Did Israel Steal Palestinian Land?
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- Опубліковано 1 тра 2024
- For more commentary on this issue, read the beginning of Elan Journo’s book here, for free: bit.ly/3QABEO2
ARI’s resources on Israel, Palestine, and the Middle East (bit.ly/arimideastresources).
𝘞𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘑𝘶𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘦 𝘋𝘦𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘥𝘴 by Elan Journo explains the essential nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, what has fueled it for so long, and what justice demands of us to solve it. Get your copy here: amzn.to/3s26aXp
Failing to Confront Islamic Totalitarianism: For twenty years after 9/11, the Ayn Rand Institute predicted that prevailing ideas about morality would undercut our foreign policy and cripple us in action. Those predictions have proven correct. Get your copy here: amzn.to/46svNjg
==
In this episode of New Ideal Live, Elan Journo and Nikos Sotirakopoulos challenge the misleading narrative of the shrinking Palestinian lands and the claim that Israel has allegedly stolen them. They explore the history of how the Israeli territories were lawfully acquired, the Palestinians’ repeated failures to form an enduring, peaceful state, and the broader philosophical questions of what moral premises are necessary to validate any claim to statehood.
Among the topics covered:
● The dishonest narrative of the “shrinking Palestine” maps;
● The documented history of how individuals acquired the land through trade;
● The Arab rejection of the two-state UN partition plan;
● How the very idea of a partition plan ignored the moral dimension of the Palestinian claim for statehood;
● Why the issue is not fundamentally about land but the type of society being established;
● How Israel ended up occupying the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights;
● How the flawed “land for peace” policy exposed the impossibility of a peaceful Palestinian state;
● The fact that the Palestinians' goal has never been to build a free, prosperous society.
Mentioned in this podcast are Journo’s What Justice Demands (www.amazon.com/What-Justice-D...) and ARI’s resources on Israel, Palestine, and the Middle East (newideal.aynrand.org/aris-res....
The podcast was recorded on October 26, 2023.
0:00:00 Introduction
0:01:43 Dishonesty of “shrinking Palestine”
0:06:35 How the land was bought
0:07:58 The Arab rejection of the two-state UN plan
0:11:40 Morality of the Palestinian claim for statehood
0:19:29 It’s about the type of society, not land
0:22:04 Israel and the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights
0:25:12 The flaws of the “land for peace” policy
0:30:03 The Palestinians’ real goal
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For more commentary on this issue, read the beginning of Elan Journo's book here, for free: bit.ly/3QABEO2
Rachel Corrie.
The discussion while including historical facts, did omit significant details that would alter the conclusions arrived at in your discussion. I'd read Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish scholar, books or listen to his talks to get an objective and more complete truth. Peace.
Based on the ignorance that he displayed in this video, I'll pass
@@Jay-eo3wl defeated by whom?
@@Bearded.Stranger Finklestein is required reading for anyone discussing this topic.
The fact they didn't mention Zionism, or the Nakba, is a great indication that they're leaving out large chunks of the story.
Let's debunk the term "Palestinian" in the first instance. The demographics of the area that comprises modern Israel had a total population of 300,000 people in its entirety and was desolate. Most of the majority Arab population were Bedouin and Druze. At that time, everyone living in that region was called Palestinian including Christians, Muslims and Jews (who maintained a continuous presence prior to and continuing after the Roman expulsion." The term "Palestinian" didn't derive from the existence of a previous sovereign state called Palestine populated by predecessors of modern-day Palestinians because there never was a Palestinian country called Palestine. The only sovereign state that ever existed in the area was Judean. The name "Palestine" was given to this region by the Romans who wanted to eradicate its Judean character after the Bar Kochba revolution. The Jews returned to the land after thousands of years of persecution culminating in the late 19th centuries during the pogroms that took place in the Pale of Russian settlement when Jews began purchasing land in Ottoman Palestine. They began to drain the swamps and irrigate the deserts bringing life back to the land, drawing Arabs from surrounding Arab countries. Moreover, when the English took over the Palestine Mandate, pursuant to the Balfour declaration it allowed Jews to migrate to the area along with Arabs from surrounding states. However, after violence erupted in Palestine, they curtailed Jewish immigration while at the same time allowing hundreds of thousands of Arabs to migrate between the years of 1918-1948. The idea that the Jews occupied a country that had been populated by Palestinian Arabs "for generations" is a myth.
But the entirety of the Jewish people never completely left the land there have been Jewish people there from the beginning of written history maybe before that
@@jillthompson1248 Absolutely. The question that people raise in regard to that is whether European Jews actually descend from the Jews of antiquity and the definitive answer derived from genetic study is that they do
Exactly, right! That is the true history of Palestine. If you look at the flag for that region, pre-1947, there's a BIG Star of David in the middle; NOT a cresent Moon.
bingo
Finaly someone that knows the real history
One point that didn't come up in this video is that when Israel made peace with Egypt, the Egyptians insisted on getting beck every last square inch of the Sinai peninsula, yet they were quite adamant not to take the Gaza strip back to their control.
ZIONISTS TERRORISTS 🇮🇱 supporters?
Epstein importance to Israel election? Explain it? Terrorist supoorter
Which means, as they've made peace with Israel under these and no other conditions, that the Gaza strip is not Israeli occupied, but Israeli posession.
@@verar5844 This is what the Egyptians and the PLO thought, but quite frankly, that's rubbish. When you make peace with another country, and dispense with territory in the process, you won't be in a position to say, I demand for this territory to be dealt with like this and that. Either you make peace, and then no longer have any say concerning given up territory, or you don't make peace.
Yes, the Egyptians basically hated dealing with the Palestinians in Gaza. They still feel that way.
Well, yes. After balfour , settlers settled more and more land.
They settled in a land that was already occupied
Yes, by the Turkic peoples... so should we give it back to the Turkic peoples? you do know Arabs and Turkic peoples are different right??? how about the Arabs who settled from Arabia after WW1? remember the Turkic peoples praised the Jews for their skills so they lived there for hundreds of years. Yes, more Jews came and purchased land. Arabs were not praised. In fact, the Arabs were given Jordan for fighting a few back line Turks while 2 million British fought against the Turkish frontline army. Basically, the Arabs did stuff all and were giving vests amounts of land, BUT after they rode in on their camels from the Arabian Peninsula. Now... during the rise of Hitler, Palestine made a bargain with Hitler to join Rommel once he reached the middle eastern to capture the oil fields. Again, the British stopped Rommel but the fact remains the Arabs were indoctrinated by Nazis who've gone on to indoctrinate their children and so on.. so yeah, you support actually Nazis, and you don't even know it.
How can you settle occupied land? You can conquer occupied land and then settle it. But if you are the ones settling it, that implies that it's empty.
Did you even watch the video?
It's curious to me how many people deny the Jewish connection to Israel. For one thing, every Christian or Muslim person in the world (several billion) knows for a fact that their religious tradition was pre-dated and influenced by the Jewish religion. Furthermore, their own holy books document the fact that Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. For example, who was Jesus? He was a Jew. Where did he live? In Bethlehem, Israel. Bethlehem is the Anglicized version of the Hebrew name "Beit Lechem" - literally "House of Bread." Another blatant example is that the Haram al Sharif, the site of Islam's third most important spiritual center, is built on top of the foundation of the Jewish Temple!
Anyone denying the Jew's claim to their homeland needs to answer at least these questions: 1) How did a Jewish city with a Hebrew name that existed a thousand years before Islam entered the world come to be a Muslim city? Did the Muslims buy it? Did the Jews abandon it? Or was it taken by force? 2) If the Arabs are the indigenous inhabitants of the land, how did the Jews manage to build the ruins of a temple underneath the Haram al Sharif?
The truth is right there in front of everyone's faces. The word "Arab" describes people who originated in "Arabia." Just look up where Arabia is located and you will see that Israel is not part of Arabia.
Arabs are later immigrants to the region that the Romans called "Palestina." No one should have a problem with that. Arabs should be able to live in Israel as they do in the US, the UK, and anywhere else. If some of them now want to identify as "Palestinian," I have no problem with that. But for them or anyone else to argue that Israel is "Muslim land" or the exclusive homeland of the newly-minted Palestinian people simply flies in the face of all reason and evidence. What would be the reaction if Arabs in the UK or France were to claim that the UK and France were their exclusive homelands because they have lived there for generations?
Arab and ethnically Jewish populations have been recently proven to be genetic cousins - via DNA testing - with common ancestors living in the Southern Levant during the Bronze Age. So both ethnic Palestinians, and ethnic Jews have a shared history of living in that area as far back as the Bronze Age (3300 - 1200 BCE).
So, both groups are going to have to figure out how to peacefully live together, or at the very least tolerate the presence of each other, or these wars will only continue.
@@What_If_We_Tried There's no "recent" about it - this is old and patently obvious information that has been common knowledge for at least 3000 years. Whether Abraham was an actual person, or is merely a character in the bible, the fact is that his story and that of his sons shows that it has long been understood that the two groups shared a common ancestor.
However, your post draws the illogical conclusion that because these two peoples share a distant ancestry, that their habitation in the area is co-equal. That is simply not born out by archeological evidence. Peoples migrate and move. The historical evidence shows that the people and culture we now know as "Jewish" emerged, evolved, and flourished in Israel, where it came under attack and conquest by successive empires, though it was never completely obliterated. The people and culture we now know as "Arabic" emerged, evolved and flourished on the Arabian Peninsula. From there, it has spread through conquest and war to all parts of the Middle East, much of North Africa, parts of Asia, and to the West. While there have been Muslim rulers of the land of Israel (Salahadin), there has never been an Arab/Muslim country or national entity within that area.
@@ride8575 There are several UA-cam videos that discuss VERIFIABLE historical claims about populations within the Levant since the Bronze Age, and, DNA testing demonstrates that Arabs in Palestine / the West Bank are biological cousins of ethnic Jews.
My post is for people who want to investigate these issues, and only consider verifiable data.
I am not interested in continuing any dialogue with you.
Pallywood propaganda even claims Jesus is a Palestinian when Palestine didn't even exist then and the literal book documenting Jesus' life says he's descended from David, a king of Israel. Without lies, Islam dies.
@@ride8575 The DNA proof of relatedness going back to the Bronze Age is recent.
Your bible / their bible is irrelevant. Both Palestinian Arabs, and ethnic Jews have a shared history going back to the Bronze Age, and if the talking heads of both groups don't pull their heads out of their nether regions, then the only future is ongoing warfare with the possibility of a larger conflagration.
Also, you forgot to mention that the reason Israel did not give Gaza back to Egypt was because Egypt didn't want it back, and from what I learned they actually threatened to back out of the deal if Israel did not take Gaza.
FACTS!!!
They didn't want Gaza back for VERY good reasons...they owned it long enough to know that the people were trouble...
@@andrewlisciandrello6920 Also forgot to mention that after the Arab countries attacked Israel and lost in 48, they expelled some 800,000 Jews from their own countries.
@@andrewlisciandrello6920 you delude yourself or you lie! Before 1948 'Palestinian' meant all people in Palestine , which was a larger geographical area tha Israel and included all jews , christians and arabs. the word is a colonial term given first by the roman emporer Hadrian. It is a geopolitical term and is NOT a term to define a race of people! very few of the Gazans if any were ever original inhabitants of the area as original inhabitants! they came from Crete and supplanted Egyptians and jews 1500 years ago
@@peterkratoska4524 very good point. we hear nothing about the arab world ethnic cleansing of all jews and most christians !
