Lorient Visit to ORC Outremer (Keel broke off mid-Atlantic - Marsaudon ORC42 Catamaran Part 2)
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- This is a follow up to the video that I put out 2 weeks ago, about a Marsaudon Composites TS42 Catamaran which lost a keel ( • Keel broke off mid-Atl... ). It details a trip to Lorient, at the invite of Grand Large Yachting, the new owners of the yard where my boat was built. We also take a brief look around the area to understand the character of the sailing community there.
John you seem like a very sensible guy, but your emotions are getting the better of you, as there is no decision to make...just take the money!! Your old boat will always be blighted and it will never sell well on the open market. I have had the pleasure of meeting Xavier on several occasions and as you say he is a very, very honourable person and his team are all fantastic people. Do the right thing, take the money and then sit down with Xavier and negotiate a deal for an Outremer, be it new or almost new. Please make the correct decision, as its important that Mrs Lawson's future happiness is also guaranteed, as the ladies always love buying a new boat...even if they hate sailing!!!!
Please do this, good luck and keep us posted!
The price difference between his boat from 2018 ? and today is probably over half a million. I would demand attorney cost to be paid, loss of time , agreement to video tape the repair process and retainment of the video rights. It would be good advertisement for GB and new boat yard, and we would like to see the process of repairing this boat because the structural issues are serious. Good luck with whichever decision you make.
Thanks. I think the comment about the price difference between a 2016 TS42 and an Outremer today is my worry. I paid 461k (ex VAT). I have not looked at used Outremer prices because my expectation is that I'm not in the frame. Already I put in everything I could to buy this boat (which is why I needed to rent it) so I wonder if I would be targeting something that is unachievable? With respect to the ORC42, I agree that I can't change its history, but I wonder if someone who really wants one would prefer to buy one that they've watched be repaired by ORC/Outremer, or one with an unknown history? Finally, the ORC42 is more 'stripped out' than the Outremer, so although it's less comfortable, it could be faster (accepting that both boats are already higher performance than much of the competition).
I agree.
No comparison between a decent TS and decent outremer. Two very different boats and if you love the TS I think it’s unlikely you’ll love the outremer!
Grand Large Yachting's response is exceptional. I wish we started with a -50 ft Outremer instead of a Leopard.
Your fight and the experience are brutal the Leopard name will never fully recover. I praise you and John for your courage and strength and integrity for taking on and exposing the state of this industry. Buy beware was never crueller!
Take the money. Find a way to live happy. Great docu. Be safe. From Germany 🇩🇪
Thank you :).
I would certainly take the money and use it to have another boat build or buy an existing one with all the right surveys and paperwork.Anyway good luck with whatever you decide John.
"people feel hurt" about the video is a non-argument. They should feel ashamed, not hurt and they should not be in the industry if they can't deliver quality product (and even can't admit their faults!). I admire your perseverance and constructive approach.
That's the very same thing I thought - it should rather be shame that they are feeling.
Hurt feeling is one thing dying at sea is another The old CEO should start a cement boot company then he won’t need a complaint depart and peoples feelings couldn’t be hurt.
That's a Flawed comment!
the people responsible feel responsible even though not threatened, those are the key people that worked at Marsaudon years back... like Marsaudon himself.
The people hurt are those with no responsability in this mess, that includes GLY who only bought parts of a bankrupt company.
Still one could argue that they should have inquired more before buying the assets of Marsaudon... and the potential of a youtube post going viral.
Not flawed the old CEO was kept on in the new company. The new Co is hopefully rectifying the sins of the old.
@@kirkbowman7452 Marsaudon is kept as a consultant, he is now a lot more experienced than he was 8 years back... so keep him as a consultant is beneficial to both GLY... and the future buyers of boats built by OCR and GYL in general.
the fact he is kept as a consultant should not make GLY's ceo "feel ashamed" of anything even less responsible for all the flaws of the marsaudon boats...
GLY bought the assets from a bankrupt company, not a company as a whole with a brand name associated. the difference is very significant.
