Civilization Without Agriculture? The Curious Case of the Calusa
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2024
- Largely forgotten today, the Native American Calusa people who inhabited Southern Florida in the 1500s built a sophisticated but unusual society. It wasn’t merely the fact that they forged a swampland kingdom whose capital stood atop an artificial island. Nor was it how they resisted Spanish influence for centuries. What truly made the Calusa stand out in history was the fact that they built their complex, sedentary civilization without farming… Wait, how could they be a civilization without farming?
Select Bibliography
Duara, Prasenjit. “The Discourse of Civilization and Decolonization.” Journal of World History 15, no. 1 (2004): 1-5. www.jstor.org/stable/20079258. Jager Stewart, Tamara, “Investigating the Calusa.” University of Florida Museum, September 2020, www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/sci...
Marquardt, William H, and Darcie A. Macmahon. "The Calusa and Their Legacy: South Florida People and Their Environments." University of Florida Press, 2024.
Reilly, Stephen Edward (1980) "A Marriage of Expedience: The Calusa Indians and Their Relations with Pedro Menéndez de Avilés in Southwest Florida, 1566-1569," Florida Historical Quarterly: Vol. 59: No. 4, Article 3.
Urbanus, Jason, “Searching for the Fisher Kings” Archeology Magazine, September/October 2021 edition.
Media Credits (excluding public domain)
- Florida Museum illustrations by Merald Clark
- Wikimedia Commons
- Vecteezy.com
- Opening Music: Homo Satori - Silent Leaves
- Sound effects from Microsoft, UA-cam, and pixabay.com
- Egghead Concept art by @M.E.ANDHistory
#nativeamerican #florida #ushistory #indigenoushistory #spanishempire #animation
Updated the title for clarity. Just to address something that has come up in the comments, scholars do not believe that the Calusa actively *raised* or *bred* fish using their fishponds. Rather, they used them as short term holding pens for wild-caught fish. (Still quite useful in a climate where food spoils easily)
The one important feature of "civilisations" is "cities." It's implied in the name.
The earliest example I can think of is the Yamnaya culture, who seemed to operate on animal husbandry, not horticulture/agriculture.
So therefore they were fish Ranching.
I'm 42, and a 3rd generation Floridian. My mother and I were born, raised, and still live in SWFL. Thanks for this video, I really enjoyed it. A few years ago I worked at a restaurant on Pine Island, Fl. Across the street was a park with really cool Calusa shell mounds. The highest one has such a great view of PI sound. The coolest part was a sign that said, humans have lived there continuously for at least 6000 years. Mind blowing when almost everything else in the county was built in the 20th century at the latest.
That is so cool. Thank you for sharing this!
Seems to be a trend among Native Americans. Caral Supe, the first civilization in the Americas (3500 BC), was also sustained off of seafood rather than agriculture. Same for Northwestern cultures, who mostly lived off fishing and even herded clams into little gardens. However, if you want an undeniable exception to the rule, look into Poverty Point (1700-1100 BC). They built huge earthworks and mounds entirely off of a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
I wasn't familiar with Caral Supe, until you brought it up. The debate on the relative importance of fishing vs farming for that civilization seems fascinating! I considered touching on poverty point since they may have been even bigger than the Calusa, but decided against it because we just don't know enough about them while the Calusa are relatively better documented. Thank you for the comment!
I recommend the book The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity by anthropologist and activist David Graeber, and archaeologist David Wengrow. After moving past the rigid hunter-gatherer vs agriculture mind frame, it’s clear that there is a lot of leeway in what can be considered agriculture as opposed to gathering. If a New World culture maintains a grove of nut-producing trees, including controlled burns and removing sick trees, that’s not agriculture because they didn’t plant the trees in the first place? If an Old World culture’s entire economy is based on catching wild animals, that’s somehow not hunter-gatherer because they’re European? (The Basques and cod fish).
Almost all cultures have a mix of agriculture and hunting-gathering. The dichotomy was a way for Europeans to consider their own cultures to be more advanced.
