@@billymclaughlin4803 in New construction yes, a house of cards doesn't stand because of 1 Also you are aware that many studs warp and dislodge from either the bottom or the top and there are some times a half inch Gap or even more as the warping occurs and the house does not fall 😂 It's OK, nothing will happen ✔️
In many jurisdictions code, when breaking a stud for a niche in a load bearing wall, you would be required to build the opening with a proper header, jacks and kings. lumber is cheap and it only takes an extra 10-15 minutes to do a proper framing job
I’ve been wondering the same thing! He’s not the only one, I’ve watch a couple of these videos now and no one is building a header. I would think that would just make the tile more susceptible to cracking, please give me your thoughts.
@@adams5423 I was understanding you couldn't modify a load bearing without engineering. So I did several little ones in between each stud but will reframe if allowed
You need a header bub. I would lose my shit if I hired someone and they did what you just did. For all the shit you talk on other trades, you sure seem to be Jo'ed up
Thanks for taking the time to produce these videos. I've been using your whole series for my tub to shower conversion. Only thing missing was making a plumber's box for my drain relocation; but I found that elsewhere. One comment on this video would be that although I agree that the other studs in this wall are handling the load for the stud you cut, I believe that it's code to create a double header for load bearing walls to ensure the load is transferred to the adjacent studs properly.
Hey Bob, just wanted to say thanks for all the great help so far. Im 100% DIY but like to do things right the first time. Your videos have taken me from ZERO bathroom remodeling knowledge to being able to do all the work myself. Thanks for posting these videos! +20
Cute hammer! :) I do enjoy your videos! Not a tiler by any stretch. I’m a carpenter attempting to tile my tub surround and bathroom floor. I watch a lot of videos. Yours and 1 other (not Sal) are the only ones that I feel have given me a great deal of useable info! Thank you Although, seeing a plethora of others has showed me what NOT to do as well! So, really they’re all useful to some degree!
Please keep your videos technical, us installers love this 🙏🏿😅 great tips and key points all through out the videos especially the measurements and explaining it when it pertains to the install. Love it keep it up
Beautiful when finished. I was hoping to see more of the tile installation process. IE the bull nose, the sloping of the "sill", which piece to do first for best water run-off... How you made the design, etc.
Hey Dude, bad advice on saying it’s ok to cut out a stud from an external wall which is 100% load bearing and will affect the structural integrity of that wall. Over time that top plate will deflect and cause your wonderful niche and tiling job to crack. You should advise on correct building practice and advise to put in a lintel above the opening. What you are doing is what we in Australia call dodgy workmanship.
I can appreciate your opinion and I do not doubt what you say to be true in your experience... by the way that same exact bathroom I just posted a video this morning on my channel 3 years later, not a thing wrong, in fact none of my niches fail in the way that you think it does. The sky truly is not falling, everything is okay, no worries👈👍😂
That’s fine, yours may not have failed due to several factors, however others who follow your advice with a more substantial roof load may fail. The matter of the fact is that you are giving wrong advice to a lot of these people. Its not my opinion, it’s a matter of fact, there is a reason why building codes exist. As a building inspector I have seen lots of this type of work that has failed. whether the sky is falling or not your advice is incorrect. Your finished product is fantastic, but what are you masking?
I agree with this. The framing should be similar to a window... headers, cripple studs, and jack studs should be used to fully support and disperse the load.
@@HousesandCars to a certain extent you have a point but you know and I know we have seen warped studs that are barely even nailed into the top or bottom plate before but yet there is no structural failure, I think it's a mountain out of a molehill on this... if I had ever had something happen in 20 years I probably would take this advice with more seriousness
@@StarrTile Honestly there's only one way to accept the information provided. You should accept that your process was wrong and make it a point to change. You're not validated by what didn't happen. If the wall doesn't fall, it doesn't mean you're right. Build it to code and prove you're right! I'm not trying to pick on you. I've learned a lot from your videos and I appreciate you, but you should accept when you're wrong.
Hey, Bob, great work. While I don't agree with the green board (black mold in previous shower-big, costly mess) you do excellent work. I'm a DIY'er but never did a shower. I wanted to change my tub to a shower and it would have cost me thousands to have someone do it. I can do it with confidence from your videos. Thanks, I signed up.
It never sits right with me people saying "nitch"... when you say something has it's own niche or "they are in a niche" then that also makes sense for what this is, a small space of its own. I think it was supposed to be "niche" but half the fuckers who build them haven't a clue what a niche is so they call it a nitch.
Niche..."neesh" is french, I'm not in France, plus the French don't like speaking English so I'm not speaking French. Google niche, hit the speaker and you will here "nitch" 👌✌
Thank you for the video. But a couple questions from a curious amateur. 1. 16:31 Why don't you put the bottom piece in first? That would create a natural lip/overhang, just as you do when you tile the bottom of the shower. 2. Why not pre-slope the bottom niche piece somehow, either with mortar or risers? This would prevent water that enters through grout cracks from pooling on the flat surface. My instincts would be to do both...so wondering why that's wrong.
Thank you. We are about to renovate our small bathroom and this really helped. I want to use the same tile in the niche as in the shower but my partner says it won't look finished. What do you think?
Made my niche today and will be using aquadefense to waterproof it. I did not go between the studs like you did…..wasn’t that brave! Lol. Thank you again for your excellent tutorial!!!
Niches on exterior walls make me nervous. I’ve actually had a siding guy blast a few nails through the tile when replacing tile. Not much you can do about that. Last house I did the niche backed up to the kitchen wall where cabinets were being hung. In that case, I was the tile installer as well as cabinet installer so I was able to mark out where he niche was on the kitchen side so I knew where to avoid screws. Point of the story, be careful what’s happening on the other side of the wall when a niche is installed.
Thank you for the great film. My contractor installed a waterproof sheetrock, but I want now a niche, like in this film. Can I cut out a rectangular for the niche, or I need to remove corresponding sheetrock piece completely, and if so, would it be a problem to place it back? And how to attach the small pieces on the sides of niche, are they on screws or just on the caulk, especially that one on the top, probably on some screws, since it might not hold the mortar and fell out?
