Campervan 230V Electrics Install (with Victron Phoenix Inverter!) | Transit Van Conversion E46
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2024
- In this video we're installing our Victron Phoenix 1200VA Inverter and 230V sockets in our campervan!
We have three 230V sockets in the van that we want to hardwire into an inverter, and we also want a consumer unit with an RCD and MCB to give us some safety.
We compared the Victron 1000W inverter with a Renogy inverter and decided to go with the Victron as it was better suited for the earthing required for an RCD to function.
There are lots of choices when it comes to campervan inverters, consumer units, RCDs and MCBs so there was a lot to consider. The actual wiring of the inverter and all the sockets was fairly straightforward after that. We also wired in the remaining 12V sockets we have in the van that we plug USB chargers into.
Now we can power anything we need when we're on the road!
Disclaimer:
** 230V electricity can be dangerous if not installed properly. Although we have taken every effort to install everything correctly according to the British Standard (BS7671), we are not qualified electricians and if in any doubt you should always seek the advice of someone who is a qualified electrician in your country. **
Many thanks to Simon a.k.a The Caravan Repair Man who very kindly looked over our finished electric setup in the van at short notice. We really appreciate it!
You can find his services here: www.thecaravanrepairman.co.uk/ (highly recommended) 👍
Thanks for watching! Any comments or questions? Let us know below!
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Products used in this video (includes affiliate links *):
↠ Victron Phoenix 12/1200 Inverter - ebay.us/FkenM5 (eBay)
↠ Victron Lynx Distributor - geni.us/BRX0 (Amazon)
↠ Victron MPPT 100/50 - geni.us/0JE2o (Amazon)
↠ Victron Orion 12/12-30 - geni.us/6u2CH (Amazon)
↠ 12V USB Chargers - geni.us/Fz8pb (Amazon)
↠ Socket Tester - geni.us/m5W0F (Amazon)
↠ Chint RCD/MCB/Consumer Unit - www.expertelectrical.co.uk/
↠ Victron BMV 712 Battery Monitor and 500A Shunt - geni.us/4PxBFN (Amazon)
↠ Renogy 175w Solar Panels - geni.us/YfXF (Amazon)
↠ Blue Sea 6006 Battery Switch - geni.us/KNpAfSd (Amazon)
↠ Blue Sea Fuse Hub - ebay.us/82Ohou
↠ Wire Strippers - geni.us/9v1Bs (Amazon)
↠ Ferrule Crimp Tool Kit - geni.us/Z6wYA (Amazon)
↠ Wire Ferrules - ebay.us/2SRaoE
↠ Heat Shrink Crimp Tool - geni.us/cL4uFP (Amazon)
↠ Adhesive Lined Heat Shrink - ebay.us/Ap6huk
↠ Heat Shrink Crimp Terminals - ebay.us/dQYD0Q
↠ Heavy Duty Crimp Tool - www.12voltplanet.co.uk/heavy-...
↠ Wire/Cable - mostly from ebay.us/WtL24D and www.12voltplanet.co.uk/cable....
↠ Nylon P Clips - ebay.us/beXZQr
* Disclaimer: Some of the links above may be affiliate links. If you choose to click on them we may earn a small percentage of the sale at no extra cost to you.
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All our videos are for entertainment and show our process of converting our campervan. They're not intended to be tutorials and we may make mistakes along the way, so always do your own research and if in doubt about anything then make sure to get advice from a suitable professional
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#vanconversion #campervanconversion #vanlifeuk
All the different bits of kit and products we used in the video should be linked in the description, and you can also find our diagrams there as well 👍
*N.B.* Inverter earthing is a complex subject with many variables so we would always advise getting advice from an electrician if you want to do something similar. Our setup works great for our use case in the van, but is not necessarily applicable to all scenarios. Using higher power devices, wanting a shore power hookup, using a different inverter, what country you are in etc are all situations which might mean the earthing setup required for you is different to us, so always do your own research. Some inverter manufacturers are also a lot better than others at providing adequate documentation and support, Victron is particularly good in our experience.
Useful resources:
Victron Wiring Unlimited Book (free): www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/The_Wiring_Unlimited_book/43562-Wiring_Unlimited-pdf-en.pdf
Grounding Made Simpler (especially part 4 - mobile systems): diysolarforum.com/resources/grounding-made-simpler-part-4-mobile-systems.159/
John Ward on YT (has some great videos going into a lot more detail on earthing): ua-cam.com/video/mzCGE5wnWos/v-deo.html
Roland W on YT: ua-cam.com/video/eQ1Itspy9aM/v-deo.html
DEAR TIM AND ABI 👩❤️👨 KEEP IT UP ...👍 ALWAYS IN SUPPORT WITH YOU...🙂
@@sigma6725 thank you very much 😊
Your attention to detail and meticulous work habits are truly amazing. I so admire your willingness to just jump in and get to it. All along the way you've shown a great way to tackle every issue you're faced with. I'm looking forward to seeing how the next two big projects are accomplished. Keep up the good work! Three cheers from the US.
