Today I had the idea to do some wraps and stumbled across this video not realizing that it was uploaded just one day ago. How lucky. Thanks a lot! It gave me all the basics to play around
same here, I was just thinking there must be a better way to interect with plugins, found this video, and when I was going to hit like.. daaaamn 3 days ago, this is great timing.
PLEASE make more videos like this. i want to start reskinning waves stuff. itll be something that takes some time but i wanna do it right and your teaching is extremely insightful. LOVE this video bro. Thank you.
@@ELPHNT I have been wanting to dive into an EQ but its pretty intimidating. My goal is to try and wrap Pro Q 4 from Fab Filter. How would you go about getting a visual representation of the signal pre and post on this wrapper or get the controls like the Q of a point to react to scrolling to either increase or decrease? is this even possible. I personally would enjoy just a deep dive into each of the Live. items you can add while in Max and their use case in its own video. Thank you for doing what you do
@@sound_freq TBH, something like Pro Q is a little pointless to wrap. It has such a custom interface that you'd essentially be rebuilding the whole plugin. Side note: I'd recommend checking out Equation by Incandescent [incandescent.gumroad.com/l/Equation] for a pretty 'FabFilter' type interface in a Live device). The best candidates for wrappers are plugins that have "dumb" interfaces, i.e. just a bunch of buttons and knobs, like your classic 'analog clone' type plugins. There is very much a limit to where wrappers stop being useful.
Very cool, I wish this video came out a bit sooner. I made a wrapper for LFOTool to be able to receive MIDI from a choosable MIDI track, and I had to piece together the info from the various help objects... and I still learned new things from this video.
This is a great tutorial video Tom. I need to learn to do this for my plugins. I feel that way about them too. Especially as I make my music on a 13" MacBook Pro, screen real estate is everything.
Hello, Thank you very much for this very informative presentation. I would have a small question concerning the change of images in 2 states "Link" and "Unlink" at 1:08:38 Is it possible to display more than 2 photos on a "live.dial" rotary? Example: on a rotary from 0 to 100, I want to display the 1st image between the values 0 and 33, the second image between 34 and 66 and the 3rd image between 67 and 100? Thank you for your help and a very happy new year 2025 to you and your loved ones.
Yes, this would definitely be possible but might require some extra patching as there's no 'easy' way to do it built into Max. You'll probably need to look into something like jsui. Otherwise, you could do some patching to programatically hide and show different fpics at different values.
This is so cool. Thank you for taking the time to show this. I thought it would be great for the new dsp56300 synth emulator's like the virus, nord, and waldorf. Just making a simple interface for the basics like (Cutoff, ADSR, Preset Change)
Definitely. What I find with more complex plugins like synths is trying to wrap all of the controls is a little cumbersome and can make the device quite slow. What tends to work best is some kind of 'Macros' type setup where you wrap the most important controls into a Live interface but then have an 'Open Plugin' button for more complex things. Good luck!
I'm not sure I'll do any more videos on this subject, but working with Instruments is pretty much the same as with Audio Effects, with a few slight differences. I think you'll definitely be able to pick it up yourself with a little tinkering 😉
Great tutorial, I'm not sure about one thing tho. If a certain plugin requires a selectable sidechain, how can I create a menu inside my wrapper that let me select the correct track from live? Something just like the standard Sidechain dropdown menu we have in many different plugins.
I was gonna make a series on this, as well as a few other things, cause there were no explanations of how to do certain things. So I spent ages learning how to make stuff in max, just so I could make a video like this. Ya beat me to it hahaha
This is fantastic-just what I needed for my current project! I’m trying to access and display the presets of my VST in a dropdown list, but I haven’t been successful so far. Any suggestions?
This video gave me the idea of wanting to create an FX Style Rack using different Ableton stock plugins. Can you use this "wrapper" method and have it work with multiple stock live devices and control it all in one wrapper? Controls i thought about having: input gain, compression, stereo width, HPF, LPF with resonance control, output gain, etc. If not, is it possible to do this and if yes, is there a video or a link to help achieve this type of project?
Great video! I’m really interested in how you set up the vu meter for the treq actually. I’m trying make wrappers for my tape / distortion plugins and I want to make an input vu meter and an output one like it shows on the plug-in so I can clip the “tape” could you / are you planning to break that down in another video?
