How to Write Orchestral Music in Ableton Live
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- Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
- Download it now. thinkspace.ac.uk/signup/ablet...
FREE Ableton Live BBC Discover Template, including groups and stems PLUS Guy's demo from the video.
Ableton Live 11 is best known in pop and dance music circles, but how does it shape up with orchestral composition? As film composer Guy Michelmore finds out, surprisingly well! This video shows you how to make orchestral music in Ableton Live 11, using Spitfire Audio's free orchestral library, BBC SO Discover. In this video he builds an Ableton Live 11 orchestral template from scratch including stems, and then writes a short orchestral piece in real time so you can see the complete workflow from start to finish. So if you've ever wondered how to write orchestral music in Ableton live, now's the time to find out.
Resources:
Ableton Live Free Trial: www.ableton.com/en/trial/
Spitfire Audio BBC SO (Free) Discover: www.spitfireaudio.com/bbc-sym...
Decent Sampler (Free): www.decentsamples.com/product...
Piano Book (Free): www.pianobook.co.uk/
0:00 Intro
2:10 Building a template in Ableton Live
7:25 Writing orchestral music in Ableton Live
13:00 The harp glissando trick
14:00 The bounce to audio workaround
17:55 adding the brass section
21:55 Building an emotional climax
28:15 Bouncing stems
![5 BIG Mistakes people make writing music ......[and how to FIX them!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ul_XQWaWrVM/mqdefault.jpg)
Download it now. thinkspace.ac.uk/signup/ableton-orchestral-template
FREE Ableton Live BBC Discover Template, including groups and stems PLUS Guy's demo from the video.
@Guy can't open template... did you zip right files ?
Hi Guy! I downloaded the template but all it had was a file labelled "Live 11 BBC Discover Template.alp", there was no Ableton session template
I have the same issue here -- can't open the file.
Same problem too - the file won't open, when I unzip & click on the file I just get a window with code in it?
The file contains only code, there is no template in this link
It is possible to bounce to audio in Ableton, there are actually two ways to do that, either you freeze then flatten the track and it will be audio, or you freeze the track and drag the frozen clip to an audio track and voila you have a bounced audio track ;)
If you go with the first route you duplicate your midi than freeze and flatten duplicated track to retain your instrument track.
Shortcut for turning off the pencil is "B" key on the keyboard.
YESSS FINALLY A VIDEO WITH ABLETON!!!!
Shortcuts you should use:
Command + Option + E = Full screen piano roll
W = Zoom width of selection or part
H = Zoom height of selection or part
Piano Roll quantize and grid settings
⌘ (ctrl) + 1 - narrows the grid
⌘ (ctrl) + 2 - widens the grid
⌘ (ctrl) + 3 - enables triplets
⌘ (ctrl) + 4 - turns off the grid
been an ableton user for years and i always teach ppl hotkeys as they are big time the best workflow advice but I've never known about full screen piano roll hotkey, thank you
@@andko123You’re welcome.
Mr Michelmore, your videos have taught me so much. It is my wish to someday meet you and get a photo clicked with you, possibly chill with you at your local pub. I'm from India, so I don't know when or how it will happen, but much respect to you. You are as skilled as they come.
Ableton user here for over a decade. Freeze .... (dont flatten) Click alt and drag froze track onto audio track - immediate bounce in audio and keep the midi too.
I then hit zero 0 to deactivate my frozen midi (now its for edits if I need later and saves cpu)
as quick as bounce in place tbh
Press B to toggle off pen tool in piano roll to get rid of your wee renegade notes :)
Wise person...... I wish I could crease a script to do all that in one go. I have a streamdeck and for every other daw my most used button. is render!
Thank you for demonstrating how to compose in your style with Ableton. It was probably a good exercise in brain plasticity. I chose to use Ableton 10 years ago when it came with a piece of hardware. Not knowing anything about DAWs, I just bought the full version and really haven't regretted it. I'm just amazed at the power and versatility of all these DAWs.
Hey Guy! Great video as always. I am rather new to all of this and I have invested in Ableton. I am glad to see you show a "how to" video using this DAW. The new Ableton 12 solves the bounce to audio bit and should please many out there who have wanted this included. It also addresses many of its predecessors short comings in midi editing. You are a very inspiring individual and wish I had your energy. This is from a ol hilly Billy from North Carolina mountains who loves music in all its forms and particularly enjoy orchestral hybrid. Thank you for you hard work producing these helpful videos.
