Yeah, he hated himself for decades and now wants to lecture us. lol. Please! He's like those people who look in the mirror and repeat positive affirmations in the morning until they believe their mantra. They need to convince themselves because they do not actually believe their own mantra. Unlike people like him, I love myself - even growing up. I had positive influences when I was a child, who taught me I am worthy and deserving. Maybe he did not have the same black positive influences or confident self-loving parents. Maybe he relied on social media and thought that white people were superior to him. _Yikes. That's sad._ He is late to self-love and now thinks he knows more than the rest of us who have loved ourselves for far longer than he can ever dream?!! lol. At least I can say I never hated my skin or heritage. He *cannot.* And that must suck. Good luck to him in making up for those lost decades.
Be proud of your Blackness 🤎. It is an asset not a liability. If we define ourselves for ourselves and not through the dehuminizing lens of white supremacist delusion, we'd be onto something. How fitting that "celebrate the power of us" and "Live your freedom" closed this clip 👏🏾.
Degrasse is not denying blackness but calling out a society that would label and diminish and isolate him. I was labeled “the black environmentalist”. I did not hate myself or not know that I was black. Sometimes the conversations we have are stupid😊
Absolutely. It's apparent that these folks have never heard him speak about the brilliance of Africa and people of African origin. I would love to hear him address them regarding their misguided, shallow opinions. These folks lack wisdom.
Update your "brain computers"😢 Humanity is not "Crayon Colors"...Have you met the Silver people...Purple people ...what about the Turquoise people/ Ethnicity or Race...You were labeled "black" by people whom Classified Themselves as "White"...because we were Negroes...and to justify Religion, Racism /White Supremacy ...by the way can you tell which people are the "Brown" race...Black is an adjective that describes a (noun)😂 a Rottweiler is a "species" of Canine....Do we refer to them as the BLACK dogs😒...Your "Ethnicity" is AMERICAN...your Ancestors built this country...Responsible for why all Immigrants can come to America for the American Dream and decide to be black or POC...We ARE the American Descendants of Slavery...ADOS...
Being black isn't an "ethnicity". Just like being white,Asian,Middle Eastern,or indigenous isn't an ethnicity. Ethnicity is determined by culture and customs, not skin tone. Remember, not every person or country in Africa shares the same culture and customs. The same is also true of Europeans,Asians,and other "racial" groups.
I think he was saying that THEY think it's a ghetto version something. I think he was speaking to the white mind. black this, black that is ghetto to them. Hopefully it wasn't internalized by him but I think he was referring to the optics of the label.
I saw that interview from the clip that was played about Mr. Tyson. This conversation takes out of context what he is speaking about. I know a lot of you have to plant a black flag and proclaim your blackness, especially if you grew up around predominantly white people. But because you’re black doesn’t mean you can ONLY speak on “black” things. Especially if you’re a well learned, well traveled person. We saw that back in the day when people spoke on a subject then had the one token black person speak for all black people. We’re more than that. We have to move away from that.
Putting Black as a qualifier in front of something assumes that that title means “white”, no? Black nerd means nerds are white. Black scientists means scientists are white? I think that’s the point he and Karen are making.
Snap snap! Full on agree. I will continue to move in spaces as I need to, but will never ignore my blackness and will stay grounded in who I am! I'm also not married to this country either as it doesn't deserve my full loyalty!
Love this conversation. I’m a black social worker and in constantly try to ensure black and brown perspectives are included when yet another policy is rolled out. I try my try to include historical perspectives when possible and incorporate critical thinking! Sometimes it’s hard, but it’s worth it when I hear “I never thought of it that way before.” ❤ to Karen and family 🙏🏾
Sounds like a personal issue. i'ma be Black all day. Move how y'all want though. The moment you show up, people see you as Black even if you don't say it, people will STILL treat you how they will regardless. Toni Morrison already set me straight.
Agreed. There is nothing wrong with being black. And saying you identify as black doesn't stop anyone from thinking anything nor does it encourage people to think less of you. If they do that's on them.
Say.That.SIS!!! This Jersey Girl was culture shocked when I moved to Paris, TN & found out the school title was still segregated. Of course they had a “good” (read bullshit) reason. In 2002, I was crowned Miss BLACK HCHS and didn’t know how I was supposed to feel about it! I think if I were to put more emphasis on the Black (“Say it loud!”) they would have gotten rid of it fast as hell!!! 😂 -Shoutout to my fellow Miss HCHS, AnnClaire (the white one) who hollered at me everyday in the hall “HEY MISS HCHS!” 😂
Good talk. What I liked most is that everyone wasn’t a bobblehead - sharing the same opinion. There was a clash of ideas with respectful interaction and active push back.
I deeply appreciate and embrace the essence of my black identity, and it brings me immense joy. It is a significant part of who I am, and I hold it in such high regard that when I proudly proclaim it, it serves as a symbol of honor. If you are someone seeking validation from the white community in order to be socially accepted, then perhaps you are not fully recognizing and appreciating the beauty that is apparent. Shame on Neil DeGrasse Tyson for his Self shame and usage of the word "ghetto" reminded me of how some individuals misinterpret and misrepresent the term "woke." and all I heard was self loathing. In situations where others may perceive shame, I personally discover a tremendous source of empowerment and strength.
