As someone who is actually chronically ill, let me tell you, it is not romantic or beautiful. It involves bodily functions, fluids, scars, stretch marks, weight gain and loss, bruises, and many other features that have been considered "gross" by society. It kinda rubs me the wrong way, for people to turn it into an aesthetic. I do like the idea of romanticizing my own illness, in order to live with it easier, and to cope better, but to pretend to be ill in order to be attractive?? That grosses me out. It maddens me, because these people aren't actually suffering. It's borderline ableist in my opinion, to turn genuine suffering into a costume you can put on and off, when in reality the people actually ill aren't able to take off the costume. It is a life long curse to some. And I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Also note how people think sickness equals thinness, when in reality, often being unable to exercise or eat properly as well as taking medications can cause weight gain, and many people who are sick gain weight. It's such a narrow view of illness that Mina is describing, when in reality illness is uglier than pink noses and thinness.
@@chamomilde3140 you said exactly what i was thinking !! i really think its like extremely ableist. also funny because there's a lot of people who are ableist in a lot of ways (as you probably know) but now its aesthetic and a trend ..??
As a chronically ill gal, I couldn't agree more. I would literally do anything to be back in my healthy body. I have CFS/M.E so I don't always "look" sick but I feel it every single day. Sending love to you fellow spoonie 💖
THIS. Also, the cold reality of being chronically ill is that, in contrast to all of this social clout for faux-illness online, a lot of IRL relationships deteriorate because people just can't deal with watching someone else be sick up close. People get mad when you don't "get better" even after you explain to them this isn't how that works, you're disabled indefinitely. You have to choose your friends and romantic partners carefully.
I had a red velvet couch from the same era, but was more curved and oval than beveled/sectioned than Mina’s. I loved that couch even if my now spouse and my sister didn’t and I’ll always wish that I kept it til the day I die!! 😭😡
Junji Ito wrote a short-story about that fits quite well. In the story teens try to catch a disease that makes you more beautiful every day. Even when it's discovered that the disease is deadly, people still try to get it intentionally.
Junji Ito is a rare gem. He writes incredibly gross body horror manga but it is never exploitative when it comes to women. Tomie and Hellstar Remina actually put a very modern twist on female roles in horror and the only time he drew sexual violence was for someone else's story in No Longer Human. We stan.
One of the causes of my eating disorder was a desire to look sick. Not necessarily because I thought it was attractive but I had low self-esteem and thought that the only way someone could ever truly care about me was if I looked like I could die any minute. I also wanted to look how I felt on the inside as a way to communicate to my family and friends of how horrible my mental wellbeing was. I think that's something worth considering when someone makes efforts to look sick or says they want to look sick.
i heavily relate to that part abt wanting to look how i felt as a way to communicate to family/friends. that was me a few years ago. it would seem ironic to call myself an attention seeker as a very reserved introvert but those times made me feel like that. i blamed myself a lot for doing that to myself instead of realising i honestly had no other choice. it feels as if nobody will understand and you dont wanna risk opening up. even if you wanna muster up the courage to do so. if you are not fully healed now then i hope you recover very soon and treat yourself like the lovely person you always have been. its not easy and thats okay. take your time ^^
as a disabled person, I’ve found that reactions to “looking sick” are so fickle. obviously sick, you’re not trying hard enough. non-obviously sick, you must not need any help. poor thing, you must hate your life. you’re fine, look at all the miserable people in my waiting room. eye bags are cool, but only if they’re enhanced by makeup. you’re wearing makeup? you can’t possibly be doing that badly then. it’s dizzying 🤷🏻♀️
Living with an invisible illness is exhausting. This comment reminds me of last summer when I parked with my disabled parking pass in a disabled parking spot (in the USA) and had a random lady tell me “you can’t park there. It is so offensive that you think it’s okay to use someone else’s placard just for your convenience. You know, some people ACTUALLY need them. People your age are so fucking disrespectful.” Like…. Ma’am… i didn’t even know how to respond. I just stared blankly at her for a few seconds until she scoffed and walked away, but my friend told me I should’ve said, “wow, people like ME are so lucky that people like you exist to make sure these spots are available for US” really sarcastically. If you look sick, you are pathetic, pitiful, infantile, and ugly. If you are sick but it’s (not always) visible, you’re faking it, manipulative, lazy, and selfish. Society in general is so ableist
You're not wearing makeup? You obviously aren't putting in any effort. Don't you know this is an important appointment? If you were actually sick you'd be taking it seriously and want to look your best.
@@johanabi it really is exhausting. I I don’t even want to ride our subway system because it’s hard to ask for a disabled seat when I look young -ish and we’ll enough . I need to get the seat in a 20 second window before the train starts moving and it just gives me so much anxiety. I’ve had strangers just assume I’m not disabled and yell at me about it
I was just thinking about this yesterday, about how tuberculosis was portrayed in media. Meanwhile, I was stuck in bed because my IBS was acting up. Where are my romantic stories about being bloated and gassy?
Is it just me or is this reminding y'all about Billie Elish? Her rise in popularity steamed from her album "when we fall a sleep were do we do?" she has mastered the aesthetic of a hopeless romantic/sick young pale innocent girl that's suffering from mental illness.. Don't get me wrong, I do like some of her music. There isn't any hate towards her. It's just interesting that that's what made her popular in the first place.
I feel like commenting on the fact that “anti-sickness” is a huge beauty standard in the black community. That’s really interesting, especially because I remember many African family members taking pride in our cultural food (rice, pasta, bread, etc) and any sort of weight loss when you were already fairly small was seen as unhealthy and “too skinny.” I had cousins with fast metabolisms constantly picked in by their parents for their weight, whereas I was a bit objectified for having curves and developing early around age 12. Curves and an ample amount of body fat are seen as feminine and healthy, hence why that could be a factor in the trend in black people having higher prevalences of bulimia (such as laxatives) whereas white people tend to have higher prevalences of anorexia. I think also, African Americans specifically (the ones who are dealing with a cultural clash between health and wellness in strict African households vs. a defiance of and control of one’s own body in the form of rapid weight loss) assimilate into western culture through controlling our weight and dietary habits, which alienates us from the cultural attitudes about food we were raised in. A possible reason black people with EDs are told we are “trying to be white.”
Probably you are american or european, because as South African I can tell you this is not our reality and I believe your thinking is attached to 20 years ago behavior! As crazy as it seems we follow the worlds trends over here and I can tell you this not our pattern right now! People are crazy about getting that sick skinny addict body and other materials stuffs we can never ''afford''!
Thank you so much for sharing. As a white afab person who studied psychology for quite a time, the utter lack of comprehensive mental healthcare and education for/about EDs, (even more than other mental health issues), has always disturbed me. And that lack of available resources and mental health professionals for those with EDs, and the majority of what research there is being focused on white, middle class, cis women/girls- means that our psych education on how minority groups are affected by certain mental health issues, EDs in particular, was noticeably lacking. What I’m saying is, accounts like yours (while not the same as peer reviewed research studies, to be sure, but still very valuable) help fill in bits and pieces of the massive gaps in my education, and while it might not have been your intention, I thank you for helping educate me a bit. I hope that makes any sort of sense ^_^;
Thank you for sharing. I’m latina and I was also expected as soon as I hit puberty to be curvy just like the rest of my family members. They were curvy albeit morbidly obese at times and I was constantly teased for being too skinny and having “no ass.” I thought binge eating would help me gain some weight and get the curves I was told I was supposed to have. It didn’t work, my body was still developing and I’m just not built like that…which I embraced later on and shed off the extra pounds I made myself gain accidentally when my wisdom teeth were removed. I, like you, also struggle with western wellness culture ( which is touted as eating like a “gringo”) and my Caribbean cuisine, but I have learned to ignore it and incorporate both into my diet in moderation.
Hi, I'm a musicologist who has done a lot of work on the 19th century and also opera in general. I think it's important to note that TB is a rather "handy" disease for storytelling, because A. it can go dormant sometimes (so the character can be vibrant again, temporarily), and B. it's relatively...not gross. Eventually, you get to the coughing up blood stage, but before that, the victim can be depicted mostly as just weak and becoming thinner and more fragile-very feminine. There's also the aspect of it being a handy way to get rid of a problematic female character, but that's another discussion. Contrast this with something like cholera, which killed tons and tons of people, but is completely disgusting. Cholera could easily turn a romance into a horror show.
Hi amateur historian here, and I agree. There were other forms of TB that were especially present in children that you got from unpasteurized milk. That one ate giant holes in your spine, along with other things, so not pretty.
I'm a little older than you and have always had very pointy cheekbones. I'm okay with them, but it feels like a really "severe" look that I need to balance with something soft (curly hair, soft makeup, etc.). I really don't understand why people would WANT them. Completely seems like trading one problem for another.
im much younger, but have always had a soft round face and I would NEVER trade it. I have never wanted to and never will. My mom (who is 40+) is the same way haha
My friend's very Italian mom used to say hello by pinching my cheeks and saying, "Ah, so fat!" It was clearly a compliment indicating youth and vibrant health. Italians suffered a lot of deprivation and malnutrition in WWII and afterwards. They remember.
And this buffalo fat removal I do think it looks ugly on some people but I naturally have these hollow cheeks.so sorry I look 5000 years old everyone !
This reminds me of the time I went to the ER to get a lump in my breast assessed (in my 20s) .The ER doctor told me I was too young to have cancer and laughed ...she couldn't take me seriously . Went to another doctor and got diagnosed with stage 2A invasive breast cancer. Leads me to wonder if a lot of doctors assume we are just hypochondriac due to the social media "chronically I'll aesthetic" as a cancer patient I find it fascinating people are faking an illness that's trying to kill me . I would never wish that on my worst enemy .
When I was in grad school, I did observation in an ER that had instituted a policy for this. If patients reported symptoms indicative of a given illness, the clinicians were required to run the appropriate tests. They were not allowed to second guess a patient without evidence. Time and time again, I saw women initially diagnosed as "FOS" (not to their faces, of course) before the test results came back proving they actually had a serious illness. It's alarming to think how many would have gone without care if those protocols weren't in place.
You can never be too young for anything. I was born blind in my left eye and my baby cousin was born needing a heart surgery so that’s just dumb of that doctor!! I’m sorry for your experience.
Medical professionals that way “you’re too young to be sick” are FRUSTRATING AS HECK. Anyone can be sick. Any age. How do so many of them not know this?
... Same bs with endometriosis... "now that's an older women disease, no need to look in a young person...... Yeah it's an older women disease cause you do not care to look till its to late
As someone who deals with chronic illness, I often pretend I'm a sickly Victorian woman, going mad as I look at my yellow wallpaper. It beats being a modern sickly woman just trying to keep up with the world around me
It’s funny not because it’s funny…but because this is exactly me! I love learning about the Victorian era and just pretend to be a Victorian women taking care of her home in her sickly days. Grew up physically Ill and always looked skinny and sick and tired …it’s always been part of me….I have mental illnesses as well but it’s like no matter how much you try to get better I cannot because it’s like a identity crisis because all I know is…I am sick skinny and I’ll looking…without that what am I?
Maybe this is a weird thing to mix in, but I have thyroidproblems and I also have mental issues. (Trauma, but also autism and adhd, plus the near-anemia and exhaustion.) Sometimes that means my head is a dark place (and then it is nót fun) but sometimes it is simply a weird place. Like when I am overwhelmed and it is constantly giving me "pop-ups" with video's or pictures, like a really weird LSD-trip. As long as it doesn't go towards the dark side, those LSD-trips (without LSD) turn out to be very useful. If I have them now, I simply announce to anyone demanding my efforts that I am tripping on tiredness, I describe what I see (that freaks them out enough to leave me alone) and then I lay in bed and close my eyes and record my speech, while telling myself what I see. Or I'll draw, if I am "hallucinating" them with eyes open. Ever since I started doing this, I keep the sketches in my inspirationbook and I have a heckload of really cool ideas that I want to paint or create. One of those is a painting I'm working on with flying fish and flowers with bubbles. Or a fly that is also an eye. Endless inspiration. Usually the trips are réálly fast bytheway, like 20 ideas in a minute, so I can't write everything down.
Mina this was such a cool video. If I could pick on one thing, it’s this: there may be a Western tendency to think of tuberculosis as something of the past. I live in sub-Saharan Africa and TB is a real concern here. It goes hand in hand with HIV/AIDS and is a killer. It’s heartbreaking because while treatments exist, you generally have to take the medicine for 6 months and it has brutal side effects and many give up, especially when they don’t have family support or have other issues like food scarcity. My mother contracted TB while working in a hospital and it was awful, nothing to be glamourised at all.
medical workers in the west still have to get the TB vaccine (I had to get one when I got a job working in the ER doing patient registration) so it's not a totally forgotten thing, but unless you're in the medical field a western person probably isnt going to think about it.
It is shameful in this day when TB is treatable that people suffer and die from it. The rates were so low we stopped giving the vaccine as part of a normal schedule in the USA around 2005. I am sorry that is your reality.
One of the charities I donate to is HeroRATS - they work in areas where TB is still endemic, and the rats sniff samples and can detect latent TB early on when it's easier to treat, before it becomes symptomatic. They have labs in Tanzania, Mozambique, and Ethiopia right now. Even in the US, though, TB is still an active disease. We do not routinely get vaccines against it, nor do we routinely test for it. The only way anyone gets a test is if they work in a high risk area, or have a known exposure. So there may be many thousands of cases of latent TBI out there that we just don't know about.
i think one point that could've been mentioned is that this trends make girls more vulnerable, especially the one romanticizing mental illnesses such as anorexia, especially in relationships. Because people can prey on these girls specifically because they are more vulnerable ; and to romanticise that may put those girls at risk. Making sickness "pretty" and desirable is dangerous (there is a huge trend of people wanting a "depressed girlfriend" and this is just terrifying imo Anyway : amazing video as usual thank you Mina ! (And your decor is terrific i want the same)
That's a trend? Wtf? As someone who's dated a few people suffering from depression (not intentionally, just by coincidence) it's horrible. Watching the person you love suffer, and in most cases not being able to really help at all, is just painful and sad. Why would anyone ever want that?
I actually struggle with depression and I’ve had men actually come onto me while I was sad because it made me more attractive to them. I’m in my mid-30’s so I just clock this preference as being predatory at this point.
There is just so much wrong with that concept, from being disrespectful towords suffering, to idealising a partner that is even more depended them women where at that tìme to begin with it is deeply disgusting and I do not get it
I had a role as Lucy in a stage adaption. At first, I thought she was a powerful almost feminist icon but I learned that she was only used to show societal standards put upon women in the 19th century. Very saddening but I loved her :)
Take a shot every time undead lucy (or any of the undead women in the novel if memory serves) is described as voluptuous. You'll die of alcohol poisoning by the end of the novel
I lost 20% of my body weight in a short period without trying around the same time that Kim K got really skinny, and people started to discuss the whole resurgence of the Heroin Chic thing. Everyone I know has commented on how “great” I look and quite a few people have expressed outright jealousy that I was able to lose weight so quickly, even though I’ve explained I suffer from an autoimmune disease that can cause fluctuations in my weight and attack my organs. Some people are jealous of how fragile I look right now, even though behind the scenes my doctor’s are seriously concerned about my health and are sending me to all kinds of specialists to rule out potentially deadly diseases. It just blows my mind that people would *choose* to look sickly and delicate when the people who actually are sickly/delicate are suffering due to health issues. I wonder if they knew about all of ugly things that come with unexplained weight loss, such as hair loss, bruising easily, and a weakened immune system if they would feel the same.
I lost a lot of weight for me due to an autoimmune flare up during Covid. No one made mention of my weight loss, even my doctors. My boyfriend would praise how delicate I looked and when I realized how thin I’d gotten (all my clothes were baggy, and they were 00) I was brushed off. I wasnt allowed to see my dad during that time and eventually I recovered. But when I showed him some photos later on, he was the horrified and very mad that no one tried to help me. I see a dietician now and she was mad when I told her how no dr said anything
yup. had inexplicable (at the time) weight loss in ‘18 that rapidly progressed until my weight in lbs was in the double digits. cousins and aunts told me i looked great and asked me what i was doing to lose weight. “idk, i’m really tired all the time tho. i think i’m sick.” tried to put on weight - muscle, fat, anything - and it wouldn’t stick. i was exhausted, depressed, and had mild cognitive issues. this January, after lots of bloodwork, doctors finally diagnosed me with adult-onset autoimmune diabetes. i had literally been slowly starving for almost four years. but yeah, i looked “great”.
