@GYPSYTALES wouldn't dropping the rear and making it low be a lower number like 90 or something--108 sag would mean the bike is sitting up super high. or am i wrong. feels like he just said to opposing things.
The funny thing to me is, between Jett, Hunter, Sexton and Kenny, there are a TON of wins on that bike and the only one to constantly have that issue is Chase.
I'm not anywhere near a top level rider but i've always found the CRF 250 and 450 front ends unpredictable. Even with FC I always fought it. There has to be a reason they're the only OEM with a steering stabilizer out of the box. No hate, still loved my red bikes. Blu was a welcomed change.
@samarthdalvi1323Jett and Hunter stay more upright and centered on the bike I’ve noticed and exert less movement. Chase is the only other one close in riding style but not In the corners
Lol, amazing for one of the most talented guys ever and amazing for bums like us are totally different things. Buying bikes based on what's winning races in the pros is unbelievably stupid.
Jett got Skills like no other. Dude could have finished Top 10 last year on a Road King. This coming year hell need that dirt bike though. Class is Loaded.
I have a 2019 450RX set up for woods and it is by far the best bike I have ever ridden. I had Husky 501 and KX450s and many others it is the best turning and so powerful. Amazing bike.@@mahaniamir
I ride my 450 everywhere short shifting it. It pulls really hard and has much less rotating mass (under lower revs) and the rear end doesn’t bind up over braking bumps and buck you. I find it a much more stable bike that way.
put a seal head spacer on the shock. that equals about 30 millimeters but the bike usually sags that much just taking it off the stand so your not really loosing any travel, it just doesn't top out as high when braking. if you are having to turn the clickers all the way out on the forks that maybe be the problem with the front diving and oversteering. turn the compression clickers in on the forks so they will hold up better and if it's too stiff a revalve maybe needed. Also if it's still turning too sharp roll the handle bars back towards you to slow down the steering. You can also add a adjustable link on the rear to test further lowering the rear of the bike to give it mare stability. use different chain length or sprockets to get the rear wheel as far back as possible. To me I always rather have a quick steering bike and adjust things to slow it down to your liking rather than having a slow turning bike and try to quicken it up.
I just got a ‘22 CRF 450 and to put it simply, nothing less than amazing. I am a Honda guy but I’ve never even been on a bike that had ridiculous power, incredible steering and the trackability that that bike has. Each to their own however, my bike kicks ass and honestly, wouldn’t want a different bike
I'm 6'2" and own a KTM 500 EXC and love it... Not the best on the track but a BEAUTIFUL bike in all types of riding. Plus a CA plate on a dirt bike is a beautiful thing 😂🤘
....the KTM500 EXC has a super smooth engine, very user friendly. I was surprised and there is a good reason why riders have won a lot of Finke Desert Race titles.
@@1969cmp it's so surprising how fast that bike is compared to how smooth it is. My brother has a KTM 450 and can beat me on the street, but the way it puts power down on the dirt is phenomenal. I just got my Vortex X10 CPU... I'm a bit of a speed demon and I can't wait to throw some 100+ octane in it and set it to kill. 😂🤷♂️🤘
I have been a Honda rider since 2004. Every bike when it is brand new needs a break-in for several hours. Then it gets a lot better. Get it setup for you and it's great. Chase is to blame for his own bad setup and unwillingness to change his style.
An inherent characteristic manufactured into a chassis can be improved upon, but it never completely goes away. You're either masking it, helping it to not be as prominent, or moving the problem to another aspect of the hamdling challenges.
I found that this bike is just really responsive to your body . You go faster when you focus on technique . Moment you go for intensity and less focus on technique, the bike gets weird . good bike for people who like to just ride and ride smooth for fun . If you wanna push hard it’s sketchy kinda . This bike reflects your technique. Most bikes you can do whatever you want and get away with a lot . this bikes got a major sweet spot
I've raced every generation of Honda 4 stroke, and the last 3 generations I've had to lower the forks in the clamps and sag it out. Not sure where they factory setup those bikes but they have the setting wrong. If you drop the forks and sag it out, way better.
That’s right, but even in the late 70’s I had a rx75 and had to put 100 forks on it, cdi ignition, lengthen swing arm and red wing shocks plus had a 5th gear installed. All bikes have to be tailored to the rider.
A few reasons. One, they weren’t near as fast as they are now. Things that are an issue now would even be something that could be an issue then because they were slower machines. Two, the bikes are so sophisticated and cutting edge that any small mistake or issue is amplified. Three, the spot has gotten so tough that these issues can really hurt a season. They’re all products of the evolution of the sport. But that’s just me. I trail ride a KTM 300 and I ain’t fast.
@@MikeRay1978 i agree but I also believe the newer generation of humans are extremely soft. Any adversity they place blame on something other than themselves.
I remember being in the pits at a national one year ion’s ago and I was looking at the new trick steering damper and Shorty was standing there and I said wonder where you can get one of those at,he looked at me and laughed!
True, I’ve got a 96 Cr125 and the head angle is way different and feels closer to the rider compared to my 03 Rm125 that has more rake. Both have their pros and cons
@@daviddickinson1993 Sexton spent his entire career on Honda until now and I’d say it did him just fine multiple championships the best outdoors season we may have ever seen. I think having the Lawrence’s around was playing into his head to much I don’t think he suddenly forgot how to ride a Honda. I have had Hondas starting in 83 all the way until my 22 and the brand has always had a similar feel all the Japanese brands have they seek a certain characteristic and stick to it.