Outremer has long been my favourite boats. Glad to see they stand behind their products. Yes please to a repair series
Outremer did not build the Marsaudon yachts.
I know that, I am talking about their general approach to this issue and openess of their own production. TS's were my second favourite....
Bankruptcy law screws the creditors
Keep going! This is an exceptionally interesting story!
Yes, please make the video series. It would be an amazing insight into how professional boat builders approach repairs.
The best boat builders dont need to make repairs ;-)
But in truth, I think if your epoxy cure time and vaccum is wrong, it'll never harden right and can only be repaired by remaking it. But hey i dont build boats.
Making this public like this for sure makes a huge difference because it brings light of the situation to the world. Don't stop. Keep the pressure on by making these videos because it seems like this is the best and only way to resolve it! I was looking at getting an ORC but possibly a new Outremer 55 but now I'll wait till this gets resolved to the highest level and you are fully compensated. Keep us posted. I believe that they will do a top quality work to fix your boat if you decide to keep it since you will be able to film the process and when you go to sell it, it won't devalue since everything is filmed but they have to find all the locations that the fibers were not infused with reason. That might be a difficult job since everything is covered up with paint. If you decide to take the cash for what you paid for it than the cost of replacing your boat with a like kind boat will be difficult because everything has gone up in price but you will be back out on the water sooner if you decide to get it fixed. Make sure that you get a guarantee like a new boat gets for workmanship if you decide to fix it. Personally, I'd get it fixed so that you can continue the adventure and have the time of your lives. You could always take the money and get something else. Bravo on doing such an excellent job on these two videos!
Even with a positive resolution, buying a boat built in France seems a gamble since no real certification is happening.
@@TerryKeeverI'm not sure about what a certification really means except for insurance purposes. I think it's supposed to be more regulated than a home built.
Thanks. You have summed up my thoughts perfectly.
Wonder if Ultrasound can help to identify weak or non fused areas, have seen it used for hull inspection on glass fibre.
@@bishopdredd5349I'm not sure but that sounds good.
I'm glad to see you've made some progress. If I were in your shoes, I would take the money and ask GLY to build me an Outremer. Good Luck.
No, just take the money and get a boat built in another country.
I think it would be excellent to see a repair series.
As much of a thorn in the side you think you are you are far more reserved and calm then I would be. I hope the spirit is kept up and things fall in line for you.
I'm not sure that I was quite as reserved and calm in the meeting room with Xavier and his communications guy :).
Your story/experience brings out the worst and best emotions in me.
When you were at the receivers office getting stonewalled in person after being stonewalled continuously for 7 months, my mind instantly went to, this is why people drive trucks into buildings!!!
Then to have the meeting with the new owners and they actually taking on board your problem and helping you is almost the miracle you needed.
I sincerely hope this ends well for you, it's a nightmare that no one deserves!
At least now, there is light at the end of the tunnel, I hope the next tears from your wife are tears of joy!
All the very best and thanks for the update 😃
Kind words. Thank you!
Thank you for your update. It’s good to see that there are still genuinely professional people out there.
Yes please repair series. Hugs to your wife.
Firstly, your tenacity shines through. Calm and thorough throughout. I would also commend the actions of Grand Large Yachting, they genuinely come across as people who want to do the best for the boating industry and not just focus on profit.
Great video with great people involved
A repair series, would help them!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go above and beyond make this man whole
I'm sure if your boat was repaired at the yard then the owner of GLY would ensure it was done properly, the fact that he reached out to you in the first place and has gone out of his way to get answers from the receivers shows his character.
It would be a good series to video the repairs and I'm sure it would show the quality of GLY's work going forward.
A perfect gentleman. I'm so sorry for your experience. I'd like to think your conduct, kindness and karma will protect you. Best of luck, John.
Thank you for your story. I owned a boatyard / marina in the USA for many years and performed all kinds of structural repairs to a variety of vessels. There are many factors within your story that need to be considered ! The biggest factor for you is you may have the ability to get a refund of the purchase price of the boat back in your hands ! Other factors ?
