in that sense even in 1926 and now you expect us to believe that a Character in the 1860's talked like that? I've seen that a few times and it just destroy's immersion.
Read it out loud but try not to do it while marching up a hill with your dog with a woman in earshot while you are talking about how your prosthetic arm has a gun in it.
What about working with fictional cultural and societal normative traits in dialog, where it is partially influenced by reality (unavoidable) but lax in terms of adhering to it? Like for example I make a fictional representation of something akin to feudal Japan called Yipon or something, allow for some influences like say architecture, government and general popular trends from Japan to signify that but at the same token allow for phrases like "cat's outta the bag" to be said as a typical phrase. Would that be acceptable or would it be too jarring to the audience?
@SMH SMH: Well my presupposition is that when creating fictional environments, customs of language would be taken as granted to the fictional universe despite very strong influences from real world establishments. My question wasn't form a place of me thinking that sort of thing would be jarring, it was in response to David Stewart's advice on customs of a language needing to be taken into account to relate to an audience thus presenting essentially a proposition figuring out the exception to it in theme I guess... For example I don't really mind that the culture of a fictional nation uses colloquial language associated with Texas even though the design elements are largely influenced by Germany or what have you.
I disagree with what you said about Wheel of Time personally, at least when it came to Perrin, but only because he's my favorite character, I see your point otherwise.
I have different two kinds of dialogue I've gotten to the point of recognizing enough to dislike. Joss Whedon dialogue is witty or cynical dialogue where the characters are saying something biting and on point in any situation. It's particularly difficult to stomach when the characters are in a life or death situation and coming out with carefully formulated retorts and remarks. But what ruins this kind of story telling is all your characters end up sounding like spoilt teenage girls. I end up wanting to tell them off for being stupid. A far more common and far more annoying kind of dialgoue is the stereotypical stilted dramatic hollywood lines. American media in general has this insanely annoying way of over-pronouncing every sentence coming out of someone's mouth (for ease of understanding perhaps), followed by a short pause, followed by a response that's about as far away from a conversation as one can get. When people are in a conversation, particularly one they're actively interested in, there isn't that sentence-pause-response structure, people tend to intersperse what they want to say or respond immediately after a sentence. Many people go so far as clipping into the presumably last word of a sentence to get their point across. English media and to a lesser extent international media more realistically remove these awkward pauses in dialogue and are more willing to talk in the varied cadence that nearly anyone that isn't a news caster talks in. Some people talk so fast that what they're saying is more implied than certain and youtube auto-generated subtitles is actually the perfect example that people rarely properly speak words, muddling R's and D's, forgetting to apply 'S' and yet we have no issue understanding them. A significant aspect of speech that goes unnoticed is people's innate ability to translate something someone said by understanding the context and direction of someone's speech (something youtube auto-translate does not do, hence being innacurate). On the other hand lots of canned media for TV and film scarily close to a robot pretending to be human. It's particularly egregious that they use this kind of careful cadence and over-pronunciation in dramatic moments, innately removing the vast majority of emotion or intent they're attempting to convey in the character. I don't even need to list any particular examples, once pointed out, the majority of western or Hollywood content is packed full of robotic language, it seems to be trained into media personnel and actors and sounds absolutely awful. In the modern age I'd have to say it's the biggest issue I have with dialogue.
Not dialogue per sé, but it's very annoying when everything that everyone says is emphasized as them saying it. "I don't see anything." Says Tom. Peter turns and says: "Look, over there, by the bushes." "Oh thére," says Tom and walks over to the contraption. "Careful," says Peter. Etc etc.
I couldn't disagree more on your Episode I example. Sitting around and discussing what the Trade Federation would do and talking about the corruption of the Senate is exactly what Amidala and her ministers would and I know that because it's the exact kind of conversation that real world people have about politics and current events everyday. "X politician/party/government/company is like this, so they're going to do y in response to this event" is something just about everyone who's ever talked politics has said and heard from someone else whether everybody in the conversation knew what the subject is like already or not.
Capitan Spoiler thou mother is very portly that she carries the carriage instead of the carriage carrying her. *the other guy draws a sword and comments back starting a thou mother fight*
Ha ha, what a story, Mark.
Let's go eat HAN?
"Anyway, hows your sex life?"
"people die if they are killed"
Best dialogue when out of context hit all points 😂😂
almost as good as: just because your correct doesnt mean your right
julian schuurman, sounds like something some SJW would actually say
@@sanny8716 you know... thats suprisingly accurate
@@suffering1901 I mean the meaning was suppose to be the opposite of his father's.
Kiritsugu was correct, he saved people by killing others, the life of the many outweighs the view.
Whereas Shirou does not trade lives, incontext it makes sense.