AWESOME content as always Mr. Michelmore! Whishing I'll be able to be able to jump into thinkspace some day! Thanks for taking the time for sharing your amazing expertise!
Yay!! Never thought I'd see the day. More Guy + Ableton please!
Entertaining, informative and humorous as ever, Guy. Thanks for brightening my morning! 😬🙏 I’m very much looking forward to you applying your skills to Studio One v6 DAW. I’ve been dabbling with it since v2 and thought it looked promising. Now with v6.5 it’s seriously come of age and I’d love to see you take a deep dive in.
That was AWESOME to watch.
Glad to see you experimenting in AL!!! Hope to see more in this world!!! I’m learning AL a lil bit!!!
Guy, the first DAW I ever learned to use is Ableton Live. I am so happy to see you using it!
Hi Guy, Great vid as usual. Just a quick tip which I think will help you while recording midi in Abelton, Press the + button at the top after the record button and it will not over record when it loops.
My first time watching oneof your videos. Recommended from a friend. Love how you did this with a sense of fun! I've been working in Spitfire's BBC Orchestra for a while now. Found some good tips here so thank you!
This video is like a Xmas present to me ! waiting for ages for a similar video !!!!
Hi Guy, entertaining video as always. I haven’t seen anyone else mention this, but when you recorded the MIDI around the loop you were not overwriting the previous MIDI (as you did discover) but were actually creating a new take, which would have shown up in a new take lane if you had the take lanes visible for the track. MIDI takes and comping in Ableton is really quite flexible and well worth investigating for people who are playing in MIDI performances live (although it has more uses than just that).
omg!!! thank you so much!! that's completely amazing 🤩
Thanks for explaining Stems and stereo stuff !!
Love the channeling, just was wondering yesterday… bout kinda some classics tunes, Sir 🌠❤🫶🏼
You are amazing!! your energy make it so cool to be part of your journey! thanks for inspiration for new artist
not many good tutorials for orchestral production in Ableton but this is one of the best I'v seen. I have my own convoluted system with this kind of production but I think I am going to try your template. I only recently installed the free content from spitfire audio and open it in NI komplete. Been inspired recently listening to alot of game sound design and scoring.
What a treat to find you working with Ableton Live 11. I avoided Ableton for years, not really sure why. The first time I used it I was hooked. Years later I still only know a small percentage of everything that this DAW is capable off! Thank you for another great video Guy!
I worked 20 years in Logic, tried out Ableton 2 years ago and I am now fully on Ableton. Just the workflow is more intuitive, the routing for midi and audio is a gem and the warping funtion for audio stretching and changing the tuning is masterful.
@@Kris_jellybeard Agreed 100%. Hoping that as more film composers like Guy begin to showcase Ableton, the company begins to incorporate more filmscoring tools like a dedicated SMPTE code app or more dedicated video scoring tools.
Wowzer Thanks for taking the time Guy such a time saving template...great sounds in linked Spitfire pack excl woodwinds which I swapped out for Spitfire Studio Woodwinds..oboe and bassoon were a bit naff. Really helpful thanks and equally edutaining as always 😊
Happy Christmas to you Guy.
And a very happy christmas to you to Anna
THANK YOU!! I have had an Ableton license for a while, and I use it all the time for live synth playing. But I normally compose in Pro Tools, and the timeline view was so opaque to me in Live that I just put it away in disgust every time I get started. This video of yours may get me over the hump--which would be great, because I quite like the synthesis in Ableton, and my scoring style tends to be hybrid. Much appreciation to you, Guy.
Thanks Guy, this is perfect for me!
Just what I was looking for!
This video made me feel much less bad about my failure to get to grips with Ableton and more generally failing to make time for music.
I never liked machines imitating conventional instruments but I have come to accept, as always, that it's what everybody else wants, so just let it go. I cannot deny that in its rush to provide perfect limitations of instruments and ensembles, the musical instrument manufacturers have brought me the mechanism to make an inexhaustible palette of sound.
More relevant for me personally in this clip is that these ideas about arrangement are universal (don't bring everything in at the beginning, simple harmonic variation etc.) and therefore of direct use to me. Thank you.
