What Does This War Mean for the Future of Mankind and Today’s Civilization?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2023
- The Annual Meeting of Yalta European Strategy (YES) - “The Future Is Being Decided in Ukraine” - was held on September 8-9, 2023 in Kyiv.
Over 500 leading politicians, diplomats, businessmen, civil activists and experts from more than 20 countries took part in the conference organized by YES in partnership with the Victor Pinchuk Foundation.
Speeches:
1:37 Timothy Snyder, Yale University professor and specialist in the history of Eastern Europe
11:32 Francis Fukuyama, Stanford University Senior Fellow
17:58 Yaroslav Hrytsak, Doctor of Historical Sciences, Professor, Ukrainian Catholic University
25:26 Comfort Ero, CEO, President, International Crisis Group.
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Oh I guess History didn't end after all.
Bro did not get to the last chapter
I imagine you think that was an original and an intelligent thought. It was not.
Snyder's book Bloodlands has so much history in it it overwhelmed me and left me feeling very depressed like when someone close to you just died.
It’s interesting how you hear people say the war “we’re” having in Ukraine - because “we’re” ALL beginning to realize how connected we truly are.
Those lines on a map are completely irrelevant to Earth.
Sí. If you saw the world from space or even very high altitude it's even more profound
Except that they are not, because civilizations exist, and they have militaries, and people give their lives for those "lines". So yeah.. not irrelevant.
Actually we are having wars all around the globe because the US does not accept to loose its hegemonic power.
That was THEIR choice. NOT others. Everyone was forced into existence without their consent by breeders. Antinatalist fact. Therefore, NOBODY owes the status quo anything. NOBODY is entitled to the status quo or pre-existing laws or nations. They CAN and SHOULD instead CHOOSE TO FIGHT to maximize JUSTICE: equalization of power and labor and income. whether within a nation or across pre-existing borders.@@xiaodaigu5659
What is prof. Snider saying is - there would be no philosophy ergo science if not Scytians ergo Ukraine. I'm shattered
You can´t deny the importance of black sea grain for the development of Greek civilisation....
@@urviechalex9963 a wonderfull pagan civilisation 😑😑😑😑😑
Do you know The First Commandmen of Moses *(Musa a.s)
This is the best of our thinking that has got us to where we are today.
Scarcely anthing more hopeless.
With an idiot like Snyder as our new intellectual hero.@@absoluterefusal
Far from the best. Pretty superficial talk, intertwined with a lot of political bias. If this is what our politicians use as expert analysis, we are in big trouble.
Why Putin launched the war should also be why NATO went up to the border of Russia
Dorko--NATO and your RuZZia already had a common border in Poland and in the Baltic states.
So NATO forced the super power RuZZia to attack Georgia, Ukraine, and Syria?
Did NATO went up the border before Puchin's annexation in 2014? On the level of who did/came first is a matter of who could last laugh. Let's see. 1 vs 40 countries. lol.
The NATO argument is an invention by Putin to convince Russian people. NATO is not a threat to Russia, but a threat to Russian expansion.
NATO did not go "up to the border of Russia". There were free independent, democratic, sovereign countries that applied, according to pre established rules, to join NATO; thus Moscow had no legitimate right to oppose that international process. Putin has no right to built a "sanitary cordon" beyond Russia´s borders.
Tired of that BS, Putin knows that NATO is no threat, that´s why he recently withdrew troops from the Norwegian and Finnish border. By annexing Ukraine he would move to the NATO border. Apart from that, what are nuclear weapons for? Russia cannot be attacked.
Ооооооуууу Тімоті неймовірний!!!!
Дякую за 🍉 ))) я впевнена його оцінять)
Very much appreciate the introduction to Ms Ero. Her remarks were refreshingly clear and honest. Leaders must take responsibility for their obvious failures. Too many lofty speeches and awards. Too much hypocrisy and corruption. Leaders should be judged by actions-especially during crises.
best explanation by Jeffrey Sachs: ua-cam.com/video/YUifh-Wud4g/v-deo.html
Always remembering that in a democracy, correct action may be constrained by how informed/ educated by their voters. And understand, leaders are not Gods.
The leaders of the west are not in charge though the real rulers of the west are the unelected %1.
Yes, without naming names, Ms Ero pointed to the elephant in the room. Putin did not wake up one day and decided to invade Ukraine territory out of the blue. Note how at no time during the event was any mention made of NATO and NATO's waves of expansion post-Cold War (1998; 2004) despite repeated Russian pleads. George W Bush then forced NATO to promise membership to Ukraine in 2008 despite being told by Germany and France that this was a reckless, irresponsible move that could trigger a Russian military response; even the US ambassador to Russia warned the White House about Ukraine being the ultimate red line with his famous message "Nyet means nyet". No mention of any of these contextual facts. We shall never learn from our historical mistakes if we keep whitewashing them again and again.
@@vincentgarcia-delgado6265 Putin is responsible for his actions. He is a war criminal and terrorist. Western appeasement if his terror in Chechnya, Syria, Georgia and Ukraine was all in plain sight. He even murdered citizens on European territories!! Greedy leaders in the West look the other way hoping economic incentives would keep him in check. They severely miscalculated and the consequences are tragic. No country that shares a border with Russia trusts them for good reason. NATO has emerged stronger and more focused. Russia is a threat to World peace.
Some people die in war , some people make money from those people instead of being those people . O_O
I really appreciate this. I too (at age 70) never imagined I would be so tightly attentive to the urgency to stop such dark aggression in its tracks.
Too few views.
I have to say; those sitting in that room are facing close at hand an intensity that would rattle many.
@@SkyeRangerNickThere is only one view. There is one aggressor, and one victim. The aggressor is hellbent on destroying the victim, including the Ukrainian breadbasket of the world that supplies food to Africa, Asia, and to a lesser degree, the West.
an American Anglo talking about Russia,😂😂😂
Ahh, all the neocons/ cold warriors/ hack historians like Snyder and Fukuyama. They really know their stuff. I obviously turn to these guys when i want to understand today's covilization and the future of mankind.
Sorry they don’t fit into your narrative, Ivan.