1. If the boat is repaired who will do it and how will the repairs be done ?
2. Will core samples be taken from the hull to show where the glass is resin starved ? How will those repairs be performed ? Will the repair weight be evenly distributed trough out the boat so the boat when finished floats on her lines evenly ?
3. Repair / install of rudders / keels ? Will they be engineered ?
4. When the repairs are done and you start using the vessel what happens if you have more failures ?
5. Last but not least when the time comes to sell this boat years down the road this vessel will have a history, due to the history will you be able to sell the vessel if so for how much ?
The fact that you have the possibility of a buy back for what you paid ? I highly recommend you take it and run ! Find yourself another boat with a builder with a better tract record. I would recommend a good strong mono hull, multi hulls have to many problems . I hope you my information here in this small file.
Todd Abrahamsson
Thanks Todd. Good questions for which I don't have many answers.
1. If the boat is repaired it needs to be at a yard who can do the repairs to a good reliable standard. Finding a good repair yard is like finding a good manufacturer - it's a potential minefield because there are some cowboys out there.
2. We can use ultrasound to identify the dry areas and any delamination, and the exact boundaries of each region. Then these areas need to be cut out and repairs tabbed in. I don't know, but I expect this to add weight. But only a few kilos, and distributed over a 5.8 tonne boat, I don't think this will make any difference to overall centre of gravity.
3. I can't build new keels to the original design, because that design is flawed. It requires a naval architect to design a safe replacement, but for that cost I'm probably not far short of the price of incorporating daggerboards. So probably we'll design a fix with daggerboard casings and boards. Many of the ORC42s were built like this - it is possible that the original designer might be willing to help. I have found a composites specialist in La Rochelle who built replacement rudders for a fleet of well know race boats here in France, after the originals broke due to poor manufacturing. They can build to race boat loads and the price is OK if I provide the original stocks. This needs to be done before we can put the boat into the water to motor/sail downwind to a repair yard. However, if I were able to agree repairs with ORC/Outremer, they may wish to make the replacement rudders. I would need to understand how they have changed the way that they build them so that I don't end up with the same problem later.
4. In theory the repair yard would have a warranty on their work. In practice Marsaudon forced me to go through the courts, so we're back to the question of how do you sift a good repair yard from the cowboys.
5. That's the big unknown. ORC boats are niche, even when in good condition. If the boat is repaired 'behind the scenes' I think no-one will ever trust it. The only option is to be transparent and show everything. If it is repaired well, perhaps someone might consider it to be equal to, or better than a boat from the same yard with an unknown history.
Thanks for your thoughts and advice. John
Definitely yes to the repair series Jonny. He definitely sounds like an integrous chap.
He reminds me of offo.
No to a repair series. The old boat is death trap and is not repairable.
As an old sailor i decided many years ago not to go new but look at 5 year old boats that have a proven record & the bear bugs have been found as i saw many examples as a broker & the lack of commitment from various makers . You've handle this well & it appears there is a result BUT French legal system isnt easy , Good luck sir .
Thank you!
Thank you for sharing your story. Look forward to hearing how this all pans out for you and your love for sailing.
Glad to see you making some progress. I had hope that your last video would gain the attention of the people who need make this right. Stay strong!!
All the best John, we hope the outcome is favourable to you. And thanks to GLY for mediating the gap.
I just wish R & C could do the same thing for Leopard 45 owners too
Do you have a an issues with your Leopard 45? 🙂
@@travelsketch I dont own one, I had issues with one I chartered last year, I got to find your videos and others online after.
Thanks for the support. We like to help people where we can. @@StudioBhobho
Take the money. Spend it on a builder you can trust. Thank you very much for sharing this. I absolutely love the open Internet for leveling the playing field. Best of luck and Fairwinds
Well said!
Great to see our views and your persistence has moved things forward. Of coarse many of us would love to see a professional repair series, but guys like refit and sail do show professional repairs, do what is right for you if that is repair I will watch with interest fair winds.
