What Is Groove Part 2 with Adam Neely | In the Shop Episode #37 | Thomann
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- A couple of weeks back Andy and Julia asked themselves: What is groove? They wished they had Adam Neely at their side to really explain what's going on - so they got him in for TGU19! In the Shop Episode #37: Microrhythm and more!
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I'm a simple man, I see Adam Neely I click
B A S S
I (c)lick
I want to like but I can’t bring myself to kill your 69 likes
You are a true gentleman sir
My thoughts exactly
These two need to make more videos together. They know what they're talking about :-)
Fun fact: Cubase 2.0 (running on an Atari ST in the mid 1990s 👴) was advertised with "We make computers groove". And indeed they did. This was the first time that I not only saw digital quantization, but _quantifiable_ quantization and even quantization to pre-defined micro rhythms. I keep wondering why some people today still insist that music played by a computer is soulless.
In fact, I used that very Cubase 2.0 to figure out a bass groove of a piece of my band that I could not put the finger on: I thought I played the whole thing very laid back and expected one or two notes in each bar to be delayed by a few (dozen) milliseconds - and was surprised to find out that I actually slightly _rushed_ one note per bar, which gave the others that relaxed feel. And it was all perfectly expressable in hard digital numbers - nothing mythical about it. Any standard DAW will show the offset of single notes once you zoom in enough.
This cemented my dislike for spiritual-sounding bogus statements claiming that a good groove is somehow magical and cannot be _explained_ or - heaven forbid! - played by a computer. Just the fact that _one_ person might not be able to explain it does not mean that it _cannot_ be explained. Enter Adam Neely. 👏 Thank you for your insights, as always!
And since I am ranting away anyway: I truly resent people claiming that analysing something destroys its magic and that it cannot be enjoyed any more once you _understand_ it. To those I say: _I find your lack of faith disturbing!_ Berthold Brecht once said (he said it in German, of course...): "Pick apart a rose and behold: every petal is beautiful in itself". Refusal to learn the learnable is refusal to become a better person. I rest my case.
I guess when you know what you’re doing, it’s a great tool. Sometimes producers just randomly „correct“ which can completely destroy a great drum beat. We tried to record some reggae years ago and the tech just altered the drum beat to a degree that it killed my ability to lock in with the drums. Was a great day 😅
Two musicians, with instruments in their laps, talking about groove and rhythm and not giving examples by playing. Grrrrr !
yes it is quite funny they spent the whole video looking like talking music stand :-)
You’d be surprised how many musicians in the early part of their path as musicians are not clear on and often confuse the concepts of rhythm and groove. Rhythm is not too difficult to apprehend; one must understand and be able to play rhythmically before one can consistently play, either creating the groove or playing in relation to the pocket that is a function of the groove.
The drummer & bassist usually create the foundation of the groove. That makes it imperative that the drummer and the bassist are the first to understand the difference between the rhythm and groove. Again, they are the bands time keepers and groove masters.
So why talk instead of demonstrate? Because one can mimic something with enough practice. However to fully grasp the groove and understand what rhythm is and how it relates to the groove, the two must be explained first and the details made abundantly clear, otherwise the result is going to end up as a dumpster fire.
I’ve played guitar for close to 40 years and bass for 35. About six years ago I learned to play drums. The last 25 years I’ve been a music educator, sometimes as a teacher and sometimes as a creator of written curriculum for not just my students but for other instructors I know who didn’t want to reinvent the wheel. The subjects of rhythm and groove are two trouble areas that I’ve seen crop up for both beginners and otherwise fairly competent intermediate players.
@@kirkbolas4985 so what is groove in your words?
On the next episode we will be discussing what air looks like.
😂😂😂dude, you killed me dude
Oh shit
That’s really messing with me
Julia is like...are we gonna grove or talk? lol
I don't know why anyone would be confused about the definition of Groove, this was answered officially years ago...
...GROOVE IS IN THE HEEEE-EEEEART!
(Couldn't help myself 😁)
Very helpful and inspiring
One of the things that draws me to Julia is the way she moves when playing. Since starting to watch her play I perceive bass differently when listening to songs.And, as a complete novice I also find it easier to play when I engage my body and dance in my chair.