Not quite the same, but I had a similar thing happen. A few years ago, I stopped eating almost entirely due to a lack of appetite, barely able to stomach a few bites a day. I of course lost weight, and was given compliments about how good I looked (despite the fact I was average before, and became underweight). I even passed out due to my blood sugar dropping, but everyone was focused on the fact I was skinnier. My partner had anorexia/bulimia a few years ago, and even though xyr mom knew what was causing it, she told xem how good xe looked due to being skinnier
yo this happened to me too! cause of flare up in my lupus triggered by a really bad flu ive lots like 25 pounds since december, but no one assumes its cause im legit sick, they assume its intentional weight loss to fit the beauty standard. theres lots of ugly that comes with it ur right.
Oh hey I got that too, I have a thyroidproblem and I lost 10 kilos (I was 65 before) and I was told that I finally looked mature and should keep it this way.
Maybe I should just pretend I’m wasting away beautifully as I lose my brain from it eating itself (PPMS), my loose skin should be considered beautiful right cuz I lost 70kg from it 😅 when will we see TikTok’s with fake loose skin as beautiful?!
I was a sick kid during the heroin chic 2000s, literally almost starving to death bc of my illness and my childhood was filled with grown women telling me how jealous they were of my body and it haunts me to this day
OMG thank you for saying this. Survived Cancer as teen and I don't even contour bc it makes my face look like it did when I was 90lbs and near death on Chemo. That's what I see when I see buccal fat removal girlies, they remind me of how my face looked when I was * DYING * It does not make ANY SENSE TO ME that people think Looking like your on the edge of death is beautiful. It's frankly insulting to disabled and sick people everywhere.
Im just finishing my course and the idea that anyone would want to base their aesthetic on the look that makes my infusion nurse order an extra bag of fluids is WILD
@@Marina-zg9vpand I'm sure you and your cheekbones are beautiful! That was literally never discussed lol? I have "prominent cheekbones naturally" too chemo or not, but having prominent cheekbones ≠ the same thing as having less than 10% body fat left in your body and as a result face and ≠ cosplaying as someone who is seriously ill . This video, and my comment, are ALL in reference to people specifically cosplaying as seriously Ill, and seeking cosmetic enhancements to look like they have such a little body fat percentage it can't be achieved naturally in a safe way. No one was saying anything bad about prominent cheekbones and sorry if you felt attacked but there's no attack here. We're just two gals who delt with/are dealing with cancer and chatting about our harrowing experiences, we never meant to insult your cheekbones whatsoever...
In my previous university course, Youth culture in schools and society, we read a chapter about this topic. In Sweden in the late 19th century. the ideal girl was skinny, sick and weak. Girls learned that women were weaker than the strong men, so it is natural for the girls to internalize that message in order to appeal to society norms. There was a value in being ill. After World War 1 the ideal shifted to a healthy and atheltic ideal. Reference: Larsson, A-K. (2003). Från korsett till kost. I: Meurling, B. (red). Varför flickor?: ideal, självbilder och ätstörningar. Lund: Studentlitteratur, s.41-65. [Larsson, A-K. (2003). From corset to diet. In: Meurling, B. (Ed). Why girls? : ideal, self images and eating disorders. Lund: Studentlitteratur, p.41-65.]
This is so fascinating. So why did it change then? Like was it the World Wars that encouraged people to be more productive in a sense? And therefore encouraging health in citizens? I think it's interesting what larger societal factors could've been at play on what the ideal woman, and the ideal man was at the time.
In Bulgaria we still have this “trend” going around in which when someone had a cough the doctor sends them to the mountains for fresh air and steam spa treatments.
I've had severe eczema my entire life. The fact that puffy red skin is now a trend is shocking to me. These people have the privillege of cherry-picking aspects of a disability without living with the parts that destroy your sense of self.
I just wanted to add - the amount of people “faking” disability to get SSDI is incredibly incredibly minuscule, as it horribly difficult for disabled folks to get SSDI (it often takes 6 months to 2 years if you can even get it). The way SSDI is set up is to essentially make sure people can’t get it unfortunately Thank you so much for talking about this though, especially with the disability context! I actually made a video a few weeks on insta and TT talking about “let’s cosplay illness” aesthetic has contributed to people not seeing us disabled folks as human beings, so it’s so great to see larger creators talking about this too!!!
I'm currently trying to get a disability allowance right now (it's called PIP here in the UK) for my chronic illness. I haven't been able to work for two years 😭 It's super super hard to get but I'll keep trying!! Sending love to you ❤️ I see you!!
@@floatwiththesticks I’m so so sorry it’s taken so long! That’s so incredibly frustrating, like you deserve support and shouldn’t have to work so hard for it. Sending so much love to you too! 💗💗💗
my anemic ass watching this in bed as I'm recovering from a lung surgery 👁👄👁 but seriously, everyone takes their good health for granted until it's gone. as much as i try to make myself feel (mentally) better about my own pain, there is nothing beautiful about illness.
I've had to take care of my sick grandparents for years and before they got sick I was into the tumblr heroin chic look, now I just think k it's the complete opposite of glamorous. Watching someone waste away is one of the worst things to see it's sad.
Couldnt agree more! If it means anything, a few years ago I was the sickest I've ever been - I'm immuncompromised and was living in mould, I had repeated pneumonia infections, viruses every few weeks, had to get a bronchoscopy done and spent months on steroids. I couldn't even walk up the street without losing my breath. However, last night, I managed to run 1.7km! I know how difficult it is dealing with lung problems and not having any hope it would ever get better. Focus on your healing for as long as your body tells you, eventually you will find your feet and hopefully return to full health! Sending you love xo
@@rachael5807 aw I'm so happy to hear you got better, that's an amazing accomplishment! I had a VATS surgery + pleurectomy a few weeks ago after my lung collapsed for the second time. 😭 Your words definitely helped, thank you 💕
@@pebbie oh wow that sounds full on, you're a warrior! Once you get back to a stable baseline you'll have so much willpower and strength that healthy people just don't develop. You've got this !! 💛
many ED-ed people i know got their disorder because they wanted to look as sick as they felt on the inside. they wanted to look as sick physically as they were mentally. this fascination with wanting to look sick or even be sick is something i've attributed to wanting to be taken care of and looked after, and i think it's so interesting to think about
I have a thyroidproblem and I want to look sick if I feel sick, because I know that if I look healthy, people will demand things from me and manipulate me into doing them. Such as schlepping around items when I am too tired, getting out of bed when I am genúienly unable too and will "fall through my legs' or join a group and eat in public when I am overwhelmed and on the verge of tears. I feel like people constantly need to be reminded of me being unhealthy, so they leave me alone and they listen to me. I also need to learn how to detect when I am overwhelmed and not just join everyone in peerpressure, when they cannot see how sick I am.
It's funny to hear about the "spa retreat" spaces being talked about like a relic of the old times when here in Poland it's still very much a thing. They are called a "sanatorium" or "uzdrowisko" here. Although some look closer to actual hospitals and others more like hotels, a lot of them were established exactly in the 19th century. They are either at the seaside or in the mountains. Depending what health issue you have, the doctor might "prescribe" you a visit to a sanatorium for a month or longer. You will have a lot of different treatments like massages, mineral water baths, special mud compress, inhalations etc. Some places are made specifficaly for kids (there are school classes included) and others for adults. Interestingly I wouldn't say they are associated with higher classes but just regular folks since it's state sponsored usually. Although there is this stereotype about "regulars" of those places which often are lonely retired people or someone unable to work because of health issues who treat trips there as some kind of socialising paties or even to hook up with someone lol. I myself had a visit to such an establishment as a child and tbh it definitely didn't feel to me like a spa trip, more like a torture XD. But those treatments did somewhat help me.
how was it like torture? until i got to the last sentence, my thoughts were "omg sounds fun!" lol. also, is it just prescribed to people w/ physical illnesses or are they for mental ones as well (like depression for example)? this is v interesting to me (& others who come from areas w/o this system) & it's great that it's state sponsored :)
@@shaina8947 I was quite young, almost 7. It was 20 years ago and let's say the conditions at the place I was staying with my mum (kids younger than 7 needed parental supervision and I was there with a 4 yo brother too) were VERY post-communist like. It wasn't luxurious or anything. In retrospective, the treatments weren't bad. But I had to take the inhalations, which basically meant sitting still with a mask on my face connected by a tube to a machine and inhaling some kind of funky smelling cloudy air for 30 minutes everyday. For a small kid it was a bit traumatising. Also they would fill up a big bathtub with the warm water which to me at that time felt like I was drowning cause they told me to fully submerge and I didn't know how to swim yet. At least at one point one of the nurses realised I was scared and my brother too so they put less water in and gave us toys to play with. If someone told me NOW to spend an hour in a bath I would love it lol. Nowadays those places look a lot better but it also depends to which kind you go. My mum had a chance to stay at basically a hotel meanwhile my grandpa ended up at one looking like a borderline hospital. And you cannot really choose with whom you will be in a room. It's all random (male and female separated). If you apply early enough you could get a room by yourself if you are lucky. If not, you could potentially have a room with or next to someone who carries out whole-night long parties so no sleep for you🙃. As far as I know, sanatorium is only for physical issues not mental ones. But tbh it could have changed, I just don't know. Maybe there are some specialised in mental health.
As a girl with gastroparesis who did get sickly thin from vomiting nonstop everyday for 6 months, THANK YOU for this. I will be sick forever but i have found treatment and happiness and i am more beautiful than ever at a healthy weight.
i literally fainted out of nowhere yesterday and found out i am severely anemic - which explains the running out of breaths and the blacking outs and the tiredness and the lack of periods and many other things - so perfect timing as always mina
@@yunglynda1326 yes thank you lmao it was kinda funny to find out, because i literally have horrible dietary habits for years and now they've come to bite me in the ass...
Please take care of yourself if you can! I unknowingly had severe anemia and increasingly was getting sicker and sicker. After a while I was having heart and breathing issues. Severe anxiety, it was difficult to function. Emotional meltdowns almost every day. Intense unwavering exhaustion. Thankfully I realized (through a blood test, which ironically no doctor suggested until I went to France) that the iron I was taking at the time wasn’t enough - I needed 3 x more of it each day. I love Hemaplex (an iron available in the states) and Tardyferon in Europe. These have changed my LIFE. My symptoms are gone, I can breathe - AND, my anxiety is gone. I am a new person. I hope the same can happen for you. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I think one of the most intriguing things my womens social history prof ever said was that she suspected at least some chronically ill middle class women were faking or at least making it out to be worse because it removed them from the strict, suffocating expectations placed on them as wives, social entertainers, etc
This is a topic I find fascinating, as a both disabled and chronically ill person. However, we need to be really careful when assuming we know what a “truly” sick person looks like. Invisible illnesses are real and valid too. I really hazard against calling people out who you think might be faking their illnesses and/or disabilities. Many of us may occasionally pass as able bodied and struggle to have our conditions believed, taken seriously, treated, and diagnosed. Many of us have had to endure being accused of faking our suffering for attention, which often has lead to familial, social, and medical neglect. While those making the accusation of faking might have thought they were doing so in solidarity with the sick and disabled, what they were really doing was contributing to the suffering of that same population.
Saying that 'people' 'fake disabilities' can also lead to people, especially with low self esteem, struggling to accept their invisible disabilities. The amount of time I was convinced that i just 'was not trying hard enough', because I couldn't have ADHD, because today 'everybody has it' and I didn't want to be a faker, is mind boggling.
Totally! But I think the discussion is more on the "convenient" inconsistencies that happen a lot with illnesses/disabilities on the internet. Like the Tiktoker who claimed to have Tourettes, but only had the most overt/dangerous episodes, while simultaneously and conveniently not hurting themselves (i.e. the time they were cooking on a hot stove with violent hand/arm spasms, but conveniently didn't burn themselves on camera). For the most part, so long as the person isn't trying to excuse themselves from a horrendous crime using illness/disability as a shield from facing consequences, I doubt there's any reason to "call out" people on whether they're faking or not. I'd stick to calling out perpetrators/criminals conveniently conjuring up their illnesses to avoid prison.
@@janefins261 all I’m saying is that there are likely far more invisibly ill people who are accused of being fakers than there are fakers and we need to be careful. I’m not into gatekeeping these identities, especially as the lines between well and unwell, sick and healthy, are much blurrier than is popularly understood.
This isn't pertaining to sickness per se, but this topic reminds me of the poisoning deaths in Chinese palace dramas. Amidst ornate silks and twinkling hair ornaments, a beautiful consort will drink poisoned tea, and begin to ✨prettily✨ cough up blood, while her eyes go glassy with tears and she proceeds to faint ✨daintily✨ lol
Yes, in movies, they 'princess-faint' or get a 'princess-epileptic-attack' and in real life, an actual victim is nót pretty during an epileptic attack. I heard people fantasizing about wanting to be an epileptic, because in their mind, you prettily faint, everyone cares for you, you wake up with people petting your hair and you get to go home to rest. In reality, you likely wake up in trousers covered in urine, having bitten your tongue, some nasty teenage boys mocking you in the near distance and some annoying teacher asking you wáy too loud if you are *OKAY?!*
I wonder if the whole vampire chic thing stems from this as well. Think pale skin, red lips blood trickling from the mouth. And you could also look at Snow White as potentially being a folk tale about beautiful illness as well. Also love the new background ❤
Mina, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts + well-researched information on this topic and calling out some of the impacts it had / has on society. As a woman living with multiple chronic health conditions (one major chronic disorder that is the cause of several severe symptoms, each of which are their own chronic health diagnoses), I can attest that this issue greatly affects the way doctors regard their patients, for I spent over 15 years of my life suffering debilitating symptoms that were either untreated or mismanaged because I was repeatedly misdiagnosed or dismissed by numerous doctors throughout that time. I believe the issues you’ve addressed continue to tarnish doctors’ ability to take their patients seriously and have an unbiased full-picture view of their patient’s symptoms. Like many chronic health conditions, mine are mostly invisible (especially to anyone who doesn’t know me well), which makes it inherently hard to “prove” your symptoms, but it’s *especially* hard in a world where people are out there faking symptoms/illness. And while I now have a correct medical diagnosis (and medical tests to document its existence) and proper medical treatment, people often do not realize that I *still* deal with all of my symptoms (!!)….in varying degrees, the symptoms’ severity and/or frequency is lessened by the prescriptions I take, but they are not cured. Also, a delayed diagnosis can often have long-term implications, because many chronic health conditions drastically *worsen* overtime when they aren’t properly managed…this is the case for me, and this lessened quality of life has a definite ripple effect. For instance, it took me a long time to finish college…and after graduating last year as an adult student, I still haven’t been hired because I lack experience (was unable to juggle an internship + the pandemic of course limited any available options) and because my symptoms are so bad that I need to either work full-time from home or have a part-time position that’s very close to home since I cannot drive very far. Anyways, sorry this was so long. Just wanted to share this with you in case you would like to create a part-two video that delves deeper into the topic of this video. Thanks so much for all of the interesting information/knowledge you share. ❤️ P.S. I truly love your setup! 😍 It echos your uniquely fabulous personal style, and I imagine the rest of your home is just as amazing! Your mom really pulled through with those amazing pieces! Seems like she must really understand you, and that’s a really awesome thing if so!
The buccal fat thing is honestly funny to me because real ones have been clocking bella hadid for it for yearssss and everyone gave that “puberty and dieting” bullshit, but now those same people are up in arms when the surgery has become obvious and more accessible 😂 Like are we mad or arent we?!