Wow,it always amazes me as to just how wide these Cats are. Beautiful boats.
Yes, I'd like to be there when the owner of the ORC57 tries to negotiate the narrow exit to the marina. I remember that being stressful in my (comparatively) small ORC42 :).
Do you know of youngbarnacles here on UA-cam? Shane Young and his wife owns a ~30 year old Catana 42 that they've been fixing up and modifying. He seems to be a pretty knowledgeable guy. Has for instance changed his steel chainplates to carbon fiber ones. According to him a cool thing about plastic boats is that they can be fixed if they brake... I'm however just a layman at this, so due diligence and all of that stuff...
You are truly a patient beyond reason person. Best of luck to you and your family with your future plans to really enjoy life.
Good luck John, thanks to Xavier and the Grand Large Yachting Team to help! Looking forward to see lots of repair videos and a great rebuilt yacht at the end!!! ath from Vienna, Austria
Just saw this on my feed and thought how awful, and yet how courageous for Grand Large to take up the challenge for you and repair your boat. I'm a old boat enthusiasts and I narrowly missed involving myself in a problem boat in my 40's. Though I no longer involve myself in that life style, I am still much interested in overhauls and problem solving. I look forward in watching how they rebuild your hull. I watched Collins rebuild and I watched Expedition Evans reattach their keel. They did it themselves with dock yard help and the inspectors said it was better than factory. I believe that you will be well satisfied in the long run.
I'm very glad to learn that you have the possibility to make a recovery. It is striking how many specialist boatyards and their guarantees have a short life. My own boat was built by four yards with a production run of 19. For sure, it would be interesting to see a log of the repairs, but I believe it would be wiser to bring this story to a close and to start afresh.
Very happy to hear G/L is providing a reasonable solution. To have G/L stand behind a boat they didn't build and have no responsibility for is a really bid deal. I would love to watch a re-build channel bringing your boat back to shape. I hope it works out for you.
Hi, great/horrific story! If i were you i would take the money and get Outremer to build you a new boat. Even if
Grand Large repair your old boat i think there would always be the possibility of further problems the surveyor hasn't found compromising the boat.
I agree.
Yes, that's a worry because he didn't do a full survey of the boat. He simply investigated that individual problems that were reported to him.
Do this. You could offer UA-cam-document the building of your new boat by the new company owners. That would be a series of free ads on UA-cam that demonstrates the new company's quality. And, bonus, how they have such high integrity that they are helping you.
For all this, they could give you a big discount on the new build. This is a huge marketing opportunity for them.
@@geezer355 I assumed that was the case. And not a negative person… but who knows what else could be wrong.
Congratulations to this video -again! I like your calm and objective style especially seeing what kind of horror your have been going through.
For me the reaction of GLY was expected. This is the way how real professionals are dealing with a case like yours. I believe the best thing for them would be to give your nightmare a „happy end“ Please go for the chance and make yourself happy with your boat but in the shape and status you expected to get when you bought the boat. And the story on UA-cam would be awesome!!!
Thanks :).
Wow it is great to see that you have got some sort of reasonable solution within your grasp or although certainly not worth the eight years of your life that it has taken.
Also nice to see that there is someone honorable at Grand Large.
Certainly I will be interested to see this saga all the way to its conclusion whether you take the money or go with a rebuild.
Take the money and run as fast as you can! One guy is playing the "nice guy" only to lure you in. Don't be a suckered. Xo
So happy to see some progress.
Well done... Take the money and the lessons learned and start afresh with Xavier.... Technology and process has moved on - you have built a great channel and the adventure of a new boat build and the kudos Xavier and his team will gain by building something special will really strengthen their brand - well done - proud of you 😀
best of luck for you and your wife, considering all you went through, the professionalism and coolness displayed in the video are admiral. all the best!
Great follow up. Step one is take the full payment. Step 2 is have a conversation with the wife. She may be very much over this particular boat and maybe all boats....
