Is A 3 Cylinder Kubota Diesel Engine Worth Fixing?
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- Опубліковано 29 кві 2023
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Today we're working on a tiny little Kubota D902 indirect injection three cylinder diesel that a customer brought us after a catastrophic failure involving overheating and consequential dropping of a valve seat.
The challenge we are faced with is two-fold:
1. Can the engine even be repaired, or is the damage too extensive?
2. If the engine can be repaired, will the repair be cost effective when compared with a new replacement?
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Good evening
Hey the cook show up this video 😂!!!!
I ordered one, its been a good knife so far.
@@ashleywynn4923 would you buy these knives if I was selling them? 🤪
I bought a 350 that was supposed to be built up but someone borrowed the camshaft. What is a reasonable way to choose one? I'll tell you my luck with. 350 chevy has been terrible cause I had the guy i bought the engine from put together my 30 over moto and don't have power to get out of its way.
I'm the service manager at a Kubota dealership and in my experience the cost to repair almost always exceeds the cost to replace IF you can even adequately repair the block and head. The engines aren't cheap but they come complete. Turbo, dpf, accessories, starter.... Yank the old one out, drop the new one in and you have a completely new engine and much less labor.
Since this is a prechamber engine, this might predate DPF and electronics. Many people like rebuilding those to avoid the complexity of electronics and DPFs. I think about the guys who spend a fortune on a Dodge 12V CTD Ram.
That’s a feature of your shop rate, not a bug.
Planned obsolescence. The same is true in most industries. There may be an occasional instance when repairs are possible, but over time you find that it is often cheaper to replace rather then the labor cost of trying to source parts and cover the labor. Great video!
@@jimknowlton342 the shop rate is a "feature" of the economy and in line or LESS than some other competition. Trust me when I say I couldn't rebuild a Kubota engine for less than I can to replace it. So much so, in fact, that I have NO tools in this shop to rebuild diesel engines. They would never get used because it's never cheaper to rebuild THESE engines. When I worked at a different color manufacturer with far more serviceable engines for far less money, we rebuilt them.
@@skylinefever I don't disagree. I recently had a pre emissions track loader in the shop and tried real hard to convince the customer to just get a new engine that was still available rather than trade it for a new emissions machine. Because the machine itself was in AMAZING condition and just had a TON of hours on the engine. That pre emissions engine was very reasonably priced because it doesn't have the price of emissions built into it like replacement engine for current models.
It's almost a lost art seeing what you guys do and how far your Dad has taken you in learning this trade, KUDOS!!!😊😊😊
You're dad is absolutely right. It was a great learning experience, and it was fun to watch the process.
Cleaning guy…
LMAO
Funny, my Kubota dealer warned me to NEVER let the engine OVERHEAT!! Several times. Now I see why. Thanks guys!!
...... lmao.. what a joke... going to block this crap !!! overheat was more the result of bad rads that were known to leak due to vibration (no pressure). This is a f*%ken joke !!! I suppose you havent read the service report from Kobota.. dating back to 2009.... service bulletin for those that actually have certification and a seal and get that information. Stop using You Tube.... ask someone that has experience, not these twat muffins'.
Those engines come in a lot of the equipment we rent at the shop I work for. That was a $5000 replacement engine pre-covid. I have repaired 3 in my time at the rental shop, always from being tipped over and then forced to start without draining the cylinder. We have availability through Kubota even though we are not a dealer. I could probably get you parts if you need help in the future.
I also work at a rental company. We have about 100 of these engines. Most have over 10,000 hours now. Very few major failures. We just got a quote on a D1005 for our application and it was $5500
Yes, more equipment needs tip over tool like trench roller‘s have
I just paid $6,800 for a remanded D902, they’re just as much for a remanded as it is a new one. Problem is, new ones aren’t available for 3-4 months.
@@2strokepipes471 any of those 100 for sale?
I've been in automotive and machine shop work for over 40yrs. You guys are the cream of the crop to level machine shop pros with matching equipment.