@@boxtupos7718 well i agree with your point but you should replace kiritsugu with archer because the point of that line is critique archers way of thinking not kiritsugu's (even tho he also critiques kiritsugu's way of thinking without him knowing) because he doesnt know how kiritsugu was before he was adopted by him
You're tearing me APAHT, David!! **throws down water bottle**
Since you mentioned cliche idioms, I have to say, one cliche that I *ALWAYS* like is the person who can never say an idiom correctly.
"It is as they say, the bag is now cat-less"
"Do you mean, 'the cat is out of the bag'?"
"That is what I said, no?"
I read that in Christopher Judge's voice. If you never watched Stargate SG1, you need to.
This is why I initially subscribed, for the creative writing tips.
William Sleight Ikr!
Rian Johnson and Disney need to watch this video because they fell into every trap you described here with the new Star Wars trilogy.
Jarryd Cathcart Ikr
Because they're writing propaganda, not stories.
Confucius say: _”If feline spring from satchel, very hard indeed to return.”_
I’ve been accused of writing cheesy dialogue by an ex girlfriend. I think she’s confusing cheesy and epic
I hate sand.
It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.
No wonder she's an ex-girlfriend.
Hallie Cantor i know right. That should have been a red flag
lol
Here's an example of expositional dialogue via 'Better Call Saul's writing staff: "How long have we been brothers?"
I did not hit her, it's bullshit! I did nawt!
About the emotion talk, compare to a masterfully written movie like Once Upon a Time in the West. When Harmonica pays a visit to Wobbles after the initial confrontation of the movie (Wobbles arranged the meeting). Harmonica spends about 2 minutes of screen time beating the crap out of Wobbles, and then Bronson delivers a line... "You know Wobbles.....I'm kinda mad at you.".
The delivery is perfect, sardonic and threatening at the same time, and the "here are my emotions" dialogue loses any potential cheesyness by punctuating a 2-minute long beating.
That last piece of advice on writing good dialogue is golden! We create dramatized audiobooks and the novel is more of a by-product for us. As a result, we have always altered the novel while recording the audiobook! Not the entire plotline, but mostly dialogue. Sometimes things just sound 'off' and you don't know why. You want to fix the lines based on how they sound when you pronounce them. Recording your novel is also a great way to spot annoying word repetitions. That is why we can't publish a novel, not even on Patreon, before all of it has at least been recorded. As for how to avoid writing bad dialogue: just watch The Room and... don't do that. :-)
Oh, hey David!
This is very good advice. I sometimes edit for other writers and the main things they do wrong are over-characterization, small talk, and info-dump. I usually recommend that the author put the dialogue in scene where the characters are in action. If you're writing a fantasy, e.g., the man can sharpen his knife or sword or chop wood while the woman cuts vegetables for the pot.
watching folks talk about movies with bad character development brought me to your channel, awesome info.
Thank you!
I have Facebook friends who talk about their lives sometimes. They'd fit the description of hard men who've seen a lot of violence, but their defining characteristic is how quiet and restrained they are. Of course you get the punk kids who want a reputation but the real scary guys are the polite, softly spoken ones, whose reaction to a loud noise is for one hand to come up towards the sound, deflecting a potential attack, while the other flies to a concealed weapon. They don't go looking for trouble, and trouble tries to avoid them.
You are tearing me apart David!
I know an autistic heavy metal fan, and it's like his life revolves around metal, and bashing other genres. And once he starts talking about it, he just does not stop.
Anthony Stewart Head might be the best exposition actor out there. He had to tell Buffy the world ending conditions every episode or so. He always delivered.
When you mentioned Spider-Man I was so happy that you explained how and why his quips are good in the comics. I feel like the new content we are getting with Spider-Man just blows that quality about him out of the water. Making him very annoying and silly. I wish they would fix this along with all the other problems he has now adays.
Thank you! I had a creative writing teacher who said you need to do all exposition through dialogue. My response was, "But the characters wouldn't stand around telling each other stuff they already know. That's not realistic!" A little exposition in the narrative can make a story so much easier to read.
Ah, the Wheel of Time series. The Moby Dick of fantasy.
I really appreciate your comment on over-characterization. When I write I often feel pressured to make each character always sound like themselves, so as not to produce "generic" dialogue, but now I'm thinking that might be a mistake. The hardest thing for me though is handling idioms. It's very difficult to write dialogue that sounds natural without occasionally resorting to idioms, but I have the hardest time choosing ones that seem appropriate to the characters without sounding cheesy. And if you're writing say, historical fantasy in a world with a unique religious system, it's really hard to choose the right expletives. They can't exactly say "oh my god!" or "what the hell do you think you're doing!" if you've written god and hell out of the story. Trying to make the characters say "zounds!" or "good gracious!" is just way too cheesy, and if the story's in a medieval setting you have anachronisms to worry about. You can't have a viking say he "blew his fuse" because they didn't have electrical fuses back then, and if you have him say he "lost his s - - -" it sounds like he's using modern slang that would be out of place in the middle ages. See what I mean?