@@CollectiveDefence They really don't. These dilettantes would not recognise reality even if it hit them In their faces. They only have their own perspective of delusions of grandeaur and ideological ambitions. Nothing more. Silliness, pure Silliness, mr collaborator.
Serving as I did during the cold war as part of the British Army Of The Rhine one of the war scenarios frequently played out in military exercises in the filed and in the war rooms was the Soviets preparing to invade westwards having no other option to combatting the Soviet starvation cause by the failure of crops in Ukraine.
Wheat prices dropped last week for only one reason, a bumper wheat crop in Russia. Any bets your leaders were clueless?
@@bunsw2070 Well good for you. Finally Russia gets to do something right. No need to invade anybody now then so just pack up and go home and make burger buns to your heart's content. No, seriousy just go home and enjoye it. Nobdoy needs you anywhere else in the war and maybe you can now help to feed some of those countries which have gone hungry as a result of what your armed farces have attempted to do this last year.
@@bunsw2070 Was that before or after Russia stole Ukraine's grain?
@@IMSiegfried Wasn't it Europe that stole it?
Tim Snyder is brilliant. I watch everything he makes or contributes to.
"Never mind international relations, or international peace, never mind border security, never mind if a hostile superpower wants to build a missile battery aimed at your capital. We buy grain from them, and that makes this war we totally didnt instigate justified, and even more than that, its imperative that we win this."
i will never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of people who consider themselves smart.
Me too! He is a genius, a modern sage
He's the opposite of brilliant. A travesty of academic historian.
"European Union is the world's most boring miracle."
I agree!
You have to realize, that the russian/chinese influence on this boring miracle EU is strong but invisible for most. Since Angela Merkel's 16 years of EU Governance (!!) the EU has gradually turned away from the West and is now struggling to reposition itself. It is a petty that this is not addressed in public with the right priority. We got to be careful, that Ukraine war dos not distract us from a parallel vicious developments. The Art of War by Sun Tzu is executed by China & Russia with an already visible very negative result of instability and disagreement in Europe.
Let's keep it boring!
Europe's next conflagration is alight. The EU lit the fuse that DC convinced them was the candle of democracy....
Boring bcz more mature…this civilization began in Europe thanks to Old Greece and Roman empire. Ukraine as food basket in the history of this civilization does not concern the rest of the world. On,y few non european countries consume ukrainian grains..the ones whose flour constitutes part of their main staple food…if this western civilization collapse the substance farming system in africa will be expanded to feed africa while for europe it s a new beginning…the panel composition shows well the desired objective of the message..Russia is a danger for the civilization.. ukraine must win the war to save western civilization
You call the EU a miracle i call it COWARDS CLUB, all the EU is interested in the rape and pillage of sovereign rights which then allow juihadis into the country to infiltrate and take over local government's.
The EU stand`s for ISIS
I want to hear our ideology. I want to hear that our idea is to defeat invasion to take territory, by Russia or Israel or the US or anyone, unless authorized by the UN.
The UN have been shamefully exposed as central in child trafficking operations for the USA Luciferians, recently in Ukraine.
With a Putin veto?
To stop that invasion, countries should determine whether they should have Nukes to stop being invaded because those days when they used the gun and Bible to kill poor Black native people and regarded them as savages in the meantime the biggest savages were the Europeans. Forget about the Greeks. The world needs to change from democracy to Socialist societies where they live from their resources. This way, the world can be saved from the industrial world and live the African and indigenous people way off life. Look how the Blacks are killing each other just to protect the resources for foreign ownership. Getting bribed from under the table, education is a must throughout Africa. All those puppets have to be removed and then create more honest politicians to govern Africa. UBUNTU
It's not an invasion. It's an incursion to combat a war on eastern Ukraine civilians by the west in the name of "Spreading Democracy." The UN's Duty to Protect law requires Russia to respond to the relentless killing of civilians.
The ideologies of the west is about power, greed, money, natural resources, global hegemony, rules base orders, slavery, LBGTQ...
Are we talking about maintaining the garden against jungle outside
Great panel, a little simplistic about the ancient world: Egypt & Mesopotamia created the institutions & technologies that made later Greece possible
best explanation by Jeffrey Sachs: ua-cam.com/video/YUifh-Wud4g/v-deo.html
Yes, ancient Egypt is well-known for its deep-rooted "Democratic values"...
@@Evan490BC it dosen't matter if they had "democratic values" . They made the base Institutions and social systems which greek democracy is later build upon .
@@TheGesox Definitely not. Where do you get your sources from? Those were autocratic systems, ruled by a king and his court, no resemblance to the Ancient Greek Democracy.
What he is saying is that this exact constellation of institutions - which, as you pointed out, takes inspiration from a thousand different cultural and civilisational aspects of the huge. diverse and highly interconnected ancient Mediterranean and Middle Eastern world - would not have been possible without the agricultural foundation of the farmlands on the northern shores of the Black Sea. I knew that there were Greek colonies in the area, but I had no idea that they were of such importance. Thus the important part of the issue wasn't in what corner of the world such institutions were originally invented and implemented, and thus there wouldn't really be any reason to muddle the discussion by expanding on that aspect.
Professor Snyder has amazingly insightful observations! His analysis summarizes the importance of Ukraine, and critical reasons it has suffered so much from invaders.
Professor is clown. Where was his intellect when usa was killing millions of Iraqi,Syrians,Koreans etc etc
@@scpython1 you must not have listened to the debate, the panel and all following panels are about Ukraine so why would they diverge from the topic? Why be invited to speak about Ukraine but then talk about Palestine? Would be like going to a panel on football and then talking about the Olympics. However, they DID mention other conflicts, and how the war in Ukraine is adversely affecting Africa, and other conflicts (like Ethiopia) were being ignored.
Also, not to be ruthless on this point but, the Wars in Ethiopia and Ukraine have killed more people than all the conflicts you have mentioned some several times over and their secondary impacts will likely kill even more people then have died directly. It irritates me when Palestine and Syria are brought up, (as significant as they may be regionally) yet more people have died in Ukraine's war since February 2022, then have died in the entirety of the Arab-Israeli wars, combined a few times over!!!! The significance of Ukraine, dwarfs these earlier conflicts, it dwarfs the Iraq war. The most similar conflict in terms of ferocity was Iran-Iraq, but in terms of its global impact, it dwarfs them all.