The problem is a lot of the people debating this issue have no knowledge of history.
The problem isn't so much that people don't know, or ignore history, the problem is that people hide facts and lie by omission. - notice this video doesn't talk about any illegal settlements. - the reason that the areas around Gaza were not well defended is that much of the IDF had been moved to the West Bank, with an aim to "protect settlers"
Precisely. They rely on slogans and propaganda.
Rand was a j r4t
Yes. Especially the people interviewed here. N. Finklestein already showed the deception.
Any trusted link of the history i can read..?.. i really want to know and undertand. Thanks
The first map is missing an important part - the land owners - a large part of the green area was land that was owned by the Ottoman empire and by Ottoman landlords - not by Palestinians. The British kicked out the Ottoman and all of a sudden these lands became Palestinian?
yes of course.
@@edmundblack8754 And why is that? -- you could argue (against the league of nations btw) that the land should be divided by ALL its inhabitants - but you and the Palestinian claim it is ONLY Arab.
@@mbe2014 it was only Arab... For us Jews are a religion and not a race, it is actually racist to consider Jews as a race, imagine if I say Christians are a race and Christians are not Arabs... While I am an Arab Christian. Same, there were Arab Jews who were in Palestine, the European Jews were not from Palestine it wasn't their land, and they are and still are European colonisers.
@@edmundblack8754 Exactly! Well said.
@@edmundblack8754 Oh dear... the Jews that fled the occupation of the land by the Ottoman TURKS - not Arabs - dared to come back to their land when the Turkish hajjis picked the wrong side in WWI.
And all the anti-Semitic neo-Nazis rose up as one and said "How dare they! Once they fled to Europe they were no longer Jews!"
The neo-Nazis claim the Ottoman hajji Turks weren't colonizers, nor the Romans - just them dirty European Jews who moved back where they came from.
Elan Y. Journo (born January 1976) is an Israeli writer, specializing in American foreign policy. He is an Objectivist and a fellow at the Ayn Rand Institute and its Director of Policy Research.[1]
Thank you for your comment. It told me everything I needed to know. You can't trust anybody that has a personal reason to defend anything.
This man is from Israel, of course he will say this land was not stolen and was lawfully acquired.
Everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY, has biases. Including you. Are you a leftist? You likely already have a pro-Palestinian bias. Are you far right? You probably already hate the Jews, so that's an obvious bias. And so on.
The only thing that matters is whether your facts are accurate and your reasoning is sound.
@@Alexandriaqp Trust has got nothing to do with logical reasoning. Why would you trust / deny someone's opinion based on their background instead of basing it on their argument?
Don't forget also that by 1979 Egyptian president Anwar Sadat was in favor of the UN 2-state solutions and for normalization with Israel and then fundamentalists in his own military murdered him for it.
Rabin was also in favour of a two-state solution and also murdered by a fundamentalist on "his" side.
@@markanderson3870 There is a theme there and a lot of people ignore it.
A one state solution could have worked in the past, but with all the terrorism and crimes against humanity, I wouldn't expect that to happen anytime soon.
And then the Jordanians met with the palestinians and the palestinians murdered the king of Jordan, and that's why Jordan/Egypt won't take refugees.
Don't forget the Jews have 0 claim to the lands people already inhabiting for over 1000 years. Those entities, especially the UN, you listed have no right to dictate anything either. What's your point again?
one more thing the maps don't show is the Arab population inside the state of Israel - today there are around 2 million of them, all Israeli citizens.
That's true, but ask any Palestinian and they will tell you those people are not true Arabs.
Bullsh*t!
They are Palestinian citizens of Israel, they are not simply Arab, they are Palestinian, no more and no less than any Palestinian who left present day Israel in 1948
@@jasonfobes5980Of course! they have members of parliament , representation in the Supreme Court, exactly the same property, education ,work and so on.. rights as the Jewish, Christian,Druze etc population.
@@alyskabbfurthermore they get the benefit of not having to serve in the army .
As I understand:
In 711ad till 1050 , till the crucades had to start because the arabs and Turks blocked trade from west to east crossing Jerusalem. (+all the other reasons)
In 1890 many russian jews bought land in Israël desert from goat herds for their future grand or great grand children.
And as jews where good in farming they developped desert farming.
Excellent historical context gentleman. Thank you.
Excellent historical revisionism and denial.
@@user-rg8eh8rl6k Why are you here?
@@user-rg8eh8rl6k What part? All for a ceasefire in the current conflict but this is factually accurate.
@@MrMabloom I don’t think a single part of what he said was anything more than Zionist propaganda, from the false claim that Zionist “purchased” land to ignoring the events of the Nakba he only seems to talk about history when it looks good for his side. I don’t know how you can sit there and seriously say that Israel deserves statehood because they are better than their neighbour’s which is also his unhinged opinion and not factual at all.
It’s easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled.
(Samuel Langhorne Clemens)
This so called expert lost me at no land was stolen!
Really!!
STOP…..
800,000 plus Palestinians who lived in Palestine and owned property fled for fear of being killed and lost all their lands and possessions. They also lost their right to return.
No compensation was ever made.
Till this day, the Zionists are stealing land especially in West Bank via their illegal occupation and settlements.
Over this period the Jewish population of Palestine, composed principally of immigrants, increased from less than 10 per cent in 1917 to over 30 per cent in 1947.
The map signifies exactly that. How Jews comprised 10% of population at end of World War One
That's deep bro
@@primarchvakarian589 It's also directly quoted from Mark Twain (allegedly, and originally) without credit. If I were an English teacher, I'd be disappointed!
Those who believe what this Journo nobody is saying without providing a single citation are the ones who have been fooled. Read history books, don't listen to VPs of think tanks
yeah like take for example ANYONE on this UA-cam sub taking an 'Ayn Rand Institute' seriously
Historically, partition of disputed lands has never made possible a peaceful coexistence. Diametrically opposed peoples cannot occupy the same land at the same time.
Palistine was never stolen,there was never a state to steal it was simply shared and one side chose to declare war instead of building a nation its citizens could be proud of.
Not really true. The zionists already started attacking Palestinians (or Arabs) before 1948. Then they massacred 14 villages, killing men, women and even children. Watch the documentary Tantura.
It's sad that we need to upload and view history lessons on UA-cam now while the Elite Colleges are silent to their students.
Jew-ish europeans are genetically europeans not semitic like arabs and middle eastern jews. so why did david grun (changed his name to be david ben gurion in order to sound like osama ben laden the semitic man) come from Plonks, Pland to Palestine for stealing their land and for the palestinians holocaust???
It's called suppression of the truth. It's not just sad, it's rooted in evil.
Well, at least you can get the education somewhere for free. :)
Elite colleges aren't silent; they spew lies
It's truly sad and embarrassing.
Many trust these maps without a clue about the region's history. The map makers displayed such a lack of honesty or competence that they omitted Egypt and Jordan's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and made no reference to the Jews expelled from Gaza and the West Bank, along with the estimated 850,000 Jews expelled from Arab nations-a figure comparable to the number of early Palestinians refugees.
I've tried to assess the actual evidence, and it's far more difficult, with contradictory evidence and the UN having some of the only reliable demographics from the time--which are themselves inconclusive. But these maps are nowhere close to reality. They're maps for persuasion, not education.
Thank you for giving me more information to digest and consider in what is a very controversial topic. I've been wary of all the various media and sources that seem to be driven by agenda, so it's definitely challenging to make objective sense of it all.
Thanks again and have a nice day.
Look up ‘Political Islam’ warner
Exactly. Where is the context? People are so dumb
@@Byorin The problem is that many books are politically divided into camps of rhetorical echo chambers that cherry-pick history and ignore points against their bias. Then, when you find the truly evidence-based content, it's far more complex and messy. But at least it helps you differentiate between pathological lier and the deluded versus those attempting to make sense in an honest way.
LOL! “The Map Makers … honesty & competence…”
Islam teaches its adherents that it is Good to Lie to the infidels 😮
I may not agree with some of the slant that I perceived but, I very much like how this commentator brings up the principle issue at hand when determining whether EITHER of these groups has some “right” to statehood, because the real issue is dividing humans into classes that are unequal and usually diametrically opposed to the goals and needs of one another, based upon ethnic demographics and cultural background. It is observable through history that establishing a state apparatus to favor one group over any other will ALWAYS trigger violent resistance that can’t be quelled with further violence. Insurgencies happen for a reason and they happen fairly predictably given the right conditions. Violence begets violence, and somehow this doesn’t seem to be any more understood now than 1000 years ago.
I am personally of the belief that ANY time you do this kind of thing, whether you establish a “homeland” for the Jewish people, or you work at exiling this Israeli population to establish some sort of Islam-centric theocracy, what we end up with is having established an ethno-state deeply rooted in non-secular tribalism and nationalism, which are almost always going to be incompatible with social harmony and human rights for ALL people. It’s unfortunate that this topic so often devolves into antisemitic hatred or white supremacist language. Because it is such a complicated issue, which is at its core, centered around a difficult philosophical question regarding peace and conflict and our relationship with the earth itself.
Most nations are ethnocentric. It's normal. English people live in England, French people live in France etc. That's why the post imperial norm was population transfer. Not nice, but better than perpetual war.
Sucks to the ethnostates like Israel. I don’t see an Islamic centric one thou other than more extreme players like Iran or saudis but Palestine and many other majority Muslim country of the region happily accept and respect other faiths and cultures too… could we not work towards a situation where divisions in living space and even boarders just isn’t helpful to anyone? Violence breeds more violence and so does division. We need to put aside extremism of Israel and other extremist groups such as Hamas or the US military warhawks making moola off all these and just encourage peaceful living within diversity … not something Ayn Rand promoted much though as far as I can tell 🙄 she was intensely xenophobic 🤮
I enjoyed your comment, would just like to add that the ethnic homogeneity of these regions is not necessarily something Israel ‘chose,’ so much as Arabs consider themselves as entirely different from Israelis, and so it is the reality. They identify Israelis as non Arab and therefore many Muslim dominant countries don’t like having non Arabic rulers in that region. Currently the Middle East has been through cycles of ethnic cleansing, with many, many other countries forcing out minority ethnic groups. Christians and other minority ethnic groups in Muslim countries are also suffering, but it’s not as talked about for sure.
@@Frettingfret It is important to note that the modern-day concept of Palestine did not exist during the Ottoman Empire. The said region was part of a larger geographical and administrative area, and the concept of a distinct Palestinian national identity only emerged after WW2. emerged in the 20th century.
While it's true that ethnocentrism causes division - it is also true that the State of Israel has a vibrant multicultural minority with equal rights under the law. The same cannot be said for the many regional Muslim countries, most of whom expelled their Jewish populations en masse (or made them offers they couldn't refuse) and are working hard to eradicate their Christian populations. It is important, too, to acknowledge the religious imperial aims of classic Islam with a goal of Dar Islam for the world. That is to say, the conflict is not only about ethnic rivalry but about a clash of endgame objectives. Is it not possible that part of what galls the Islamist world about Israel is that its existence is contrary to the religious blueprint of classical Islamism? Finally, it would be dishonest to discount the centuries of unabating Jew hatred (which has kicked up its ugly head in force recently, but was alive and well even before a Jewish state was established) in a discussion of the need for an ethnocentric Jewish state. As the Jews of Israel are fond of saying, "We have no where else to go."
