Gen X's Politically Homeless Problem | with Jenny Holland
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Jenny Holland is a Gen X writer who is taking a long hard look at why "the left left" her. We discuss whether Gen X failed Liberalism, or Liberalism failed Gen X.
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Dear Benjamin,
I watched everything you did about Evergreen avidly. Then you got into detransitioners. Great work - but too depressing to watch much of.
Now I am back watching because you are one of the Masters of the long form interview.
Never stop!
Fainites
Yes I found much of the detransitioning stuff so sad and unbearable to watch. Love his work though.
It's a sad topic but I'm grateful Benjamin has been covering it. This is a very dangerous new paradigm for kids. I was a tomboy and if I'd been born in 2000, I would've been "diagnosed" as a trans boy. I shudder to think how my life would be now if I'd gotten puberty blockers, testosterone, and possibly even surgery.
I wonder if you could have Mike Rowe on your podcast. Her bringing up being sold a bill of goods about college is right up his alley
Yesterday I ran across the following: Congress is like a couple of drunks arguing about the bar bill on the Titanic. You'd never know we all live in the same country.
We are self indulgent and obsessed with our own feelings & suffering & feeling bad for ourselves.
“I will use my rich deep voice to broadcast your position” - BB; You find a way to insert an awesome one liner in every episode!
Really enjoyed this one. I'd never heard of Jenny Holland before and we're practically neighbours. Thanks!
politically homeless feels pretty accurate to me.
Pretty easy choice when you read Project 2025
Great interview Benjamin! I love this woman's attitude. Going to her substack now.
I loved this talk. Jenny has a way of putting into words what I’ve been trying to formulate about what is happening. As a fellow Gen Xer I agreed with most of what she said, except the whole Ireland thing because I’ve never been there!
Yeh if you had to work a hard job with real consequences….getting paid shit ….. unable to pay the bills … you wouldn’t be able to hack it either….. these people have absolutely no idea … it’s horrifying
Second time watching this! Just a great conversation for listening from a fellow Gen x no labels label lady.
This convo was great, I'd like to hear Jenny Holland on a podcast more often.
Self control and self restraint are seen as barriers to be broken.
Fantastic conversation, I relate so much to Jenny Holland. Checking out her substack. Thank you!
Spectacularly insightful.
What a nice surprise.
oh, we will just have to see about that... won't we? 😾
@@NinjaKittyBonks 😢You want me to lie?
[kitty throws tantrum]
@@NinjaKittyBonks (suppresses laughter)
@@helenablavatsky9136 .. grumble... grumble... grumble .... 😾
.
[kitty scurries off to secret underground bunker to plan retaliation programming to be carried out by the clones 😼]
These pod casts lately where topics of discussion are fairly random have been amazing. Within a short span of time I've sat straight up with omg that's me or oh I finally get me now. Life long questions answered. I would spend an hour or so connecting dots. The belief of God. The first time I got quiet about this was when a Muslim from the ME asked about my belief and all I could think was that it none of your business. Same thing later when some random person while walking our dogs asked if I was vaccinated. Anyway big gigantic thank you.
Always enjoy hearing from Jenny Holland.
Double standards good? The justice lady wears a blindfold.
Boomer here who loved this calmversation
1:00:09 we are equally oppressed in different ways. Well said.
1:37:42 You either beat the weaklings or the weaklings beat the most competent into submission.
Having entitled boomer parents who pretended to give us gen Xers a magical childhood, really just gave us a lifetime of being lied to.
\turning 50 in August
What did they lie to you about?
Boomers bad is getting old.
I wonder why they gave you a "magical childhood." Perhaps because theirs was not.
They didn’t get it all right but compared to today’s parent who puts their baby in full time childcare before they’re a year old (heartbreaking) they did good.
@seraeggobutterworth5247
I'm also GenX and have no idea, and now curious
1:12 - I even hate the shirts every where saying BE KIND! nowadays…
7:09 the noticer thought she needed permission (or a special status), and found someone to give it to her.
Had an experience with what I take as the core of Prufrok "Would it have been worthwhile if one setting by a window or throwing off a shawl should turn to the window and say that is not it at all that is not what I meant at all." That's the point he was meandering around.
I believe I hallucinated my father explaining it: for a reader or listener to appreciate you, they have to be able to point and say 'that's what I mean.' It had to come from him because I didn't have that permission to notice it --- and now it seems unusual to notice it or at least to be able to say it. It's not as flattering as how we think we think or appreciate, and, in Prufrock-context, it attributes it to women --- as a burden on others. Both are lacunae.
free-wheeling provocateur should be on some merch.
Yeah, I was in New York for a couple yrs early 2010's, that was enough.
NY is my hometown, but I don't live there now.
“mumsy-ness” 💀 def stealing that thanks
” Fake and gay“ 😂😂☘️
I'm old Gen X and I from a young age saw through the monoparty, I never voted R or D in any election and have been Libertarian since my 20s.
So then, politically speaking, on a national level, you have had zero effect on anything. For your whole adult life. Well I hope you're happy with the way things stand in the US.
