AUTHOR'S NOTES AND DONATIONS LINKS HERE! Donate to Rainn (USA): www.rainn.org/ Donate to the Survivor's Trust: thesurvivorstrust.org/donate-to-the-survivors-trust/ AUTHOR'S NOTES/ CLARIFICATION: When discussing the Kavanaugh case, I appear to have condensed the timeline of events, somewhat. I describe it as happening in a few weeks, but show footage of the hearings occurring months after. This was due to me confusing the publication of the accusations in September, with them first being disclosed in an anonymous letter to the senate. The facts of the investigation and its handling are, to my knowledge, accurate. I just wanted to clarify the timeline a little.
The idea that sexual history has anything to do with rape is so weird to me it's like saying " since you eat a lot of cake you can't have eaten a poisoned cake slice" Or the idea that having previously reported being raped discredits them, it's the same logic as thinking: if you were robbed once you can't be robbed again
The comparison you draw between getting robbed multiple times and false accusations is not valid because it ignores a crucial element: the intent behind false claims. This is especially relevant in today's society, where accusations can sometimes lead to men being condemned without sufficient evidence, making it even more crucial to carefully evaluate the credibility of the accuser. When false claims are made, they not only destroy the lives of the accused but also undermine the credibility of true victims, making it harder for them to seek justice. For example, in cases where individuals have a history of false reporting, such as the notorious case of Jemma Beale in the UK, it was shown that she fabricated multiple sexual assault allegations over several years, causing significant harm to innocent people. These instances are not about victim-shaming or discrediting real victims of sexual violence. They’re about addressing individuals who repeatedly make false claims, which undermines genuine cases and the trust placed in the legal system. Thus, while every case must be examined on its own merits, ignoring a documented pattern of dishonesty isn't just dangerous, it's irresponsible. Criminal history can and should be a factor in assessing credibility, just as it would be in any other context where someone's behavior has previously led to harmful consequences
@@alta1r_894 "sexual history" and "documented pattern of dishonesty" ain't the same thing, one is well, your sexual history, he other would be documented in your LEGAl reccord, like if you steal someone's watch you know where they will look to know if it's a repeated crime? that's it! your Legal record! not your watch owning history
@@alta1r_894 did you watch the video? The whole point of it is specifically how it doesn't. I mean a rapist became a justice on the supreme fucking court. If it ruins your life then when does it?
Apart from everything already mentioned, there’s the fact that the size of the taken samples is far too small to state anything about the ‘whole population’. That’s just basic statistics.
The direct answer to the title is we can't know. An accusation might be dropped by a complainant for a variety of reasons, or police might "no-crime" out of a belief a conviction is unlikely, or the prosecution may fail to prove _beyond reasonable doubt_ that the defendent did what they are accused of... ...but none of those things prove an accusation false. That isn't something the justice system does. Social media accusations are another matter, because the evidential basis for those is whatever random people on the internet want it to be. Somebody might consider a rebuttal to an accusation proof the accusation was false but that holds weight only to them. You can't collect data from that.
Because the defendant can’t actually defend their case, then that still means that r*pe occurred. So basically you’re just pressuring the accused until they get a confession.
Yeah I love starting a new life after losing 10 years in jail. Losing all my friends and family, I love how easy it is to just get a new family and new life long friends and a new career. Losing my soulmate. Losing my scholarship that I needed to finish school, that’s so much fun, really. I love losing psychological stability, and getting trauma from prison rape and assault for being known as a sex offender even more! New contacts and network, new Alma mater- if I already lost 10 in jail why not go back to college and do it all of it over again what’s 4 years more? I would always want it to be as easy as possible to lose all that. That would be so much fun to lose because of something I didn’t do, and start a new life- think of the possibilities!
This was a really interesting video. You navigated a fraught topic and are excellent at conveying information. And you model critical thinking for your audience. I always get new insights into analysis, other people's perspectives, and how my own mind works from your videos. Thank you
Thanks so much for the kind feedback! Too many people resort to lazy stereotypes based on gut instinct, and I hope that this video manages to make some people aware of that, and encourage them to change.
It's crazy how you've made a 48 minute video describing rape culture, and then the comments are full of people who are exactly what you are talking about, and criticizing you with your credible studies and nuanced thinking
Thank you for this excellent dissection of the issue and how overblown it is. I've heard people talk about these accusations like it's a big looming issue, but hadn't looked into the statistics and studies to gauge their credibility.
Honestly! So many people love to vaguely gesture at "how common they are" without providing the hard data to back it up. So that's where I decided to step up and see for myself. And of course, it's nowhere near as common as people make it out to be.
@@datamale You literally present it from a Western point of view. Have you seen how apparent it is in India? A false rape accusation will get weaponized against the opposing party. Its such a shame based from the comments how its being downplayed.
Thank you for your rigorous investigation of false accusations. One of the things that I think our society needs to change is the police officers who are assigned to investigate rape cases. If the police officer believes that 99% of rape accusations are false, then they are never going to do a thorough investigation. We need police who believe the person asserting that they were sexually assaulted is telling the truth.
Unfortunately, it seems that these policemen are often a reflection of the biases of the culture they grew up in. It's not simply a police issue, but an issue of the culture that fosters that attitude that they adopt. The problem runs much deeper than the individual, it seems.
When there are reports of when female officers/detectives are the lead of such investigations reporting less than 20% are false after the reporting of 41-50% of cases being false, im inclined to believe the latter that the true statistics are higher than what's being reported. I also like to mention that a lot of these cases that tend to be persued are due to forensic fraud seeking a conviction knowing that majority of country can not afford private attorneys.
The Innocence Project wouldn’t have data on that, because that’s not what they do. They primarily focus on crimes like murder and have only freed around 250+ people, so any numbers that they have wouldn’t be enough data to properly get an idea about wrongful conviction rates regarding SA. Them attempting to help someone be proven innocent also doesn’t mean that they are, if they are able to free someone then clearly they were correct in doing so, but if not then you can’t really say. Also the racism issue is its own problem entirely, and has a lot to do with the perceptions of minorities in the west as being dangerous and uncivil, as well as the insecurity of men in the majority groups about “their women” being “defiled”. It’s more racism than sexism.
@@TheNerevahkiin Something like 80% of the men freed by the Innocence Project are men wrongfully convicted of sex crimes. My point is that wrongfully convicted men exist, and sexism is inextricable from racism. Most of the time when a race is demonized or portrayed as lesser it's specifically their *men* that are portrayed as the problem, not their women.
@@terraneaux that is not it at all. He is saying that the number of false accusations are significantly lower, and not just that but the system and culture in which we engage with serious crimes like this is fundamentally flawed
Hypotheticals are important in conversations. You can't have intellectual discussions that explain concepts without them, because you will almost never have a readily available example available. What's even better is hypothetical backed with elements of actual events and real elements. If you want to say the Bible is an example of this, it really isn't either. Reading it and cross referencing a lot of its sources reveals a lot of logic formed around the concept of theology. It is more intellectually bankrupt to simply say "it's not happening before my eyes, therefore it must not exist".