To reinforce what you said in the video, it is worth mentioning that, strangely enough, the international community did not mention anything about the illegal occupation of Egypt and Jordan. Nor was Palestinian-Arab self-determination demanded during the 19-year-long illegal Arab occupation.
Nikos Sotirakopoulos is wrong when he mentions occupation! Areas conquered by a country that is attacked are not occupied but belong to the attacking country!
Vietnam taught us that mindset is a lie!!!
Ayn Rand was antiwhite. She wanted selfishness for White countries, but unity for Israel.
Isrsel is an occupying country, recognised by the UN as one.... it's settlements in the west bank are only one of its war crimes and designed to steal Palestinian land, Israel's wall is a great example of stealing Palestinian land, there is footage of zionists admitting to stealing Palestinian homes, backed by the Israeli government. Israel is an occupying force and for you to not recognise that shows what a stain on humanity you are. You probably refuse to recognise Israel's genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, other war crimes and human rights abuses and violations. It'd people like you that make sure israel gets away with its crimes from 3 quarters of a century.
You talk rubbish and you don't know anything about international law. That is obvious.
@@adbogo Wonder who's writing nonsense! Then disprove me! 🧐
What was Palestine like before Israel?
Before 1948, Palestine was home to a diverse population of Arabs, Jews, and Christians, as all groups had religious ties to the area, especially the city of Jerusalem.
Funny thing is Jews living in Palestine before Israel, are _still_ living in the occupied territories of Palestine. They reject the Zionist state of Israel.
In 70ad Rome deported all the Jews and then renamed Israel to Palestine to demoralize the Jewish folks.
There is no such thing as a Palestinian....they are Arabs
What was it like? In 1244 when Jews were massacred & expelled from Jerusalem by the Khwarazmiyya Muslims was that because of Israel? When the Ottoman ruler of Jerusalem Murad Bey raped & slaughtered thousands of Jews in Jerusalem & Hevron in 1517 was that because of Israel? When whole communities of Jews were murdered & exiled to Cyprus in 1576 was that because of Israel? When Jews were murdered, raped & tortured during the Jerusalem persecutions from 1623-40 was that because of Israel? When Jews were raped & murdered en masse in 1660 during the Tzfat & Tiberias pogroms was that because of Israel? In 1720 when Ashkenazim were butchered & exiled from Jerusalem & Hurva synagogue was destroyed was that because of Israel? In 1775 when Jews were once again murdered & raped en masse during another Hevron pogrom, was that because of Israel? When Jews were again butchered & raped in 1799 during another Tzfat pogrom, was that because of Israel?
In 1820 when Haim Farhi was murdered & Jews were enslaved was that because of Israel? In 1834 when Jews were again raped & butchered in Tzfat, Hevron & Jerusalem was that because of Israel? In 1851 when R' Avraham S. Z. Zoref was murdered in Jerusalem for the crime of being a Jew, was that because of Israel? In 1873 when Sara Rivlin was raped & murdered, along with her baby who was also murdered, was that because of Israel? And, the 1920 Jerusalem massacre, the 1921 Jaffa massacre, the 1929 Hevron, Tzfat & Jerusalem massacres, the 1936 massacre in Beersheba, the massacres during the 1936-39 Arab riots... was that because of Israel? I can go over the nearly 1000 historically recorded instances of Mizrahi Jews being butchered, raped & tortured throughout the rest of the Middle East & North Africa over the last 1400 years too if you like. When you claim there was "peace before 1948" implying Israel & Zionism are the problem, all you're proving is that you know less than nothing about 1400 year history of Musta'ravi & Mizrahi Jews being persecuted under one Muslim rule after another. You can regurgitate your intellectually lazy propaganda narrative & relish in your imaginary sense of moral superiority, but you cannot change empirical history corroborated by thousands of historigraphical sources. Sorry habibi, but you cannot gaslight the descendants of Musta'ravi & Mizrahi Jews in Israel with your pseudo-history.
Yes, and especially in Jerusalem but not only there, the Crusades killed more Christians, Jihad killed more Muslims and Zionism killed more Jews. They were each antithesis to their own religion.
@@josephbrewster1169Zionism killed more Jews? Than what, jihadis and Christians?
PRO-TIP: If an exponentially more powerful Nation State is oppressing you, don't throw rock(et)s at it or commit acts of violence against it's innocent civilians. Irrespective on whether you're right or wrong on your perspective of the land "rights". Be 'wiser' and find a better way for your children.
That is what the Jews did, took a long time, but now they are strong.
As per the matter at hand, a wise people keep the bulk of their territory, in a collectively held, protected, natural state, for the good of everyone concerned… this preserves a source of change, balance, and.a wisdom, that is beyond the human mind and will to provide, and a wise, well balanced people, recognizes and honors this, allowing the Great Mother her territory…!
Another deception involves map one and map three. In the first map it portrays Jewish populated areas in white, even though Jews didnt have soveriegnty. Yet in map three the Arab settled areas within Israel are not portrayed in green, even though Israel had hundreds of thousands of Arabs, and hundreds of Arab towns. Very dishonest.
actually millions of arabs, there are nearly 2 million arabs in isreal.
@@janehrahan5116 When I said "hundreds of thousands" I was referring to the number of Arabs left in Israel proper in 1948 to 1967, corresponding to map 3.
You weren’t listening. He said this wasn’t a tribal or racial discourse. That there were all tribes in all areas
@doctordan1668 I think I was. Both he and I are talking about inconsistency in what was being portrayed between the maps that resulted in completely false implications.
Thank you!!
You forget that the League of Nations established the Palestine Mandate to be the Jewish National Homeland. The British then gave over 75% of the land to the Arabs and called it Trans-Jordan. So there are already 2 states in Mandated Palestine. The League of Nations also established an Arab National Homeland in what is now Iraq.
When are zionists going to be more creative and come up with better talking points? Lol the old ones don’t work anymore
Correct.
you have a point.
People also forget that the land was bought it was paid for they didn't just take it the League of Nations didn't just give it to anyone the land was paid for the people who lived there were paid for the land and they moved fact. The land was paid for by the rothschilds they bought the land for their posterity.
You're describing was the establishment of Palestine was a distinct political entity for the first time in centuries. While it mentioning a homeland, it did not mention a State, & it included the, “while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced”. What happened to that bit? If you support the Mandate, do you support the right to return of the original inhabitants driven out during the Nakba?
Quick question. Something I always wonder
How come in the past when ever a war ended and any party got a land peice it was their.
And yet Israel on a defensive war gain some land and it called occupied.
Just look at the maps now of the entire world
And compare it to a map from let's say 200 years ago. How many countries got bigger or smaller do to war.
How many countries who got bigger have their extra land called "Occopied"?
If we take the same logic for example with the USA the entire countries is occupied from the Native Americans.
The Israelis do not use the qualification 'occupied territories', but 'disputed territories'.
They talk endlessly about and a scrap of land between the size of Rhode Island and Connecticut (Palestine is 2,324 square miles) but the USA gained 500,000 square miles and all the land of of New Mexico, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, California, Texas, and western Colorado after the Mexican-American war. Increasing its territory by 30%. You are right, that's the way it goes. No bleeding hearts are protesting to give California back to Mexico because it was seized in war, formalized in 1848 - ironically 100 years before the 1948 arab-israeli war where hostile arab nations simultaneously attacked the newly independent Israel........
Apples to oranges, the Jews never ever occupied Palestine, ever, that's a lie.
Ayn Rand was antiwhite. She wanted selfishness for White countries, but unity for Israel.
@@erikdanieli1333 Which becomes apparent, considering that those territories have hosted a political entity under the Palestinian Authorities
Does not matter squat. You want the land, you have to integrate the inhabitants.
That's all.
I'm old enough to remember that prior to 1964 the Arabs called themselves Arabs, not Palestinian. The refugees were Arab refugees, not Palestinian refugees. So, there was no such thing as Arab Palestinians in 1948.
YOU ARE FULL OF DELUSION MISS MAAM.
run ngram[Arabs, Jews, Palestinians] it will give you a time plot.
Arab only invented Palestine to justify war with Israel.
They first started to call themselves Palestinians in 1969 when Arafat created PLO, which just shows the hypocrisy of those people who think it was a Palestinian land.
It never was and never will, because that nickname (Palestine) was a mockery nickname for the Jew’s ancient enemy - the Philistines, given by Hadrian in the Roman Empire days.
The main goal of the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza, or the so called “Palestinians” is to wipe out Israel off the land. It was never about creating their own state and independence.
Go educate yourself and read about Nakba 1948 and 1917 Bilfore declaration
Need to go back many years prior to 1947 when the area was called Judaea. The Roman Empire controlled most of the area at that time and after several conflicts between the Jews and their controlling Roman’s, the empire decided to change the name to philistean which later became Palestine.
It's Hebrew and Jewish Land. Rome never took the Land of Israel.
@@JimBrave-ri1oc
?? Not what i understand, even the Bible states rome ruled over Israel, they had sibordinate kings, governors and leading figures to help run not only Israel but all it's territories.
Never forget that the Ottomans took the Israelites and push them out of the country that was way after the Romans did their trick and guess what the Autumn Empire was mainly dealing with that country would be Iran connect to dots it's not hard
@@JimBrave-ri1oc yes they did. they colonized it
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
Gospel [Last Testament]:
I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying-I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."
Quran [Last Testament]:
Towards The Latter Days, The Children Of Israel Will Be Haughty [Except The Pious Versed In Torah].
The biggest mistake is by the British calling it Palestine after what the Romans called it when they destroyed the second temple and started building temples to their Roman gods.
In the meantime there did remain some Jews in the land though many became exiled.
Eventually the Muslims entered and Islamic factions continued to make life miserable by their constant fighting.
So the truth is that there was no such people that were known as Palestinians.
You don't know your history and Bible all lies and propaganda shame to all the lies
That story about the Romans is fake. There's no evidence. It's just something the Zionists made up.
It was called Palestine since before there was ever such a thing as a Jew.
2000BC inscriptions call it "Paleset" in Egypt. "Philistia" in ancient Greek. That's why when the jews rolled into the area, in their OWN BOOK, they had to fight the "Philistines."
there are. real israelites are Serbs. later called Romans. invaded non stop during history and sacrificed for 2000 years or more. we lived there.
@@progresstothestars The original Israelites still do exist and continued to live in the land.
They are not Serbian neither are they from Europe, they did become scattered being ethnically cleansed from their native homeland.
Stop denying the truth.
@@21gioni original Israelites are I haplogroup. check mu community and you will see the truth.
Rome in Serbian is Rim turned is Mir which means peace.
you are denying the truth not me.
as for Israel, Tukey neolitic skeleton digg outs I2c proves how prosecuted my ancestors and yours were.
northern italy the etruscans? the name is rassena, we had a thorne city called Ras in mediveal time not ot mention MOunt Serbal in Egypt. its too late, you cant deny it anymore. ask francisco if im lying too.
Throughout the years of Palestinians have attacked Israel Time After Time they were offered a deal in 1948 and they rejected that deal and have been at War ever since they've proven the fact that Israel needs that space to defend itself
The palestinian rejectionism goes back to 1937 when their leadership rejected the Peel plan which gave the palestinians 3/4 of the Palestine mandate territory.
It was their land. They didn't have to accept anything. I know the white man thinks he's God Almighty, but the U.S. would NOT have tolerated America being carved up by the U.N. for another people. Why wasn't land taken off Germany?
5 times offered a pace deal and 5 times they said No
Is it true that the majority of Arabs who were living inside the area that became the Israeli State in 1948, were expelled by Israel and fled to Gaza?