I bought a slightly shorter tub so I can I have an extra 4" of room from the exterior wall where I wanted my niche, I wanted to have the extra room so that exterior wall is fully insulated and also to prevent people from nailing siding, screwing wires or the anything that can puncture my shower niche, in addition in that wall with all the extra space I was able to install R-30 insulation, I know what I did is not always possible...
How do you determine the height of where you made the cut on the stud. Like measurement from the sub floor to the stud? Aswell can you use screws to attach the 2x4 to the left and right studs or is a nail gun recommended. Any help would be appreciated. Enjoy your videos and have learned a ton of stuff from you keep it up you the man.
I was debating with myself if I should use cement board or green drywall for my remodel bathroom job. After watching this I am going with green board and red guard
I'm not certain where you are filming this video, but a niche in an outside wall with no insulation? Aside from code issues, I am in Minnesota, as I watch this video the temperature is -9°f. Mostly this would be an awesome place to keep your beer cold but I think shampoo would come out in frozen chunks.
😂😂😂😂 yes you are correct, I am in Atlanta and it rarely gets to even 20 degrees, even when it does it's only a few days, but by the way there was plenty of insulation from the siding to the phone they put behind the siding, to my wall board and my tile, not to mention the ambient temperature inside of the house
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm working a shower job at home here. You use green board and not Duroc (etc.) OK. Would you use a plastic 4 mill behind it or is it over kill?
The part I'm trying to figure out is the tile pieces. I scan through this video and at one point, instantly all the tile is placed. Tile shapes today are very limited compared to what was around a generation ago. Lots of sizes, textures and colors now, yes. Huge variety of flat pieces. I can build a niche. The hard part is getting tile for the corners.
Love your videos, lots of great info for the DIY'er. I had been looking at preformed niches and originally was looking at this video for framing to install a preformed niche but after seeing this video seems to be easier to use the framing itself to build the niche. Doing it this way does it make the niche deeper meaning the lower shelf wider?
Here in the last couple years i haven't been placing DensSheild on the back wall of the nitch. I have been using fiber matt material and red grard. It makes the nitch 1/2 deeper. I seal everything like Sal does his water proofing. Just though i would share that with you.
The choice for green plasterboard over hardibacker is correct, I usually skim with grey thinset with added SBR, internal waterproofing admix, as we don't have redgaurd hear. If it's a wet room or around the niche.then a rubberised tanking layer is best. Ardex tanking kits only need a 90min drying time but extra cost.
Hey mate nice job, just wondering, would it be a better idea to overlap the the inside niche tile over the wall tile? that way the grout joint isn't exposed to, to much water. Keep up the good work 👍
Have a 1940 house with NO wall insulation. 2x8 outside wall framing only. I made sure there is a thick attack blanket wherever I have access. Our West Washington weather is not usually warm or extremely cold. 40’s and 50’s wet winters. We have no problems with keeping the house warm. We are protected from three of the four usual wind directions. A rare North wind does effect our comfort and ability to keep the house super warm. The gas bills are very reasonable. We have modern windows, but the NO wall insulation does not seem to matter much. I doubt removing a foot of wall insulation would make much of any difference in any home unless there was a lot of very cold wind. We also have radiant heat that is very nice. Love the way our house stays warm but breathes. Had a well insulated stuffy modern forced air heated house too. Would never want that stuffy, loud, dry heat again. This house that breathes is much more comfortable overall.
I believe “Sawzall” is the specific brand name for Milwaukee’s recip saw, and since they were the inventor of it, it gets to be the generic term for recip saws of all brands as well.
Since it's a load bearing wall, framing needed jacks and a header. You're right about the board you use. In the end it's the waterproofing process what matters.
For the header: So you would cut the two vertical studs in the center another 1 1/2” or 3 1/2? Would it go flat against top and bottom or would you stand it up. For the Jack: would this go both top and bottom? Along the two side studs? Thanks!!
Hey Bob, Would you recommend installing a nitche on the shower wall that is an exterior wall ? My concern is would impact the R factor of tue installation due to the compression . It is a 2x6 wall
Probably 8 of the 10 niches I do are always going to be exterior wall.... would that matter in Alaska or Canada, probably most certainly, but where I'm at in Georgia is fairly temperate. Plus sheet rock & tile cover the siding plus ambient temp inside.
StarrTile Because cement board is not recommended for areas that are very wet. There is no organic matter that will promote mold, rot, shrinkage, or decomposition in cement board. Thus, while the cement board will not expand from water exposure, it will seep to the studs. This is why you use a moisture barrier or sealant like RedGard or Laticrete. This is an industry de facto practice. The guy is correct.
In NC it's generally a rule of thumb that on a wall with tile over 8x8 inches spanning the height of 18 inches (basically anything bigger than a backsplash over a counter top) needs to have backerboard in place of drywall simply due to weight issues and preventing the wall from bowing later down the road. This is especially pushed in the case of showers. Like I said its rule of thumb, not forced by code. But for the cost comparison of material, and the overall guarantee of reliability I have no idea as to why anyone would use drywall instead of backerboard. Especially in a shower. I hear you mention tearing out a lot of showers, well so have I. The worst ones I've tore out were always glued over drywall because people cut corners. But this is just my experiences. One thing I've learned is everyone does it differently, and everyone believes the way they do it is the right way. So it really just boils down to weather or not your way eventually fails. If it's doesn't continue on my friend. But in my most humblest opinion I would never put drywall in a shower.
@PaniK yep, I have taken out every backerboard out there and have not seen one that does not get moldy and mildewy, even some of it has been weak before because of the years of saturation
@@roberthelmick9574 Remember the RULE OF THUMB 50 years ago with the 2 inch mortar packed bathroom floors and wire mesh, and then install the little mosaic tiles. Can't tell you how many of these floors I demo and replace, always water damage and failure to the subfloor, these floors retained water, Redguard is becoming the answer to water damage issues, it's not perfect, but it has lasting qualities.