At minimum you gave them a good start on rebuilding that engine.
Certainly is rare to find any shop that will take on a challenging job requiring a fair amount of skill and resources only to find it is ultimately unrepairable, and then simply consider it an opportunity to gain experience!
Especially since you're already well seasoned, and have lots of quality equipment. Usually, this scenario starts with repair people taking on a job they are unqualified to do, and then charging customers obscenely for their unfinished/damaged results.
Way to go guys, it's great to see there's still skilled & honest shops out there!
Gaining experience, and not at a customer’s expense, is good. When I need skilled labor I want to pay for their experience, not their education.
Fair prices for a fair amount of work. Gotta love our small businesses with a conscience. Thanks guys and Mom. 😊
Great video! We have small kubota with the same engine.Spent about $1500 for oem parts and machine work due to a faulty air filter.Had to sleeve the center cylinder . The second time cost $1200 for 3 sleeves and minimum parts due to another faulty air. The foam seals on the ends deteriorated within a short time and allowed dirt to wipe the cylinder walls. We changed the entire air filter assembly to a radial seal type with inner and outer filter.Problem solved. Sorry to be long winded but I had flashbacks watching the video.😁 I always enjoy the videos ! Keep up the good work.
Bummer that it’s a throw away engine. You did great job on the cleaning and diagnosis.
Another great episode of fantastic content! Knowing you were going to loose money going in but still be willing to try and contrasting that with knowledge and experience gained shows just how reputable y'all are!!! Keep up the good work!!! And videos!!!
I have a D902 in my Chinese mini-ex and decided early on to add oil press, water temp, low oil press, high water temp and tach instrumentation to monitor what the engine is doing.
Your father is a wise man. Your lucky too have him as a resource and that he lets you try things and learn. Thanks for showing us your journey
Maybe a throwaway, but Kubota makes great long living engines and products.
The Kubota's are built with a throw away mentality.
Planned obsolescence is at the heart of our Industry.
The problem with putting a sleeve in the core is so thin not much room.
Now the block has been honed the press fit will cause the adjacent cylinders to be out of round.
You can check your rod for bend and twist in the mill with a .0000 indicator to check for parallelism and perpendicularity.
You can straighten if needed.
That cylinder may run in a pinch.
I know I do not like to do things sometimes, I let the customer make the call.
Good idea having the customer get their own parts.
I feel for what you guys go through.
I know, believe me.
Nice job fixing the head Nicholas.
Thanks for sharing..
Take care, Ed.
Thanks for watching and sharing! It's an interesting industry these days.
Great content. Brings me back to my late teens and early 20’s when I worked in a local machine shop. The local municipality would bring these little engines in with a pile of Kubota parts. They had damage just like your video shows. They left our shop ready to go another 3000hrs! 👍 keep up the great work!
Just for future reference, that is a very rebuilable engine if you have good connections for parts. Country sales & service from Orville, OH has a good selection of OEM kubota std and oversized parts in stock. They are very knowledgeable and helpful on issues you may have.
Had the exact same thing happen with that exact kubota engine. I ran the numbers myself and it would have indeed been cheaper to go aftermarket, but I couldn't trust the quality. Great video guys.
On the other hand, I see you do more precise work than most machine shops. Based on that, I think the finished engine would probably be better than new. I've been rebuilding engines since the 1960s. Mostly diesel and racing engines.
I'm a truck driver, I visit a large repair shop that fixes a lot of heavy duty landscaping equipment. My usual work there is taking away old 3 cylinder diesel Kubota engine cores and/ or bringing them new or rebuilt Kubota engines. There is quite a large thriving Kubota community out here
That middle cylinder was such a disappointment. You were so close to saving this motor. Of course it still can be saved if the owner decides to spend the money. Either way, it was a valiant effort.
Had a kubota powered Case IH lawn mower from the 80’s that was tired and the guy that bought it off us ran a machine shop at a truck shop and was able to source all his parts through Thermo King since they run Kubota engines.
