Great video. How much cheaper is an equivalent next generation micro-inverter system (IQ8?) going to be? The two main factors being 1. Smaller, less components in the new model will reduce material and manufacturing costs. 2. Having ability to have micro-inverters integrated with panels would reduce installation costs.
Not sure what system you have but I have an Enphase IQ Combiner 3 with 24 micro inverters. I can log in thru my local wireless via web browser and see instantaneously (updated once a minute) status of each micro inverter and total production. My system warranty is 25 years. I'm in the south east USA and was directly hit by Hurricane Ida and saw wind speeds near 100MPH. No damage to my system, not even the panels, although the power grid was down for 10 days so the system wasn't generating for those down days.
I love my M250 Enphase. I live where we get snow. In the beginning of 2015 Envoy used to be almost realtime. They changed the data updating from 5 minute intervals to 15 minute which suxs.
Just for the record I have had 3 Enphase microinverters go bad on my 24 panel solar system which was installed in 2012. Enphase did provide replacement units at no cost but installation was up to me because the company that installed my system does not warranty installation of replacement parts.
This is completely wrong, because a battery is charged with direct current (DC). With micro inverter you must first convert from AC to DC to charge the battery, which costs at minimum 15% of power. With a string inverter and the battery on the DC side, the string inverter can then provide the energy from the battery for the house in AC, the overall efficiency is about 20% better then AC storage.
@@falkreichbott5675 Technically maybe so. However, when the grid goes down and sun is shining the system is smart enough to not even use your battery but power the house from the panels. And overflow the extra to charge the battery. That’s not something the other batteries can do including Tesla Powerwall.
Do micro inverters start producing power as soon as there is some sunshine, whereas string inverters have a threshold? Also do string inverters have clipping? Are these things significant or just theoretical?
An Enphase system will turn on at 1 Watt - (not that that gains you a a lot) I have heard that string inverter can go that low. I have a 44 panel mirco design (6 arrays in 4 compass bearings NE, NW, Se and SW - on a really cloud day t might only be producing 220 - 440W - so 5 - 10 W per panel at midday - can a string inverter do that?
I started with Enphase in later 2013, and have no desire to change. The quality is superior even with my old M-215 inverters. If you want to cut the cost a bit, then ya, chose Solar Edge, it will perform close to the same, but you still have that one wall inverter point of failure. That I don't like. My neighbor was talked into Solar Edge a few years ago, and has gone through two Solar Edge wall inverters in the first two years. The last one had smoke coming from it before it tripped the AC breaker. Yes, both were replaced under the installers warranty, but one took a month to get it changed, and the second one took almost two months. The 3rd one is a different design, so maybe he'll have better luck with that one.
if there is so much downsides to enphase why not use solar optimizers like solaredge ? what is the actual benefits in terms of shading by using microinverters vs optimizers? and why AC through home is safer than DC ? ( assuming same wattage in power. safety is the same concern for both)
Did you ever get the issue with 50ish voltage panels with Tigo Optimizers ever resolved? I'm putting up a 9.5kw system w/ optimizers and was intending on using SunPower panels but now I'm reconsidering after watching your really informative videos. Thanks!
In US they use 2 phases and combine them for 240v. Meanwhile many appliances use only half - 120v - either L1 to neutral or L2 to neutral. I only saw 2 wires and 240v output. How power is separated so we can still have 2 time 120v going to the panel?
The two wires from the inverter connect to L1 and L2, and supply power at 240 volts. L1 and L2 then connect to opposite ends of the low voltage winding of the transformer on the telephone pole. The transformer can absorb the power and step it up to high voltage (thousands of volts) for transmission through the grid. There's no need to connect a neutral to the inverter. If by chance you've got lots of 120V things running on L1 and none on L2, that's no problem, the transformer will take care of the imbalance.
Great video series, thank you! Any idea when you'll be able to make the SolarEdge video? Guessing the SolarEdge lawyers have something to say about it lol
No. A long story around that - Basically I got threats and i was reported to the electrical safety office on a witch hunt. I ended up getting the BS rulings from the ESO overturned - i should probably do an article about the unethical and aggressive tactics used to dissuade anyone from speaking out some day.
I'm looking for a solution for dual phase solar setup at around 8-10 kw total. We have 2 50 amp phases coming into our switboard from the street. What would you recommend? We live in Jamieson Victoria 3723. Thanks Mike
Hi Mike, I reccomend you call my friends at RACV! Enphase works really well with 2 phase regulations in QLD, but the lads at RACV will point you in the right direction.