Yes, especially in the realm of swearing in peculiar eras... It's tough...
I think the trick is kind of like teaching the audience (reader) the "new language" of the setting... so to say.
In the movie "Caveman" with Ringo Starr (yeah, I'm that outdated)... there was only one character in the whole movie that spoke "English" and he was Asian...
Everyone else spoke "caveman" but between body language (mime-ish) and context of the scenes you (audience) didn't commit to a study in linguistics to start to understand it... I mean, honestly, what else could "zug-zug" possibly mean? Right?
So it pays to be picky about what "sounds" like a swear, and then use other characters (even window-dressing types) to react in light of the "awful sacrilege" to impress the point. In a couple repetitions, either you'll have hopelessly "Dr. Seuss'ed" the thing into ridicule, or you'll be on the way to teaching the audience to swear "properly". ;o)
David, I have no interest in most topics you create videos on yet I cant stop watching :) Bravo
Love your videos, still have loads to watch and re-watch. Having contemplated with myself on writing a story stepping up from just writing music, I have fallen into so many of these traps already just in my mental framework, thank you for the good work.
Yeah, you know, I really liked Needle and Ash, not for the plot, but for the characters and how they interacted with each other. I’m not going to wrk you off, I vaguely remember the plot barely being there except as a vehicle for the characters to exist. But the exhaustion of the battles, the implied aggravation with that time of desperation in some instances....grrrr, I was there with them, like a another Joe Footsoldier.
I'm glad you liked them.
Oh, hi David
The nutshell about expository dialogue is: don't disrespect your audience. Always be mindful of what your characters know and what they know other people know. Don't take lazy shortcuts that make your story easier to write but make the dialogue sound stilted and unnatural, like a Japanese anime.
"Hey Tom, remember when dad died?"
"Yeah, he was killed by the Empire, mother was very sad about it."
"Now we will take revenge on the Empire."
"Yes, we will, Bob."
Japanese anime... Is there any other? Also that is audiovisual media, is more viable to do that kind of exposition dialogue than to animate it, especially on a budget. And on average, they're better at visually expressing something than western tv.
How is that dialogue unnatural though?
This helps my comic loads. Thank you! Really enjoying the storytelling advice videos.
Complementary videos for those interested in further conversation below.
*Channel Criswell* - "The Social Network - Designing Dialogue":
ua-cam.com/video/dxOECOtYeZc/v-deo.html
*Jacob Krueger Studio* - "How to Write Great Dialogue":
ua-cam.com/video/lGnLtMKIOZc/v-deo.html
*The Walrus* - "Four Simple Rules for Writing Dialogue by Robert Wiersema":
ua-cam.com/video/wAj1hAGc3zs/v-deo.html
*StoryLogue* - "Robert McKee: 10 Problems To Avoid With Dialogue In Screenplays":
ua-cam.com/video/LgQca4WxGM4/v-deo.html
*Robert McKee* - "A Lesson by Robert McKee on 10 traits of faulty dialogue - Part 1":
ua-cam.com/video/xAhSc6akNPo/v-deo.html
All featured in *Dark Pixel Gaming* channel's video "Writing And Dialogue - Final Fantasy XIII Discussion (Part 1)":
ua-cam.com/video/M_dYLDADwJU/v-deo.html
You're welcome, people. ^___^'
audio books really show up bad dialog, and bad writing in general somehow.
My pet peeve is writers who cant use anything other than said.
'hello' john said.
'hello' bob said.
'hello bob and john' fred said.
Elmore Leonard said never to use any verb besides said. It's just there to mark the dialogue and who said it.
Someone ought to hello Fred too
"Said" is very annoying, and is either redundant or a missed opportunity to liven up the conversation. I also avoid "it" at almost any cost.
It's possible to leave off dialogue attributions once the number of persons and the speaking order is well established, and this is generally preferable to drawing attention to the attribution because that way the focus is on the dialogue. If you're careful about how you construct dialogue, you can even avoid initial attribution sometimes without losing clarity:
"Hello, Bob," said John.
"Hello."
"Hey Bob! John," said Fred. "What are you to standing around for? Show's about to start. Come on!"
Using other words, such as 'screamed' or 'whispered,' may occasionally be appropriate, but it is almost never appropriate to use such words frequently. The same goes for adverbs -- 'said shakily,' or 'said angrily.' It's usually better to craft the dialogue or the surrounding prose such that those are implied. For example: "How dare you invite her without asking me!" Adding a 'said angrily' would be redundant, and it would function as a tell rather than a show. If you need to add an adverb, the dialogue is probably weak.