This makes it really hard for those of us with debilitating diseases to actually get treatment. I feel like I have to carry all of my images and test results with me to every appointment for the express purpose of not being told it's all in my head. It hurts my heart and I hope this trend goes away soon.
same! glad you said that. so mentaly unhealthy that we need to convinse every new doctor of our factual lillnes. as a kid I never thought of it, my mom was doing the job. but transition into solo meetings with doctors was rough
I agree but I don’t think it’s this trend’s fault, doctors just don’t believe patients because of inherent societal ableism, the trends are a symptom of this, not a cause
It can take awhile to find a doctor to believe us and take us seriously. Who WANTS to go to a doctor? I can think of a thousand things I’d rather do. One doctor actually told me I had “PBS” poor baby syndrome! Wtf jerk!! 😡😡 ahole - I found another doctor who listened kindly.
I’ll be honest with you - people were misbelieved before tiktok too. Sometimes even more. It’s not people who are faking it but people who accuse of it that are the cause for this issue. It was before social media and stems from misogyny and calling people hysteric too.
It is annoying when I am hurting with my chronic illness in the hospital and I'm told I'm too pretty to be sick or how young I look or even with the weight gain/loss that your face is still beautiful because this leads to under and maltreatment which is compounded by my race and sex because I don't look sick to medical staff. I also dress up to make myself feel better so I'm judged by that as well. There's nothing cute about having a genetic disease, frequent treatments, hospitalizations, etc. It's a difficult life, especially as a single mom and a grad/post grad pursuant. The fact that I cannot talk about this often because many think I'm saying this for vanity but I go by what others say and how I'm constantly maltreated due to it. It's not beautiful to put on this aesthetics because if you become ill/disabled you will not find it nor yourself beautiful. I long for my healthier days.
Fabric is a great alternative to wallpaper! If you mix cornstarch and water you can attach it to the wall very easily! It holds up very well and is extremely easy to peel off when you are ready to take it down. And the cornstarch washes off with just a little warm water. I redid the walls of my rental in this way
I also feel like as a disabled person who has an invisible condition related to pain as well as chronic illnesses like migraines if you don't look "sick enough" people get upset with you. Like people have come up to me and told me I dont look disabled and I have had doctors at my pain clinic tell me I am too young to be there. Because obviously illnesses and disability only happen to the elderly. I almost feel glad that I am in my 30s now because people wont question me talking about my body being in pain as much as they did in my 20s because I felt like I was always questioning if they were right and maybe I wasn't as bad as I thought I was.
I think people who want attention and pity should learn that it's okay to ask for company if you're lonely or to ask your loved ones for snuggles. You don't have to go to extremes to be taken care of.
THANK YOU!!!! After years suffering from a multitude of undiagnosed illnesses I finally got diagnosed which led me to finally get medication. Although I do feel better the meds made me go from “over weight and bed ridden” to “in pain but able to move and much MUCH smaller”. Despite the weight loss being unhealthy for me, to the point where my doctor has made me go to a nutritionist to lessen/slow down the speed at which I’ve been getting smaller, I am constantly getting compliments because I’m smaller now. They don’t care that the medication has made other symptoms appear. “It’s good you have so many food restrictions, because you’re losing weight.” (I can’t go to restaurants anymore, and have cried in public bathrooms because my grandmother bought something when I said I couldn’t eat it then she yelled at me for not eating it) “Sure you’re weaker, but you used to be so bulky so it’s good that you’ve lost muscle.” (Not even joking) “I wish I was so sick I had to take meds that made me disgusted by food.” (I had emergencies called for me three time last year, the level of embarrassment of being wheeled into a back room at a fucking hardware store and so out of it I remember a total of 10min of the hour and a bit I was there IS NOT CUTE) These have ALL been said to me and more. Honestly the worst part is I used to be confident, but every “compliment” (read: pointing out I’m sick and weak and unable to fucking do anything for myself without it being a whole event) comes with mentioning something they disliked about the body I used to have. That body could walk down stairs. That body could cook. THAT body is still how I see myself, who I really am. Who I was. Who everyone judged and lied to my face about. That body loved me, this one I don’t even recognize.
You mentioned the 2010 trend in Japan, but now Yami Kawaii (Sick Cute) and Menhera (mental health-er) are still hanging onto popularity. My students just did a presentation (in English) on makeup trends here in Japan, and they highlighted these.
someting that i think also relates to this topic is the german poetry of "Expressionismus". It developed during and after WW1 and contains topics like "die Ästhetik des Hässlichen" (the aesthetic of the ugly). it showcases an intense interest in death and disease and sometimes romanticises it as well. An example would be "Ophelia" by Georg Heym. I think it is a very disturbing but also interesting topic and you might enjoy researching it.
I was JUST talking about the Smallpox and TB thing with a friend! I remember having a project in HS about Lord Byron and coming across the line “How pale I look! - I should like, I think, to die of consumption … because then the women would all say, ‘see that poor Byron - how interesting he looks in dying!’” this topic is incredibly fascinating and it's so interesting how it carried on to current times.
Haha wow, I have cystic fibrosis and before my lung transplant I was giving "tuberculosis chic" - severely underweight, sheet white, dark undereye circles, sunken cheeks, etc. And I was dying y'all! It's pretty gross people want to look like that on purpose or adopt the aesthetic of illness without experiencing its true horrors.
thank you for this!! i’m in recovery for eds and bdd, as well as having chronic illnesses and disabilities, both physical and mental. (though they are all “invisible illnesses”) i appreciate you not overlooking the ableist rhetoric and ideals that drive beauty trends like these. especially with what that means currently for the disabled community. i would have loved to have heard a bit more about the cultural impacts that these more current and/or resurfacing trends could have however. especially in relating to eating disorders, youth/teens coming of age at this point in the beauty ideal cycle, body modification/mutilation, how “trendy” or fake illnesses further drive ableism and stigma, (leaving those of us who are disabled to have an even greater disadvantage.) disabled or chronically ill people with invisible illnesses who are discriminated against or gaslit because we “don’t look sick,” people in larger bodies, brown and black bodies, not being believed to be ill because of this (no pun intended) narrow view of what illness “looks like,” and more. it’s not that your video wasn’t great bc it *was.* i just happen to have a massive interest and personal investment in this topic and it’s possible branches! *however* i loved this video! and i fully realize you were focusing on the beauty ideal and keeping the video under 37.68 hours long. i’m just continuing the conversation that you kindly started and put so much thought and work into. this may be one of my favorites, it’s hard to tell though bc you always knock them out of the park. 🖤💫
I love these ideas, and think that it's important to talk about and discuss the many layers of ableism and how it interacts w other forms of oppression. I don't think Mina is the person to cover them though. It would be better if Mina linked to videos or articles from people in the community instead of speaking on issues and experiences she may have little knowledge on. I would love to see a crossover between Mina's content and a disability justice artist/educator for example.
As someone who is just gaining back their health after literal years of feeling less capable, weak, tired and sick, this is incredibly insulting. I'm immunocompromised and used to get chronic pneumonia, infections, muscle pains, rashes, and I spent so long on medications that made my skin dry and pale, my face bloat, and my body frail. I've worked so hard to get to a point where I'm not constantly missing out on life or activities, and as a result of getting better, the glow I have in my skin and healthy weight I'm at is something so special and sacred and amazing to me. It is frankly quite bizarre to me that anybody would trade that up in favour of looking sick for aesthetic reasons. Not to mention the years it took to be taken seriously. Same thing goes for my adhd, I got diagnosed around the same time and now content is finally being made that I can relate to, but it's hard to find through all of the people who trivialise it for views or medication.
13:00 reminded me of the one woman who had jumped off a building and landed on a car, her picture was taken and it became a huge thing because “oh she’s so beautiful even though she’s dead!!” 😒
There was a beauty trend in Japan and/or Korea where girls would draw dark undereye makeup so they had the tired cute look, and not to mention the latest cold girl look. Maybe for some reason if we look ill we look more vulerable, which tends to be a characteristic that a gentle pretty girl would have
i highly recommend you read susan sontag's "illness as a metaphor", its not about fashion (understandably) but it talks at lenght about tuberculosis and how it became sth to be desired as a mark of particularly interesting personality and an artistic inclination and there are some sections that link it to the development of beauty standards in the 20th century
its weird to me how looking sick can be seen as cute bc infantilism but simultaneously the second ur actually sick and need care these people suddenly dont want to step up, even tho their whole attraction is based on your helplessness when related to ur illness?? its very dark idk. im autoimmune, constantly sick with different things, people alwayysss tire of my helplessness. make ur minds up ppl
genuine thoughts: there’s certain people who claim to have over a hundred mental and physical illnesses, but sometimes i can’t help thinking that some of it is just them romanticizing being ill and unhealthy (for any sort of form of attention- good or bad). like i definitely do not want to discredit them, but i can’t help but notice the parallels between them and münchausen syndrome. i feel like we should instead try romanticizing doing what’s best for ourselves and be as healthy as our abilities allow us to, at our own pace.(not in a toxic way tho) but it also makes me wonder if some people romanticize illness and pain because they are comfortable in that state of being idkkk
I AM sick. Most recently: Stage 3b/Grade1 Inflammatory Breast Cancer Lupus, Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, Dysautonomia, Postural Orthostatic Tachycardic Symdrome, and Celiac Disease. That's a lot, huh. Now, most people don't believe that I have that laundry list of maladies. Cancer really bumps up the believability of my claims of illness. So does my shower chair. But, most folks think I am looking for "handouts."
sending so much love as another chronically sick person, I’m sorry you’ve experienced that from folks. It’s really frustrating to see sickness as an aesthetic when people literally won’t believe our lived experience
Sending all my love. Chronic illness here too. POTS, and others. I'm so angry others haven't taken you seriously until you suffered from something they thought was valid. Fuming for you.
Mina!! This was fascinating. I gawked when you said “tuberculosis core.” I can’t believe that’s a thing!! But as a lover of classic literature, I recognized it immediately. I was born with a congenital heart defect and have had two open heart surgeries. When I was young, I was a very skinny, pale kid and I always joked that I looked like a sad Victorian child. I love my scars and think they tell a great story but I don’t want to romanticize them or use them for pity. I am so grateful for my health and can’t help but shake my head on why anyone would even want to give the appearance of illness for aesthetics. It’s pure silliness!
So, I'm very pale and have really deep dark circles under my eyes, which is something that always bothered me to no end and which I got mocked for in school, but both things are unchangeable (I tried), since they're hereditary. But once in a while a guy who likes me will tell me the strangest things about those aspects of my appearance, like "you look a bit like your undead, yes, but in a soft, romantic sad vampire girl way" or, even weirder "I like the dark circles, they make you look like those slightly manic but brilliant, frail artist characters from anime"
TW: addiction, SH, mental illness, eating disorders! I've been talking about this with my friends a lot. I often think about the time when tumblr was a huge deal and eating disorders as well as self harm were an "aesthetic". While exposing people to the fact that mental illnesses exist is important, during this time mental disorders, scars from self harm and bruises as well as very skinny women and men were being romanticised (i am very skinny myself but these pictures suggested eating disorders and a mental illness and not a natural body type).This also applies for Lana del Rey's Music. She sings about addiction, abuse and mental illness. A lot of people loved it but never really realised that she may actually experience these issues. Now that she's doing better and has gained weight a few fans are upset. But they don't realise she is doing well now and the person she was before was sick. I hope these "trends" won't come back but they probably will :( (I hope everything is correct bcs english isn't my mother tongue)
9:42 seeing the cocaine toothache drops made me do a double take because i continuously forget that people used to take hard drugs to relieve any ailments they had in the past
Just wanted to let you know that they still do. Fentanyl and opioids are hard drugs. That is why sometimes *sometimes* _sometimes_ (SOMETIMES!) I have more empathy towards "crazy ladies" on video that are screaming about their Frappuchino being cold in Starbucks, because god knows what they are on, but since they are Americans, it must be some drugs in some cases.
A few years ago, I got sick with endocarditis and dropped 50-60 lbs within like 10 months. I have naturally chubby cheeks but my face was so sunken in and I had other physical symptoms too like my hair was falling out, rashes on my legs, but I can't tell you how many people told me how pretty I looked, while I was DYING, because I was really thin.
I remember watching my mom die young of cancer and thinking of all the movies and shows and young pretty women dying tragically, but majestically. But it wasn’t that. It was trying to navigate her sobbing and screaming because she feared dying, it was her fearing me as she lost her mind, it was fearing her outbursts, changing diapers, break downs, fighting her to let me take care of her, losing independence, and so much more. I’m not saying death should be feared, but it’s not glamorous either and no one should want that kind of end to life. I also think it’s damaging to not be more vocal and open about what dying sick actually looks like.
I like these type of videos. It really shatters that thing people keep saying about people suddenly becoming worse out of nowhere. The things they complain about have been around in some way since forever.
I'm anemic, and I just found out my iron is through the floor again after two years of relative okay. I knew I needed to go get bloodwork done when I could barely walk without having to catch my breath, and sure enough, my red blood cells are struggling with the oxygen thing. It affects my entire body, and I lose weight, and because I'm fat kid, everyone says I look great. I just want to scream "Do you see my sunken face!? That I can barely get oxygen?!" It's all sorts of toxic and bless their hearts they really don't realize how they are being. I have to remember that "society" got to them too...they aren't purposely trying to make me feel bad.
as someone who was born with heart disease my whole life i have seen it happen typically with the adult women in my life either knowingly or unknowingly, “you’re so skinny” i’m underweight and physically weak “your skin is so porcelain” i don’t have enough oxygen, there’s some sort of fascination with my appearance that comes from the older women in my life and with the men they feel as though i’m some damsel in distress & like they’re some hero if they run to my aid there’s a special place in my heart for people who treat me just the same, the people who let me ride rollercoasters without looking over their shoulders the whole time, or the men who watch me struggle to open the pickle jar before they offer help and the people that do understand it is not always a privilege to be in a body that looks like mine
I giggled at the thumbnail, cuz I’m actually currently dealing with tuberculosis 😂 And let me tell ya…it ain’t fun, I lost a bizarre amount of weight in two weeks and looked grey like a chewed up piece of gum
“A beautifully and mentally ill woman who glamorously drawns” I snorted out my coffee, even though I knew Mina was about to point out the ridiculousness of these portrayals. I guess their silliness never fails to amaze me
I keep coming back to these videos recently because I got sepsis at 19 and it changed my life really. One of the main things is from 19 to 21/22 I weighed 6st 12 to 7st 1 at 5"8. I will stress my weight loss was never intentional. The comments you got from the public were overwhelming positive. I think it was the mix of being young and so thin. I'm turning 24 and have been with my partner a year trying to gain weight (I'm now 7st7 which is still quite underweight despite eating so much) but it's insane trying to go against the trend. All I will say is being so ridiculously thin makes you so tired. Too tired to do anything productive. You will waste your life.
I've become chronically ill recently and this whole association that "illness equals being waify" makes me laugh bitterly, because in reality being chronically ill and in pain means being unable to move around much, which makes us actually gain weight. But that will never become fashionable, now won't it :D
Yupppp. Chronic illness often makes people gain weight, and it makes our experiences of ableism even worse bc of how ableism and fatphobia reinforce each other. Even more so if you're bipoc or afab
Ugh this is so real. I have UC which is famous for making people drop weight faster than the speed of goddamn light. I experience the complete opposite. Years of being on and off corticosteroids, my digestion and hunger cues getting screwed with, among other things have caused me to gain weight instead. Take a guess if this has caused any issues with doctors taking me seriously in the past 🥲
What an egocentric overgeneralisation. One chronic illness can be to another condition day is to night. Many chronic conditions actually lead to (often sudden) weight loss, such as Crohn's disease and any other diagnosis involving the gastrointestinal area. Rheumatoid flare-ups often include the absence of an appetite or nausea as well. The term "wasting sickness" coined primarily for tuberculosis (but also other conditions) wasn't chosen out of the blue, many illnesses include people's muscles (and their fat) literally wasting away, especially if the chronic illness hasn't been discovered yet. The "chronic illnesses always lead to weight gain" stereotype is annoying, wrong and hurtful towards those affected by the opposite, such as those who have to watch as their own body continues to waste away, unable to do anything while constantly being accused of having an eating disorder. Corticosteroids are one of the primary reason why many people will certain chronic illnesses will either be overweight or look "bloated", and the fact that being overweight increases one's chances of developing several chronic illnesses (and in reverse, some illnesses obviously do come with a higher risk of obesity, mostly by affecting our metabolism, endocrine system, etc) may warp one's perception as well. But being chronically ill or in chronic pain is as much associated with weight loss as it is with weight gain.