I'm not planning on looking at this in another video, but I'd recommend just opening the wrappers themselves and taking a look at how its done. There is also a native VU style meter in Max called levelmeter~ so check that out 😉
Super valuable tutorial, thanks so much... BUT: what happens if there is a new version of the plugin? Did not yet have the chance to test it. Would the wrapper automagically use the new vst?
I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was a minor update (i.e. a bugfix or something like that) then it should continue to work just fine. The vst~ object in Max finds the correct plugin to load based on the plugin's name, so I think as long as that doesn't change it should be fine. Don't quote me on that though 🙃
Unfortunately I don't think you can have the vst~ object send out parameter names instead of their index 😢 But, if you could, route should work with strings simply by putting the string as the selector, i.e. "route string"
Yes, in general wrapping plugins adds additional processing and hence additional CPU. Depending on what and how you're wrapping this can be pretty marginal, but its worth being aware of as a trade off.
AWESOME TUTORIAL!! Thanks for sharing! Is there any trick or workaround to get the .vst parameter value output format string (e.g. “500 Hz”) to display on the live.dial, or at least on the push display ? Your trick with the comment box is great for displaying the value on the device in ableton live, but on the Push it still displays an abstract number (e.g. 0-100) under the encoder. It would be great to have the value of the encoder on Push display the .vst’s real value of “500 Hz” instead of an abstract number range like just 0-100. I know can set the display and range of a live.dial to show whatever value I want, like "0-500" and the unit to anything like "Hz", but as you mentioned, because often the values coming out of the .vst object are custom exponents, the two values never quite match with this method... hence my idea about trying to somehow feed the real value "0-500 Hz" value coming out the .vst object back into the live.dial... but as I am sure you know, just feeding the live.dial back into itself doesn't work because the exponent nature of the parameter coming out of the .vst messes things up... I hope this explanation all makes sense :/ haha! ...any ideas?
So I'm working on a wrapper for this delay plugin, the regular interface has a knob that controls the time in milliseconds, and then a toggle next to it to sync it and the unit on the knob changes to beat multiples, like 1x, 2x, 0.75x, etc. In the vst~ object, the parameters are separate for time in ms and synced time. Right now I have the time knob controlling both of them and the toggle determines which time param is active, but the units on the time knob are in ms either way. Anybody know of a way to change the units on the knob from ms to multiples depending on the toggle's state? Like maybe a way to have 2 live.dials and hide one and show the other depending on the toggle's state?
Hi Elephnt, i'm trying to create a wrapper for TBProAudio DPMeter where it just displays the crest factor output from the plugin. This value constantly changes depending on the audio input. How do I get the value the plugin is displaying to output via the maxforlive window?
Unfortunately there isn't a way to get info like that out of a plugin as VST plugins only send audio information out. The only way to display that in a wrapper would be to do the calculation yourself inside Max and create a custom meter to display it.
@@ELPHNT Thanks for getting back to me. Crest is something I haven't seen from a Max For Live plugin before. The maths would be pretty easy, but you'd also need a reset function and whether you want the time window to be integrated etc. Do-able I think
Today I had the idea to do some wraps and stumbled across this video not realizing that it was uploaded just one day ago. How lucky. Thanks a lot! It gave me all the basics to play around
same here, I was just thinking there must be a better way to interect with plugins, found this video, and when I was going to hit like.. daaaamn 3 days ago, this is great timing.
PLEASE make more videos like this. i want to start reskinning waves stuff. itll be something that takes some time but i wanna do it right and your teaching is extremely insightful. LOVE this video bro. Thank you.
What more would you want to see that isn't covered here?
@@ELPHNT I have been wanting to dive into an EQ but its pretty intimidating. My goal is to try and wrap Pro Q 4 from Fab Filter. How would you go about getting a visual representation of the signal pre and post on this wrapper or get the controls like the Q of a point to react to scrolling to either increase or decrease? is this even possible. I personally would enjoy just a deep dive into each of the Live. items you can add while in Max and their use case in its own video. Thank you for doing what you do
@@sound_freq TBH, something like Pro Q is a little pointless to wrap. It has such a custom interface that you'd essentially be rebuilding the whole plugin. Side note: I'd recommend checking out Equation by Incandescent [incandescent.gumroad.com/l/Equation] for a pretty 'FabFilter' type interface in a Live device). The best candidates for wrappers are plugins that have "dumb" interfaces, i.e. just a bunch of buttons and knobs, like your classic 'analog clone' type plugins. There is very much a limit to where wrappers stop being useful.