My mother always told me all the way to the way I was on my own DO NOT EVER kiss anyone’s ass just to get along with them and that woman was born in 1909. In the south taking no prisoners whatsoever 😂😂
Karen, your conversation about the abusive relationship with America comes to mind when I hear this conversation. I want to be treated equally. And I shouldn’t have to apologize for being black when I know this qualifies how you hear me. I shouldn’t let you poke me and I consider forgiveness. The two opinions will probably need to exist for the short term but I know how the world sees me first in this time space reality 🤷🏽♂️
They burned the negative stereotype of blackness into us & US culture. If we wear or embrace the negative stereotypes they laugh, remain comfortable, & “support” it. They desire we be visible w/ blkness when it’s negative/suits them & invisible bc of blkness (marginalization) at the same time. The anger comes when blkness is exuded in a positive manner w/ a sense of pride or blkness boldly demands rights in a country that fights tooth & nail to center ytness!!!
The default in the world is the concept of whiteness. So they automatically assume white. We know how that came about so silencing your blackness makes you complicit with the system of whiteness.
Whats wrong is black doesn't mean anything. Are you ADOS, Jamaican, Kenyan, Haitian? Those labels tell people something about you. Black suggests what exactly? Ditch all colors. Lineages matter... debts matter, and laws matter
I relate to where Kevin is coming from, I really do, but I think he's got Neil's words completely mis-interpreted. There is a world of difference between being labeled a "Black Scientist" vs. being a scientist who is Black.
We can't drop the title of black until black becomes the norm. It's like saying cell instead of cellular mobile device. You don't have to say all that for us to know what you're talking about. We just know. When everyone understands the beautiful nuances of being black is, then we can stop saying black.
Take out your business card. If it doesn’t read “Black Accountant” or “Black (insert job title here” then your actions side with Neil’s argument and it doesn’t mean you don’t love the black community
We need to take a leaf from Jamaica, of all of us in the archipelago of the Caribbean, they are true to themself, they do not conform to anyone's culture, they retained speech partners and culture where ever they go. No apology!
Beautiful discourse Professor Karen Hunter. We must be centered in OURstory’s excellence and use it as a resource NOT as an abstract reference. We are our own Cultural Liberators and it is our overarching responsibility and duty to uplift our enduring beauty, tenacity, integrity, dignity, value, and continuity. We must stop trying to center ourselves within whiteness. No more of the expected - “I’m just like you talk; or - don’t mention how I look talk; or - I don’t want to be different talk; or - please approve and accept my work as comparable to yours talk. Stand tall and erect with your chest out and your head held high and proudly proclaim in the bold spirit of our courageous collective Ancestors such as Paul Robeson, Malcolm X, Ida B. Wells, etc., ==> “YES, - I ABSOLUTELY AM AN AFRICAN ________”. And then insert in the blank your particular training, such as engineer, scientist, professor, writer, doctor, etc.
I think we need to say it because we have children who hate who they are because of the color of their skin. As Dr. King said, and I paraphrase, the white man made the color of our skin a threat - WE DIDN'T.
I wholeheartedly agree with Kevin. And the “Black scientist” label is heavy for Dr. Tyson because he has given it weight and a negative connotation. It’s light as a feather for me, so I don’t mind wearing it around my neck like a scarf.
I'd love to hear the full clip because it does seem like he's misspoken, especially considering who his father was. However, the key thing that seems to be missed by everyone I've seen talk about this is that he framed it as **what THEY see in their mind**. That is, it SEEMED like he could be speaking to the fact that internalized racism is prevalent and, therefore, the "Blackness" can inadvertently frame what that person sees in front of them. We should DEFINITELY be unapologetically Black but it also reminds me of how everyone is an actor now and they've generally stopped calling people *actresses*. The same people exist but now there's a common term to help standardize the practice, no matter how you identify.
I understand and agree with Neil's point. He's NOT disowning or trying to downplay his blackness. He's just saying see him and respect him as a scientist when he is working or discussing science the same way that people see and refer to white scientists as just being scientists.
@@xman9190 no he's not. Hell, a few months ago he was on the Joe Rogan Podcast promoting his latest book and he was talking about how the smartest people in the entire world are from Africa (which is from a chapter in his book that deals with racism and how dumb it is). He also pointed out how stupid it was for racist white people to compare black people to monkeys and apes when it's white people who build treehouses to hangout in. He also pointed out how white people are susceptible to lice due to their hair and that black people don't have lice. That to me, is not someone who is trying to downplay his blackness.
@@xman9190 he said that he didn't want to be called or referred to as a "black scientist", and I agree with him. We don't see famous white or Asian scientists being referred to as "white scientist" and "Asian scientist".
@@wraithx7 You keep dancing around the fact that he said that calling him black ghetto-fies the conversation. He didn't say what you just said. I do see other people (professionals) referred to by their ethnicity.
Mr. Degrasse and Mr. Elba are great at what they do. There were others before you to allow you in this space. This space will be move on without you. Being black is a badge of honor.
I am close to 79 years, there was no “Black “ history growing up. BUT once I discovered books with it, wow, everything about me changed. I am a book junky. The confidence, worldview and ability to articulate the “ who” I am in any situation, expanded exponentially. I have come to a point where I realize the mess this group of entities have created, understanding their mediocrity in most all they do and create, I am detached. My community is my primary focus. They are going to self destruct. Resurrecting and preserving our native culture is primary for our youth.
As his discourse further indicated, Neil was using "ghetto" by its strict definition (as scientists tend to do) meaning: "Fencing off" and "separating." Identifying himself or being identified as a "black scientist," would mean that he's limited to science as it applies to blacks. An auto mechanic might feel the same way, that he doesn't want to be fenced off as a "black auto mechanic." And none of that means he's cutting himself off socially from the blackness of his history and heart. He's not saying "don't call me black," he's saying don't define his profession practice as "black." Asking artists for their opinion of a scientist's viewpoint is not particularly valid; artists may very well _intend_ to limit themselves in that manner because art is so intensely personal and born out of their personal identities.