I was about to point out the Pacific Northwest that lived on fish and built a civilization
I would point out that the earliest evidence for civilization now come from Anatolia was pre agricultural
I was about to point out the Pacific Northwest that lived on fish and built a civilization
I would point out that the earliest evidence for civilization now come from Anatolia was pre agricultural
Titles video "Civilization Without Farming", then explains how they used fish farms.
Yeah, that is a fair point. I don't think the Calusa *bred* the fish in their fishponds so much as they stored them there after catching them from the wild, but yes, a lot of the literature on the topic tosses the term farming around without asking if aquaculture counts as farming.
You could argue that's more ranching then farming. It's definitely not agriculture.
Aquaculture and agriculture are both types of farming technically but it’s still a good video
When your comment makes the viewer retention end at the 3-second Mark
Aquaculture requires the breeding and raising of fish. They may have, but we can’t definitively say they did without a source to confirm it. If the ponds were used how he described in the video, it would not be a fish farm.
Storing fish in artificial ponds is no more farming than the hunter-gatherer drying or smoking meat for later consumption. There must have been relatively unique conditions to have food production from fishing to match the predictability of food production from farming that has been the requisite for most hierarchical sedentary societies.
Storing fish in artificial pools is definitely more farming than drying or smoking meat even if only because the two aren't mutually exclusive or inclusive, there's even a relevant distinction between the preservation of dead tissue and the captivation of living organisms. A more compelling justification I think for terming that sort of aquaculture as farming though is because it's not fundamentally much different to ranching, and static animal husbandry and agriculture are I think you'll agree quite tangled up in eachother
I just wanna say that if my video can foster these sorts of discussions, that alone means the world to me.
Most tribes in North America seemed to have multilayered systems. They were farming crops, creating areas specifically to increase hunting opportunities & stocking up areas near the village with wild edible plants. Southern Florida also has a really unique ecosystem & has tons of wild plants you can eat that literally only grow there.
Could it be the Calusa where aquaculturists all this time? Creating ponds to catch a keep fish alive seems something where they have some knowledge of it.
Southwest Florida is full of wildlife and especially sea life, but the soil is naturally horrendous for farming. This tends to be the case in many densely forested environments.
Fun Fact- I am a Creek Indian. Upper Creek, proud descendents of Red Stick Band. Ironically, I now live where the Calusa used to exist.
That's so cool! Thank you for taking the time to watch.
I'd say "civilization" could be defined as a number of people getting along and organising a way to survive and live together in one place. With some sedentary aspect.
People lost out in the wilderness say they've found civilization when they find an inhabited house or even a telegraph pole.
I never knew about Calusa. Fascinating, both in content and the questions raised.
I didn't know about them either until a year ago! Thanks!
Man this was a cool video. A civilisation without agriculture is very rare.
This guy needs more subscribers
The book Dawn of Everything helped me understand that the “Agricultural Revolution” wasn’t dramatic, linear, or as straightforward as the Industrial Revolution was. As is almost always the case, history is more complicated than we learn in primary school.
You just gotta eat what you can. The Badjau of SEA live on small islands, sometimes just a small sandbar. So they eat mostly fish. The Calosa had farming options but maybe they thought it was easier to just fish and do something else with the freed up time.
When the Spanish tried to get the Calusa to farm, the Calusa flatly refused, regarding it as inferior.
great video keep up the good work bro
Thank you!
Much anticipated new chapter. Keep them coming! Always of great interest. Thank you.
Thank you! I appreciate it. :)
Wonderful video. Keep up the great work!
Academics have used spurious reasons for years to boot the Cucuteni-Trypilia civilization out of the "civilization category" despite having multiple cities that dwarfed anything in Mesopotamia and hundred of years before those civilizations. No one would dare argue the Incas were not civilization for example, despite no writing system like ours.
Thank you. I never heard of that culture before, but a preliminary search of them on the internet reveals a lot of interesting information.
I went to Calusa elementary school for a year in Cape Coral in the 80s. Learned some interesting things about these people.