@@zkkitty2436I suggest you to read up on the various cases where chronically ill people died from their conditions as a result of their weight loss/them being unable to keep anything down not having been taken seriously. Young women and girls especially are at a higher risk of being written down as having an eating disorder and thus being viewed as a psychiatric patient, which often leads to either a late diagnosis of the actual condition (a type of cancer/sickle cell anemia, gastrointestinal disorders,...) or them dying and the cause of their symptoms only being discovered during an autopsy. To imply that non-obese and especially skinny people who are chronically ill are experiencing less ableism is absurd, egocentric and false.
Oh! This is definitely a problem. I have a serious chronic disease that unscrupulous doctors infected me with - hepatitis C. And I look good - for more than 11 years I have been on a medical diet, taking medications and trying to do everything to minimize the impact of the disease. However, even from doctors I can hear "you look good/young! You can't get sick with this!" By the way, it is precisely because I feel good and my indicators put me at the end of the queue for the delivery of medicine. I'm not sick enough to get treatment
To me being sick as a fashion statement makes a lot of sense. I feel like being sick can become trendy not only for the delicate feminine look it can give to a person as Mina mentioned, but also because sickness can be a very comforting state for a lot of people (not to confuse with people actually faking a whole disease for attention, thats on a way deeper levle). When you're sick you're being taken care of, you're expected of less, loved ones worry for your well-being and you get some rest. Is a fast pacing, achievement oriented and pressurefull world, I can see how easily sickness can be romanticized and desirable, thus becoming part of fashion.
This completely ignores the reality of being sick though. What you're saying might apply to short-term illness, but that's highly dependent on whether you have a support system to fall back on and people around to care for you. The reality is that people close to you often abandon you when you become chronically ill. Sympathy and care are often short term, after which point you are accused of not trying hard enough to survive. You're still expected to be energetic enough to do things people around you see as valuable, and showing the pain (physical or mental) that you're in makes people around you uncomfortable. You can't often engage in public life, and become isolated. In the case that you are pitied instead of accused of laziness, you still face dehumanization as people see your life as a tragedy they'd never want to live through. Ableism is constant and is enforced by everyone, regardless of whether they're medical professionals or everyday people. People who occupy other intersections of marginalization still seem comfortable in letting disabled people die. Look at the way many multiply marginalized folks and "leftists" are calling disabled people woke-scolds for asking people to continue to mask as spread of COVID has not reduced. People who see sickness as desirable harbor ableist ideas and often are removed from reality. Being sick or disabled is unbelievably difficult.
I disagree. When you're sick for a longer period of time people get tired of taking care of you, you're still expected to do more than you physically can, you feel guilty about people constantly worrying about you and a lot of diseases cause you to be more tired than usual. Being sick is only desirable until you actually are sick. No one enjoys feeling like shit all the time lol
This is NOT true, sick people are taken care of for very little time, after which we are seen as burdens, you might say this is what people IMAGINE being sick is but you cannot say it is a reality
I agree on this so much! Definitely has to do with the feeling of being taken care of. I mean there are so many fanfics of a boyfriend/girlfriend taking care of their hurt loved one (and even stories)
I have a chronic illness that caused some severe complications with my skin when I was 17. It caused scarring all over my body as well as my face. And I‘m not talking about a small scar on the cheek, but scars that have been called disfiguring by some doctors and some people have had really bad reactions when they saw it for the first time. As a 17 year old this was detrimental to my confidence. It wasn’t pretty or aesthetic, only humiliating. Luckily this was during Covid so I often was able to cover the scars with a mask and it gave me time to build my confidence. Also the scars healed so that now two years later they don’t look as bad anymore. I’m still planning to get plastic surgery to “fix” my face. Just wanted to leave this here for people to think about. Illness is only aesthetic if you still look like a runway model.
Loved this video! As a chronically ill person I think it’s also important to acknowledge that due to people faking being sick (which isn’t very common but obviously happens) and ableism in general many sick and disabled are assumed to be faking their illnesses and disabilities even by the doctors who treat us
As a Pulmonary TB survivor all I can say is that the sickness should never be glamorized. I can still remember the 6 months of struggle during my treatment, the hacking guttural cough from the inside of my lungs, the sprinkle of blood on tissues, the constant fever, it also leaves a mark on my lungs that will never go away. I still remember everyday I am lying on my bed with just one wish which is just to recover. It’s the hardest part of my life and no one deserves to feel that pain from the sickness that I felt.
Mina you are the only “Deep dive” UA-camr I love not only to listen to but actually look at you! Always looking absolutely stunning and this background is something else ❤
Hi Mina, I’ve been a fan for a long time, and always appreciate the nuanced complexity of your videos. I’m not surprised to see a lot of comments from chronically ill and disabled folks here, but as someone who is chronically and invisibly ill and disabled I have some additional thoughts. How illness and disability are treated and dealt with in contemporary culture (and the past) are incredibly complex and ableism is so pervasive that there’s a lot to touch on here. First let’s talk about the “faking” discourse. The media LOVES to highlight these stories of people faking illness for perceived benefit. As you have shown there are obviously cases where this is true, and while I appreciate your acknowledgement that many ill or disabled people are bullied and accused of faking, we need to focus more on the fact that the fakers are a fraction of a percent compared to those of us who are actually ill and just fighting for any scraps. This is partially due to the fact that people in most developed countries seem to believe there are numerous benefits awarded to disabled folks. I am most familiar with the benefits systems in the US (where I live) and the UK, but the reality is for the most part disabled folks are kept well below the poverty line and forced to stay there in order to receive crucial benefits that allow us to live our day to day lives. We are not given anything, we have to fight for EVERYTHING, and then as reflected in some comments I’ve seen here (regarding SSDI and other benefits systems) many of us still get nothing. The perceived benefit many able bodied people believe is associated with disability is itself deeply ableist, and could’t be farther from the truth. I myself am an ambulatory wheelchair user (I can walk and stand but only for very short periods so I use a wheelchair sometimes outside of the home to allow me access to more spaces and activities). There is relatively little awareness in our culture that ambulatory wheelchair users even exist. Because of the level of policing from non disabled members of the public, I carry a deep level of fear every time I leave the house that I will be yelled at by strangers just for moving my legs in my wheelchair. If you want to see more content from ill people about the impact of being accused of faking I would suggest looking at people like @disabled_eliza and @thechroniciconic on instagram. Thank you for your discussion of Ugly Laws. This is something I still see discussed very little outside the disabled community, and the legacy of Ugly Laws and forced institutionalization are very much factors in how ill and disabled people are treated today. Why should we be surprised about the lack of awareness and extent of ableism, when disabled people and other groups considered “undesirable” were literally hidden out of public view as recently as a hundred years ago. You don’t really get into this but I do think it is worth acknowledging the complexity of how medicine has changed since the tuberculosis era and how the medical model of disability very much effects how ill and disabled people are dealt with today. The advances in modern medicine are of course amazing, as can be seen by increased life expectancy and decreased infant mortality rates, etc. However the modern medical system has created a belief that bodies are problems to be fixed. This belief is held most fervently by many doctors. They want to “fix” your “broken” body and if they can’t they want nothing to do with you because acknowledging they can’t would make them a failure under this model. This is not wholly disconnected from the phenomenon of ill wealthy women being sent to the seaside but has built upon a history of female identifying people, with ambiguous, hard to treat or little understood illnesses having incredibly complex relationships with doctors and the medical community. And complex relationships with our own bodies, many of us rejecting the idea that our bodies are broken or need to be fixed, while others are desperate for a fix to debilitating symptoms, and still many of us who feel both at different times. The idea that illness is a moral failing is not limited to things like syphilis and sadly didn’t die in the 16th century. This kind of thinking is still very prevalent today. I also want to touch on the complexity of “tuberculosis-core” from the perspective of an ill person. And of course I’ve seen a lot of comments that discuss varying views on this because chronic illness and disability are not a monolith. I’m not sure if you’re aware of the instagram account @fromthefaintingcouch but it is an account that creates memes out of historical paintings primarily from the Victorian era about living with chronic illness. There are others who have taken on this approach and honestly one of my favorite chronic illness memes of all time, pictures a woman swooning on a fainting couch/chaise lounge with a man leaning over her saying “you told me you were interesting” and she replies “ i said i was ‘into resting’”. To me things in this vein feel like a reclaiming. A way of contextualizing and creating humor out of the fact that I spend the bulk of my life at home on the couch unable to do much else. But this imagery may not resonate with other ill folks and non ill people adopting this attitude could of course be seen as appropriation. I think the core point is that ill and disabled people deserve bodily autonomy just like everyone deserves bodily autonomy (this statement is also relevant to fat folks, as I find there is A LOT of overlap between ableism and fatphobia). Oh and the pretty privilege you mention also effects how members of the disabled community are treated. Invisible illness is living at the complex intersection of receiving relative privilege for not “looking disabled” while also simultaneously not having people recognize that you can physical limitations without it being visible in any way. The fact that both these things are true are of course more evidence of ableism, and how little our society understands about disability.
As someone who has Tourette’s it’s so fucking annoying bc at this point in my life my tics are kinda rare (it usually reduces or disappears in adulthood), but when I do have them people have not believed me because of shit on tiktok
i have genetic dark circles and have been insecure about them for a longe time, and when i saw that byojaku (didn't know the name before tho) style i loved it, i incorporated it into my make up bc it makes me feel cute
Hi Mia! Watching this video made me more curious about how these cultures are cyclical. As you mentioned, in the 90s there was also a glamorization of sickness and illnesses, I remembered exactly that at that time there was also a "healthy" fashion, gym and relaxation. Got me thinking - is this new trending the answer to the "Clean Girl green juice and healthy lifestyle" era, and how this affects the 'fast-trending/fashion' that now exists on social media? I remember seeing one of these videos on your channel, I would love to see an in-depth look at this cyclical era. PS.: I loved the new scenery!
I appreciate the way you approached this topic, it's something I think a lot about because I'm chronically ill and that comes with a large set of assumptions and a heavy history attached. Thank you, and I love your new furnishings!
as a chronically ill and mentally ill person, my heart hurts for all the people like me in the comments. just reading through your stories is so relatable...it's so crazy what we deal with when we have "invisible" illness. i'm afraid to even talk about it much on social media because i don't want people to think i want attention for it, or think i'm faking because i only post about the "highlight reel" of my life and me being disabled doesn't make sense to them. what an upside down world we live in
Living with endometriosis, fibromyalgia, and hyper mobile joints is just like hell. Looking in the mirror seeing my pale skin, dark under eye circles and acne is a big reminder. I still think I’m cute but I do sometimes cover it all with makeup to fake feeling normal… Finding other people do the opposite is kinda weird 😅
Just wanted to say I LOVED that you did a video on this and you did an amazing job!! I'm a person who became disabled just in the last two years as the result of an untreated case of Lyme disease which caused a ton of health problems for me, including rapid unintentional weight loss due to stomach disease and a thinner/bonier face. When I get compliments on specifically my sickness-caused appearance or see trends LIKE the bucal fat removal you talked about, or further trends in weight loss, I get so upset because it's like, people are trying to imitate something that sick people have and DON'T want. It always goes with privilege and is def also a subcategory of cultural appropriation for sure. Glad you talked about this in such a nuanced way!
Thank you so much for covering this topic, especially the modern stuff, with sensitivity and fairness. So many people don’t realize that people’s safety is affected by how you talk about this.
Not gonna lie as someone who is genuinely ill and loves historical fashion, I absolutely love being a dying Victorian boy moving to the seaside for the air (I genuinely moved to the seas in the hope to get a bit better, it worked). But when well people do this is feels really weird.
It makes me very happy that my sweetheart has been vocal and genuinely thrilled when I started getting healthier - pinker, plumper, more energetic, and happy! Chronic illness sucks!
I’ve been procrastinating watching this bc I knew how triggering it would be as someone who is chronically and now effectively terminally ill and oh boy was that a good assessment 🙃 I think the most important thing to note is rarely if ever do people who are actually sick/d-ing ever get anything other than ab-se related to their aesthetic state- let alone normalcy let alone praise. Consumptive chic is and always has been for the abled to cosplay being sick- and it’s not just aesthetic. It’s about the inspiration pcorn instant gratification of a makeup wipe at the end of the day. Literally exists to signal to oneself the societal power inherent in a perfectly functioning body/the subsequent self-obsessed class reinforcement by getting to take the costume off and assure yourself you’re “not one of them”, and it’s dangerous.
As someone who is actually chronically ill, let me tell you, it is not romantic or beautiful. It involves bodily functions, fluids, scars, stretch marks, weight gain and loss, bruises, and many other features that have been considered "gross" by society. It kinda rubs me the wrong way, for people to turn it into an aesthetic. I do like the idea of romanticizing my own illness, in order to live with it easier, and to cope better, but to pretend to be ill in order to be attractive?? That grosses me out. It maddens me, because these people aren't actually suffering. It's borderline ableist in my opinion, to turn genuine suffering into a costume you can put on and off, when in reality the people actually ill aren't able to take off the costume. It is a life long curse to some. And I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Also note how people think sickness equals thinness, when in reality, often being unable to exercise or eat properly as well as taking medications can cause weight gain, and many people who are sick gain weight. It's such a narrow view of illness that Mina is describing, when in reality illness is uglier than pink noses and thinness.
@@chamomilde3140 you said exactly what i was thinking !! i really think its like extremely ableist. also funny because there's a lot of people who are ableist in a lot of ways (as you probably know) but now its aesthetic and a trend ..??
As a chronically ill gal, I couldn't agree more. I would literally do anything to be back in my healthy body. I have CFS/M.E so I don't always "look" sick but I feel it every single day. Sending love to you fellow spoonie 💖
@@floatwiththesticks thank you so much! I’m wishing you lots of rest and low pain days!
THIS. Also, the cold reality of being chronically ill is that, in contrast to all of this social clout for faux-illness online, a lot of IRL relationships deteriorate because people just can't deal with watching someone else be sick up close. People get mad when you don't "get better" even after you explain to them this isn't how that works, you're disabled indefinitely. You have to choose your friends and romantic partners carefully.
mina the new background is as immaculate as your content
You right
This is verbally,physically and spiritually true😳
Edit: thank you for the likes!
My jaw dropped, it’s gorgeous
I had a red velvet couch from the same era, but was more curved and oval than beveled/sectioned than Mina’s. I loved that couch even if my now spouse and my sister didn’t and I’ll always wish that I kept it til the day I die!! 😭😡
The background is stunning!
Junji Ito wrote a short-story about that fits quite well. In the story teens try to catch a disease that makes you more beautiful every day. Even when it's discovered that the disease is deadly, people still try to get it intentionally.
what's the name of the short story?
@@otiliawalters8271 It's "dying young". The story was first published in 1991.
@@Avellania thanks so much
Junji Ito is a rare gem. He writes incredibly gross body horror manga but it is never exploitative when it comes to women. Tomie and Hellstar Remina actually put a very modern twist on female roles in horror and the only time he drew sexual violence was for someone else's story in No Longer Human. We stan.
junji ito supremacy
One of the causes of my eating disorder was a desire to look sick. Not necessarily because I thought it was attractive but I had low self-esteem and thought that the only way someone could ever truly care about me was if I looked like I could die any minute. I also wanted to look how I felt on the inside as a way to communicate to my family and friends of how horrible my mental wellbeing was. I think that's something worth considering when someone makes efforts to look sick or says they want to look sick.