On the other hand, you might need an adverb if the dialogue implies the opposite tone -- "I love you," she said angrily. (But, once again, it's usually better to craft the surrounding prose such that you don't need the adverb).
'hello' Bob ejaculated.
Good point about overcharacterization and Wheel of Time! I think you can see it in the first 4 books (action focused) vs most of the rest.
As someone with Aspergers, dialogue is one of the hardest things for me to write.
These videos are very helpful and informative. Thanks!
Yep, I do like these tips and lists of stuff NOT to do...
Of course, there's PLENTY of technique and tactics to take for building dialogue. I myself have a kind of system, especially for those conversations that are tougher in storyline. I see a few ideals about the methods in writing dialogue, but I haven't seen this listed just yet...
First, I scratch out a sort of direction for the conversation. It's going to be helpful to get a firm idea of where you want to go with it. Along this general direction, I take some notes down about what NEEDS to be said, or rather "communicated"...
Now, here's where I point out that any scene of interactions, there's more to communicating than just the dialogue. There's also body language, actions and gestures, and even (sometimes) more about what's NOT being said that holds greater meaning that what IS being said... aloud anyways...
SO notes about what is COMMUNICATED, doesn't necessarily have to be about what to SAY.
Second, I like to dig right into the process of the conversation. I go ahead and include the emotional stuff (knowing it gets removed) as dialogue and tease out how to literally SAY EVERYTHING... In script-writing they tend to call it "On the nose" dialogue, and it's only TERRIBLE technique if you leave it. So this is draft stuff, and you're doing it ENTIRELY to rewrite it better. (don't worry that's not hard...lolz)
Third, I (personally) kind of tend to combine this with "forth" but for clarity, I'll separate it as it's own step. I take more notes... See, once I've got everything spoken out "On the nose", I read it and re-do my original notes based on "what's likely workable" (what can be fixed as normal human language) and what's irretrievably STUPID... or even just plain BAD... This set of notes, however, is all about HOW we're still going to communicate the points involved... It helps here, to have either colored ink pens and hilighters, OR you can collect multi-colored note-papers, even sticky-notes are good in multiple colors...
You can color-code the notes here for "Stuff being said" and "Stuff being done" and "Essential facial expressions" and "Voice/Tone/Rhythm" and any other way to express a purposeful point where you might find it useful outside of direct speech or obvious character activity.
Forth, I get the scene rewritten as a more complete whole piece. Using the second set of notes, I try to get everything said and explained for the reader with the intent of the conversation (goal) accomplished, and in a relatively realistic or human way of doing or saying it all. It's time-consuming and tedious as hell when you deal with stuff that isn't normal or at least "normal to you", but it also doesn't even have to be perfect yet. This is the step that gets the whole process to a first actually functioning scene with dialogue instead of an abstract concept of what you (writer) want the dialogue to say... BECAUSE sometimes what you think you want it to say, simply shouldn't be said "in so many words" with dialogue alone.
AND I know, it sounds almost unreasonably heavy in labor. Keep in mind, this is for actually "difficult" conversational scenes. This isn't the obvious parts of story-based dialogue where a couple characters are tear-assing down the street in a stolen car on the wrong end of town in the middle of night being chased by a huge biker gang with machine guns... Everyone knows that kind of dialogue is going to be "overtly punchy" and full of profanity-laced one-liners and witty insults about everyone...
This is a process for the deeper and more character-driven or plot-driven dialogue. It's about exposing enough information in a dense enough manner to bring the scene through to its goal, without insulting the reader's intelligence, screwing up the characters in their development or disrupting the whole story to go back and retcon a backstory that's already hopelessly out of proportion to the issues at hand. If you find yourself with a character backstory that's more interesting than the manuscript you're working on, YOU might have a bigger problem than one conversation is ever going to fix... but that's a whole different kettle of fish all together.
In any case, I only share what I'd freely and happily give away. This was (after all) freely and happily shared with me... and I do wish anyone who even tries it, the very best of luck with it. Though a tad of caution, it does take practice and work, too. ;o)
Oh hi, David!
What's new with you?
I DID NOT HIT HER. I DID NOT!
The last wish, when Geralt confronts that monster at that cabin.. that was engaging. The house moves to the creatures commands, and his ol neighbors run in terror, but even Geralt has to stick around to see wtf this gruesome monster has to say. Gregor the overlander, read that when I was younger and the characters did kinda dull the moment with talking, but the villain-ish character in the group lightens the situation if it gets to dark. Books with depth haha XD
The dialogue test is a good one. "Would a human say this?" could of saved many bad genre flicks.
Him: talks about characters not shutting up about a certain subject making them awkward.
Me who won't stop talking about movies:...
Indeed. The true character of a person is provoked or revealed by difficult or important events, not by the day-to-day, mundane activities.