Thank you very much! It's been a huge project with lots to learn that's for sure 😃 Hopefully it won't be too long till we have the next video ready 🙂
Superbly explained. I can't imagine how much research you must have had to wade through to get such a thorough understanding.
I would imagine there will be lots of followers who will be very glad of this, and the time you have taken to explain it all so clearly in this video must have taken ages.
Video quality is superb as usual. Great job
Thank you very much, it was a bit of a minefield to research but it's great to have all the sockets working! 😊
Great in depth explanation - must admit I always questioned why you would need a consumer unit after the inverter for such a small number of potential circuits, but you totally clarified that. You did the reading of regulations so we didn't have to!!
Cheers, yeah there's a lot of information to get your head around with the AC side of things. This was one of the simplest projects from a practical point of view to actually connect it all up, but easily had the most research to get to that point!
Love your videos! I’m not even putting AC in my van but still watched this because it’s enjoyable learning from you and there’s always valuable tidbits. You guys have a truly comprehensive understanding of the subjects and do a great job explaining things and watching you explain stuff really makes it feel like less of an insurmountable task. Thanks for inspiring me to go spend another day working on my own rig.
Thank you very much! We spend a long time researching each project so it's nice to be able to get some of that into a video to maybe help some others. You've very welcome and hope the rest of your build goes well! 😊
Hello, first of all how you two have made it this far without divorce is amazing. Secondly I am reconsidering the whole thing based primarily on the fact that I have not even got enough money for the tools. My primary aim was to buy a van I could escape in for a while but the T5 I bought was built by an imbecile who used heavy foam and tar like glue which all came loose in the first hot afternoon. So now I have had a shell covered in noise deadening from dodomat and no insulation and an either freezing or boiling tin can. I think on reflection I need a van I can stand up in and not live quite so luxuriously as you but have a bed and insulation and perhaps one solar panel to charge my tablet.
Amazing stuff and the best details and descriptions I've seen. Thank you x
Haha cheers, you do end up spending a lot of time together in a van 😅 Glad you're enjoying the videos, and yeah being able to both comfortably stand up inside was our main requirement, as we figured that would be a deal breaker for how much we enjoyed it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do with yours 😊👍
I discovered your channel today and watched a few uploads. At first, I thought, 'Oh, he seems clever,' then I assumed, 'Oh, she probably will be one of those girlfriends who sits, smiles, and watches him do it all, pretending she understands.'
And I must say, OMG, you are both such a lovely couple. Tim is so talented and clever; Abi just gets her hands on everything, fully helping and not scared of the drill or electrics. So impressive, both of you. I subscribed after watching the first video.
Everything was so well explained and in an easy to understand language-ok, maybe except for the types of waves; I didn't get that, lol but that's me not you.
You both have such a way of explaining things, and the teamwork in this partnership seems to be so natural and flawless.
You've got a new subscriber here! 😊
Thank you very much! We have a rule that we both have to work on every project in the van and each of us has do get stuck into whatever we're doing as well, even if it's something one of us isn't as good at! We like it that way and means we both have a complete understanding of everything we've done too 🙂 Hope you carry on enjoying the videos 😃
@@SelfBuiltStories Also, I have a quick question. I watched your water heater installation with the diesel Chinese heater. Do you know if underfloor heating can also be attached? I've watched a few videos where there is a pipe running in the floor with hot water, heating the floor. I am just trying to understand whether all three can be attached to one unit. By watching your video, we know you can heat water and air.
@@freespirit5944 Yes that is possible actually, they brought out an additional underfloor heating kit for it: www.bobilvans.co.uk/product-page/underfloor-heating-kit . It's not something we've got any experience with but generally the way it works is you use the heater to heat up gylcol which then gets pumped around pipework in the floor. I've also seen 12V heat pads put under vinyl to give some underfloor heating that way too. HTH 👍🙂
Wow, great progress guys. Thank you for your considerable research and clear explanations re earthing in the van. Like you I bought a Renogy invertor but now I shall look into the Victron offerings. Best of luck!
Cheers! No problem, hope it was useful and good luck with yours 🙂
Explain it well ,and now know how it works 👍
Great 🙂👍
We thought of Victron however couldn't say No for Enerdrive😻 Loved how you are converting this van
Cheers :) There's so many different manufacturers out there these days. We're invested in the the Victron family now as we like having everything together in the app 😛
please, please, please, do the recirculating shower next. lol
As always, another excellent video. It is interesting to see how you deal with the different building codes in the UK. The US is just barely starting to apply building codes to RVs. When I installed my solar setup, I tried to follow as many standards as I could. One of the big ones was a Solar cutoff that cots off both wires coming from the solar panels. I never knew you could get AC Breakers that do the same thing.