Great video, glad I got to find this hidden gem today
Here before 1k, seriously good video though, can't wait for more.
New sub. I like your channel and the video. Keep the good work 👍
Wow, that was really interesting !
Thank you for this fascinating video!
Enjoyed this, thank you. And learned something, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Good job mate, hope to seem more. I don't think you can ever go wrong with a history channel--okay not so with THE History Channel, but you know what I mean. Never run out of topics.
Intersting video, the content is definitely good. Work on audio mixing and this channel will surely grow well.
Thank you! Yeah, getting the audio right has been a challenge.
The Calusa extensively modified the landscape for their own purposes. I have spent a lot of time kayak fishing in southwest Florida, and the signs of the Causa are everywhere. Their "capitol" was Mound Key in Estero Bay, the entire island was built up of sea shells. Sandfly Island in the Everglades is also mostly man-made by the Calusa. Early settlers in southwest Florida (and this is the late 1800s and early 1900s) lived on these long-abandoned man-made islands to grow vegetables year-round, but the soil was poor and the homesteads eventually abandoned. Basically anywhere in southwest Florida you see mounds of sea shells it's the work of the Calusa.
Awesome video. Never heard of this civilization and I teach history. Subscribed.
Thank you! I hope I can live up to your expectations :)
when you can grow food all year around, a small garden and a source of meat is all you need. I imagine that the Europeans who said they didn't practice agriculture didn't understand that, when you garden year around, you need far less land, and you don't need to store much food.
Civilization has been considered to mean a culture that contains cities, that is population centers with extensive specialization of labor.
Thank you! The Calusa had neighbors who grew crops, but yes, their highly bioproductive, brackish environment (and one that simultaneously wasn't particularly friendly to agriculture at the same time) almost certainly played a role in their food choices and social structure.
Super interesting, thanks!
What an amazing video thank you for covering such a fringe historical matter and clarifying a dubious terminology with humour
Thank you for the kind words!
Dude thanks! I love it that you’re covering Florida’s original tribes, now if only ancient americas can give it
I was not prepared for Egghead's voice
You should look into the earliest Peruvian civilization. In my opinion cities are born from calorie and labor surplus. The Calusa and that Peruvian civilization got their calorie surplus from fish
You gained my subscription
Everyone: eat your _veggies_ , say “AAAA”
Calusa: nah bruh who needs that sh*t that grows from the dirt
One of my sources said that the Spanish tried to convince the Calusa to farm, and this is basically how the Calusa king responded.
Im going to Florida today
So this is must watch for me
I was taught a while back that a civilization requires a reliable food source. That was around 50 years ago
The pre-contact Hawaiians also utilized fish ponds extensively. They grew some crops, but relied just as much on gathering wild plants and fishing in the surf and ocean as well as their trap ponds. They lived in permanent settlements that included massive stone temples and stone foundation homes. They hunted and gathered along the sea shore, up the stream beds, and into the interior highlands, but were not nomadic.
Hawaiians based most of their economy on farming like almost all polynesians peoples
The concept of civilization is absolutely clear, and has been for around 3000 years. To civilize means to turn people into citizens with equal rights and obligations. It derives from the Latin word “civis”, which means citizen. The Roman empire was famous for turning all its inhabitants, eventually, into citizens. Same thing for the Spanish empire. But most recent empires enslave populations for the benefit of the metropolitan citizens, e.g. the British, French, Portuguese, Dutch, Belgian, German or Japanese empires.
only 216 subs? was expecting to see more with this quality of video tbh
“Art is the significant of a civilization”
It’s a real crying shame that this culture is no longer with us. There apparently are large numbers of Calusa, Tequesta, and Timucua descendants in Cuba, particularly on the outskirts of Havana but I don’t suppose there’s any way for them to restore their society.
Yes, I heard the same thing! I tried to make sure there were no groups claiming the mantle of the Calusa before saying they were extinct.
I don't know how well that scales to the entirety of society, but I don't have a problem with value judgements. I think the problem which the desire to remove value jedgements wants to adress is the following.