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
Gospel [Last Testament]:
I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying-I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."
Quran [Last Testament]:
Towards The Latter Days, The Children Of Israel Will Be Haughty [Except The Pious Versed In Torah].
Abraham was promised the land from God and did not live in it. Neither did Issac or Ishmael. Nether Jacob and his twelve sons. Jacob moved to Egypt never possessing the land. Moses brought the Israelites to the land. Joshua led Israel into the land destroying everything but Salem which others lived in. This is how the Jews claim the land. Finally David conquered Salem and called it the City of David. Later known as Jerusalem. The earned the land by force. If they say it’s still their land because they had it before than with that same theory it is owned by Melchezadek and his people. It is owned by the people that lived in it before Israel. Did Israel abandon the land when they moved to Egypt?
I still remember well a quote by my fellow Dutchman, Jew, Lawyer, Teacher, Zionist and finally Anti-Zionist Jacob Israël de Haan. As a correspondent in Palestine for the Rotterdamsche Courant in the 1930-ties he wrote: "The Jewish people may be a people without a homeland, but Palestine certainly is not a land without a people". He was murdered around 1936 by the Haganah when he left his synagogue in Jerusalem.
Excellent quote. Ty
👏👏👏
Very well said.
And from that group (i.e. Hagana) the Stern gang was created to terrorize the locals, even Albert Einstein wanted nothing to do with them he knew the truth.
Yup, the UN created a state for a stateless people by creating a stateless people.....problem solved...????? The West is collectively to blame for the current crisis in Palestine!
What I’m very surprised to see left out of this discussion regarding the importance of context is the fact that it leaves out the 4/5 of British Mandate Palestine that included ALL of Jordan and a small part of Syria, Lebanon and Egypt. And that doesn’t include the French Mandate.
Because the mandate had no real legal standing. It was a hoax.
Apparently many Arabs from Trans Jordania moved west after 1922 ?
Arabs no Palestinians then
@@phillipweyers8915 You mean refugee Palestinians.
Apparently under what was deemed as a legal document, the Arabs demanded all the land be divided to the Arabs themselves with no Jewish state or land. The British Empire verbally agreed to these terms & conditions with the ambassador for the Palestinian people. It never came to fruition because back in Briton (spelt at the time) denied this clause. Ultimately this led to the Zionists & the Rothchilds demands to give land to the Jewish people who were expelled from the middle east & Europe during WW1 & WW2. It was under the British Empire, through Arab nepotism, land was given to the Arab leaders uncle and son which was as you rightly say, Egypt and Syria.
yes they came for the well paying jobs of the British@@phillipweyers8915
Where are Cadastral Surveyors those collected data for this map? And where are Cartographers those mapped it out? That should be the first objective question.
All that was for philistines then it became for Israel nothing like Palestinian land,period.
Points you overlooked mentioning is that in addition to Israel, Egypt also imposed a blockade to Gaza after the election of Hamas and them rejecting peace. Also the conflicts Palestinians instigated in neighboring Arab countries (Black September, Lebanon Civil War, etc.)
Hamas is part of the Muslim botherhood movement?
This is ALWAYS ignored - the “palestinians” were no different to the Jordanians or Lebanese when they were within their borders - while the young children themselves are blameless, as a “people” the “palestinians” have only ever lived to cause the suffering of others. They have never even considered becoming a legitimate state, none of their “allies” have ever attempted to help them establish one, they are on the GODDAMN MEDITERRANEAN for fucks sake - not sure how much you know about history but that’s generally considered a good opening position for a civilization, but no, they have rejected all opportunities of every kind except the opportunity to be the spearhead of Islamism against ANY Jewish state. I believe this conflict will be the dividing line of the modern world, if my fellow Americans can’t get behind the idea that we should ensure the Jews are not eradicated then as far as I’m concerned they are no longer my countrymen and I abandon them to whatever fate awaits them - God bless Israel and may he guard them and keep them safe in this dark time…
Translation. Its a terrorist camp. Always has been. The leaders of the surrounding areas openly say that.
Palestine(philistines) is a terrorist camp, theyve rejected numerous peace deals. Its the only reason for its existence.
After the previous king of Jordan caved and allowed them into his country, the Palestinians began kidnapping and violence to the extent that he said “never again!” Wherever the Palestinians go, chaos and violence ensues
So in other words, this video is complete biased bullcrap and should be ignored by anyone with half a brain.
People don't think and behave, they'll always behave how they feel. That's just the way it currently is.
What is the Likoud charter?
Before 632 ade what labd belonged to whom ?
What was the dominant religion
The answer to those questions might be interesting to some people and have moral weight but are entirely irrelevant in terms of international law regarding the question of who legally owns the land.
@user-fx5tm1ll4k relevantvin claims of histo8 ownership
1848 >>> 1922 >>> 1900>>> back back
Lot of ownership here not real documentation even.
British sliced it up like a big 🎂 not really considering reality
Also 1948 rejection of UN Resolutions by Arabs( not called Palestinians then ) and rejection again by Yaser Arafat of a solution later now wipes all this off the table.
It becomes irrelevant.
Christianity and Judaism
@@samuelgoldring9691jews were expelled. So no
there were a series of occupiers - pagan Romans, followed by Christian conquerors, followed by Mamelukes..... All of the conquerors came and went, the last two were the Ottomans (Muslim) and the British
Part of land in Palestine was legally purchased by Jews from the owners of the land. In 1920th my parents were children living in Romania in families with low income. After Hanukkah holidays they would bring their pennies to people departing to Palestine for purchasing land to build a kibbutz. My parents didn’t live to see Israel, but I visited it several times and I stayed in kibbutz.
I did not know that. What a heartwarming gesture. Thank you for sharing.
The main thing that this shows is that all of the peace loving, decent people all over the world have been stood upon by corrupt governments who don’t care about them or their welfare. It is extremely sad this world we are living in 🥺
God will change everything for the better in the kingdom he has promised us..
God refers to this land as “my land”
In the book of Ezekiel
@@George-vu7xh Part of a comic called the bible
@@englishalan222Be sure to tell God that when you have your face-to-face meeting, when you see Him as He is.
The most important factor is , who are the indigenous people of that land
Answer: The Jews are the indigenous people. They are the only people to have had a country in that land in well over 3,000 years, and they've never had a country anywhere else on Earth.
@@lennardchurch8483Then why were the Jews and the rest of the 12 Tribes of Israel lived in a state of diaspora instead of maintaining their ground living in Israel for the past 3000 years? Why even exile in the first place when it’s their land? Is the Israelite covenant between God unconditional or conditional when owning the land? If it was the former regarding the covenant then why the diaspora?
Some Jews believe that only through Divine Intervention where God brings the Messiah ben David would usher in the revival of the Kingdom of Israel.
@@psiignoramus9486
Ancient Israel was conquered, and many of the Jews expelled into exile, during which time the land of Israel passed through the possession of several empires before the British Empire finally invited the Jewish people to return to their ancestral homeland.
God's covenant with Israel has conditional and unconditional components. The land of Israel was conquered multiple times as a result of their unfaithfulness, and when they turned back to God, their country in the land was restored. And it was prophesized in the Bible that in the end times, the Israelites would be restored to their ancestral homeland of Israel, which is what happened after WW2.
The Messiah has already come, roughly 2,000 years ago. Many Jews rejected the Messiah, because He wasn't what they wanted Him to be (they wanted a conqueror who'd throw out the Romans), but the Messiah was there to fight for people's souls, to extend the offer of salvation to the whole world.
@@lennardchurch8483Ok if this ends on the note regarding Jesus is The Messiah. Still don’t understand how can Israelites covenant with God be both unconditional and conditional at the same time so I’ll have to read further on that.
However aren’t there different schools of thought regarding how the Jews understood Messianology or Christology for that matter? Some Jews believe in one man who will fulfill both the Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David prophecies which is what the vast majority of Christians believe in regarding their Christology on top Messiah meaning Savior and Jesus being God to rationalize how one person can hold both offices of Messiahship.
While other Jews as to what the Qumran Jews who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls, The Essene Jews, the Nazarenes, and oddly enough what some Shia Muslims believed in a Christology that is completely different where there are Two Persons that will come and fulfill the offices of Messiah: A Priest and A King (aka Polymessianism which used to be a dominant view of some Jews before the Medieval Era). They believe Jesus only fulfilled the Messiah ben Joseph (aka Messianic Priest) prophecies and have yet to wait for the Messiah ben David (aka Messianic King).
Jews will still be punished though for rejecting Jesus fulfilling the Messiah ben Joseph prophecies.
So for their interests Jesus has strictly fulfilled the Messiah ben Joseph prophecies (aka The Messianic Priest) given John 18:36 declaring his kingdom is not of this world which is not befitting of what a Messiah ben David should say. The geneologies in both Matthew and Luke attempt to paint the picture regarding Jesus being of Davidic descent but both sides fail miserably given the contradictions where Joseph is not the real biological father of Jesus. And Mary being a Priestess serving in the Levite Temple prior to Jesus along with her cousin Elizabeth who is of Levite descent which is not befitting of her stature as being of Davidic descent.
Nothing about Zionism screams Divine Intervention of Jews and the rest of the 12 Tribes of Israel can finally return to Israel given its origin story. It’s just colonialism 101. Any nation can colonize other. All it takes is resources, military might, backing from other nations, and technological advancements. None of this is Divine Intervention.
@@psiignoramus9486 Jesus is genetically descended from King David's priestly line through Mary, his mother, and legally from the Kingly line through Joseph, his adopted father. As such Jesus does fulfill both prophesized roles as the king and priest.
What does Nakba mean?
Truth. The sad fact Is that the Palestinian people are unable or unwilling to build a functioning state, nor are the surrounding Arab nations who had an opportunity to facilitate that are/were willing to do so, namely Egypt and Jordan.
This is not actually true, pre 1948 it had a functioning state, its after the fact things changed. The parts of land this video says were egyptian and jordanian land weren't, but those nations did administer it for the palestinians for decades (so egypt and jordan did try to help, including militarily). The state of Palestine had actually existed as a state since ancient greeks, its where the world philestine comes from! Anyone denying this is washing history and is just as bad as a holocaust denier. The bigger question though is why do they need to be a functioning state as we call it? and why does not being a functional state give europeans the right to take their land from them and give to someone else? Couldnt they have just been left to their land in peace?
How can the Palestinians build anything let alone a sovereign country. The Israelis stopped all trade going in and out of Palestine. They forbid them from having any meaningful industry. They forbid them freedom of movement, they forbid them on every count of being independent and self governing. Remove the chains of occupation, remove the lockdown of water, electricity, gas, ability to organize company's and import and export with anyone they wish, and the world will see what this brave, tough, intelligent rsce is capable of.
Egypt are doing a lot to Palestine more than any nation and everyone who knows history knows that, Egypt build Raffah road so that the provide Gaza with necessary supplies and when diplomatic problems occur because of that we send necessary supplies for underground tunnels but the problem occurred when some traitors informed Israel about these tunnels and Israel used these tunnels to run operations in Egypt that caused the death of many Egyptians and this is when the president (Abd El Fatah El Sisi) chose to close the tunnels for the safety of Egyptians even though we refused that but he forced his decision. the problem is. Israel not Egypt or Palestine.
hard to build a state if bombs rain or if families are getting kicked out of their houses. The lack of thinking is worrying
@@SamGordon-em5eg No, it didn't. Prior to 1948, we have the British Mandate for Palestine, ruled by the Brits and created for the Jews. The Arabs already got the Transjordan so, the rest should be for the Jews but to muslims, any land conquered by Islam must always a muslim land so, they can't accept that Jews have restored a country for themselves.