@@scpython1 This discussion is about Russian aggression of Ukraine. They might have talked about other wars elsewhere.
@@scpython1 You don't know what it is. The title of the conference is actually "The Future is Being Decided in Ukraine".
@@scpython1you mentioned civil conflicts, not the wars and of scale that goes in no comparison with the biggest war since ww2. Look at the losses, you selfish prick. Also look at the topic of the discussion, it's not middle east or south east asia civil wars. If you somehow involve skin color in this, it is you who are racist, simple as.
P.S. At the same time I'm happy you can't realize what hell we have to live through. Such things should not be real. But hey, as soon as this war will be officially put in the same box with forgotten small civil conflicts while it is still going, you will most probabltly have to live through this hell too.
Who is the hisorian "Aleksandriano" mentioned at 46:00?
В 2017 году я спросил у профессора Снайдера, какое влияние оказал на текущую ситуацию "Конец истории" Френсиса Фукуямы. Профессор ответил, что влияние было негативное, так как он успокоил людей и побудил их отказаться от борьбы. Теперь Пинчук сажает Снайдера рядом с Фукуямой, который в каком-то смысле несет ответственность за то, что сейчас происходит в Украине. Если так дальше пойдет, то кого еще рядом со Снайдером посадит Пинчук? Абрамовича? Соловьева? Может, самого Путина?
Чикатило? Гитлера? Чингисхана?
It is so true what your comment states that Fukuyama could not refrain from letting a “lapsus linguae” escape: “If Ukraine wins this war …”
Учитывая что они все ученые теоретики то принимать информацию как Евангелие от них не стоит. Чисто академический разбор
@@Tgshgkgh Теория и практика не являются полностью изолированными друг от друга областями. Ученые-теоретики определяют образ мышления, которым пользуются обыкновенные люди. Об этом и говорил профессор Снайдер, отвечая на мой вопрос. "Конец истории" Фрэнсиса Фукуямы распространил идею о том, что история человечества имеет свои закономерности, независимые от самих людей. Фукуяма использовал ту же самую марксистскую идею о неизбежной победе коммунизма, только поменял коммунизм на либерализм.
This is a tribalist fight among crazy whites, whose brains have been washed out by all these critical theories and fake pink unicorn preachings and rainbow flags, while their gestapo has been sitting in news redactions and moral bureaus of social media all the time.
They are absolutely chauvinistic and blind about what is going on in 85 percent of mankind. They think it does not matter when all those Africans and Indians and everyone suffer from their mad tribalism, they believe it is enough to blame the Russians for everything.
Comfort Ero was only speaker talking about peaceful solution, made everybody uncomfortable, Ero was only speaker mentioning human casualties! Finally someone making sense in this one sided “debate”
So what was her peaceful solution?
This wasn't a debate by any stretch of the imagination. I agree, Comfort Ero was the only speaker who tried to touch on the grievances of the non-Western world but she had to walk on eggshells in fier not being devouwered. This panel resembled a court of the Holy Inquisition.
@@hollosaroka Yes, the Kremlin courts are much more "efficient"
These were the bits I skipped.
“…millions of people are likely to die in Asia and Africa…”
… who have we become when we no longer gasps - out loud - at such numbers?
That's why most of the grain in the deal negotiated with Russia during the war actually went to EUROPE (flooding the Polish market and banned by the same) AND NOT TO AFRICA or ASIA!!!!
These swine share the same beliefs as Nazis.
Those millions can take up arms and start defending themselves like Ukrainians do, why won’t they? The minute Europe gave freedom to former colonies, Africans couldn’t come up with anything better than to start colonizing each other, selling themselves to next overlord domestic or foreign- such as prigozhin. If you are not willing to defend your own freedom, who do you think will do it for you? Cry me a river.
Listened until 3:30 and That's it. I RECOMMEND DOING SO
Oh, man, the pundits started to carry watermelons around, I am dying here😂
Thank you for helping articulate something that has been very difficult for me to grasp and that is the extent of just how insidious this all is.
best explanation by Jeffrey Sachs: ua-cam.com/video/YUifh-Wud4g/v-deo.html
This is such a sharp insight into Russian (leadership) psychology. I have seen this play out on the personal level, business level and now we see it on the global stage. It's such a shame that the Russians have been bludgeoned into feeling there is no hope, everything is doomed to fail, everyone else is out to get you.
and how come USA doesnt feel the same way ? they need to invade countries thousands of KM's away in order to project "national security" ....
Russia has suffered three massive invasions by Western powers in the past few hundred years (Napoleon, the Western Allies after the Revolution, and Hitler in WWII). The corridor through which these invasions were launched was the territory called 'Ukraine' which literally means 'Borderland' in Russian. The current crisis was precipitated by the American strategy of bringing Ukraine into the NATO alliance as a Western military and missile base right on Russia's western border. Russia quite rightly sees this as an existential threat. That's not paranoia, it's self-preservation based on their history. Imagine if Russia stationed troops and missiles on the Mexican border with the USA. This is a proxy war between America and Russia. America is the guilty party here.
@@bryanpersaud9947well done. The Kremlin will have your cheque in the mail tomorrow. (btw, have you heard of a country called Estonia, which directly borders Russia and has been a full member of NATO since 2004?)
@@bbdj2779 Yes - Kremlin simplistic talking point, bottom of the class, must do better. Lots of NATO bordering Russia - no Russian troops there, he knows the West is not crazy - unlike Vlad, who hated anti-corruption showing his up!
@@bbdj2779 Typical response from western MSM-trained clapping seals. Don't challenge the facts, malign the messenger. Anyone who challenges the bogus Western narrative must be a Russian agent. I am simply pointing out historical FACTS which people like you simply ignore. I do in fact know this. Do you realize that the expansion of NATO to the borders of Russia in direct contravention of solemn treaties made to Russia after the fall of the USSR is the very reason this conflict started? Russia repeatedly warned the West this was unacceptable to them and was clearly provocative. Russia pointed to these agreements but did nothing while 3 successive waves of expansion occurred in the early 2000's. America tried it in Georgia and failed. Ukraine they warned was the red line. America ignored them again. America instigated the Coup in Ukraine in 2014. The discussions between the Asst. Secretary of State and the Ambassador to Ukraine about installing a puppet government were intercepted and are part of the public record available on the Internet. Let me ask you a question; which country in the world was it that invaded Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Yugoslavia, Iraq (twice!), the utter destruction of Libya, Afghanistan (20 years of pointless bloodshed), Syria, is destabilizing and calling for 'regime change' in Venezuela and other Latin American countries, constantly threatening war with Iran, waving their sabre at China, unilaterally sanctions half the world if they don't tow the American line? Is it Russia? America is an empire in decline and this panel knows it.