There is a reality both in the physical aspects as well as the metaphysical ones. Us humans are never capable of fully and correctly understanding it. We lack the tools to detect it properly and we lack the mental capability to comprehend it properly. So all we can do is have a model of reality that simplifies reality to a point where it is useful and mostly accurate. The various models will all simplify reality in a different way.
As an engineer I don't have a problem with the idea that I have two models that describe the same physical phenomena in two different ways. One is useful for one application while the other one is useful for the other application. If I say that I'm not allowed to do a certain model because it judges certain types of outliers then that limits my capability of making effective models. Or at least one that generalizes well with the standard situation. Instead of doing that, why don't we do the same thing as the biologists did with the concept of species. There are 30 different definitions of species. Some are optimized for birds, some for insects and others for trees. Reality is complex and if we want to have a unified definition then we have fallen victim to the concept called physics envy. Not everything has to have a unified and objective classification, especially if there is no unified and objective criteria to measure it.
If we have a eurocentric definition of what a civilization is, a tribalcentric definition of what civilization is and so on, will is still be judgemental? In my opinion not. But I don't know how well society and academia would be able to handle that approach.
Also I think this would be a much more honest approach. If we always fear that we may be overrepresenting one culture, then we will be overvalue that specific factor when it comes to making statements. And perhaps doing that will hinder us from making certain discoveries.
Really good stuff! Glad I stumbled across this.
I definitely agree that classifying agrarian civilizations as the "only" civilization is very silly and could understand the term itself getting phased out, but I'm also not sure if the Calusa are truly that much of an "edge case" when their fishing technique amounts to, more or less, animal herding. I'd argue that's still agriculture, and that they might not have built the other markers of "civilization" without this technique.
Thank you for your support and feedback!
I never thought of it that way, but you have a point. In a way, the Calusa were kind of "fish herders." Whether one calls it agriculture, aquaculture, or just plain fishing, their innovative system undeniably helped them accomplish all the other markers associated with civilization, and the lack of a straightforward word to describe says as much about us as it does about them.
@@Secondhandhistory Very true; I didn't think of my comment as "feedback" or a criticism, just a perspective. There are definitely purists out there who wouldn't call what the Calusa did "agriculture" in any sense, so it's all a matter of how you see the lines between what are ultimately made-up categories.
Anyway, I'm excited to see more from you! Digestible history that actually considers how we approach the topic and why is in short supply and very important to have.
Thank you! Ultimately I don't want to weigh in with my opinions so much as facilitate discussion, but just to be clear, I love feedback and long, thoughtful comments. I have a few other videos that approach other historical topics a less familiar PoV available on my channel. (Well, at least I like to think they do, haha!) Perhaps they may be of interest.
You could say farming is not really part of what defines a civilization, but anything that secures food for a large population.
Many coastal cities are heavily dependant of fish and seafood, so they don´t have to relay so much on crops. Agriculture just happend to be the most eficient in many cases.
Depends how one chooses to see/define agriculture. They used to say the CA Ohlone didn't "farm". We now know our Oak forests, like the Amazon Rainforest, was a created, managed and curated 'Food Forest'. What we now might call Permaculture. But the colonists couldn't see how advanced it was, because it wasn't a monoculture in straight lines.
The algorithm has chosen you
😆
Civilisation is a result, not a criteria to achieve that result.
Always down to learn about pre Colombian civilizations. It’s a shame so much of their history has been lost to time
If the chief parameter for a social organization to be considered a civilization is civility - the observation of the rule of Law by its constituents - then the world has seen very few civilizations, and a great many barbarities; oft committed by men who thought themselves 'civilized'.
Wait a second. If the Calusa had vegetable gardens, that IS agriculture. I think maybe it sounds more appropriate to say 'minimal agriculture.'. The Calusa are very much a fascinating group of people. Living in Florida in a time that there was nothing but swamps and gators is nothing but amazing.
I think that the most satisfying and consistent definitions of "civilization" seem to center around large-scale urbanization. That is to say cities of the tens of thousands, rather than towns and villages of the hundreds or low thousands.