Another great video ---with some very valuable tips...
Well i sometimes use lines like "I'm scared" though usually in inner Monologe like thoughts. Or later in dialog. Like i had a scene i still liked despite outspoken emotionsq. Like her being threatened by a fellow student. She clearly states "I've been scared. I'm still scared" while her boyfriend is like "I'll better stay right here. Or I'll do something stupid" though i admit that is just the dialog the scene itself had body language. Like her crying making herself small while he's literally shaking. So here it was on purpose. Cause well that scene is pretty much leading up to the main conflict. Or better the big blow up. Cause the conflict is given it's school life all through the story (in that genre conflict pretty much must be clear on the third line of text) but when finally something happens it needs setup. Like aggression can't come out of nowhere. That scene was meant to build that aggression up. So if talking about emotions makes sense characterwise and is helpful to the plot. It's a good thing as long as emotions are also shown and as long as there are other emotions visible. Or functional parts of the relationship between characters. Like lisa my main character getting closer to her boyfriend. Talking about emotions imho is alright if it is human and it doesn't make the character feel one-dimensional
Funny how I'm not even a real writer yet I instinctively avoid doing these flaws most of the time (I kinda skip over dialogue tho, but that's during action sequences cuz I'm kinda too lazy to write action sequences, but I can still avoid these problems when I'm doing the effort), at the same time when I was a lil kid I could guess math lessons way ahead of time, sometimes a year or two ahead, so I instinctively did the same with writing movies probably, I just watch stuff, understand the basic logic by connecting the dots and finding consistent rules
I would like to buy all of your work. This advice is great.
Very helpfull!! thank God I found you
Welcome!
Thanks David, have you considered doing a video geared at younger aspiring writers? Young: like high school or jr high age? Maybe even aspiring elementary age kids.
I have an 11 yr old who shows a great interest in story telling. So i am trying to translate some of your video topics to his level. (It's More bonding time for sure, hehe)
Keep up the great work!!
I haven't, but it's a good idea.
"Are you an angel?"
Thanks David this helps a lot!
Ready Player One made all these mistakes. So naturally it gets a movie. :)
More story tips please!
Record your voice speaking the lines of dialogue and listen to it. If it sounds bad it probably is.
I could be forgiving of the Senate expediting to Amidala if Amidala would be like "I may be young, but I know what's going on. Stop treating me like a kid"
Robert McKee’s Dialogue and Story novels. There you go I saved you a lot of questions.
The thumbnail is so good :) and, as always, great content, David.
I recite it all in my head, if it feels cheesy or stupid, down the chopping block it goes!
'The cat's out of the bag' is from Medieval Europe where some produce was sold in sacks. Some merchants cheated and put cats instead, since these would be cheaper than some produce.
'Never buy a pig in a poke' (a poke being a bag or sack) meaning 'Never buy something you don't know what it is' also comes from this practice.
Anyway, as the narrator says, using this phrase in Feudal Japan would be incorrect but it is acceptable for historical novels set in Medieval Europe.
Great info
I'm not disagreeing with you at all but as I watched with video I thought of a couple of movies that (at least to me) seemed to break these guidelines but still somehow came across as great movies: "Burn After Reading" and "The Big Lebowski". I still remember walking out of "The BIg Lewbowski" and wondering WTF was the point of that movie but at the same time loving it. In both the movies I mentioned it seems like the whole story was completely pointless and the characters just bumbled about foolishly and almost randomly. It was all characterization with no meaningful plot but still the movies were interesting and entertaining. (I loved both.)
Hi. Do you have video about how to differentiate dialog and thought process (thoughts) at the same time for same character? Could I use simple italics for thoughts and normal font for dialog?
That's what I do.
Thanks.
This reading-out-loud thing does only partly work for my story because it's High Fantasy and in that world there are other languages. That means through reading it out loud I only know what it sounds like for the reader, but not for the characters.
I have a question: If you have eg. a Isekai world of some sort (Protagonist lands in a different world) and a character gives information on eg the world to the protagonist, that doesn't know anything about that world, is that a dialogue sin and how can you avoid stuff like that without leaving the reader with too many questions about the world the story takes place?
Hey David Stewart, without giving me to much information/personal, how much money do you make it ebook sales? Roughly enough to cover the cost of making more? Or is it really a passion project? I want an idea what I could expect.
That's a more complicated question than you probably realize. Let me do a video on it since I'm already writing a wall of text.
Really short version - If you do what most other "indie" authors do, expect to lose a lot of money. My books have near zero costs, with 100% of the cost being time and the cost of licensing images for covers. I do zero advertising (right now, at least). Every book I sell is profit. I might have a fraction of the sales of other authors and end up with the same profits.