@@Steezy_Mx yeah my 96 CR250 was a top 3 bike of all time for me I was the most competitive I ever was in 96 and 97 on that bike. Podiums in every round of the NWMX series those years.
Nice cookie duster! I chose a Husky over the new CRF450 as my local Honda shop wouldn't budge 1 cent on the price. I have fond memories of my 06 CRF450, but it did shake on me going down Mount St. Helens at the World Vet in 2010. I did get 100 hours on the original top end, which is very nice for us working stiffs that are of limited means.
@@ottokirk2325 They did from 02-12 I believe. It was nice to put engine oil in the engine and gearbox oil in the transmission. I may have bought 2 clutches for the bike.
I just went through 3 weeks of my front end tucking on corner exit on my 24.5 MC450F FE. I started out trying recommended specs from MXA, Keefer, etc & didn’t have any luck. Most of these guys are running less sag than factory (105), with the forks at the 3rd line. I didn’t find any sort of comfort till I slid the forks down to the second line & went back to 105mm of sag. I appreciate the effort those guys put into recommended specs & usually they are on the money with the clickers but their f/r chassis setup just doesn’t work well for me riding here in FL. Chassis setup can definitely be tricky on these newer bikes, there are so many variables at work on top of all the frames trending towards sharper cornering.
Come on guys... we have 2024!! I am tired of hearing about the bikes which. Is. Better and which is worst, nowadays if the rider is capable.of winning, he will no matter the. Brand and . we are talking about factory bikes!! give Jett the new. Cove 450... .he will. Beat Everyone
The same way Geijser was making it work until he got injured. I have a feeling Jett is not going to dominate like everyone thinks. Wins wont come as easy as in 2023
I'd love to see all these opinions validated. Everything can be measured. We are in an era where all manufacturers are using very similar wheel base, ground clearance, steering angle, seat height. They're all good bikes, we're spoiled for choices if you want to modify them, clamp offset, rear wheel position, suspension valving but unfortunately the moto industry is plagued with chinese whisper type myths that spread like wild fire. Unfortunately most people are suckers for following trends and popular opinion no matter whether these are infact true. The Honda has some design quirks but nothing that can't be easily sorted especially with a reasonable budget. The crank sits closer to the front axle so go for a bigger offset. The 49mm forks will need no float to eliminate brake dive and because the shock has a short stroke you want a good valving configuration, ie no crossovers and well pressure balanced. Most of these handling traits the media harp on about is just poor suspension setup. In automotive they call it vehicle dynamics. Maintain control of the kinetic energy of the spring and subsequently the chassis at low shaft speeds ie turning, braking and accelerating. As for rotating mass it will be influenced by RPM. A 350 crank doing 6000 RPM will have similar inertia numbers to a 450 crank doing 4000RPM. Add to that all the extra gear changes.
The opinions, to a large extent, are inherently subjective due to the physical differences in riders, rider styles, and rider talent. That said, if a large percentage of riders representing a spectrum of talent, age, etc., are generally voicing the same opinions, there's at least a stronger than average probability of a degree of accuracy.
@@rg807 as long as what they voice isn't influenced by what they hear. Moto is a little light on critical thinkers and we do live in a age of "influencers" which goes to show how easily opinions and narratives are directed irrespective of fact.
@@vinceseyb2640 That's true, but MXA in particular has pretty solid test protocols, which they've openly shared. That doesn't mean they're perfect, they are riding in just one part of the country, for example, but I think they're at least in the ball park. Additionally, all of the comments in this video about rotating mass are common physics knowledge, so at the least that part is correct.
isnt it wild that the front end tucks are happening with the dirt bike of Honda and also the motogp bikes for honda... The compaints from everyone who rides the honda in motogp is always the front end feel and that they cant find the limit before the bike just folds on them.
Actually the issue with Honda MotoGP is a few things, they try to make up time on the brakes because the bike doesn’t get out the corners well. So hence front end crashes trying to steal a few more metres into a corner. The other is they can’t change the engine for the year, the engine is too aggressive and basically unstable a the bike on that first hit of the throttle which also makes the front end go mid corner
@@gildo101rossi because he was faster and more comfortable on the Ducati that he's never ridden, after riding Honda for how long? Honda always has this problem. They have an ego and think they know how to engineer a bike better than anyone, and won't listen to any rider when they tell them it needs to be fixed. They didn't listen to McGrath when they went to the aluinium frame and he said it was junk (and it was), and they don't listen to Marq. They make great bikes, win championships, and some people can ride the wheels off of them and make them look amazing, like Jett. But, Honda gonna Honda.
The Honda 450 is amazing but sometimes it just decides to spit you off and you have no way to figure out what went wrong. Every other bike in a crash, it’s either the bike had an issue or the rider technique was off.
450’s aren’t meant to be pushed at the amateur level. If you are pushing the speed ability of a 450 you probably aren’t an amateur. If you want to push a bike hard get a 250 four strike or 125 two stroke.