51:12 Such of "out of box" way of expressing something and it is so true from many angle. As the war is very sad and there are so many suffering from it, it even able to carry some humor. There is black humor too.
52:10 this miracle only works when we respect laws and have consequences for those who exploit any kind of relationships that must be done with mutual respect to each other and to the law. Building trust only works when all of us understand responsibility and the importance of law.
A distorted way to see the reality. Or a distortion of the reality...
“I'm not going to be the first American president to lose a war," how Nixon said. Saving face is always an important part of wars.
When does Biden concedes Ukraine cannot retake all its territory back?
He was right. He didn't lose a war. He got on a helicopter and FLEW AWAY!
@@TheFuck6666at least quote who you're ripping off
Do we always have to deal with war, because we still don't know better?!
Yes, unfortunately.
This war already echoes into the future, with all the negativity it carries with.
A heavy militarised world, where more and more player wanted a bigger piece of the cake, doesn't make our life safer and certainly doesn't secure our future. Besides all the other negative directions we're going carelessly, war is the most inhuman, destructive and brutal.
"The mother of all wars" lays behind AND before us, if we don't change our behaviour and so the direction.
We humans are mastering our extinction, knowingly, helpless, dictated, in full consciousness!
And "who" cares how and when we will?
Not even ourselves!?
It's like Carl Jung said; forget all this "progress", if we don't first fix our psyche, it's all for naught. Jung is considered one of the most influential thinkers in modern times, but this, his most important and imploring message was largely ignored. The field of psychology lies with a broken back and has pretty much unsubscribed from this question, focusing almost exclusively on making money and propping people up to mindless functionality regardless of circumstance and holistic thought.
True, they love exploiting countries for their resources. Soon, they will be struggling because they won't get cheap child labour force mining the resources in Africa. Plus, Africa should produce its own vegetables and industries. Education is on the rise and it's a nightmare for all those European countries. 😢
Humans started as cannibals and now seems will end as the same......Humans had to change for their very survival....did not........
Or we (the elite) know better than you and will continue to wage war as we have for thousands of years
This is the influence of psychiatric illnesses the simplest of which to understand may be sociopathy (DSM5): hatred of the other, permanent violence, incessant justification (Fabius, Rothschild, Netanyahu...)
The reason we still have war is because war makes some people rich. If all rich people were a casualty of war we would put an end to wars once and for all. So I propose that when a leader starts a war he must lose an arm or a leg. Or he has to give up his wealth and personal property. All wealthy people investing in any company behind weapons should lose a limb. That's how we end this problem of endless wars.
I don't want to live in a world where they dress animals like people.
Decades ago I heard a story about a group of people who had a unique idea
on how to ensure that the American president better appreciated
the violence that he would unleash if he decided to launch nuclear weapons.
Their idea was that the nuclear codes would be put in a small container
which would be surgically implanted in a man's chest and attached to the man's heart.
Then if at any time the president wanted to fire nuclear weapons to destroy enemy cities
he would need to first cut into the man's chest and rip his heart out thus killing the man.
Apparently when this idea was suggested a representative of the office of the president
said that the idea was unthinkable because the president could never do anything so barbaric.
Though the representative didn't try to claim that the president would never ever
wipe out the civilian population of a city with a nuclear weapon.
"If you live in a world of dinosaurs, and you want to survive, you had better become a dinosaur."
That's simply ridiculous...SO many creatures outlived the dinosaurs. ..Quite a hopeless statement by Yaroslav Hrytsak, ..Is this the best future he can imagine?
if you live in a world of nukes best if you believe in nukes , if you live in a world of biological weapons best to believe in germs , if you live in a world with space stations able to drop rods of heavy metal from orbit best to believe in gravity ----
it must be nice being you, as stupidity is bliss
Dinosaurs are fake
Nukes are fake
Germs are fake
Gravity is fake
we need a big man in the sky, like Trump or Putin but with even moor magic powers
Thanks for deep and broad conversation.
Timothy Snider is amazing 👏. Such deep knowledgeable analysis of whole situation. Ukraine is such brave to hold crazy russians from Europe by own lives.
Of course! Had it not been for the brave Ukrainians, all those fat and peace-loving German and Belgian bourgeois would have gladly surrendered to the Russian hordes. And down would go all of Liberal Europe! 😳
Seems they're blamed when they interfere and especially when they don't. From now on😅....do they have the right to?
I don't think any world citizens like to see Any other population suffer. What can we collectively do?
@scpython1You do have a point. I am a European and see this as clearly as you do for I lived and reported in Africa for over 30 years. It is not that we don’t care, it is that people at large don’t care. Why don’t we hear African voices clamouring what African regimes are inflicting on their own population or neighbours? While our ancestors were guilty of slavery, all of them, not just Europeans, isn’t it time all people on this planet take care of their own advocacy? Why should Timothy Snyder speak about African wars, or wars on Africa, of which he knows so little? He did not study Central / Eastern Europe because of this war. It has been more than 30 years. I appreciate your nuanced view and share your frustration. But is it not that a people, whichever, tend to sympathise with a people that resemble them? Sincerely.
have you ever searched “jeffrey sachs” ?
@@esr243 because white supremacist like you wouldn't care.
Why did you suddenly care about this care, NATO bot? where were you when the people in Donbass were being shelled by the Ukranian government since 2014? more than 14 k people had died due to the conflict in Donbass before Russia decided to interfere, where were you, NATO boy? where were you when ethnic Russian Ukranians were killed in the May 2014, Odessa Massacre?
you are just a hypocrite .. you have no values ..