Hello Karen Hunter! You consistently ask hard and important questions..... THANK YOU for that! I have not figured out how best to be able to listen to the WHOLE of your programming - such as THIS particular conversation centered around Neil DeGrasse and his remarks....... can you or your team advise me? THANKS!
MY views on it are that I am a Black Man, I am a Drum Circle Facilitator. And it's quite clear that I'm a Black Drum Circle Facilitator. I do NOT run from it and in fact, in my events, I am CLEAR as HELL of my connection to my Mississippi roots and BoTH my African ancestry AND my Indigenous ancestry.....and I guide other folks (Black, White, Brown) in participating in the celebration of that culture....AND I let them know that ALL of us are part of ALL of these cultures. I love, love, LOVE the notion of Black Joy, Black Girl/Boy Joy, and other "Black" labeled groups and activities. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that my daughter is an author of "Afro-Futurism". THAT SAID,I do NOT label myself in the world "as a Black Drum Circle Facilitator"..
This topic reminds me of the movie “Whatever Happened To Baby Jane” it stars Bette Davis and Joan Crawford. There’s a scene where Joan says to Bette. She says “ If I wasn’t in this wheelchair, etc etc “. Bette’s response was “ But you are Blanche, you are”. Dude is Black and there’s no escaping it. Be happy to be both Black and a scientist. The two can coexist.
I think most people who listened did not hear NDT. I think he was instructing them to not put their limitations on him because when they say Black Their concept of Black is limited. I don't think he was saying anything indicating self hate or disrespect to our elders and ancestors. He was showing them their limited thinking.
When they do that they want you to stay in your lane and place you in your respective black groups because collectively they don't see you nor acknowledge you.
Wonderful conversations and dialog on this channel!😊 We are melinated beings, living to BE. What name someone chooses to call me, is none of my business. My business is what my actions are and what I choose to answer to.
This just proves white supremacy is still working very well on us as a people this should not even be a question of course I am a proud black man in this space that I am proud in if y look at me any other way that’s your problem not mine
When centering a white supremacists perspective, I understand Neil's standpoint. THE ISSUE IS THAT WE STILL STRUGGLE WITH CENTERING WHITENESS(Shout out to sistah Bell). Ultimately, I'm with Kevin!!! I'd also say that to an extent, I still struggle with the fact that I learned to love black by way of White racial creation, resilience to it, and oppression versus African black creation, brilliance, and beauty. It's on me to do this work and I'm committed especially being an educator!! I'm also with Karen when she pushes the understanding of what it means to be HUMAN because we are of the beginning of human creation in all its forms, thus when this modern colonial/imperial shiz falls, as it shall, it'll be us in our progressive form that teaches what to do in order to rebuild a new world order!!! We gotta do this together knowing that if one is not well we are all unwell.
My problem with NDT is that he has no intellectual curiosity, only in proven facts. He seems to be very eurocentric in thought. That seems like a terrible way to view the universe.
People tend to forget. That announcing you’re a black this or a black that is a term of endearment and respect from the black community. A lot of positions and rights that black people can now achieve were at one time unachievable. A lot of people died to pave the way for those achievements. Equity for all was never a part of the black community. I can see you as a successful person and know that and be happy that you are a successful black person. Knowing my family history will always make me think this way.
The same discourse was leveled at bryant Gumbel almost forty years ago... I do not think that As a broad culture We are Productively analyzing what these gentlemen are saying.. It's not about disavowing one's race, It's about disallowing qualifiers offered by OTHERS...
I’ve always described myself as a black broker! Being black is my life’s experience, my context, my perspective and my great pleasure! I walk black, talk black, smile and laugh black and when I die I WILL DIE A BLACK! 😂
Respect to all those who lead with that label, I guess it is necessary for those Americans who are indigenous to the Americas or descendants of those forcefully brought over from Africa and have lost touch with the motherland to identify by that label and feel incomplete without it. But for me I don’t need that label, and I don’t need anybody to project that upon me just because I come from Africa and have a darker hue. It is quite lame to make the statement about how the world “sees” me what world, I create and define my world of reality and don’t need anybody to pin a label upon me. After making North America my home, what I don’t get is this hypnotic like suggestions to say because I am an African then I am that label, sorry that is what I disagree with, please leave that in the Americas, for I guess you need that from a political perspective. In addition, there are no whites but simply people that have a lighter shade of skin tone and likely descendants of people from Europe. When you learn to disengage from this man made systemic ideologies/structures you begin to become aware of the True Power you wield until then you are nothing more than a pun in this shadow world of duality.
An I can’t stand being called African American Am black born raised and will be black until the heart stops beating !! Yes we’re Africans descendants from our enslaved ancestors but BLACK as we all know isn’t just about skin color it’s deep it’s nuanced an in 61 years of living there hasn’t been one second of of it that are filled with any kinds regrets or wanting change over because it seemed an easier path in life BLACK PEOPLE hold your collective heads up and be who you are unapologetically and never ever try to explain us to anyone 1 because we don’t owe them an explanation 2 explaining it like we’re our existence HELL 2 THA NO DON’T EVER DO IT 🤘🏿🤘🏿✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿
It’s crazy annoying when he says that. It’s hypocritical. He constantly trades on being the rare Black astronomer/ astrophysicist whether he acknowledges it or not.There are easily 10,000 plus people in the profession hardly any of them are Black. Of course they’re going to put a mic in his exotic face. How many albino tiger pictures we do we see ? Tons. They get disproportionate attention. Nobody cares about the default tiger with those old stankin’ ass orange and black stripes. The white tiger would look just stupid as Dr. Tyson talking about, “I’m a tiger not a white tiger”
The freaking nuance and the relatability in this convo are so appreciated and necessary ❤! Loved Kevin's comments about not condemning people. That really is so important, and it's something I need to work on 😅. Thank you, Karen, for another great video!