Most people spend hundreds, if not thousands, to bring a book to market and then not sell any copies. Most people also expect to write a single book and then make money magically. It doesn't work that way. It takes a long time to build up the back catalog and presence to even make a small amount of income.
Books are a highly scalable business - the top 1% make 99% of the money. Being in that 1% is almost entirely a function of unpredictable factors. Don't expect to be in the 1%.
It's best if you write books because they are stories you care about and because you enjoy working the business and learning about it (that's my perspective, at least). It's the same thing with music. If you're smart you can avoid all the mistakes of others and come out at least in the black.
Actually exposition is something ive been struggling with for a particular book im writing, this ome has an enpurmas backstory and there are certain things that the reader needs to know relatively early into the start of it and i just cant find a way to relay that to them and i definitely want to avoid the page 1 wall of text
Maybe (it's just a thought here) YOU feel the need to expose more information to the reader (audience?) than they actually NEED to know initially... Then the answer might be better written after a point where this "backstory" knowledge is necessarily pertinent, letting the reader get through a difficult few pages of story, entering a personal judgment (even against the protagonist) until there's an excuse (legitimately) to reveal the deeper reason WHY the protagonist did "that" in relation to the past...
For instance, Protag'-A gets the opportunity to buy a man's freedom (for whatever clause at the time) and she asks him a question. He stares at her in shock for a few seconds, and she shrugs and raises a hand "thumb-down" and walks away while the man is deftly lynched by the prison-keep.
A few pages later, she's talking to the piano player in the saloon, and he's asking her about the guy she could've bought. The bastard rode with the gang she's looking for. To whit, she shrugs and replies something like, "Well, since he left before they had the rope around my neck, he just assumed the gang killed me after raping me. He never expected to see me again." Thus explaining why she let the guy hang, vendetta and all... The reader might've originally thought she's just against prisoners getting out of their sentence, or that she had some past with the guy, but you only necessarily reveal her hate is bigger than even giving one of those people the chance at freedom, even for help...
Of course, this could also hint that she's possibly too hell-bent for her own good, or even thoughtless about the strategy... BUT keep in mind it's a toss for a YT commentary, not an entry for Pulitzer. ;o)
gnarth d'arkanen well you might be onto something there, at least id read it :) however my problem is less with the characters but rather with the state of the world, there are certain reasons the world is the way it is that are common knowledge within the story but the readers wouldnt necissarily know going in honestly im debating on starting it without it but at the same time i dont want to vonfuse the readers
Well, it is still just a thought. BUT I do believe you might be fairly well served in setting up notes and breaking up the exposition within the story... Sure, you can do some modest exposition at the beginning, but we didn't entirely need the floating wall... er... floor of text at the beginning of Star Wars (for instance) ... That was as much to do with the genre-specific atmosphere of the movies and then became trademark. Mel Brooks even made fun of it in "Spaceballs"...
I understand the intentions in world-building. It's a tough road to pursue, with too little information about the way things are being confusing, and too much just getting in the way of story or even insulting readers' intelligence...
In the end... however you decide to meter it out or dive into it, maybe test it in excerpts with friends, see where they get confused and where they can make "intuitive leaps" because logic still works.
It is tricky to figure in just enough useful basic knowledge to assure readers "We're definitely NOT in Kansas anymore" and then chopping the rest of expository type information and scatter it out... Sometimes just before the "big scene" where THAT information is really relevant, kind of like a "neat reveal" or even right as the scene unfolds... BUT break it up from time to time with those sometimes punchy "Wish I'd have known that a minute or two (pages) ago!" moments too. This can keep you from being predictable and readers (from what I'm told anyways) tend to appreciate that.
You're still well advised to even bribe people to read the thing and talk to you about it. Friends can read (and will) for beers and brat's or something and some of the technically skilled ones might even enjoy doing you the favor with their own note-taking... Of course, it can also be bartered... "I'll read your work and trade you notes on it, if you'll read mine"... ;o)
gnarth d'arkanen That may work i haven't had anyone actually read this story yet at least not since the initial draft its changed a lot since then
I would definitely suggest (then) that you at least pass the thing to one friend(ly)... It's fine to admit that it's just a draft, and explain how you're not really sure where to go or how you want to get there with it yet, BUT try to avoid too much "introduction"... and then let them time and peace to focus on the work...
I know it sounds like (or reads like?) the obvious... It's tougher than you might expect to make yourself hand over a work and then sit quiet and let the work speak for itself... However, if you're hoping to sell it, that's exactly what it MUST be able to do...
Okay, I had to find a few notes of my own...(lolz) but you might also find some useful help at a couple channels I dubiously "try to keep up with"...
Jenna Moreci
A PUBLISHED writer. She's also got attitude and seems genuine in her efforts to impart from her experience in the business what you'll find more helpful than the usual blather about "do this not that" kinds of things...