Do you think a nitch could be lighted from behind glass tile? If so, how would you do it? Just thought it would be a challenge to you, and depending on your answer, I may try to do it in my upcoming bathroom remodel. Thanks for you videos. Learned a lot.
Actually it has been done already with LED lights, love the idea and can't wait for a customer to give me the approval to do one of these ua-cam.com/video/UYIoSt7gQ1E/v-deo.html
Really it is hit-and-miss unless you cut out the niche after you've already started setting the tile... I've never been one that tries to match up my grout lines to where the niche is at, if it happens then great if it doesn't then no big deal to me
Bob I am adding a niche to a tub/shower and the wall i want to put the niche in backs up to a 2nd bathroom wall that currently has a 1 piece tub/shower fiberglass unit(tub and wall). Suggestions on how to mount the back wall of the niche? Also, please keep in mind eventually the other bathroom will get gutted and will be replaced with shower only tiled walls. So whatever installation i do for this niche back wall would have to survive or double as a backing in that bathroom as well. Thanks in advance
you do great work. Cant say you cant. But Bro... Please stop using green board in showers. Even if Red Guard or the best tropical membrane. Its no good, as skilled as you are you should know this. This isnt a hate comment, Love tha work. But ugh.. No more green board in showers.
Who cares if he used regular drywall, its being waterproofed anyway... That's like saying not to use plywood on a subfloor and then use a shower liner on top because the plywood will soak up water..... Water will never hit the plywood OR the drywall so it's fine.
Stop buying into cement board, that's what they want you to do, BUY NEW PRODUCT, keep buying the NEW THING! It's perfectly fine to use greenboard when you prep it correctly. Stop it. Cement board is NOT NEEDED!
I live in southeast Kentucky and the only problem I've ever ran into putting the nooks on the exterior walls is if happens to be the side of the house that takes all the wind in late winter when it's really really cold the tile actually sweats I've insolated um and still have the same problem but if sealed properly the extra moisture in the winter is not an issue
oh yeah and I never use green board on my surrounds dude you know better aqua seal or right gaurd I don't care how much of that junk you use it still picks up more moisture than any Hardy backer would and later in the years the surround will have issues and when you glue your backer onto the wall spend the couple extra bucks on liquid nails!!!
Love you videos super informative, one question do you recommend getting your supply's from a construction supply store or do aces like Home Depot have enough selection to do quality shower remodel
Been watching your videos. Great work! I'm putting in a 70" wide niche that runs across 3 studs on an exterior wall. Is reinforcing with a metal frame overkill? Or shall i use two 2x4's (4" vertical) to strengthen it? Instead of the 2x4 laying flat. Thanks in advanced
I just installed my shower niche on an exterior wall, using silicone like you did to secure the back piece of hardier board to the exterior wall piece. I live in Texas, only a month or so of cold weather but I’ve been reading that I shouldn’t have put it on the exterior.. I’m nervous now, do you think it’ll be okay?
Even a hard freeze in a very cold area would not affect anything... you have siding, insulation, and more importantly you have ambient temperature which is basically what your thermostat is on... in the winter time mine has it about 80 🤣
Thanks for that info. I went out and read the specs on the Denshield. It's got to make you smile. Drywall with waterproofing on it. Go figure. I'll be spreading the Redgarding tomorrow. I use that extensively , works that's all that matters. Later
@@brianmeredith7324 mix your mud thick and get to it early in your tile setting that day so before you leave u obviousy have time to double check it is exactly how u want it so you can stack on it and build the rest of the tile around the niche flush.
I did a shower like that in a basement but used 2x6 so the recess is deeper, I used redguard and weed mat non woven fabric for reinforcing, it wets out easier and bends into corners better than fiberglass and it's much cheaper. Just wondering why you bother to mud the joints in the green board? I just redguard some fiberglass joint tape into it and do an extra coat before tiling.
When I tore out my bath tub I noticed it had regular drywall behind the tile with no water damage, it appears to have some sort of coating on it as well, your fine with the green board imo.
Yes...in theory. One stud cut with horizontal support sure is better than most I see that are twisted and warping and pulled away from bottom plate.... So there is that
Don't waste your time getting top and bottom boards same distance apart on both ends until you have *first* leveled the bottom board and fastened it in place.
Just curious, if the water "happened" to get through the grout and down to the shelf, you said the water would sit and stagnate. Why don't you go ahead and make the bottom, on a slope, pre-redgard(maybe even pre-wallboard)? That way there would be no water ever to sit and stagnate. Although it would go down the wall behind the tile/thinset and possibly deteriorate the thinset and tile starting fall off?? Damn.... a love hate relationship with water..
Whenever I can, I try to talk my clients out of Shower Niches. I suggest, were Possible, a Knee wall as an alternative, with a storage shelf (1 or 2) on the Shower side. That avoids the ugly large Plastic (Soap/Shampoo/etc.) bottles taking away from the beauty of the Tiled Shower. Most agree! JMO
I enjoy your videos and I've learn from them, but here in the Bay area California, I don't know any contractor that still using green board for showers, all it takes it's one little cut trough the paper layer and game over, we float for the most part or hardy backer+red guard
Using Redgard makes the type of backer irrelevant... anyway I've never torn out a shower where the walls were wet or damaged, only at the bottom where guys will set their wall board first and then pour their pan, that causes damage, not because your walls have green board or any other board on them
I use the Schluter premade niches and cut them in half if need be. I can band over the cut and keep my lifetime warranty without compromising the waterproofing.
Hey. I've enjoyed watching your videos, especially the showers you do. I have a question about shower niche's. I have a walk in/stand alone shower in my basement. The overall appearance and tile work is good, not great but the one eyesore that's been killing me is the niche's. Whoever did the shower didn't use bullnose tiles and the border or edges of the shelves just look sloppy. Without removing the existing tile, is there any type of molding or something like that that I could use to kind of border the edges of the niche? I don't really want to go overboard with the shower down there as it is seldom used but at the same time, the unfinished edges just aggravate me. Please let me know if there is something I can get to make it look better that won't cost me an arm and a leg! Thank you Billy H.