Thank you Guy, such a great help!
youre welcome
Great video thanks Guy :)
Guy surprises us all disses Cubase for the love of Live and Logic!
I've always dabbled with both doing orchestral covers of songs and Ableton but neither of them enough from start to finish so this was a great little tutorial for me. This year is the year to actually finish a project in it XD
Also I loved the chemistry between both intructors, very entertaining
your fun to watch. thanks
I love watching Guy talking with Guy.. ps would love to see you make orchestral music in 8 tracks especially useful for Ableton Lite users who have an 8 track limitation..
I score to picture in Ableton Live! (Mainly childrens tv). Great to see you having a go. I do a similar thing with 'the harp trick' except i just drag the midi notes up/down to the correct place from C.
I picked up a some useful tips watching, thanks Guy.
The only problem is the lack of timecode and it cant export broadcast WAVs which is pretty much the fim and TV standard delivery spec
@@ThinkSpaceEducation Yes and I'd be surprised if those kind of features were incorporated based on how the vast majority use Ableton. (there is a timecode ruler at the least!)
@@ThinkSpaceEducation I'm no expert but their website says syncing can be done through SMPTE. LTC and MTC.
I always learn something, no matter which DAW is used. I must say that Ableton looks a very capable one.
Hi Guy, Great to see you using Live 11 and as others have said, would love to see more. Another way to turn midi to audio is right click the clip select Freeze track then flatten and taa daa the midi has been turned into audio. Hope that helps. Rgds Gary
aaah I was about to give the same tips glad you did 😋
Don't need to flatten, when you freeze it only, you can drag the frozen track to an audio track and voila!
@@Kris_jellybeard Ah ok, thanks for that!
I'm very impressed if you picked up Ableton in a week. Well done! 🎉 Would you recommend reverb groups per family or per stage location, e.g. instruments in the back row get more reverb than those nearest the audience?
Thanks Guy. You know I worked on Ableton from 2010 to 2013, until I got Logic. Although I don’t use now, I do have a free copy I got from Focusrite. I just love the mixing interface of Live. It’s the best of anything I’ve ever seen. In fact the 2nd composition I’ve done, well, after buying my 1st laptop, using Live. It was a pleasure to watch this one & how nice to notice how well they developed their foundational aspects of the DAW, FWIW. I think I do have the track somewhere around on my old external hard drive.
Btw, this is funny but have you ever noticed(this is the 2nd time I am seeing this)that if the viewer doesn’t look directly at the Mercedes icon or is it Yamaha icon on your back glass door, looks like the demon’s face from The Exorcist? You know the scene where Ellen Burstyn comes home, opens the door, comes in & finds out the lights flashing on & off & you see the demon’s face in between.
Very nice to see this video. Also, when I saw Live showing the cpu usage of 6% and fluctuating to 20% at times, I thought may be is it possible for you to do a video on Ram usage and how effectively can it be optimized etc…
Vivasswan SriHarsha
Guy você é muito legal! Adoro seus vídeos!
thank you!
Thank you! More DAW specific videos like this, please!
OK!
@@ThinkSpaceEducation oh nice!! happy Ableton user here 🤩🥰
Hey Guy, it's ace to see you using my DAW, thank you so much :)
Its really interesting
Once you get used to it, there a several ways to get the results you were after. Learning the shortcuts, will increase your workflow. Thanks so much for your hard work on this channel, it is very much appreciated.@@ThinkSpaceEducation
When in Ableton, just set up an Audio track and choose its input as RESAMPLE, it will auto record from the master channel (Dirty Bounce).
Yes!
I was hoping to see Ableton Suite's orchestral library used >_> I think I'll try and mix them with BBC and see how it goes :D
Thanks for sharing! I opened and saved this in Bitwig :) Which means I can also convert it to Studio One via the .dawproject format >_>
I wrote orchestral music in Reaper :)
Hey Guy! Thanks for this! Here’s a tip for you. The “freeze” function in Ableton is the “bounce” feature. There’s no shortcut for it, but if you right click the track you want to bounce to audio, then select freeze track and then repeat that step and select “flatten” then your midi track will become audio.
That being said the midi track will no longer be there so the way you set it up will keep the midi and have the audio so well done.