It means that anything relying on big infrastructure- like oil, coal etc, is finished. All that is needed is one opposition capable of gluing together kajak bombs. All it takes now, is one or two attacks of this kind, and a shareholder run from the industry.
How do we win and Russia losses? By logistics on the battle field and cold geopolitics? Can someone please ask how we win without getting into nuclear war with Russia? Why are we so casual about war between nuclear powers?
Victory on the conventional battlefield is the only way to assure that Russia and other nuclear armed two-bit dictators know that nuclear blackmail will never be tolerated. Failure to stop Putin now means much more dangerous nuclear proliferation in the future. Putin's failed ploy in Ukraine risks discontinuation of the current Russian system, but if Russians overthrow Putin many Russian elites will still retain many financial advantages. That is certainly better for them than nuclear annihilation. That is why those that are necessary in order to carry out a nuclear attack will not follow such an order if per chance Putin loses his mind and tries to order such an attack.
It would be very good for this man to read about the things he is speaking about (Ukraine and Russian aggression) what far more respected Americans (Jeffrey Sachs or Noam Chomsky) were telling the world last 8 years
"This man" makes sense if he's next to you and we can see him.
Chomsky doesn´t have a clue about history...
Professor Timothy Snyder, thank you for your amazing work that you do to tell the world truth about Ukraine ❤❤❤
Correction, ee is a Russophobic propagandist, academic fraud, and sel hating Jew.
Snyder is a Conformist Historian
I never imagined in my life that I will going to live historic moments the real change social , economic, industrial , energetic, this maybe one of the great movements mankind assist since our existence. In next year we can be facing extinction or evolution so now , no one simple no one can give us a step for the next 5 years
have you ever searched “jeffrey sachs” ?
The lady from the Crisis Group was brilliant, to the point and clear. The man who talked about the end of civilization was so simplistic and a sixth finger
haha
he got all his facts wrong as well clueless!
Very interesting panel. Thank you very much!
My only negative comment is that there was no time allotted for questions from the audience.
that guy at the start needs to leave the mushrooms alone !
Can't wait for the next one lol
The idea that there wouldn't be smart phones if the Persian empire had won and that that's one way to think of modern civilization says a lot about the limitations of these people's knowledge and imagination. I agree whole heartedly about Russia but it's this kind of eurocentric, Judeo-Christian centric conception of civilization that doesn't allow the west to grow. It can't get past itself. It is stunted. In fact it is the support of such stunted egos that gives validation to anyone who isnt sure why Ukraine should be supported. They are exactly what Putin is for the East, the puppeteers of Western hegemony. Of course they say yes to war, that's how those on top now stay on top.
Well it looks like we spotted the persian in the chat😂. But to play devils advocate - modern democracy is a refined version of the greek democracy.
If the greeks would have lost we may never have had access to the greek philosophy that inspired all of the revolutions that created all of the democracies of the last 3 centuries. We also know that democracies are by far the most innovative, efficient and productive.
I hope that helped
Whaat, you pale face? You re saying that Vladimir Putin is an instrument chosen by China just in ordet to confront the West? How creative.
@@thedevilsadvocate886 1. Nope, I'm not Persian. And again, you demonstrate limited knowledge and bias so you're absolutely helping.
A kiwi's view. Thanks to the panel members and the organisers of this presentation. Their lucid and realistic appraisals gives me more hope that humanity will arise above bloody conflicts and attend to the real and pressing problems we face. Kia kaha - stay resolute, remain strong
Greetings to the other edge of the world from Western-Europe.
@@wernertognetti5956 Thanks. Being remote is a benefit, but peace and the chance to live a healthy and meaningful life should be for all humanity wherever they live.
kiwis should stop launching satellites for over horizon targeting The US paid $14billion for russian ,imports in 2022 , down from the $29 billion in 2021 ;and no where near the $34 billion 2011 , though 2013 wasn't bad at $27b If market forces and policy settings define civilization ,the war is lost ,A Grande Truce in the UNSC Now ,for peace sake @@A_kiwis_view
@@A_kiwis_view
NZ has peace & it is unlikely to ever be attacked. Just too far away & with minimal strategic importance.
I lived there for many years but I believe it's a very different country now.
With the rise of social media it has been infected with the same conspiracies as the rest of us.
Also the shortage of housing, a rising cost of living & inequality affecting it as much as other developed nations.
Still, a lovely small nation. Many Kiwis don't realise just how lucky they were to be spared the terrible human cost of Covid that ravaged much of the rest of the world.
Greetings from NL
Ha ha ha 😂!
Great respect for him and his ideas, and books
The definition of civilization (surviving a broken leg) is by Margaret Mead, not Margaret MacMillan, the author of "War: How Conflict Shaped Us".
1. No attempt to explain the context and causes of this war nor to articulate the objectives of the many participants. How then can you discuss what "winning" looks like or possible outcomes?
2. Certainly Ukraine is a major exporter of food, but no mention that Russia is a bigger exporter of not just food but fertiliser and energy as well.
These are just a couple of issues I had with this limited and partisan discussion.
They mentioned the causes of the war. Are you talking about causes ru propaganda spreads? Then you are obviously wrong here.
@@FreeWorld288 TBH I do not recall all that was said and only got to the 55 minute mark before giving up.
However, on 6th Sept. 2023 NATO Secretary Genaral Jens Stoltenberg explained the main reason for the invasion:
"So he [Putin] went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders." That IMO is about the sum of it.
@@Kavala76 it's ru propaganda when taken our of context. Putler sent a paper for NATO to sign where he wanted eastern and central countries out of nato, or to become a second class member with no nato equipment on their territories. Stolenberg says, of course we didn't sign it.
Read here, Putler's paper demanded what would destroy Europe, the NATO and our living. It's blackmail.
"Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders. He has got the exact opposite. He has got more NATO presence in eastern part of the Alliance and he has also seen that Finland has already joined the Alliance and Sweden will soon be a full member. Because at Vilnius Summit, we agreed a statement where it was clearly expressed how Sweden will do more, follow up the agreement we had in Madrid on fighting terrorism, and also address issues related to export of military equipment, and then Türkiye made it clear that they will ratify as soon as possible."
When Putler was declaring war in his sick speech, he did not mention nato at all. He talked about "historical" reasons and denied Ukraine's right to exist.