I personally don’t want to look like, be or act like any other human tribe but my own. My heritage descendant from Africa and through all the confusion and game played on society I have won, because I love me.🌸 Thank You Holy Spirit for the gift of discernment and being able to avoid the pitfalls of the CON. I Love Who I Am.💜
part of the challenge is the industry in which anyone operates + Bro Neil is a man of a certain age; respectability politics is a real deal. black members of the scientific community is coming into its agency. it takes time with a new generation.
Peace sis. I wish I could speak to that. I was teaching science at a charter school a few years ago and my students wanted me to be anything but black. Sorry. I’m Blackety black. Unapologetically. *But NO PORK on my fork, lol.
You would have to watch the full interview of what Neil degrass Tyson was saying to get full context. I believe what he was saying is when dealing with objective facts of the universe your assigned social constructed, identity is not as important as ultimate reality. Once you assign a social description to a person who is making objective points, people may view the person and what their saying through a stereotypical lens point of view and based on those stereotypes people will biasly filter information not based on objective reality but subjective perception So in essence your not a Black astrophysicists you're an astrophysicist who happens to be Black Your Black identity may be important to others who share that same social construct but it has nothing to do with your ability Your Blackness is not as important to reality as your knowledge on a given subject A mathematician who happens to be Black is not doing Black mathematics A surgeon who happens to be Black is not doing Black surgery A doctor who happens to be Black is not doing Black medicine. This is what science is, it's either true or it's not and the person who finds that truth is not doing so based on any one particular aspect of their biological make up and definitely not because of a concept like race which is a creation of the imagination. Basically race is science fiction forced to be accepted as reality It would be like saying Stephen Hawkins was practicing quadriplegic science when in reality he was a scientist who just happened to have been quadriplegic Your perceived race is important to others but has little to do with your mental faculty. What Tyson was saying is don't you (white people) label me a Black scientist because white supremacy has a mind virus of lessening anything done by non white people by adding race to the conversation. No one says white scientist because white people just get to be scientists, where as everyone else not white has an asterisk next their name
Exactly. Black people of Dr Neil deGrasse Tyson's caliber should understand that if he weren't referred to as a BLACK Astrophysicist, Black children would not know he is until they see him. All children are inspired by people who belong to their group. This country is trying to return to the days when they displayed White men or women's images any time they referred to admirable accomplishments, innovations of Black people.
I luv being black and will always display my blackness. Those who have a problem with it, eff ‘em
Define why you are black
Neil is correct
@@kbtokyo
No he isn't.
❤
What is displaying your blackness?
Yes, Kevin! I enjoy hearing him speak. I ain’t apologizing for being Black and loving my Black people.
Beefing Less Matters
As someone who fortunately never "hated " being Black, the "label" is neither necessary ( 'cause it's obvious), NOR problematic. It just is ❤️🖤💚
Yeah, he hated himself for decades and now wants to lecture us. lol. Please! He's like those people who look in the mirror and repeat positive affirmations in the morning until they believe their mantra. They need to convince themselves because they do not actually believe their own mantra.
Unlike people like him, I love myself - even growing up. I had positive influences when I was a child, who taught me I am worthy and deserving. Maybe he did not have the same black positive influences or confident self-loving parents. Maybe he relied on social media and thought that white people were superior to him. _Yikes. That's sad._ He is late to self-love and now thinks he knows more than the rest of us who have loved ourselves for far longer than he can ever dream?!! lol. At least I can say I never hated my skin or heritage. He *cannot.* And that must suck. Good luck to him in making up for those lost decades.
People let labels penetrate their life… that’s the brainwashing phenomena
Be proud of your Blackness 🤎. It is an asset not a liability. If we define ourselves for ourselves and not through the dehuminizing lens of white supremacist delusion, we'd be onto something. How fitting that "celebrate the power of us" and "Live your freedom" closed this clip 👏🏾.
Degrasse is not denying blackness but calling out a society that would label and diminish and isolate him. I was labeled “the black environmentalist”. I did not hate myself or not know that I was black. Sometimes the conversations we have are stupid😊
Absolutely. It's apparent that these folks have never heard him speak about the brilliance of Africa and people of African origin. I would love to hear him address them regarding their misguided, shallow opinions. These folks lack wisdom.
Absolute powerful conversation. No other ethnicity disowns its identity.
Update your "brain computers"😢 Humanity is not "Crayon Colors"...Have you met the Silver people...Purple people ...what about the Turquoise people/ Ethnicity or Race...You were labeled "black" by people whom Classified Themselves as "White"...because we were Negroes...and to justify Religion, Racism /White Supremacy ...by the way can you tell which people are the "Brown" race...Black is an adjective that describes a (noun)😂 a Rottweiler is a "species" of Canine....Do we refer to them as the BLACK dogs😒...Your "Ethnicity" is AMERICAN...your Ancestors built this country...Responsible for why all Immigrants can come to America for the American Dream and decide to be black or POC...We ARE the American Descendants of Slavery...ADOS...