I hope you are doing better ♥
i hope you’re doing okay~ i struggle with an eating disorder as well and think you’ve made a very good point here
i relate to this so so much. i’m sorry you know how this feels, but thank u for sharing and helping me feel less alone 🤍
i heavily relate to that part abt wanting to look how i felt as a way to communicate to family/friends. that was me a few years ago. it would seem ironic to call myself an attention seeker as a very reserved introvert but those times made me feel like that. i blamed myself a lot for doing that to myself instead of realising i honestly had no other choice. it feels as if nobody will understand and you dont wanna risk opening up. even if you wanna muster up the courage to do so.
if you are not fully healed now then i hope you recover very soon and treat yourself like the lovely person you always have been. its not easy and thats okay. take your time ^^
me too- but i also thought it would make me attractive in like a dark way
as a disabled person, I’ve found that reactions to “looking sick” are so fickle. obviously sick, you’re not trying hard enough. non-obviously sick, you must not need any help. poor thing, you must hate your life. you’re fine, look at all the miserable people in my waiting room. eye bags are cool, but only if they’re enhanced by makeup. you’re wearing makeup? you can’t possibly be doing that badly then.
it’s dizzying 🤷🏻♀️
And if you happen to just soldier through it all, you hear things like: "Wow, you're so brave, I'd just kill myself if it was me." Like...excuse me?
You literally can’t win
Living with an invisible illness is exhausting. This comment reminds me of last summer when I parked with my disabled parking pass in a disabled parking spot (in the USA) and had a random lady tell me “you can’t park there. It is so offensive that you think it’s okay to use someone else’s placard just for your convenience. You know, some people ACTUALLY need them. People your age are so fucking disrespectful.”
Like…. Ma’am… i didn’t even know how to respond. I just stared blankly at her for a few seconds until she scoffed and walked away, but my friend told me I should’ve said, “wow, people like ME are so lucky that people like you exist to make sure these spots are available for US” really sarcastically.
If you look sick, you are pathetic, pitiful, infantile, and ugly. If you are sick but it’s (not always) visible, you’re faking it, manipulative, lazy, and selfish. Society in general is so ableist
You're not wearing makeup? You obviously aren't putting in any effort. Don't you know this is an important appointment? If you were actually sick you'd be taking it seriously and want to look your best.
@@johanabi it really is exhausting. I I don’t even want to ride our subway system because it’s hard to ask for a disabled seat when I look young -ish and we’ll enough . I need to get the seat in a 20 second window before the train starts moving and it just gives me so much anxiety. I’ve had strangers just assume I’m not disabled and yell at me about it
I was just thinking about this yesterday, about how tuberculosis was portrayed in media. Meanwhile, I was stuck in bed because my IBS was acting up. Where are my romantic stories about being bloated and gassy?
I mean you could try kink fics
@@softnoobgirl73 ... Well you're not wrong, I guess
"I fell in love with the musical trumpeting of your farts."
Is it just me or is this reminding y'all about Billie Elish? Her rise in popularity steamed from her album "when we fall a sleep were do we do?" she has mastered the aesthetic of a hopeless romantic/sick young pale innocent girl that's suffering from mental illness.. Don't get me wrong, I do like some of her music. There isn't any hate towards her. It's just interesting that that's what made her popular in the first place.
the thread bruh
I feel like commenting on the fact that “anti-sickness” is a huge beauty standard in the black community. That’s really interesting, especially because I remember many African family members taking pride in our cultural food (rice, pasta, bread, etc) and any sort of weight loss when you were already fairly small was seen as unhealthy and “too skinny.” I had cousins with fast metabolisms constantly picked in by their parents for their weight, whereas I was a bit objectified for having curves and developing early around age 12. Curves and an ample amount of body fat are seen as feminine and healthy, hence why that could be a factor in the trend in black people having higher prevalences of bulimia (such as laxatives) whereas white people tend to have higher prevalences of anorexia. I think also, African Americans specifically (the ones who are dealing with a cultural clash between health and wellness in strict African households vs. a defiance of and control of one’s own body in the form of rapid weight loss) assimilate into western culture through controlling our weight and dietary habits, which alienates us from the cultural attitudes about food we were raised in. A possible reason black people with EDs are told we are “trying to be white.”
I'm white and suffered from an ED. This comment was very interesting and enlightening, thank you for sharing!
Probably you are american or european, because as South African I can tell you this is not our reality and I believe your thinking is attached to 20 years ago behavior! As crazy as it seems we follow the worlds trends over here and I can tell you this not our pattern right now! People are crazy about getting that sick skinny addict body and other materials stuffs we can never ''afford''!
Interesting
Thank you so much for sharing. As a white afab person who studied psychology for quite a time, the utter lack of comprehensive mental healthcare and education for/about EDs, (even more than other mental health issues), has always disturbed me. And that lack of available resources and mental health professionals for those with EDs, and the majority of what research there is being focused on white, middle class, cis women/girls- means that our psych education on how minority groups are affected by certain mental health issues, EDs in particular, was noticeably lacking. What I’m saying is, accounts like yours (while not the same as peer reviewed research studies, to be sure, but still very valuable) help fill in bits and pieces of the massive gaps in my education, and while it might not have been your intention, I thank you for helping educate me a bit.
I hope that makes any sort of sense ^_^;
Thank you for sharing. I’m latina and I was also expected as soon as I hit puberty to be curvy just like the rest of my family members. They were curvy albeit morbidly obese at times and I was constantly teased for being too skinny and having “no ass.” I thought binge eating would help me gain some weight and get the curves I was told I was supposed to have. It didn’t work, my body was still developing and I’m just not built like that…which I embraced later on and shed off the extra pounds I made myself gain accidentally when my wisdom teeth were removed. I, like you, also struggle with western wellness culture ( which is touted as eating like a “gringo”) and my Caribbean cuisine, but I have learned to ignore it and incorporate both into my diet in moderation.
Hi, I'm a musicologist who has done a lot of work on the 19th century and also opera in general. I think it's important to note that TB is a rather "handy" disease for storytelling, because A. it can go dormant sometimes (so the character can be vibrant again, temporarily), and B. it's relatively...not gross. Eventually, you get to the coughing up blood stage, but before that, the victim can be depicted mostly as just weak and becoming thinner and more fragile-very feminine. There's also the aspect of it being a handy way to get rid of a problematic female character, but that's another discussion.
Contrast this with something like cholera, which killed tons and tons of people, but is completely disgusting. Cholera could easily turn a romance into a horror show.
Every time TB is used as a narrative device I think about Moulin Rouge lmao
Hi amateur historian here, and I agree. There were other forms of TB that were especially present in children that you got from unpasteurized milk. That one ate giant holes in your spine, along with other things, so not pretty.
Lol imagine someone trying to swap out tuberculosis with dysentery in a story
But isn't TB contagious? How is that not a problem, plotwise?
@@mariad.b.6344 it is but in those days it was bacterial. It wasn’t as contagious as something like the flu, which is viral.
As a woman closing in on 40, THANK GOD for my buccal fat! It’s the only thing keeping people from clocking my real age lol. I’m keeping mine!!!
I'm a little older than you and have always had very pointy cheekbones. I'm okay with them, but it feels like a really "severe" look that I need to balance with something soft (curly hair, soft makeup, etc.). I really don't understand why people would WANT them. Completely seems like trading one problem for another.
Same here fam. I'm not into becoming Cruella de Vill's less glamorous sister, no thank you :D
Right, I'll keep my cute chubby cheeks tyvm
Same girl. I'm 50 and my chubby cheeks means everyone thinks I'm at least 10 yrs younger.
im much younger, but have always had a soft round face and I would NEVER trade it. I have never wanted to and never will. My mom (who is 40+) is the same way haha
My friend's very Italian mom used to say hello by pinching my cheeks and saying, "Ah, so fat!" It was clearly a compliment indicating youth and vibrant health. Italians suffered a lot of deprivation and malnutrition in WWII and afterwards. They remember.
chubby cheeks are also very cute
I resent the fact that dark under eye circles make someone look ill, like for some if us it's just hereditary lol
And this buffalo fat removal I do think it looks ugly on some people but I naturally have these hollow cheeks.so sorry I look 5000 years old everyone !
Buffalo fat 😂 u know what. I mean
for real 😭 ive had deep eye sockets my whole life
ill take it tho because a teacher offered to let me sleep one time 😭
naturally sickly looking girlies stand up 🙋🏻♀️
I really hate mine because of the way people ask me if I'm tired or unwell all the time, and now people draw them on with eyeshadow lol
Your mom fully understanding your taste is so sweet. Every new angle you film at is like a new set.
This reminds me of the time I went to the ER to get a lump in my breast assessed (in my 20s) .The ER doctor told me I was too young to have cancer and laughed ...she couldn't take me seriously . Went to another doctor and got diagnosed with stage 2A invasive breast cancer. Leads me to wonder if a lot of doctors assume we are just hypochondriac due to the social media "chronically I'll aesthetic" as a cancer patient I find it fascinating people are faking an illness that's trying to kill me . I would never wish that on my worst enemy .
When I was in grad school, I did observation in an ER that had instituted a policy for this. If patients reported symptoms indicative of a given illness, the clinicians were required to run the appropriate tests. They were not allowed to second guess a patient without evidence. Time and time again, I saw women initially diagnosed as "FOS" (not to their faces, of course) before the test results came back proving they actually had a serious illness. It's alarming to think how many would have gone without care if those protocols weren't in place.
@@bissenness8106 Is there a way for patients to learn which ERs have these policies in place vs. those who don't?
You can never be too young for anything. I was born blind in my left eye and my baby cousin was born needing a heart surgery so that’s just dumb of that doctor!! I’m sorry for your experience.
Medical professionals that way “you’re too young to be sick” are FRUSTRATING AS HECK. Anyone can be sick. Any age. How do so many of them not know this?
... Same bs with endometriosis... "now that's an older women disease, no need to look in a young person...... Yeah it's an older women disease cause you do not care to look till its to late
As someone who deals with chronic illness, I often pretend I'm a sickly Victorian woman, going mad as I look at my yellow wallpaper. It beats being a modern sickly woman just trying to keep up with the world around me
It’s funny not because it’s funny…but because this is exactly me! I love learning about the Victorian era and just pretend to be a Victorian women taking care of her home in her sickly days. Grew up physically Ill and always looked skinny and sick and tired …it’s always been part of me….I have mental illnesses as well but it’s like no matter how much you try to get better I cannot because it’s like a identity crisis because all I know is…I am sick skinny and I’ll looking…without that what am I?
Love the yellow wallpaper reference! Also chronically ill here.
Maybe this is a weird thing to mix in, but I have thyroidproblems and I also have mental issues. (Trauma, but also autism and adhd, plus the near-anemia and exhaustion.)
Sometimes that means my head is a dark place (and then it is nót fun) but sometimes it is simply a weird place.
Like when I am overwhelmed and it is constantly giving me "pop-ups" with video's or pictures, like a really weird LSD-trip.
As long as it doesn't go towards the dark side, those LSD-trips (without LSD) turn out to be very useful.
If I have them now, I simply announce to anyone demanding my efforts that I am tripping on tiredness, I describe what I see (that freaks them out enough to leave me alone) and then I lay in bed and close my eyes and record my speech, while telling myself what I see.
Or I'll draw, if I am "hallucinating" them with eyes open.
Ever since I started doing this, I keep the sketches in my inspirationbook and I have a heckload of really cool ideas that I want to paint or create. One of those is a painting I'm working on with flying fish and flowers with bubbles. Or a fly that is also an eye. Endless inspiration. Usually the trips are réálly fast bytheway, like 20 ideas in a minute, so I can't write everything down.
As someone struggling with ASD and anxiety(but no physical illness) I think this is a cool act of reclamation!
Mina this was such a cool video. If I could pick on one thing, it’s this: there may be a Western tendency to think of tuberculosis as something of the past. I live in sub-Saharan Africa and TB is a real concern here. It goes hand in hand with HIV/AIDS and is a killer. It’s heartbreaking because while treatments exist, you generally have to take the medicine for 6 months and it has brutal side effects and many give up, especially when they don’t have family support or have other issues like food scarcity. My mother contracted TB while working in a hospital and it was awful, nothing to be glamourised at all.
medical workers in the west still have to get the TB vaccine (I had to get one when I got a job working in the ER doing patient registration) so it's not a totally forgotten thing, but unless you're in the medical field a western person probably isnt going to think about it.
It is shameful in this day when TB is treatable that people suffer and die from it. The rates were so low we stopped giving the vaccine as part of a normal schedule in the USA around 2005. I am sorry that is your reality.
One of the charities I donate to is HeroRATS - they work in areas where TB is still endemic, and the rats sniff samples and can detect latent TB early on when it's easier to treat, before it becomes symptomatic. They have labs in Tanzania, Mozambique, and Ethiopia right now.
Even in the US, though, TB is still an active disease. We do not routinely get vaccines against it, nor do we routinely test for it. The only way anyone gets a test is if they work in a high risk area, or have a known exposure. So there may be many thousands of cases of latent TBI out there that we just don't know about.
Thank you for sharing!
There are vaccines for tuberculosis
i think one point that could've been mentioned is that this trends make girls more vulnerable, especially the one romanticizing mental illnesses such as anorexia, especially in relationships. Because people can prey on these girls specifically because they are more vulnerable ; and to romanticise that may put those girls at risk. Making sickness "pretty" and desirable is dangerous (there is a huge trend of people wanting a "depressed girlfriend" and this is just terrifying imo
Anyway : amazing video as usual thank you Mina ! (And your decor is terrific i want the same)
That's a trend? Wtf? As someone who's dated a few people suffering from depression (not intentionally, just by coincidence) it's horrible. Watching the person you love suffer, and in most cases not being able to really help at all, is just painful and sad. Why would anyone ever want that?
@@Es_Tay easier to take advantage and also for people who have « i can fix her » fetish
I actually struggle with depression and I’ve had men actually come onto me while I was sad because it made me more attractive to them. I’m in my mid-30’s so I just clock this preference as being predatory at this point.
@@samiam2088 What was it about you being sad that was attractive to them?
There is just so much wrong with that concept, from being disrespectful towords suffering, to idealising a partner that is even more depended them women where at that tìme to begin with it is deeply disgusting and I do not get it
“Hello my consumption hotties”
As a consumption hottie myself, I approve.
I forgot this video about about tuberculosis so I thought "consumption" meant "eating" and I was like, that's so me
I very much did not, I have the Look naturally and I do not agree with fetishising misery
They definitely leaned into this in Dracula, where the book loves to talk about how Lucy is so beautiful as she’s dying and then (un)dead.
This is a great point, especially when you consider one of the major themes in Dracula is societal fear of women's sexuality.
Lol you just spoiled Dracula for me (No hard feelings though I had the past 126 years to finish it so it's kinda on me)
I had a role as Lucy in a stage adaption. At first, I thought she was a powerful almost feminist icon but I learned that she was only used to show societal standards put upon women in the 19th century. Very saddening but I loved her :)
I was totally thinking this!!
Take a shot every time undead lucy (or any of the undead women in the novel if memory serves) is described as voluptuous. You'll die of alcohol poisoning by the end of the novel
I lost 20% of my body weight in a short period without trying around the same time that Kim K got really skinny, and people started to discuss the whole resurgence of the Heroin Chic thing. Everyone I know has commented on how “great” I look and quite a few people have expressed outright jealousy that I was able to lose weight so quickly, even though I’ve explained I suffer from an autoimmune disease that can cause fluctuations in my weight and attack my organs.
Some people are jealous of how fragile I look right now, even though behind the scenes my doctor’s are seriously concerned about my health and are sending me to all kinds of specialists to rule out potentially deadly diseases. It just blows my mind that people would *choose* to look sickly and delicate when the people who actually are sickly/delicate are suffering due to health issues. I wonder if they knew about all of ugly things that come with unexplained weight loss, such as hair loss, bruising easily, and a weakened immune system if they would feel the same.