@@Kavala76 But the context was Stoltenberg's explicit mention, just a few seconds before, of a draft treaty received from the Kremlin a few months prior to the Feb 2022 invasion. This Kremlin draft [so Stoltenberg had just stated] contained a suggested promise of no more NATO enlargement, as a precondition for Russian forces not to invade Ukraine. In this context it is an unreasonable stretch to interpret Stoltenberg's words -- that you have quoted -- as a statement of Stoltenberg's *actual beliefs* about Putin's *actual reasons* (rather than only Putin's stated pretext) for invading. The former interpretation (that this was Putin's real reason to invade) may be your opinion, but I don't think you can assert that it is also Stoltenberg's opinion, or even Stoltenberg's implication.
@@davidwright5094 Allow me to repectfully offer you further evidence to support my case, that NATO enlargement was the main reason for this conflict, from years earlier:
In Feb. 2008 William Burns (currently Director of the CIA) was the US ambassador to Russia. He sent his little publicised "NYET MEANS NYET: RUSSIA'S NATO ENLARGEMENT REDLINES" memo to Condoleezza Rice, then US Secretary of State, in which he wrote:
"5. (C) Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face."
In April 2008, only 2 months after the Burns memo, NATO declared that Ukraine and Georgia would join the military alliance. This declaration was made despite the objections of France (Sarkozy) and Germany (Merkel) who were concerned about the possible consequences.
Can you not see that NATO enlargement had been a serious national security concern for Russia for years?
That the USA knew this but carried on anyway?
23:40 That's a widespread but wrong view on the Greek-Persian wars.
The Persian empire was a multicultural, loosely tied formation.
The Greeks were a single nation with the same art and culture but with wildly different political systems in their cities. Only some of the Greeks were democratic and even there, their politics included only a minority of the population (male, wealthy, healthy) and definitely not the slaves which were the basis of their society. The others, particularly the Spartans, were worse than fascists.
Soo nice action story, but debatable victory of civilization.
The Greeks weren't a nation in the modern sense as nationalism which grew out of absolutism didn't exist until the French and US revolutions, they were a culture.
@@SirAntoniousBlock This is semantics. Why would you apply the modern definition of nation?
What matters is that they were not a single polity and there we agree.
@@florinadrian5174 "the Spartans, were worse than fascists." - applying a comparison of modern ultra nationalist politics to define an army or state of the ancient past, or am I missing something?
@@EEX97623 I cannot compare political regimes across ages? Tell me what else is forbidden...
Guy in the audience wearing a wolfs angle
Good speech
If russia can resist the tide of perversion and wastefulness they buy some time for us... pray for them
Yes - the mass of ordinary Russians suffer also - but not like Ukraine.
Fukuyama actually talked from a geopolitical point of view and lifted the conversation above banality,, weirdly, the other members of the panel , and the host, seemed to ignore him.
Snyder approvingly or supportively nodded to Fukuyama when Fukuyama finished his first and second statements.
Fukuyama himself is banal. Nothing he says is of practical value, because he does not know sht about UA or the imperial history of Europe.
I am not sure if he knows how big the two world wars were.
they know....... they don't care about any fact. They know there is not even e hypotethical "WIN" for Ukraine.... win what?
Even a fantasy win, would be absolutely blocked by EU and usa...
She does not mention Ruanda?
She is a stooge as you can tell. An anti war org leader supporting war. No moral backbone. You can guess who is paying her salary or she wouldn’t be invited to such a panel. No dissent or off script opinion or the est. will shut you down quick.
I really enjoy this forum. Thank you!
1.Its sad, some thought we were beyond this.
2. The weakness of the sleepy West and the renewed violence of totalitarian regimes means other worldwide challenges again lie ahead, as the 1920s and 1930s lead to the 40s -80s.
3. This is a border war within the traditional sphere of influence of a few regional powers, Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Hungary. The location of the border not as much a concern of powers further away, since they refuse to join in militarily. It's effect, devastating to Ukraine and damaging to Russia will be limited.
The west really good at blaming other people for their crimes...
What do mean sleepy west? The West is not sleepy , it doesn't know anything anymore
What about the violence perpetuated by the west, especially since September, 2001. The moslems killed 4,000 the west kills 4,000,000! Good odds for any colonialist, capitalist, neocon!
Evolution or extinction? Are we able to learn to live in harmony with each other, nature and technology including AI? Sustainability not profitability. Mindfulness and self love, respect not exploitation. Our species faces a major die off, the population is passing the peak, passing a tipping point where our population goes from exponential growth to a transition to a new sustainable relationship with the ecosystem that has sustained us up until now. That downward curve can be as steep as a cliff which falls to zero, extinction, or it can begin steeply and recover as it returns to historic levels of sustainability, pre-technology levels such as pre-Columbian America. This could lead to a selection pressure that would produce a new species of hominid, speciation. The curve could be more gentle and could include technological solutions that would level off at a population that could both live more harmoniously with nature and each other and incorporate technology that would represent an evolution into a new species of technologically enhanced humanity, cyborgs. Taking life to other planets, terraforming and evolving new species of humans who could survive other planetary ecologies is another path that will require technologies including genetic engineering to reach for the stars. Managing these changes in a moral and humane way brings hope to a future that appears very scary from our selfish and ethnocentric perspectives. Keep up the good work or as John Perkins says "Dream True" instead of living like the hero of his book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman." Be blessed, you are a blessing. Aboriginal cultures have much to teach us.
38:10 As a psychologist I approve this message.
Outstanding speakers and moderator! It should be readily apparent to all people of the world who choose democracy over authoritarian dictatorships that the future of the current world Rule of Law is hanging by a thread. The outcome of the illegal and unjustified war in Ukraine will determine whether or not the past 70 years of world peace and relative prosperity will or will not continue. The people of the global West, as well as the people of the global South, must take a stand. Will they allow an aggressive but economically weak Russia to prevail, allowing the international rule of law to be declared dead and void? Clearly, the latter will be true if Russia is allowed to retain any small portion of the internationally recognized borders of Ukraine. Concerning the Russian-leaning countries of the global South, it should have been mentioned that Russian bribery money has purchased the loyalties of many of the corrupt politicians of that region. This may not be a politically kosher statement but it is reality and best not sugar-coated. One can only hope that the citizens of that region will make their will known.