@@mcelectrical Thanks - will be looking forward to it although I think my interest is in the Tigo optimiser (and maybe the Huawei optimiser if it is able to be used for a couple of shaded panels in a paralleled string). Cheers
I think your math is off. A rate of 50 per million per year is 1 per 20,000 per year. A 10% chance of 1 failure out of 20 panels after 10 years is 0.1 per 200, or 1 per 2000 per year, not 20,000, But I have 17 enphase inverters and had no failures for 6 years but then 2 failures in year 7 and 2 more in year 8, so yes, they do seem to be "dropping like flies" after a certain period. My failure rate is 3%, or 1 per 34 per year, so 600 times the rate claimed by Enphase. I've heard many other similar stories. They failed one-by-one and some of them gradually over several days, so not due to some surge in the line. However Enphase did their testing, it is not predictive of real-world performance. I suspect part of the reason is the constantly damp humid weather we have here in Southern US. Moisture is much more damaging to electronics than heat, and it eventually gets in. Moreover, here we have about 50% cloudy days so no professionally installed system "pays for itself" in 10 years, it's more like 17 years and that's under ideal no-shade conditions.
I'll check my maths, but that is concerning how your's are failing. Hopefully the more recent Enphase micros are more reliable. Did you see my videos about Enphase v Fronius? After I did this video I found more reasons not to go Enphase. ua-cam.com/video/TqOw43-hbjc/v-deo.html
Lads, request a new interesting test for you to complete. Those who have panel level monotoring can you complete a test and review with a RAIN X type nanoparticle products ? Please see Nano4Life (not affiliated) on the tubes for solar panel. Would be very interesting to see the data. Please.
Never have I heard a credible source say you will get more than 1-3% additional performance in unshaded system, secondly your second point is incorrect - if I want I can see per panel performance temperature, voltages, power amps etc at the minute or system performance on a second by second output in local envoy mode (installer mode), thirdly a platinum installer gives you a 15 year warranty. I have a 6 years old (three times expanded system) that 1 micro reported issues - installer replaced and upgraded 12 micros for me - zero cost - took about 3 weeks from first query to all installed! The other two advantages you missed are if you want over time to expand your system - with no regret spend - then with Enphase this is simplicity itself Finally if say several PV cells die or are damaged by hail at the 5 - 10 year mark - well with a string solution - can you still find those exact same panels to buy and replace - whereas with Enphase its a non issue, buy whatever you want and fit it back into the array within the micros rated power + 33% or just install a bigger micro with a 400 - 500W panel. Lets say you had a roof with 2000W panels and 8 of 24 panels were damaged in a string solution - how would you hope to repair that unless you were lucky with second hand parts that pretty much matched the ratings of your old PV panels. You are right its a more costly solution!
ENPHASE 25 YEAR ON ON ROOF TOP UNITS During the Warranty Period, if Enphase establishes, through inspection, the existence of a defect that is covered by the Limited Warranty, Enphase will at its option, either (1) repair or replace the Defective Product free of charge, or (2) provide a credit or refund to the owner of the system at the originallyinstalled end user location in an amount not to exceed the then-current price of a “like kind” microinverter(s) that is available for purchase by the system owner at the time of the Limited Warranty claim, or (b) the original cost of the Enphase Microinverter that is subject to a Limited Warranty claim.
You've only installed 3,000 Enphase Microinverters in five years? That's nothing. We install three times that many each year. No wonder you know so little about Enphase Microinverters. BTW, The Enphase IQ8 inverter has been used in the Enphase battery since 2020, and will be available for solar panels later in 2021. The IQ8 microinverter inverter is a game changer...
Great video. How much cheaper is an equivalent next generation micro-inverter system (IQ8?) going to be? The two main factors being 1. Smaller, less components in the new model will reduce material and manufacturing costs. 2. Having ability to have micro-inverters integrated with panels would reduce installation costs.
Not sure what system you have but I have an Enphase IQ Combiner 3 with 24 micro inverters. I can log in thru my local wireless via web browser and see instantaneously (updated once a minute) status of each micro inverter and total production. My system warranty is 25 years. I'm in the south east USA and was directly hit by Hurricane Ida and saw wind speeds near 100MPH. No damage to my system, not even the panels, although the power grid was down for 10 days so the system wasn't generating for those down days.
I love my M250 Enphase. I live where we get snow. In the beginning of 2015 Envoy used to be almost realtime. They changed the data updating from 5 minute intervals to 15 minute which suxs.
