In response to the questions raised about the HDMI output and my comments referencing that it is 10-bit 422, it is our (and Atomos') understanding that the output is 10-bit 422 in both HD and 4K. The difference is in the internal recording capabilities, with HD being 10-bit 4:2:2 and 4K being 8-bit 4:2:0. The sensor works in 10-bit when set to 4K and Sony had previously confirmed to Atomos this is not changed on output. However we are querying this again to get full confirmation, so I will post back soon to advise further. There is a similar interview between Dan Chung of News Shooter and Jeromy Young, CEO of Atomos (available on the NewShooter site, posted on the 18th November) in which the HDMI output is discussed - around 7mins in. Work checking out that interview too. On the subject of RAW, if and when Sony add RAW capabilities to the FS5, Sony output compressed RAW but recorders such as Atomos' Shogun will then decompress that before recording. At present Shogun support is to decompress RAW and encode as ProRes/DNx, but CinemaDNG support is in development. Although it's not confirmed at this stage the ambition is to record 12-bit RAW. It is most likely that Sony will output RAW on the FS5 in a similar fashion to how it is handled on the FS700, using the 3G/HD-SDI output to provide the data stream. This would require a Shogun to be used rather than a Ninja Assassin due to the omission of SDI on the Assassin. It's important to note that no official details have been announced relating to RAW on the FS5 at this time.
+Richard Warburton Hi Richard. Thanks for joining the conversation. Some sources seem to be saying the HDMI and the HD-SDI are both 10 bit. Some say that the HDSDI is 10 bit while the HDMI is 8 bit. Theres definitely some confusion in the air! Any clarification you get from Sony or Atomos would be fantastic. Thanks for all your help. Carl
+Miguel Mejia Apologies for the belated update but after investigations last month with Sony and several conflicting summaries I can now confirm that when the FS5 is working at a 4K resolution the HDMI output is 8-bit 422 rather than 10-bit as Atomos had originally believed based on information given to them by Sony. We are therefore sorry for any confusion. Although Atomos' Ninja Assassin/Shogun receives an 8-bit 4K signal it is still a 422 signal, meaning the external recorder can capture 422 with the extra sub sampling, improving upon the 420 internal 4K recording. Furthermore Atomos ProRes recording is always 10-bit, even if the signal is 8-bit and although no visual improvement is realised you do benefit from having a 10-bit file to work with in post, potentially giving you greater scope in post production depending on the type of post work involved. Avid DNxHR is 8-bit or 10-bit file capture, depending on the flavour used. To confirm the HD output is 10-bit 422, only 4K output is limited to 8-bit over HDMI. As to what Sony will do with RAW is purely speculative at this time.
Hi, I am very new to all this so I listen and read and try to learn. I am not in a position to add anything very useful myself - yet! However, what I would like say is that finding a site raising the issues like this has been most welcome. It is never all light and wonder and seeing the foibles being raised (no o/p when recording UHD internally) and the resultant very interesting comments encourages me to believe I have found a useful resource and one where I may well place my order(s). Bob.
+Robert Hawtin Hi Robert Really glad to hear you are finding our videos helpful. We all think its very important to be critical of cameras, as no camera is ever perfect. If a camera manufacturer ever made a perfect camera they would quickly go out of business as they wouldn't be able to make anything better. If theres anything we can ever help with please just let us know Carl
Question: when in 4k mode, what’s the maximum output out of the HDMI slot? Is it 10 bit 422? As I know you can record Raw 12 bit from the SDI, but what is recorded from the HDMI?
Sorry to jump here, but actually the colour sampling qualities in 4K (actually, QFHD) that you can get from FS5 are:1.) 4:2:0 8-bit internally, over XAVC-Long GOP codec (60 or 100 Mbps)2.) 4:2:2 10-bit via HDMIAnd, of course, as announced, in the future there will be an optional upgrade (I don't know when nor at which price) that will allow SDI interface to provide FS RAW signal (the same as we can get from FS700 and from FS7 + XDCA-FS7).What I am not sure about is whether that 8-bit-to-10-bit "upconversion" (it does not improve quality, of course) is done in the HDMI output itself or internally on Atomos equipment (sorry for my lack of knowledge).And sincere regards to my friends from both ProAV and Atomos; hope to see you again soon ;)PS: sorry, I cannot add spaces via "Enter" key through Explorer...