What’s at stake is not the “Rule of Law” but the future of the American global hegemony. Legal institutions and conventions are derivative from the power realities and interest structures that underpin them. The “rules of the game” are always written and re-written in the wake of great wars and power shifts. Either the US acknowledges that it can no longer operate as an international arbiter and gets used to admitting limits to its global sway and aspirations or it’ll push other rising powers to increasingly challenge the US and band together to undercut its global positions.
Usa is still occupying one third of Syria 😂😂😂😂😂😂
my heart bleeds … western hegemony wants to own civilization. it’s our thing. we get to decide.
why do powerful countries equate themselves with virtue?
why do we tell everyone that russia has no vision ? putin has amazing vision - we’re just not looking for it …
Maybe if he demonstrated his vision in other ways besides war and genocide of other peoples and culture and murder of political opposition in his own country, yes Russia could have a lot to offer as part of a united Europe to help the global South and for Europe to be a counter balance to the USA dominance.. but he is only interested in his own personal power.
Do you really think he send Wagner into African countries in turmoil to stabilise them for the good of the people? He only has Wagner forces there to get control of their rich natural resources..
@@scpython1 I'm not saying that other countries are not doing that.. but Putin's vision? What is great about it? You see it as improvement?
In many ways none of it matters because the whole 'developed' way the majority of people live, or aspire to live, is a death sentence to all life on earth including humans.. and I cannot see a united global response to seriously changing that.. the threat is not from nuclear weapons, it is from all of us, our disconnect from the natural world and yes the 'developed' countries are to blame for developing that way of life with so much waste and wealth and all others followed. We are a self destructive species..
Love this YES production! 💙💛 "When Europe sneezes the rest of us catches a cold".
have you ever searched “jeffrey sachs”
George Washington thought otherwise.
Freedom,food,water, mineral ✌🏿
Looks more like a fertiliser explosion, or was explosives/shells, i really strongly doubt the was just EV batteries. The explanation was too quickly supplied.
Great Panel Thoughtful Discussion worth the listen .. 🙏💙💛
Sure. But sorry, not Fukuyama …
best explanation by Jeffrey Sachs: ua-cam.com/video/YUifh-Wud4g/v-deo.html
@@esr243I always struggle when an "expert" pulls out left or right wing talking points, turning his lecture into a political campaign speech, instead of a facts based discussion. Fukuyama has been so wrong so many times, but people seem to think he's worth listening to!
if a world law was made that made it compulsory for the politician of a country to enter/start a war then that politician would have to fight on the front line, there would be no wars!!!
that's not true, and there'd be a lot more war crimes as militaries have their leaders die with no plan or idea for how to work in a horizontal manner and start committing war crimes now that the abomination that is a military has been let loose of its leash
They'd send a clone or use CGI....
That speaker is wrong. We do not need that speaker to tell us what we are. We are not globalists.
Where are the Sachs and Mearsheimers in the panel 😅
Great ideas and concepts btw.
Really like Snyder's poignant introduction. He's not always completely right, but he's completely right here. russia (no typo) is practically a feral entity at this point, combining that raw base level existence with the human capacity for turning it into machination. We've seen it before, and there's no way around a confrontation.
That introduction made absolutely no sense, it's a purely propagandistic statement. Russia has been stating it's long term goals and interests for THIRTY YEARS, and still does, but no one bothers to listen. That doesn't mean it's a feral entity. It is us in the West that who are self-destructivex have no future and project this onto Russia. So much prejudice and close- mindedness for people that claim to be Liberal and progressive. What a shame. It is because of this unwillingness to understand the other side and cooperate that we are driving ourselves to nuclear annihilation.
Hmmm....num num num, US propaganda and a convenient skip over the last 40 years of NATO encroachment...and AZOV aggression.
You like a "so called historian" to appeal to your emotions and ignore logic?
@@farsalami8605Hey! Right on! I agree it's pretty Sad that a Professor can be as Dangerous as Timothy Snyder is!!! The Corporate Media is just State Media in My Country the United States. They Lie and Misinform Americans Daily. The U.S's 2 Party System with Our Corrupt Corporate Media is putting out Their continuous stream of Government talking points and State information for the State. They've been working Together for a very long time helping to make the U.S the most Propagandized Country in the World 🌎!!! The Joe Biden's Administration has become the U.S's New George W.Bush Administration just without All the Real Hardcore Christian fundamentalists...
I see you are well on the way to dehumanising your "enemy".
You are aware that this tactic was used in the 1930's and by whom, right?
Futile to hope that mr. Trump will hear that panel.
I wonder why is Kharkiv on the map in the background and not Bahmut..
Because you are from eastern Ukraine, therefore you are Not relevant for ukranian Regime.
American puppet Zelensky down!
Kharkiv is the second largest city in Ukraine--Bakhmut has been destroyed by the RuZZians!
@@WangAiHua Bahmut , this is Artemovsk was destroy by Kiewer Regime and Russians . Zelensky is traitor of Ukraine. American try to weaken Russia through West Ukraine Nazi . Zelensky down!
Very simplistic approach to this historical conflict. Like they put Russia and Ukraine in a Petri dish but didn’t mention any other actors who contributed to the evolution of this war.
Simplistic or not it all comes down to Putin illegally invading a sovereign nation. Want peace? All that has to happen is for Russia to go home. Simple really! All the rest is just noise in order to justify a genocide.
NATO and especially US is the elephant in the room 😂
This conversation is highlighted by the decision yesterday in Congress to reject funding for Ukraine.
in a way, you could say that: MAGA rejected funding for Ukraine, not the USA, nor the allies for Ukraine. It was a short term negotiation concession to get the bill passed, but the majority of post parties are behind suport for Ukraine.
It's a lie, Congress didn't reject helping Ukraine.