I started on a 75 honda XL which is on the 74 CR mx frame....they all turn the same ...U HAVE TO MAKE THEM TURN AN stay on them u cant slack off...with the bikes being 17 18 inch of travel an a alluminum frame i m sure its way more difficult to feel that tuck...but if u dont weight that front end an hold it planted it ...if u let it get loose...the long travel has a area where it is in the middle where ur not sure its going up or out rebounding hoping ur wheels are touching terra firma. .thats why u see jett doing the hop technic...i watched bob hannah do it an copyied it bob was on a newer RM SUZUKI.... which had way better suspension than the junk he rode in sx an mx...those old bikes where so scary...70s 80s
the only diff between a bikes feel is rake / trail weight bias , why dont you post the specs on the bike you think is the best handling and the honda specs
Stoner criticized the Ducati all the time. He always had problems with the front end. Everyone always marveled at how he went through turn 3, i believe, on philip island sliding, and he said on an interview with Gypsy Tales that it was because he couldn't trust the front end, so he slid the rear so the front never had a chance to tuck on him. Sliding the rear through the whole turn at well over 100 mph, because he couldn't deal with the front end. Insane.
Is it a case with the Honda that less is more...... less rider input the better it responds. finding the edge between steering input and lean angle and turning it more with the rear wheel
I dont understand the 90% thing because everybodys 90% is different. Also jett was putting that bike wherever he wanted. He passed plessing going into a corner and skipper ruts, made the turn and dipped out.
Talking aboutcthe 450s being more to handle now u dont wonder why Roczen runs that slipper clutch so he doesnt have to fight it nose diving in turns an have all that engine brake to disrupt his corner turn in brake zone....everyone who rode Roczen RM 450 was totally lovin it....
A big part of picking a bike is personal preference. Ideally, dealerships would offer demo bikes so we could all try before we buy. At the local level, being on a different bike will have little effect on lap times and race results. The biggest thing is being comfortable enough to ride to one's potential. Little changes to any bike can help get one there. I spent a decent amount of cash on suspension work and a throttle body on my 22.5 FC450, and it let's me go as fast as I'm capable. I'd go just as fast or slow (I'm not great) on a Honda. The rider will always be the most important piece of the puzzle.
I have. My cousin has is an A class rider and the only thing he did was have the suspension done like any racer would to fit them right and he put a yoshi exhaust in it to smooth out the sound. He loves the bike.
I hope Honda Corporate is listening...doubt it. I guess I don't understand how one company can have a R&D budget larger than all others combined and still produce a bike that attracts so much criticism. THEY CANNOT EVEN REPLICATE A BIKE THEY HAVE MADE IN THE PAST THAT WON EVERYTHING! (Ref 2008 Honda CRF450R). Lets hope the 2025 model is a step in the right direction...
Lmao do you even hear what you are saying? 2023 SX 250 and 450 champ, 2023 250 and 450 MX champ(22 motos), 2023 450 SMX champ. This bike does win everything
for me, the front suspension on the Honda was terrible. I could never dial it in for my preference, and it would write on my teeth out of my school, no matter how soft I got it to be. I’ve never felt that on the Yamaha, and I feel safer on a Yamaha if i dare say.
all this focus on the chassis is off base. An average rider doesnt apply anywhere near the same loads as jett or chase to a frame the reaction and flex to even a mosiman are not the same. The honda frame is more alike to a kx or rmz than it is different. Flex is measurable - honda is well aware of their frame character vs any oem. The frame gussett on the pro bike is proof its not too stiff. i think their shock geometry and anti squat character is the biggest difference from honda and others
When was the last time this guy was on the podium.. excuses. Kenny complained about it too.. and then he switched to suzuki and only won one race.. yeah, its definitely the bike..
listening to these dudes whinge about the handling of a 450 is adorable. ride a 500 smoker for half a day and try that 450 again and you will be singing its praises.
Had CRF 450 2015 … the worst bike I ever had. Chassis was worst of all bikes. Diving front suspension, understeering as hell, steering angle is near 30 degrees. Sag was the biggest problem. I was riding 95mm sag and still sitting so high. Horrible engine characteristics, good torque, but no power, even I had fully Akrapovic exhaust… power was very similar to previously owned Husky TE310 Fully opened for racing. Comparing to KXF 450 which I raced for 2 years, kawi was the great handling bike, with awesome power. Honda, never ever.
Ouch. . 1. Change the bike to fit the rider, not the rider to fit the bike. That was always the rule. 2. Ricky's CRF with Chris as mechanic was a meeean thing and Ricky changed his style for the bike?. Mmmm. Conundrums. Lol.
Will see what you say when Eli tomac beats Jett then he’s the guy I believe can beat Jett and kenny can beat him to If he gets the perfect start then we will see what you say then an them star racing blue bikes gonna be tuff in the 250’s this year I believe it’s gonna be Yamaha cause I know there sick of Honda being dominant but I believe Jo gonna have a big year coming back to the Honda 250 an being reunited with his old team and l look for Enzo Lopez gonna be a beast on the star racing blue machine to
@@mekg2439people have been wearing masks for a long damn time. There is such a think as being immune compromised. Ffs man all you people think you’re disease and medical experts. “Hypochondriac” my ass. Shut up about things you know nothing about.