+Vedder10VS I have no idea what you could use....taking out the tile around it & replacing with bullnose seems the way to go. Tile stores sometimes have someone that will make bullnose from tile you bring them if you can't find a good match.
+StarrTile Thanks for the reply. I'll deal with it for now and maybe someday down the road i'll get it fixed. thanks again for your response and thanks for making great videos as well.
I just wanna know if that’s regular drywall mud or thinset on the seams.. and if you used tape, which tape is best? Ive used a cement board mesh tape and thinset the seams on drywall before
If I'm using green board then it would be mud, if I'm using cement board it would be thinset, and no I do not use tape because my waterproofer is a crack preventer as well and that's what tape would do... if you wanted to use tape and a waterproofer then by all means but it's a bit redundant
First off let say that your video was very informative however I looking at doing a 12 by 36 niche. My problem is the wall backs up to my dining room which is only drywall can I glue the hardy board or green backer board to the dry wall and still get the same results. And will I have a problem cutting three studs and putting in a header and footer on the wall.
+mark ashby Yes you can glue whatever backerboard straight to the sheetrock. Cutting the studs is a non-issue, as I mentioned there are thousands of things keeping your house together, taking out any dozen will have no effect unless it were a load bearing wall...anyway you'll be re-shoring what you took out.
Any issue with installing a Niche above an electrical outlet? My long wall shares electrical for the kitchen on the other side and there's an outlet just below where I'm thinking.
Thank you sir, you can use whatever backer you want to but in the end I'm assuming you're waterproofing it so there by canceling out the backer board makeup, hope it turns out well
Are you using 1/2" cbu on your walls and do you use the same size for the inside of the niche? Just wondering how much depth is left after the cbu the thinset and the tile? I want to add a niche like yours but just wondering if there is enough depth is i use the cbu on the back. Don't know if i can use kerdi membrane instead so that it is deeper.
are the cut tiles around the edge (bullnoses) smooth edged that you made or from the outside edges of the tiles used on the wall that were just cut into small pieces or did you do or use something special to make a nice finished edge?
There is a wet saw blade specifically made to cut bullnose, it is very expensive and I do not own one, so I take the field tile to a guy who does it for me
That was my immediate thought, too. It’s like cutting out a window in a structural wall. You gotta do something, you can’t just slap a couple of horizontal boards in there and call it good. That niche has no load bearing capacity.
Yes.... I understand the point you're trying to make. PPL are free to do king jack cripple header for a niche if they feel it relieves a problem, I'm not one of those.
I think it's a lot of extra work for very little return. Yes your walls will be true and Plumb, but the rest of your house isn't and never will be. In the turn of the century when Craftsman took pride in their work and houses were built right then floating had a purpose but if you handed them backerboard I'm sure they would be appreciative... all they could do was float because that's all they had
Hello StarrTile, The back of the niche in my case is the back side of the room behind the shower. [Similar to your board at 15:35, instead of the OSB it would be the backside of the drywall in the other room, which is green board, but just the rear side of it which is tanish/gray. If redgard'ed, is this a likely acceptable approach?
So with every Niche that I build, regardless of what's behind it I always put a secondary piece of sheetrock in, a lot of caulking will hold it in and then you trim it out on the top bottom and sides with sheetrock. And BTW, thank you so much for your support on Patreon 👍👌
@@StarrTile Got it, thank you for the quick response. In summary your layers from rear to front would be OSB, caulk, green board, water proofing (3 or so layers of RedGard), thinset then tile. What's left after the build up? Doesn't that take up about 2 inches of a 4 inch wall?
@@tillmansr2002 sorry, the osb is your exterior wall...caulk in greenboard to that, only 1/2" there, but that's made up from 1/2" greenboard on walls...then redgard, thinset and tile, so you only come off back wall maybe 1/2" or 3/4"...but outside wall has redgard, thinset and tile too so bump out is negligible. Finished Shelf of niche is generally 4" or close.
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I would be happy to pay u on patron if I can call and ask for advice here and there.
Where’s the header that is definitely required on an exterior wall which are always load bearing. Always
@@billymclaughlin4803 in New construction yes, a house of cards doesn't stand because of 1
Also you are aware that many studs warp and dislodge from either the bottom or the top and there are some times a half inch Gap or even more as the warping occurs and the house does not fall 😂
It's OK, nothing will happen ✔️
In many jurisdictions code, when breaking a stud for a niche in a load bearing wall, you would be required to build the opening with a proper header, jacks and kings. lumber is cheap and it only takes an extra 10-15 minutes to do a proper framing job
I’ve been wondering the same thing! He’s not the only one, I’ve watch a couple of these videos now and no one is building a header. I would think that would just make the tile more susceptible to cracking, please give me your thoughts.
Just use structural drywall
Absolutely correct! This opening must be treated same as a door or window on a load-bearing wall - king and jack studs with rated header for the span.
@@adams5423 I was understanding you couldn't modify a load bearing without engineering. So I did several little ones in between each stud but will reframe if allowed
You need a header bub. I would lose my shit if I hired someone and they did what you just did. For all the shit you talk on other trades, you sure seem to be Jo'ed up
Thanks for taking the time to produce these videos. I've been using your whole series for my tub to shower conversion. Only thing missing was making a plumber's box for my drain relocation; but I found that elsewhere. One comment on this video would be that although I agree that the other studs in this wall are handling the load for the stud you cut, I believe that it's code to create a double header for load bearing walls to ensure the load is transferred to the adjacent studs properly.
Hey Bob, just wanted to say thanks for all the great help so far. Im 100% DIY but like to do things right the first time. Your videos have taken me from ZERO bathroom remodeling knowledge to being able to do all the work myself. Thanks for posting these videos! +20
I cod say the same
Good stuff
DIYers👍
Cute hammer! :)
I do enjoy your videos! Not a tiler by any stretch. I’m a carpenter attempting to tile my tub surround and bathroom floor. I watch a lot of videos. Yours and 1 other (not Sal) are the only ones that I feel have given me a great deal of useable info!