Options are find another project, buy the old boat at the eventual auction for very low cost and rebuild to survey standards (and build a YT channel which will be well received), walk away from everything that floats, or build a camper van and travel the world that way...
It's good that you may now have a quality boat builder to work with, it adds a great deal of potential value.
Keep up the videos, its a very good narrative 👏
Thanks. You've summed up my situation. The wife associates 5 years of legal woes, no money and stress with this boat, so she doesn't want to see it again. I associate the pain with the people, rather than the boat. Certainly, if we have the opportunity to keep the boat, I need to break that association between boat and bad memories. I was thinking of a wildly different wrap/paint scheme, and possibly a boat name change? However, I don't want to hide the history from others, so that would need to be done publicly.
@@geezer355 You're on the right track, making decisions with a rebuilt bank account is always the best option IMO.
And yes, if Mrs Lawson is committed too buy the old hull back at the cheapest price at auction and rename, restyle, rebuild at your planned and concisely budgeted price, then go for it. See what Colin did, I'd buy his Lagoon before any other as I see it has the greatest documented history. And he did everything pretty much right.
And hopefully you may have some cash left over to help compensate the legal and personal costs you have experienced.
BTW, I've had two "learning" experiences with liquidators of businesses, and their primary function is to serve themselves first with exorbitant fees. The longer they can string the issues out the more they get paid. They don't care about anyone but themselves and because you are the secured creditor they hate you more. One would hope there was a professional standards organization (which they belong) that you may make a detailed complaint to. They are the lowest of the low end of "insolvency specialists" accounting profession. Bottom feeders all of them.
@@gdc6666 Really interesting comments. I hope I never have to deal with one again 🤞.
@@geezer355 best of luck mate 👍
Professional presentation
It looks like there may be light at the end of the tunnel and it seems help is on the way. Nice of GLY to step up and hopefully clean up this mess.
It surely is a black eye for the ICNN the former owner of the Marsaudon yard. The fact that some people feel 'uncomfortable' about your first video, shows that you are spot on in calling them out. People like that get away with too many shenanigans as is already. Not having the brass ones to admit any responsibility shows their true character.
Good luck man. A very interesting turn of events. God Bless.
This is paramount, thank you GLY for stepping up. 👏👏👏👏👏
Take the money and get a proper boat. We wish you good luck. Stay safe.
Yes, to the repair series and hopefully the receiver will come through
Well done John. As I say keep shaking the tree and the apples will fall. They don't need the bad publicity moving forward with the new ownership. Just make sure it's your decision and not theirs to what you decide
John, your approach to this painful experience has been inspirational. I can only imagine the stress that this experience must have put you and your family under. The approach that Outremer have taken is incredibly positive, and without being cynical will no doubt be good for the brand. I wish you good luck in achieving a satisfactory conclusion, and will follow your channel with interest. Trust your instincts, they have served you well.
Thanks!
It's a sad story and you explained the situation perfectly. MC went bankrupt, the assets were sold and the liabilities were not. The receiver has the liability and the proceeds from the sale of assets. Like a vulture, they think they can swoop in, strip the dead company of assets which they then sell, and avoid the liabilities. That's who you need to go after. The new owners of the assets only really want to disassociate themselves with the previous business. That's how I see it.
Very reasonable video. Good to hear that Xavier Desmarest and Grand Large Yachting was able and willing to help. I hope it all works out.
The thing about sailors is we count on each other. When I hear of someone who's been demasted and other boats and crews travel hundreds of nautical miles to aid them, bring diesel, food, I always send 50 to 100€ to the Go fund Me so they can make repairs.
When I saw the tow boat bringing someone in to the harbor where I keep my boat, it's clear to me that today it's that boat, someday it will be me. Fair winds.
Thanks, and exactly right!
Well that is very heartening to hear of the way that GLY, lead by Xavier, have responded.
They set the example of how to treat clients. Properly.