I think there are a few reasons why this works: as urban agglomerations get larger, they eventually get large enough that you can't reasonably know everyone, or even know everyone's family. When a city becomes largely made up of strangers, then the way in which this society organizes itself must fundamentally change: rules of conduct become more formalized, which goes hand in hand with the centralization of power. The conception of Asabiya also must move away from kin-groups and towards greater ideas of "the nation". Writing also becomes more favored at this point, but not quite inevitable (e.g. the Incas ,though they likely would've shifted from proto-writing to writing eventually if the Spanish hadn't arrested their progress). This view has the advantage of including the people we typically do include (the Incas are sitting in Cusco with 50k of them, the Aztecs with the millions in Tenochtitlan), while excluding the proto-civilizations, like the Irequious, or the Mississippi river valley peoples, or the Calusa. It also means tht Golbeki Tepe likely was proto-civilization, not true civilization (for that you'd have to look to the tens of thousands of residents of Ur or Uruk).
Now, if there were like 30K of them all residing within the Calusa capital, then we're talking about something different entirely. But their population was a variety of villages spread out over the Everglades, all of which can use more """"primitive"""" styles of social organization, making the Calusa something of a complex chiefdom.
Really the only thing in the US that even comes close to a true city prior to European colonization is Cahokia, and even then only barely.
Thank you for this long, thought out comment! I live for comments like these.
Love that ending.
I don't like tip toeing on eggshells around terms because ultimately doesn't correct some perceived injustice. Just use it factually within context I'd say.
Thank you for this video. +8 Gen Floridian here. The indigenous people of the Americas practiced land and fishery management on higher order. Idk if you mentioned it but 1491 by Charles C Mann expands upon this subject.
I haven't read that book yet, but I've heard a lot about it!
I understant the need to make it public to finance more research about it 😉
I am convice that they did great at fish farming, that they did thrive as a culture in the region, and that they probably are kickass as a nation. But so far i cant agree 100% on what is claim here about a mostly Fish Diet.
And Mostly...Great work and i appreciate the content!
Thank you!
Firstly: Any kind of deliberate control of fish or wildlife constitutes an argument for aquaculture or animal husbandry.
Secondly, that the Calusa exacted tribute from neighbouring fearful tribes indicates a kind of imperialism... which not only means that while the Calusa themselves did not practice agriculture directly, to some - possibly a critical - extent, they depended on it.
Thirdly, and derivative from the second point; it is not surprising that suppressed peoples on the periphery of Calusa 'territory' colluded with Europeans, gained superior weaponry, and contributed to the demise of the Calusa.
''Sic semper tyrannis''
I'd say that the deliberate alteration of natural landscapes (changing the access to plant and/or animal resources) just to be able to ensure food abundance is indeed a form of agriculture. It's not European, but it is a form of agriculture, especially since they provided food for those fish in those ponds (lake weeds, etc), rather than just storing them in water-filled pots or whatever. (jmho)
All i want to say is that mr egghead looks like he would make a good omlet
This is an interesting video, have you seen my video on the subject?
I just did. It was fantastic! You have a new sub!
Māori people had no written language though it would be difficult to claim we did not develop to the level of “civilisation”
Just found your channel, amazing content! Wish for more growth for you and for more videos for us.
Regarding all this silly "civilization/barbarians" dichotomy... I wonder whether James C. Scott (an anthropologist and a strong advocate against such division, check "The art of not being governed" or "Against the grain") wrote anything about Calusa, looks like his topic
Thank you! Admittedly I'm not familiar with Scott. Personally, my inner fuddy-duddy isn't ready to let go of the concept of civilization completely, but it is a valid (and interesting) debate!
@@Secondhandhistory I'd recommend Against the Grain, it's a very interesting read.
One word to define civilization. Education
Also northwestern American seafood harvesting tribes had a highly developed culture without farming or writing or permanent architecture
Oh, no! Poor Egghead! 😅
What type of food did Calusa get through trade? Did they actually eat plantbased foods like bread and corn or were they mostly eating what they gathered themselves?