It was a British mandate after WWI. Roman Empire map dated 500 CE. Showed the land belonged to Israel. After they defeated Israel they renamed it Palestina.
And some references back to 1198bc have shown the 12 kingdoms of Israel. It has always been Israelite / Jewish land. They built the first temple that was toppled by others, which is where the mosque stands now. All of these invaders think because they came in and killed everyone and squatted it's their land. It has never been Palestinian land. They are like the gypsies of the middle East. Nobody wants them. No neighboring country wants to take them in that end of itself. Prove something.
To spite the Isrealis. It was named Palestine by the Romans to spite the Jews. Note Palestinians did not even have the power to name themselves because they were never a sovereign state or never a nation on their own.
@@zaezi189 Israel has a helluva way of acquiring property they want to own using the blood of another group of people as payment.
Shame on Israel
Shame on Israel
Shame on Israel
Keep justifying to yourselves
@@user-op9de9gc2w Not much difference between netanyahu and putin ~ both like taking land that is not theirs and both like murdering innocent civilians enmass.
Maybe putin has some unused land in russia that these jews can live in without having to murder the indigenous people first?
Would that not be a welcomed improvement?!
One thing that always seems to be missed is that "Hamas v Israeli government" and "The rights of the Palestinians to land v the rights of the jews to land" are two entirely different questions. Thinking that the Palestinians have a fair complaint that they are being squeezed into ever smaller areas does not equate to supporting Hamas. Thinking Israel has a right to take measures to defend itself from Hamas attacks does not mean you support Gaza being indescriminately turned to rubble. I can't offer a solution though. Both sides seemed to have dialled up the rhetoric to the point where total annihilation of the other side is seen as a reasoned outcome.
Very well put
Just ask yourself, now and ever before who instigated the violence and strived for peace and quiet. You will find that the Palestinians are always attacking and israel is always trying to have peace
@@yuvalefrati8550the obvious proof will be ignored. The Israelis developed numerous ways to defend their people, i.e., the iron dome. How does Hamas defend their people? They are the governing party after all, they should defend their own people.
@@jacobbay3114 they took all the food and gasoline from their own people. They built their biggest bunkers underneath the hospitals. And they brutelize the Palestinians daily more than israel does
Hamas didn't come along until 2006 and Israel helped to create them and refuses to allow anyone else in leadership. And has funded them over the years.
The Abrahamic Covenant.
And God said, 'I Am your exceedingly great reward.'
Though Abram who became Abraham was flawed he obeyed.
Izaak carried the covenant blessing on Ishmael didn't, though Abraham wanted them both to have the blessing.
Besides all that, Calvary's Mount is of inestimable amount.
'Before Abraham I Am.'
We do not sometimes Understand what are you talking about
1st CHRONICLES CHAPTER 1: VERSE 12. PATHRUSIM ,AND CASLUHIM [ OG WHOM CAME THE PHILISTINES, ) AND CAPHTHORIM.
EXODUS 13: VERSE 17. THE LAND OF THE PHILISTINES. EGYPT [ BETWEEN THE NILE RIVER AND BETWEEN SINAI PENINSULA REGIONS LAND ]
1ST SAMUEL CHAPTER 21. VERSE 9. GOLIATH THE PHILISTINES
PSALMS CHAPTER 105: VERSE 23. THE LAND OF HAM [ OR HAMETH]
IN EGYPT 🇪🇬
PSALMS CHAPTER 106: VERSE 22. THE LAND OF HAM [ HAMETH]
IN EGYPT 🇪🇬
Most palestinian arabs are descended from arabs from other places that moved to the British Palestine mandate, the same time many Jews moved there. For the same reasons, because British Palestine was a great place to live in comparison to many other places in the region. There were jobs, there were freedoms, there was peace (not entirely for sure, but compared to other places). At the time the mandate was set up, very very few people lived in the area at all. So saying it is "their land" is a bit disingenuous.
The debate is often so absurd with activists denying any migration.
Funny for the immigration fetishists to disregard this
UK was disingenuous as far as their own (and later League of Nations') promise that land to the Jews.
@@SonderDAzeX Deserted no. Sparsely populated desert yes.
I thought Arab Muslims lived in the land for many centuries ago and build a mosque with the golden dome in Jerusalem. Didn't muslim Arabs lead by a Kurdish Salahdiin kick the Christians crusaders out many centuries ago. What Is this new history or what.
Mr. Journo should make a map showing the desert that Israel converted into productive farmland. I think the world needs to know that Israel has taken land of no value and made it into paradise. Now Palestinians want this land.
Israel created a prosperous, productive, and inclusive society from nothing. 1/5 of Nobel Prize winners are Jewish, but only 1 is Palestinian, which was Arafat who broke the peace shortly after receiving the award. Palestinians would do themselves an incalculable favor by peacefully joining Israel in a single state solution.
@@aliensoup2420Nobel Peace Prize is a joke. Please, let's not talk of the Peace Prize in the same breath as the other Nobel Prizes. Doing so brings down the overall reputation of the Nobel prizes.
Totally agree
But don't you know that palestine were living in these desert before Israel kick them and turn it to paradise they didn't ask Israel a lot they just want thir land no one cares whether it were desert or forst or paradise
@zayed2023 not their land anymore. The Arabs started 3 wars and lost them all, and if you start wars and then lose them, the borders may change. Take a look at the maps of Europe from before and after the two world wars.
@Leo_Pard_A4 its just that after ww2 the world decided that nobody can keep land they invade.
You need to talk to Jewish Prof Normal Finkelstein and Ilan Pappe. They actually back up what they say with evidence.
“There is no such thing as Palestinian land”, clearly defines the problem.
Correct. No state of "Palestine" ever existed. And land can't be a possession of an entity that doesn't exist. Ergo, there's no such thing as Palestinian land.
It's never about who lives there, it's always about who it's ruled by.
Yeah the arabs wanted to rule over it. But at we all know how democracy and freedom there is in arabic countries…
Every single human rather live in israel and not “palestine” ruled by islamic jihad on a different universe
Reallyy ?? So who lives there isnt important ? That's how u explain the nakba and 1948 right ?
@@aminebrahmi8034 Yes and no. Would you say Alaska is not part of USA? Or would you say it is still Russian? After all, people with Russian heritage still live there.
Land is ruled by individuals in a very simple sense, and we tend to call those monarchies. The interviewee's argument is misleading, ironic considering he's complaining about an image being misleading.
Owners choose.
@@aminebrahmi8034 You obviously didn't understand the comment...
Two state solution was applied to India and Pakistan too and failed. "From the River to the Sea" is somewhat familiar to us in India with an archaic Islamic WAQF Board staking claim to any land in perpetuity, in the name of Allah. This board has become the third largest landowner in the country - probably more land than Pakistan in acreage! So far, they've claimed temples which are much older than Islam, entire villages where people have been living since generations, and even large parts of our cities! The current Israel/Palestine conflict has brought into focus the sharp differences in our society as well.
well there may have been violence between India and Pakistan but the 2 state solution has pretty much been successful. why do you say it failed?
@@stevea6816 Pakistan and muslims living in India are never sstisfied with what they've got..they always want more.. Pakistan want whole of Kashmir and always send terrorists who infiltrate Indian territory..Pakistan is most of the time on the brink of war with India.. extremists muslim organizations in India want to convert the whole country into an Islamic state and get back to medieval times with Mughal empire rule...they often create unrest in areas where they are in majority.. while they already have specific laws in their favour such as Muslim Personal Law...
@@stevea6816 Muslims didn't fully migrate to Pakistan , even after getting separate country .
@@utsavpawar7015 Because while Pakistan was meant to be for Muslims, India was meant to be for everyone, including Muslims. 2 state solution has not been perfect (in fact its divided into 3 states now when you include Bangladesh which came from Pakistan) but it has generally been successful.
I wont call it a failure
We all know this issue did not start at 1947. This map progression is for the purpose of serving Palestinians narrative and not the truth.
The Zionists wanted Palestine. Only thanks to the Hollocaust in Europe, the Jews got that land. Then people who already mixed themselves with Europeans, Americans and Russians for 20 generations started to move to Israel, claiming it as their land. The hard core zionists wanted a land for jews only. That's why they used the slogan A land without people for people without land. When the UN gave Ben Gurion half of Palestine, his far right orthodox zionists weren't happy. But Ben Gurion said : it's okay for now, the other part will come later.
It's very hard for me to be in line with anyone who reveres Ayn Rand, who was just a terrible person. But this organization is right on Israel so I appreciate that.
And with the same reasoning I assume he could say that land was never taken from the Native Americans by Europeans because the Native Americans never even had the concept of land ownership.
In this case , the natives are the jews!
Exactly as I mentioned they were lured to selling and forced into refuge camps in neighboring countries for the last 75 years spent born and died ... children and grandchildren...
exactly, colonizer propaganda used to justify their actions
The native Americans fought with each other to control hunting rights to areas of land. That the same thing, control of the land.
The Chippewa-Ojibwa in Michigan received a massive pristine land allotment IN VOLUNTARY EXCHANGE for giving up their claims to any lands out side of it. They promptly began to sell it off for the valuable timber. Most of them had squandered it, and their children were then left with no 'tribal home'. People felt sorry for them, so the state of Michigan gave them ANOTHER massive allocation of pristine wilderness, this time placed in TRUST so they could NOT sell it off and squander the money, be broke again in 10 years. This incompetence, corruption, and inter-fighting amongst themselves is ALSO the story for many Native tribes. Many nations/tribes had to have their lands placed into TRUSTS for this reason.
What is interesting about all this is that so many put forward this idea of Palestinians being some predecessor peoples. The "native" Arabs of the "Palestinian" area are actually Negev Bedouins, who are frequently persecuted by the Palestinian movement. They are only allowed citizenship in Israel - the PA refuses to recognise them as people - or in Jordan, the nationality of most "Palestinian" Arabs (keep in mind, Jordan is the easternmost area of Mandate Palestine. The region it was in was called Transjordan - meaning across the Jordan - and was the "Arab" allocation in the Balfour Declaration and WWI era agreements with the Hashemites). Now, the Jews of the Negev and the Bedouins of the Negev tended to coexist rather well (the Bedouins are traditionally desert nomads, whereas the Jews tended to live in established villages - a point that is one of the few contentions between Bedouin Israelis and Jewish Israelis today, where western civilisation doesn't really account for nomads well) - but these maps of "Palestinian" land never even recognise other Arab groups with far longer histories in the region than the "Palestinians"! Which rubbishes the argument it's Arab vs Israeli.
I knew that the Arabs living in Israel were mostly Christian, Bedouin and Druze but the rest of the information is new to me.Thank you
Wow, where did you quote this new history? Again, historical revisions
Well in the Bible the Israelites came from Aegean modern day Syria to Canaan modern day Israel. And the philistines came from Crete modern day Greece to Canaan modern day Israel. They both arrived to Canaan ie modern day Israel around same time the Bible says. The philistines were always trying to kill the Israelites God called them heathens and a thorn in Israelites side. And when they came back from exodus from Egypt the trying to kill the Israelites continued. And this time with other groups ie arab groups hating them too. The Israelites and thr philistines were the Canaanites the ppl of Canaan. And Egypt ruled Canaan 350-400 years many of the Gazans have a lot of Egyptian blood. It seems the Palestinians in Gaza are more of Egyptian descent. And the Palestinians that never left Israel are a mix of Greek and Arab.