It sounds like they do have integrity and I would think, would do a thorough and proper job of the repairs, if you get that chance.
I'd like to see the repair videos. How they tackle it. It would be very interesting.
Good luck with the receiver!
Thanks. I'll keep my fingers crossed!
I watched you’re first video and now just watched this episode and now have subscribed. I hope for you that these meeting and now this progress may shed some lights and a resolution.
Most definitely a repair on your boat with and in a professional workshop would be awesome and I think a benefit for them as well.
Thank you and good luck. I wait in anticipation for episode 3
Let's hope...
You started today on this very interesting.Looking forward to the repair.Good luck
I subscribed last week and I am hooked. I'll watch every episode of the rebuild if it happens.
Kudos for your persistence, honesty and trust in the new management. This is an above average UA-cam story!
Thanks 😊.
Take the money and RUN!
Yeah, if he would take 90% in real money and 10% in that crappy boat, and have YT series on rebuild, then maybe.
Indeed new owner is indeed brave and will bring a solution to the table. It's going to be a balancing act. I hope Grand Large Yachting will use his power to learn the receiver a professional lesson.
Delighted to see progress, and hats off to you for the generosity of your comments towards GLY. Whilst I think the subsequent story of the yacht repair would make really interesting viewing, IMO I think you should take the offer of refunding the purchase price, put it towards another yacht, and enjoy quality time sailing with your wife. It sounds like you (both) need a break, and it seems like you’ve been handed one 😁. All the best for the future, I hope the next instalment is you jumping for joy holding a cheque 😂
Thanks for this informational video.
It's always good to know the truths about the corporate shenanigans and responsibilities for the products they are selling. I hope they show a bit of integrity in your case.
Great to see your progress. Yes to videos on rebuild. More strength to your arm. Great for Grands brand
Can only imagine the time, stress and constant effect on your lives. Well done you for your grit to move ahead in the way you have. Good luck with your process. As an Outremer owner i can say that the potential for good build quality exists within their organisation, if you can tap into that and get your boat back you will be doing very well. Yes, would love to see a series on that and would encourage GLS to support and facilitate that.
Place your trust in Xavier, by your description a man of honour. Do not pay a lot of money for your boat back. Currently the boat is worthless to the receiver. No one but you is going to trust the boat and it is only the equipment which is worth anything without a repair. Incidentally I thought the guys you employed to survey the boat were superb. Good luck, and "Having done all to stand, therefore stand".
Thank you. Sound advice.
Outremer has a long and storied reputation to protect. ORC has a new-comer reputation to build (James seems to like his ORC!). I would honor their openness with the trust to repair your boat.
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing your story, hope you get your money back soon, I'd take all of it and buy a well built boat!
Good luck and thanks for sharing! If you keep your boat perhaps you could use heavy tarps material on the outside of the hull and the pressure of the water would seal the holes well enough to get down the river to the repair facility?
Yes, if it's just down the river, I hope that a temporary repair like this would suffice.
Hello John,
I think you could try to make a refit in GLY new facilities in Lorient, a good way to make light on their industrial and quality processes !
A serie in that way would be very interesting for both parts.
John what a tragic story. I would take the money, buy a boat and go sailing rather than spend the next year in a factory repairing what will undoubtedly always be a troubled boat.
Take the money and do not look back, I have enough life behind me in business to be in a good place to make this call, but I wish you well whatever decision you make.
Love your guts & determination - something recognised by the new owners, I suspect. My gut feel is to get out sailing again, in your own boat & enjoy a new start albeit with much more legal experience than anyone really needs in boat ownership. As hard as it is to walk away for the subject boat - Nowa your time to enjoy the fruits of your hard work & get on with what you'd like to do.
All the best, fair winds ...
Thanks :)
Always interested in a repair video series, especially by an industry leader. However, your best play is to take the money and work with Zavier to build a new boat.
Yes I would be interested in the rebuild series I do think grande large do have the expertise and it would be in my view very beneficial to them in a PR perspective
Only if they do a good job 🤔. It's a risk for them, because if the fixes are bodged, everyone will see. I respect their certainty that they only do good work.