@@mekg2439wrong. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about, you don’t know the issues that accrue with the body from multiple surgeries close together like Ken had. It weakens your body and the immune system. He had 2 big injuries around a year apart, the first one had 11 surgeries & a major infection. No wonder Ken’s immune system is fucked.
OMG ... why Mosiman try his best to bring KTM .. Not a true journalist . obsessed or paid by KTM !? yes he is KTM partner and they share knowledge withhim before anyone else . he is just a KTM puppet. sry to see MXA magezin get scrwed by him cause he should show his loyalty to KTM to be able to be with KTM ... I dont like MXA shoot out anymore because in every single year he is tryying his best to make KTM look better.
The Honda is junk. I complained to people all of 2023 that the crashing by Chace wasn't due to Chase. Honda needs a complete re-design of the chassis and suspension. Jett's bike was far from stock and set up to cater to Jett's riding style.
@@poorman9259same here with my 23 450r, no unexpected twitches on the front end & I do ride decent enough to know what I'm feeling for on the bike. Too many people that actually don't own one that want to give an opinion & complain about a well manufactured bike they didn't put enough time into to get the right setup, expecting it to suit everyone straight out of the crate🤦🏼♂️
Look at the differences on how Jett and Chase ride, Chase is hard and aggressive on the front end, Jett is relaxed and uses the rear of the bike to turn. Which one had issues with the front? Chase refused to change his riding style
Free Tip: He doesn't make it work. He lets it work. It's easier to let someone do something, than it is to make someone do something. Right? Logic 101. You're welcome.
Make sure you check out the FULL 3 HOUR PODCAST: ua-cam.com/video/DsVvitvp5-Y/v-deo.html
@GYPSYTALES wouldn't dropping the rear and making it low be a lower number like 90 or something--108 sag would mean the bike is sitting up super high. or am i wrong. feels like he just said to opposing things.
The funny thing to me is, between Jett, Hunter, Sexton and Kenny, there are a TON of wins on that bike and the only one to constantly have that issue is Chase.
I'm not anywhere near a top level rider but i've always found the CRF 250 and 450 front ends unpredictable. Even with FC I always fought it. There has to be a reason they're the only OEM with a steering stabilizer out of the box. No hate, still loved my red bikes. Blu was a welcomed change.
Amen
Facts
@samarthdalvi1323Jett and Hunter stay more upright and centered on the bike I’ve noticed and exert less movement. Chase is the only other one close in riding style but not In the corners
What did the Honda bike do to Kenny's arms?
Bubba Stewart recently bought a stock Honda 450. He said it was amazing. I trust his opinion more
Me too
Lol, amazing for one of the most talented guys ever and amazing for bums like us are totally different things. Buying bikes based on what's winning races in the pros is unbelievably stupid.
You think the most talented rider ever knows whether a bike is good for the average rider vs a dude that tests bikes for a living? Hmm interesting
You also have to remember the factory Honda is nothing close to a stock 450.
@@dougbotha8768 Bubba was talking about a stock 450
Jett got Skills like no other. Dude could have finished Top 10 last year on a Road King. This coming year hell need that dirt bike though. Class is Loaded.
Crazy to see Jett go from being willing to do anything for his first 250 SX win to appearing so chill and hardly ever losing.
.......a Road King wouldn't have finished the races.
@@jamesadams2334🧠 here you dropped this
@@jamesadams2334
Yeah, pretty sure that was hyperbole. 🙃😉😁
😂😂
I have a 2022 450r and it’s great. Feels better everytime I ride.
I ride off road but my CRF450 is my favorite bike of all time. I had many and trust it so much in sketchy terrain. Power is amazing also.
many of my friend start changing from their KTM to new honda 2021-2023
I have a 2019 450RX set up for woods and it is by far the best bike I have ever ridden. I had Husky 501 and KX450s and many others it is the best turning and so powerful. Amazing bike.@@mahaniamir
Did you listen to James Bubba Stewart season preview? He went and bought a stock CR450F and said he was impressed. It’s great bike
He is correct. LOL These Honda haters!!!@@iceKOId
@@michaelnaranjo27 people want to blame the bikes instead of holding themselves accountable for their own errors 😂
Ferrandis came from your “bike of the year” which he seemed to hate and now loves the Honda
personal preference
First time hearing the spinning top analogy, I love that!!❤
I ride my 450 everywhere short shifting it. It pulls really hard and has much less rotating mass (under lower revs) and the rear end doesn’t bind up over braking bumps and buck you. I find it a much more stable bike that way.
put a seal head spacer on the shock. that equals about 30 millimeters but the bike usually sags that much just taking it off the stand so your not really loosing any travel, it just doesn't top out as high when braking. if you are having to turn the clickers all the way out on the forks that maybe be the problem with the front diving and oversteering. turn the compression clickers in on the forks so they will hold up better and if it's too stiff a revalve maybe needed. Also if it's still turning too sharp roll the handle bars back towards you to slow down the steering. You can also add a adjustable link on the rear to test further lowering the rear of the bike to give it mare stability. use different chain length or sprockets to get the rear wheel as far back as possible. To me I always rather have a quick steering bike and adjust things to slow it down to your liking rather than having a slow turning bike and try to quicken it up.