Thank you
Although, seeing a plethora of others has showed me what NOT to do as well!
So, really they’re all useful to some degree!
Please keep your videos technical, us installers love this 🙏🏿😅 great tips and key points all through out the videos especially the measurements and explaining it when it pertains to the install. Love it keep it up
Beautiful when finished. I was hoping to see more of the tile installation process. IE the bull nose, the sloping of the "sill", which piece to do first for best water run-off... How you made the design, etc.
Bob. I am in gwinnett. I have watched a lot of your videos. I have done a lot of tile work in the past but never any showers. Your videos help a lot.
Looks pretty darn good to me. And the red guard is a must on every shower, good job.
Hey Dude, bad advice on saying it’s ok to cut out a stud from an external wall which is 100% load bearing and will affect the structural integrity of that wall. Over time that top plate will deflect and cause your wonderful niche and tiling job to crack. You should advise on correct building practice and advise to put in a lintel above the opening. What you are doing is what we in Australia call dodgy workmanship.
I can appreciate your opinion and I do not doubt what you say to be true in your experience... by the way that same exact bathroom I just posted a video this morning on my channel 3 years later, not a thing wrong, in fact none of my niches fail in the way that you think it does. The sky truly is not falling, everything is okay, no worries👈👍😂
That’s fine, yours may not have failed due to several factors, however others who follow your advice with a more substantial roof load may fail. The matter of the fact is that you are giving wrong advice to a lot of these people. Its not my opinion, it’s a matter of fact, there is a reason why building codes exist. As a building inspector I have seen lots of this type of work that has failed. whether the sky is falling or not your advice is incorrect. Your finished product is fantastic, but what are you masking?
I agree with this. The framing should be similar to a window... headers, cripple studs, and jack studs should be used to fully support and disperse the load.
@@HousesandCars to a certain extent you have a point but you know and I know we have seen warped studs that are barely even nailed into the top or bottom plate before but yet there is no structural failure, I think it's a mountain out of a molehill on this... if I had ever had something happen in 20 years I probably would take this advice with more seriousness
@@StarrTile Honestly there's only one way to accept the information provided. You should accept that your process was wrong and make it a point to change. You're not validated by what didn't happen. If the wall doesn't fall, it doesn't mean you're right. Build it to code and prove you're right! I'm not trying to pick on you. I've learned a lot from your videos and I appreciate you, but you should accept when you're wrong.
Hey, Bob, great work. While I don't agree with the green board (black mold in previous shower-big, costly mess) you do excellent work. I'm a DIY'er but never did a shower. I wanted to change my tub to a shower and it would have cost me thousands to have someone do it. I can do it with confidence from your videos. Thanks, I signed up.
Thank you sir ! Much appreciated👍
Some people call it a "niche" too, not a "nitch" haha! Very helpful, thanks!
It never sits right with me people saying "nitch"... when you say something has it's own niche or "they are in a niche" then that also makes sense for what this is, a small space of its own.
I think it was supposed to be "niche" but half the fuckers who build them haven't a clue what a niche is so they call it a nitch.
Niche..."neesh" is french, I'm not in France, plus the French don't like speaking English so I'm not speaking French.
Google niche, hit the speaker and you will here "nitch" 👌✌
To cut the remaining part of the stud you could use a oscillating multi tool.It makes the cut so much easier to do.
Thank you for the video. But a couple questions from a curious amateur.
1. 16:31 Why don't you put the bottom piece in first? That would create a natural lip/overhang, just as you do when you tile the bottom of the shower.
2. Why not pre-slope the bottom niche piece somehow, either with mortar or risers? This would prevent water that enters through grout cracks from pooling on the flat surface.
My instincts would be to do both...so wondering why that's wrong.
Thank you. We are about to renovate our small bathroom and this really helped. I want to use the same tile in the niche as in the shower but my partner says it won't look finished. What do you think?
Just saw this video ,very educating I'm in the process of doing my bathroom,this right on point.great info.👍👍👍👍👍
Made my niche today and will be using aquadefense to waterproof it. I did not go between the studs like you did…..wasn’t that brave! Lol. Thank you again for your excellent tutorial!!!
When building a house I always run my electrical through the shower. WTH???? Great video thank you for sharing your experience and technics.
Niches on exterior walls make me nervous. I’ve actually had a siding guy blast a few nails through the tile when replacing tile. Not much you can do about that.
Last house I did the niche backed up to the kitchen wall where cabinets were being hung. In that case, I was the tile installer as well as cabinet installer so I was able to mark out where he niche was on the kitchen side so I knew where to avoid screws.
Point of the story, be careful what’s happening on the other side of the wall when a niche is installed.
I didn't even think of that...
And I JUST resided part of my house! Lol
Yes sir! Client insisted on a exterior wall niche.she got it along with the new siding nails a year later. And I warned her. Good thinking
I would add cripple studs under niche and inside on the sides, just cause i like load transfered
If it floats the boat.
👍
I really admire your work. You motivate me to excel with all my projects. Awesome work. Thanks for your videos as well.
Thank you for the great film. My contractor installed a waterproof sheetrock, but I want now a niche, like in this film. Can I cut out a rectangular for the niche, or I need to remove corresponding sheetrock piece completely, and if so, would it be a problem to place it back? And how to attach the small pieces on the sides of niche, are they on screws or just on the caulk, especially that one on the top, probably on some screws, since it might not hold the mortar and fell out?
I bought a slightly shorter tub so I can I have an extra 4" of room from the exterior wall where I wanted my niche, I wanted to have the extra room so that exterior wall is fully insulated and also to prevent people from nailing siding, screwing wires or the anything that can puncture my shower niche, in addition in that wall with all the extra space I was able to install R-30 insulation, I know what I did is not always possible...
This is a good video. I do mine pretty much the exact same way. I guess the only difference is I do mine 14 inches high, for no particular reason.
It's because our wives like to buy fancy hair products that come in giant tall tubs with push dispensers lol
How do you determine the height of where you made the cut on the stud. Like measurement from the sub floor to the stud? Aswell can you use screws to attach the 2x4 to the left and right studs or is a nail gun recommended. Any help would be appreciated. Enjoy your videos and have learned a ton of stuff from you keep it up you the man.
