Well structured, the information is spot on. I was about to add a optimizer onto every panel to try and get the most out of my system; this saved me a lot of money and reduced all my weak spots.
Great video. I am about to get a solar system installed on my house today with a few Tigo optimisers on one of the roof faces due to shading issues. Very reassuring hearing this information. Thanks mate!
Well done, as an engineer, I get a bit pissed off with salesmen trying to push rubbish at me. Yes I like to know the ins and outs of spending money and I like to get good value for money. Mark you said volumes, I cut down the trees shading where my panels were going, and moved my solar pool heating to accommodate the panels. The only thing they didn't like was me asking about tilting the panels to 32 degrees to the north, and putting the panels on the second story. Seems some people don't like to do stuff properly. I will add the northern side of the house was out of sight from the street. and the second story had no shade at all. I wont be putting an optimizer on my one panel, just trying to get the installer back under warranty to slide the panels along 400 mm on one string on the rails ................close to the winter solstice!!!!
Great explanation of Tigo and how to check the Fronius portal to see if they're failing. I have Tigos (1 tigo per 2 panels) on my roof because of a neighbours tree. It's hard to know in winter if the system is at maximum production because it's oversized (6kw panels on a 5kw inverter). Now I know what to look for on the MPPT voltage and I can periodically spot check the Tigos to ensure they're working. (Also, that background music is annoying 😂 )
I have 37v panels with 11-14 panels per string, a Tigo on every panel, and the AFR on Tigo is around 3-4%. I don't know the exact number since we did not keep records on all replacements, but I can estimate based on the serial numbers. The average summer temp is 95F at 90% humidity and winter is 20F with a lot of freeze/thaw cycles. Maybe in dry climates with mild winters they do much better.
Good informative video - Thx. You said the Sunpower panels output about 50V, & this is likely what caused the set of Tigo TS4-A optimiser failures in the systems you deployed. Got me thinking... So I checked & TIGO TS4-A-F is rated 16V-90V, TS4-A-O is rated 16V-80V. So the mass failure of Tigo optimisers is due to 1 of 3 possibilities: a) the Tigo Optimisers are somehow underperforming below their specified rated input voltages, or b) the Sunpower panels are spiking voltages higher than 80V or 90V, or c) both a) & b) has occurred. Any thots on this - as I do like the system design benefits of Tigo Optimisers?
Good video except it is my understanding that Tigo optpmizers have now been upgraded to handle the higher voltage. I'm not sure if older version are still being sold but I'm in the process of getting a solar system installed here in Utah, US and I purchased the newer versions to go with my 50 volt Qcell panels. I wish I had known that the optomizers were only necessary on a few panels and not all panels, so the video was very instructive. I hope you will do an update to the video. I would be worth knowing if Tigo is going to stand behind all those failed units. Dan Smalling O3/30/23
Great video Mark. Very helpful. When getting quotes, I had some companies try to sell me Sunpower Maxeon 3's with Tigo optimisers for my new home that will have shading issues during late-autumn to winter months up here in Brisbane. Was your blog that ended up stopping me from going down that path and am looking forward to the enphase based system going up in the near future.
Great info... after I watched it twice. All I heard the first time was "ding dong ding dong ding dong. Ding don ding dong ding dong. If possible, rather scrap the background music for us ADHD types. Thanks.
Sorry Mark - you're not entirely correct with only putting Tigo on a couple of panels. This only works in limited circumstances with a single string on an MPPT.
Hi, in the UK we get a lot of cloud cover. Would it be worth installing these on every panel given the amount of cloud cover we get or just on panels that get shaded by things like chimneys?
do Tigo optimizer Reduce the Open Circuit Voltage Allowing you to put more panels in series from your experience?? as with the newer panels today its very hard to keep that string voltage below 600VDC in a domestic application.
Could tigos be used on a string of panels to have say 6 facing NNE With 6 at 90 degrees to that so more to the West? What sort of out come would that get?
Hi Mark, liked this video on the Tigo optimizers. 1. Was this ever resolved? 2. Do you have rapid shutdown code requirements there like we do in the United States? 3. What is the solution for rapid shutdown when required by code when using a string inverter if you do not put modules on the roof? Thanks.
Hey flip. 1)Tigo have denied the issue. But they know it’s an issue, I proved it several times with them on the phone. 2. No we don’t thank goodness. It’s a dumb idea because the technology is crap. I believe you owe thanks to tigo, enphase and Solaredge lobbying. 3. Something like Tigo. However I don’t think it will come here.