I lost a lot of weight for me due to an autoimmune flare up during Covid. No one made mention of my weight loss, even my doctors. My boyfriend would praise how delicate I looked and when I realized how thin I’d gotten (all my clothes were baggy, and they were 00) I was brushed off. I wasnt allowed to see my dad during that time and eventually I recovered. But when I showed him some photos later on, he was the horrified and very mad that no one tried to help me. I see a dietician now and she was mad when I told her how no dr said anything
yup. had inexplicable (at the time) weight loss in ‘18 that rapidly progressed until my weight in lbs was in the double digits. cousins and aunts told me i looked great and asked me what i was doing to lose weight. “idk, i’m really tired all the time tho. i think i’m sick.” tried to put on weight - muscle, fat, anything - and it wouldn’t stick. i was exhausted, depressed, and had mild cognitive issues.
this January, after lots of bloodwork, doctors finally diagnosed me with adult-onset autoimmune diabetes. i had literally been slowly starving for almost four years. but yeah, i looked “great”.
Not quite the same, but I had a similar thing happen. A few years ago, I stopped eating almost entirely due to a lack of appetite, barely able to stomach a few bites a day. I of course lost weight, and was given compliments about how good I looked (despite the fact I was average before, and became underweight). I even passed out due to my blood sugar dropping, but everyone was focused on the fact I was skinnier.
My partner had anorexia/bulimia a few years ago, and even though xyr mom knew what was causing it, she told xem how good xe looked due to being skinnier
yo this happened to me too! cause of flare up in my lupus triggered by a really bad flu ive lots like 25 pounds since december, but no one assumes its cause im legit sick, they assume its intentional weight loss to fit the beauty standard. theres lots of ugly that comes with it ur right.
Oh hey I got that too, I have a thyroidproblem and I lost 10 kilos (I was 65 before) and I was told that I finally looked mature and should keep it this way.
Not this being posted as I'm sick and laying in bed, imaging that I'm a beautiful victorian heroine expiring for consumption
Relatable content
Me too but since it is for wisdom teeth I am glad I didn't have a Victorian dentist and will be ok next week...
Yeah I've had a chronic illness flareup for the last two weeks and sometimes romanticizing it is what you gotta do to get through it 😭 /lh
i have is and sometimes pretend i have cholera while im sheeting out my insides
Maybe I should just pretend I’m wasting away beautifully as I lose my brain from it eating itself (PPMS), my loose skin should be considered beautiful right cuz I lost 70kg from it 😅 when will we see TikTok’s with fake loose skin as beautiful?!
I was a sick kid during the heroin chic 2000s, literally almost starving to death bc of my illness and my childhood was filled with grown women telling me how jealous they were of my body and it haunts me to this day
OMG thank you for saying this. Survived Cancer as teen and I don't even contour bc it makes my face look like it did when I was 90lbs and near death on Chemo. That's what I see when I see buccal fat removal girlies, they remind me of how my face looked when I was * DYING * It does not make ANY SENSE TO ME that people think Looking like your on the edge of death is beautiful. It's frankly insulting to disabled and sick people everywhere.
Im just finishing my course and the idea that anyone would want to base their aesthetic on the look that makes my infusion nurse order an extra bag of fluids is WILD
Agree!
Well thanks girl, some of us have prominent cheekbones naturally.
@@aduck8myshoes ❤️❤️❤️ get that saline girl LOL but for real hope your issues resolve as quickly as possible and you're not in too much pain ❤️
@@Marina-zg9vpand I'm sure you and your cheekbones are beautiful! That was literally never discussed lol? I have "prominent cheekbones naturally" too chemo or not, but having prominent cheekbones ≠ the same thing as having less than 10% body fat left in your body and as a result face and ≠ cosplaying as someone who is seriously ill . This video, and my comment, are ALL in reference to people specifically cosplaying as seriously Ill, and seeking cosmetic enhancements to look like they have such a little body fat percentage it can't be achieved naturally in a safe way. No one was saying anything bad about prominent cheekbones and sorry if you felt attacked but there's no attack here. We're just two gals who delt with/are dealing with cancer and chatting about our harrowing experiences, we never meant to insult your cheekbones whatsoever...
In my previous university course, Youth culture in schools and society, we read a chapter about this topic.
In Sweden in the late 19th century. the ideal girl was skinny, sick and weak. Girls learned that women were weaker than the strong men, so it is natural for the girls to internalize that message in order to appeal to society norms. There was a value in being ill. After World War 1 the ideal shifted to a healthy and atheltic ideal.
Reference:
Larsson, A-K. (2003). Från korsett till kost. I: Meurling, B. (red). Varför flickor?: ideal, självbilder och ätstörningar. Lund: Studentlitteratur, s.41-65.
[Larsson, A-K. (2003). From corset to diet. In: Meurling, B. (Ed). Why girls? : ideal, self images and eating disorders. Lund: Studentlitteratur, p.41-65.]
Thank you for thinking to include your references. It is something that is not often found in internet conversation.
That is really cool you included references!
This is so fascinating. So why did it change then? Like was it the World Wars that encouraged people to be more productive in a sense? And therefore encouraging health in citizens? I think it's interesting what larger societal factors could've been at play on what the ideal woman, and the ideal man was at the time.
When the men all die the women just need to step up and stop being weak.
@@inuhundchien6041 What does "weak" mean here?
In Bulgaria we still have this “trend” going around in which when someone had a cough the doctor sends them to the mountains for fresh air and steam spa treatments.
if it's covered by insurance, it's sounds especially great
@@queenofnevers6990 "Taking the Waters" is quite common in Germany and Central/Eastern Europe.
I've had severe eczema my entire life. The fact that puffy red skin is now a trend is shocking to me. These people have the privillege of cherry-picking aspects of a disability without living with the parts that destroy your sense of self.
I just wanted to add - the amount of people “faking” disability to get SSDI is incredibly incredibly minuscule, as it horribly difficult for disabled folks to get SSDI (it often takes 6 months to 2 years if you can even get it). The way SSDI is set up is to essentially make sure people can’t get it unfortunately
Thank you so much for talking about this though, especially with the disability context! I actually made a video a few weeks on insta and TT talking about “let’s cosplay illness” aesthetic has contributed to people not seeing us disabled folks as human beings, so it’s so great to see larger creators talking about this too!!!
I'm currently trying to get a disability allowance right now (it's called PIP here in the UK) for my chronic illness. I haven't been able to work for two years 😭 It's super super hard to get but I'll keep trying!!
Sending love to you ❤️ I see you!!
Not to mention how little money they actually give you in the US. A lot of people think we’re raking in cash when it’s the opposite.
@@floatwiththesticks I’m so so sorry it’s taken so long! That’s so incredibly frustrating, like you deserve support and shouldn’t have to work so hard for it. Sending so much love to you too! 💗💗💗
Yes! Yes!
@@duskblooms this!!! The amount that’s given is barely anything to live on, it’s horrible.
my anemic ass watching this in bed as I'm recovering from a lung surgery 👁👄👁 but seriously, everyone takes their good health for granted until it's gone. as much as i try to make myself feel (mentally) better about my own pain, there is nothing beautiful about illness.
I've had to take care of my sick grandparents for years and before they got sick I was into the tumblr heroin chic look, now I just think k it's the complete opposite of glamorous. Watching someone waste away is one of the worst things to see it's sad.
Couldnt agree more! If it means anything, a few years ago I was the sickest I've ever been - I'm immuncompromised and was living in mould, I had repeated pneumonia infections, viruses every few weeks, had to get a bronchoscopy done and spent months on steroids. I couldn't even walk up the street without losing my breath. However, last night, I managed to run 1.7km! I know how difficult it is dealing with lung problems and not having any hope it would ever get better. Focus on your healing for as long as your body tells you, eventually you will find your feet and hopefully return to full health! Sending you love xo
@@rachael5807 aw I'm so happy to hear you got better, that's an amazing accomplishment! I had a VATS surgery + pleurectomy a few weeks ago after my lung collapsed for the second time. 😭 Your words definitely helped, thank you 💕
@@pebbie oh wow that sounds full on, you're a warrior! Once you get back to a stable baseline you'll have so much willpower and strength that healthy people just don't develop. You've got this !! 💛
you doing better?
many ED-ed people i know got their disorder because they wanted to look as sick as they felt on the inside. they wanted to look as sick physically as they were mentally. this fascination with wanting to look sick or even be sick is something i've attributed to wanting to be taken care of and looked after, and i think it's so interesting to think about
I have a thyroidproblem and I want to look sick if I feel sick, because I know that if I look healthy, people will demand things from me and manipulate me into doing them.
Such as schlepping around items when I am too tired, getting out of bed when I am genúienly unable too and will "fall through my legs' or join a group and eat in public when I am overwhelmed and on the verge of tears.
I feel like people constantly need to be reminded of me being unhealthy, so they leave me alone and they listen to me. I also need to learn how to detect when I am overwhelmed and not just join everyone in peerpressure, when they cannot see how sick I am.
It's funny to hear about the "spa retreat" spaces being talked about like a relic of the old times when here in Poland it's still very much a thing. They are called a "sanatorium" or "uzdrowisko" here. Although some look closer to actual hospitals and others more like hotels, a lot of them were established exactly in the 19th century. They are either at the seaside or in the mountains. Depending what health issue you have, the doctor might "prescribe" you a visit to a sanatorium for a month or longer. You will have a lot of different treatments like massages, mineral water baths, special mud compress, inhalations etc. Some places are made specifficaly for kids (there are school classes included) and others for adults. Interestingly I wouldn't say they are associated with higher classes but just regular folks since it's state sponsored usually. Although there is this stereotype about "regulars" of those places which often are lonely retired people or someone unable to work because of health issues who treat trips there as some kind of socialising paties or even to hook up with someone lol. I myself had a visit to such an establishment as a child and tbh it definitely didn't feel to me like a spa trip, more like a torture XD. But those treatments did somewhat help me.
how was it like torture? until i got to the last sentence, my thoughts were "omg sounds fun!" lol. also, is it just prescribed to people w/ physical illnesses or are they for mental ones as well (like depression for example)? this is v interesting to me (& others who come from areas w/o this system) & it's great that it's state sponsored :)
@@shaina8947 I was quite young, almost 7. It was 20 years ago and let's say the conditions at the place I was staying with my mum (kids younger than 7 needed parental supervision and I was there with a 4 yo brother too) were VERY post-communist like. It wasn't luxurious or anything. In retrospective, the treatments weren't bad. But I had to take the inhalations, which basically meant sitting still with a mask on my face connected by a tube to a machine and inhaling some kind of funky smelling cloudy air for 30 minutes everyday. For a small kid it was a bit traumatising. Also they would fill up a big bathtub with the warm water which to me at that time felt like I was drowning cause they told me to fully submerge and I didn't know how to swim yet. At least at one point one of the nurses realised I was scared and my brother too so they put less water in and gave us toys to play with. If someone told me NOW to spend an hour in a bath I would love it lol.
Nowadays those places look a lot better but it also depends to which kind you go. My mum had a chance to stay at basically a hotel meanwhile my grandpa ended up at one looking like a borderline hospital. And you cannot really choose with whom you will be in a room. It's all random (male and female separated). If you apply early enough you could get a room by yourself if you are lucky. If not, you could potentially have a room with or next to someone who carries out whole-night long parties so no sleep for you🙃.
As far as I know, sanatorium is only for physical issues not mental ones. But tbh it could have changed, I just don't know. Maybe there are some specialised in mental health.
Russia too.
As a girl with gastroparesis who did get sickly thin from vomiting nonstop everyday for 6 months, THANK YOU for this. I will be sick forever but i have found treatment and happiness and i am more beautiful than ever at a healthy weight.
Me too! I was off my gastroparesis meds for a few months and looked like a bobblehead.
i literally fainted out of nowhere yesterday and found out i am severely anemic - which explains the running out of breaths and the blacking outs and the tiredness and the lack of periods and many other things - so perfect timing as always mina
hoping you get the care you need!
@@yunglynda1326 yes thank you lmao it was kinda funny to find out, because i literally have horrible dietary habits for years and now they've come to bite me in the ass...
Please take care of yourself if you can! I unknowingly had severe anemia and increasingly was getting sicker and sicker. After a while I was having heart and breathing issues. Severe anxiety, it was difficult to function. Emotional meltdowns almost every day. Intense unwavering exhaustion. Thankfully I realized (through a blood test, which ironically no doctor suggested until I went to France) that the iron I was taking at the time wasn’t enough - I needed 3 x more of it each day. I love Hemaplex (an iron available in the states) and Tardyferon in Europe. These have changed my LIFE. My symptoms are gone, I can breathe - AND, my anxiety is gone. I am a new person. I hope the same can happen for you. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I think one of the most intriguing things my womens social history prof ever said was that she suspected at least some chronically ill middle class women were faking or at least making it out to be worse because it removed them from the strict, suffocating expectations placed on them as wives, social entertainers, etc
This is a topic I find fascinating, as a both disabled and chronically ill person. However, we need to be really careful when assuming we know what a “truly” sick person looks like. Invisible illnesses are real and valid too. I really hazard against calling people out who you think might be faking their illnesses and/or disabilities. Many of us may occasionally pass as able bodied and struggle to have our conditions believed, taken seriously, treated, and diagnosed. Many of us have had to endure being accused of faking our suffering for attention, which often has lead to familial, social, and medical neglect. While those making the accusation of faking might have thought they were doing so in solidarity with the sick and disabled, what they were really doing was contributing to the suffering of that same population.
Yes! Absolutely!
Saying that 'people' 'fake disabilities' can also lead to people, especially with low self esteem, struggling to accept their invisible disabilities.
The amount of time I was convinced that i just 'was not trying hard enough', because I couldn't have ADHD, because today 'everybody has it' and I didn't want to be a faker, is mind boggling.
@@elrikstronginthearm9267 same, dude 💙🫂
Totally! But I think the discussion is more on the "convenient" inconsistencies that happen a lot with illnesses/disabilities on the internet. Like the Tiktoker who claimed to have Tourettes, but only had the most overt/dangerous episodes, while simultaneously and conveniently not hurting themselves (i.e. the time they were cooking on a hot stove with violent hand/arm spasms, but conveniently didn't burn themselves on camera).
For the most part, so long as the person isn't trying to excuse themselves from a horrendous crime using illness/disability as a shield from facing consequences, I doubt there's any reason to "call out" people on whether they're faking or not. I'd stick to calling out perpetrators/criminals conveniently conjuring up their illnesses to avoid prison.
@@janefins261 all I’m saying is that there are likely far more invisibly ill people who are accused of being fakers than there are fakers and we need to be careful. I’m not into gatekeeping these identities, especially as the lines between well and unwell, sick and healthy, are much blurrier than is popularly understood.
This isn't pertaining to sickness per se, but this topic reminds me of the poisoning deaths in Chinese palace dramas. Amidst ornate silks and twinkling hair ornaments, a beautiful consort will drink poisoned tea, and begin to ✨prettily✨ cough up blood, while her eyes go glassy with tears and she proceeds to faint ✨daintily✨ lol
Yes, in movies, they 'princess-faint' or get a 'princess-epileptic-attack' and in real life, an actual victim is nót pretty during an epileptic attack.
I heard people fantasizing about wanting to be an epileptic, because in their mind, you prettily faint, everyone cares for you, you wake up with people petting your hair and you get to go home to rest.
In reality, you likely wake up in trousers covered in urine, having bitten your tongue, some nasty teenage boys mocking you in the near distance and some annoying teacher asking you wáy too loud if you are *OKAY?!*
I believe part of the romantisation of illness would be a coping mechanism of telling oneself suffering and death are meaningful and dignified.