Question 1: Customer preference
Question 2: Either way is fine, if in doubt follow local code.
We do things almost exactly the same but I am learning some tricks. I love it. Good job
You're always so informative. If you ever looking for an apprentice I would love to work with you and learn your techniques. I live in Atlanta also
I was debating with myself if I should use cement board or green drywall for my remodel bathroom job. After watching this I am going with green board and red guard
I'm not certain where you are filming this video, but a niche in an outside wall with no insulation? Aside from code issues, I am in Minnesota, as I watch this video the temperature is -9°f. Mostly this would be an awesome place to keep your beer cold but I think shampoo would come out in frozen chunks.
😂😂😂😂 yes you are correct, I am in Atlanta and it rarely gets to even 20 degrees, even when it does it's only a few days, but by the way there was plenty of insulation from the siding to the phone they put behind the siding, to my wall board and my tile, not to mention the ambient temperature inside of the house
Nice. But being a load bearing wall, shouldn’t you use a header and jack studs to support the stud you cut out?
One stud does not support an entirety of a wall
Excellent explanation on this !! Thank you !
Question? What happens when the siding guys come and nail through that niche? Because the idiot home owner never mentions it.
You’re just screwed I guess 😂
You’ve never seen an Iron Maiden niche?
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm working a shower job at home here. You use green board and not Duroc (etc.) OK. Would you use a plastic 4 mill behind it or is it over kill?
The part I'm trying to figure out is the tile pieces. I scan through this video and at one point, instantly all the tile is placed. Tile shapes today are very limited compared to what was around a generation ago. Lots of sizes, textures and colors now, yes. Huge variety of flat pieces. I can build a niche. The hard part is getting tile for the corners.
Love your videos, lots of great info for the DIY'er. I had been looking at preformed niches and originally was looking at this video for framing to install a preformed niche but after seeing this video seems to be easier to use the framing itself to build the niche. Doing it this way does it make the niche deeper meaning the lower shelf wider?
Probably...idk because I don't know measurement of preformed niche
In theory.... could I cut through two center joists to make my niche longer? Or how are the long niches done?
Here in the last couple years i haven't been placing DensSheild on the back wall of the nitch. I have been using fiber matt material and red grard. It makes the nitch 1/2 deeper. I seal everything like Sal does his water proofing. Just though i would share that with you.
The choice for green plasterboard over hardibacker is correct, I usually skim with grey thinset with added SBR, internal waterproofing admix, as we don't have redgaurd hear. If it's a wet room or around the niche.then a rubberised tanking layer is best. Ardex tanking kits only need a 90min drying time but extra cost.
Hey mate nice job, just wondering, would it be a better idea to overlap the the inside niche tile over the wall tile? that way the grout joint isn't exposed to, to much water.
Keep up the good work 👍
i agree
Have a 1940 house with NO wall insulation. 2x8 outside wall framing only. I made sure there is a thick attack blanket wherever I have access. Our West Washington weather is not usually warm or extremely cold. 40’s and 50’s wet winters. We have no problems with keeping the house warm. We are protected from three of the four usual wind directions. A rare North wind does effect our comfort and ability to keep the house super warm. The gas bills are very reasonable. We have modern windows, but the NO wall insulation does not seem to matter much. I doubt removing a foot of wall insulation would make much of any difference in any home unless there was a lot of very cold wind. We also have radiant heat that is very nice. Love the way our house stays warm but breathes. Had a well insulated stuffy modern forced air heated house too. Would never want that stuffy, loud, dry heat again. This house that breathes is much more comfortable overall.
I believe “Sawzall” is the specific brand name for Milwaukee’s recip saw, and since they were the inventor of it, it gets to be the generic term for recip saws of all brands as well.
Since it's a load bearing wall, framing needed jacks and a header. You're right about the board you use. In the end it's the waterproofing process what matters.
For the header: So you would cut the two vertical studs in the center another 1 1/2” or 3 1/2? Would it go flat against top and bottom or would you stand it up.
For the Jack: would this go both top and bottom? Along the two side studs?
Thanks!!
Hey Bob,
Would you recommend installing a nitche on the shower wall that is an exterior wall ? My concern is would impact the R factor of tue installation due to the compression . It is a 2x6 wall
Probably 8 of the 10 niches I do are always going to be exterior wall.... would that matter in Alaska or Canada, probably most certainly, but where I'm at in Georgia is fairly temperate. Plus sheet rock & tile cover the siding plus ambient temp inside.
i will prefer to use cement board intead of green drywall and then red gard . you shouldnt put tiles bigger than 7x7 inches over drywall
Why... don't make a statement and then not explain it
StarrTile Because cement board is not recommended for areas that are very wet. There is no organic matter that will promote mold, rot, shrinkage, or decomposition in cement board. Thus, while the cement board will not expand from water exposure, it will seep to the studs. This is why you use a moisture barrier or sealant like RedGard or Laticrete. This is an industry de facto practice. The guy is correct.
In NC it's generally a rule of thumb that on a wall with tile over 8x8 inches spanning the height of 18 inches (basically anything bigger than a backsplash over a counter top) needs to have backerboard in place of drywall simply due to weight issues and preventing the wall from bowing later down the road. This is especially pushed in the case of showers. Like I said its rule of thumb, not forced by code. But for the cost comparison of material, and the overall guarantee of reliability I have no idea as to why anyone would use drywall instead of backerboard. Especially in a shower. I hear you mention tearing out a lot of showers, well so have I. The worst ones I've tore out were always glued over drywall because people cut corners. But this is just my experiences. One thing I've learned is everyone does it differently, and everyone believes the way they do it is the right way. So it really just boils down to weather or not your way eventually fails. If it's doesn't continue on my friend. But in my most humblest opinion I would never put drywall in a shower.