@@rhodaberger7262 This is false. Ethnic Palestinian Muslims (if we use that term anachronistically) have been the vast bulk of region's population since at least the mid-1300s. In the British Census in 1917, Christians were roughly 70,000 people whereas the combined Muslim population was roughly 525,000 people. If we remove the Bedouins and Druze from that number, we should conservatively still have 450,000 ethnic Palestinian Muslims.
@@oremfrien So you're saying the muslims are settler colonials and should be removed.
no?
then the jews aren't either. Simple as.
When I was a child(I'm 37), I learned from maps that what is called nowadays "The West Bank" was "Cisjordan". Later I learnt it was because lands on the far side(looking from the Mediterranean) of the Jordan river were called Transjordan(beyond the Jordan) and the lands on the near side were "Cisjordan". These are the old regional names left from the Romans(I would imagine there are local Arabic and Hebrew names for these lands). The point was that the area was connected to Jordan, at least linguistically. And I am from a completely removed country from either sides of the conflict...
It's called Cisjordânia in Brazil/Portugal
Do you have a point?
It doesn't matter now what history is saying. No one is agreeing on the history. The thing to do now is to decide what to do.
1)Before the modern state of Israel there was the British mandate, Not a Palestinian state .
2) Before the British mandate there was the ottoman empire, Not a Palestinian state .
3) Before the ottoman empire there was the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt, Not a Palestinian state .
4)Before the Islamic mamluk sultanate of Egypt there was the ayyubid dynasty, Not a Palestinian state .Godfrey of bouillon conquered it in 1099.
5) Before the ayyubid dynasty there was the christian kingdom of Jerusalem, Not a Palestinian state .
6) Before the christian kingdom of Jerusalem there was the Fatimid caliphate, Not a Palestinian state .
7) Before the Fatimid caliphate there was the byzantine empire, Not a Palestinian state .
😎 Before the byzantine empire there was the Roman empire, Not a Palestinian state .
9) Before the Roman empire there was the hasmonean dynasty, Not a Palestinian state .
10)Before the hasmonean dynasty there was the Seleucid empire,Not a Palestinian state .
11) Before the Seleucid empire there was the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon, Not a Palestinian state .
12) Before the empire of Alexander the 3rd of Macedon there was the Persian empire, Not a Palestinian state .
13) Before the Persian empire there was the Babylonian empire, Not a Palestinian state .
14) Before the Babylonian empire there was the kingdoms of Israel and Judea, Not a Palestinian state .
15) Before the kingdoms of Israel and Judea there was the kingdom of Israel, Not a Palestinian state .
16) Before the kingdom of Israel there was the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel, Not a Palestinian state .
17) Before the theocracy of the 12 tribes of Israel there was the individual state of Canaan, Not a Palestinian state .
In fact in this corner of the earth there was everything but a Palestinian state!
Origins @voiceofisrael
yes!
People don't magically disappear, and change their skin colour after they've been conquered. People didn't lose rights to their land after converting to Islam. The Christians and their holy sites were protected under Islamic rule. These only changed after the Zionists established their illegal occupation and pushed out the locals towards Gaza
before 1947, there was no Israel. Just Palestine . check the 1908 Bibles
@@colinbrown7305 Transjordan got 80% of what was once Israel. At the time of the UN discussion, Arab/Muslim nations opposed it based on Islamic rule (once conquered by Islam, it must always be Muslim land, see Andalusia/Spain), and said nothing about a "Palestinian" people except that there were none. From 1948-1967, Gaza was controlled by Egypt and Judea/Samaria by Jordan. "Palestinians" never complained of occupation.
Israel is 0.04% of the ME. They have no land to trade and Islam has no peace to offer.
The nation state is quite a modern concept drawn up by colonial powers, especially in this region. Israel is a nation because the mechanisms exist to declare it so. In the past it was all about your ability to defend and rule an area under your control, thats what defined your borders..
Theoretically as an Israeli, by definition I am Palestinian and Israel could have been called the Nation of Palestine, but people tend to misunderstand the Arab notion of Palestine and the region called Palestine.
Edit: why are people so mad 🤣 I think yall missed the part where I said I am Israeli, was born in Rishon Letzion.
Palestine is the foreign greek name for the region. Israel is the true name of the region. Like germany and deutschland. but additionally, israel is a name given to the region by God :)
It was Palestine and it'll still Palestine
@@zayed2023 The P sound is not in arabic language, even today. There is "Palestine" geographic area (greater Judea that Roman emperor had renamed, with a reference to Philistinians, who were not arabic people.) But there are no palestinian people. Yaser Arafat was born in Egypt but his last name points to Saudi Arabia.
@@zayed2023I am told even the Koran does not refer to Palestine but only to Children Of Israel. That the Romans who had dispossessed the Jews called it Palestine to humiliate the Jews.
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
Gospel [Last Testament]:
I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but are lying-I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you."
Quran [Last Testament]:
Towards The Latter Days, The Children Of Israel Will Be Haughty [Except The Pious Versed In Torah].
The Romans, the Ottoman Empire and the British Empire needs to be asked before 1947, when they were invading the land and occupied it before the Israelis fought and established themselves as a State, whose land were they invading, the Palestinians or the Israelis?
Answer: YES!
You cannot grant the status of a state to people that won't live in peace with their neighbors, more then that, whose declared objective of its leaders is the eradication of its neighbor, instead of focusing on building their own state in a peaceful way.
Ha ha ha. Do you think Israel was built in a peaceful way? They fought the Brits away who helped them to come to that place in the first place.
All states are founded and maintained though violence and aggression. I thought objectivists understood that.
@@spearview, die Juden begannen erst dann, gegen die Engländer zu kämpfen, als diese dazu übergingen, die jüdische Einwanderung massiv einzuschränken.
Very well put, so very true.
Modern jews have no connection to ancient jews....this land was original inhabitated by cananites...read cananites genocide by Israelites and occupation of Canan land written in Torah and Bible.... modern jews are converted pagan white European like sepharadi, ashkenazi before Christianity spread in Europe and intermarriage... converted bkack ethopian jews, converted Yemeni jews, converted persian jews, converted, converted indian jews, converted mountain jews, converted Chinese kaifei jews....look these different jews groups face,eyes,hair,body colour 😅... Palestinians are original descendants of ancient canan and jews people's.... original jews converted to Christianity and Islam....Israelis are afraid if dna test , because they have no middle eastern dna so they called European white jews as ashkenazi in dna test but showing dna from Europe 😅 ...Khazar jews Kingdom, ethopian jews Kingdom, Yemeni jews Kingdom converted to Judaism
My dad told me in the 1970s they’ve been throwing rocks at each other for thousands of years, if you think they will stop in your lifetime you are a fool.
Well I guess I'm a fool for not taking History lessons from some rando's dad
Yes you are @@Difop
@@Difopuneducated tr4sh will be uneducated tr4sh.
Add religion on top and you get Palestine.
@@fotis3v480 Such an educated remark
Mohammed was born in the 7th century, so maybe not thousands of years.
You forgot an essential thing: Jordan did not exist. It was part of the British mandate. Jorden was established by the British mandate for the Arabs under the British mandate. At that time, there were no two nationalities: Jordanians and Palestinians. It's just a new arab country for the arab population under the British mandate getting land and a state. After that, they demanded more, and this map became relevant, but Presenting that without Jordan is the first biggest lie. More than that, in the 1948 war, Jordan took the west bank territory, and they were citizens of Jordan. No one claimed to free the Palestinian West Bank from Jordan until 1968, when Israel concurred that land in the Six-day War. This is the first time in history that this group of people, who are former Jordanian citizens, claim to be part of a different state, Palestine. This is the first time in history that state A conquered a bland, and the people in this land came to have state C. WTF? They need to be part of Jorden. Jordan should take civilian control of the territory and give them citizenship back. And they can live in peace with Israel as part of the peace between Israel and Jordan.
Among so many other problems, the Palestinians are incredibly culturally ignorant of America. I remember back when their bus bombing craze was at its height twenty years ago (right after September 11th!), a Palestinian official was on one of the cable shows to talk about all the terrorism coming out of the West Bank. Just as today, he tried to link it with their grievances and shrieked, "Give me liberty or give me death!!!" As if that was supposed to impress his American host.
I guess it never occurred to this Palestinian that that was all the Israelis he was terrorizing were doing as well: pursuing liberty by freely maintaining an economy and normal life free - i e. Without having to worry about whether every bus they'd get on was about to blow up by a guy screaming "Allahu akbar."
These people come from a culture that teaches them lying to get your way is good. See Quran 3:28. Their culture and religion are both so toxic that they will never be able to be free and successful as a society. Only leftists believe in this "I have to blow myself up, because I am opressed" narrative. Nobody did this before Muslims discovered bombs.
I ain't readin all that.
Then, get out, no one is keeping zionist tied, please leave
the things that lived there in the start were giants from genesis 6, human hybrids if you read the ancient texts. the current Palestinians were phonecians, if you look at the genetic data collected. and they are not giants, and not hybrids created by the watchers.
Same thing happening to the culturally ignorant Americans when the msm fabricated lies about Iran, Russia, China and the Americans are going to ignite WW3 over lies fabricated by its own media.
People have been taking land from each other since the beginning of time. Whoever has the biggest gun can take or keep the land.
Then Israel is not practicing Jewish law
They are practicing jungle law.
While claiming to represent all the Jews of the world .
That's effed up
I see. If dealing with US and europe, might makes right. Got it. Dont worry, asia and asian are fast learner and we are stubborn.
@@nurlindafsihotang49literally how the world operates, not just the west.
It's The Right of Conquest. It has been around since the day of clubs and spears and will continue until the last two humans inhabit the Earth, or Mars if we get there.
To some degree, I agree. But the modern world order, by the UN, is that nations are generally recognized and protected (in a gang-like way), as the normative order. However, what many don't realize is that the UN allows for civil wars, and whoever comes out on top, gets a seat at the UN. So primarily, it's true within nations that the most guns mean legitimacy in many parts of the world, but less true today between nations.
We Japanese like me know the approximately 2000 years’ history of Jewish people . The people who believe Judaism had been suffering from the people who believe Christianity.
Specally the time of regime of Adolf Hitler from 1933 to 1945 had been suffered very profoundly . Actually some Japanese like Dipromat Chiune Senpo Sugihara helped thousands of Jewish people at that time . The descendants of Jewish people he had helped have became to about 250,000 now . General Higuchi Kiichiro also helped thousands of Jewish people at that time . We Japanese are proud of them very very much .
Who was the PM of Palestine in 1947 ? 🤔
This reminds more of a person that sells a rundown home and burnt out farmland. The wants it back after the house is repaired and expanded. Plus the farm is again productive.
Then gets mad when the current owner says no.
I think the designation of Palestine or Palestinian needs to be explained in conversations such as this video. When saying Palestine or Palestinian in reference to Arabs or Muslims it should be said as Palestinian Arab or Palestinian Muslim. Palestine consisted of every religion and every, or at least most ethnicities. So, when discussing this issue of land, it needs to be said that Palestinians as considered by the Romans who invented the name and ruled over the region included all of the inhabitants not just Arabs. So pre 1948 there were Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Christians and so on. I know it might seem unneeded to say this, but most people today don't seem to know that that is how it was. The concepts being taught in our schools today are not the concepts that Gen X and earlier generations were taught.