I wonder if the whole vampire chic thing stems from this as well. Think pale skin, red lips blood trickling from the mouth. And you could also look at Snow White as potentially being a folk tale about beautiful illness as well. Also love the new background ❤
Mina, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts + well-researched information on this topic and calling out some of the impacts it had / has on society. As a woman living with multiple chronic health conditions (one major chronic disorder that is the cause of several severe symptoms, each of which are their own chronic health diagnoses), I can attest that this issue greatly affects the way doctors regard their patients, for I spent over 15 years of my life suffering debilitating symptoms that were either untreated or mismanaged because I was repeatedly misdiagnosed or dismissed by numerous doctors throughout that time. I believe the issues you’ve addressed continue to tarnish doctors’ ability to take their patients seriously and have an unbiased full-picture view of their patient’s symptoms. Like many chronic health conditions, mine are mostly invisible (especially to anyone who doesn’t know me well), which makes it inherently hard to “prove” your symptoms, but it’s *especially* hard in a world where people are out there faking symptoms/illness. And while I now have a correct medical diagnosis (and medical tests to document its existence) and proper medical treatment, people often do not realize that I *still* deal with all of my symptoms (!!)….in varying degrees, the symptoms’ severity and/or frequency is lessened by the prescriptions I take, but they are not cured. Also, a delayed diagnosis can often have long-term implications, because many chronic health conditions drastically *worsen* overtime when they aren’t properly managed…this is the case for me, and this lessened quality of life has a definite ripple effect. For instance, it took me a long time to finish college…and after graduating last year as an adult student, I still haven’t been hired because I lack experience (was unable to juggle an internship + the pandemic of course limited any available options) and because my symptoms are so bad that I need to either work full-time from home or have a part-time position that’s very close to home since I cannot drive very far. Anyways, sorry this was so long. Just wanted to share this with you in case you would like to create a part-two video that delves deeper into the topic of this video. Thanks so much for all of the interesting information/knowledge you share. ❤️
P.S. I truly love your setup! 😍 It echos your uniquely fabulous personal style, and I imagine the rest of your home is just as amazing! Your mom really pulled through with those amazing pieces! Seems like she must really understand you, and that’s a really awesome thing if so!
The buccal fat thing is honestly funny to me because real ones have been clocking bella hadid for it for yearssss and everyone gave that “puberty and dieting” bullshit, but now those same people are up in arms when the surgery has become obvious and more accessible 😂 Like are we mad or arent we?!
There's something about hearing people excitedly explaining their decor or fashion choices that brings me joy.
This makes it really hard for those of us with debilitating diseases to actually get treatment. I feel like I have to carry all of my images and test results with me to every appointment for the express purpose of not being told it's all in my head. It hurts my heart and I hope this trend goes away soon.
Yes! Same
same! glad you said that. so mentaly unhealthy that we need to convinse every new doctor of our factual lillnes. as a kid I never thought of it, my mom was doing the job. but transition into solo meetings with doctors was rough
I agree but I don’t think it’s this trend’s fault, doctors just don’t believe patients because of inherent societal ableism, the trends are a symptom of this, not a cause
It can take awhile to find a doctor to believe us and take us seriously. Who WANTS to go to a doctor? I can think of a thousand things I’d rather do. One doctor actually told me I had “PBS” poor baby syndrome! Wtf jerk!! 😡😡 ahole - I found another doctor who listened kindly.
I’ll be honest with you - people were misbelieved before tiktok too. Sometimes even more. It’s not people who are faking it but people who accuse of it that are the cause for this issue. It was before social media and stems from misogyny and calling people hysteric too.
It is annoying when I am hurting with my chronic illness in the hospital and I'm told I'm too pretty to be sick or how young I look or even with the weight gain/loss that your face is still beautiful because this leads to under and maltreatment which is compounded by my race and sex because I don't look sick to medical staff. I also dress up to make myself feel better so I'm judged by that as well. There's nothing cute about having a genetic disease, frequent treatments, hospitalizations, etc. It's a difficult life, especially as a single mom and a grad/post grad pursuant. The fact that I cannot talk about this often because many think I'm saying this for vanity but I go by what others say and how I'm constantly maltreated due to it. It's not beautiful to put on this aesthetics because if you become ill/disabled you will not find it nor yourself beautiful. I long for my healthier days.
Fabric is a great alternative to wallpaper! If you mix cornstarch and water you can attach it to the wall very easily! It holds up very well and is extremely easy to peel off when you are ready to take it down. And the cornstarch washes off with just a little warm water. I redid the walls of my rental in this way
I also feel like as a disabled person who has an invisible condition related to pain as well as chronic illnesses like migraines if you don't look "sick enough" people get upset with you. Like people have come up to me and told me I dont look disabled and I have had doctors at my pain clinic tell me I am too young to be there. Because obviously illnesses and disability only happen to the elderly. I almost feel glad that I am in my 30s now because people wont question me talking about my body being in pain as much as they did in my 20s because I felt like I was always questioning if they were right and maybe I wasn't as bad as I thought I was.
No kidding. The assumption that young people, especially women, can't be unhealthy or in pain, or that their pain is lesser, is severely damaging.
I think people who want attention and pity should learn that it's okay to ask for company if you're lonely or to ask your loved ones for snuggles. You don't have to go to extremes to be taken care of.
THANK YOU!!!! After years suffering from a multitude of undiagnosed illnesses I finally got diagnosed which led me to finally get medication. Although I do feel better the meds made me go from “over weight and bed ridden” to “in pain but able to move and much MUCH smaller”. Despite the weight loss being unhealthy for me, to the point where my doctor has made me go to a nutritionist to lessen/slow down the speed at which I’ve been getting smaller, I am constantly getting compliments because I’m smaller now. They don’t care that the medication has made other symptoms appear.
“It’s good you have so many food restrictions, because you’re losing weight.” (I can’t go to restaurants anymore, and have cried in public bathrooms because my grandmother bought something when I said I couldn’t eat it then she yelled at me for not eating it)
“Sure you’re weaker, but you used to be so bulky so it’s good that you’ve lost muscle.” (Not even joking)
“I wish I was so sick I had to take meds that made me disgusted by food.” (I had emergencies called for me three time last year, the level of embarrassment of being wheeled into a back room at a fucking hardware store and so out of it I remember a total of 10min of the hour and a bit I was there IS NOT CUTE)
These have ALL been said to me and more. Honestly the worst part is I used to be confident, but every “compliment” (read: pointing out I’m sick and weak and unable to fucking do anything for myself without it being a whole event) comes with mentioning something they disliked about the body I used to have.
That body could walk down stairs.
That body could cook.
THAT body is still how I see myself, who I really am. Who I was. Who everyone judged and lied to my face about.
That body loved me, this one I don’t even recognize.
You mentioned the 2010 trend in Japan, but now Yami Kawaii (Sick Cute) and Menhera (mental health-er) are still hanging onto popularity. My students just did a presentation (in English) on makeup trends here in Japan, and they highlighted these.
someting that i think also relates to this topic is the german poetry of "Expressionismus". It developed during and after WW1 and contains topics like "die Ästhetik des Hässlichen" (the aesthetic of the ugly). it showcases an intense interest in death and disease and sometimes romanticises it as well. An example would be "Ophelia" by Georg Heym. I think it is a very disturbing but also interesting topic and you might enjoy researching it.
I was JUST talking about the Smallpox and TB thing with a friend! I remember having a project in HS about Lord Byron and coming across the line “How pale I look! - I should like, I think, to die of consumption … because then the women would all say, ‘see that poor Byron - how interesting he looks in dying!’” this topic is incredibly fascinating and it's so interesting how it carried on to current times.
Haha wow, I have cystic fibrosis and before my lung transplant I was giving "tuberculosis chic" - severely underweight, sheet white, dark undereye circles, sunken cheeks, etc. And I was dying y'all! It's pretty gross people want to look like that on purpose or adopt the aesthetic of illness without experiencing its true horrors.
My son has cystic fibrosis 💗 sending all of the love to you
@@susannebambam thank you! I'm doing much better now after my double lung transplant. Hope your son is doing well too!
thank you for this!! i’m in recovery for eds and bdd, as well as having chronic illnesses and disabilities, both physical and mental. (though they are all “invisible illnesses”) i appreciate you not overlooking the ableist rhetoric and ideals that drive beauty trends like these. especially with what that means currently for the disabled community.
i would have loved to have heard a bit more about the cultural impacts that these more current and/or resurfacing trends could have however. especially in relating to eating disorders, youth/teens coming of age at this point in the beauty ideal cycle, body modification/mutilation, how “trendy” or fake illnesses further drive ableism and stigma, (leaving those of us who are disabled to have an even greater disadvantage.) disabled or chronically ill people with invisible illnesses who are discriminated against or gaslit because we “don’t look sick,” people in larger bodies, brown and black bodies, not being believed to be ill because of this (no pun intended) narrow view of what illness “looks like,” and more.
it’s not that your video wasn’t great bc it *was.* i just happen to have a massive interest and personal investment in this topic and it’s possible branches!
*however* i loved this video! and i fully realize you were focusing on the beauty ideal and keeping the video under 37.68 hours long. i’m just continuing the conversation that you kindly started and put so much thought and work into. this may be one of my favorites, it’s hard to tell though bc you always knock them out of the park. 🖤💫
I love these ideas, and think that it's important to talk about and discuss the many layers of ableism and how it interacts w other forms of oppression. I don't think Mina is the person to cover them though. It would be better if Mina linked to videos or articles from people in the community instead of speaking on issues and experiences she may have little knowledge on. I would love to see a crossover between Mina's content and a disability justice artist/educator for example.
As someone who is just gaining back their health after literal years of feeling less capable, weak, tired and sick, this is incredibly insulting. I'm immunocompromised and used to get chronic pneumonia, infections, muscle pains, rashes, and I spent so long on medications that made my skin dry and pale, my face bloat, and my body frail. I've worked so hard to get to a point where I'm not constantly missing out on life or activities, and as a result of getting better, the glow I have in my skin and healthy weight I'm at is something so special and sacred and amazing to me. It is frankly quite bizarre to me that anybody would trade that up in favour of looking sick for aesthetic reasons. Not to mention the years it took to be taken seriously. Same thing goes for my adhd, I got diagnosed around the same time and now content is finally being made that I can relate to, but it's hard to find through all of the people who trivialise it for views or medication.
13:00 reminded me of the one woman who had jumped off a building and landed on a car, her picture was taken and it became a huge thing because “oh she’s so beautiful even though she’s dead!!” 😒
There was a beauty trend in Japan and/or Korea where girls would draw dark undereye makeup so they had the tired cute look, and not to mention the latest cold girl look. Maybe for some reason if we look ill we look more vulerable, which tends to be a characteristic that a gentle pretty girl would have
i highly recommend you read susan sontag's "illness as a metaphor", its not about fashion (understandably) but it talks at lenght about tuberculosis and how it became sth to be desired as a mark of particularly interesting personality and an artistic inclination and there are some sections that link it to the development of beauty standards in the 20th century
its weird to me how looking sick can be seen as cute bc infantilism but simultaneously the second ur actually sick and need care these people suddenly dont want to step up, even tho their whole attraction is based on your helplessness when related to ur illness?? its very dark idk. im autoimmune, constantly sick with different things, people alwayysss tire of my helplessness. make ur minds up ppl
genuine thoughts:
there’s certain people who claim to have over a hundred mental and physical illnesses, but sometimes i can’t help thinking that some of it is just them romanticizing being ill and unhealthy (for any sort of form of attention- good or bad). like i definitely do not want to discredit them, but i can’t help but notice the parallels between them and münchausen syndrome.
i feel like we should instead try romanticizing doing what’s best for ourselves and be as healthy as our abilities allow us to, at our own pace.(not in a toxic way tho)
but it also makes me wonder if some people romanticize illness and pain because they are comfortable in that state of being idkkk
Shout out to Mina's mom who made all of this possible!
I AM sick. Most recently: Stage 3b/Grade1 Inflammatory Breast Cancer Lupus, Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, Dysautonomia, Postural Orthostatic Tachycardic Symdrome, and Celiac Disease. That's a lot, huh. Now, most people don't believe that I have that laundry list of maladies. Cancer really bumps up the believability of my claims of illness. So does my shower chair. But, most folks think I am looking for "handouts."
sending so much love as another chronically sick person, I’m sorry you’ve experienced that from folks. It’s really frustrating to see sickness as an aesthetic when people literally won’t believe our lived experience
Sending all my love. Chronic illness here too. POTS, and others. I'm so angry others haven't taken you seriously until you suffered from something they thought was valid. Fuming for you.
Mina!! This was fascinating. I gawked when you said “tuberculosis core.” I can’t believe that’s a thing!! But as a lover of classic literature, I recognized it immediately. I was born with a congenital heart defect and have had two open heart surgeries. When I was young, I was a very skinny, pale kid and I always joked that I looked like a sad Victorian child. I love my scars and think they tell a great story but I don’t want to romanticize them or use them for pity. I am so grateful for my health and can’t help but shake my head on why anyone would even want to give the appearance of illness for aesthetics. It’s pure silliness!
So, I'm very pale and have really deep dark circles under my eyes, which is something that always bothered me to no end and which I got mocked for in school, but both things are unchangeable (I tried), since they're hereditary.
But once in a while a guy who likes me will tell me the strangest things about those aspects of my appearance, like "you look a bit like your undead, yes, but in a soft, romantic sad vampire girl way" or, even weirder "I like the dark circles, they make you look like those slightly manic but brilliant, frail artist characters from anime"
TW: addiction, SH, mental illness, eating disorders!
I've been talking about this with my friends a lot. I often think about the time when tumblr was a huge deal and eating disorders as well as self harm were an "aesthetic". While exposing people to the fact that mental illnesses exist is important, during this time mental disorders, scars from self harm and bruises as well as very skinny women and men were being romanticised (i am very skinny myself but these pictures suggested eating disorders and a mental illness and not a natural body type).This also applies for Lana del Rey's Music. She sings about addiction, abuse and mental illness. A lot of people loved it but never really realised that she may actually experience these issues. Now that she's doing better and has gained weight a few fans are upset. But they don't realise she is doing well now and the person she was before was sick.
I hope these "trends" won't come back but they probably will :(
(I hope everything is correct bcs english isn't my mother tongue)
9:42 seeing the cocaine toothache drops made me do a double take because i continuously forget that people used to take hard drugs to relieve any ailments they had in the past
Just wanted to let you know that they still do. Fentanyl and opioids are hard drugs. That is why sometimes *sometimes* _sometimes_ (SOMETIMES!) I have more empathy towards "crazy ladies" on video that are screaming about their Frappuchino being cold in Starbucks, because god knows what they are on, but since they are Americans, it must be some drugs in some cases.
A few years ago, I got sick with endocarditis and dropped 50-60 lbs within like 10 months. I have naturally chubby cheeks but my face was so sunken in and I had other physical symptoms too like my hair was falling out, rashes on my legs, but I can't tell you how many people told me how pretty I looked, while I was DYING, because I was really thin.
Ah yes, my favorite compliment. “You look diseased.”
made my day 😄
I remember watching my mom die young of cancer and thinking of all the movies and shows and young pretty women dying tragically, but majestically.
But it wasn’t that. It was trying to navigate her sobbing and screaming because she feared dying, it was her fearing me as she lost her mind, it was fearing her outbursts, changing diapers, break downs, fighting her to let me take care of her, losing independence, and so much more. I’m not saying death should be feared, but it’s not glamorous either and no one should want that kind of end to life. I also think it’s damaging to not be more vocal and open about what dying sick actually looks like.
I've been seeing these trends a lot recently and I'm glad you covered it
I like these type of videos. It really shatters that thing people keep saying about people suddenly becoming worse out of nowhere. The things they complain about have been around in some way since forever.
I'm anemic, and I just found out my iron is through the floor again after two years of relative okay. I knew I needed to go get bloodwork done when I could barely walk without having to catch my breath, and sure enough, my red blood cells are struggling with the oxygen thing. It affects my entire body, and I lose weight, and because I'm fat kid, everyone says I look great. I just want to scream "Do you see my sunken face!? That I can barely get oxygen?!" It's all sorts of toxic and bless their hearts they really don't realize how they are being. I have to remember that "society" got to them too...they aren't purposely trying to make me feel bad.
as someone who was born with heart disease my whole life i have seen it happen typically with the adult women in my life either knowingly or unknowingly, “you’re so skinny” i’m underweight and physically weak “your skin is so porcelain” i don’t have enough oxygen, there’s some sort of fascination with my appearance that comes from the older women in my life and with the men they feel as though i’m some damsel in distress & like they’re some hero if they run to my aid there’s a special place in my heart for people who treat me just the same, the people who let me ride rollercoasters without looking over their shoulders the whole time, or the men who watch me struggle to open the pickle jar before they offer help and the people that do understand it is not always a privilege to be in a body that looks like mine
I giggled at the thumbnail, cuz I’m actually currently dealing with tuberculosis 😂
And let me tell ya…it ain’t fun, I lost a bizarre amount of weight in two weeks and looked grey like a chewed up piece of gum
“A beautifully and mentally ill woman who glamorously drawns” I snorted out my coffee, even though I knew Mina was about to point out the ridiculousness of these portrayals. I guess their silliness never fails to amaze me
I keep coming back to these videos recently because I got sepsis at 19 and it changed my life really. One of the main things is from 19 to 21/22 I weighed 6st 12 to 7st 1 at 5"8. I will stress my weight loss was never intentional. The comments you got from the public were overwhelming positive. I think it was the mix of being young and so thin. I'm turning 24 and have been with my partner a year trying to gain weight (I'm now 7st7 which is still quite underweight despite eating so much) but it's insane trying to go against the trend. All I will say is being so ridiculously thin makes you so tired. Too tired to do anything productive. You will waste your life.