The fact that an accusation could be false, and that an accusation by itself is already incredibly harmful to someone's wellbeing by itself, means every accusation should be scrutinized until there's no reasonable doubt left. No, I will not instantly believe an accusation just because the accuser is a woman.
So... I have to ask. How are male victims of abusive female partners supposed to fit into this? Because we know that abusers lie, right? In fact, it's impossible for abusers to operate as abusers without lying. They socially isolate their victims, so there aren't witnesses and the victim has no one to present their truth to, and then the abuser ensures that they maintain exclusive control of the way the relationship is perceived by the rest of the world. And if at some point they are getting found out, their only defense at that point is to justify their aggression by framing it as self-defense or that the dynamic is justified by some past transgression by the victim. This is **universally** how abuse functions, regardless of the gender of abuser or victim. I don't care to try and contest whether or not false accusations are rare. The conclusion you seem to be supporting is that women's accusations should be given the benefit of the doubt, at least, if not believed by default. Your argument at 19:30 pretty directly states that treating "unproven" as "unknown if true or not" is the wrong attitude. You do code the default gender of an accuser as woman multiple times throughout the video, condemn instances of people pushing back against #believewomen, and frame the discussion in your video description box as "A deep dive into the concept of "false accusations" against men". So I'm not here to challenge you on your conclusions regarding the rarity of false accusations. I want to know how a man with an abusive female partner is supposed to navigate their situation in a world that views this issue the way you want it to? Are they supposed to just... trust that because it's rare that he shouldn't worry his abuser will use that power to punish and control him, or defend herself against his true accusation? Despite his abuser telling lies about him being his experience with that person? Does that really sound reasonable? If not, isn't it reasonable for men to want the threat of false accusations to be taken seriously?
wow this is a lot of assumptions and generalizations that I can't agree with without evidence. It seems like a cultural viewing of abuse just like the cultural view of rape. This problem you are bringing up is not what this video is about nor what it claims to be about. I don't know why you are accusing the creator of delegitimizing rape cases because he only talks about female rapes.
@@somuchsoul3041 I have no idea what you're saying? I don't accuse them of delegitimizing rape cases? The argument Data Male is making at 19:30 is essentially that treating "unproven" as "unknown if true or not" is misguided and harmful. Quote: FreedomToons: "To assume that only 2-10% of rape accusations are false because only 2-10% are proven false would be as silly as assuming that only a small percentage of rape accusations are true because only a small percentage are proven to be true." Data Male's response to FreedomToons: "But this is misguided. It relies on the presumption that false and true claims have an equally likely chance of occurring, which, as we've already covered, isn't true. Making the claim that 'We just don't know' does nothing but deny the very real historical instances where societal attitudes towards rape victims as liars or clout chasers or any other such harmful outlook has resulted in real and direct harm." In other words, to treat "unproven" as "unknown if true or not" is in Data Male's view harmful to victims and ignorant of the data. Ergo accused should be treated as guilty until proven innocent, because as Data Male *directly states*, maintaining neutrality until a case is proven is wrong. So let's run with that. I don't care to contest it. I want to know what male abuse victims are supposed to do in a world where people believe accusations as true by default. You can agree that people who abuse their relationship partners lie, right? That shouldn't be controversial? They excuse controlling behaviors by framing their partner as incapable of managing things themselves (as my ex did). Or tell people their victims injuries are from falling down the stairs. So *regardless of whether false accusations are rare or not*, how is a man with an abusive partner supposed to protect himself if society gives them this lie for free? If society behaves as Data Male says it should and treats rape accusations as guilty until proven innocent, and a man finds himself with a woman who displays a pattern of lying to control him and protect herself from being discovered as an abuser, how is that man supposed to navigate the threat of being falsely accused? He can't win. If society believes her by default, then she has absolute power over him and there's nothing he can do. All this attitude does in the name of preventing men from abusing women is give women free license to abuse men. And I would not interpret it this way if Data Male's language was not coded as male perpetrator/female victim, but it consistently is... as it always is with anybody who pushes this agenda, without exception.
Thank you so much for the kind words! I wanted to cover ALL of the biggest studies I could find on this matter that still get cited today. To be honest, I've probably still not even scratched the surface of what's out there, considering how widely discussed it is for such a small issue when compared to rape culture as an ongoing crisis.
What's really funny is that in the exact same issue of Archives of Sexual Behavior that Kanin's paper was published in, there's another paper about the prevalence of college men being sexually abused. But none of these MRAs are pointing to it and saying the men are lying.
why would a guy lie about being raped?! he gains almost nothing and would likely ruin his rep if people found out he lied, as compared to female false accusers who almost dont ruin their reputation
@@datamale Men pay a much higher social cost to lie about this kind of thing than women do. Still, most women *don't* like about this, but enough women do to cause serious problems.
Frank Stephen says that everyone would know at least one man whose been been falsely accused, a more accurate statement would be everyone knows at least one person (most likely a woman but not discounting male victims) who has been sexually assaulted/raped. We just don’t talk about it or report it because nothing gets done. But that doesn’t fit with their narrative, does it.
@@datamale Oh of course, definitely not, I wrote my comment in ‘wtf, that’s not how this works’ sort of response to his comments. He was purposely misrepresenting facts and cherry picking (as you pointed out in the video). The whole thing made me want to throw my phone in frustration since it’s not uncommon for people out there to think like him and he was just so condescending. I greatly enjoyed your video and hope we can start shifting away from the 40% figure. I think my first comment may have been poorly worded because Frank pissed me off so much (as a victim of SA, that knows many other victims of SA).