The Arabs were the majority in 1900.
A better explanation is that the Romans designated the land "Philista" or Philistine. When they defeated the rebellion they killed the Jews and kicked out many more and named the land for the ancient biblical enemies of the Hebrews, the Philistines. Rome did not create a country there; they were erasing the existence of the Jews. Saying that this land is "Philista" means it is "free of Jews" just like the Germans who declared a town "Judenrein" after killing all the Jews in it.
Philistines were part of the Seleucids, who were Greeks, not Arabs, and they went extinct long before the Roman empire, Christianity or Islam existed. If another Arab country is to be created, it makes no sense to name it for an extinct Greek tribe. Arabs descend from the surrounding Arab countries, not ancient Israel. If those Arab countries actually cared about the "Palestinians" (they don't) they would take them in and pay them reparations for what they have done to their own people.
I wonder how Hamas and their numerous supporters would feel about being ruled by a Hashemite king.
Arab Muslims rejected the term "Palestinian" as it was a British term. Only the Jews for the most part accepted the term and had it on their official documents. Let's also be clear that in the 1800s, the population was very low in the entirety of the territory and was that way at the start of the British control. BOTH* British and Jewish advancements in the land made it very inviting to the Arabs who came in at greater amounts (which later, Jews came in on quotas). Jordan is 76 percent of the mandatory and that is somewhat akin to 3/4 of "Palestine" and leave only 1/4 that is being in contention for Jews and Arabs. Candidly that 24 percent should be ALL Israel.
@@michaelmanus7765Everyone that lived there knew "Palestine" wasn't an accurate name for that land; the Romans called it that to emphasize that the Jews were defeated and killed off by naming it for their ancient Greek enemy. People should really stop calling it Palestine.
I don't think schools are teaching Gen X about this at all, they get all their information from propaganda tiktok!!
Though I get the point you’re trying to make even with the first frame of the map, I’m confused at the delineation that you’re suggesting that we take in which we would only show the population densities of Palestinians and Israeli’s. To say a place is only owned by those that have ownership on the land, you would then need for the governance of the land to be equal or benign. The same would suggest that I could then move to an uninhabited part of land and lay claim to it today in northern Canada. We know this simply isn’t true because there is ownership in sorts over the land. I would need to purchase this land.
why not say that 2 million Arab-Muslims live in Israel; 0 Jews live in Arab countries
Let's look at the second map
Sad how I did the horrible mistake of sorting by "newest", They aren't even having a working argument. Truly people believe only in what they choose to believe, no matter the facts shown before them.
Excellent overview of the conflict. I wish they'd discussed the fact that 20% of Israel's population is Muslim (Druze, Bedouins mostly). I want to better understand how they stayed in Israel and live peacefully, yet Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza aren't doing so well.
Over 60 years ago, Israel attracted many Arabic people to work for them, They turned swamp land in a nice country. The arablans (not palestines) had a good life in Israel and were needed to build the country. It's the only country that has peace, minimum death rates and an honest government. In other countries, most Jewish were killed.
And the Druze etc … Muslim by force…. The people of those lands were coerced/forced via the Muslim Conquests .. and beyond.. up to present day… Islam is the problem.
@@dasstraat Ok, that helps. I didn't know that many Muslims migrated into Israel. Now it makes sense why they live peacefully. They literally want to be there.
@@cantrell0817 Countries like Qatar and Saoudi Ariabia need 10 million guest workers this year. All people from Gaza could go there and get a rewarding job. However, first law of hamas tells them to kill Israel, so they prefer to live in the desert and shoot rockets at Israel. I don't understand many things.
No mention of the well documented state of apartheid that many reputable political leaders have said Palestinians live under. This conflict will never be settled.
The current leadership in Israel is incompetent and in Netanyahu’s case, criminally corrupt, bears much responsibility for allowing Hamas to easily burst through Israel’s slipshod defenses.
Why was Bibi asleep at the wheel.
The US continues to prop up the world’s fourth most powerful nuclear nation with billions and billions in aid.
People were living everywhere in the area shown as green on the first map. However, the density of population varied. For example, the bulk of the Negev was populated by transhumant Bedouins. The fact that they were not "civilized" (in the sense that they did not live in settled urban areas) is irrelevant. It doesn't give urbanised people the right to pretend they were not there and making use of the land, albeit at low population density.
Most Bedouins are loyal Israeli citizens. They serve in the army, and know that conditions are much better under Israeli rule.
This is an important point you made. Throughout this interesting, and factually correct tho one sided, discussion justifications are given for the Jews occupying land held by Arabs or "Palestinians" based on there being "no state" , areas "not conducive to human life," and there being no "good society" or "just society" or a government that functions that way a government "should" function. This all represents the same western/modern bias that all colonists took when occupying new land where others had been living for years-- not the least of which is our own Native American people. There is a clash of cultures where one culture fails or understand and respect the other. Granted, the violent organizations that have formed over the years, bent on destroying the Jews in Israel, have left the rest of the world no choice but to condemn them and support the Jewish Israeli state, but it is important to understand how it all came to be from a macro historical perspective.
@@njgal0217 When a lie is repeated often enough, everyone believes it to be true. When there are 2 billion Muslim mouths in the world to repeat the lies, the truth stands little chance.
@@theview613 The Bedouins have never been asked whether they want to be in Israel. Furthermore, such choices are not necessarily based on material considerations. If they were, most Jews migrating to Israel since 1900 would rather have gone to the USA. For now the Bedouins have to make the best of their circumstances.
@@njgal0217 The "violent organisations that have formed over the years" are a response to Israel's overwhelming material military dominance courtesy of the USA. There is no equal playing field for the Palestinians, so their militants instead resort to terrorist tactics, as did the Jews in 1948, when around 800 Palestinian Arab civilians were massacred by what we must regard as Jewish terrorism. Most of the population of Gaza are the descendants of people intimidated into fleeing their homes by these massacres. It also begs the question as to whether the Israeli pilots who have killed several times as many civilians as Hamas recently did are engaged in terrorism. If not, why not?
Yes they did! You know how I know?? I have Palestinian friends who their family are dead in their own home. I learned from the real people of Palestine not from distorted views of the media.
We are talking about human beings. Not chess pieces. So who decides what group is civil enough to be allowed to stay on the land they live on, or should they be kicked- off so a more favored group can be moved in. That is garbage.
That is a gross misrepresentation of the situation. Arabs owned some land, and Jews owned other land. Then the Arabs launched illegal genocidal wars against Israel, and Israel pushed the aggressors back to establish defensible borders, which is a legal acquisition of land under international law. You can't start wars, and retain the right to own land that you lost in the wars that you started. Israel never stole any land from the Arabs. You have to learn the context of each event in the region, and when you do, you'll find that the Arabs have been the instigators every single time.
The bigger context would include a discussion of how muslims, through self initiated war, conquered the Middle East, Northern Africa and most of the Iberian peninsula. The conquered people were coerced and forced to convert to Islam or be oppressed under sharia law. Once a land was conquered it was declared to belong to islam forever, even after the inhabitants succeeded in kicking the muslims out and resuming control of their own land, as happened with the Iberian peninsula.
Well said. It's the same drama, here, in Kashmir. Muslims invaded someone else's land. Then came the British and after the British left, the earlier inhabitants of the land got their land back and the Muslims in Kashmir started playing victims as if the land belonged to them in the first place. They even carried out a genocide of the Hindus but instead claim the Muslims are being eliminated every time a terrorist is killed!
Look what's happening to Europe.
But who's the NGOs, organisations, individuals, lawyer's and groups who are pushing mass immigration into western Europe?
Exactly, diversity for everyone but certain people.
I assumed all land on this earth have been taken, retaken and then taken by somebody entirely Else at some point, lol. Probably even further back than what our knowledge of history is. So where do we draw the line and say that these or those are the rightful owners of that land?
And I dont know enough about the Kashmir conflict, so I just ask; is it possible that the land might even "rightfully belong" to neither Hindus or muslims? Maybe some other ethnic group that was there before both of them had control of that particular land? Who knows...
Stfu Ellie, Muslim this and Muslim that. Every society religion in history has done similar and worst. What's the main point now is the genocide taking place in Gaza. Get off your high horse and see how you'd react after decades of ethnic cleansing by a side with disproportionate military might given be the west.
if the arabs had agreed to the UN plan of 1947, they would have their state for more than 70 years now. instead the attacked Israel several times and got beaten up by the Israelis every time. If you start wars and lose these wars, then you lose land.
And we wonder why massacres happen.
even after they tried to genocide israel, israel still in its founding document considered all arabs as equal citizens and now they kept 2 million arabs . Imagine being so ethical that after ppl try to genocide u , u still seek peace and equality
@@steelcom5976why does israel not massacre Germany after the holocaust? Because we have something your comment proves you don't - A functional brain
I understand, you justify war crimes and the bombing of hospitals?
Well, we were attacked by USSR and lost land, that was never returned
Is the land bought or settled?
Bought. The Jews legally purchased as much land as they could, moved onto it, and then declared independence from the British Empire, with the permission of said empire, to create their own state. Then the surrounding Arabs attacked them without provocation, for the expressed purpose of exterminating the people of Israel, and Israel defended themselves, pushing back the aggressors to establish defensible borders, which is a legal acquisition of land under the international laws of war.
It just goes to show the length these people will go to facilitate the lies.
Not gods children as the true children of god would not continue to lie and ignore others.
These people have absolutely no compassion or humility whatsoever.
I don't know...
Let's set his theory to my nation. Before 1945, there was no Indonesia's government. It was just local people living in their homeland under Dutch occupied. So there wasn't indonesian land and Dutch had right to take and rule the land.
After 1945, Indonesian people chase away Dutch from the land. So did it mean Indonesian rob the land from The Owner/Dutch or Indonesian get back their land from Dutch occupies?
Yeah, the whole "This nation didn't exist there before that one, therefore that one gets to claim it" is a terrible slippery slope meant to excuse blatant colonialism and conquest of the past and present. Not to mention awfully segregationist. While a crude analogy, there's a reason Squatters Rights is a thing in some places where if a property very plainly and explicitly has no one claiming ownership for a long time, then whoever was there for a long time since gets to keep it...
Obviously it has to be something that comes about without hostilities, because then it doesn't matter how many decades went by, if you stole it, you stole it. But if no hostilities were ever involved or a deal was made and accepted? Then the deal is to be respected. I mean for goodness sakes, the USA once did something called the Louisiana Purchase. With all the external funding Israel gets, I am pretty dang sure they could literally just BUY the land from the people still living in Gaza so they could maybe move out with their new riches; It could save on so much heartache, literally and figuratively.
Yes, we DID rob the land from the Dutch. We were literally groups of terrorists living in the Indonesian jungle. It was ONLY when we are recognized as an independent state, recognized by multiple nations INCLUDING the Dutch themselves that we are no longer legally categorized as terrorist/armed organization groups and legally recognized as the country Indonesia.
That is why recognition from other countries are equally important as declaring independence. You can declare your independence as many times as you want but without other nations recognizing your independence, you are still legally by law. A land without sovereignty
@@motokaichou2010 Er... I feel you're mixing two matters there. You don't need to be recognized by another state to BE a Sovereign state, what you need is to be established yourself in general on your own terms, and ready and willing to fend off another Sovereignty out to take yours down.