Yes they do cause white people don't say they a white scientist so you dumb
Being black isn't an "ethnicity". Just like being white,Asian,Middle Eastern,or indigenous isn't an ethnicity. Ethnicity is determined by culture and customs, not skin tone. Remember, not every person or country in Africa shares the same culture and customs. The same is also true of Europeans,Asians,and other "racial" groups.
Exactly!!
when Neil said bringing up "black" now "ghetto-fies" it....THAT was telling. Why does "Black" automatically mean "ghetto" in his subconscious???
That let's us know who the audience was. And he was saying not to look at him as "ghetto ".
Sounds like a bit of self-hating. to me.
I know right, ghetto is a mi d set, not a race, nor ethic group.
I think he was saying that THEY think it's a ghetto version something. I think he was speaking to the white mind. black this, black that is ghetto to them. Hopefully it wasn't internalized by him but I think he was referring to the optics of the label.
I saw that interview from the clip that was played about Mr. Tyson. This conversation takes out of context what he is speaking about. I know a lot of you have to plant a black flag and proclaim your blackness, especially if you grew up around predominantly white people. But because you’re black doesn’t mean you can ONLY speak on “black” things. Especially if you’re a well learned, well traveled person. We saw that back in the day when people spoke on a subject then had the one token black person speak for all black people. We’re more than that. We have to move away from that.
Putting Black as a qualifier in front of something assumes that that title means “white”, no? Black nerd means nerds are white. Black scientists means scientists are white? I think that’s the point he and Karen are making.
I used to love Greek mythology and then it blew my mind when I found out those stories were taken sirectly from African stories.
Snap snap! Full on agree. I will continue to move in spaces as I need to, but will never ignore my blackness and will stay grounded in who I am! I'm also not married to this country either as it doesn't deserve my full loyalty!
🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
✊🏾
Love this conversation. I’m a black social worker and in constantly try to ensure black and brown perspectives are included when yet another policy is rolled out. I try my try to include historical perspectives when possible and incorporate critical thinking! Sometimes it’s hard, but it’s worth it when I hear “I never thought of it that way before.” ❤ to Karen and family 🙏🏾
Just returned from La Habana Cuba....my favorite part was seeing people who look like me...🤎🫶🏿🖤
"...all of the stuff "they give" is temporary..." A WORD!!!
“They” also “gave us” the label “black”.
Sounds like a personal issue. i'ma be Black all day. Move how y'all want though. The moment you show up, people see you as Black even if you don't say it, people will STILL treat you how they will regardless. Toni Morrison already set me straight.
Adding Black to every identity I possess is a positive. It’s not the asterisk, it’s the exclamation.
Agreed. There is nothing wrong with being black. And saying you identify as black doesn't stop anyone from thinking anything nor does it encourage people to think less of you. If they do that's on them.
Luv it!
Say.That.SIS!!! This Jersey Girl was culture shocked when I moved to Paris, TN & found out the school title was still segregated. Of course they had a “good” (read bullshit) reason. In 2002, I was crowned Miss BLACK HCHS and didn’t know how I was supposed to feel about it! I think if I were to put more emphasis on the Black (“Say it loud!”) they would have gotten rid of it fast as hell!!! 😂 -Shoutout to my fellow Miss HCHS, AnnClaire (the white one) who hollered at me everyday in the hall “HEY MISS HCHS!” 😂
Professor Hunter, thanks for sharing this conversation. Information we can use, forward ever, backward never, kudos.
When God created me, He knew exactly what He was doing. I don’t owe anyone an apology for being who God has created me to be. I know who I am! ❤❤❤
Good talk. What I liked most is that everyone wasn’t a bobblehead - sharing the same opinion. There was a clash of ideas with respectful interaction and active push back.
That's what respect in community looks like. We don't have to agree, but we must show respect.
Thanks for the discussion ! So needed.
Say it loud ! I am Black and proud!
I deeply appreciate and embrace the essence of my black identity, and it brings me immense joy. It is a significant part of who I am, and I hold it in such high regard that when I proudly proclaim it, it serves as a symbol of honor. If you are someone seeking validation from the white community in order to be socially accepted, then perhaps you are not fully recognizing and appreciating the beauty that is apparent.
Shame on Neil DeGrasse Tyson for his Self shame and usage of the word "ghetto" reminded me of how some individuals misinterpret and misrepresent the term "woke." and all I heard was self loathing. In situations where others may perceive shame, I personally discover a tremendous source of empowerment and strength.
Once we EMBRACE our blackness, it's over!
over!
My black is beautiful, empowering, and again, did I say....beautiful!!!!!
My mother always told me all the way to the way I was on my own DO NOT EVER kiss anyone’s ass just to get along with them and that woman was born in 1909. In the south taking no prisoners whatsoever 😂😂
Neil Degrass Tyson using the word “ghettoize” in a conversation about be Black sounds like he harbors some anti Blackness himself. Very disappointing.
Excellent takes...for the thinking...
Karen, your conversation about the abusive relationship with America comes to mind when I hear this conversation. I want to be treated equally. And I shouldn’t have to apologize for being black when I know this qualifies how you hear me. I shouldn’t let you poke me and I consider forgiveness. The two opinions will probably need to exist for the short term but I know how the world sees me first in this time space reality 🤷🏽♂️
Thank you Kevin SOOOO MUCH!!!!!!
I asked the question a few years ago, when will Barack Obama cease being call the first black president, and start to be known as a great president?
It’s debatable who he was a great President to. Every other group benefited under him except ADOS.