The HDMI does not output 10 bit video, it outputs 8 bit video, the recorder only has 10 bit Codec's to encode this 8 bit file, the two extra bits remain empty but the reduction in compression, the improvement in chroma sub sampling and the i frame encoding all go a small way to improving the image quality but 10 bit source video it certainly is not. I say this as an FS5 owner
+Anthony Brown Oh... I read my own comment yesterday and felt totally ashamed. As you say, HDMI is 8-bit. I do REALLY apologize for the mistake when writing.
+Alvaro Ortiz Not to worry Alvaro, thanks for clarifying. So looks like the consensus is that the FS5 will record 8 bit internally AND output 8bit over HDMI. the Atomos recorders will record this as a 10bit file, but as the HDMI is only sending 8 bit its really only 8 bit. With the upcoming paid RAW upgrade however the SDI will output 12bit RAW. Does that sound correct to everyone? Carl
+Andrew Welch Hi Andrew. It gets very complicated, and I certainly wouldn't claim to be an expert. The way I understand it though is that when a camera (like the FS5) outputs 8 bit over its HDMI, the Atomos recorders will convert that into a 10 bit file. This obviously doesn't add the extra colour information at the source, so its not as good as true 10 bit, but it helps maintain the quality of the image in grading and post production. If anyone knows more information I'd love to hear it? Carl
+ProAV TV Well, it sure does sound like he's claiming that they are capturing 10-bit color 4K via the HDMI. "We're giving you all of the extra color information and obviously, increasing the color count, from say 16.7 million colors to over a billion colors, so.." Then he goes on about shooting in LOG and how they "get the real depth of color information". He most likely was just misinformed about the 4K HDMI's color depth. The 1080p signal is indeed 10-bit 4:2:2
+ProAV TV guys actually look into this and educate yourself, check out Sony Prime and have a listen to a few of their Sony ICE podcasts. I could shoot SD video in 576p 8 bit, transcode that to prores and the computer would think it's 10 bit, if the source is 8 bit it's not being "converted" to 10 bit, the camera is outputting 256 code values over HDMI, the recorder doesn't automatically turn that into 1024, it takes quite a bit of processing to even get 8 bit to respond like 10 bit let alone create phantom code values of colour data that wasn't captured at the time of encoding
+Anthony Brown This was over four months ago! Besides, the confusion was about whether the camera was outputting 4K via at 8-bit or 10-bit. In this video, the rep is clearly wrong. He is claiming that the camera is outputting 10-bit 4K via HDMI, hence his statement about the Assassin being able to "increase the color count from say 16.7 million colors to over a billion colors or so."
+Andrew Welch Andy i got a reply to one of my original comments from months ago today and had a brief look at the others, who cares how long ago it was? I backed your statement up. "Pro" AV should know what they're talking about before posting incorrect information is all
You do not get 4K 10 bit 422 over the HDMI, it is still 8 bit so you do not gain any extra bit depth, you gain more colour resolution via 422 sampling but this is not more colour information just better sub sampling. It's 8 bit inside a 10 bit codec wrapper. The sensor is obviously not a "10 bit 422" sensor, this camera has a raw mode on the horizon and this will be 12 bit 444. Come on guys.
+Anthony Brown hi can you point me to the source/link where it says that? that lack of information is the only thing thats preventing me from buying this camera
+Myron Snow I can't point you a singular website but you could start with Sony's website and spec sheet for the FS5 camera, second to that you could look at the technical spec of HDMI to see if it can carry 10 bit (look up the white paper) thirdly look into check sub sampling and understand what 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 means and lastly look into the chain between sensor to DSP to understand why a sensor isn't locked to 10 bit 4:2:2. Sony Prime is a good resource for accredited information and peer reviewed text books are the next best thing (search David Mullen). Essentially my comment isn't new information, it's as old as the first digital video camera
+Myron Snow yes, the output will be FS-Raw which is 12 bit 444 (4096 shades of colour and no chroma/colour sub sampling) the original Shogun is an option for 4K prores at upto 30p and for the 120p cache recording over SDI as the signal is raw data that the shogun is deciding into raw, Shogun Inferno can handle up to 60p and both are due to get DNG raw support. Odyssey will require a licence to be bought
Hey dude thx for the video, Can i get video recorded from atomos 120/24p I mean a final video 24p directly slow... because I tried hard but átomos keeps the final file 120p on Normal speed
Has there been an update yet where you can display all the data from the LCD to the Atomos? I am using the Shogun Inferno, with the FS5II on a Movi Pro and don't want to use the LCD monitor if possible
So this meaning I wasn't using the actual Atomos for recording but just for display of the image? As I did manage to get the menu's to show on the Atomos yesterday, does this mean I am using it wrong? If you have a visual solution for my problem I would be very grateful as I can't find any tutorials online. As mentioned I am using the Movi Pro, so I need to mount the LCD monitor also? The cable doesn't seem long enough to attach a monitor, do I need to add the top bar to the FS5II as normal with the monitor to be able to use it?