Good question! I'll need to double check, but I believe the Calusa did obtain corn and animal products via trade or tribute.
Well, civilization derives from civies, i.e cities. I also note that the Calusa DID use a variant on farming - ranching, except that they "ranched" fish.
Fish ranchers. I love the mental image.
This makes sence for Florida.
Civilization without agriculture - looks inside - aquiculture
The small vegetable gardens don't count? I know Floridian tribes were some of the last to acquire corn before European arrival, but I'm assuming they did something similar to what the Seminoles in the Everglades did until the 1950s, when the US tried to turn southern Florida into a massive resort- use small areas of raised ground throughout the swamps to cultivate whatever plants they could grow there.
I couldn't find out much about the vegetable patches, unfortunately. The sources that mentioned them at all only did so in passing. It was clearly not a major part of the Calusa's diet.
the argument made at the end is an example of the beard fallacy: just because there's no clear line where a man goes from being clean shaven to having a beard doesn't mean it's a meaningless distinction.
Serious content snuck in the guise of slapstick. 🤪
can create similar thing with game?
3:55 In a weird turn of events many Calusa fled to Cuba escaping british slavers, since indigenous slaves were illegal in Spanish America at that time. There could even be living descendants of them today.
Yes, I heard the same thing. I really went out of my way to ensure that there was no effort to "reclaim" the Calusa identity or mantle before using the word "extinct."
"Civilized" means "living by laws". Definition. And it's not more complicated than that!
I figure if you have permanent cities and occupational specialization, you’ve got civilization. Normally that requires agriculture, but if you live in a rich enough environment that local food sources replenish themselves as fast as you consume them, then there’s no reason that you can’t have civilization without agriculture, *if you can keep population growth in check.* Without that, if each additional person represents an additional drain on the local food supply without also bringing additional acreage into cultivation, you’ll eventually exhaust even the richest environment. Technically, of course, that’s true of agriculture too, since arable land isn’t infinite, but that doesn’t kick in until several orders of magnitude later.
Thank you! Carrying capacity can be quite a tricky thing to figure out, especially over very long periods of time.
"Civilization" should be judged based on how a people treats people
What about the Tlingit?
Unusual combination of a light-hearted, irreverant (dare I say, juvenile?) presentation of questions surrounding the concept of civilization (or shall I say CIVISATION?; rip Kenneth Clark). Are you a conflicted subversive? 🗽🗼✊
Thank you! I don't know how common it is, but it is the style that feels natural to me. And yes, Kenneth Clark was awesome.
Also the use of "chiefdom" when referring to these kingdoms is crazy when there were much smaller "kingdoms" in the Old World. They like to use "chief" to subtly lower North American kingdoms under their levels. Calusa was a kingdom, and so were the surrounding kingdoms under its vassalage.
I can understand using the term chiefdom for a looser organization, but yeah I went out of my way to avoid using that term in this video, except when I absolutely had to in the second half because it was an (outdated) anthropological term.
@@Secondhandhistory Could part of the use of the word for chief over king have to do with the nature of how the leadership rose to power? Kingdom implies divine right and inherited titles. Chiefdom seems to me as a system that is looser with how one rises to power and not based on a divine right. However, people like the Aztecs definitely had kings given their system.
IIRC the Calusa throne was at least theoretically hereditary. That isn't to say that there weren't usurpers or dynastic disputes though. We know both of these facts because the 1566 Spanish expedition got involved in one such dispute!
FLORIDA MENTIONED!!! 🌴🌴🌴🐊🐊🐊🌅🌅🌅
kinda feel like digging pools and keep fish there would be a form of farming.
Awesome vid. Reminds me of how complex Pacific Northwest societies could be due to calorie surplus from salmon run
I would call them "ranchers." And I believe "ranching" of some kind may have predated agriculture. Its just easier to do.
How so you know that the Inka neuer had a writing System?
There is debate as to whether the quipu counts as a writing system or was just a way of recording quantifiable information, but despite some recent publications asserting the contrary, the general consensus appears to remain that it was not a true writing system, capable of communicating narrative information.