I love this piece …our blackness matters💪🏾❤️💪🏾
They burned the negative stereotype of blackness into us & US culture. If we wear or embrace the negative stereotypes they laugh, remain comfortable, & “support” it. They desire we be visible w/ blkness when it’s negative/suits them & invisible bc of blkness (marginalization) at the same time. The anger comes when blkness is exuded in a positive manner w/ a sense of pride or blkness boldly demands rights in a country that fights tooth & nail to center ytness!!!
@karenHunter this was brilliant discussion as always
I second that!
I agree we don't have to put black in front of it. It's obvious we're black. We need to remember our original cultures and immerse ourselves in it.
I am a Black Scientist and Thinker. It’s all good 😊.
Yeees,!! That young man is Correct!! He speaks Truth!
Anti- blackness still got us in a chokehold 😔
And yet we think we can get White America out of the chokehold that we are stuck in ourselves.
The default in the world is the concept of whiteness. So they automatically assume white. We know how that came about so silencing your blackness makes you complicit with the system of whiteness.
Whats wrong is black doesn't mean anything. Are you ADOS, Jamaican, Kenyan, Haitian? Those labels tell people something about you. Black suggests what exactly? Ditch all colors. Lineages matter... debts matter, and laws matter
Absolutely!! ❤
I am unapologetically black and unashamedly Christian
I relate to where Kevin is coming from, I really do, but I think he's got Neil's words completely mis-interpreted. There is a world of difference between being labeled a "Black Scientist" vs. being a scientist who is Black.
Brother Kevin was spot on with his observations and analysis!
We can't drop the title of black until black becomes the norm. It's like saying cell instead of cellular mobile device. You don't have to say all that for us to know what you're talking about. We just know. When everyone understands the beautiful nuances of being black is, then we can stop saying black.
Take out your business card. If it doesn’t read “Black Accountant” or “Black (insert job title here” then your actions side with Neil’s argument and it doesn’t mean you don’t love the black community
i love listening to karen talk. Nice podcast.
thanks...(but this isn't a podcast...these are clips from a live radio show, M-F, 3-6 p.m. ET).
We need to take a leaf from Jamaica, of all of us in the archipelago of the Caribbean, they are true to themself, they do not conform to anyone's culture, they retained speech partners and culture where ever they go. No apology!
Good discussion sister Karen.
Beautiful discourse Professor Karen Hunter. We must be centered in OURstory’s excellence and use it as a resource NOT as an abstract reference. We are our own Cultural Liberators and it is our overarching responsibility and duty to uplift our enduring beauty, tenacity, integrity, dignity, value, and continuity.
We must stop trying to center ourselves within whiteness. No more of the expected - “I’m just like you talk; or - don’t mention how I look talk; or - I don’t want to be different talk; or - please approve and accept my work as comparable to yours talk. Stand tall and erect with your chest out and your head held high and proudly proclaim in the bold spirit of our courageous collective Ancestors such as Paul Robeson, Malcolm X, Ida B. Wells, etc., ==>
“YES, - I ABSOLUTELY AM AN AFRICAN ________”. And then insert in the blank your particular training, such as engineer, scientist, professor, writer, doctor, etc.
If race is a.conatruct, I too am what I say. I love being, loving and dancing in my Blackness.
I think we need to say it because we have children who hate who they are because of the color of their skin. As Dr. King said, and I paraphrase, the white man made the color of our skin a threat - WE DIDN'T.
I wholeheartedly agree with Kevin. And the “Black scientist” label is heavy for Dr. Tyson because he has given it weight and a negative connotation. It’s light as a feather for me, so I don’t mind wearing it around my neck like a scarf.
I'd love to hear the full clip because it does seem like he's misspoken, especially considering who his father was. However, the key thing that seems to be missed by everyone I've seen talk about this is that he framed it as **what THEY see in their mind**. That is, it SEEMED like he could be speaking to the fact that internalized racism is prevalent and, therefore, the "Blackness" can inadvertently frame what that person sees in front of them. We should DEFINITELY be unapologetically Black but it also reminds me of how everyone is an actor now and they've generally stopped calling people *actresses*. The same people exist but now there's a common term to help standardize the practice, no matter how you identify.
I understand and agree with Neil's point. He's NOT disowning or trying to downplay his blackness. He's just saying see him and respect him as a scientist when he is working or discussing science the same way that people see and refer to white scientists as just being scientists.
Yes he is trying to downplay and disown his blackness. That's his entire point. He made it very clear how HE interprets the label of black.
@@xman9190 no he's not. Hell, a few months ago he was on the Joe Rogan Podcast promoting his latest book and he was talking about how the smartest people in the entire world are from Africa (which is from a chapter in his book that deals with racism and how dumb it is). He also pointed out how stupid it was for racist white people to compare black people to monkeys and apes when it's white people who build treehouses to hangout in. He also pointed out how white people are susceptible to lice due to their hair and that black people don't have lice. That to me, is not someone who is trying to downplay his blackness.
@@wraithx7
He literally said in this video that he doesn't want to be called black because it "ghetto-fies" him.
@@xman9190 he said that he didn't want to be called or referred to as a "black scientist", and I agree with him. We don't see famous white or Asian scientists being referred to as "white scientist" and "Asian scientist".
@@wraithx7
You keep dancing around the fact that he said that calling him black ghetto-fies the conversation. He didn't say what you just said. I do see other people (professionals) referred to by their ethnicity.
Mr. Degrasse and Mr. Elba are great at what they do. There were others before you to allow you in this space. This space will be move on without you. Being black is a badge of honor.