Ok chaps...so where are with RAW recording, is it only Odyssey or do ATMOS have a raw recorder coming. Is there an ATMOS recorder than can do 4K UHD viaHDMI and Full 4K raw 12 bit via the SDI/3G connector? and can it record or transcode to prores and ....do a full raw recording when required ?
Atomos recorders aren't able to record the footage as raw currently i'm afraid. They have been talking about adding CinemaDNG support for ages but haven't yet unfortunately. They can accept a raw signal, but will record that signal as either Prores or DNXHD. The only way to actually record the raw coming from the FS5 is to use an Odyssey (with a paid FS Raw upgrade) or the Sony AXS-R5 recorder. Carl
this is pretty nice especially that fact I can use this as a secondary screen. but the no 4k raw is a bit of a bummer. right now I'm stuck with a sony axs r5 external recorder and it's a bit of a pain. those axsm memory cards are so damn expensive. is there a solution to both these devices?
The odyssey 7q can record the 4K raw as actual raw (with a paid upgrade) And Atomos are working on bringing Cinema DNG raw to the shogun recorders Those are the only options for now unfortunately. Carl
So from what I gather here Atomos: The Shogun will capture the 4K signal from the sensor in 10-bit 4:2:2? My understanding is that the FS5 will only output 8-bit 4:2:2 in 4k from the HDMI. Please confirm.
+Martin “SWIF” Racicot Hi Martin. You are correct, the FS5 does output 8 bit. The Atomos recorders however will record that 8 bit as 10bit, not adding any more colour depth but making it easier to work with in post, particularly when grading. Carl
+Ken Azure When people say "getting raw information from the sensor" it is over simplifying it a bit. Even true raw recording isn't taking every piece of information from the sensor. External recorders can only record what the HDMI or HDSDI signal is sending them. The cameras do send the information to the hdmi before they compress and record it though which is what they are referring to. Does that help at all? I only have a fairly basic understanding of it myself really, as it all gets pretty technical. Carl
How strange. If you bought it from us then give the office a call on 01442 292929. If you bought it from elsewhere you'll have to get in touch with them. Personally I haven't tried the fs5 with a ninja 2, the only recorder i've used it with is the assassin like in this video and that works fine. Hope you figure it out. Carl
+ProAV TV Hi - I bought it from an Autralian mate of mine a couple of years ago and it's always worked fine. GH4 5D3 C100, just not on the FS5 for some odd reason. Latest firmware as of last night. A mate of mine is bringing round his Assassin later in the week to try that one.
In response to the questions raised about the HDMI output and my comments referencing that it is 10-bit 422, it is our (and Atomos') understanding that the output is 10-bit 422 in both HD and 4K. The difference is in the internal recording capabilities, with HD being 10-bit 4:2:2 and 4K being 8-bit 4:2:0. The sensor works in 10-bit when set to 4K and Sony had previously confirmed to Atomos this is not changed on output. However we are querying this again to get full confirmation, so I will post back soon to advise further.
There is a similar interview between Dan Chung of News Shooter and Jeromy Young, CEO of Atomos (available on the NewShooter site, posted on the 18th November) in which the HDMI output is discussed - around 7mins in. Work checking out that interview too.
On the subject of RAW, if and when Sony add RAW capabilities to the FS5, Sony output compressed RAW but recorders such as Atomos' Shogun will then decompress that before recording. At present Shogun support is to decompress RAW and encode as ProRes/DNx, but CinemaDNG support is in development. Although it's not confirmed at this stage the ambition is to record 12-bit RAW.