Great two up presentation... good information, contrasting opinions, great sound and video... well done again Mark!
Just for the record I have had 3 Enphase microinverters go bad on my 24 panel solar system which was installed in 2012. Enphase did provide replacement units at no cost but installation was up to me because the company that installed my system does not warranty installation of replacement parts.
But the question no one seems to have an answer...what’s the hold up with the IQ8?
Great video that realistically explains why Enphase should be used in certain situations.
Thanks Brandon, that's a great summary.
When you start talking about storage I think Enphase becomes an even a stronger proposition.
This is completely wrong, because a battery is charged with direct current (DC). With micro inverter you must first convert from AC to DC to charge the battery, which costs at minimum 15% of power. With a string inverter and the battery on the DC side, the string inverter can then provide the energy from the battery for the house in AC, the overall efficiency is about 20% better then AC storage.
@@falkreichbott5675 Technically maybe so. However, when the grid goes down and sun is shining the system is smart enough to not even use your battery but power the house from the panels. And overflow the extra to charge the battery. That’s not something the other batteries can do including Tesla Powerwall.
What about clipping losses,and needing to have more panels when using an enphase system due to these clipping losses?.
Do micro inverters start producing power as soon as there is some sunshine, whereas string inverters have a threshold? Also do string inverters have clipping? Are these things significant or just theoretical?
An Enphase system will turn on at 1 Watt - (not that that gains you a a lot) I have heard that string inverter can go that low. I have a 44 panel mirco design (6 arrays in 4 compass bearings NE, NW, Se and SW - on a really cloud day t might only be producing 220 - 440W - so 5 - 10 W per panel at midday - can a string inverter do that?
You gentleman for got one key point enphase solar system is much easier to expand
I started with Enphase in later 2013, and have no desire to change. The quality is superior even with my old M-215 inverters. If you want to cut the cost a bit, then ya, chose Solar Edge, it will perform close to the same, but you still have that one wall inverter point of failure. That I don't like. My neighbor was talked into Solar Edge a few years ago, and has gone through two Solar Edge wall inverters in the first two years. The last one had smoke coming from it before it tripped the AC breaker. Yes, both were replaced under the installers warranty, but one took a month to get it changed, and the second one took almost two months. The 3rd one is a different design, so maybe he'll have better luck with that one.
if there is so much downsides to enphase why not use solar optimizers like solaredge ? what is the actual benefits in terms of shading by using microinverters vs optimizers?
and why AC through home is safer than DC ? ( assuming same wattage in power. safety is the same concern for both)
What are your thoughts on optimizers for an RV roof array? Say, 12-200W panels in varying orientations.
Well done guys. Very fair and balanced review. Should help many people researching this.
Did you ever get the issue with 50ish voltage panels with Tigo Optimizers ever resolved? I'm putting up a 9.5kw system w/ optimizers and was intending on using SunPower panels but now I'm reconsidering after watching your really informative videos. Thanks!
Did part 4 with solaredge ever come out? I can't seem to find it?
In US they use 2 phases and combine them for 240v. Meanwhile many appliances use only half - 120v - either L1 to neutral or L2 to neutral. I only saw 2 wires and 240v output. How power is separated so we can still have 2 time 120v going to the panel?
The two wires from the inverter connect to L1 and L2, and supply power at 240 volts. L1 and L2 then connect to opposite ends of the low voltage winding of the transformer on the telephone pole. The transformer can absorb the power and step it up to high voltage (thousands of volts) for transmission through the grid. There's no need to connect a neutral to the inverter. If by chance you've got lots of 120V things running on L1 and none on L2, that's no problem, the transformer will take care of the imbalance.
Great video series, thank you! Any idea when you'll be able to make the SolarEdge video? Guessing the SolarEdge lawyers have something to say about it lol
Did you ever do part 4 SolarEdge
No. A long story around that - Basically I got threats and i was reported to the electrical safety office on a witch hunt. I ended up getting the BS rulings from the ESO overturned - i should probably do an article about the unethical and aggressive tactics used to dissuade anyone from speaking out some day.
I'm looking for a solution for dual phase solar setup at around 8-10 kw total. We have 2 50 amp phases coming into our switboard from the street. What would you recommend? We live in Jamieson Victoria 3723.
Thanks
Mike
Hi Mike, I reccomend you call my friends at RACV! Enphase works really well with 2 phase regulations in QLD, but the lads at RACV will point you in the right direction.