I am close to 79 years, there was no “Black “ history growing up. BUT once I discovered books with it, wow, everything about me changed. I am a book junky. The confidence, worldview and ability to articulate the “ who” I am in any situation, expanded exponentially.
I have come to a point where I realize the mess this group of entities have created, understanding their mediocrity in most all they do and create, I am detached. My community is my primary focus. They are going to self destruct.
Resurrecting and preserving our native culture is primary for our youth.
We should have never had to apologize in the first place.
As his discourse further indicated, Neil was using "ghetto" by its strict definition (as scientists tend to do) meaning: "Fencing off" and "separating." Identifying himself or being identified as a "black scientist," would mean that he's limited to science as it applies to blacks. An auto mechanic might feel the same way, that he doesn't want to be fenced off as a "black auto mechanic." And none of that means he's cutting himself off socially from the blackness of his history and heart. He's not saying "don't call me black," he's saying don't define his profession practice as "black."
Asking artists for their opinion of a scientist's viewpoint is not particularly valid; artists may very well _intend_ to limit themselves in that manner because art is so intensely personal and born out of their personal identities.
We do not "ghettoize" a title. We need to stop allowing us to label us.
I'm just like king Solomon said I'm black and lovely, even he knew black is special blessing from the one's who made heaven and earth blackness,
For me I have found that when I move with self respect, respect will come from otters. No matter the place.
Hello Karen Hunter! You consistently ask hard and important questions..... THANK YOU for that! I have not figured out how best to be able to listen to the WHOLE of your programming - such as THIS particular conversation centered around Neil DeGrasse and his remarks....... can you or your team advise me? THANKS!
Yup./ We're on SiriusXM, M-F, 3-6 p.m. ET...here is a link: player.siriusxm.com/KarenHunterShow
MY views on it are that I am a Black Man, I am a Drum Circle Facilitator. And it's quite clear that I'm a Black Drum Circle Facilitator. I do NOT run from it and in fact, in my events, I am CLEAR as HELL of my connection to my Mississippi roots and BoTH my African ancestry AND my Indigenous ancestry.....and I guide other folks (Black, White, Brown) in participating in the celebration of that culture....AND I let them know that ALL of us are part of ALL of these cultures. I love, love, LOVE the notion of Black Joy, Black Girl/Boy Joy, and other "Black" labeled groups and activities. I LOVE LOVE LOVE that my daughter is an author of "Afro-Futurism". THAT SAID,I do NOT label myself in the world "as a Black Drum Circle Facilitator"..
This topic reminds me of the movie “Whatever Happened To Baby Jane” it stars Bette Davis and Joan Crawford. There’s a scene where Joan says to Bette. She says “ If I wasn’t in this wheelchair, etc etc “. Bette’s response was “ But you are Blanche, you are”. Dude is Black and there’s no escaping it. Be happy to be both Black and a scientist. The two can coexist.
I think most people who listened did not hear NDT. I think he was instructing them to not put their limitations on him because when they say Black Their concept of Black is limited. I don't think he was saying anything indicating self hate or disrespect to our elders and ancestors. He was showing them their limited thinking.
You are right on!!!!
Don't condemn me...Amen!!!
*#UnapologeticallyBlackBlackityBlackBlack**!!* ✊🏾
When they do that they want you to stay in your lane and place you in your respective black groups because collectively they don't see you nor acknowledge you.
You can tell the people who try to minimize their blackness by the way they move.
Wonderful conversations and dialog on this channel!😊
We are melinated beings, living to BE. What name someone chooses to call me, is none of my business. My business is what my actions are and what I choose to answer to.
This just proves white supremacy is still working very well on us as a people this should not even be a question of course I am a proud black man in this space that I am proud in if y look at me any other way that’s your problem not mine
When and why did black Americans begin calling ourselves “black”?
Who invented the concept?
Him and Idris Alba have me rolling my eyes. Sometimes the smartest people are the dumbest.
When centering a white supremacists perspective, I understand Neil's standpoint. THE ISSUE IS THAT WE STILL STRUGGLE WITH CENTERING WHITENESS(Shout out to sistah Bell). Ultimately, I'm with Kevin!!! I'd also say that to an extent, I still struggle with the fact that I learned to love black by way of White racial creation, resilience to it, and oppression versus African black creation, brilliance, and beauty.
It's on me to do this work and I'm committed especially being an educator!!
I'm also with Karen when she pushes the understanding of what it means to be HUMAN because we are of the beginning of human creation in all its forms, thus when this modern colonial/imperial shiz falls, as it shall, it'll be us in our progressive form that teaches what to do in order to rebuild a new world order!!! We gotta do this together knowing that if one is not well we are all unwell.
But is there a Black perspective of the Black Hole? No. He's an astrophysicist. Is his prism black? No.
C'mon bro PREACH ✊🏽
My problem with NDT is that he has no intellectual curiosity, only in proven facts. He seems to be very eurocentric in thought. That seems like a terrible way to view the universe.
People tend to forget. That announcing you’re a black this or a black that is a term of endearment and respect from the black community. A lot of positions and rights that black people can now achieve were at one time unachievable.
A lot of people died to pave the way for those achievements. Equity for all was never a part of the black community.
I can see you as a successful person and know that and be happy that you are a successful black person. Knowing my family history will always make me think this way.
The same discourse was leveled at bryant Gumbel almost forty years ago... I do not think that As a broad culture
We are Productively analyzing what these gentlemen are saying.. It's not about disavowing one's race, It's about disallowing qualifiers offered by OTHERS...