@@mikedodson4595 to the contrary, my vote has always been a protest vote, a vote for the monoparty is a wasted one, and would not of changed anything either. The MIC and Deep State make the decisions, not the people.
@@mikedodson4595
GenX in a nutshell
The invisible generation
That's... not a good thing.
This was an interesting discussion.
I just qualify as Gen X; and didn't grow up in a religious environment. My moral compass varies greatly from my parents' generation, but despite the differences I have always believed a secular morality is possible.
How this is achieved I have never been able to articulate, but for reasons I'm unable to identify I'm loathe to abandon the belief that it can be accomplished.
Whether David Bazan (of Seattle based Pedro the Lion) would be willing to engage in such a discussion is one thing, but I'd love to hear Benjamin discuss this issue with Bazan, who was raised in a Christian denomination, but came to abandon it, but appears extrememly conscientious. I know musicians aren't generally considered great conversants, but I believe he is an exception.
1:35:19 British person here... I love Americans too for the exact same reason 😊
It's probably worth defining terms early on in some of these conversations. 'Liberalism' is used in such a loose way here as to be if little use. An interesting conversation, nonetheless.
38:17 Better description of the general idea I had, behind my rotating @handles exercise, than I exactly articulated even to myself.
(I was also specifically thinking that one 'side' gets more religious in politics than the other, but the other maybe doesn't get 'religious' enough, or at least doesn't engage with culture enough in a healthy way).
I often say that consent matters, and antinatalism what happens when the argument of consent is taken to the logical conclusion. Nobody ever consented to their own birth.
I like how Dave Chapelle dealt with the problem by having consent contracts. However, I concluded that it would be a short lived solution. Eventually, someone would have an argument that they were conned into signing the consenting contract by some PUA.
I often read about the downsides of drugs. I just ask has anybody ever decided to make the drug life good? How many people actually have their brains eject positive mood chemicals because they did what they were supposed to in life? How many people actually get that by thinking the right thoughts? How many people have broking wiring and can't fix it? I also have to wonder how many happy housewives were there because of speed and barbiturite pills.
Is huffing their own queefs sort of like the South Park episode where smug hybrid car owners huff their own farts?
I like seeing JP taking the "Biblical metaphorical truth" approach in some way. I find it interesting because it takes it much differently than the same old BS than stupid hellfire and brimstone holy men do things. I looked into it because I saw it is trying to get the utilitarian value of religion to more people. I like the utilitarian value of religion, because I argue that stupid people will always breed like rabbits. Good luck getting a few more kids out of the non-Idiocracy.
1:08:33 This is why I hate both the social conservative and the woke. I see the social conservative as hammering every statistical outlier like a square peg into a round hole for muh society. I see woke as the statistical outliers so miserable, that they need to hammer every single normie like a round peg into a square hole for social justice. I don't know if there will ever be a movement that actually figures out a way for the misfits and outcasts to have a place, yet also not invert the hierarchy. This is why I have so many libertarian sympathies. It at leasts sees outliers as being valued to some degree, and it sees the value of the normies.
1:09:30 It's the best way for the masses. However, if the spiteful mutants quit cranking out kids, and the Idiocracy quit squirting out accidental kiddos, it would be awesome. There is no one size fits all, and the misfits must at least be treated as being honest. I often asked "If the Casey Anothonys never bred future victims, who loses?" I joke that the stock market loses.
1:15:05 The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A Fck.
1:17:53 I just asked people how India managed not to cave in on itself with Vishnu and Shiva. I like how at least you see people believing in God for the magic of it. All I saw in prayer was placebo effect and a bunch of people acting like if I did not get the placebo, I was an asshole. The SBC can take a holy book and shove it. Based Camp talks about manufacturing religion because masses just can't believe in the existing ones, but know religion pays of for certain people.
1:25:29 I said that my childhood sucked because I could no more "Believe" the Jeeeeeeesus of the Southern Baptist Convention than to believe that 2+2=5. I wasted 6 years trying. I lost 27 years being paranoid because of hellfire and brimstone sermons. Pascal need to take his Wager and shove it. I argued that certain people are born with the ability to get certain kinds of religion and others are not. Jolly Heretic Dutton made if funny by saying "The spiteful mutant says there is no god."
1:30:09 Antenna is a great way of describing it. I wonder how many people are just born without a God antenna, cannot get a God antenna, and are basically unable to believe because of it. How many people in each religion just go through the motions and getting no connection? How many are fire insurance clients?
1:31:11 I often dealt with the Christpill shills I hated by saying "If socialism bad and capitalism good, go invent something that actually makes life worth living. Have it outsell the Futurama phone booth." Libertarianism may have loads of flaws compared to normie conservatism, but it does have one upside. It says economics are consistent.
1:33:46 When does not doing that thing you want finally result in the nirvana of not wanting it in the first place? It is why I don't much care for "freedom means slavery to desire." I argue that desire itself is the problem.
1:37:42 My proposal to end bullying is to toughen up the bullied until they can kick they bully's ass. They get stronger, they'll get actual psychological closure, and they'll move on. The bully will learn not to be an a hole. The NPC concept of "Just be nice and people will be nice" simply dopes not works, but schools are overrun with NPC scripts written by motivational coaches.