Thats the way one of my students suggested. I honestly think recording into a dedicated bounce track is quicker but Ill give it another go.
Yeah depending on work flow either way works great. Gotta say, you have been a huge inspiration for me in writing orchestral music. I’m saving up to do the think space course on Video Game music because that’s one of my passions. So thank you for what you do! Would love it, if you had some time, if you could listen to a couple of the videos I’ve done on my channel and comment what you thought. Your input would be amazing.
Thanks again
Also worth mentioning - a combined 'freeze and flatten' function is being added in Live 12, which is a bit more like the bounce function other DAWs have :)
@@17cupsofcoffee that’s sweet. That’ll be super useful
Thats great!@@17cupsofcoffee
Hi Guy, thanks for your awesome video. I downloaded the template, but I don't seem to get into my Ableton Live 11. I can not find how to install in into Ableton, and it does nothing by itself I guess.
I did put the template in various folders, but it never shows up in Albeton for me. What went wrong? Please, some advice would be great.
Perfect timing - just finished my move from live to Cubase! 😂
I tried to move from Live to Cubase months ago and am still struggling. The workflow in Ableton was just much faster for me because I was used to it. But I think Ableton doesn't let you control the Expression or Dynamics with CC, so I was forced to switch to Cubase.
Oh, and B for the pencil tool (like "Brush"?), and cmd+alt+E to switch the piano roll fullscreen.
15:33 . I’ve been trying to figure this part out. Turning midi track into audio. Can anyone explain to me how do I get the “stereo” to work like in the video please? Where to find it and so on. Thank you in advance!
Please do more orchestral stuff in Ableton! :))))
We need more ableton videos
Very refreshing to see Ableton used.
I’m genuinely surprised that composers hasn’t tapped into the potential of macros and snapshots that can be dragged and dropped into a template where only Return tracks can be the starting point. I do think that with Live 12’s new features it should be even more straightforward as a DAW that composers could embrace.
Lots of composers use Ableton but the lack of timecode means they/we haveto use another DAW as the main event and Ableton for stemming or whatever. Timecode isnt trivial it runs right at the heart of the daw so I dont expect it to pop up anytime soon
i already saw many "trailer music" "epic music" composers use only Ableton!
@@ThinkSpaceEducation, there are max4live devices that can sort this out, but I have no experience with feature films and I left cubase closing in on two decades ago so I can’t speak to how much easier it is - but workarounds do exist :-)
Also good to hear that there are people actively using it, maybe it could help progress software developments for composers.
I guess there are pros and cons to most DAWs, and I don’t have the experience and expertise to compare - they’ve sure come a long way since buying Cubase in 95 on a floppy disc!
I use to use Emagic Logic Audio when at school, loved it and was so simple... I wish I could start making music again but Ableton/Cubase looks very intimidating and expensive.
100% me 19:48
22:25 - Batman
Would this work for the updated Spitfire Symphony Orchestra?
Honestly, I think Ableton is years behind Cubase for midi. Also, Cubase rules when you need macros and solid workflow enhancements. For me, Ableton is really good for electro musics, and for sketching ideas, for live setup, or small projects. I went from Cubase to Ableton because I needed simplicity. If I was doing cinematic projects I would have stayed with Cubase.
Thank you for the video.
I'm sure there's a way to bounce in place a MIDI track (or many) in Live with a key shortcut without having to solo it and recording it to the master bus. Any major DAWs can do that and I can't imagine you couldn't do that in Ableton too. 😄 But well I don't know Live and I think you're brave to switch from DAWs to anothers, personnaly (after decades from C-Lab Creator>Notator>Emagic Logic>Logic Pro...) I couldn't.
Ableton uses Dirty Bounce, you take an audio channel and change its input to RESAMPLE, it then receives audio straight from the master bus.
Regarding the pencil thing at @20:39; use the 'b' key on the keyboard to toggle write mode on and off.
Thank you! My in house Live guru told me. Its weird being such a newb
@@ThinkSpaceEducation Yeah, I saw that you'd figured it out, but the keyboard is quicker than using the mouse. Thanks for the video. Excellent stuff, as ever,
oh, it would be VERY interesting to see you tackle FL Studio...😊
thank you from an Ableton user.