Saw the sign ups for the workshops a while ago and couldnt participate. So glad that this is out, cant wait to do this for all my plugins lol
Hehe, have fun 🙃
Mannn you finally uploaded it❤
You told me you had this idea a few months ago and i was waiting and waiting 🙏
Haha, yeah... sorry about the wait 😅
First time getting into Max 4 Live and your video is outstanding!!! Thank you 🙏
Brilliant use for Max.
Love the idea, thanks a bunch for the tutorial.
Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for your work
Very cool, I wish this video came out a bit sooner. I made a wrapper for LFOTool to be able to receive MIDI from a choosable MIDI track, and I had to piece together the info from the various help objects... and I still learned new things from this video.
Nice 😎
Amazing video, allot of fun creating our own wrappers, thank you
This is a great tutorial video Tom. I need to learn to do this for my plugins. I feel that way about them too. Especially as I make my music on a 13" MacBook Pro, screen real estate is everything.
Nice, you posted it! Any plans for a part 2 -- deeper dive, more design? Would love to join.
No plans at the moment, there's not much more I could add to this, tbh 🤷♂️ Will definitely do more general Max videos though.
Hello,
Thank you very much for this very informative presentation.
I would have a small question concerning the change of images in 2 states "Link" and "Unlink" at 1:08:38
Is it possible to display more than 2 photos on a "live.dial" rotary?
Example: on a rotary from 0 to 100, I want to display the 1st image between the values 0 and 33, the second image between 34 and 66 and the 3rd image between 67 and 100?
Thank you for your help and a very happy new year 2025 to you and your loved ones.
Yes, this would definitely be possible but might require some extra patching as there's no 'easy' way to do it built into Max. You'll probably need to look into something like jsui. Otherwise, you could do some patching to programatically hide and show different fpics at different values.
@@ELPHNT Hi,
Thanks for the advice ... I will look for a program that resembles what I want to do.
Have a nice end of the day
Really great video, thank you for sharing!
incredible video, thank you sir
This is so cool. Thank you for taking the time to show this. I thought it would be great for the new dsp56300 synth emulator's like the virus, nord, and waldorf. Just making a simple interface for the basics like (Cutoff, ADSR, Preset Change)
Definitely. What I find with more complex plugins like synths is trying to wrap all of the controls is a little cumbersome and can make the device quite slow. What tends to work best is some kind of 'Macros' type setup where you wrap the most important controls into a Live interface but then have an 'Open Plugin' button for more complex things. Good luck!
Wow, great. Thank you
awesome video
love to see instrument part also thanks for your lovely video always
I'm not sure I'll do any more videos on this subject, but working with Instruments is pretty much the same as with Audio Effects, with a few slight differences. I think you'll definitely be able to pick it up yourself with a little tinkering 😉
This man is a saint
very cool tutorial man
Great tutorial, I'm not sure about one thing tho. If a certain plugin requires a selectable sidechain, how can I create a menu inside my wrapper that let me select the correct track from live? Something just like the standard Sidechain dropdown menu we have in many different plugins.
Unfortunately there isn't a way to wrap plugins that have a sidechain in a way that allows you to access the sidechain input 😢
I was gonna make a series on this, as well as a few other things, cause there were no explanations of how to do certain things. So I spent ages learning how to make stuff in max, just so I could make a video like this. Ya beat me to it hahaha
Thank you!!!
You're welcome!
excellent
This is fantastic-just what I needed for my current project! I’m trying to access and display the presets of my VST in a dropdown list, but I haven’t been successful so far. Any suggestions?
Great video, something I’ve been interested in for a while. Also btw, are you by any chance South African? Your accent sounds familiar
Sure am 🇿🇦😎
This video gave me the idea of wanting to create an FX Style Rack using different Ableton stock plugins. Can you use this "wrapper" method and have it work with multiple stock live devices and control it all in one wrapper? Controls i thought about having: input gain, compression, stereo width, HPF, LPF with resonance control, output gain, etc. If not, is it possible to do this and if yes, is there a video or a link to help achieve this type of project?