MyMangakaLife
Done by Lizbeth Jimenez, a published (Barnes and Noble space-holder) Manga artist... She's fun and keeps most of her lessons helpful and simple to follow in case you're interested in breaking into the graphic art focused literary scene...
Film Courage
More of an academic approach, this channel deals with interviewing film makers, Indie as well as Industry Pro's. Some of the interviews and seminary presentations are over an hour (admittedly) and it tends more toward cinematic writing, BUT the importance of story and structure as covered here can be broken down into really helpful and simpler terms than I've normally thought about...
{Official Disclaimer} Some of my own interests (as eclectic as I am) are not entirely informative or helpful to EVERYONE, but I think you'll have a good chance to step up your game checking these out. There's stuff about character building, craft supplies, process, proof reading versus editing, and further tips and pointers for getting serious on the writing game... Hope it helps you along your way. ;o)
I would agree about expositional dialogue. However, I wonder whether some readers actually need stuff spelled out for them. Like if they don't have the intellect to infer things. I remember when I was a little kid I read a book, St Winifred's or The World of School, by Dean Frederic Farrar. When the head boy was disciplining one of the villain boys, another monitor says this: "He's very plucky and firm. But he's so dictatorial and unpersuasive." Even when I was ten, I would have replied: "Shut up. I could infer that for myself." But many audiences can't seem to grasp anything which is subtle.
With one of my essay pieces, the heroine has a devious sister, but everyone except my clique on fictionpress took her literally.
It's undeniable that some people DO need things spelled out for them, and expositional dialogue is necessary in lots of places for efficiency (particularly in the visual medium, where you don't have prose to explain things). There are definite ways to make it work, though. Generally, expositional dialogue is bad when the audience realizes that the characters are saying things to each other that they already know for the benefit of the audience.
an interesting idea of how to find out if your exposition works or not is the "dead mother setting". So basically how it works is you find a way to inform the viewer, or reader, or whatever that a character's mother is dead in the most natural way possible. You change the original message you wanted to give to this dead mother. Does it work? Does it seem natural? If so, great, if not rewrite it. I'm not gonna give any examples ,bc I'm no writer, I just learned this through watching youtube videos
Agree on WOT dialogue. The books could be halved and be a much better story.
Some of the books are almost just meaningless dialogue. Two or three books could have been successfully compressed into one book and then some. Need a readers digest edition. :-)
Oh and the following books after Dune. Got to the end of one and must have missed the actual story.
Damn i didn't make any of those mistskes. I must be pretty good ( I am).
Would love to see some more stuff about realistic novels.
Cheers
When I read the first Harry Potter book (as a dad) it was a bit raw but it was fun with some great ideas and some sound morality. By the time I got to the fourth book and characters were STILL SHOUTING IN CAPITALS instead of using language to explain the mood and I found that Harry had become this whiney brat and that frankly I was hoping that Voldemort would kill him I realised that it was time to read the kids something else.
Dialogue is one of the hardest things to write rofl.
Woop sub, excellent channel
Tyler Perry is an example of feelings
Nice advise, but the entire time, I was a bit distracted by this manly man with these beautiful nails.
I've been working to write only dialogue that drives the narrative and not just because it sounds cool. I read lots of mundane or overly emotive dialogue for the situation. I don't care if Lisa doesn't want to take out the garbage and tells her parents so. I only care if when she's in the act of doing it, she gets eaten midsentence!
You forgot the scene where Hux says "We'll destroy the government that funds the Resistance, the Republic. Without their support, the Resistance will be vulnerable". And then Snoke says to Kylo "The droid is in the hands of your father, Han Solo."
Star wars is awessome and a great cultural icon. Everybody should see it. However, lets agree, the writting is really just ok
If you're not familiar with common idiom and slang of the period or people, just write in plain English. Your audience can fill in character with their imaginations.
Or using using very modern words like Gender for the social sex in a American Civil War era Novel or earlier.
They didn't use that word in that sense even in 1926 and now you expect us to believe that a Character in the 1860's talked like that?
I've seen that a few times and it just destroy's immersion.
Read it out loud but try not to do it while marching up a hill with your dog with a woman in earshot while you are talking about how your prosthetic arm has a gun in it.
Now that I think about it, most of the books I've read have a lot more narration, description and monologue than dialogue.
you know what phrase I am always bothered by?: "Fateful day". Just no. NO.
Almost as bad as "Faithful day."
What about working with fictional cultural and societal normative traits in dialog, where it is partially influenced by reality (unavoidable) but lax in terms of adhering to it?
Like for example I make a fictional representation of something akin to feudal Japan called Yipon or something, allow for some influences like say architecture, government and general popular trends from Japan to signify that but at the same token allow for phrases like "cat's outta the bag" to be said as a typical phrase. Would that be acceptable or would it be too jarring to the audience?