Watch the Dissident Dialogues debate on Post-Liberalism, even though I'm generally a Mary Harrington fan (with some disagreements) you can definitely figure out which side I would take, lol.
(The side with the Libertarian on it).
Bad definition of Liberalism. That's a huge fail. Still, interesting conversation.
I originally thought this channel was an NPR parody.
Lol
1:21:00 Yeah dude, ppl could only shame you into doing/thinking stupid things, if you had like the maturity of a 5 yr old, lol. I guess that's what we're dealing with everywhere, which is discouraging.
EXCEPT, such juvenile, small-minded ppl would not have been allowed into colleges before, or allowed lots of places. So, socioeconomic pressure would have remained, to mature normally.
This is all downstream from the collapse of the meritocracy, and from EVERYONE GETTING ACCEPTED EVERYWHERE.
The thing is, there's a healthy version of shame. It's meant to the serve the same purpose as guilt, generally: keep you from doing dumb things because of how bad you feel about them. Shame is just more socially oriented.
@@amyb.6368 (Psychologists separate those, I need to revisit those definitions again, I remember they were helpful).
So yes of course, I guess it's just a matter of when shame sometimes gets cynically weaponized, used to control the vulnerable, and twisted towards malicious ends.
"I'm only accountable to God"
Is identical with
"I'm only accountable to myself"
You decided who was God.
You decided what God believed and wanted.
It's YOU all the way down.
I'm only a few percent Irish, a few English, and not Gen X, why does this convo so much resemble my own internal dialogues?
Probably because I grew up around lots of English and Irish, and was definitely the writer-type when younger (probably still) plus I try to only consume popular culture from the last generation, before the onset of acute badness.
Wow it suks that careers in journalism, as we know them, basically just ended at some point.
Baahahaaaa 🤣🤣🤣 my spouse and I are book-end gen x and we also love "fake and gay". ❤ I like this lady's take.
Batya's good overall, except lately she pretty much exactly recapitulates populist sentiments, which are definitely important, but missing like 50% of necessary information.
I like Gen X. I'm supposedly a "boomer" but close to X.
Just "practice without belief," and an accompanying form of knowing (dare I say, gnosis? JL's ears are burning) sounds to me like what I am, a Christian Atheist.
I don't go to church, I guess I would, and "practice" under certain social circumstances.
I maybe still think ppl can live life without the rituals, and especially without certain dogmas that come attached, but maybe we still need to cling to the artifact somewhat, for certain reasons.
@@jonmartin3220 That sentiment certainly seems important for retaining community, in many contexts, and if that's all it were, I wouldn't see much potential risk or downside involved.
My usual concern involves both straining credulity with impositional, unsubstantiated metaphysical truth claims, and also retaining overly rigid norms and dogmas, that feed tribalism by promoting narrow idiosyncratic ritualistic practices, lacking utility and splintering from broad, generally adaptive socionormative behavioral customs.
@@jonmartin3220 Well, I guess we also 'tried' fundamentalism/irrationalism/fantasy, and the results were...worse.
@@jonmartin3220 Interesting historical reading, that we have schizophrenic beliefs to thank for modern society, and sanity to thank for mass death.
@@jonmartin3220 Yeah ok thnks you too.
Is it Narcissism to leave a comment? If I criticize your position then it's because I, a "woman on the internet" mistakenly think I am important enough to matter? OK Benjamin. If you say so.
Doesn't that basically negate the entire internet and expand the word "Narcissism" into non-existence? Keep inventing justifications for ignoring and dismissing women.
Gorgeous daisies in the first seconds!!
She brought up the stake! I like her.
"Small l" libertarianism and consequentialism set up the necessary roadblocks, "small c" conservatism and virtue ethics drive the car (TM).
Boyce does not like women but he is being egged on by the guest.
I have hundreds of hours of interviews with women. Your statement is incoherent.
bit.ly/WomenInterviews
Huh, so the power structure just gets moved behind closed doors, hah. I dunno, we have an elected president, etc.
So if you're talking abt cultural power ONLY, then sure yes, local leaders of groups, faith communities, or popular culture, can influence the larger culture as much as they can/want.
The culture in turn, can influence governance/policy, but not completely or all at once, in a country where things actually work.
(Corruption and cronyism are a different story, we have them now, but they are by no means built into the system).
Yarvin rejects the concept of the separation of powers, believes only in the total State, and 'worships at the altar' of efficiently executing-control-function, but that's only one theory of power (which also seems pretty autistically incorrect imo, lol, burn).
Benjamin was definitely bitten by a Yarvin, once during a full moon.
Sovereignty is conserved, no matter how much we try to divide it. That’s the insight.
@@NorthernObserver Tbh, what is that even supposed to mean? Sry, but I like poetry too (it's just a different thing).
Fiftieth
👀👍
Exactly. The working class is me. Your next. You better know how to get fukin humble with existence. Better wrestle with standards of livings. Ya better. Cuz you either jealous. Debt. Or spiritually within yourself come to terms with standards of living.
I wonder how they will cope. I think the lack of overseas travel is something they won't cope with.