It is most likely that Sony will output RAW on the FS5 in a similar fashion to how it is handled on the FS700, using the 3G/HD-SDI output to provide the data stream. This would require a Shogun to be used rather than a Ninja Assassin due to the omission of SDI on the Assassin. It's important to note that no official details have been announced relating to RAW on the FS5 at this time.
+Richard Warburton Hi Richard. Thanks for joining the conversation.
Some sources seem to be saying the HDMI and the HD-SDI are both 10 bit. Some say that the HDSDI is 10 bit while the HDMI is 8 bit.
Theres definitely some confusion in the air! Any clarification you get from Sony or Atomos would be fantastic.
Thanks for all your help.
Carl
+Richard Warburton Hi! Any update on this from Sony? Thanks. :)
+Miguel Mejia Apologies for the belated update but after investigations last month with Sony and several conflicting summaries I can now confirm that when the FS5 is working at a 4K resolution the HDMI output is 8-bit 422 rather than 10-bit as Atomos had originally believed based on information given to them by Sony. We are therefore sorry for any confusion.
Although Atomos' Ninja Assassin/Shogun receives an 8-bit 4K signal it is still a 422 signal, meaning the external recorder can capture 422 with the extra sub sampling, improving upon the 420 internal 4K recording. Furthermore Atomos ProRes recording is always 10-bit, even if the signal is 8-bit and although no visual improvement is realised you do benefit from having a 10-bit file to work with in post, potentially giving you greater scope in post production depending on the type of post work involved. Avid DNxHR is 8-bit or 10-bit file capture, depending on the flavour used.
To confirm the HD output is 10-bit 422, only 4K output is limited to 8-bit over HDMI. As to what Sony will do with RAW is purely speculative at this time.
+Richard Warburton thanks for the update! It's still quite a formidable machine.
Hi, I am very new to all this so I listen and read and try to learn. I am not in a position to add anything very useful myself - yet! However, what I would like say is that finding a site raising the issues like this has been most welcome. It is never all light and wonder and seeing the foibles being raised (no o/p when recording UHD internally) and the resultant very interesting comments encourages me to believe I have found a useful resource and one where I may well place my order(s). Bob.
+Robert Hawtin Hi Robert
Really glad to hear you are finding our videos helpful.
We all think its very important to be critical of cameras, as no camera is ever perfect. If a camera manufacturer ever made a perfect camera they would quickly go out of business as they wouldn't be able to make anything better.
If theres anything we can ever help with please just let us know
Carl
If a camera company made a perfect camera, they would rent it out, not sell it.
Question: when in 4k mode, what’s the maximum output out of the HDMI slot? Is it 10 bit 422? As I know you can record Raw 12 bit from the SDI, but what is recorded from the HDMI?
how about 240fps at 1080p recording to the atomos?
i want to know the exact same thing
Bring those mic tracks into Mono. It's not that hard.
so easy ...
Sorry to jump here, but actually the colour sampling qualities in 4K (actually, QFHD) that you can get from FS5 are:1.) 4:2:0 8-bit internally, over XAVC-Long GOP codec (60 or 100 Mbps)2.) 4:2:2 10-bit via HDMIAnd, of course, as announced, in the future there will be an optional upgrade (I don't know when nor at which price) that will allow SDI interface to provide FS RAW signal (the same as we can get from FS700 and from FS7 + XDCA-FS7).What I am not sure about is whether that 8-bit-to-10-bit "upconversion" (it does not improve quality, of course) is done in the HDMI output itself or internally on Atomos equipment (sorry for my lack of knowledge).And sincere regards to my friends from both ProAV and Atomos; hope to see you again soon ;)PS: sorry, I cannot add spaces via "Enter" key through Explorer...
+Alvaro Ortiz Thanks for the response Alvaro! Great to have someone able to represent Sony join the conversation
Carl
+Alvaro Ortiz will it be able to output 4k RAW without an add on like the XDCA?
The HDMI does not output 10 bit video, it outputs 8 bit video, the recorder only has 10 bit Codec's to encode this 8 bit file, the two extra bits remain empty but the reduction in compression, the improvement in chroma sub sampling and the i frame encoding all go a small way to improving the image quality but 10 bit source video it certainly is not.