@PaniK yep, I have taken out every backerboard out there and have not seen one that does not get moldy and mildewy, even some of it has been weak before because of the years of saturation
@@roberthelmick9574 Remember the RULE OF THUMB 50 years ago with the 2 inch mortar packed bathroom floors and wire mesh, and then install the little mosaic tiles. Can't tell you how many of these floors I demo and replace, always water damage and failure to the subfloor, these floors retained water, Redguard is becoming the answer to water damage issues, it's not perfect, but it has lasting qualities.
Do you think a nitch could be lighted from behind glass tile? If so, how would you do it? Just thought it would be a challenge to you, and depending on your answer, I may try to do it in my upcoming bathroom remodel. Thanks for you videos. Learned a lot.
Actually it has been done already with LED lights, love the idea and can't wait for a customer to give me the approval to do one of these
ua-cam.com/video/UYIoSt7gQ1E/v-deo.html
Is that a load bearing wall? maybe needed to double up top 2x4?
Great video! What is better way to measure from floor to the bottom of the niche and arrive with tiles at the right point? Like you did.
Really it is hit-and-miss unless you cut out the niche after you've already started setting the tile...
I've never been one that tries to match up my grout lines to where the niche is at, if it happens then great if it doesn't then no big deal to me
@@StarrTile That's right.
So you cut a load bearing wall and don’t brace it back other than that one little 2x4?
Very good teacher... Thanks for sharing it
Bob
I am adding a niche to a tub/shower and the wall i want to put the niche in backs up to a 2nd bathroom wall that currently has a 1 piece tub/shower fiberglass unit(tub and wall). Suggestions on how to mount the back wall of the niche? Also, please keep in mind eventually the other bathroom will get gutted and will be replaced with shower only tiled walls. So whatever installation i do for this niche back wall would have to survive or double as a backing in that bathroom as well.
Thanks in advance
you do great work. Cant say you cant. But Bro... Please stop using green board in showers. Even if Red Guard or the best tropical membrane. Its no good, as skilled as you are you should know this. This isnt a hate comment, Love tha work. But ugh.. No more green board in showers.
Who cares if he used regular drywall, its being waterproofed anyway... That's like saying not to use plywood on a subfloor and then use a shower liner on top because the plywood will soak up water..... Water will never hit the plywood OR the drywall so it's fine.
Stop buying into cement board, that's what they want you to do, BUY NEW PRODUCT, keep buying the NEW THING! It's perfectly fine to use greenboard when you prep it correctly. Stop it. Cement board is NOT NEEDED!
Best guy doing showers on you tube by far
I live in southeast Kentucky and the only problem I've ever ran into putting the nooks on the exterior walls is if happens to be the side of the house that takes all the wind in late winter when it's really really cold the tile actually sweats I've insolated um and still have the same problem but if sealed properly the extra moisture in the winter is not an issue
oh yeah and I never use green board on my surrounds dude you know better aqua seal or right gaurd I don't care how much of that junk you use it still picks up more moisture than any Hardy backer would and later in the years the surround will have issues and when you glue your backer onto the wall spend the couple extra bucks on liquid nails!!!
Love you videos super informative, one question do you recommend getting your supply's from a construction supply store or do aces like Home Depot have enough selection to do quality shower remodel
Been watching your videos. Great work! I'm putting in a 70" wide niche that runs across 3 studs on an exterior wall. Is reinforcing with a metal frame overkill? Or shall i use two 2x4's (4" vertical) to strengthen it? Instead of the 2x4 laying flat. Thanks in advanced
I just installed my shower niche on an exterior wall, using silicone like you did to secure the back piece of hardier board to the exterior wall piece. I live in Texas, only a month or so of cold weather but I’ve been reading that I shouldn’t have put it on the exterior.. I’m nervous now, do you think it’ll be okay?
Even a hard freeze in a very cold area would not affect anything... you have siding, insulation, and more importantly you have ambient temperature which is basically what your thermostat is on... in the winter time mine has it about 80 🤣
I always pitch my lower shelf 2×4 at an angle that way I don't have to fool with angle the tile what do you think?
I want all stubs/scabs to be flush...then slant the tile slightly, but that's just me.
Thanks for that info. I went out and read the specs on the Denshield. It's got to make you smile. Drywall with waterproofing on it. Go figure. I'll be spreading the Redgarding tomorrow. I use that extensively , works that's all that matters. Later
Exactly what i needed for a wide nitche
Couldn't you cut the bottom stud for the "niche" at a slight angle for the shelf slope?...unless I missed you do that part already.
Yes you could do that, I don't
you could also achieve that slope with the mud/tile
I heard slope on 2×4 is best.i use alot of schluter trim.you need lots mud for build up and it settles onernight
@@brianmeredith7324 mix your mud thick and get to it early in your tile setting that day so before you leave u obviousy have time to double check it is exactly how u want it so you can stack on it and build the rest of the tile around the niche flush.
I did a shower like that in a basement but used 2x6 so the recess is deeper, I used redguard and weed mat non woven fabric for reinforcing, it wets out easier and bends into corners better than fiberglass and it's much cheaper. Just wondering why you bother to mud the joints in the green board? I just redguard some fiberglass joint tape into it and do an extra coat before tiling.
I would love to help you with taking videos so I can soak up all your knowledge at the same time!
Is there any leaks to this pj, im seriously curious, cause there's no backer used
Thank you for your help
do you still need paper barrier or red guard helps a lot
Don't know if this was already answered but did you use green board on the curb as well?
No...cement board or a composite for curb and benches
When I tore out my bath tub I noticed it had regular drywall behind the tile with no water damage, it appears to have some sort of coating on it as well, your fine with the green board imo.
If that's a load bearing wall, shouldn't it be built more like a window? with jack posts and whatnot?
Yes...in theory. One stud cut with horizontal support sure is better than most I see that are twisted and warping and pulled away from bottom plate....
So there is that
Don't waste your time getting top and bottom boards same distance apart on both ends until you have *first* leveled the bottom board and fastened it in place.
Agree, wasted step.