This is very informative video on TIGO! I live in Sydney and have a 8KW Solar system installed 2 years ago. The panels is by QCells - G4.1 and the inverter by Fronious Symo 8.2 (3Phase). All panels have TIGO Optimiser and over two years, the system produced 19MWh of energy and reclaimed 2MWh. There are 26 panels on the roof and in 2 x strings. One string have 12 panels (facing N-E) and other string have 14 panels (facing N-W). I checked the voltage back 2 years ago and the voltage are not equal between the two strings. One is close to 400v and the other around 210v. Is that normal?
Great video Mark. I'm currently getting quotes from solar companies for panel installations and one has suggested to have 6 power optimizers (Tigo brand) installed to 4 panels of the 12 panels in the west direction as they will not be working from 11.30am - 2.30pm due to shading issues on the roof of my townhouse. The tree is part of strata and whether it can be removed is another issue so not sure how to go about moving forward whether is this my only solution?
I enjoy your videos Mark, My Tigo/Frouious Symo10 3ph/Sunpower P19-315 panels run at 32 volts. No problems for 2 years now. I was wondering what voltage the other brands run at? Matt
I’m about to purchase a 20kw system and have slight shading from powerlines and a small pipe stack in the same area so about 6 panels effected. Sunpower performance series panels are the ones being installed. Is there another option for me instead of tigo optimisers for the panels affected by shade in my situation? Fronius is the inverter I’m using.
Tigo is the only option with a Fronius inverter. I just wouldn't install optimisers in this situation. I doubt it would help, it might hinder. See my latest Enphase v Fronius "is there a new winning shade solution" video. The same theory applies.
Hi Stran. Unfortunately Tigo are lying to you. We have updated multiple sites (with the help of Tigo) with cloud connect and they have worked.Fronius data proves that production curves significantly improved. I have shown Tigo how multiple new batches do not work. They totally understand the issue. They ignore and deny all evidence.
Thanks for the great video and other blog resources. Do you have any guidelines for what constitutes heavy shade (-> Enphase) vs moderate shade (-> Tigo/Huawei) vs light shade (no optimisers)? Also, is the introduction of "half cell" panels moving the transition points?
Hi Stuart. Half cells panels help a little bit - but wouldn't change the threshold for optimisers or micro inverters. The threshold is really case by case. You have to consider the mppt in the inverter. If you have a string of 12 panels and 6 were shaded between 10 and 2pm, you could get away with 6 optimisers if price was the problem. If you had a string of 6 and 3 were shaded, I'd go micro-inverters for sure. If i had to guess at a rule of thumb, i'd suggest if over 1/3 of all your panels are in the shade sometime between 10am and 2pm, then consider Enphase.
Dear Mark Thanks for doing this great little series. I have just read your blog on the Tigo optimisers and was wondering if any solution had been found to this firm ware problem?
Hi Liam, we use a digital tool called a SunEye on site. Put it on any spot on the roof and it will tell you when it will be shaded, at what times of the year, and the percentage of production loss. But, read my latest Tigo blog. I'd steer clear of Tigo! www.mcelectrical.com.au/tigo-optimiser-recall/
Yes, see some trouble with wifi. Looks like the Zigbee-protocoll used some common channels which lead to collisions with existing WiFi. Changing the wifi-channel or use 5GHz solved the problems.
6:58 Were the higher voltage Sunpower panels 96 cells or 128 cells? The spec sheet shows Voc of about 64 and 86 volts for these. us.sunpower.com/sites/default/files/sp-e-series-commercial-solar-panels-supplementary-technical-spec_0.pdf You mention 50 volts so maybe it is the 96cell panel at its working voltage of54 to 55?
Well structured, the information is spot on. I was about to add a optimizer onto every panel to try and get the most out of my system; this saved me a lot of money and reduced all my weak spots.
Great video. I am about to get a solar system installed on my house today with a few Tigo optimisers on one of the roof faces due to shading issues. Very reassuring hearing this information. Thanks mate!
Very reasonable and logical advice. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Very helpful and informative. In line with my experiences. One mistake: Huawei optimizers can also be used on any inverter.
@@markcavanagh They work. We use them all the time. But I don't know if mixing is a good idea.
Well done, as an engineer, I get a bit pissed off with salesmen trying to push rubbish at me. Yes I like to know the ins and outs of spending money and I like to get good value for money. Mark you said volumes, I cut down the trees shading where my panels were going, and moved my solar pool heating to accommodate the panels. The only thing they didn't like was me asking about tilting the panels to 32 degrees to the north, and putting the panels on the second story. Seems some people don't like to do stuff properly. I will add the northern side of the house was out of sight from the street. and the second story had no shade at all. I wont be putting an optimizer on my one panel, just trying to get the installer back under warranty to slide the panels along 400 mm on one string on the rails ................close to the winter solstice!!!!