I've become chronically ill recently and this whole association that "illness equals being waify" makes me laugh bitterly, because in reality being chronically ill and in pain means being unable to move around much, which makes us actually gain weight. But that will never become fashionable, now won't it :D
Yupppp. Chronic illness often makes people gain weight, and it makes our experiences of ableism even worse bc of how ableism and fatphobia reinforce each other. Even more so if you're bipoc or afab
Ugh this is so real. I have UC which is famous for making people drop weight faster than the speed of goddamn light. I experience the complete opposite. Years of being on and off corticosteroids, my digestion and hunger cues getting screwed with, among other things have caused me to gain weight instead. Take a guess if this has caused any issues with doctors taking me seriously in the past 🥲
@@hheinous absolutely same
What an egocentric overgeneralisation. One chronic illness can be to another condition day is to night. Many chronic conditions actually lead to (often sudden) weight loss, such as Crohn's disease and any other diagnosis involving the gastrointestinal area. Rheumatoid flare-ups often include the absence of an appetite or nausea as well. The term "wasting sickness" coined primarily for tuberculosis (but also other conditions) wasn't chosen out of the blue, many illnesses include people's muscles (and their fat) literally wasting away, especially if the chronic illness hasn't been discovered yet.
The "chronic illnesses always lead to weight gain" stereotype is annoying, wrong and hurtful towards those affected by the opposite, such as those who have to watch as their own body continues to waste away, unable to do anything while constantly being accused of having an eating disorder. Corticosteroids are one of the primary reason why many people will certain chronic illnesses will either be overweight or look "bloated", and the fact that being overweight increases one's chances of developing several chronic illnesses (and in reverse, some illnesses obviously do come with a higher risk of obesity, mostly by affecting our metabolism, endocrine system, etc) may warp one's perception as well. But being chronically ill or in chronic pain is as much associated with weight loss as it is with weight gain.
@@zkkitty2436I suggest you to read up on the various cases where chronically ill people died from their conditions as a result of their weight loss/them being unable to keep anything down not having been taken seriously. Young women and girls especially are at a higher risk of being written down as having an eating disorder and thus being viewed as a psychiatric patient, which often leads to either a late diagnosis of the actual condition (a type of cancer/sickle cell anemia, gastrointestinal disorders,...) or them dying and the cause of their symptoms only being discovered during an autopsy. To imply that non-obese and especially skinny people who are chronically ill are experiencing less ableism is absurd, egocentric and false.
Tuberculosis has an interesting history relating to vampires(if I’m remembering right) as well.
Oh! This is definitely a problem. I have a serious chronic disease that unscrupulous doctors infected me with - hepatitis C. And I look good - for more than 11 years I have been on a medical diet, taking medications and trying to do everything to minimize the impact of the disease. However, even from doctors I can hear "you look good/young! You can't get sick with this!" By the way, it is precisely because I feel good and my indicators put me at the end of the queue for the delivery of medicine. I'm not sick enough to get treatment
To me being sick as a fashion statement makes a lot of sense. I feel like being sick can become trendy not only for the delicate feminine look it can give to a person as Mina mentioned, but also because sickness can be a very comforting state for a lot of people (not to confuse with people actually faking a whole disease for attention, thats on a way deeper levle). When you're sick you're being taken care of, you're expected of less, loved ones worry for your well-being and you get some rest. Is a fast pacing, achievement oriented and pressurefull world, I can see how easily sickness can be romanticized and desirable, thus becoming part of fashion.
This completely ignores the reality of being sick though. What you're saying might apply to short-term illness, but that's highly dependent on whether you have a support system to fall back on and people around to care for you.
The reality is that people close to you often abandon you when you become chronically ill. Sympathy and care are often short term, after which point you are accused of not trying hard enough to survive. You're still expected to be energetic enough to do things people around you see as valuable, and showing the pain (physical or mental) that you're in makes people around you uncomfortable. You can't often engage in public life, and become isolated.
In the case that you are pitied instead of accused of laziness, you still face dehumanization as people see your life as a tragedy they'd never want to live through. Ableism is constant and is enforced by everyone, regardless of whether they're medical professionals or everyday people. People who occupy other intersections of marginalization still seem comfortable in letting disabled people die. Look at the way many multiply marginalized folks and "leftists" are calling disabled people woke-scolds for asking people to continue to mask as spread of COVID has not reduced.
People who see sickness as desirable harbor ableist ideas and often are removed from reality. Being sick or disabled is unbelievably difficult.
I disagree. When you're sick for a longer period of time people get tired of taking care of you, you're still expected to do more than you physically can, you feel guilty about people constantly worrying about you and a lot of diseases cause you to be more tired than usual. Being sick is only desirable until you actually are sick. No one enjoys feeling like shit all the time lol
"sickness can be a very comforting state for a lot of people" Tell me you don't have a sickness without telling me you don't have a sickness.
This is NOT true, sick people are taken care of for very little time, after which we are seen as burdens, you might say this is what people IMAGINE being sick is but you cannot say it is a reality
I agree on this so much! Definitely has to do with the feeling of being taken care of. I mean there are so many fanfics of a boyfriend/girlfriend taking care of their hurt loved one (and even stories)
I have a chronic illness that caused some severe complications with my skin when I was 17. It caused scarring all over my body as well as my face. And I‘m not talking about a small scar on the cheek, but scars that have been called disfiguring by some doctors and some people have had really bad reactions when they saw it for the first time. As a 17 year old this was detrimental to my confidence. It wasn’t pretty or aesthetic, only humiliating. Luckily this was during Covid so I often was able to cover the scars with a mask and it gave me time to build my confidence. Also the scars healed so that now two years later they don’t look as bad anymore. I’m still planning to get plastic surgery to “fix” my face.
Just wanted to leave this here for people to think about. Illness is only aesthetic if you still look like a runway model.
Loved this video! As a chronically ill person I think it’s also important to acknowledge that due to people faking being sick (which isn’t very common but obviously happens) and ableism in general many sick and disabled are assumed to be faking their illnesses and disabilities even by the doctors who treat us
Yup . I’ve been disabled for 8 years and I actually have my disability review appointment today . I’m so nervous for these reasons .
As a Pulmonary TB survivor all I can say is that the sickness should never be glamorized. I can still remember the 6 months of struggle during my treatment, the hacking guttural cough from the inside of my lungs, the sprinkle of blood on tissues, the constant fever, it also leaves a mark on my lungs that will never go away. I still remember everyday I am lying on my bed with just one wish which is just to recover. It’s the hardest part of my life and no one deserves to feel that pain from the sickness that I felt.
Mina you are the only “Deep dive” UA-camr I love not only to listen to but actually look at you! Always looking absolutely stunning and this background is something else ❤
Hi Mina, I’ve been a fan for a long time, and always appreciate the nuanced complexity of your videos. I’m not surprised to see a lot of comments from chronically ill and disabled folks here, but as someone who is chronically and invisibly ill and disabled I have some additional thoughts. How illness and disability are treated and dealt with in contemporary culture (and the past) are incredibly complex and ableism is so pervasive that there’s a lot to touch on here.
First let’s talk about the “faking” discourse. The media LOVES to highlight these stories of people faking illness for perceived benefit. As you have shown there are obviously cases where this is true, and while I appreciate your acknowledgement that many ill or disabled people are bullied and accused of faking, we need to focus more on the fact that the fakers are a fraction of a percent compared to those of us who are actually ill and just fighting for any scraps. This is partially due to the fact that people in most developed countries seem to believe there are numerous benefits awarded to disabled folks. I am most familiar with the benefits systems in the US (where I live) and the UK, but the reality is for the most part disabled folks are kept well below the poverty line and forced to stay there in order to receive crucial benefits that allow us to live our day to day lives. We are not given anything, we have to fight for EVERYTHING, and then as reflected in some comments I’ve seen here (regarding SSDI and other benefits systems) many of us still get nothing. The perceived benefit many able bodied people believe is associated with disability is itself deeply ableist, and could’t be farther from the truth. I myself am an ambulatory wheelchair user (I can walk and stand but only for very short periods so I use a wheelchair sometimes outside of the home to allow me access to more spaces and activities). There is relatively little awareness in our culture that ambulatory wheelchair users even exist. Because of the level of policing from non disabled members of the public, I carry a deep level of fear every time I leave the house that I will be yelled at by strangers just for moving my legs in my wheelchair. If you want to see more content from ill people about the impact of being accused of faking I would suggest looking at people like @disabled_eliza and @thechroniciconic on instagram.
Thank you for your discussion of Ugly Laws. This is something I still see discussed very little outside the disabled community, and the legacy of Ugly Laws and forced institutionalization are very much factors in how ill and disabled people are treated today. Why should we be surprised about the lack of awareness and extent of ableism, when disabled people and other groups considered “undesirable” were literally hidden out of public view as recently as a hundred years ago.
You don’t really get into this but I do think it is worth acknowledging the complexity of how medicine has changed since the tuberculosis era and how the medical model of disability very much effects how ill and disabled people are dealt with today. The advances in modern medicine are of course amazing, as can be seen by increased life expectancy and decreased infant mortality rates, etc. However the modern medical system has created a belief that bodies are problems to be fixed. This belief is held most fervently by many doctors. They want to “fix” your “broken” body and if they can’t they want nothing to do with you because acknowledging they can’t would make them a failure under this model. This is not wholly disconnected from the phenomenon of ill wealthy women being sent to the seaside but has built upon a history of female identifying people, with ambiguous, hard to treat or little understood illnesses having incredibly complex relationships with doctors and the medical community. And complex relationships with our own bodies, many of us rejecting the idea that our bodies are broken or need to be fixed, while others are desperate for a fix to debilitating symptoms, and still many of us who feel both at different times.
The idea that illness is a moral failing is not limited to things like syphilis and sadly didn’t die in the 16th century. This kind of thinking is still very prevalent today.
I also want to touch on the complexity of “tuberculosis-core” from the perspective of an ill person. And of course I’ve seen a lot of comments that discuss varying views on this because chronic illness and disability are not a monolith. I’m not sure if you’re aware of the instagram account @fromthefaintingcouch but it is an account that creates memes out of historical paintings primarily from the Victorian era about living with chronic illness. There are others who have taken on this approach and honestly one of my favorite chronic illness memes of all time, pictures a woman swooning on a fainting couch/chaise lounge with a man leaning over her saying “you told me you were interesting” and she replies “ i said i was ‘into resting’”. To me things in this vein feel like a reclaiming. A way of contextualizing and creating humor out of the fact that I spend the bulk of my life at home on the couch unable to do much else. But this imagery may not resonate with other ill folks and non ill people adopting this attitude could of course be seen as appropriation. I think the core point is that ill and disabled people deserve bodily autonomy just like everyone deserves bodily autonomy (this statement is also relevant to fat folks, as I find there is A LOT of overlap between ableism and fatphobia).
Oh and the pretty privilege you mention also effects how members of the disabled community are treated. Invisible illness is living at the complex intersection of receiving relative privilege for not “looking disabled” while also simultaneously not having people recognize that you can physical limitations without it being visible in any way. The fact that both these things are true are of course more evidence of ableism, and how little our society understands about disability.
This is a subject i was thinking about lately, thank you for covering it!
As someone who has Tourette’s it’s so fucking annoying bc at this point in my life my tics are kinda rare (it usually reduces or disappears in adulthood), but when I do have them people have not believed me because of shit on tiktok
i have genetic dark circles and have been insecure about them for a longe time, and when i saw that byojaku (didn't know the name before tho) style i loved it, i incorporated it into my make up bc it makes me feel cute
Hi Mia! Watching this video made me more curious about how these cultures are cyclical. As you mentioned, in the 90s there was also a glamorization of sickness and illnesses, I remembered exactly that at that time there was also a "healthy" fashion, gym and relaxation. Got me thinking - is this new trending the answer to the "Clean Girl green juice and healthy lifestyle" era, and how this affects the 'fast-trending/fashion' that now exists on social media? I remember seeing one of these videos on your channel, I would love to see an in-depth look at this cyclical era. PS.: I loved the new scenery!
I appreciate the way you approached this topic, it's something I think a lot about because I'm chronically ill and that comes with a large set of assumptions and a heavy history attached. Thank you, and I love your new furnishings!
as a chronically ill and mentally ill person, my heart hurts for all the people like me in the comments. just reading through your stories is so relatable...it's so crazy what we deal with when we have "invisible" illness. i'm afraid to even talk about it much on social media because i don't want people to think i want attention for it, or think i'm faking because i only post about the "highlight reel" of my life and me being disabled doesn't make sense to them. what an upside down world we live in
Living with endometriosis, fibromyalgia, and hyper mobile joints is just like hell. Looking in the mirror seeing my pale skin, dark under eye circles and acne is a big reminder. I still think I’m cute but I do sometimes cover it all with makeup to fake feeling normal…
Finding other people do the opposite is kinda weird 😅
Just wanted to say I LOVED that you did a video on this and you did an amazing job!! I'm a person who became disabled just in the last two years as the result of an untreated case of Lyme disease which caused a ton of health problems for me, including rapid unintentional weight loss due to stomach disease and a thinner/bonier face. When I get compliments on specifically my sickness-caused appearance or see trends LIKE the bucal fat removal you talked about, or further trends in weight loss, I get so upset because it's like, people are trying to imitate something that sick people have and DON'T want. It always goes with privilege and is def also a subcategory of cultural appropriation for sure. Glad you talked about this in such a nuanced way!
Brava, and well-handled.
Signed, a disabled woman with one of those conditions that keeps me bedbound most of the time
Thank you so much for covering this topic, especially the modern stuff, with sensitivity and fairness. So many people don’t realize that people’s safety is affected by how you talk about this.
Thank you, Mina, for keeping me up to date on all the insane things that people decide to romanticize.
ugh the utter genius. how do you come up with and shape your topics?? and the editing!! immaculate.
Not gonna lie as someone who is genuinely ill and loves historical fashion, I absolutely love being a dying Victorian boy moving to the seaside for the air (I genuinely moved to the seas in the hope to get a bit better, it worked). But when well people do this is feels really weird.
It makes me very happy that my sweetheart has been vocal and genuinely thrilled when I started getting healthier - pinker, plumper, more energetic, and happy! Chronic illness sucks!
I’ve been procrastinating watching this bc I knew how triggering it would be as someone who is chronically and now effectively terminally ill and oh boy was that a good assessment 🙃
I think the most important thing to note is rarely if ever do people who are actually sick/d-ing ever get anything other than ab-se related to their aesthetic state- let alone normalcy let alone praise. Consumptive chic is and always has been for the abled to cosplay being sick- and it’s not just aesthetic. It’s about the inspiration pcorn instant gratification of a makeup wipe at the end of the day. Literally exists to signal to oneself the societal power inherent in a perfectly functioning body/the subsequent self-obsessed class reinforcement by getting to take the costume off and assure yourself you’re “not one of them”, and it’s dangerous.
you’re literally a sociologist i love you
I did my visual anthropology essay on this exact topic in media and art!
Susan Sontag did a great job writing about this theme in "Illness as metaphor"! I really recommend it.
Side-eyes the stories that shaped my childhood and massively influenced the tropes I like: Oh dear, we have a problem.