It's interesting, I went through a Kubota D600B years ago, and it was the opposite of what you are finding. OE parts were easy to find and not overly unreasonable. It was a dry-sleeve engine (I didn't need sleeves), so it was meant to be rebuilt. It was also one of the easiest engines I have ever worked on. Very logical; no fancy specialized tools were needed, came apart, and went back together really easily. It was also a very stout little engine. I have two other Kubota products that I hope are built like that little D600B; now I'm wondering...
Late but I see these on FB marketplace occasionally for $400-800. Was wondering about that. Maybe I’ll splurge and see if I get lucky.
Ive worked as a mechanic and a manual machinist. I have to say i love your videos!!!!
you should always rotate the magnetic yoke 90 degree's to check in the other direction if you dont already and check it over a second time. allowing the magnetic flux to show any possible cracks in other directions.
We do. What's shown in a video is often only a fraction of the entire process we go through.
Sunday JAMSI videos are the best!
Love seeing these videos. So satisfying to watch. Sucks for the customer, but you guys did what you could for them.
Another great video from JAMSI. I am thankful that you not only show the processes your shop goes through when inspecting and machining an engine, but explain exactly what you are doing and why and adding your general thoughts throughout. Makes me think that I could do the same work you do, but I know I could not and will leave my machine work to the pros such as your shop.
'Its a good experience' - wise words! You may not have turned a profit, but at least you learnt something!
At least you got content from this engine.
Me personally, I'd take a chance on the repair vs a $5 engine, if you could even get one.
I'd have him finish the head, touch up that center hole a little more, even if it was on the high side. Find a used piston and rod, new rings, brngs and gaskets. If i was all in parts and machine labor for around $1000-$1500 plus reassembly myself. I'd shake hands saying no guarantee, i understand, and thank you for trying Jamsi !
As A job shop manual Machinist I enjoy y’all’s content great job 👍👍
Thank you!
The issue with 400$ jobber head is you need to go thru all the machine work again...valve job...surface....etc
You tell him Momma!!!! Make your own damn lunch!!!!! LOL
Throw a little JB Weld on that side of the cylinder and call it a day 😂
At my shop (transmission shop), we do 99.9% late model stuff, recently we got suckered into working on an OLD Ford truck with a C6, the customer kept assuring us it would be EASYYYY because it was so old (customer was clueless of course) just like your customer thought it would be so easy since it's small. We should've walked away. Luckily, it didn't need a ton of hard parts, but even the simple standard stuff took 2-3 days to show up from 3 different places. I just nod and add money to the invoice.
It's hard to really kill a C6, but time marches on and situations change.
You can't just walk into the local NAPA and get kits, hard parts and an assortment of converters off the shelf for something that's 35 years old.
I completely understand your position.
@@jimurrata6785 the seals inside were older than me, and I'm 36. LOL. You're right though, a 143HP V8 really wasn't putting a hurting to it, it was just time for a refresh.
@@cameron878 I daily an F-250 that's older than you! 😆
It's going into the shop tomorrow morning for a new clutch after 15 years. Not because it slips but because the starter has chewed off a bunch of teeth from the ring gear.
A new Luk flywheel is cheaper than having the machine shop blanchard grind the one in there, and there's no point going that deep and _not_ replacing the friction, pressure plate, pilot and throwout.
@@cameron878 whats up bro ! I see you have good taste in channels as well ! 👍
I love this channel, the care they put into all of their services really shows that they love the craft and the customer!
very true on them throw away engines... crank might even be a little bent too.. Just not worth the time, money, and aggravation sometimes
its great to see all the steps that go into a rebuild
It is so entertaining and satisfying to watch a master craftsman at work, keep up the great videos
I'm really enjoying your channel.
(algorithm bump) 😀
I love to watch your videos on fixing engines, there is so much i didn't know, the detail isbrilliant. Thank you
That's very fair. You tried but don't expect the customer to pay for your learning curve. Well done
I didn't realize the kabota was a prechamber IDI engine. never had one apart before. neat, that prechamber design is used on the GM 6.2 and 6.5 family. Looks like it's a good time for a sleeve on that center cylinder
Kubota made many different diesels, some were prechamber, some were direct injection.