My Envoy has nothing to do with rapid shutdown. In fact the envoy is not required for an Enphase system to make power.
That was very interesting especially the optimiser vs enphase discussion and the tipping point aspect. You had Huawei in the title though?
Hey justcruisin. Yeh bit of a Typo there. Thanks. I shot the SolarEdge video today. It should be out this week.
@@mcelectrical Thanks - will be looking forward to it although I think my interest is in the Tigo optimiser (and maybe the Huawei optimiser if it is able to be used for a couple of shaded panels in a paralleled string). Cheers
Explained perfectly! Thanks for sharing this presentation.
I think your math is off. A rate of 50 per million per year is 1 per 20,000 per year. A 10% chance of 1 failure out of 20 panels after 10 years is 0.1 per 200, or 1 per 2000 per year, not 20,000, But I have 17 enphase inverters and had no failures for 6 years but then 2 failures in year 7 and 2 more in year 8, so yes, they do seem to be "dropping like flies" after a certain period. My failure rate is 3%, or 1 per 34 per year, so 600 times the rate claimed by Enphase. I've heard many other similar stories. They failed one-by-one and some of them gradually over several days, so not due to some surge in the line. However Enphase did their testing, it is not predictive of real-world performance. I suspect part of the reason is the constantly damp humid weather we have here in Southern US. Moisture is much more damaging to electronics than heat, and it eventually gets in. Moreover, here we have about 50% cloudy days so no professionally installed system "pays for itself" in 10 years, it's more like 17 years and that's under ideal no-shade conditions.
I'll check my maths, but that is concerning how your's are failing. Hopefully the more recent Enphase micros are more reliable. Did you see my videos about Enphase v Fronius? After I did this video I found more reasons not to go Enphase. ua-cam.com/video/TqOw43-hbjc/v-deo.html
The Title is wrong, it states "Solar Optimisers & Micro Inverters Mini Series | Huawei" instead of Enphase.
Thanks. Fixed :)
Thanks, "the old copy and paste" trick :)
Lads, request a new interesting test for you to complete. Those who have panel level monotoring can you complete a test and review with a RAIN X type nanoparticle products ? Please see Nano4Life (not affiliated) on the tubes for solar panel. Would be very interesting to see the data. Please.
Thanks i go for a Fronius
Enphase Microinverter warranty is 25 years. You guys should know this...
Never have I heard a credible source say you will get more than 1-3% additional performance in unshaded system, secondly your second point is incorrect - if I want I can see per panel performance temperature, voltages, power amps etc at the minute or system performance on a second by second output in local envoy mode (installer mode), thirdly a platinum installer gives you a 15 year warranty. I have a 6 years old (three times expanded system) that 1 micro reported issues - installer replaced and upgraded 12 micros for me - zero cost - took about 3 weeks from first query to all installed! The other two advantages you missed are if you want over time to expand your system - with no regret spend - then with Enphase this is simplicity itself Finally if say several PV cells die or are damaged by hail at the 5 - 10 year mark - well with a string solution - can you still find those exact same panels to buy and replace - whereas with Enphase its a non issue, buy whatever you want and fit it back into the array within the micros rated power + 33% or just install a bigger micro with a 400 - 500W panel. Lets say you had a roof with 2000W panels and 8 of 24 panels were damaged in a string solution - how would you hope to repair that unless you were lucky with second hand parts that pretty much matched the ratings of your old PV panels. You are right its a more costly solution!
ENPHASE 25 YEAR ON ON ROOF TOP UNITS During the Warranty Period, if Enphase establishes, through inspection, the existence of a defect that is
covered by the Limited Warranty, Enphase will at its option, either (1) repair or replace the Defective
Product free of charge, or (2) provide a credit or refund to the owner of the system at the originallyinstalled end user location in an amount not to exceed the then-current price of a “like kind”
microinverter(s) that is available for purchase by the system owner at the time of the Limited Warranty
claim, or (b) the original cost of the Enphase Microinverter that is subject to a Limited Warranty claim.
You've only installed 3,000 Enphase Microinverters in five years? That's nothing. We install three times that many each year. No wonder you know so little about Enphase Microinverters.
BTW, The Enphase IQ8 inverter has been used in the Enphase battery since 2020, and will be available for solar panels later in 2021. The IQ8 microinverter inverter is a game changer...
so, could you help explain, is there any more advantage of enphase systems?
IQ 7X units suck
Ha. please elaborate!