The bias is palpable in this video. You don't give the papers you cite yourself as the "correct" ones nearly the same sense of scrutiny and close-evaluation as the ones you condemn. You assume all societal influence to be singularly directional and devoid of complexity. You can't cite societal influence as a direct causal factor in such a way that explains away certain results when convenient. For example, the idea that the societal pressure to recant is a constant in ballooning statistics is not verifiable in any of the direct studies you included. You may has well have proven in your cited sources that conservative people are more likely to believe accusations to be false while more progressive individuals will assume more accusations to be true- well no shit. Why did you not consider the societal pressures on the researchers themselves, who undoubtedly live/work in a more progressive environment that is naturally going to make the criteria for a certifiably false accusations much stricter, such that a great deal of actual false accusations are discarded? I'm not saying recanting is a reliable metric, or that Kanin was thorough enough, but at least he provided more atomized representations of false rape claims. I agree with your point that the impact of false accusations isn't a uniform constant of destruction, but again, who's to say societal pressure doesn't also push more women to use false claims outside court, where damage can be done outside the view of any of these studies? Who's to say in our metoo society that societal pressure isn't more likely to push women to falsely report period? My personal experience living on a college campus would suggest enough young women at least are quick to consider many things assault and have a type of social expectation that part of fitting in is having your own rape story. I can't speak for older women who would most likely skew the opposite way in how society pushes them. Furthermore, and something much overlooked is the fact that for a false accusation to be false in the first place, someone has to bring it forward to some force of power period. False accusation is not a subgroup in the pool of unclaimed rape, which means its entirety exists within the category of claimed rape. In my experience, a lot of real SA cases go under the table because they're never followed to court or any institution. On the other hand, false claims themselves are attracted to systems of power. Societal pressure post me-too may be more significant in influencing victims to never come to report at all, then dismissing them when they are actually pursuing justice, while dropping the case entirely is going to be a much greater sign that you are realizing the system isn't going to back a verifiably false accusation. If the courts don't work out, then a woman determined still has a ton of avenues to justice- institutions, workplaces, media, doxxing, etc, that is all supported as long as she has at least somewhat believability. To suggest societal pressure can explain away the 40% statistic but not the 2-10% statistic is just bad practice. And the UA-camr you criticize makes a good point with that too. Your rebuttal to his point that there is vaster range of uncertainty that goes both way, is actually to say "well I mean yes the logic checks out but rape is not inherently true/false" after using studies that are all inherently built of the idea of definably constraining rape accusations to true or false? 99% of rape cases are true or false- in any number of ways to define it. The accused would be found guilty by a court in a world if every moment was replayable, vs wouldn't be found guilty. They actually had sexual relation vs didn't. Consent was given vs wasn't. Any one of these is black and white, whether they are a complete metric for rape or not. Is it possible 60-70% of accusations that are recanted or never brought to court not rape? Yes, it's entirely possible even if perhaps not reasonable. Is it possible only 2% are? Certainly. The issue is that both sides are too quick to override the others' reasons for believing one data skew while blindly accepting their own. The reality is likely somewhere in the middle, as per usual, and I don't appreciate this video's attempt to appear academically principled while approaching its own analyses with such oversight. You concluded 2-10% because you wanted to- not because it's actually what is true. Same as people who jump to cite 40% before reading what they're citing and realizing it's a dinosaur. Guess what, people lie. And people rape. And rape itself is an act that is confusingly "he said, she said" because it is both capable of being an act of pain or pleasure, based on things that are incredibly difficult to provide evidence for, let alone condemn the destruction of someone's life for. At the same time, it's something that is seen (for a reason beyond me, a victim myself) as the worst possible thing a human can do to another, and as women receive a special sympathy from society and the legal systems in any case where they are a victim, it is therefore seen as one of the worst things possible. This makes it so on the one hand no one wants to fess up to it publicly, and on the other hand society wants to punish it as harshly as possible (when in reality, all rational people should be able to understand, stepping back and getting over your societally constructed shock, that most rape cases are not worse than bloody torture and are more like a brutal mugging where a group beats you up, strips you down and forces you to eat dog poop - risk of disease, gross feeling, humiliation, physical violence, lack of power, domination, psychological fear & damage, plus feeling of theft, over quickly but still feels like a long time). On the victim's side of things, a lot of things can be gained from coming forward with a false accusation - perhaps more than with a real accusation- as a crafted scenario can do exactly as Kanin suggests- create an alibi, get revenge, or attract positive social attention/belonging. What a lot of people don't realize is that false accusations that end up destructive rarely happen as if the accuser forgot to consider what the accused would go through. Most of the time, the accused is seen by the accuser as deserving it for one reason or another. A bf she'd grown resentful of for perhaps justifiable reasons but not ones that justify a prison sentence or social punishment. A one night stand with a guy she felt looking back was creepier , grosser, or uglier than she'd like to think she would get with. A boy who had never interacted with her but made her feel insignificant or unimportant in some way. A man period, a disposable person who didn't matter. Even someone just a bit too perfect or too smug, who needed to be taken down a peg. This provided a unique combination that makes it particularly unlike any other crime. No "armed robbery" is an enjoyable experience in the right situation, or something to which the victim might originally be okay with and then change their mind. Same with murder, almost all cases of assault, theft, kidnapping, destruction, fraud, etc. Likelihood is, if we're being entirely honest, every regularly sexually active individual (of any gender) has been sexually assaulted or raped when you consider that the root negative that comes from those acts is largely just an emotional one- a response to unwanted sexual acts. Most people have had sex they shouldn't have. Sex where someone lied, or something wasn't all the way on board. Sex where they didn't want to but they felt like they had to, due to explicit coercion or otherwise, or on the opposite end, sex they didn't really consent to but ended up enjoying or being ok with (Is this rape? Cause it's pretty damn common for guys to experience imo). Almost everyone sexually active has had their dick or tits or abs or ass or pussy grabbed or fondled without consent, male or female. However, cases where individuals are brutally attacked, threatened with extreme physical violence if non-cooperative, and forcibly made to have sex, while still not incredibly uncommon, are far more rare and subsection of the population. These attacks too, are much easier to qualify and find evidence for, if reported quickly. Similarly, it's easier to tell when someone is lying about these as well, as a surprisingly lack of evidence will usually end up contradicting the claim of such extreme actions. They also don't face the same kind of social influences I mentioned earlier or you mentioned in your video. I think the issue around rape and false accusations relies much more heavily on resolving what people should think and do about the previous examples I mentioned around sex and SA, rather than lumping everything into the same category of severity as the latter case, the real criminal rape. Then our stats would be a lot clearer on what we're actually talking about and in what contexts, rather than making claims about something with a variance that could be anywhere from 2 - 50% (which in stats is enough to say that no one has any fucking clue if we're being honest). These stats have the same kind of reliability as the kind that say "people lie in 25% of the things they say," which when researched, you begin to see its not just a "credible" source saying 25%, but another "credible" source saying 45%, and another 15%, enough to make the whole thing pretty moot. You can't compare false rape accusations to false accusations of any other crime, because there's both justification for the unique unreliability of proving rape to allow more false claims as there is justification for it to limit false claims.