Im patiently waiting for guy to do fl studio😶🔥
OKOK message received!
I love abletons relative simplicity and intuitiveness.
I have only the Lite version, just 8 tracks. Challenging but not impossible to create something orchestral-ish. But it’s time to get a proper version.
Great video but dident touch on automation. I just bought the BBCSO Core but discovered that all my recorded changes in expression and dynamics gets hidden in the clip in ableton. How can anyone work with that? Do you have any method to get the expression and dynamics changes to record as automations in arrangement view?
I have the same question. I basically purchased Cubase just so I could have access to the expression and dynamics changes with the pen tool, thinking it was impossible in Ableton. But I wonder if it's really impossible, or if I'm just not smart enough to find where to expand that view within Ableton.
cool
Guy I have a question for you, since I have followed you for quite some time, and you always answer my difficulties in the videos. This problem has been killing me for quite some time with Ableton, and I wonder if you might know how to fix it, because I have spent many hours trying to figure it out, but I can't;
In Ableton Live (I use that DAW to compose orchestral music). I cannot figure out how to apply my Midi-Controller's / midi-fader's / dynamics or expression change-recording, together with the actual notes being played on my keyboard. It does picks up the midi-fader-changes (e.g. expression / dynamics in BBCSO), when I record and play it on my piano (I have control over the expression and such, when I record - no issue there), but when the recording is over, it hasn't been applied and locked to the thing that I played and recorded on the keyboard. I am certain that the fader-changes in expression and dynamics has been recorded (since I can see that visually in ableton, in the recorded midi-clip, when I enlarge it), but it's like the recording follows my fader-changes even after the recording.
Do you know, or anybody know, how to fix this, if it even is possible to fix?, because it is really irritating, when you try to create the music in your head, but there is a roadblock in the way.
I'm strugling with the same thing. Ableton seem to record midi changes like modwheel to the clip and hide it away so its impossible to get an overview of anything. I can't figure this out, hopefully someone has an answer..
I bought ableton and I love it. But used cubase since atari 520 st days. So cubase always for me. Want to focus more on the music than the daw
"B" keyboard shortcut for the draw tool 😉
Waiting for the day REAPER gets some attention from Guy
A good advice for you all, is to read the ENTIRE Ableton Live manual and do the in-program tutorials before use. You can do it in 3-5 days. It will pay of immensly and you will get full bang for your bucks. I've always read the manual like that for things I buy, and I will continue to do so.
Great and inspiring content as always! Do you have any videos that show how to underscore dialogue between two characters that are sad and try to lift each other up? I can't seem to find many videos about underscoring to dialogue in certain moods. :)
omg i cant stop looking at the window behind you. the reflection looks like a scream ripoff is standing there and watching you 👻
I love bbc discovery, i had to wait 2 weeks to get a link when i got it :D
I love using violin tremolo as a short. it has a different sound than the spiccato.
Thats a good idea!
Ha! Its actually a sticker on the window to stop birds crashing into it!
@@ThinkSpaceEducation hehe then i know, I thought it was one of those movie reel things :D
Does it support negative offret to compensate for orchestral sounds "lag". Fl Studio does not and it's so frustrating. Please reply. I've searched for the answer since summer. 🙏
Yes it does! There's a little D button in the bottom right hand corner that reveals negative track delay controls
@@ThinkSpaceEducation Thank you for everything you do but especially thanks for giving me a good answer to my question. ☺️
I just found that Bitwig is even better than Ableton, you can create a container with 4 different instruments in it and moving slowly between all of them. how cool is that! For example you can start to play in Sul Tasto and slowly go to Tremolos...everything on one track with super easy workflow.