I just got a ‘22 CRF 450 and to put it simply, nothing less than amazing. I am a Honda guy but I’ve never even been on a bike that had ridiculous power, incredible steering and the trackability that that bike has. Each to their own however, my bike kicks ass and honestly, wouldn’t want a different bike
I'm 6'2" and own a KTM 500 EXC and love it... Not the best on the track but a BEAUTIFUL bike in all types of riding. Plus a CA plate on a dirt bike is a beautiful thing 😂🤘
....the KTM500 EXC has a super smooth engine, very user friendly. I was surprised and there is a good reason why riders have won a lot of Finke Desert Race titles.
@@1969cmp it's so surprising how fast that bike is compared to how smooth it is. My brother has a KTM 450 and can beat me on the street, but the way it puts power down on the dirt is phenomenal.
I just got my Vortex X10 CPU... I'm a bit of a speed demon and I can't wait to throw some 100+ octane in it and set it to kill. 😂🤷♂️🤘
I think people complaining about the honda is a bunch of bs
It's all a excuse to take away rider errors from the rider. It's cringey asf
I don't. Every qualified person has nearly identical criticisms of that chassis.
Jase doesn't ride fast enough
Complain of the Honda complain about the ktm. Complain about everyone and everything 😊
I have been a Honda rider since 2004. Every bike when it is brand new needs a break-in for several hours. Then it gets a lot better. Get it setup for you and it's great. Chase is to blame for his own bad setup and unwillingness to change his style.
An inherent characteristic manufactured into a chassis can be improved upon, but it never completely goes away. You're either masking it, helping it to not be as prominent, or moving the problem to another aspect of the hamdling challenges.
The plate hrc added over the head tube wasn’t to strengthen it but to hide the work they did underneath 🤔
It's probably irrelevant 50 years later but front end washout was a problem for me on my CR250 Elsinore.
I spat my drink out when he said I don’t even know what your question was 😂
I found that this bike is just really responsive to your body . You go faster when you focus on technique . Moment you go for intensity and less focus on technique, the bike gets weird . good bike for people who like to just ride and ride smooth for fun . If you wanna push hard it’s sketchy kinda . This bike reflects your technique. Most bikes you can do whatever you want and get away with a lot . this bikes got a major sweet spot
The last 450 Honda I rode was a 2017 and it spit me off in some rollers I did on my KTM450 hundreds of times perfectly smooth
I've raced every generation of Honda 4 stroke, and the last 3 generations I've had to lower the forks in the clamps and sag it out. Not sure where they factory setup those bikes but they have the setting wrong. If you drop the forks and sag it out, way better.
Riders of the 80’s, 90’s, 2000’s, and even 2010’s never seemed to blame the bike. Why is this such an issue now?
That’s right, but even in the late 70’s I had a rx75 and had to put 100 forks on it, cdi ignition, lengthen swing arm and red wing shocks plus had a 5th gear installed. All bikes have to be tailored to the rider.
A few reasons. One, they weren’t near as fast as they are now. Things that are an issue now would even be something that could be an issue then because they were slower machines. Two, the bikes are so sophisticated and cutting edge that any small mistake or issue is amplified. Three, the spot has gotten so tough that these issues can really hurt a season. They’re all products of the evolution of the sport. But that’s just me. I trail ride a KTM 300 and I ain’t fast.
@@MikeRay1978 i agree but I also believe the newer generation of humans are extremely soft. Any adversity they place blame on something other than themselves.
mm. I still see vet riders telling stories about shitty bikes from all time periods.
McGrath left Honda after winning multiple championships because they gave him a bike that was so bad he couldn't ride it
I remember being in the pits at a national one year ion’s ago and I was looking at the new trick steering damper and Shorty was standing there and I said wonder where you can get one of those at,he looked at me and laughed!
Andrew Short!?
The Honda feels like Hondas always have they have always turned that way. weird that a lot of the best ever seem to like them just fine…
Chase Sexton not good enough?
True, I’ve got a 96 Cr125 and the head angle is way different and feels closer to the rider compared to my 03 Rm125 that has more rake. Both have their pros and cons
@@Steezy_Mxyeah I always felt you sit ON a cr, whereas you sit IN a rm.
@@daviddickinson1993 Sexton spent his entire career on Honda until now and I’d say it did him just fine multiple championships the best outdoors season we may have ever seen. I think having the Lawrence’s around was playing into his head to much I don’t think he suddenly forgot how to ride a Honda. I have had Hondas starting in 83 all the way until my 22 and the brand has always had a similar feel all the Japanese brands have they seek a certain characteristic and stick to it.
@@Steezy_Mx yeah my 96 CR250 was a top 3 bike of all time for me I was the most competitive I ever was in 96 and 97 on that bike. Podiums in every round of the NWMX series those years.
Thats why Jett is standing up all the time.
Lots of great info there and Josh knows his stuff. Always easy to listen to. Good interview Gypy.
wait till he tucks the front on the KTM lol
Nice cookie duster! I chose a Husky over the new CRF450 as my local Honda shop wouldn't budge 1 cent on the price. I have fond memories of my 06 CRF450, but it did shake on me going down Mount St. Helens at the World Vet in 2010. I did get 100 hours on the original top end, which is very nice for us working stiffs that are of limited means.