Unfortunately you can't wrap native Live devices, only 3rd party plugins.
thank you
👏👏👏
Great video! I’m really interested in how you set up the vu meter for the treq actually. I’m trying make wrappers for my tape / distortion plugins and I want to make an input vu meter and an output one like it shows on the plug-in so I can clip the “tape” could you / are you planning to break that down in another video?
I'm not planning on looking at this in another video, but I'd recommend just opening the wrappers themselves and taking a look at how its done. There is also a native VU style meter in Max called levelmeter~ so check that out 😉
I love this is there a repository of wrappers some where ?
You'll find my own collection of wrappers at elphnt.io/experiments/
You can also do a search for 'wrapper' on maxforlive.com/index.php
Super valuable tutorial, thanks so much... BUT: what happens if there is a new version of the plugin? Did not yet have the chance to test it. Would the wrapper automagically use the new vst?
I'm not 100% sure, but I think it was a minor update (i.e. a bugfix or something like that) then it should continue to work just fine. The vst~ object in Max finds the correct plugin to load based on the plugin's name, so I think as long as that doesn't change it should be fine. Don't quote me on that though 🙃
How would you use "route" based on parameter string, rather than parameter index? Great video!
Unfortunately I don't think you can have the vst~ object send out parameter names instead of their index 😢 But, if you could, route should work with strings simply by putting the string as the selector, i.e. "route string"
plugin wrappers add an additional layer of modulation. so if im using automations on it wouldn't this cause more cpu usage?
Yes, in general wrapping plugins adds additional processing and hence additional CPU. Depending on what and how you're wrapping this can be pretty marginal, but its worth being aware of as a trade off.
Goat
AWESOME TUTORIAL!! Thanks for sharing! Is there any trick or workaround to get the .vst parameter value output format string (e.g. “500 Hz”) to display on the live.dial, or at least on the push display ? Your trick with the comment box is great for displaying the value on the device in ableton live, but on the Push it still displays an abstract number (e.g. 0-100) under the encoder. It would be great to have the value of the encoder on Push display the .vst’s real value of “500 Hz” instead of an abstract number range like just 0-100.
I know can set the display and range of a live.dial to show whatever value I want, like "0-500" and the unit to anything like "Hz", but as you mentioned, because often the values coming out of the .vst object are custom exponents, the two values never quite match with this method... hence my idea about trying to somehow feed the real value "0-500 Hz" value coming out the .vst object back into the live.dial... but as I am sure you know, just feeding the live.dial back into itself doesn't work because the exponent nature of the parameter coming out of the .vst messes things up...
I hope this explanation all makes sense :/ haha! ...any ideas?
Haha, no ideas 😅 I've tried a few things but haven't quite figured it out. I'm sure it must be possible though!
So I'm working on a wrapper for this delay plugin, the regular interface has a knob that controls the time in milliseconds, and then a toggle next to it to sync it and the unit on the knob changes to beat multiples, like 1x, 2x, 0.75x, etc. In the vst~ object, the parameters are separate for time in ms and synced time. Right now I have the time knob controlling both of them and the toggle determines which time param is active, but the units on the time knob are in ms either way. Anybody know of a way to change the units on the knob from ms to multiples depending on the toggle's state? Like maybe a way to have 2 live.dials and hide one and show the other depending on the toggle's state?
You're on the right track with having 2 live.dials and then hiding and showing them when you switch between the 2 modes 😉
Can you make another video on dynamic meters and animations?
I'll look into that for the future! I need to get a little more comfortable with how to do it myself first.
Explain please how to save state of VST inside M4L
In the Inspector of the vst~ object in Max, make sure "Parameter Mode Enable" is on and "Autosave snapshot" is off.
Hi Elephnt, i'm trying to create a wrapper for TBProAudio DPMeter where it just displays the crest factor output from the plugin. This value constantly changes depending on the audio input. How do I get the value the plugin is displaying to output via the maxforlive window?
Unfortunately there isn't a way to get info like that out of a plugin as VST plugins only send audio information out. The only way to display that in a wrapper would be to do the calculation yourself inside Max and create a custom meter to display it.
@@ELPHNT Thanks for getting back to me. Crest is something I haven't seen from a Max For Live plugin before. The maths would be pretty easy, but you'd also need a reset function and whether you want the time window to be integrated etc. Do-able I think
Please build archetype cory wong
Amazing video!