Super video - thank you both
Being in marching bands really helped me hone in on my rhythm. I don't even want to know how many hours I've spent marching with a beat and playing together, but this video made me remember something my high school band director said. If you aren't playing in time, there's no way you're stepping in time. It's all one system. I think marching band probably is such a valuable musical experience because it really keeps you honest about your internal clock in a way that I haven't experienced anywhere else.
This is SUCH great advice. Don’t laugh too hard but I got the same experience from dancing onstage. Once you internalise something, it’s impossible to lose it. Thanks for your input, Rachel!
//Andy
March with polyrythyms, mortal
Wonder is Adam and Julia matched outfits for this video :-)
It's cute how Adam is too shy to make eye contact because he's so committed to respecting everyone as individual persons (and in this case as a peer) but also thinks this particular one is hot. "Do you know this because it's how you behave in similar circumstances?" you ask? Well, I'm afraid I can't comment
Olov Stenlund idk either, but he definitely looked pretty uncomfortable, and I’ve never seen him like that in videos where he’s by himself 😂
it can be hard talking comfortably to people that having thick accents or dont speak english as fluently as you because you have to decide what words will be easier to get across but yeah i guess only adam will know why he wasnt making any eye contact lol
Totally awesome. Gave us some ideas about new things to try.
What A shop ! And the groove question is fascinating. Thank you guys.
As a player of both drums & piano/keyboards, I believe 99% of musicians & listeners cannot pick the slight subtleties that these people are discussing. If it swings, has feeling & puts a smile on your face, then the objective has been met.
The Gnaoua , designate in Algeria, Morocco and other parts of the Maghreb, designate members of sub-Saharan African origin, mainly descendants of slaves, gathered in mystical Muslim brotherhoods in which the trance plays a important role. !
THANK YOU ;)
I see Julia and I click.
That was really interesting, I had a conversation with my bass teacher about how I find bass lines easier to play if it's a song I can dance too
Julia and Adam, great vid, had a lot of stuff I wanted to say at first . As always best to listen through. Love yous! As Bootsy might say, awww hell he does, the grove is in the heart baby! That Delight bass line is a classic. Yeah Baby!
Adam Neely, defaults to intellectual, when really he thinks she's just too hot.
larsetom1 lmao I’ve never seen him look this uncomfortable in a video 😂
Thanks for making these videos
Why is this video only recommended to me now? Thanks guys great chat, and it's funny watching Julia looking like she's fanboying.
GROOVE is a SPIRIT that you can only feel.
Groove is when the chonk becomes the fonk ya dig?
I’m sure Rick James was thinking about the micro rhythm of a Viennese waltz when he came up with the groove for Superfreak?
Superfreak isn't grooving, it's funk.
@@earlgray7003 are funk and groove opposites? Never knew. Funky can move, groove and remove. The syncopation is just a bit difficult for a lot of people to really get.
I find the use of the words "push" and "pull" with respect to groove interesting. When I was younger I thought of a great blues guitar solo as a "push" and "pull", sort of a dance. This push and pull was the creating/releasing of tension.
I'm trying to follow the rabbit hole of rhythmic theory down.. but honestly there hardly seems to be any body to support one. I did however find one cool study (after having the thought myself) that compared groove to harmony. They even put it too the test by observing what made people move or groove more. The simplest way I can apply that concept or metaphor is that there's almost a "harmonic series" of intervals in rhythm (1hz, .5hz, etc..) that we are naturally attuned to and along with that comes dissonances, resolutions, etc.
Also in my opinion every attack , release, or "peak" (like a bend) adds to rhythm and all good musicians inherently feel this even if its subconscious. I think this affects people more than they realize. Even muting a string in a "microrythmic" way , say right before a different note can create a lot of invisible feeling. As a drummer I employ flams, swing and similar techniques all the time but a guitarist might not even realize that they're doing a lot of the same things when they play notes "around" the beat. Just because it has a specified pitch doesn't mean it's any less rhythmic than the drummer is.
"17/24 which ... is a ridiculous polyrythm" Indeed it is lol
In a room full of exotic wood, they're holding old school Fenders while discussing groove.
Finally. I've waited for this.
Well explained
Groovy video.