Cheers! And sorry will have to disappoint you on that as the next one will be the gas 😀 The regulations are still fairly loose around campervans in the UK in most cases too. The BS7671 electrical standard is primarily focussed on residential properties but a lot of the principle still applies, and there are some specific amendments that apply more to leisure vehicles also. We did a similar thing to you and tried to follow as many of the standards as we could and have it checked over as well to make sure we weren't missing anything, as there is a lot to digest for sure!
Love your channel. You guys work well together.
Cheers, glad you enjoy it! 🙂
Excellent video
Thank you 😊
solid video, love the depth of information given.
Cheers! 👍
Good to see you again good job😊
Cheers! 😊
Great vlog, very instructional and helpful. Many thanks for this, take care.
No problem, glad it was helpful and thanks for watching 😊
Great video
Thank you 🙏🙂
Excellent series of videos! Very clear and highly informative, congratulations! I assume you've got a few more in store to complete the conversion. Particularly curious about the shower recirculating system and to hear what you would do differently after living in the van for a length of time (ideally, through all 4 seasons!)
Thank you! And yep there's still a few more build videos we have to release still, the finished recirculating shower being one of them 😎 We might make a video on how things have been working out at some point too, once we get through the backlog we have! 🙂
Great timing and so well explained. I've done months worth of reading to wrap my head around the electrics. Especially the GFI issue in an isolated van requires special attention. 🤔
I will be installing my 12V / 230V stuff next week, when all the cables and connectors have arrived. After calculating all the wire lengths, diameter and connection points, I have aquired literally boxes and boxes full of differently sized wiring, connectors, fuses & fuse types (MIDI, MEGA, ANC, Blade). M5, M6, M8, M10, 4, 6, 8, 10, 16mm and all combinations thereof. And - as usual - I don't have enough of some particular kind. Arghhhhh! Have you had the same marvelous experience? 🥴
We are installing a 16A load sensing switch, that will route 230V either from the landline (priority switched) or the 3KW inverter (hooked up to 3 x 100Ah). So 2 breaker boxes on the 230V side.
I actually have the same plug-in tester (just for German sockets) and it works like a charm. 😊👍
There's also no over-emphasizing the need for ferrules to keep from damaging the fine wires in stranded cables! I use them on ALL screw connects - 12V or 230V.
Happy travelling through Norway! Stay safe! 🚐☁🍀
Cheers! Yeah it's very easy to get lost down the rabbit hole researching this one! Lots of quirks and idiosyncrasies and then it differs depending on what equipment you have, shore power or not, country you're in, whether the sun is shining... can be a bit of a minefield of information 🥸
We went through the same thing, towards the end of the build I seemed to keep ordering more and more wire despite being sure each time that we had done everything we wanted. And with that came constantly buying more and more crimp connectors to go with it as well... and the different crimp tools of which we have quite a collection now. Took a while to decide which ones made the cut to keep in the van with us, you never know when you'll need to do some on the road electrical wiring! 😛
Yeah the tester is a really handy bit of kit and nice to have some extra peace of mind that all is well. After I bought it I couldn't resist going around and testing sockets in the house too haha. And yeah love the ferrules, they make it a lot neater and easier and hardly take long at all to do once you have the right tools. Probably makes the wiring quicker if anything.
Cheers and enjoy your upcoming trips! 🚐
i love you guys ❤
Haha, cheers 🙂
Watching all your videos from the beginning as doing our van also.
Well done on all your hard work, stunning van and very inspirational and helpful tips for us.
Can I ask who you insure your van with as we are finding it hard to find a camper in conversion insurance as the van is my main daily driving vehicle.
Worried that my van is just a van insurance not a campervan yet as not fully done.
Thank you
Lee & Tania
South Wales
Cheers, and glad you're enjoying the videos 🙂 We've used a few different brokers in the time we've had the van, and yeah it can be tricky as each conversion is quite different so you need a bespoke quote depending on all your specific circumstances. A few we would recommend trying would be Adrian Flux, Brentacre, AIB and A-Plan who we were able to get quotes for a camper in conversion. HTH! 👍
Really thorough and inspiring videos, thank you! Do you plan to install AC/air con unit? If so which kind?
No problem, cheers! And no plans to install AC, we were more concerned with having good heating 😃
Great stuff, I would advise that you wire and fix the 'load' side of the circuits first and work your way back to 'source'/inverter. I know it is relatively safe to do the way you did while the power is off. Doing it in the way I suggest ensures that the circuit can not be energised.
Cheers! Yeah we connected up the wires to actually power the inverter last so there was zero chance of anything on the AC side being live until we had finished doing all the sockets 🙂
@@SelfBuiltStories Yes nothing wrong with what you did, just worthy to note for people following along.
@@DodgyFPV Yep good advice, you can never be too careful 🙂👍
Excellent video!! I'm precisely looking at this right now! I'm researching a solar shed using the same inverter, and I thought I could connect multiple devices to that plug. Now, I will get an RCD and an earth rod connected to the consumer unit. I don't think i need to do the alteration on the inside inverter if the earth is connected in the consumer unit? Thank you!