Pre-chamber=junk Direct injection more efficient
Maxiforce or even sometimes Reliance parts will fix you up with the common kubota rebuild kits. As far as sleeves you always have melling or LA Sleeve. Kubota sometimes uses weird oversizes
With their bearings and puston oversizes so its a must to check availibility before you cut or grind something
I see alot of kubota oversizes in .2 and .4 mm which is close to .008" and .016"
None of them have anything for this engine lol
Knives look sick!
@@daltonh9898 just trynna be supportive. Love the channel.
When the shop says "this is a bad idea", it's a bad idea.
As always, loving it. Have zero experience with machining but I enjoy watching you guys.
Well this makes my 3cyl 643 bobcat skidsteer decision easier. I have blowby and I as considering a rebuild but after seeing this video I think a replacement is a better choice.
Now you can tell the customer exactly what needs done without guessing, and the choice is theirs!
Great job, quite interesting proving exactly what happened because they overheated it.
Really enjoy the explanation, the craftsmanship, the ETHICS ... All really great to see!
These are such a sturdy engine. Interesting cooling system as well. Ours doesn't have a pump it relies on convection. As such you do have to make sure to keep the radiator clean so it's working correctly.
" Interesting cooling system as well." Apparently a bit too interresting, considering it overheated. 😅
Precombustion chamber inserts should be proud of the head by 0.001" +- 0.0005". Especially if part of the chamber is outside of the head gasket.
I REALLY enjoy your videos! I learn something new with every one, thank you for your efforts and I look forward to each and every one! Keep up the great work! I know you don't like being watched over your shoulder, but I would love to just watch in your shop.. I have learned alot from you guys!
Deck rust kills most mowers when the engine is still just about perfect. There must be hundreds going secondhand.
These D902 engines are good engines and are put in everything and parts are easiest to find at a local Kubota dealer and you know you are getting genuine Kubota parts . Unfortunately, a block costs about 2200.00 and a head costs 12 to a bit over 1300.00. add either to the cost of what is already done, gaskets, etc. or needs to be done and you are up there with the new engine cost. So in this case this engine is not really worth fixing.
That motor probably puts out 30hp max. I reckon if you reassembled the short block with that mark in the bore it would run another 4000 hours even with the bent rod. It's not a high revving engine.
agreed.
It’s 19 hp at 3600 I believe
I was thinking the same. Did a gas 4 cylinder for a Suzuki Firenza. Timing belt prematurely broke at 2 years in. Pulled the head. Valve job done. Found out it was using oil and oil pressure would drop to almost nothing at idle. New bearings, and rings. Running well. Not using oil, and pressure is good.
That is complete bullshit. Small engine or not the rings are not going to seal in that spot. You'd never do some mickey mouse shit like that on a customers engine.
@@Jeremy-iv9bc I just like your mickey mouse comment, f-the customers engine just send it lol jk . if theyre paying it has to be perfect.
Messicks is an awesome source for kubota parts. I use them regularly for my kubotas. Love the videos, keep up the good work!
That would definitely be a job for me. It's so sad that only so few work clean and precise as you do.
The precision of your engineering and machining, delightfully, is matched by the clarity of your narration and video editing. Thank you for the high quality content showcasing high quality work.
Kubota engine parts may not be available through your wholesale suppliers but any Kubota dealer can get all the parts you need. I have rebuilt several 3 cylinder Kubota engines with factory parts and Chinese kits.
Profesional worker +Profesional tool= job 100% done
Another excellent video, great work.
The thing I’m curious about is how much better a fantastic machine shop like y’all could make a new one.
Love diy and machine shops. Thanks for no funny business and staying consistent
Excellent workmanship
Thanks for the video. That head suffered a lot of "Malice in the Combustion Palace!"
Always entertaining and informational. Thank you for grey content
Love you’re channel . Thanks for the videos .