Great explanation of Tigo and how to check the Fronius portal to see if they're failing.
I have Tigos (1 tigo per 2 panels) on my roof because of a neighbours tree. It's hard to know in winter if the system is at maximum production because it's oversized (6kw panels on a 5kw inverter).
Now I know what to look for on the MPPT voltage and I can periodically spot check the Tigos to ensure they're working.
(Also, that background music is annoying 😂 )
I have 37v panels with 11-14 panels per string, a Tigo on every panel, and the AFR on Tigo is around 3-4%. I don't know the exact number since we did not keep records on all replacements, but I can estimate based on the serial numbers. The average summer temp is 95F at 90% humidity and winter is 20F with a lot of freeze/thaw cycles. Maybe in dry climates with mild winters they do much better.
Good informative video - Thx.
You said the Sunpower panels output about 50V, & this is likely what caused the set of Tigo TS4-A optimiser failures in the systems you deployed.
Got me thinking... So I checked & TIGO TS4-A-F is rated 16V-90V, TS4-A-O is rated 16V-80V. So the mass failure of Tigo optimisers is due to 1 of 3 possibilities:
a) the Tigo Optimisers are somehow underperforming below their specified rated input voltages, or
b) the Sunpower panels are spiking voltages higher than 80V or 90V, or
c) both a) & b) has occurred.
Any thots on this - as I do like the system design benefits of Tigo Optimisers?
Immensely useful infos! Huge thank you for your work on this!!!
Good video except it is my understanding that Tigo optpmizers have now been upgraded to handle the higher voltage. I'm not sure if older version are still being sold but I'm in the process of getting a solar system installed here in Utah, US and I purchased the newer versions to go with my 50 volt Qcell panels. I wish I had known that the optomizers were only necessary on a few panels and not all panels, so the video was very instructive. I hope you will do an update to the video. I would be worth knowing if Tigo is going to stand behind all those failed units.
Dan Smalling
O3/30/23
Yeh I do need to update the video. I wouldn’t go Tigo, they are ignoring a major issue about faults. I really need to push the issue harder.
Great video Mark. Very helpful. When getting quotes, I had some companies try to sell me Sunpower Maxeon 3's with Tigo optimisers for my new home that will have shading issues during late-autumn to winter months up here in Brisbane. Was your blog that ended up stopping me from going down that path and am looking forward to the enphase based system going up in the near future.
Great info... after I watched it twice. All I heard the first time was "ding dong ding dong ding dong. Ding don ding dong ding dong.
If possible, rather scrap the background music for us ADHD types. Thanks.
Sorry Mark - you're not entirely correct with only putting Tigo on a couple of panels. This only works in limited circumstances with a single string on an MPPT.
Is there a uppdate on reability now in 2022 ??
Update is that the product should potentially be recalled in my opinion! www.mcelectrical.com.au/tigo-optimiser-recall/
Hi, in the UK we get a lot of cloud cover. Would it be worth installing these on every panel given the amount of cloud cover we get or just on panels that get shaded by things like chimneys?
do Tigo optimizer Reduce the Open Circuit Voltage Allowing you to put more panels in series from your experience?? as with the newer panels today its very hard to keep that string voltage below 600VDC in a domestic application.
Could tigos be used on a string of panels to have say 6 facing NNE With 6 at 90 degrees to that so more to the West? What sort of out come would that get?
Hi Mark, liked this video on the Tigo optimizers. 1. Was this ever resolved? 2. Do you have rapid shutdown code requirements there like we do in the United States? 3. What is the solution for rapid shutdown when required by code when using a string inverter if you do not put modules on the roof? Thanks.
Hey flip. 1)Tigo have denied the issue. But they know it’s an issue, I proved it several times with them on the phone. 2. No we don’t thank goodness. It’s a dumb idea because the technology is crap. I believe you owe thanks to tigo, enphase and Solaredge lobbying. 3. Something like Tigo. However I don’t think it will come here.
This is very informative video on TIGO! I live in Sydney and have a 8KW Solar system installed 2 years ago. The panels is by QCells - G4.1 and the inverter by Fronious Symo 8.2 (3Phase). All panels have TIGO Optimiser and over two years, the system produced 19MWh of energy and reclaimed 2MWh. There are 26 panels on the roof and in 2 x strings. One string have 12 panels (facing N-E) and other string have 14 panels (facing N-W). I checked the voltage back 2 years ago and the voltage are not equal between the two strings. One is close to 400v and the other around 210v. Is that normal?