It's good to understand how complex this topic is and perhaps he could have made that more clear in the video. However it is obvious that in the society and the justice system at large rape victims still face negative attitudes that influence us all. It's pretty easy to even argue that these attitudes are behind why the weight and importance given to the issue of false allegation that the best evidence we have for points to it being a very small percentage. At the same time we have quite good research on how prevalent sexual violence is. That Brent Turvey's book is a good example of how rampant these attitudes still are. This view is also supported by the large amount of research around this topic unlike your anecdote about women in your college. I'm not sure of any research into the MeToo society and societal pressure towards women making false accusations and my anecdotal experience doesn't support that at all so you're going to have to do better to convince me. The video did a pretty damn good job for a UA-cam video to bring forward the problems of the Kanin study and its methodology and the problems of the other higher percent studies cited in Brent's embarrassing excuse of a book. It is true that the newer studies like the mad study (8%) and the British home office (2.5%) use stricter criteria to minimize the number of false positives. It is not just because of the researchers societal bias or pressure but because it is objectively a better methodological choice. Using strict criteria probably will exclude some reports that were false but doing the opposite and including reports that the investigators think were false but may have been true would have a lot more variability and could easily skew the results into overstating the prevalence of false accusations which would be a pretty unethical thing to do when there are already a lot of negative attitudes towards victims of rape. Also we live in the information age where people pick the study with the results and numbers they like and never actually read it. In the British Home Office study which is the study with most data points we have currently the original number of reports classified as false allegations by the police investigators was 8%. The researchers then used strict criteria and ended up at 2.5%. Doing that they probably did exclude some true false accusations but again this was a methodological choice to establish a base number of almost fully certainly false accusations. At the same time included in the 8% classified false by the police were f.e reports based solely on the personal judgements of the investigators (in violation of their own policies) so the 8% figure likely included also many allegations that may as well have been true and this is a great example why many of the newer studies focused on training the police in proper categorization of cases. Now I am of course with you in that you shouldn't conclude that it's definitely 2-8% but that is a way better guess than 40% if you possess any scientific literacy. The Kanin study did the opposite of the low percentage study in the worst possible way even adding the polygraph twist into it. All these things considered it's really hard to argue in good faith that the real percentage would be somewhere in the middle when the methodology of the studies with higher percentages is just that much worse. Of course there still lies a lot of uncertainty within these numbers since we obviously will never know what actually happened in all those cases and we will never know how many cases were unreported etc. but we don't really need to know all that in order to form an informed opinion on the matter either. Of course we would like to know more. I'm tired of writing this comment but I just can't help but touch on your amazing philosophical thoughts considering our 'socially constructed shock' with rape. Because it is a social construct with a lot of possible social implications and consequences I can imagine it might not be easy for everyone to just remove it from the social context that we all live in and operate in every day and I'm not even sure why you would need to do that although I do understand that it might help someone to cope. Our thoughts and language do not exist without social constructs. The emotional and even the bodily feelings you have after experiencing SA might be socially constituted but that doesn't mean you can detach yourself from them or that it would even be helpful. There is actually also a lot of variability to what an individual might consider rape even in within individuals just in the western world and how bad they think it is. A lot of victims also go on with their life without much trauma at all. The bias is really palpable in your comment. You criticize his views as lacking complexity and half of your comments are just rambling generalizations and anecdotes.
@@toivo4801 police in nearly all countries lack the resources to investigate if a false allegation has been made. In general when an allegation has been made police will only check if there is sufficient evidence to proceed and outside of rare cases police do not conduct follow-up investigations to confirm if a false allegation has been made. The 2-10% figure represents cases that can be confirmed as false but the reality is that the vast majority of cases never had any due diligence performed as to whether a false accusation was made. Therefore the real figure is almost certainly far higher and people who claim only 2% of cases are false are being disingenuous in the same way that people who conclude that the low rape prosecution rate means 90+% are false.
Do you / will you have the same passion for making a video about the social media people that actively try to find a way to exploit men and courage women to do so? You obviously love to confirm your own views and "clapback" against men in ways where you try to conceal your bias but you are not really succesfull with it. Who wouldn't like choosing a specific thing that they'd have huge amount of time on to create a new reality and claim authority on, right? For example, i find with very very ironic that you didn't mention Call of Duty Vanguard in your video that's called "Interactive Propaganda: The Historical Revisionism of First-Person Shooters" Vanguard is the worst offender there is, wonder why you didn't cover it. Your kind is the worst and most dangerous when it comes to sneaky propaganda.
@chronozeta tf do even you think your saying especially that last point, that a single game exists that may fit in with a huge video topic but wasn't included is some brand of failure, come on man you can do better then this nothing point
@@fartface8918 Its a perfectly valid point, go on his video and see how interested and invested he is regarding "propaganda" in video games and tell me if you genuinely believe that he isn't aware of what Vanguard has done and how its the biggest offender when it comes to changing the reality & bend it. His bias is obvious anyways, which can be seen on every single video. Views checks out.
If this refers to Jordan's study: No. 8% were recanted by the person filing the report, but the remaining 33% were subjectively judged by the police to have been "false" based on factors which, once again, overlap with many credible victims. If we're to take the 8% who directly recanted at face value (ignoring that false recantations in the face of scepticism do occur), that would still fall in the 2-10% statistic that's based on credible research cited in Lisak's paper.
@@waswatbut that's just taking that at face value. Victims recant their report for all kinds of reasons, it doesn't imply they were lying. Most will recant because they have decided they don't want the intrusion of an investigation. Others because they weren't believed. Some will recant due to social factors. In many cases it will be because the victim is a victim of domestic abuse and the rape was one part of that. They recant their account because they have returned to their abuser and cannot continue the investigation.
I'd say thats a reductive way to look at it given the evidence. The truth is the system and culture we have is counter productive in viewing and prosecuting rape cases, and that the most credible studies at best put the rate lower then many people claim.
Even if a man gets "falsely accused" it is still his fault. He should not have in anyway interacted with the woman who is accusing him of sexual harrassment. If he is being accused it did not come out of the blue. He may have said something that is inflammatory or perceived as sexual. When I was working back in Bashundhara Paper Mills HQ 2. I was strongly advised not to talk or even approach women for small talk. That included greetings such as good morning or hello. I abided by those rules. Even if any female co-worker greeted me I didn't even look at them and just ignored them. I later learned women were not told about this rule.
This is so fucking dumb. Men should behave like a souless robot because some women might think that the way they're greeted is a s.h? Fuck that. Why should i behave like there's something wrong with me and i should hide my basic emotions?
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AUTHOR'S NOTES/ CLARIFICATION:
When discussing the Kavanaugh case, I appear to have condensed the timeline of events, somewhat. I describe it as happening in a few weeks, but show footage of the hearings occurring months after. This was due to me confusing the publication of the accusations in September, with them first being disclosed in an anonymous letter to the senate. The facts of the investigation and its handling are, to my knowledge, accurate. I just wanted to clarify the timeline a little.
Hands down the best video I have seen discussing this topic in detail, it's a shame it doesn't have more views yet
The idea that sexual history has anything to do with rape is so weird to me it's like saying " since you eat a lot of cake you can't have eaten a poisoned cake slice"
Or the idea that having previously reported being raped discredits them, it's the same logic as thinking: if you were robbed once you can't be robbed again
It's such a grim thought, but as part of the widespread culture that blames victims, not strange at all.
The comparison you draw between getting robbed multiple times and false accusations is not valid because it ignores a crucial element: the intent behind false claims.
This is especially relevant in today's society, where accusations can sometimes lead to men being condemned without sufficient evidence, making it even more crucial to carefully evaluate the credibility of the accuser. When false claims are made, they not only destroy the lives of the accused but also undermine the credibility of true victims, making it harder for them to seek justice.
For example, in cases where individuals have a history of false reporting, such as the notorious case of Jemma Beale in the UK, it was shown that she fabricated multiple sexual assault allegations over several years, causing significant harm to innocent people. These instances are not about victim-shaming or discrediting real victims of sexual violence. They’re about addressing individuals who repeatedly make false claims, which undermines genuine cases and the trust placed in the legal system.