My two favourite bass youtubers! Introduced by my favourite guitar youtuber! Amazing. Love it.
What are the basses for (indirect for "Play, don't tell" as in "Show, don't tell")? How hard would it be to let one play exactly on the beat, and the other one micro-off? I'm left with only some micro-understanding ;-)
Bass is lif!
You were talking about dancers and musicians moving their bodies in time, but the difference maybe in the refining of gross motor (dancers) as opposed to fine motor (musician) movements. Such an interesting question though. I feel like some folks have an affinity for some grooves, there seems to be a nature versus nurture element and related debate too.
Delayed notes can be dotted notes in score. Fractions of notes can be notated. Adam makes me want to play my Bass more... the parts of the brain connected to the heart are where rhythm is processed and sensed also in the “motor cortex”.
Damn, that jazz bass is beautiful
It is Julia's favourite.
//Andy
*JULIAAAAAAA!*
(very interesting comment...)
Best comment yet man, glad you enjoyed the video ! :) // Guillaume
@@ThomannsGuitarsBasses :)
This shredding in the background :D
Yeah... sorry about that. I was just practicing at half speed.
//Andy
Yep. They had 5 mins to demo groove. Wow. A real missed opportunity.
Groove is lining up notes on a grid and having every note machine like.
@Thomann's Guitars & Basses - I know this video is a year old, but the way Julia demonstrated a Viennese waltz was wrong.
Go ahead and look up "Viennese waltz" on UA-cam. You'll hear that the 2nd beat comes in early; very characteristic of a Viennese waltz.
Agreed, and Julia said that before proceeding to play it straight and on the beat
The fact that it's hard for you 2 to 'dance' on your groove while playing (besides that you're somewhat limited in your movement because you also need to play an instrument ;-) ) proofs that dancing (even for you) is a different way of moving to (the same!) rhythm than playing is.
Steely Dan, Toto and Tommy Emmanuel have the groove! Tommy establishes and plays to an atomic clock precision constant beat established by his stomping foot and plays around it to produce a fantastic groove and the illusion of multiple instruments from a single guitar. I think it’s partially due to the way he can modulate the attack of each note he plays. Steely Dan used to practise and practise to loosen up the around the beat deliberately to get their signature live and relaxed sound.
Good morning Juliaaaaa
Fab!
This was rather awesome. Thank you Adam and Julia.
Thanks a lot!
//Kris
And thank you too, Kris.
Some interesting points here but I genuinely think
Your groove I so deeply dig
No walls only the bridge, my supper dish
My succotash wish
I couldn’t ask for another
No I couldn’t ask for another
My point being,
Groove is in the heart
Groove is in the heart
Hahaha, you can't avoid thinking about that song everytime you hear the word "groove", right? :D
For sure Module79L. It’s got a groove you could drive a bus down
Rythmic tension. It isn't really that hard to grasp. You can use a spectrometer and find where everything is hitting in relation and make observations and just like harmonic tension , you develop a lexicon of groove
Hey Julia .. I loved the way you plat the waltz .. When my wife & I lived in London .. there was an old Austrian ( ? ) woman who lived below us & she would play very loud Polkas on her Radio in the afternoons .. it was quite easy to play & dance to kind of Irish style " reel " or " Jig " .. But the main reason I am contacting you now & I really hope you not only read this but that you research it on Google yourself to be sure .. please ? Years ago there was a young German man who at the age of about 23 or more began to complain of feeling " light headed " & sometimes he would feel a little strange . He had lived an entirely normal life & had a good job working with his Brain . When the Doctors examined him they found that his Head was almost hollow & filled with fluid .. His Brain while acting normally was spread all around the inside of his skull at about 10 mm thick or so .. It seems he had bee Born with a lymph gland condition which had developed as he grew older & that the various parts of his Brain had been changed .. ? By his Brain to take the place of & to serve different functions . People ( like Adam ) who might tell you that " We " already know what parts of the brain are used for what functions are sadly un - informed . In many cases People have strange differences in their brains for example seeing sound in the form of colours . It is a "possible Fact " that since your Brain only ' Learns ' to translate what the available senses inform the Brain of .. That we do in Truth all live a tiny ( Pico ? Nano ? ) portion of a second after the