That is really interesting to know, are there any videos demonstrating this feature on Bitwig at all?
ua-cam.com/video/eI7phiPOMSc/v-deo.html
and
ua-cam.com/video/Bc7KVp2PvEU/v-deo.html
Maybe i will create a full tutorial with voice but for now quick explanation : There is a XY instrument device which works as a container with 4 different slots for VST Plug-Ins (A, B, C, D). I put 4 instances of Hans Zimmer Strings with different articulations preset inside each slot. The A slot is for Flautando, B for Tremolo, C for Sul Pont and D for Col Legno Tratto. Then i can move and transition between this 4 slots with XY pad, and also modulate it with MSEG/Curves to automate movement while i hold a chords. There are a lot of different modulators you can try - randomize it, make that only certain notes start to modulate it, etc etc. The possibilites are endless. Pretty cool, huh? :)@@mrvad-up8cc
wow
B key to switch between cursor and pencil tool ;-)
it makes me want to ask a question (I am still at the very beginning of the video, maybe the answer is inside). I am on my path to become a soundtrack composer one day, and I am using Ableton precisely, because of habit, it's what I use for more than 10 years now. Is it a good idea to let Ableton go for Cubase for example ? is Cubase better for OST composition ? or any DAW whatever, it does the job ?
Ableton Live is no good for film or TV because it doesnt support timecode That means you cant export Broadcast WAV files which is the standard delivyer format. So if you want to work on professional film or TV you need Logic/Cubase. LOTs of composers use Ableton though as well as its really god for sound design etc and then just bounce the stems and import the stems into Cubase
@@ThinkSpaceEducation thank you for the response ! I'm gonna have to buy a cubase licence too I guess 😁
I heard Reaper works as well. Maybe check that first :)
The Template link is broken.
Any plans to do Reaper?
One DAW at a time! Took me a few weeks to get my head around Live
Guy, freeze midi track, select region and just drag it to an audio track below and you got the audio track
Do some Reaper!
thank you from ableton user
EXCELLENT! I challenge you to be able to do it in FL STUDIO (Just like Alex Moukala)
That's on my radar - FL is a bit brutal for people coming from more traditional DAWs - it messes with your head
I understand.
but I know you can do it! and it would be Amazing to see it!@@ThinkSpaceEducation
@@ThinkSpaceEducationYeah, couldn’t even start a basic idea when I tried FL. The “each clip is a pattern” thing was just not good for my workflow and creative approach.
dont quite see why all the routing all over the place then to audio tracks. what benefit?
Mind if i ask why Ableton? (I'm using it for non-orchestral stuff too, just curious)
So many people use Ableton Live I thought I would have a look and its really good!
@@ThinkSpaceEducation It is, but the one pet peeve i have with it: the dreadful track coloring. With Cubase i can define color gradients myself that it will allow me to assign to a hundred tracks easily, in Live you're pretty much stuck with their strange palette. Especially with a LOT of tracks that'll be something annoying.
I havent bumped into that yet @@k-5-1-2
One other mild critique of the template is that Ableton users tend to use VST's instead of AU for their plugins, and don't load the AU stuff by default. Means the template won't load without enabling it. It's a nice and tidy template though, worth relinking the VST's I think. Thanks Guy.
Bouncing to audio in Ableton is quite easy.. just create a new audio track. Right click on the lane you want to bounce to audio, click freeze, and ctrl + drag to the new audio lane. voila!
There was me thinking you were going to drop a tech house tune 😂
Is that Howard Shore on the 'phone?😁
LEAVE ME ALONE HOWARD!
The Wizard of DAWs 😁
HA!@ Thats very go
But i might switch to cubase specifically for filmscoring just because guy always using cubase
Ableton Live is not good for film or TV because it doesnt support timecode That means you cant export Broadcast WAV files which is the standard delivery format. So if you want to work on professional film or TV you need Logic/Cubase/Reaper/Studio One. LOTs of composers use Ableton though as well as its really good for sound design etc and then just bounce the stems and import the stems into the main DAW
how can u be so harp gliss guy
To bounce to audio, right click the track, freeze track, right click again, flatten track.
Yes I tried that but it is a lot of steps if you want to leave the midi track there as well. I gather L12 has made it a bit simpler
@@ThinkSpaceEducation see my comment buddy.
We can GROUP IN ABLETON?!?!
Ableton is really great for making any kind of music, the only thumbs down is its video work once the project gets heavier it keeps crashing.
Why would anyone want to write orchestral music in Ableton Live? Been there, done that. It has no chord track. No arranger track. No convenient transposing features. Very limited composing tools throughout. Cubase is much more suitable.
(But I did like Ableton for general music. Probably my favorite DAW overall. Just wish it had more tools for composing… like when is it ever getting an actual score editor?)
The Cubase ui gives me anxiety
Welcome to the dark side Mr Michelmore 😂