7+7panel layout,
14panels in one string is illegal for domestic job
Only19MW? That's pretty bad for that size system in 2 years
Great video Mark. I'm currently getting quotes from solar companies for panel installations and one has suggested to have 6 power optimizers (Tigo brand) installed to 4 panels of the 12 panels in the west direction as they will not be working from 11.30am - 2.30pm due to shading issues on the roof of my townhouse. The tree is part of strata and whether it can be removed is another issue so not sure how to go about moving forward whether is this my only solution?
I enjoy your videos Mark,
My Tigo/Frouious Symo10 3ph/Sunpower P19-315 panels run at 32 volts.
No problems for 2 years now.
I was wondering what voltage the other brands run at?
Matt
I’m about to purchase a 20kw system and have slight shading from powerlines and a small pipe stack in the same area so about 6 panels effected. Sunpower performance series panels are the ones being installed. Is there another option for me instead of tigo optimisers for the panels affected by shade in my situation?
Fronius is the inverter I’m using.
Tigo is the only option with a Fronius inverter. I just wouldn't install optimisers in this situation. I doubt it would help, it might hinder. See my latest Enphase v Fronius "is there a new winning shade solution" video. The same theory applies.
Mark, Tigo say you havent provided Tigo with sites to look into. It could be an installation fault.
Hi Stran. Unfortunately Tigo are lying to you. We have updated multiple sites (with the help of Tigo) with cloud connect and they have worked.Fronius data proves that production curves significantly improved. I have shown Tigo how multiple new batches do not work. They totally understand the issue. They ignore and deny all evidence.
Will you please turn that annoying background music off!
Thanks for the great video and other blog resources.
Do you have any guidelines for what constitutes heavy shade (-> Enphase) vs moderate shade (-> Tigo/Huawei) vs light shade (no optimisers)? Also, is the introduction of "half cell" panels moving the transition points?
Hi Stuart. Half cells panels help a little bit - but wouldn't change the threshold for optimisers or micro inverters. The threshold is really case by case. You have to consider the mppt in the inverter. If you have a string of 12 panels and 6 were shaded between 10 and 2pm, you could get away with 6 optimisers if price was the problem. If you had a string of 6 and 3 were shaded, I'd go micro-inverters for sure. If i had to guess at a rule of thumb, i'd suggest if over 1/3 of all your panels are in the shade sometime between 10am and 2pm, then consider Enphase.
Dear Mark Thanks for doing this great little series. I have just read your blog on the Tigo optimisers and was wondering if any solution had been found to this firm ware problem?
I don't know what is happening with new Tigo products - the issue may be resolved. But I won't be using a company who ignores clear warranty problems.
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pls check tigo datasheet
maximum 75V,450watt.
no warranty over that for
claim
how do you know what panel you are getting shade on ?
Hi Liam, we use a digital tool called a SunEye on site. Put it on any spot on the roof and it will tell you when it will be shaded, at what times of the year, and the percentage of production loss. But, read my latest Tigo blog. I'd steer clear of Tigo! www.mcelectrical.com.au/tigo-optimiser-recall/
Tigo ottimizatori tigo ts4 smart funzionano anche senza la centralina cioè collegato direttamente al . inverter grazie
Yeh, I just heard tigo only warrant them for 5 years now if you don’t connect it to monitoring!
Will these work on solar edge 7600 HD inverter
No, that would be a match made in hell !
Ditch the background twinkle noises.
Shouldn’t have taken 25 system failures to realise what the problem was when TIGO’s were connected to Sunpower panels.
Has anyone else experienced wifi problems after installing Tigo Optimizers? Only on the 2.4 GHz range.
Yes, see some trouble with wifi. Looks like the Zigbee-protocoll used some common channels which lead to collisions with existing WiFi.
Changing the wifi-channel or use 5GHz solved the problems.
I guess the SolarEdge video didn’t get past the Lawyers?
Cheap chinese rubbish :O) I just get 10x 410 W Astronergy HC perc Tier 1 panels, only 99 euros / each now. Tigos installed to those too.
6:58 Were the higher voltage Sunpower panels 96 cells or 128 cells? The spec sheet shows Voc of about 64 and 86 volts for these.
us.sunpower.com/sites/default/files/sp-e-series-commercial-solar-panels-supplementary-technical-spec_0.pdf
You mention 50 volts so maybe it is the 96cell panel at its working voltage of54 to 55?