outside event . Ligh travels faster than sound eg Lightning & then later thunder .. Ambidextrous people & left Brain thinkers are also examples of people agreeing while possibly comprehending things differently . We agree it is Red but do we both see the same colour ? Possibly not . All the spectrums of vision available to life on Earth have been around since long b4 Adam Neely lol Can he see in infared or like a Dolphin or a whale who can scan your body while under water & detect a pregnancy .. I could do a Ted talk Lol But far more learned professors than me could do it better .. mmm? some of them are too shy too Talk ( Maybe you should wear Big eyeglasses & a white laboratory coat with your hair in a tight Bun when you say " here is the Science bit " ) lol .. I am sorry if you find this ridiculous But as I am a person with a slightly strange brain myself .. Lol I dare you to try this .. sit at a drum kit & play drums with your feet while playing bass with one hand & singing & I am sure you could play a chord on a keyboard at the same time & still have a part of your brain that might be wondering if that cute Cameraperson would like to take you out ? Peace & love stay safe be cool & do not just believe everything you are told . As Socrates is supposed to have said " the one thing I am sure of is that I am not sure about anything " or something like that lol I can play drums bass & hang a guitar on my neck making it feed back using drum sticks to strike the strings & I did once to prove a bet . I even managed to sing the Toni Basil song Hey Mickey " .. But I cannot understand Jazz the way you do . I really hope you read this one Julia & talk to your parents about it .. You walk like a Dancer why did they not send you to Dance lessons .. lol perhaps they did .. Speaking several languages is also not something that is only possible in one part of the brain . I just don't want you to be mis - informed when a different truth might help you ,.. Like Quantum physics oops I am gonna stop .. ps I bought a Laney 40 Hub for my Bass practice .. not gr8 but it helps .. bye if you give me a like on this one would be nice .. Like they sent that space ship out among the star with a Gold record & no record player I mean Scientests ? lol
Groove is related to gravity, attraction to the center of the planet. Its about dancing and translating this impulse to the instrument. By the fact that it is related to the law of gravity, it is impossible to be divided by human intelligence. You just need to feel and trust the mechanism !
Julia, you need to have your own UA-cam station, teaching site or anything to do with bass. I’d be subscriber #1. (Unless you have one already, if so let us know!)
Adam is definitely the best UA-camr at talking about music on an intellectual level. This was a great pairing that should happen more often.
TGU20 Dance workshop for musicians (obligatory)! Over 2M views garantueed.
Just play it until you feel it.
I love her
I thought groove was just in the heart but apparently we need to
get Behind the Groove as well as
get Into the Groove and
Let the Groove get in but
Don't disturb the Groove
I say
Lets Groove as
one nation under Groove.
to many great songs groove me too many to list any how :D have Groovy day ery body's
cool video
Could have summed up this video with a few talking points: Subdividing and playing out front, back, and in the pocket.
One could also read a book
//Andy
This was honest and awesome
Are the guitars props?
Too bad you guys barely played anything... would’ve been cool to see you demonstrate the things you discussed
Groove is in the heart.
Great video, guys! Julia, you talk about playing with an imaginary drummer when you’re laying down the groove. I do this myself when I’m playing solo. I made a video on my channel about the differences between Time, Feel and Groove, I’d love to get your feedback on it.
All Adam REALLY wanted to ask Julia was:
"ARE YOU RUSHIN' OR ARE YOU DRAGIN'?"
Are you Russian? Or Dragon?
@6:35 think Joe Darts head bob, holy moly.
Start playing for dancers. It'll certainly teach any musician a lot about how they should keep the rhythm flowing. Nothing is more disturbing for a dancer if the groove slips out under our feet :) Also, they aren't thinking that differently, they are (mostly swing dancers) usually improvising on the rhythm with their feet/body movement. That's why tap dance is still a thing :)
2 seconds of bass at 8:44.
You missed 4 seconds at 6:15 :D
Wish they'd play and not describe.
Your heartbeat is a metronome. So it only makes sense that rhythm comes from the body.
How many times can you say the word like in a sentence?
Forever...annoying though 🙁
At least she can fluently speak a foreign language--English--unlike your dumb ass.
1:05 - But how am I to dance the Foxtrot alone?