Beautiful 🌸
I’ve always described myself as a black broker! Being black is my life’s experience, my context, my perspective and my great pleasure! I walk black, talk black, smile and laugh black and when I die I WILL DIE A BLACK! 😂
Respect to all those who lead with that label, I guess it is necessary for those Americans who are indigenous to the Americas or descendants of those forcefully brought over from Africa and have lost touch with the motherland to identify by that label and feel incomplete without it. But for me I don’t need that label, and I don’t need anybody to project that upon me just because I come from Africa and have a darker hue. It is quite lame to make the statement about how the world “sees” me what world, I create and define my world of reality and don’t need anybody to pin a label upon me.
After making North America my home, what I don’t get is this hypnotic like suggestions to say because I am an African then I am that label, sorry that is what I disagree with, please leave that in the Americas, for I guess you need that from a political perspective. In addition, there are no whites but simply people that have a lighter shade of skin tone and likely descendants of people from Europe. When you learn to disengage from this man made systemic ideologies/structures you begin to become aware of the True Power you wield until then you are nothing more than a pun in this shadow world of duality.
Neil is protecting HIS experience in his environment because there isn't MUCH black people among his peers! Embrace who you are & ve proud!
How does it free us? This is a construct given to us. We didn't select black and it certainly does not define the color of my skin.
An I can’t stand being called African American Am black born raised and will be black until the heart stops beating !! Yes we’re Africans descendants from our enslaved ancestors but BLACK as we all know isn’t just about skin color it’s deep it’s nuanced an in 61 years of living there hasn’t been one second of of it that are filled with any kinds regrets or wanting change over because it seemed an easier path in life BLACK PEOPLE hold your collective heads up and be who you are unapologetically and never ever try to explain us to anyone 1 because we don’t owe them an explanation 2 explaining it like we’re our existence HELL 2 THA NO DON’T EVER DO IT 🤘🏿🤘🏿✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿
This is a governance vs social structure issue.
I agree 💯 with Kevin Powell. Thank you sir!
It’s crazy annoying when he says that. It’s hypocritical. He constantly trades on being the rare Black astronomer/ astrophysicist whether he acknowledges it or not.There are easily 10,000 plus people in the profession hardly any of them are Black. Of course they’re going to put a mic in his exotic face. How many albino tiger pictures we do we see ? Tons. They get disproportionate attention. Nobody cares about the default tiger with those old stankin’ ass orange and black stripes. The white tiger would look just stupid as Dr. Tyson talking about, “I’m a tiger not a white tiger”
The freaking nuance and the relatability in this convo are so appreciated and necessary ❤! Loved Kevin's comments about not condemning people. That really is so important, and it's something I need to work on 😅. Thank you, Karen, for another great video!
im a black/african human. what you think about that is your business. periodt and the end
I personally don’t want to look like, be or act like any other human tribe but my own. My heritage descendant from Africa and through all the confusion and game played on society I have won, because I love me.🌸 Thank You Holy Spirit for the gift of discernment and being able to avoid the pitfalls of the CON. I Love Who I Am.💜
part of the challenge is the industry in which anyone operates + Bro Neil is a man of a certain age; respectability politics is a real deal. black members of the scientific community is coming into its agency. it takes time with a new generation.
Dr. Tyson is brilliant, but he doesn't have the range for these kind of conversations.
Peace sis. I wish I could speak to that. I was teaching science at a charter school a few years ago and my students wanted me to be anything but black. Sorry.
I’m Blackety black. Unapologetically.
*But NO PORK on my fork, lol.
My presence is black! When I walk into a room you see a black man period. Your fears and curiosity run through your mind with my many traits.
What a conundrum... ❤
You would have to watch the full interview of what Neil degrass Tyson was saying to get full context.
I believe what he was saying is when dealing with objective facts of the universe your assigned social constructed, identity is not as important as ultimate reality. Once you assign a social description to a person who is making objective points, people may view the person and what their saying through a stereotypical lens point of view and based on those stereotypes people will biasly filter information not based on objective reality but subjective perception
So in essence your not a Black astrophysicists you're an astrophysicist who happens to be Black
Your Black identity may be important to others who share that same social construct but it has nothing to do with your ability
Your Blackness is not as important to reality as your knowledge on a given subject
A mathematician who happens to be Black is not doing Black mathematics
A surgeon who happens to be Black is not doing Black surgery
A doctor who happens to be Black is not doing Black medicine.
This is what science is, it's either true or it's not and the person who finds that truth is not doing so based on any one particular aspect of their biological make up and definitely not because of a concept like race which is a creation of the imagination. Basically race is science fiction forced to be accepted as reality
It would be like saying Stephen Hawkins was practicing quadriplegic science when in reality he was a scientist who just happened to have been quadriplegic
Your perceived race is important to others but has little to do with your mental faculty.
What Tyson was saying is don't you (white people) label me a Black scientist because white supremacy has a mind virus of lessening anything done by non white people by adding race to the conversation.
No one says white scientist because white people just get to be scientists, where as everyone else not white has an asterisk next their name
I got it and Kevin got it...we just don't agree.
Exactly. Black people of Dr Neil deGrasse Tyson's caliber should understand that if he weren't referred to as a BLACK Astrophysicist, Black children would not know he is until they see him. All children are inspired by people who belong to their group. This country is trying to return to the days when they displayed White men or women's images any time they referred to admirable accomplishments, innovations of Black people.
Even black self love is attacked to pave the way for extended oppression.
I think that there is some self hatred in Neil
Dr. Hunter, this is off topic but what is the song that is playing during the clothing advert in the beginning of the video?
Kevin Powell has spoken!
This brother is speaking pure facts at the 8:20 mark.