The lady from the crisis group tried her best to sound honest
Addiction .1 .to material things 2 .to right ,my right ( might ,white ) 3 substance abuse ( alcohol and drugs )and 4 . Power addiction ....always ,constantly hitting ,intimidating ,attacking ,obliterating ,suppressing others to get that one up feeling of power ....and they have to keep doing it to throw away the terror of powerlessness ,hopelessness And helpless child self
What a significant discussion. Everyone completely agreeing with everyone else. Explaining how not only freedom and democracy but also the future of civilization and of humanity depend on Ukraine and the US winning this war. And, indeed the Global South does not exist because each country looks after its own interests (not like the West where each country doesn't). In summary, what an intelligent discussion!
maybe because everyone agreeing with everyone else means it’s not a discussion?
have you ever searched “jeffrey sachs” ?
It would be much easier to say: What does this war mean to America and the American dollar?
This is pure American propoganda by three stooge.Can you believe they are trying to rewrite history and give us their version. Fake fake shamless souless demons 😈
US would not have won its revolution without support from France and Lafayette
does anybody else matter? 😂
@@ewartmouton Vietnamese, Laos, Philipinese, Koreans, Afghans, Iraqis, Syrians, Kurds, Libyans, Chilians , Phalastinians and now Armenians mattered ??
@@rdsc.455 wrong
A set back. At this time of mankind development we should go for knowladge, development, investigation
looks like a bunch of smart people doing smart things
if you say so
1:59 The Yale guy says a battle between civilization and nonhumans is being fought right now in Ucraine while accusing Russia of having the same barbaric and evil thought...Fukuyama, on the other hand, never misses the opportunity at the turning-point of an era to have a wrong take about it
Exactly
Indeed.
It means as a race we haven't emerged from our violent ways and are UNWORTHY of joining the galactic community. We so judged once by the Anunaki and reset back into the stone age.
Very informative, thank you. Slava Ukraini - and the world…
The algirian madam makes a lot of efforts to escape an explicit condemnation of the russian invasion
because russia had the right to invade 🤷🏽♂️
have you searched “jeffrey sachs” ?
She's Nigerian, not Algerian, and she wouldn't be invited to speak on the panel if her support for Ukraine were in question. Look at who's in the audience listening to these speakers. Those attendees are not appeasers.
For a good period of time, I have felt Russia must lose in an epic manner. Only then can the institution and society be restructured to allow security. Post-WWII Japan and Germany.
German here and I fully agree.
Here is how russia will loose. It will force Ukraine to an UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER
*There is REAL evil in this world, but because you're brainwashed you can't see it!*
Hint, It's not Russia, China, north Korea, or Iran.
We shouldn't pay to rebuild them; THEY should pay reparations for the war they started. They're the ones who brought this on, let them reap what they sow.
And Putin faces justice.
18:23 - the book is "War: How Conflict Shaped Us" by Margaret MacMillan
The biggest message from this monologue by these primitive minds is "self-serving orientalism."
"The Russians have nothing but darkness", "if the Persians had won, we'd have no mobile phones" ...... essentially hate speech.
Actually the Persians did win many of the wars against Greece and lost some but if they had taken over Athens and Rome at the end, maybe they would've liberated the hundreds of thousands of slaves kept in "democratic" Greece and Rome. After all Persia at the time paid its workers according to thousands of clay inscriptions found from Perspolis. Maybe victorious Persians would've stopped the practice of throwing slaves in front of lions for the entertainment of "democratic" Roman Kings.
Maybe ... just maybe slave trade in Europe and US would've never happened.
It's very sad that voices like these are now promoted by social media and alorithms, while independent non-establishment voices are cancelled and silenced.
Well said. I couldn't have said it better. These 'brains' talk as if they are self serving. Can't see any intelligence in their speeches. I abhor the part regarding the Persians. Who are these guys to judge that we would not have had a better world if it's the other way around? Stink high of racism and white/ western supremacy. Such simplistic anecdotes to the exclusion of real factual history.
"when UA thakes Crimea... all food problems are solved forever...?" can not beilive such a wise individuals are talking stupidnesses
I can’t believe that is all that you learned from this panel listening to all these people. You are incredibly backwards.
Это бред!!
The danger of listen to ourselves talk and never the other side. All these forums and our news media have become echo chambers. We have banned Russian scholars, esp those that say things we are tone deaf to, imagine how enriched a conversation like this would be if we could listen to actual Russians speak for themselves, it’s hard for me to listen to a western expert on a foreign country and culture, there are always nuances we miss and biases we bring into a discussion. Sad state of affairs.
A most excellent point.
West: "We will tell you what Russians think and do and why. Do not listen to or speak with Russians." How stupid is that?
This isn't a debate. We already know Putin is a genocidal maniac that needs to be stopped at all costs.
They have also banned Indian and Chinese experts who are actually neutral in this war. What does it tell you? 😂
Groovism is the foreseen epiphany of unification!!!
It will be good to find out what this Japanese do for living and his life style habits.
Sucking up to the west? He has forgotten the atrocities Japan had carried out in many Asian nations especially China. Unit 731 is still fresh in our minds.
18:32 Note: not only is that Mead quote a fake one, it would imply other animals, like wolves and meerkats, to have also a civilization.
Yeltsin and Gorbachev were not democrats.
Hrytsak makes a very good point about the Russian pendulum. Shows how galactically arrogant and ignorant Obama was when he called Russia a regional power.
Civilization means new ways to plunder and destroy, very ivy.
The customs and behaviours of Russians so far experienced by me, so room for otherwise, is troubling. A visit to the paradise of Bali Indonesia now a more negative experience due to the Russian people there, and that behaviour a mirror of this discussion. The speed to violence without regard of consequence, the attitude they display when dealing with the indigenous locals is disgusting.
😂 You should see how English behave on Mediterian islands then 😅
Russians are polite people. Americans and English in Thailand are very rude. Many Europeans and Americans in Asia have been found to be raping children. Yet there is no outcry.
Thank you for uploading this interesting panel.
Welcome With Open Hand I'm Somalia.
Lowering the Ukraine domestic population to continue supporting threat eradication weapons development is key in rebuilding the Post Covid economy.
US / UK Live Fire test range Ukraine has brought such quality results in new weapons efficiency and application research.
Soon a new era in advanced small and light-medium arms industries production will burgeon. This will give still Developing Nations with high populations an opportunity to stave Nat Resource usage by their domestic, and neighboring populations.
eye opening perspectives. thank you. I'll be sharing this video with friends and family.