Thank you! Inverter earthing and safety is a particularly complex subject as there are so many different variables, but in general these smaller powered inverters with a single socket should only really be used with a single appliance as they're sold. Larger inverters in contrast will usually _not_ have an AC outlet on them at all, as they are designed to be hardwired direct into a consumer unit and so feature dedicated AC out terminals instead. The Victron Phoenix is sort of a hybrid in that it can be used as a standalone floating unit, but also has provisions to adapt it to work in a hardwired setup by swapping the jumper inside (and that process is described in the appendix in the manual too: www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Inverter-VE.Direct-250VA-1200VA-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-IT.pdf ).
If you have one of the smaller inverters it will be likely be designed as 'floating', specifically meaning it's using the IT (Iisolé-terre) earthing system which is what we showed in the video as the examples in the Victron Wiring Unlimited book. In that earthing system using a single class one device is safe, as a first fault is not enough to cause a shock scenario. But the interesting quirk is that if you want to use multiple devices with an inverter like that and so add the earth wire, it actually becomes more dangerous until you add the RCD which then provides the required safety for everything. So it's crucial that the RCD is setup correctly and working, and both the RCD test button trips, but also a socket tester or equivalent that can carry out an RCD test trips it as well. In order for the RCD to be able to operate though a neutral-earth bond is required as shown in the video, or it's not able to detect an imbalance. You also need to only ever have a single N-E bond at one time, which is why if you also have a shore power hookup it gets a bit more complicated as the grid connection will usually already have the N-E bond upstream somewhere. For that reason inverter-chargers will only turn on the additional bond in the inverter if they're on inverting mode, and switch it off when back on grid to avoid having two active.
Going back to your question, I wouldn't want to comment too specifically because of how many variables there are, so would always advise having an electrician check it over as well. But assuming that the shed is completely isolated from the grid and is standalone with no other AC power then it would be roughly similar to the setup we have in the van. In which case just earthing the consumer unit with a rod to the earth bar would not be enough for an RCD to function as there still wouldn't be an N-E bond that is required for it to operate. That would be the equivalent of us running the earth wire from the consumer unit to the van chassis, so would still need the change in the phoenix to actually make that bond. HTH 👍
Well, I watched it again just to see if you included the FIRST time you forgot to pass the wires through the hole first before attaching them to the socket 😂😂
Haha, it was funny and frustrating in equal measure 😅
Do you have a link for that hairdryer? 😂 it is the best thing I’ve ever seen ha
Unfortunately not I'm afraid! It was bought a long while ago from Muji, don't think they sell it anymore, but it's pretty handy! 😀
👏👏👏 what a fantastic video. So informative perfectly paced. 🫡
Cheers! 🙂
Very nice information. 8/10 as not 100% accurate but a very good effort. You need to remember with your arrangement you can never add shore power as you would have two NE bonds which breaks major rule no1. You would need to alter your bond arrangements. Very nice attention to detail on the install too.
Yep don't worry we're aware of the necessity to not have a double N-E bond in the system, but in our case we decided early on that we didn't have a need for a shore power hookup so it's not a problem for us. If we ever changed our minds on that we'd probably swap the phoenix for a multiplus anyway so we wouldn't be hard wiring it then. Where did you see the inaccuracy in the video out of interest though, as not sure we said otherwise? We did originally have a longer section on exactly this actually (avoiding a double bond), but given the video was already quite long it was one of the bits that didn't make the final edit! But we did mention that with an inverter-charger there would be a changeover relay to make or break the bond depending on whether on shore power or not, and so only providing it if it's not already coming from the grid. Cheers, and thanks for the comment! 👍🏼
Could you not simply run a 3 position switch to change from shore to inverter power which would solve the issue of having 2 NE bonds?
Watched a 2nd time and perhaps I was a bit harsh. Let's go 9/10! The explanation and terminology around 8:50 to 12:00 mins could be better. You obviously knew what you meant and it was correct but could be delivered better for some to understand. Also glands not grommets on the CU would be more compliant. Great job though!
@nigelburton7408 Haha, cheers. It's tricky when editing and especially so with this video as there are so many scenarios and variables, and everyone is watching it with a different level of understanding, with different kit and from different countries. A lot of the stuff we're talking about is quite dry and terse as well so getting the balance right to keep the video flowing but still showing the detail is what we try to do. We don't intend our videos to be full tutorials as every project we do in the van is just specific to how we wanted to build ours. But if they help give ideas and a starting point for some more research that's awesome. I'll take 9/10 though! 😄
Interesting point on the grommets as I couldn't find a specific regulation that mandates the use of glands in our situation. I know BS 7671:2011 Amendment 3 (17th edition) mandated the use of metal (non-combustible) consumer units over the previously allowed plastic ones, and guidance notes say "Cables must be protected from abrasion" but I couldn't find any mention of specific gland requirements. There's also examples given of using rubber grommets, e.g. electrical.theiet.org/courses-resources-and-career/free-resources/consumer-guidance/consumer-units/ . There isn't much (at all) specific regulations for mobile installations like the kind you get in a campervan/motorhome either so there's a lot of grey areas, so we used the domestic regulations as the baseline. If you know of a specific regulation around the use of grommets though I'd be interested to hear it, always good to learn more!