I say this as an FS5 owner
+Anthony Brown
Oh... I read my own comment yesterday and felt totally ashamed. As you say, HDMI is 8-bit. I do REALLY apologize for the mistake when writing.
+Alvaro Ortiz Not to worry Alvaro, thanks for clarifying.
So looks like the consensus is that the FS5 will record 8 bit internally AND output 8bit over HDMI. the Atomos recorders will record this as a 10bit file, but as the HDMI is only sending 8 bit its really only 8 bit.
With the upcoming paid RAW upgrade however the SDI will output 12bit RAW.
Does that sound correct to everyone?
Carl
I believe the rep is wrong. The uncompressed 4K signal over HDMI is 8-bit, not 10-bit.
+Andrew Welch Hi Andrew. It gets very complicated, and I certainly wouldn't claim to be an expert.
The way I understand it though is that when a camera (like the FS5) outputs 8 bit over its HDMI, the Atomos recorders will convert that into a 10 bit file. This obviously doesn't add the extra colour information at the source, so its not as good as true 10 bit, but it helps maintain the quality of the image in grading and post production.
If anyone knows more information I'd love to hear it?
Carl
+ProAV TV Well, it sure does sound like he's claiming that they are capturing 10-bit color 4K via the HDMI. "We're giving you all of the extra color information and obviously, increasing the color count, from say 16.7 million colors to over a billion colors, so.." Then he goes on about shooting in LOG and how they "get the real depth of color information".
He most likely was just misinformed about the 4K HDMI's color depth. The 1080p signal is indeed 10-bit 4:2:2
+ProAV TV guys actually look into this and educate yourself, check out Sony Prime and have a listen to a few of their Sony ICE podcasts. I could shoot SD video in 576p 8 bit, transcode that to prores and the computer would think it's 10 bit, if the source is 8 bit it's not being "converted" to 10 bit, the camera is outputting 256 code values over HDMI, the recorder doesn't automatically turn that into 1024, it takes quite a bit of processing to even get 8 bit to respond like 10 bit let alone create phantom code values of colour data that wasn't captured at the time of encoding
+Anthony Brown This was over four months ago! Besides, the confusion was about whether the camera was outputting 4K via at 8-bit or 10-bit. In this video, the rep is clearly wrong. He is claiming that the camera is outputting 10-bit 4K via HDMI, hence his statement about the Assassin being able to "increase the color count from say 16.7 million colors to over a billion colors or so."
+Andrew Welch Andy i got a reply to one of my original comments from months ago today and had a brief look at the others, who cares how long ago it was? I backed your statement up. "Pro" AV should know what they're talking about before posting incorrect information is all
You do not get 4K 10 bit 422 over the HDMI, it is still 8 bit so you do not gain any extra bit depth, you gain more colour resolution via 422 sampling but this is not more colour information just better sub sampling. It's 8 bit inside a 10 bit codec wrapper.
The sensor is obviously not a "10 bit 422" sensor, this camera has a raw mode on the horizon and this will be 12 bit 444. Come on guys.
+Anthony Brown hi can you point me to the source/link where it says that? that lack of information is the only thing thats preventing me from buying this camera
+Myron Snow I can't point you a singular website but you could start with Sony's website and spec sheet for the FS5 camera, second to that you could look at the technical spec of HDMI to see if it can carry 10 bit (look up the white paper) thirdly look into check sub sampling and understand what 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 means and lastly look into the chain between sensor to DSP to understand why a sensor isn't locked to 10 bit 4:2:2. Sony Prime is a good resource for accredited information and peer reviewed text books are the next best thing (search David Mullen). Essentially my comment isn't new information, it's as old as the first digital video camera
thanks for the reply. Just to confirm, with this raw update coming up this may, with the odyssey 7q the fs5 will output 12 bit?
+Myron Snow yes, the output will be FS-Raw which is 12 bit 444 (4096 shades of colour and no chroma/colour sub sampling) the original Shogun is an option for 4K prores at upto 30p and for the 120p cache recording over SDI as the signal is raw data that the shogun is deciding into raw, Shogun Inferno can handle up to 60p and both are due to get DNG raw support. Odyssey will require a licence to be bought
Hey dude thx for the video,
Can i get video recorded from atomos 120/24p I mean a final video 24p directly slow...
because I tried hard but átomos keeps the final file 120p on Normal speed
Good afternoon. Tell me does the camera SonyFS5 image stabilizer?