I don't mean this as a taking a shot at him, but I'm not sure there is a person known as a UA-cam instrumentalist personality who plays music on camera less than Adam Neely.
Before his super Stans attack me, I will reiterate, I'm aware he is a capable bassist.
Was the only one feeling an intense sexual tension near the end?
Only near the end? Adam and Julia, sitting on a tree, ....
Isn't Andy a host on an Xbox channel?
Neely :Bla bla bla...
Julia: yea i play by my feelings
I get the impession that they are saying that the theory came first. This is a strange episode.
In ten minutes of video I didn’t even see an attempt to describe what groove is beyond « it’s something you feel in your body « . How is that improvement on what the laziest teacher would say?
just so you know, the G in gnawa is pronounced
Gno way. Sorry I had to. Thank you for the information (seriously)
@@manny75586 hahaha (g)ood one
Take a shot every time Adam says "like".
Groovy
If you have to aaaaask, you'll never knooow
If you don't ask, you don't get
//Andy
Different people may interpret groove differently.
Depends on the context.
Christopher but if you can't explain it you don't truly understand it
@@MonoLith2049 Intellectually, I would define groove as subtle nuances in microtiming that make you want to move. Does that help anyone play groovier? No. It's not about intellectual understanding, it's about listening and feeling. Also, my post was a reference to a (very groovy) RHCP song ;)
Funky motherfuckers will not be told to go.
no playing only talking ?..... why ?
Now if you want to win ther grand prize ... just guess how many times the word "like" has been pronounced ... :D
BASS
"Groove" is not exclusively musical term. It also applies, for example, to flying an Apache helicopter. That's why psychologists (especially the army ones) understand it ten times better than musicologists ;P However, the best explanation comes from Castaneda's imaginary teacher Don Juan Matus who called it "gait of power". As far as definitions go: It is kinetic framework for reliable prediction of events and time patterns. By the way, Julia was not groovin' on that waltz, but Adam was obviously too gentlemanly to notice ;P
I’m more of a pocket kinda guy
Put things just in the pocket ,deep in the pocket ,or hanging just out of the pocket...
That’s what I would say is groove
UGH!!!
* akwardly dances * - to me that's like groove
I've seen it only in two comments but : VIENNESE WALTZ IS EARLY TWO AND DELAYED 3. please check these kind of facts.
what is groooove?? baby dont hurt me, dont hurt me, no mooooree
You should search your feelings. I mean, do some research on argentinean folklore riythms. South american rythms, really. I guess you'd find them very interesting.
Isn't grooving just letting the rhythm of the music carry you away?
You can't be too technical when it comes to groove, every bassist / musician grooves differently on the beat or behind the beat or what ever and trying to measure groove with scientific debates or theoretical aspects of the musical language wont give you the answers.
To me groove is simply a feeling, a personal expression of the moment and interpretation of my mood of which I set when I'm jamming with other musicians who are also in the groove.
Does anyone else feel that analysing music to this level just takes the beauty, soul and mystique out of it? Just an observation.
Nope
Honestly, when I started getting more fluent in music theory concepts, I gained a whole new appreciation for music. When I listen, I have a greater awareness of the fine details. In my experience, my theory ability and my sense of inner feel developed together. Then again, I've always been a very analytic and meticulous person. I feel it varies from person to person; some people are naturally artistic and will instantly know how to get the sound they want, others hear a sound but need to figure out how to get there.
Great discussion. However, Flamenco music is dance based and Paco De Lucia has bass on some of his recordings
So much vocal fry
Ok, I'll just go ahead and say what we can all see - these two have chemistry.
...((BASS))
i'd dispute adams claim that every genre has micro rhythm. heavily edited progressive metal/djent that relies on super tight rhythmic unison is heavily heavily quantised and that is part of the style to be 100% bang on the whole time
That would still be somewhat of a micro rhythm, albeit very small and balanced. There's still a groove with progressive metal/djent, it just varies from artist to artist and song to song. So the overall micro rhythm or groove to the genre might not really "exist" but there is still one present when you listen to the music.
@@benjamingroening1534 not how Adam defines it, which is basically different beats being ever so slightly off
Well then the lack of micro rhythm is this styles micro rhythm