Thanks for the comments!
@@killbotty If you had shore power with an inverter-chargers then there should be something like a relay built in already to make or break the bond automatically as required depending on whether it's using shore power or not. And for our setup with a simple standalone inverter there's no risk of a double bond as shore power isn't an option. It gets more complicated if you have an inverter that also has AC passthrough (like the renogy), or if you had a setup similar to ours but decided to add a separate AC charger into the system somewhere. Then you would need to be be very careful not to introduce a second bond. There's various ways you can do it, I've also seen some people have completely separate sockets depending on whether they're on grid or inverter power as well
New video, nice!
😁👍🏼
@@SelfBuiltStories loved the talk on the earthing thanks guys. I'm going to invest in one of those socket testers, as we have nearly a dozen 240V devices in the truck!
@@youtubehandol no worries! Yeah they're cool bits of kit and nice for some extra peace of mind 🙂
Hi Great to see you back with another video , do you have a link for the 240v sockets please
Cheers, and sure, they're Berker sockets and we got them from here: www.furneauxriddall.com/collections/berker-switches-sockets?gad_source=1 . Quite a lot of variety depending on what you want! 👍
@@SelfBuiltStories thank you
@@SelfBuiltStories what are you going to be doing with the renogy inverter if you dont mind me asking
No problem! And we sold it actually, helped offset the cost of the Victron one 😄
This is a really great and helpful video -- thank you! We are currently also working on a camper conversion, and ours will be fully electric. So your video came at a good time and gave me some food for thought, particularly about ground-neutral bonding. Our inverter -- a Giandel 4kW one -- does not have a built in ground-neutral bond, and no option to change this, I don't believe. I wonder if you had any thoughts or advice on two things related to this. First, I wondered about the best location to establish the bond. As you said in response to a comment below, you should certainly only have *one* bond in the system. Is the best location (some particular place) in the consumer unit? Or possibly a connection on the inverter itself? Second, I've been wondering about the connection of the circuit ground to the vehicle chassis. In the case of an Earth fault, presumably the chassis would then be "live" -- experience an AC surge -- for however long it takes for the RCD to trip. I wondered if that was long enough to potentially damage any electrical components in the vehicle, since they tend to use the vehicle chassis as a return for the DC neutral. I understand, of course, that nothing here should be construed as official "advice" or whatever, and -- like you -- I intend to have our set up checked by an electrician eventually. But I'd be really interested in your thoughts on this. Thanks again.
Glad it was helpful! It's a huge minefield whenever you search for anything related to inverter earthing as there are so many different variables and (often wrong) points of view.
If you're using an inverter with just a single socket and no shore power (as we used temporarily in our van with the Renogy inverter) then the floating setup is quite safe. In that floating (IT earthing) setup the safety is built in to the fact that it's just impossible to have a single device with a single fault cause a shock scenario. Any first fault though is undetected, the system just works despite having that fault there.
As soon as you want to have multiple devices that's where things get interesting, and one quirk is that if you add in the earth wire into the system you actually make it _more_ dangerous, until you correctly setup an RCD. That's because adding the earth wire means the inherit first fault safety of the IT system no longer applies. The safety is now provided by the RCD instead, which if setup correctly means you get fault detection on all faults including the first and the system is again made quite safe. So it's very important the RCD is functional and both the test button on it and something like a socket tester shows it's working, and it's periodically tested to check that's still the case.
As described in the video an RCD can only work if there is that N-E bond somewhere in the system. If you're plugged into shore power the bond will happen back at the substation or pedestal that you're hooked up to, so it's already provided. If you're disconnected or don't have shore power then it must be provided within the van setup. An inverter-charger should make or break that bond as required to ensure that there is only ever one bond at one time, either the one from the grid or an internal bond that it makes inside itself (essentially doing what we did with the phoenix, but automatically disconnecting it when you plug into shore power).
If the inverter is like ours and has provisions for making the bond internally then that would be the best place to do it. Otherwise as close to the inverter as possible like in the consumer unit would probably be the place. *BUT* all inverters are different, and most of the documentation about how they work internally is poor. Some already have the bond, some don't, some let you configure it yourself. Some potentially have built in RCD/GFCI devices. I'd recommend checking out this resource which is pretty good at going through some of it: diysolarforum.com/resources/grounding-made-simpler-part-4-mobile-systems.159/ . The whole series is good but particularly this part 4 on mobile systems is useful, and there is also some findings from specific inverters as well.
On your second point I don't think it's an issue, at least not one that I worry about. Typical RCDs are required to trip with very low fault currents, a maximum of 30mA but in practice it's usually less. And they have to trip within a fraction of a second, I believe up to a maximum of 300ms. The inverter manual will almost certainly dictate that it must be grounded to the chassis as well.