Has there been an update yet where you can display all the data from the LCD to the Atomos? I am using the Shogun Inferno, with the FS5II on a Movi Pro and don't want to use the LCD monitor if possible
No, the only way to do that would be to output the displays which would mean they were baked into the recording on the shogun.
Carl
So this meaning I wasn't using the actual Atomos for recording but just for display of the image? As I did manage to get the menu's to show on the Atomos yesterday, does this mean I am using it wrong? If you have a visual solution for my problem I would be very grateful as I can't find any tutorials online. As mentioned I am using the Movi Pro, so I need to mount the LCD monitor also? The cable doesn't seem long enough to attach a monitor, do I need to add the top bar to the FS5II as normal with the monitor to be able to use it?
Ok chaps...so where are with RAW recording, is it only Odyssey or do ATMOS have a raw recorder coming. Is there an ATMOS recorder than can do 4K UHD viaHDMI and Full 4K raw 12 bit via the SDI/3G connector? and can it record or transcode to prores and ....do a full raw recording when required ?
Atomos recorders aren't able to record the footage as raw currently i'm afraid. They have been talking about adding CinemaDNG support for ages but haven't yet unfortunately. They can accept a raw signal, but will record that signal as either Prores or DNXHD.
The only way to actually record the raw coming from the FS5 is to use an Odyssey (with a paid FS Raw upgrade) or the Sony AXS-R5 recorder.
Carl
Thanks for that.
this is pretty nice especially that fact I can use this as a secondary screen. but the no 4k raw is a bit of a bummer. right now I'm stuck with a sony axs r5 external recorder and it's a bit of a pain. those axsm memory cards are so damn expensive. is there a solution to both these devices?
The odyssey 7q can record the 4K raw as actual raw (with a paid upgrade)
And Atomos are working on bringing Cinema DNG raw to the shogun recorders
Those are the only options for now unfortunately.
Carl
ProAV TV thanks. I'm looking 7q. Its pretty expensive compared to the Shogun. I hope atomos brings raw support soon.
I enjoyed this.
Thanks guys !
So from what I gather here Atomos: The Shogun will capture the 4K signal from the sensor in 10-bit 4:2:2? My understanding is that the FS5 will only output 8-bit 4:2:2 in 4k from the HDMI. Please confirm.
+Martin “SWIF” Racicot Hi Martin. You are correct, the FS5 does output 8 bit. The Atomos recorders however will record that 8 bit as 10bit, not adding any more colour depth but making it easier to work with in post, particularly when grading.
Carl
+Ken Azure When people say "getting raw information from the sensor" it is over simplifying it a bit. Even true raw recording isn't taking every piece of information from the sensor. External recorders can only record what the HDMI or HDSDI signal is sending them. The cameras do send the information to the hdmi before they compress and record it though which is what they are referring to.
Does that help at all? I only have a fairly basic understanding of it myself really, as it all gets pretty technical.
Carl
+Ken Azure Sony say the FS5 records internally at 8 bit 4.2.0 in 4K mode and 10 bit 4.2.2 in HD.
It outputs 4k in 8 bit 4.2.2 via HDMI
Carl
I can't seem to get a signal into the Ninja 2 from the FS5. It works fine with my C100. any help appreciated.
+druidavey Is the fs5 in 4K or 1080p mode?
Carl
+ProAV TV hi. I've tried both. all sorts of settings. I know the humidity out of the fs5 is fine because I've been running a 7 inch monitor from it.
How strange. If you bought it from us then give the office a call on 01442 292929.
If you bought it from elsewhere you'll have to get in touch with them.
Personally I haven't tried the fs5 with a ninja 2, the only recorder i've used it with is the assassin like in this video and that works fine.
Hope you figure it out.
Carl
+ProAV TV Hi - I bought it from an Autralian mate of mine a couple of years ago and it's always worked fine. GH4 5D3 C100, just not on the FS5 for some odd reason. Latest firmware as of last night. A mate of mine is bringing round his Assassin later in the week to try that one.
good info !! Thanks
Interesting initial test results! Sony PXW-FS5 vs. A6300 - Sensor resolution and noise:
ua-cam.com/video/xqvN-EV3l9s/v-deo.html