Thus, while every case must be examined on its own merits, ignoring a documented pattern of dishonesty isn't just dangerous, it's irresponsible. Criminal history can and should be a factor in assessing credibility, just as it would be in any other context where someone's behavior has previously led to harmful consequences
@@alta1r_894 "sexual history" and "documented pattern of dishonesty" ain't the same thing, one is well, your sexual history, he other would be documented in your LEGAl reccord, like if you steal someone's watch you know where they will look to know if it's a repeated crime? that's it! your Legal record! not your watch owning history
@@alta1r_894 did you watch the video? The whole point of it is specifically how it doesn't. I mean a rapist became a justice on the supreme fucking court. If it ruins your life then when does it?
That idea is even more insidious when you think about how rapists tend to prey on people who are more vulnerable
Apart from everything already mentioned, there’s the fact that the size of the taken samples is far too small to state anything about the ‘whole population’. That’s just basic statistics.
The direct answer to the title is we can't know. An accusation might be dropped by a complainant for a variety of reasons, or police might "no-crime" out of a belief a conviction is unlikely, or the prosecution may fail to prove _beyond reasonable doubt_ that the defendent did what they are accused of...
...but none of those things prove an accusation false. That isn't something the justice system does.
Social media accusations are another matter, because the evidential basis for those is whatever random people on the internet want it to be. Somebody might consider a rebuttal to an accusation proof the accusation was false but that holds weight only to them. You can't collect data from that.
Because the defendant can’t actually defend their case, then that still means that r*pe occurred. So basically you’re just pressuring the accused until they get a confession.
If someone's life is ruined it should be possible to start a new life. Instead we've designed everything to make that as difficult as possible
Yeah I love starting a new life after losing 10 years in jail. Losing all my friends and family, I love how easy it is to just get a new family and new life long friends and a new career. Losing my soulmate. Losing my scholarship that I needed to finish school, that’s so much fun, really. I love losing psychological stability, and getting trauma from prison rape and assault for being known as a sex offender even more! New contacts and network, new Alma mater- if I already lost 10 in jail why not go back to college and do it all of it over again what’s 4 years more? I would always want it to be as easy as possible to lose all that. That would be so much fun to lose because of something I didn’t do, and start a new life- think of the possibilities!
That's why we advocate against prisons @@asakoster8794
This was a really interesting video. You navigated a fraught topic and are excellent at conveying information. And you model critical thinking for your audience. I always get new insights into analysis, other people's perspectives, and how my own mind works from your videos. Thank you
Thanks so much for the kind feedback!
Too many people resort to lazy stereotypes based on gut instinct, and I hope that this video manages to make some people aware of that, and encourage them to change.
It's crazy how you've made a 48 minute video describing rape culture, and then the comments are full of people who are exactly what you are talking about, and criticizing you with your credible studies and nuanced thinking
Doesnt exist
@ what doesn’t?
Thank you for this excellent dissection of the issue and how overblown it is. I've heard people talk about these accusations like it's a big looming issue, but hadn't looked into the statistics and studies to gauge their credibility.
50% of guys say theyve been falsely accused at least once,are you victim blaming?
great video just discovered your channel and i am really happy
Very well researched on an important topic, thank you!
31:55 This is my favorite part lol. Great video, very comprehensive. I love your content!
Thank you so much for making this video!
Thank you so much for the support!
Thank you for this! I’ve wanted clear data proving the incredibly miniscule occurrence of false accusations
Honestly!
So many people love to vaguely gesture at "how common they are" without providing the hard data to back it up. So that's where I decided to step up and see for myself. And of course, it's nowhere near as common as people make it out to be.
@@datamale You literally present it from a Western point of view. Have you seen how apparent it is in India? A false rape accusation will get weaponized against the opposing party. Its such a shame based from the comments how its being downplayed.
@@123huggaableTHIS
I do HAVE data about india and facts about zape cases about india, don't know about the western world
Confirmation bias moment
Thank you for this. This is important work. I appreciate you doing it. You rekindle some hope
I'm so grateful for the kind words!
Thank you for your rigorous investigation of false accusations. One of the things that I think our society needs to change is the police officers who are assigned to investigate rape cases. If the police officer believes that 99% of rape accusations are false, then they are never going to do a thorough investigation. We need police who believe the person asserting that they were sexually assaulted is telling the truth.
Unfortunately, it seems that these policemen are often a reflection of the biases of the culture they grew up in. It's not simply a police issue, but an issue of the culture that fosters that attitude that they adopt.
The problem runs much deeper than the individual, it seems.
Police already heavily bias towards believing woman abusers. We really don't need more of that.
@@datamaleI think you’re drinking way too much
When there are reports of when female officers/detectives are the lead of such investigations reporting less than 20% are false after the reporting of 41-50% of cases being false, im inclined to believe the latter that the true statistics are higher than what's being reported.
I also like to mention that a lot of these cases that tend to be persued are due to forensic fraud seeking a conviction knowing that majority of country can not afford private attorneys.
Do you have any research for these claims or are you just in your feelings about it
@ insults will get you nowhere my friend.
Ask the Innocence Project how many men are wrongfully convicted on sex crimes, especially black men.
The Innocence Project wouldn’t have data on that, because that’s not what they do. They primarily focus on crimes like murder and have only freed around 250+ people, so any numbers that they have wouldn’t be enough data to properly get an idea about wrongful conviction rates regarding SA. Them attempting to help someone be proven innocent also doesn’t mean that they are, if they are able to free someone then clearly they were correct in doing so, but if not then you can’t really say.
Also the racism issue is its own problem entirely, and has a lot to do with the perceptions of minorities in the west as being dangerous and uncivil, as well as the insecurity of men in the majority groups about “their women” being “defiled”. It’s more racism than sexism.
@@TheNerevahkiin Something like 80% of the men freed by the Innocence Project are men wrongfully convicted of sex crimes.
My point is that wrongfully convicted men exist, and sexism is inextricable from racism. Most of the time when a race is demonized or portrayed as lesser it's specifically their *men* that are portrayed as the problem, not their women.
The existence of innocent people is not a refutation of this video. He does not claim they do not exist.
@@michaelzack7935 He's saying they don't matter, which is less stupid but more cruel.
@@terraneaux that is not it at all. He is saying that the number of false accusations are significantly lower, and not just that but the system and culture in which we engage with serious crimes like this is fundamentally flawed
I love the "I know I made this example up, but it really makes you think" arguments. The bible, lol.
"I know it's obviously fake, but the fact I fell for it definitely says something about the world we live in, and nothing about me, no sir, no way!"
Hypotheticals are important in conversations. You can't have intellectual discussions that explain concepts without them, because you will almost never have a readily available example available. What's even better is hypothetical backed with elements of actual events and real elements. If you want to say the Bible is an example of this, it really isn't either. Reading it and cross referencing a lot of its sources reveals a lot of logic formed around the concept of theology. It is more intellectually bankrupt to simply say "it's not happening before my eyes, therefore it must not exist".