Didn't they have separate oil for the cylinder? Longevity much
@@ottokirk2325 They did from 02-12 I believe. It was nice to put engine oil in the engine and gearbox oil in the transmission. I may have bought 2 clutches for the bike.
I just went through 3 weeks of my front end tucking on corner exit on my 24.5 MC450F FE. I started out trying recommended specs from MXA, Keefer, etc & didn’t have any luck. Most of these guys are running less sag than factory (105), with the forks at the 3rd line. I didn’t find any sort of comfort till I slid the forks down to the second line & went back to 105mm of sag. I appreciate the effort those guys put into recommended specs & usually they are on the money with the clickers but their f/r chassis setup just doesn’t work well for me riding here in FL. Chassis setup can definitely be tricky on these newer bikes, there are so many variables at work on top of all the frames trending towards sharper cornering.
Hondas need to have a longer rake. Headset deg change. Same thing with my 05.
Did the CRF450 win any championships last year?
Come on guys... we have 2024!! I am tired of hearing about the bikes which. Is. Better and which is worst, nowadays if the rider is capable.of winning, he will no matter the. Brand and . we are talking about factory bikes!! give Jett the new. Cove 450... .he will. Beat Everyone
Jet is Amazing and Honda 450 is really amazing with their new chassis which become more like 2007-2008 crd
Casey Stoner said the same thing - you have to ride the bike the way it wants to be ridden, not the way you want to ride it.
put another link in the chain, slide forks down, bring high speed comp in and run more fork comp.
The same way Geijser was making it work until he got injured. I have a feeling Jett is not going to dominate like everyone thinks. Wins wont come as easy as in 2023
Didnt realise Gajser* won every single moto
@@kurtisthiele I didn’t say that. I said Gajser had that bike dialed before he wrecked
I hope he’s not as fast as I think he will be. Takes the fun out of watching. Still the fastest guy I ever rode with is mark Barrett. Legend.
This didn't age well after lastnight 😂😂😂
Hondas (CRs) are front steering bikes, and always have been. It’s not bad. It just IS. You would HAVE to know this to sign with them.
I'd love to see all these opinions validated. Everything can be measured.
We are in an era where all manufacturers are using very similar wheel base, ground clearance, steering angle, seat height. They're all good bikes, we're spoiled for choices if you want to modify them, clamp offset, rear wheel position, suspension valving but unfortunately the moto industry is plagued with chinese whisper type myths that spread like wild fire. Unfortunately most people are suckers for following trends and popular opinion no matter whether these are infact true.
The Honda has some design quirks but nothing that can't be easily sorted especially with a reasonable budget. The crank sits closer to the front axle so go for a bigger offset. The 49mm forks will need no float to eliminate brake dive and because the shock has a short stroke you want a good valving configuration, ie no crossovers and well pressure balanced.
Most of these handling traits the media harp on about is just poor suspension setup. In automotive they call it vehicle dynamics. Maintain control of the kinetic energy of the spring and subsequently the chassis at low shaft speeds ie turning, braking and accelerating.
As for rotating mass it will be influenced by RPM. A 350 crank doing 6000 RPM will have similar inertia numbers to a 450 crank doing 4000RPM. Add to that all the extra gear changes.
You actually have a brain. This Gypsy clown just wants to stir the pot for views
The opinions, to a large extent, are inherently subjective due to the physical differences in riders, rider styles, and rider talent. That said, if a large percentage of riders representing a spectrum of talent, age, etc., are generally voicing the same opinions, there's at least a stronger than average probability of a degree of accuracy.
None of the naysayers have ever risen to the level of Jett Lawrence. Poor craftsman alway blame their tools.
@@rg807 as long as what they voice isn't influenced by what they hear. Moto is a little light on critical thinkers and we do live in a age of "influencers" which goes to show how easily opinions and narratives are directed irrespective of fact.
@@vinceseyb2640 That's true, but MXA in particular has pretty solid test protocols, which they've openly shared. That doesn't mean they're perfect, they are riding in just one part of the country, for example, but I think they're at least in the ball park. Additionally, all of the comments in this video about rotating mass are common physics knowledge, so at the least that part is correct.
isnt it wild that the front end tucks are happening with the dirt bike of Honda and also the motogp bikes for honda... The compaints from everyone who rides the honda in motogp is always the front end feel and that they cant find the limit before the bike just folds on them.
Actually the issue with Honda MotoGP is a few things, they try to make up time on the brakes because the bike doesn’t get out the corners well.
So hence front end crashes trying to steal a few more metres into a corner.
The other is they can’t change the engine for the year, the engine is too aggressive and basically unstable a the bike on that first hit of the throttle which also makes the front end go mid corner
@gildo101rossi yes and the front folds with no warning hence why Marcs unable to save the front end wash outs now, he even said that hinself.
@@xAdam2gx its hard to say, because how do we know Marc’s double shoulder ops and his broken arm ops haven’t hampered his riding style or reflexes
@@gildo101rossi because he was faster and more comfortable on the Ducati that he's never ridden, after riding Honda for how long? Honda always has this problem. They have an ego and think they know how to engineer a bike better than anyone, and won't listen to any rider when they tell them it needs to be fixed. They didn't listen to McGrath when they went to the aluinium frame and he said it was junk (and it was), and they don't listen to Marq. They make great bikes, win championships, and some people can ride the wheels off of them and make them look amazing, like Jett. But, Honda gonna Honda.