The idea that people can just conquer lands because they DON'T respect the Sovereignty of other tribes or countries is how we got to this hot mess we call "civilized society" with so many lingering tensions abroad, since many times it came up through hostilities and being forced to take things in stride since, rather than plain organic mingling of people on amicable terms.
Second, you did NOTHING to address the matter of the Dutch taking the land the Indonesians were on in the first place that the other fella pointed out, you're just claiming it belonged to the Dutch and it was taken from them instead till they were forced to play along. Maybe, I dunno, actually elaborate on that and not just say you folks just spawned out from the jungles as terrorists in a vacuum...? Feels like you left out a lot of details in-between.
@@MrMarket1987 The Dutch came into the Nusantara archipelago before the existence of Indonesia during the colonialism era and established their claim to some parts of the islands on Nusantara during which they also fought and divide and conquer native minor Javanese kingdoms at the time. At some time later before/during WW2 (i forgot the exato time) the Dutch left their Nusantara colonies to the mercy of Imperial Japan. At which Japan decided to give the land for the native to declare their own independence basically building their own nation. Of course the notion doesn't sit well with the Dutch as the Nusantara land was initially (legally) theirs and thus they believe its their right on what to do with it.
I am not exactly a historian and that's what basically happens.
The over-glorification of our revolution heroes led us to believe that the colonization and occupation of Indonesia by Dutch and Japan brings nothing but misery while in reality without them we will never even have a united archipelago.
Thank you so much for shedding light onto this subject. We are surrounded by ignorance, and most of it is willful ignorance.
Yes. This was great. I really like Traveling Israel with Oren channel too. He has some great history. Several videos. Between channels like these, and my Smithsonian Book, 'History of the World Map by Map' there is so much history to share. So important.
If you're interested, I watched an interview today as well. It is just about October 7th....
On 'Times of India' channel. Titled, ‘Kill men, capture women’: Interrogation Video of 6 Hamas terrorists who invaded Israel on Oct 7
Modern jews have no connection to ancient jews....this land was original inhabitated by cananites...read cananites genocide by Israelites and occupation of Canan land written in Torah and Bible.... modern jews are converted pagan white European like sepharadi, ashkenazi before Christianity spread in Europe and intermarriage... converted bkack ethopian jews, converted Yemeni jews, converted persian jews, converted, converted indian jews, converted mountain jews, converted Chinese kaifei jews....look these different jews groups face,eyes,hair,body colour 😅... Palestinians are original descendants of ancient canan and jews people's.... original jews converted to Christianity and Islam....Israelis are afraid if dna test , because they have no middle eastern dna so they called European white jews as ashkenazi in dna test but showing dna from Europe 😅 ...Khazar jews Kingdom, ethopian jews Kingdom, Yemeni jews Kingdom converted to Judaism
@@JessJoanneModern jews have no connection to ancient jews....this land was original inhabitated by cananites...read cananites genocide by Israelites and occupation of Canan land written in Torah and Bible.... modern jews are converted pagan white European like sepharadi, ashkenazi before Christianity spread in Europe and intermarriage... converted bkack ethopian jews, converted Yemeni jews, converted persian jews, converted, converted indian jews, converted mountain jews, converted Chinese kaifei jews....look these different jews groups face,eyes,hair,body colour 😅... Palestinians are original descendants of ancient canan and jews people's.... original jews converted to Christianity and Islam....Israelis are afraid if dna test , because they have no middle eastern dna so they called European white jews as ashkenazi in dna test but showing dna from Europe 😅 ...Khazar jews Kingdom, ethopian jews Kingdom, Yemeni jews Kingdom converted to Judaism
Yes, too true!
@@JessJoanne I also follow Oren, and he also does an excellent job presenting real history as opposed to the propaganda that too many people insist on believing.
He says Israel deserves a stare because if Palestinian was left as it was, where Jews and Palestinians lived together in peace, the Palestinian would not be "not at all conducive to human life". Can you believe that?? What crap of an excuse to justify the taking of that land. The undeniable truth os this map is that the Palestinian territory has obviously diminished as Israel has expanded. Thats all you need to know. And I wonder why these clouns didnt invite Norman Finkelstein to help them discuss this map with some facts.
In peace?!! you are delusional and don`t know history at all shut the hell up.
1. What is not clear in this discussion is what does the map of 1937 SHOULD THEREFORE look like as a point of departure? 2/3 of the total population of this land area was Palestine Arabs and 1/3 was Palestine Jews (references TBC). HOW much exactly was each using, and WHICH parts was each using in the supposedly CORRECT MAP? This in not clearly explained. Even if the Palestine Arabs were not using most of the land, because the external power mainly had their own agendas, I feel that the land which they already owned was misappropriated considering their population at the time after the Peel Commission (references TBC).
2. It is ok for a group of people to organize and form a state. But from listening to this discussion and considering the lack of clarity on the occupation of land by each population group, that state should not be formed at the expense of other people (through land misappropriation) even if those people are not organized. You start to do that then war also starts being inevitable. Statehood should not have been forced onto this land by the foreign powers. The people there should have been allowed to come to that idea by themselves.
3. As I see it, Palestine Arabs were never going to accept any deal starting from the Balfour Declaration and Peel Commission. Indeed they were wronged starting from there and the fights they're pushing stem from there especially since the foreign powers who are compiling these deals had their own agendas in the long term. Little consideration was taken on whether or not BOTH population groups were going to leave amicably together long term.
4. I do commend Israel for trying to negotiate but nothing was going to work after 1937, the damaged was done and never corrected appropriately in those negotiations.
5. To be fair, I however feel Palestine Arabs after 1967 should have made a push to form a proper state with the little land they had and improve it to the standard of what Israel were doing with what they had. Simultaneously though get back what you feel is yours strategically, perhaps not through war since the last two instances of 1947 and 1967 prove that you're in a disadvantage. This way at least the Palestine Arabs would no be so vulnerable to poverty as you try to fight for what is yours.
6. Both sides need to start negotiating in good faith.
7. As a South African, if my elders decided to go to war after 1994, probably we would be where Israel and Palestine is today. The damage was done long ago in our case as well and it would not have worked if we decided to not re-address the injustices of the past strategically. As you fight for equality don't kill your own population.
8. Finally, I mainly blame the foreign powers at the time for this mess.
Do you really think that with 22 Arab Muslim countries and 55 Muslim countries - the partition of a Jewish state should have been rationed so carefully? Especially given the longstanding nature of Jew hate in the world at large. Does it not seem reasonable to you that the only (tiny) Jewish state should have been designed to allow for some population growth? Do you realize that the original conception of the Jewish state included both its current boundaries (including the West Bank and Gaza) as well as Jordan but Jordan was shorn off right at the gate. It is a niggardly world that begrudges the Jewish people somewhere they can settle into and be safe from all the haters.
It would be helpful if you showed an accurate first map that shows where no people lived.
Lol
That included most of the land. Hundreds of thousands of Arabs poured into the land to work for the British from 1920-1947.
You really have to wonder what is taught in universities not to mention Palestinian homes and schools if we can have the protests based on ignorance we have today.
It isn't based on ignorance. Listen to the very last of the video. The Islamists want all the land and they want the Jews to go somewhere else. It is simple.
The ignorance comes from people who take everything they see on UA-cam as truth
It is a propaganda war and those college students fell for it because they have been taught to agree with anything woke.
Helps if UA-cam presentations are presented by intellectuals and backed up by experts on alternate platforms. Add hefty doses of skepticism and common sense UA-cam can be a better source of info than attention seeking mainstream media. Seems as though the universities have been tainted with bias and agenda as well and these are people shaping naive minds.seemingly ignoring the age old mission of teaching critical thinking which means being very open to debate not dogma or being the dictators of social policy.
3 k years ago
israel land
Very, very little land was ever “sold” (or traded or bartered) from Arab-Palestinian land owners to Jewish settlers. It was considered taboo and even “forbidden”. Myth: debunked.
The west bank was a part of Jordan and gaza was a part of Egypt until 1967 not palestain.
They open a war on israel in 1967 and lost the land.
Why didn't jordan and Egypt give that land to the Palestinian befor the war?
Why did Egypt didnt want to take gaza back in the peace agreement with Israel?
They know why they didnt want the Palestinian..
"Why didn't jordan and Egypt give that land to the Palestinian befor the war?" "Palestinian" and "Jordainian" are two different names for what are basically the same people. After WWI the Arabs in the region of modern-day Israel hadn't developed a Palestinian identity, wanted no state of their own, and instead wanted to be part of a future Syrian state.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
George Orwell 1984
A lot of right wingers read Orwell and think he is defending the way they think. Orwell stated plainly he wrote everything after the Spanish Civil War in defense of democratic socialism. He also said he felt Lawrence of Arabia was the last intellectual on the right.
To those who are curious, look up the word "nakba", it's the same day Israel was created. Imagine that 😮...
It's a perfect example of not blindly believing in what you see.
Elan Juorno, have you thought about debating Norman Finkelstein??? @AynRandInstitute 🤔🤔🤔
The Philistines are the sea people you’re referring to and they died out 600 years before the Romans arrived when the Judeans inhabited the land. In fact, the Romans gave the land of Israel the name Palestine which was the historical enemy of the Jews (the warfaring sea people who invaded them) to stick it to the Judeans who rebelled against them. There has never been a sovereign Palestine and until 1964 when Russia and the PLO cooked up the concept of a people even smaller than Israel, there had never been a Palestinian Arab people
"After the Arabs are transferred, the country will be wide open for us... not a single village or a single tribe must be left... there is no other solution"
Said the father of forests Yosef Weitz in 1940. He was also known as the architect of transfer…
"Transfer" is a scary, very Nazi-like word for "Ethnic Cleansing" and "Expulsion" . Now we can wait for Israeli state to use the word "Resettlement" which was a Nazi euphemism which was used to refer to the deportation of Jews and others such as the Roma to extermination camps
This map is not a population map. If we were to start erasing maps based on livable lands, almost every country's border would be changed dramatically.
Yeah by that standard half the usa is empty and not part of their country, most of the colonialist in us didn't steal land because the native American weren't sedentary... and Alaska was bought by the US state to some Russian drunk instead of having two government that make a treaty. But then again, how can you recognize a international treaty, when one of the parties doesn't recognize the other as a legitimate country.
Totally. He starts by saying land cannot be owned collectively. Thats literally the definition of a damn country!! If I'm not sitting in my chair you can't come in and sit in my chair. And if you buy my back yard you cant start your own government country rule on my land. My land is under the collective ownership of my country. Thats what a country is. If you buy some unused land and you're American that doesn't mean its no longer ireland. Under irelands rule or laws. This guy is nuts if he thinks just cos somone isn't living on land its up for grabs and can be taken under the rule of isreal because they purchase land in palestine Thats insanity. Absolutely an insane way to think of the world. Just more attempts to justify genocide.
It's because the argument of that land being empty is an argument that has been used since the creation of Israel. How can one steal land if nobody lives on it, how can one be at war if the other side isn't a country, and how can one make peace without recognition of the others existence... and most of all how can one commit genocide if one argues the other side doesn't exist. You'll see soon they'll raise down gaza and say there never were people there.
I guess if the Jews spent so many generations, living with hardcore colonialists, ofcourse the now look, sound, smell & move like colonialist....
This Mr Elan guy made some of the most condescendingly stupid arguments I ever heard.
Their arguments are of typical strawmen.
Jer. 16 But, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the Lord, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
17 For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.
They did but you can be sure that the meanings of some words were modified to make it unclear to anyone trying to find the truth.