Definitely would advise getting it all checked over by an electrician as well as you're planning to, there's a lot of specifics that would depend on your particular setup, but HTH a bit anyway! 🙂👍
@@SelfBuiltStories Thanks so much for taking the time to reply in such depth -- I really appreciate it. Your response pretty much confirms what I've been thinking also. It's kind of surprising to me what a minefield this earth bonding issue is, particularly since a lot of the issue is that it can be quite hard to figure out for any given inverter how, exactly, it is internally wired. You'd think that's in the documentation, but you're correct that it clearly often isn't (it sure isn't in the documentation for ours). -- EDIT: I had added another comment below but that may have disappeared into the ether. I just wanted to note that in Australia, there are, I believe, two companies producing/marketing what are basically *RVDs* (residual *voltage* devices, aka "voltage-operated earth-leakage circuit breakers") particularly to the camper market. In a set up without true Earth, those can -- I think -- provide a neat way of providing extra safety by checking if there is unexpectedly/dangerously high *voltage* on the Earth circuit (and tripping the device and cutting power if the answer is yes). I believe they can also be (and I think are in at least one product inherently) paired with RCDs. The companies are rvdsafe and powersafe. In reading up on this, I discovered that RVDs apparently used to be commonplace in the UK many years ago. But their disadvantages compared to RCDs in domestic settings means that they have apparently been more or less completely phased out here.
@@lazygun37_ No problem 👍 Yeah not sure what happened to the other comment, it popped up then disappeared 🤷♂I've come across RVDs referenced before but don't know too much about them or have any experience with them. Extra safety is never a bad idea though 👍
I was pretty curious about the power consumption of that inverter microwave but unfortunately you did not focus on that. But I am surprised to see that 12v- 1200VA inverter can run that oven without any trouble.
The 1200VA phoenix inverter we have has a rated constant power of 1000W at 25°C (and that drops to 850W at 40°C). So It's not powerful enough to run the microwave on full power as it would likely trigger the overload protection. We used it on low power more as a fun test to see if it would run, but we're not having a microwave in the van and if we were we would either need to source a low wattage one or fit a larger inverter. This one can happily run it on the low speed though with no issues, in use it was showing it as 776VA in the victron app which is within the green. HTH! 👍🏻
@@SelfBuiltStories thanks for your reply and I wish you all the best . Keep it up
@@ferdm9646 no problem, and cheers! 🙂
Hey!
Awesome video!
I just got a question for my installation and hope you maybe can help:
I just bought the inverter „Powertech Pure Sine Wave 500W“.
I want to mount it into my Campervan. Therefore I’ve also bought a RCD which I want to mount between the inverter and my socket (only got 1 socket with two outlets).
My question now is:
The datasheet of the Powertech says that it got overload protection. Does that mean it already got a built in MCB?
Usually you install a RCD before the MCB.
Would that be a problem with my installation including only one socket with two outlets?
Kind regards
Marius
Hey, cheers :) Most inverter documentation is quite lacking in detail and unless they specifically mention something it's hard to say for sure. Most inverters have a few safety features built in, but overload protection could just be a simple fuse which doesn't provide the full set of safety features that an MCB gives. If it was me I would always fit a downstream RCD and MCB as then you know exactly what you're getting and can choose ones with the tripping characteristics that you need. It's no problem to add additional safety over and above what the inverter is providing you, it just gives you extra layers of protection 👍
Great video guys! Did you have a consumer unit when using the Renogy 1000W inverter? From watching Greg Virgos videos he contacted Renogy and they suggested you didn't need one, it had a consumer unit built in?
We have a 3000W inverted and about to install it.
Thanks,
Cheers! And no we just used the single socket on the back when we used it, as it's not setup out of the box to work with a consumer unit/RCD. I think I've watched the video you're referring to actually where he shows an email from renogy support at the end that says it has an in-built RCD, but I was incredibly dubious when I saw their email to be honest. Renogy makes quite nice products but their support is pretty bad, and it's incredibly hard to find someone who understands them on a technical level. They also make very similar products but for different territories which have different electrical and earthing requirements, so I think a lot of the initial sales/support staff are not sufficiently clued up. And inverter earthing is an incredibly detailed rabbit hole to go down as well!
l've had several email exchanges with them myself and phone calls with one of the engineers. I don't believe there is any built in earth leakage protection in their UK inverter (possibly in the US with GFCIs it might be different). If you check the comments on Greg's video there's a few people who've had similar experiences and if I remember he replied to one of them and agreed that was most likely the case.
Renogy's manual also is woefully lacking on any subject of earthing and bonding, but for an RCD to actually work there needs to be the N-E bond. You can test with a multimeter that isn't the case with the Renogy. In contrast Victron documentation is very detailed and they actually have an appendix in the manual for making the bond, if required for your setup: www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Inverter-VE.Direct-250VA-1200VA-EN-NL-FR-DE-ES-IT.pdf .