The Honda 450 is amazing but sometimes it just decides to spit you off and you have no way to figure out what went wrong. Every other bike in a crash, it’s either the bike had an issue or the rider technique was off.
450’s aren’t meant to be pushed at the amateur level. If you are pushing the speed ability of a 450 you probably aren’t an amateur. If you want to push a bike hard get a 250 four strike or 125 two stroke.
I started on a 75 honda XL which is on the 74 CR mx frame....they all turn the same ...U HAVE TO MAKE THEM TURN AN stay on them u cant slack off...with the bikes being 17 18 inch of travel an a alluminum frame i m sure its way more difficult to feel that tuck...but if u dont weight that front end an hold it planted it ...if u let it get loose...the long travel has a area where it is in the middle where ur not sure its going up or out rebounding hoping ur wheels are touching terra firma. .thats why u see jett doing the hop technic...i watched bob hannah do it an copyied it bob was on a newer RM SUZUKI.... which had way better suspension than the junk he rode in sx an mx...those old bikes where so scary...70s 80s
Chase is going to have the same issue on any bike
The ride triple clamps made a hug difference
Ive been saying this forever, all the honda guys know this, but they are scared to admit it!
the only diff between a bikes feel is rake / trail weight bias , why dont you post the specs on the bike you think is the best handling and the honda specs
I cant count how many time my front end tucked on me and sent me to the dirt on my 19’ crf450l
With how much everyone changes their bike to fit them, how could any one bike be 'the best' to everyone.
Bit like Stoner and his Ducati Jet n his crf450 just works 💪
Stoner criticized the Ducati all the time. He always had problems with the front end. Everyone always marveled at how he went through turn 3, i believe, on philip island sliding, and he said on an interview with Gypsy Tales that it was because he couldn't trust the front end, so he slid the rear so the front never had a chance to tuck on him. Sliding the rear through the whole turn at well over 100 mph, because he couldn't deal with the front end. Insane.
Is it a case with the Honda that less is more...... less rider input the better it responds. finding the edge between steering input and lean angle and turning it more with the rear wheel
Jett could win on any bike
I dont understand the 90% thing because everybodys 90% is different. Also jett was putting that bike wherever he wanted. He passed plessing going into a corner and skipper ruts, made the turn and dipped out.
So as long as you have Jett’s skill and access to works parts it’s a great handling bike! 😂
People like to hate on Honda’s
Talking aboutcthe 450s being more to handle now u dont wonder why Roczen runs that slipper clutch so he doesnt have to fight it nose diving in turns an have all that engine brake to disrupt his corner turn in brake zone....everyone who rode Roczen RM 450 was totally lovin it....
It's a chase problem. Get fucking real
It’s pretty telling even the European guys are basically changing the whole frame and sexton said it doesn’t even feel like a Honda anymore.
A big part of picking a bike is personal preference. Ideally, dealerships would offer demo bikes so we could all try before we buy. At the local level, being on a different bike will have little effect on lap times and race results. The biggest thing is being comfortable enough to ride to one's potential. Little changes to any bike can help get one there. I spent a decent amount of cash on suspension work and a throttle body on my 22.5 FC450, and it let's me go as fast as I'm capable. I'd go just as fast or slow (I'm not great) on a Honda. The rider will always be the most important piece of the puzzle.
8:13 Like trying to rotate a rotating bicycle wheel. Try it. Bet ya can't do anything it don't already want to do.
Cant be all bad. Look at ferrandis. He wanted to get on the honda.. sorry if u botched his name.
That Honda $$
@@joeking7784 Support rider, passed up deals for more money, defo not on it for the $$
gotta slacken that head tube angle.
Red rider for life
I haven’t met anyone who was happy with their set up on their CRF450’s. The common man doesn’t have factory support to fix the problems
The factory can't even fix it. The Lawrence bros are super human
I completely disagree.
I have. My cousin has is an A class rider and the only thing he did was have the suspension done like any racer would to fit them right and he put a yoshi exhaust in it to smooth out the sound. He loves the bike.
I've met multiple
Is this a problem with the 250s? I have family who manages a Honda dealer and can get a smoking deal. I’m worried about the twitchy reputation
this video was sponsored by the austrian group
idk even wilson is looking the best he has in years on the honda
I hope Honda Corporate is listening...doubt it. I guess I don't understand how one company can have a R&D budget larger than all others combined and still produce a bike that attracts so much criticism. THEY CANNOT EVEN REPLICATE A BIKE THEY HAVE MADE IN THE PAST THAT WON EVERYTHING! (Ref 2008 Honda CRF450R). Lets hope the 2025 model is a step in the right direction...
Lmao do you even hear what you are saying? 2023 SX 250 and 450 champ, 2023 250 and 450 MX champ(22 motos), 2023 450 SMX champ. This bike does win everything
All bikes with the perfect setup the honda is far better if you can ride it... 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 A bike capable of winning everything isn't for everyone
This gentleman has a really attractive moustache.
So Honda's factory MX bikes lose the front randomly just like their MotoGP bikes.
Jett is running a 400cc kit by REDMoto
?
What bike has the lowest seat height?
Husky
Pit bikes.