That sounds gay as hell
@SMH SMH: Well my presupposition is that when creating fictional environments, customs of language would be taken as granted to the fictional universe despite very strong influences from real world establishments.
My question wasn't form a place of me thinking that sort of thing would be jarring, it was in response to David Stewart's advice on customs of a language needing to be taken into account to relate to an audience thus presenting essentially a proposition figuring out the exception to it in theme I guess...
For example I don't really mind that the culture of a fictional nation uses colloquial language associated with Texas even though the design elements are largely influenced by Germany or what have you.
Oh Haii David. hehehe...you are so funny David (insert weird accent)
I miss the old plain white cover of Muramasa. :-'(
I disagree with what you said about Wheel of Time personally, at least when it came to Perrin, but only because he's my favorite character, I see your point otherwise.
David, keep your stupid comments in your pocket!
oh, hi daaaahvid.
Ahahahahaha. What a story David. Anyway, how is your sex life? In all seriousness, this was a good video. Keep up the good work man.
I have different two kinds of dialogue I've gotten to the point of recognizing enough to dislike.
Joss Whedon dialogue is witty or cynical dialogue where the characters are saying something biting and on point in any situation. It's particularly difficult to stomach when the characters are in a life or death situation and coming out with carefully formulated retorts and remarks. But what ruins this kind of story telling is all your characters end up sounding like spoilt teenage girls. I end up wanting to tell them off for being stupid.
A far more common and far more annoying kind of dialgoue is the stereotypical stilted dramatic hollywood lines. American media in general has this insanely annoying way of over-pronouncing every sentence coming out of someone's mouth (for ease of understanding perhaps), followed by a short pause, followed by a response that's about as far away from a conversation as one can get. When people are in a conversation, particularly one they're actively interested in, there isn't that sentence-pause-response structure, people tend to intersperse what they want to say or respond immediately after a sentence. Many people go so far as clipping into the presumably last word of a sentence to get their point across. English media and to a lesser extent international media more realistically remove these awkward pauses in dialogue and are more willing to talk in the varied cadence that nearly anyone that isn't a news caster talks in. Some people talk so fast that what they're saying is more implied than certain and youtube auto-generated subtitles is actually the perfect example that people rarely properly speak words, muddling R's and D's, forgetting to apply 'S' and yet we have no issue understanding them. A significant aspect of speech that goes unnoticed is people's innate ability to translate something someone said by understanding the context and direction of someone's speech (something youtube auto-translate does not do, hence being innacurate). On the other hand lots of canned media for TV and film scarily close to a robot pretending to be human. It's particularly egregious that they use this kind of careful cadence and over-pronunciation in dramatic moments, innately removing the vast majority of emotion or intent they're attempting to convey in the character.
I don't even need to list any particular examples, once pointed out, the majority of western or Hollywood content is packed full of robotic language, it seems to be trained into media personnel and actors and sounds absolutely awful. In the modern age I'd have to say it's the biggest issue I have with dialogue.
I did not hit her!
Oh hi Mark
Sad this is 101 stuff and hollywood doesnt do it.
Not dialogue per sé, but it's very annoying when everything that everyone says is emphasized as them saying it.
"I don't see anything." Says Tom.
Peter turns and says: "Look, over there, by the bushes."
"Oh thére," says Tom and walks over to the contraption.
"Careful," says Peter.
Etc etc.
I couldn't disagree more on your Episode I example. Sitting around and discussing what the Trade Federation would do and talking about the corruption of the Senate is exactly what Amidala and her ministers would and I know that because it's the exact kind of conversation that real world people have about politics and current events everyday. "X politician/party/government/company is like this, so they're going to do y in response to this event" is something just about everyone who's ever talked politics has said and heard from someone else whether everybody in the conversation knew what the subject is like already or not.
do you think i can use "yo mama" in a medieval setting? XD
Capitan Spoiler thou mother is very portly that she carries the carriage instead of the carriage carrying her.
*the other guy draws a sword and comments back starting a thou mother fight*
that was priceless XD
there is this one shakespearian mother joke
"villain, thy hast undone our mother"
"villain, i have done thy mother"
it goes something like that
So calling someone racist is calling someone a thought criminal--but aren't you calling us thought criminals for calling people racist?
Maybe George Lucas will
Watch this...
Bro! You gotta cut your nails man! :D
He's a guitarist as well. I'm sure his nails serve him well as a musician.
David, you are either really afraid of strike on your channel do to vulgarity or you are really liked mannered. :)
DISAPPOINTED!!!
Anime breaks every one of these rules. Finally I have a good, concise video to explain why anime sucks so much. Thank you!
Japanese is not like English jackass.
Anime breaks the rules of Western Written Literature, a medium that it does not fall under, and therefore it sucks. Your logic is flawless.