The fact that an accusation could be false, and that an accusation by itself is already incredibly harmful to someone's wellbeing by itself, means every accusation should be scrutinized until there's no reasonable doubt left.
No, I will not instantly believe an accusation just because the accuser is a woman.
This is such an incredibly researched and important video, thank you for making it.
So... I have to ask. How are male victims of abusive female partners supposed to fit into this? Because we know that abusers lie, right? In fact, it's impossible for abusers to operate as abusers without lying. They socially isolate their victims, so there aren't witnesses and the victim has no one to present their truth to, and then the abuser ensures that they maintain exclusive control of the way the relationship is perceived by the rest of the world. And if at some point they are getting found out, their only defense at that point is to justify their aggression by framing it as self-defense or that the dynamic is justified by some past transgression by the victim. This is **universally** how abuse functions, regardless of the gender of abuser or victim.
I don't care to try and contest whether or not false accusations are rare. The conclusion you seem to be supporting is that women's accusations should be given the benefit of the doubt, at least, if not believed by default. Your argument at 19:30 pretty directly states that treating "unproven" as "unknown if true or not" is the wrong attitude. You do code the default gender of an accuser as woman multiple times throughout the video, condemn instances of people pushing back against #believewomen, and frame the discussion in your video description box as "A deep dive into the concept of "false accusations" against men".
So I'm not here to challenge you on your conclusions regarding the rarity of false accusations. I want to know how a man with an abusive female partner is supposed to navigate their situation in a world that views this issue the way you want it to? Are they supposed to just... trust that because it's rare that he shouldn't worry his abuser will use that power to punish and control him, or defend herself against his true accusation? Despite his abuser telling lies about him being his experience with that person? Does that really sound reasonable? If not, isn't it reasonable for men to want the threat of false accusations to be taken seriously?
wow this is a lot of assumptions and generalizations that I can't agree with without evidence. It seems like a cultural viewing of abuse just like the cultural view of rape. This problem you are bringing up is not what this video is about nor what it claims to be about. I don't know why you are accusing the creator of delegitimizing rape cases because he only talks about female rapes.
@@somuchsoul3041 I have no idea what you're saying? I don't accuse them of delegitimizing rape cases?
The argument Data Male is making at 19:30 is essentially that treating "unproven" as "unknown if true or not" is misguided and harmful.
Quote:
FreedomToons: "To assume that only 2-10% of rape accusations are false because only 2-10% are proven false would be as silly as assuming that only a small percentage of rape accusations are true because only a small percentage are proven to be true."
Data Male's response to FreedomToons: "But this is misguided. It relies on the presumption that false and true claims have an equally likely chance of occurring, which, as we've already covered, isn't true. Making the claim that 'We just don't know' does nothing but deny the very real historical instances where societal attitudes towards rape victims as liars or clout chasers or any other such harmful outlook has resulted in real and direct harm."
In other words, to treat "unproven" as "unknown if true or not" is in Data Male's view harmful to victims and ignorant of the data. Ergo accused should be treated as guilty until proven innocent, because as Data Male *directly states*, maintaining neutrality until a case is proven is wrong.
So let's run with that. I don't care to contest it. I want to know what male abuse victims are supposed to do in a world where people believe accusations as true by default.
You can agree that people who abuse their relationship partners lie, right? That shouldn't be controversial? They excuse controlling behaviors by framing their partner as incapable of managing things themselves (as my ex did). Or tell people their victims injuries are from falling down the stairs. So *regardless of whether false accusations are rare or not*, how is a man with an abusive partner supposed to protect himself if society gives them this lie for free? If society behaves as Data Male says it should and treats rape accusations as guilty until proven innocent, and a man finds himself with a woman who displays a pattern of lying to control him and protect herself from being discovered as an abuser, how is that man supposed to navigate the threat of being falsely accused? He can't win. If society believes her by default, then she has absolute power over him and there's nothing he can do.
All this attitude does in the name of preventing men from abusing women is give women free license to abuse men. And I would not interpret it this way if Data Male's language was not coded as male perpetrator/female victim, but it consistently is... as it always is with anybody who pushes this agenda, without exception.
This is easily the best deep dive I've seen into the topic of false rape accusation statistics! I hope it takes off so more people can be informed!
Thank you so much for the kind words! I wanted to cover ALL of the biggest studies I could find on this matter that still get cited today.
To be honest, I've probably still not even scratched the surface of what's out there, considering how widely discussed it is for such a small issue when compared to rape culture as an ongoing crisis.
meanwhile its actively biased and unscientific
What's really funny is that in the exact same issue of Archives of Sexual Behavior that Kanin's paper was published in, there's another paper about the prevalence of college men being sexually abused. But none of these MRAs are pointing to it and saying the men are lying.
The difference in these people's minds is that "men don't lie".
why would a guy lie about being raped?! he gains almost nothing and would likely ruin his rep if people found out he lied, as compared to female false accusers who almost dont ruin their reputation
@@datamale Men pay a much higher social cost to lie about this kind of thing than women do. Still, most women *don't* like about this, but enough women do to cause serious problems.
@@datamale men don't lie because admitting to being abused will only hurt their life, whether true or not.
@@gforce97 have you watched the video?
This is an excellent video. It needs more views. You need more subs. Engagement comment incoming.
Frank Stephen says that everyone would know at least one man whose been been falsely accused, a more accurate statement would be everyone knows at least one person (most likely a woman but not discounting male victims) who has been sexually assaulted/raped. We just don’t talk about it or report it because nothing gets done.
But that doesn’t fit with their narrative, does it.
That doesn't let him make cheap dunks on victims advocates for clout though, does it?
@@datamale Oh of course, definitely not, I wrote my comment in ‘wtf, that’s not how this works’ sort of response to his comments.
He was purposely misrepresenting facts and cherry picking (as you pointed out in the video). The whole thing made me want to throw my phone in frustration since it’s not uncommon for people out there to think like him and he was just so condescending.
I greatly enjoyed your video and hope we can start shifting away from the 40% figure. I think my first comment may have been poorly worded because Frank pissed me off so much (as a victim of SA, that knows many other victims of SA).
No stress, I figured as much!