Wich 250f I should say
for me, the front suspension on the Honda was terrible. I could never dial it in for my preference, and it would write on my teeth out of my school, no matter how soft I got it to be. I’ve never felt that on the Yamaha, and I feel safer on a Yamaha if i dare say.
all this focus on the chassis is off base. An average rider doesnt apply anywhere near the same loads as jett or chase to a frame
the reaction and flex to even a mosiman are not the same.
The honda frame is more alike to a kx or rmz than it is different. Flex is measurable - honda is well aware of their frame character vs any oem. The frame gussett on the pro bike is proof its not too stiff.
i think their shock geometry and anti squat character is the biggest difference from honda and others
Hes the Stoner of Super-duper Cross
The Honda engine in a Kawi frame would be the best bike on the market, hope Honda do something similar for the 2025 model
Well kawi pretty much copied the honda frame
When was the last time this guy was on the podium.. excuses. Kenny complained about it too.. and then he switched to suzuki and only won one race.. yeah, its definitely the bike..
Jett is riding the same geometry as the bike Jeremy McGrath liked. Think about it! not hard to figure that out
Honda has the best bikes in the business. End of conversation.
He's paid by blu.
the guest speaker looks extremely high
Chase almost washed out last weekend at A-1. It’s him not the bikes.
Any one who wins 22 Motos in a row. Will be hard to beat in supercross 😅
Kawi is the best 450
hey its the bogan channel
listening to these dudes whinge about the handling of a 450 is adorable. ride a 500 smoker for half a day and try that 450 again and you will be singing its praises.
I’d say Jett is what makes the bike so good. Dude could ride a bicycle and still compete.
Imagine Jett on a Suzuki
Geez… imagine if Jett was on a Yamaha🤔
Had CRF 450 2015 … the worst bike I ever had. Chassis was worst of all bikes. Diving front suspension, understeering as hell, steering angle is near 30 degrees. Sag was the biggest problem. I was riding 95mm sag and still sitting so high. Horrible engine characteristics, good torque, but no power, even I had fully Akrapovic exhaust… power was very similar to previously owned Husky TE310 Fully opened for racing. Comparing to KXF 450 which I raced for 2 years, kawi was the great handling bike, with awesome power. Honda, never ever.
Ouch.
. 1. Change the bike to fit the rider, not the rider to fit the bike. That was always the rule.
2. Ricky's CRF with Chris as mechanic was a meeean thing and Ricky changed his style for the bike?.
Mmmm. Conundrums. Lol.
Will see what you say when Eli tomac beats Jett then he’s the guy I believe can beat Jett and kenny can beat him to If he gets the perfect start then we will see what you say then an them star racing blue bikes gonna be tuff in the 250’s this year I believe it’s gonna be Yamaha cause I know there sick of Honda being dominant but I believe Jo gonna have a big year coming back to the Honda 250 an being reunited with his old team and l look for Enzo Lopez gonna be a beast on the star racing blue machine to
You ride this bike with your body not with the throttle 😳
That bike ruined Ken Roczen's career
@@mekg2439people have been wearing masks for a long damn time. There is such a think as being immune compromised. Ffs man all you people think you’re disease and medical experts. “Hypochondriac” my ass. Shut up about things you know nothing about.
Lollll what a load of shit, ken wrecked his career
@@mekg2439wrong. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about, you don’t know the issues that accrue with the body from multiple surgeries close together like Ken had. It weakens your body and the immune system.
He had 2 big injuries around a year apart, the first one had 11 surgeries & a major infection.
No wonder Ken’s immune system is fucked.
There's better bikes than the Honda these days
Fake news
OMG ... why Mosiman try his best to bring KTM .. Not a true journalist . obsessed or paid by KTM !? yes he is KTM partner and they share knowledge withhim before anyone else . he is just a KTM puppet. sry to see MXA magezin get scrwed by him cause he should show his loyalty to KTM to be able to be with KTM ... I dont like MXA shoot out anymore because in every single year he is tryying his best to make KTM look better.
The Honda is junk. I complained to people all of 2023 that the crashing by Chace wasn't due to Chase. Honda needs a complete re-design of the chassis and suspension. Jett's bike was far from stock and set up to cater to Jett's riding style.
if jet could set the bike up to cater for his style , why wasn't chase able to do this ?
Bs it was totally Chase James Stewart even pointed it out
the honda is great, best bike ive ever bought, never slipped a front tire even in mud turn track motos, stock suspension all year
@@poorman9259same here with my 23 450r, no unexpected twitches on the front end & I do ride decent enough to know what I'm feeling for on the bike.
Too many people that actually don't own one that want to give an opinion & complain about a well manufactured bike they didn't put enough time into to get the right setup, expecting it to suit everyone straight out of the crate🤦🏼♂️
Look at the differences on how Jett and Chase ride, Chase is hard and aggressive on the front end, Jett is relaxed and uses the rear of the bike to turn.
Which one had issues with the front?
Chase refused to change his riding style
This is silly. Learn how to ride.
completely false about 125 25 450 weight mass lol
You got to run 95 sag in the back end you got a chassis problem
Jealous that they are a van and not a jet
Free Tip: He doesn't make it work. He lets it work.
It's easier to let someone do something, than it is to make someone do something. Right?
Logic 101.
You're welcome.