We used the renogy one quite a bit travelling around last Summer and it worked great, but only ever with the one device. I wouldn't want to use it with an extension lead or wired into sockets unless it was going via an RCD, which would require making that bond in a suitable and safe way and checking with a tester that it actually works. The added complication though is the renogy also supports AC pass through from the grid, so when using that mode you need the bond to _not_ be there, as it comes from the grid setup. It should only be switched on when inverting and standalone. So you need something like a relay that makes the connection when inverting and disconnects it on grid power. There are people that I've seen have it set up like that but it's a bit more work with that one, there's an example here: ua-cam.com/video/Ka0lamFY7To/v-deo.htmlsi=JbEkqxNVgLz260p3&t=536 . HTH! 👍
If you check out "vandercamp" youtube video. He is a UK based van lifer who is also a fully qualified time served electrical engineer. He has a full youtube 2 part video about the install of his renogy 3000w inverter charger and how he installed a consumer unit on the output side which got around the potential "center tapped" renogy inverter issues. He was in what sounded like long and torturous contact with renogy to get answers to his questions in the process. I don't think renogy customer support is as none existent as many claim, it's just extremely slow and laborious.
@@lincolndave1966able Cool, yeah I have seen a few people use the renogy inverter and configure it for this kind of setup. They do have some nice products (we're using their solar panels and they've been great), but the support side could definitely be better. It's not none-existent but you're right it is slow. But I also think it is more difficult to get knowledgeable support. Personally I think the manual for their inverter should be a lot more thorough too. Although that applies to most manufacturers, not just Renogy.
Hey guys, am I correct in thinking that with the 2 cables you’ve installed to the same MCB, that both lives and neutrals from the two cables have gone into each appropriate slot on the MCB? (Difficult to see from the video) if so, how did you combine both strands from each cable before inserting into the MCB? A ferrule that allows two wires to be inserted? Cheers
Hiya, we didn't have any double ferrules to combine them (those do exist though), so we put a ferrule on each of the ends and then both ferrules into the slot on the MCB. It has a rising clamp type terminal not a screw so it grips both of them nice and solid 👍
Was the inverter a pure sinewave or modified sinewave? The modified sinewave ones dont like power packs for say laptops, can cause the power pack to get very hot.
Yep, exactly, the phoenix is a pure sine wave low frequency inverter so we have no problems powering everything we're using in the van. We talk about that a bit at 2:12 👍
I’m sure I remember watching a video of yours somewhere of a chart type thing you used to know what type of cable etc to wire into what device…hope that makes sense?! If such a chart does exist can you let me know how to obtain a copy of it please?
Was it this one maybe? assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/newsletter/images/DC_wire_selection_chartlg.jpg 😎👍
@@SelfBuiltStories thanks, that’s it! I couldn’t remember exactly what it was as it’s been a fair while since I watched the pre-wire video you did…I’ve been binge watching your build videos…you two are awesome! Thanks for all the effort you’ve put into delivering amazing content for UA-cam…this has been without a doubt the best van conversion series I’ve watched. 👏😎
@@DamonG87 no problem, and thank you! Glad you think so 🙂
So out of curiosity, since the ground wire is now connected to the neutral, and you've connected the ground to the chassis, what would happen if someone let's say with bare feet touches the van from the outside while the inverter is on?
Assuming everything is wired correctly and it's a similar setup to what we have (no shore power) then nothing would happen. The neutral inside the inverter is connected to the earth in the inverter, and the inverter casing is grounded to the van metal. So there is continuity between the neutral and the van metal, but in order for anything bad to happen and get a shock there needs to be a path for current to flow. Electricity goes back to its source, not to earth, so the only reason it would travel through you and through the earth is if it could get back to complete the circuit, but that isn't the case in this setup.
There is though something called 'hot skin' which can happen if you have a shore power hookup connection and there is a problem with the wiring. That can be caused by a bad earth connection, or if for example you're plugged in but there is reverse polarity on the point you're hooked up to, then the neutral might become live which would then energise the outside of the van to the same potential. In that case then in your example you might get a shock, as the hookup electric point might have a connection to earth and so now because you're touching the van metal there is a path back through you, the ground, and to the supply. Because of that issue there are very strict requirements, at least in the UK, on shore power hookup points at campsites etc and the earthing arrangements they must have. Here's an article which talks about those requirements a bit more: electrical.theiet.org/media/1187/electrical-installations-in-caravan-camping-parks-caravans-and-motor-caravans.pdf .
For similar reasons you're also not supposed to plug in to just a normal 3-pin socket at your own house unless it's been designed as a hookup point with similar requirements, as although the risk is low it could cause the same hot skin effect if there is a fault which then gets replicated to the van chassis. There's rules relating to that in ESQCR 2002.
In our case though our only source of 230V is from the inverter and self contained within the van so we're fortunate in that our setup and earthing requirements are (a bit) simpler 👍
Do you know how to get super fast charging USB sockets from your 12v outlets? Is it possible to make a USB powerful enough to charge your Macbook?