It's just funny to lay out how lazy his thought process is, and intent for why he does the things he does.
or maybe, just maybe, I know both, and both are bad. Just a thought
The bias is palpable in this video. You don't give the papers you cite yourself as the "correct" ones nearly the same sense of scrutiny and close-evaluation as the ones you condemn. You assume all societal influence to be singularly directional and devoid of complexity. You can't cite societal influence as a direct causal factor in such a way that explains away certain results when convenient. For example, the idea that the societal pressure to recant is a constant in ballooning statistics is not verifiable in any of the direct studies you included. You may has well have proven in your cited sources that conservative people are more likely to believe accusations to be false while more progressive individuals will assume more accusations to be true- well no shit. Why did you not consider the societal pressures on the researchers themselves, who undoubtedly live/work in a more progressive environment that is naturally going to make the criteria for a certifiably false accusations much stricter, such that a great deal of actual false accusations are discarded? I'm not saying recanting is a reliable metric, or that Kanin was thorough enough, but at least he provided more atomized representations of false rape claims. I agree with your point that the impact of false accusations isn't a uniform constant of destruction, but again, who's to say societal pressure doesn't also push more women to use false claims outside court, where damage can be done outside the view of any of these studies? Who's to say in our metoo society that societal pressure isn't more likely to push women to falsely report period? My personal experience living on a college campus would suggest enough young women at least are quick to consider many things assault and have a type of social expectation that part of fitting in is having your own rape story. I can't speak for older women who would most likely skew the opposite way in how society pushes them. Furthermore, and something much overlooked is the fact that for a false accusation to be false in the first place, someone has to bring it forward to some force of power period. False accusation is not a subgroup in the pool of unclaimed rape, which means its entirety exists within the category of claimed rape. In my experience, a lot of real SA cases go under the table because they're never followed to court or any institution. On the other hand, false claims themselves are attracted to systems of power. Societal pressure post me-too may be more significant in influencing victims to never come to report at all, then dismissing them when they are actually pursuing justice, while dropping the case entirely is going to be a much greater sign that you are realizing the system isn't going to back a verifiably false accusation. If the courts don't work out, then a woman determined still has a ton of avenues to justice- institutions, workplaces, media, doxxing, etc, that is all supported as long as she has at least somewhat believability. To suggest societal pressure can explain away the 40% statistic but not the 2-10% statistic is just bad practice. And the UA-camr you criticize makes a good point with that too. Your rebuttal to his point that there is vaster range of uncertainty that goes both way, is actually to say "well I mean yes the logic checks out but rape is not inherently true/false" after using studies that are all inherently built of the idea of definably constraining rape accusations to true or false? 99% of rape cases are true or false- in any number of ways to define it. The accused would be found guilty by a court in a world if every moment was replayable, vs wouldn't be found guilty. They actually had sexual relation vs didn't. Consent was given vs wasn't. Any one of these is black and white, whether they are a complete metric for rape or not. Is it possible 60-70% of accusations that are recanted or never brought to court not rape? Yes, it's entirely possible even if perhaps not reasonable. Is it possible only 2% are? Certainly. The issue is that both sides are too quick to override the others' reasons for believing one data skew while blindly accepting their own. The reality is likely somewhere in the middle, as per usual, and I don't appreciate this video's attempt to appear academically principled while approaching its own analyses with such oversight. You concluded 2-10% because you wanted to- not because it's actually what is true. Same as people who jump to cite 40% before reading what they're citing and realizing it's a dinosaur. Guess what, people lie. And people rape. And rape itself is an act that is confusingly "he said, she said" because it is both capable of being an act of pain or pleasure, based on things that are incredibly difficult to provide evidence for, let alone condemn the destruction of someone's life for. At the same time, it's something that is seen (for a reason beyond me, a victim myself) as the worst possible thing a human can do to another, and as women receive a special sympathy from society and the legal systems in any case where they are a victim, it is therefore seen as one of the worst things possible. This makes it so on the one hand no one wants to fess up to it publicly, and on the other hand society wants to punish it as harshly as possible (when in reality, all rational people should be able to understand, stepping back and getting over your societally constructed shock, that most rape cases are not worse than bloody torture and are more like a brutal mugging where a group beats you up, strips you down and forces you to eat dog poop - risk of disease, gross feeling, humiliation, physical violence, lack of power, domination, psychological fear & damage, plus feeling of theft, over quickly but still feels like a long time). On the victim's side of things, a lot of things can be gained from coming forward with a false accusation - perhaps more than with a real accusation- as a crafted scenario can do exactly as Kanin suggests- create an alibi, get revenge, or attract positive social attention/belonging. What a lot of people don't realize is that false accusations that end up destructive rarely happen as if the accuser forgot to consider what the accused would go through. Most of the time, the accused is seen by the accuser as deserving it for one reason or another. A bf she'd grown resentful of for perhaps justifiable reasons but not ones that justify a prison sentence or social punishment. A one night stand with a guy she felt looking back was creepier , grosser, or uglier than she'd like to think she would get with. A boy who had never interacted with her but made her feel insignificant or unimportant in some way. A man period, a disposable person who didn't matter. Even someone just a bit too perfect or too smug, who needed to be taken down a peg. This provided a unique combination that makes it particularly unlike any other crime. No "armed robbery" is an enjoyable experience in the right situation, or something to which the victim might originally be okay with and then change their mind. Same with murder, almost all cases of assault, theft, kidnapping, destruction, fraud, etc. Likelihood is, if we're being entirely honest, every regularly sexually active individual (of any gender) has been sexually assaulted or raped when you consider that the root negative that comes from those acts is largely just an emotional one- a response to unwanted sexual acts. Most people have had sex they shouldn't have. Sex where someone lied, or something wasn't all the way on board. Sex where they didn't want to but they felt like they had to, due to explicit coercion or otherwise, or on the opposite end, sex they didn't really consent to but ended up enjoying or being ok with (Is this rape? Cause it's pretty damn common for guys to experience imo). Almost everyone sexually active has had their dick or tits or abs or ass or pussy grabbed or fondled without consent, male or female. However, cases where individuals are brutally attacked, threatened with extreme physical violence if non-cooperative, and forcibly made to have sex, while still not incredibly uncommon, are far more rare and subsection of the population. These attacks too, are much easier to qualify and find evidence for, if reported quickly. Similarly, it's easier to tell when someone is lying about these as well, as a surprisingly lack of evidence will usually end up contradicting the claim of such extreme actions. They also don't face the same kind of social influences I mentioned earlier or you mentioned in your video. I think the issue around rape and false accusations relies much more heavily on resolving what people should think and do about the previous examples I mentioned around sex and SA, rather than lumping everything into the same category of severity as the latter case, the real criminal rape. Then our stats would be a lot clearer on what we're actually talking about and in what contexts, rather than making claims about something with a variance that could be anywhere from 2 - 50% (which in stats is enough to say that no one has any fucking clue if we're being honest). These stats have the same kind of reliability as the kind that say "people lie in 25% of the things they say," which when researched, you begin to see its not just a "credible" source saying 25%, but another "credible" source saying 45%, and another 15%, enough to make the whole thing pretty moot. You can't compare false rape accusations to false accusations of any other crime, because there's both justification for the unique unreliability of proving rape to allow more false claims as there is justification for it to limit false claims.
Our little propagandist will never reply to this comment
@@chronozetawell did you appreciate it at least?