Don’t give up, John. Thank you for sharing your progress and for your honesty regarding Xavier from GLY being transparent and forth coming. We are following your story with great interest as the outcome will influence our decision to purchase an Outremer 52 or 55 catamaran in the next year or two. We were very impressed so far with their après-vente interventions across the globe. Of course, Outremer might have learned a great lesson from Lagoon’s bulkhead fiasco which has rendered their catamarans very unpopular in the US market. A lot is at stake for LGY. Keep on keeping on!
Thank you!
John you are an amazing guy and I am pleased things have moved forward from the last video and there are some positives in this video. I am conflicted though, as much as I would like to sit in my armchair watching a video series on the repair process, I am in no position to judge if that is the most sensible option for you to take. But from my armchair, where I am not emotionally invested - I would negotiate for the very best cash settlement possible and move on - but it is easy for me to say.
I truly hope you get what you want, need and deserve out of this.😀⛵️
Thanks!
Well done John! Your level headedness is incredible given the trials you have been put through. The whole affair is a stunning indictment of the boat building industry in Brittany, and GLY are right to be concerned that this may also place them in a bad light, but facts are facts. They are smart to be fighting in your corner, and their influence may be the tipping point in producing (finally) a reasonable resolution, albeit 6 YEARS overdue (!). Great film and we are all following along with our very best wishes dear sir.
Thanks. That's very kind.
My 2 cents. You need an out from this nightmare, definitely take the money, and perhaps work with Xavier to get you a brand new yacht of a different model. I admire your patience in the face of such frustrating circumstance. Stories like this remind me what a sad state of affairs we have in the world, it is only on the rarest of occasions that someone like you would even have the possibility of getting justice against 'the big guy' (MC). And funnily enough your possibility now only exists because an even 'bigger guy' (GLY) saw this case as damaging to their public image and bottom line; although, I don't doubt Xavier himself is indeed a genuinely nice guy. Anyway, YOU are the 'big guy' as far as anyone in this comment section is concerned, a hero. It is not easy to hold your own in circumstances like this, both emotionally and financially. I wish you all the best, stay strong! 👍
Thank you!
I think Grand large yachting sound like a very fair company to deal with.
But given all the problems with the yacht and unknowable hidden problems I would take the money.
Good luck.
Good luck mate
The yard are not an option if the yard can't Garant the quality of their boats and take full responsibility.
Thanks 4 letting us now. I will follow whatever happens /Mikael
What a dreadfully traumatic time you have had. We're currently looking at buying a cat, potentially from Grand Large group so we're watching with interest. They seem to have shown integrity thus far and one hopes they will repair your boat to a high standard at the least cost to you even though they weren't the builder - it would say a lot about them to the boating world. We understand the extent of the emotional damage this will have done and we hope for the best. Keep strong and carry on the good fight!
Thank you. That's very kind.
Well done to you John for your calm perseverance. Not sure I’d have your self control. Keep the pressure on. Don’t give up. As per an earlier commenter I’d take the money and negotiate with Xavier to buy an Outremer. He seems like an honourable guy. Best of luck and keep us updated throughout the rest of your journey.
Thanks!
It seems that things are turning around for you and this is reassuring for the French yachting industry.
Thank you for the video John. I hope you can find a solution that satasfies all parties. Best of luck.
good luck with your quest
Great video and well done by you and GLY (Outremer etc) on having such a constructive conversation and follow up help from GLY. I have had dealings with Outremer and they have always been very helpful. I would take the boat back, as you have experienced fantastic performance and the new build cost is much higher now. I have had heard an American performance catamaran (SA built) company is struggling on quality. The owners I know are keeping quiet at the moment to protect resale. Good luck going forward.
Thank you.
"the yard" is distinct from the people and the processes. Pleasantly surprised to hear your comments about today's Grand Large leadership team and the assistance they are providing. Bravo to Xavier Desmarest for constructively engaging with you
Hello John,
it is a sad story. I admire the realism and tenacity with which you are claiming compensation.