Make it a two piston engine…
Are you mentally challenged?
One of my new favorite channels.
Fascinating video with great editing.
I really enjoyed this video, keep up the great work 👍
It makes me wonder if there was not so much catastrophic damage, would it be more viable to machine and rebuild. I worked for John deere for a time and saw many yanmar 3 cylinder diesels that overheated and warped and cracked the head. We always got a new head and used permatex Cooper on the head gasket. Never had problems after the repair as long as the customer did not overheat it again. They are such small engines and all it takes one time of over heating and the head is warped and or cracked. Good video, you guys are awesome.
Great videos keep up the good team work
You guys are the real deal .enjoy your professionalism .no might work in the machine shop business
Fixing the engine would make great UA-cam content.
I love how clear you both point out the issues with this engine, would be nice to hear the next part with this: What customer wants to do with it? And if customer decides to get those parts and keep you guys working on this, would be cool to see that as well 😎
It feels like there should be a pt. 2 to this. The video cut just as your father had something to add on. Overall, this was a good video. 👍
I'm so glad I bought a new BELARUS 250 air cooled diesel 30yrs ago. In my opinion, one of the best diesel engines ever , little diesels like that Kubota, I'd replace with HF V-twin gas with bell housing adapter and new crank flange to match. A job for a true pioneer, parts changers shouldn't attempt. At leats owner can sell the head and maybe the "sleeved" block. Alittle disappointed in the outcome. Nice machine work though💡
Great videos. Seems like in diesel world on cylinder head flatness length warpage is no longer as critical as side to side with no depression allowed in "fire ring" area of HG. I have to agree with the extremely experienced and knowledgeable parts cleaner, this is a learning experience that requires you to cut your losses and could get into a time and money pit finding replacement parts.
Years ago when I rebuilt my 6.9 my machinist told me he couldn't resurface the heads with a cutter because the pre chambers were harder and the cutter would jump over them and not cut well. Instead he used a sander.
That sucks. This is why some people just order reman heads online from someone who owns the right machine for diesel prechambers.
I hope you mean surface grinder 🦉
@@tcmits3699 Nope, sander. Turned out good.
That would be funny if sanding gives a better sealing surface. Take care
Just recently over the time of just a few videos the percentage of viewers still not subscribed has gone from 70% to 80%. It sucks that people can't be bothered to help the channel, subscribing has no downside to the viewer but really helps the channel out!
Another excellent presentation, well done chaps
Where's the 20% crew at? The level of explanation of the process is one of my favorite aspects of this channel.
As a machinist I find your process of accurately machining very interesting, a lot is the same but your machines are so different to the ones I use .
Awesome video with excellent content. Greetings from Perth Australia.
Very entertaining and informative! Ty for posting
Just wanted to say thanks for sharing this wonderful video with us.
Love to watch the process!
it's for a lawnmower. I say go with it and fix the bend in the rod and use the block as is.
I enjoyed seeing your reasoning. Good job.
Phenomenal work!
Unfortunately, nowadays the line between fixing and replacing is getting pretty fine. I would feel better having a shop like yours fix it and knowing exactly what I have than ordering a replacement from who knows where and how well it was assembled. I guess I'm old school and feel better about having pros like you doing it right. Love your content.
Keep up the great work. And thanks for giving your cook a break 😂
These are great little engines. A lot of smaller generators and construction equipment here in the uk run these engines. I reguarly service these in generators with upwards of 30,000hrs. There prone to crack where the injector nozzle comes through the bottom of the head. Any bottom end catastrophic failure on these we rarely repair, ive fitted oversized pistons in past which kubota supply in 2 sizes but as we can normally pick up a new engine for around the same price as parts and labour we usually just engine swap. Great video 👍
Another very entertaining exercise, well done. Anyone who gets engine machining work done should see this video to understand where the cost lies in these projects.
I work on those Kubota heads and blocks all the time. Also I find the metal used in a Kubota is weird.
Thanks for great content, keep it up
Enjoying the show keep it up.