It's good to understand how complex this topic is and perhaps he could have made that more clear in the video. However it is obvious that in the society and the justice system at large rape victims still face negative attitudes that influence us all. It's pretty easy to even argue that these attitudes are behind why the weight and importance given to the issue of false allegation that the best evidence we have for points to it being a very small percentage. At the same time we have quite good research on how prevalent sexual violence is. That Brent Turvey's book is a good example of how rampant these attitudes still are. This view is also supported by the large amount of research around this topic unlike your anecdote about women in your college. I'm not sure of any research into the MeToo society and societal pressure towards women making false accusations and my anecdotal experience doesn't support that at all so you're going to have to do better to convince me.
The video did a pretty damn good job for a UA-cam video to bring forward the problems of the Kanin study and its methodology and the problems of the other higher percent studies cited in Brent's embarrassing excuse of a book. It is true that the newer studies like the mad study (8%) and the British home office (2.5%) use stricter criteria to minimize the number of false positives. It is not just because of the researchers societal bias or pressure but because it is objectively a better methodological choice. Using strict criteria probably will exclude some reports that were false but doing the opposite and including reports that the investigators think were false but may have been true would have a lot more variability and could easily skew the results into overstating the prevalence of false accusations which would be a pretty unethical thing to do when there are already a lot of negative attitudes towards victims of rape. Also we live in the information age where people pick the study with the results and numbers they like and never actually read it. In the British Home Office study which is the study with most data points we have currently the original number of reports classified as false allegations by the police investigators was 8%. The researchers then used strict criteria and ended up at 2.5%. Doing that they probably did exclude some true false accusations but again this was a methodological choice to establish a base number of almost fully certainly false accusations. At the same time included in the 8% classified false by the police were f.e reports based solely on the personal judgements of the investigators (in violation of their own policies) so the 8% figure likely included also many allegations that may as well have been true and this is a great example why many of the newer studies focused on training the police in proper categorization of cases. Now I am of course with you in that you shouldn't conclude that it's definitely 2-8% but that is a way better guess than 40% if you possess any scientific literacy. The Kanin study did the opposite of the low percentage study in the worst possible way even adding the polygraph twist into it. All these things considered it's really hard to argue in good faith that the real percentage would be somewhere in the middle when the methodology of the studies with higher percentages is just that much worse. Of course there still lies a lot of uncertainty within these numbers since we obviously will never know what actually happened in all those cases and we will never know how many cases were unreported etc. but we don't really need to know all that in order to form an informed opinion on the matter either. Of course we would like to know more.
I'm tired of writing this comment but I just can't help but touch on your amazing philosophical thoughts considering our 'socially constructed shock' with rape. Because it is a social construct with a lot of possible social implications and consequences I can imagine it might not be easy for everyone to just remove it from the social context that we all live in and operate in every day and I'm not even sure why you would need to do that although I do understand that it might help someone to cope. Our thoughts and language do not exist without social constructs. The emotional and even the bodily feelings you have after experiencing SA might be socially constituted but that doesn't mean you can detach yourself from them or that it would even be helpful. There is actually also a lot of variability to what an individual might consider rape even in within individuals just in the western world and how bad they think it is. A lot of victims also go on with their life without much trauma at all. The bias is really palpable in your comment. You criticize his views as lacking complexity and half of your comments are just rambling generalizations and anecdotes.
@@toivo4801 police in nearly all countries lack the resources to investigate if a false allegation has been made. In general when an allegation has been made police will only check if there is sufficient evidence to proceed and outside of rare cases police do not conduct follow-up investigations to confirm if a false allegation has been made. The 2-10% figure represents cases that can be confirmed as false but the reality is that the vast majority of cases never had any due diligence performed as to whether a false accusation was made. Therefore the real figure is almost certainly far higher and people who claim only 2% of cases are false are being disingenuous in the same way that people who conclude that the low rape prosecution rate means 90+% are false.
do you know how statistics work?
Someone must send this to my teacher 😅
Do you / will you have the same passion for making a video about the social media people that actively try to find a way to exploit men and courage women to do so? You obviously love to confirm your own views and "clapback" against men in ways where you try to conceal your bias but you are not really succesfull with it. Who wouldn't like choosing a specific thing that they'd have huge amount of time on to create a new reality and claim authority on, right? For example, i find with very very ironic that you didn't mention Call of Duty Vanguard in your video that's called "Interactive Propaganda: The Historical Revisionism of First-Person Shooters" Vanguard is the worst offender there is, wonder why you didn't cover it. Your kind is the worst and most dangerous when it comes to sneaky propaganda.
I didn't mention vanguard because I haven't played it.
I try not to speak on things I'm not somewhat informed on, I highly recommend giving it a go.
Agreed
@@datamale What a cope, i am sure you didn't
@chronozeta tf do even you think your saying especially that last point, that a single game exists that may fit in with a huge video topic but wasn't included is some brand of failure, come on man you can do better then this nothing point
@@fartface8918 Its a perfectly valid point, go on his video and see how interested and invested he is regarding "propaganda" in video games and tell me if you genuinely believe that he isn't aware of what Vanguard has done and how its the biggest offender when it comes to changing the reality & bend it. His bias is obvious anyways, which can be seen on every single video. Views checks out.
So the real statistic is somewhere between 8% to 33%
If this refers to Jordan's study: No.
8% were recanted by the person filing the report, but the remaining 33% were subjectively judged by the police to have been "false" based on factors which, once again, overlap with many credible victims.
If we're to take the 8% who directly recanted at face value (ignoring that false recantations in the face of scepticism do occur), that would still fall in the 2-10% statistic that's based on credible research cited in Lisak's paper.
Correct
Even if it's 8 percent, that's a frighteningly high statistic imo... Wow.
@@waswatbut that's just taking that at face value. Victims recant their report for all kinds of reasons, it doesn't imply they were lying. Most will recant because they have decided they don't want the intrusion of an investigation. Others because they weren't believed. Some will recant due to social factors. In many cases it will be because the victim is a victim of domestic abuse and the rape was one part of that. They recant their account because they have returned to their abuser and cannot continue the investigation.
I'd say thats a reductive way to look at it given the evidence. The truth is the system and culture we have is counter productive in viewing and prosecuting rape cases, and that the most credible studies at best put the rate lower then many people claim.
Even if a man gets "falsely accused" it is still his fault. He should not have in anyway interacted with the woman who is accusing him of sexual harrassment. If he is being accused it did not come out of the blue. He may have said something that is inflammatory or perceived as sexual. When I was working back in Bashundhara Paper Mills HQ 2. I was strongly advised not to talk or even approach women for small talk. That included greetings such as good morning or hello. I abided by those rules. Even if any female co-worker greeted me I didn't even look at them and just ignored them. I later learned women were not told about this rule.
Being cold to women to own the libs.
This is so fucking dumb. Men should behave like a souless robot because some women might think that the way they're greeted is a s.h? Fuck that. Why should i behave like there's something wrong with me and i should hide my basic emotions?
@@sorrynothing. Because women will falsely accuse you of sexual Harassment for looking them wrong.
@@mudnarchistwomen did it to themselves
bro what
It's very common now days