I wouldn't take the Cat back. The boatyard may pay you off and sell the boat to a craftsman.
From my experience of building 40 ocean-going catamarans and large rotor blades for wind turbines, defects cannot be repaired satisfactorily after a vacuum infusion failed.
I also think the shape of the keels is unsuitable. They have a small contact surface on the hulls and their leverage is high.
The quality of a composite laminate comes from the processing of the material.
The first 40' sandwich catamaran, which I built in 1987 according to plans from Derek Kelsall, still sails long distances between the polar circles today. Another 44' cat based on a design by John Shuttleworth, which I built using the vacuum process, is, as the customer writes, still as fresh as on the first day after 50,000 nm under sails. Look around for a new boat, even though it may not be from a big company. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice.
11:52 Gotta love the french and their sailing ability.
The sailing ability is mainly due to Bretons.
the litte yacht being parked was joy to watch
First you must figure out if REALLY all dry spots can be found, not just the easy relatively superficial ones. (Acoustic hammer, scans). Else the repair is simply not an option. Imagine a structural beam ripping apart in a storm after some years of silently cracking, just vecause it had a big air bubble in the laminate. Excellent behavior of the GLY leader
Great point!
Love this! I'm cheering for you!
Take the money Johnny, it’s been stressful enough, start afresh.
Thanks buddy. What to start afresh with, would be my question? I've spent too much time delivering slow boats during the last 5 years, and most boats with this sort of performance are either way out of my budget or they are race boats, which won't work for Julie or the dog. But it would be nice to get off UA-cam and just live my life...
Fingers crossed that it works out better.
I really hope that you come out from this in a satisfying way for you. You really need to have them on your side here. Get a collaboration with the repair team so it turn out to a "win-win project".
Repairing company gain a good quality image and you get a boat. That could really be fun to watch.
Good luck!
Thank you for the videos.
The repair series would be interesting, but if I were in your shoes, I would take the money. Your old boat may have some other undiscovered issues as well.
I think GLY is really showing good faith and are trying to help you to get the issue resolved.
Good luck! I hope everything turns out well in the end.
Well done, you’ve come across very reasonable, articulate and patient. Sounds like GLY have gone a long way to recovering your monies, pity they can’t recover your time.
Exactly :)
Thanks for this & congratulations on finally with the Brilliant assistance of Grand Large in obtaining access to the elusive receivers, Of course I think your completely nuts if you have the chance of obtain a full refund but choose to instead repair your boat but most of us involved with boats are a bit mad, If you decide to go down the repair route with Grand Large / Outremer completing the work i shall not miss a single episode, good luck whichever you route you choose
Many thanks!
Take 50% payout and fix your boat, outremer has ridgid qaulity control, sure they will make it better than it needs to be, goodluck john!, a repair series would be cool, also for them to show their capabilities, maybe you both come out on top, you with the boat you clearly love and them with gr8 PR
I think, that ORC boats are really good, maybe best, hope you will get positive results and all troubles will be far away 👍
I feel for you. Give yourself X days to resolve the receivership issue. If you can’t get it done quickly, take the money. You’ve already spent 5 years waiting to be compensated.
And don’t ever charter out your boat. I would NEVER let anyone pay to use my boat. They don’t know her and they don’t care. There’s a reason all those production cats have a ~3 year charter lifespan.
Good luck! It seems you’ve got the best outcome and good chioces
John, great work with the first video and the positive results. Of course, as an engineer, I would be interested in a repair series, but clearly there is a balance of risk, vs potential reward, that you and Julie need to decide on.
On the current rate of progress there should be time for us to discuss it this summer 😂.
At least GLY is applying some ethics (and common sense) to this situation-- it was very concerning before this video... Certainly, you'd be very careful going anywhere near a second hand T42... Well done and huge kudos to you.. and yes, very interested to watch how the boat is repaired. Phil