@@Secondhandhistory If quipu was or was not a writingsystem is irrelevant. My point is 1.complex societies dort work without writing. You need architekt for buildings. Architekts need books for learning. Junges need ways to write down decisions in Seminar cases. Lawers and other groups need ways to write down Things in folders 2. Our historians only Accenture writing when they find writingartefacts. For example. A long time Our historians thought that the etrusciand only used their writing for grafestones because they only found it on gravestones. Until they found 1 Single peace of paper in an egyptian mumy in the time when mummies had to be aß cheap aß passable and the ägyptians used the cheapest Material they could find. Thesame was believed about germanic Runes. Until they fpund 1 complex runetext from the 9. Century. Now they Thing that germans User rundes for complex Things from the 9. Century on. Ceasar mentions in de bello galico that the gauls User greek writing Our historians did not find such writing so they asume the gauls did not User writing. 3. There is a theory that Saison that the 7500 wallpaintings in french is cave are not Art but a manual about how to hunt. If that is true than even simple societies use a simple writingsyszem. People invent Symbols for memorypurposes, when something becomes complex. Thats what we do. If the Inka did not User Quito than they had something Else.
They "farm" like a DotA player "farm" gold.
Civilization is derived from the Latin "civitas", City. So I would consider a civilization as a human group that can sustain a city. Now, that needs food surpluses. stability, some type of law and leadership... If you got a lasting city, you got a Civilization. If you don't, you arte roaming barbarings. At least that's what I learnt playing thew Civilization games.
There was a people group in modern day Russia who were much like this too
My favorite peopple ever!!! So cool!!!
I take your point but a basic set of descriptors are necessary. If some hypersensitive somewhere takes umbrage that their favorite culture doesn't qualify, that's on them. Of course that doesn't mean that the group in question didn't have a vibrant and dynamic culture. To grant every relatively primitive culture the badge of being a civilization is to render the term meaningless. Meaninglessness being the childish zeitgeist of the 21st century! I hold civilization to be basically a culture that predominantly features large urban concentrations in the tens of thousands requiring a political and bureaucratic scale of organization. These would be preceded by proto-civilizations.
Maybe someday the second hand history treatment of historical (or even contemporary) figures we'd visually recognize, e.g., in 20th century events? I'd love to see playmobil-ish representations of, uh, Rasputin or Mussolini.
20th century videos will take place!
so fish farming....
Soooo, they did farm… fish?
Everything I encountered indicated that the fishponds were more of temporary holding pens for recently caught wild fish, but fair point. Even if it wasn't "true" aquaculture, it's on that path!
@@Secondhandhistory oh they were not long term ok that makes sense, I see there’s a grey area between farming and entrapping so it begs the question, is it really farming if they don’t maintain the population themselves opting to just reopen the canal or build a new one?
nice video - sometimes UA-cam algorithm makes you discover something interesting.
Thank you! I hope my channel can be of interest to you. Perhaps you had watched a couple history videos? It doesn't take much for the algorithm to pick up on something.
The same goes for Jomon civilisation in Japan
You are right, they build a Kingdom, not a civilization.
History is writen by the historians
You keep mentioning Spanish slavery, but not that the Calusa were slavers.
It's quite likely that they attacked the Spanish in the hopes of enslaving them.
Oh my god, that is so interesting! But if they did have those artificial pools of water, then maybe we can call it at least para-fish-farming hahae. And for me giving up on world civilisation is a somewhat good idea, people really think less of a Bushmen for example, because of lack o civilisation….
Thank you! Yes, it is true that part of the reason why some scholars want to phase out the term civilization has to do with being tied to the preferential treatment of certain groups over others.
the video never really explains how they survived without agriculture, just they didn't have it
And they say that those who created gobekli tepe, couldn't had civilisation couse they could not farm
It is part of what makes them so significant. Previously, no one believed that hunter gatherers were socially capable of monumental architecture, let alone preceding the birth of the first "widely accepted" civilizations in Egypt and Mesopotamia.