Hiya, yes it is possible if you have the right combination of kit. My macbook (and a lot of other laptops) can charge via the USB C ports so I can plug it into with a cable to the cigarette lighter adapters we have in the van, or even a portable power bank and it will charge. The trick to getting it to charge at a decent rate is to have a high enough wattage charger. My mac comes with a 96W wall charger, so it would need something that is capable of delivering that much power. (support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212755#:~:text=On%20MacBook%20Pro%20(14%2Dinch,or%20USB%2DC%20charge%20cable ). For that wattage you need a charger that supports USB C PD (Power Delivery) 3.0 or 3.1, and is also listed at being able to output 100W+. One gotcha to watch out for is that some of them will be marketed as something like 90W, but in reality there's two ports on the device and each one can only deliver 45W, so you need to check the specs to make sure you get can the full power from just one of the ports.
It will still charge with lesser power ones but it will take a lot longer, and if the laptop is in use at the same time it might not provide enough power to actually charge, just slow down the rate of discharging. Something like this would theoretically work (www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-USB-Charger-130W-Cable/dp/B0B3CSLPZR ), but I haven't tried it myself. HTH 👍
Why not a Multiplus? Forgive me if i missed it in the video.
Just because we decided we didn't really need shore power as we spend most of our time off grid so we would hardly ever make use of it. We generate all the power we need from solar and our dc charger 👍🏼
A daft question maybe, and at my age I have no hair so don't use them, but can you get hair dryers under 1000w ?
It's not a daft question actually, most hair dryers are over 1000W. They're usually more in the 2-3000W range as in most domestic situations people would favour more heat and faster drying over saving a bit of power, so we had to hunt for a bit to find one that would work! You can get travel hairdryers which are designed with low power usage in mind which are more in the 800-1200W range, there aren't loads of options but they do exist. What we have looks more like a toy hairdryer though! It's just a random one from Muji which happens to be really low power, more like 450W. But it still works good enough for Abi and she's been using it in the van for over a year now! (You can see it at 33:47) 😛
Interestingly though we found when we were testing it out that it works on high speed (~450W) but didn't work on low speed (~200W), as it caused the inverter to give an overload warning at shut down. That confused us for a while, but it turns out that some devices with variable power like that use rectifiers and things to take the full AC wave form and just cut bits out to reduce the power down. But one quirk is that an inverter finds that much harder to power. So that was a bit of a funny one, but as long as she turns it on and flicks straight to high power mode straight away it works like a dream!
@@SelfBuiltStories Thanks for the reply, my wife and I follow you as we just started our own van conversion.
No problem, good luck with the build! 🙂👍🏻
I think you don't really need that MCB since you're powering everything through fused plug, not sure if MCB will trigger faster than fuse though.
It's an interesting thought as there are some similarities, the ceramic fuse in the plug works similarly to the overload portion of the MCB with the bi-metatilic strip in that they both heat up and then trip/blow. They have different trip curves though and would reach that point at different times which are well defined. The 10A MCB we're using would trip in ~50 seconds with 20A passed into it for example: www.electricaltechnology.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Type-B-Trip-Curve.png . Whereas the 13A fuse would not trip till a little over 20A and take a long time at that current level: www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/fuse-operation-characteristics.php .But the MCB also has the magnetic part as well which would blow very quickly once it reached 30-50A, whereas the fuse doesn't have that. So you want the MCB, but yeah the plug fuse gives us an extra layer of protection as well which isn't a bad thing, but in our case the MCB should always trip well before the fuse and is much simpler to reset if that happened too👍
Of course you need the mcb. The mcb's job is to protect the wires from the board to the sockets. The plug top fuses job is to protect the wires from the plug to the device. I would change the fuses in the plugs though. Your mcb is 10 amp so the fuses really should be smaller. Its called discrimination or i think you brits call it selectivity now.
@@CalmeRyowl I was talking about fused plug they used to connect to power source (inverter).
@@JGnLAU8OAWF6 fair enough. I would absolutely prefer an mcb to a fuse. It will operate faster. I suppose it’s very similar to a domestic set up at the moment with the suppliers fuse and then your own mcbs down stream. I would never trust a fuse on its own.
@@CalmeRyowl Ah yes the plug fuses are a separate part of it. They're not 13A, they're rated according to each appliance and supplied with them. Lower power devices like the ones we're using in the van will have much smaller fuses, more in the 3-7A range. Those fuses are built into standard UK 3-pin appliances. The extra fuse we're talking about in the inverter plug lead though is there only because the phoenix does not have hardwired AC out terminals, as opposed to the the larger inverters and chargers (e.g. the multiplus). So to wire it into a consumer unit requires wiring a plug tail complete with fuse. You definitely want an MCB in the consumer unit as you say though as it's purpose designed for it and has the two different tripping parts to provide the necessary safety 👍
thanks to Nikola Tesla
Yep! 🙏😄