Just curious, if the water "happened" to get through the grout and down to the shelf, you said the water would sit and stagnate. Why don't you go ahead and make the bottom, on a slope, pre-redgard(maybe even pre-wallboard)? That way there would be no water ever to sit and stagnate. Although it would go down the wall behind the tile/thinset and possibly deteriorate the thinset and tile starting fall off?? Damn.... a love hate relationship with water..
Nice! Are you using tape any kind on the seams and is that drywall mud or thinset?
I'm curious on that too.
Whenever I can, I try to talk my clients out of Shower Niches. I suggest, were Possible, a Knee wall as an alternative, with a storage shelf (1 or 2) on the Shower side. That avoids the ugly large Plastic (Soap/Shampoo/etc.) bottles taking away from the beauty of the Tiled Shower. Most agree! JMO
I enjoy your videos and I've learn from them, but here in the Bay area California, I don't know any contractor that still using green board for showers, all it takes it's one little cut trough the paper layer and game over, we float for the most part or hardy backer+red guard
Using Redgard makes the type of backer irrelevant... anyway I've never torn out a shower where the walls were wet or damaged, only at the bottom where guys will set their wall board first and then pour their pan, that causes damage, not because your walls have green board or any other board on them
@@StarrTile, Makes sense!, I guess that works very good if you know what you're doing,
Looking to have my shower tiled. It is going to be about 60 W X 36 D. Where is a good place to look for ideas on the layout or look of the tile?
Pinterest
I use the Schluter premade niches and cut them in half if need be. I can band over the cut and keep my lifetime warranty without compromising the waterproofing.
Hey. I've enjoyed watching your videos, especially the showers you do. I have a question about shower niche's. I have a walk in/stand alone shower in my basement. The overall appearance and tile work is good, not great but the one eyesore that's been killing me is the niche's. Whoever did the shower didn't use bullnose tiles and the border or edges of the shelves just look sloppy. Without removing the existing tile, is there any type of molding or something like that that I could use to kind of border the edges of the niche? I don't really want to go overboard with the shower down there as it is seldom used but at the same time, the unfinished edges just aggravate me. Please let me know if there is something I can get to make it look better that won't cost me an arm and a leg!
Thank you
Billy H.
+Vedder10VS I have no idea what you could use....taking out the tile around it & replacing with bullnose seems the way to go. Tile stores sometimes have someone that will make bullnose from tile you bring them if you can't find a good match.
+StarrTile Thanks for the reply. I'll deal with it for now and maybe someday down the road i'll get it fixed.
thanks again for your response and thanks for making great videos as well.
Thanks for the niche measurements they will be very helpful. I love your vides and advise. I just started to put 1/2' Harde backer board up.
Enjoy watching your videos so informative
Thank you, much appreciated
I just wanna know if that’s regular drywall mud or thinset on the seams.. and if you used tape, which tape is best? Ive used a cement board mesh tape and thinset the seams on drywall before
If I'm using green board then it would be mud, if I'm using cement board it would be thinset, and no I do not use tape because my waterproofer is a crack preventer as well and that's what tape would do... if you wanted to use tape and a waterproofer then by all means but it's a bit redundant
@@StarrTile that makes sense. I think I’ll do the same as you do from now on. Thank you for your response and for your detailed videos. God bless
First off let say that your video was very informative however I looking at doing a 12 by 36 niche. My problem is the wall backs up to my dining room which is only drywall can I glue the hardy board or green backer board to the dry wall and still get the same results. And will I have a problem cutting three studs and putting in a header and footer on the wall.
+mark ashby Yes you can glue whatever backerboard straight to the sheetrock. Cutting the studs is a non-issue, as I mentioned there are thousands of things keeping your house together, taking out any dozen will have no effect unless it were a load bearing wall...anyway you'll be re-shoring what you took out.
Any issue with installing a Niche above an electrical outlet? My long wall shares electrical for the kitchen on the other side and there's an outlet just below where I'm thinking.
thanks for answering the questions that I didn't ask although I disagree with you on some points. good job
great vid Bob. following ur direction to a Tee. except im using cement instead of green board.
Thank you sir, you can use whatever backer you want to but in the end I'm assuming you're waterproofing it so there by canceling out the backer board makeup, hope it turns out well
Thanks for explaining reasoning and being awesome!
Are you using 1/2" cbu on your walls and do you use the same size for the inside of the niche? Just wondering how much depth is left after the cbu the thinset and the tile? I want to add a niche like yours but just wondering if there is enough depth is i use the cbu on the back. Don't know if i can use kerdi membrane instead so that it is deeper.
Yes 1/2'' of your choosing. Final shelf depth is about 4 1/2''....a membrane could work as you describe but you'll only gain another 1/2''
are the cut tiles around the edge (bullnoses) smooth edged that you made or from the outside edges of the tiles used on the wall that were just cut into small pieces or did you do or use something special to make a nice finished edge?
There is a wet saw blade specifically made to cut bullnose, it is very expensive and I do not own one, so I take the field tile to a guy who does it for me
Framing inspector will require a header assembly, best to get that in before you go further otherwise your creating lots of extra work.
That was my immediate thought, too. It’s like cutting out a window in a structural wall. You gotta do something, you can’t just slap a couple of horizontal boards in there and call it good. That niche has no load bearing capacity.
Very nice and detailed but Reciprocating saw but skill saw? Skill saw is brand name as is sawsall. It’s actually a Circular saw? Lol
Would 1/4” concrete board be a good backer board for the niche? At 3 and a 1/2 “ niche, every bit of space you can salvage helps
Yeah that would work as long as it's waterproof well
What type of tile was used on this project?
Thanks Bob, that was awesome
Wouldn’t you want the bottom stud to slope down a little outwards so that any water that gets in there doesn’t get trap on the surface?
Yes bottom stud, wallboard or tile...I prefer sloping the tile
Unfortunately you cannot do this up in ft mcmurray because we hit temps of -50 c
Excellent video thanks! You sounded extremely nervous.
Pretend it's a window... How would you frame it?
Yes.... I understand the point you're trying to make.
PPL are free to do king jack cripple header for a niche if they feel it relieves a problem, I'm not one of those.
I have knocked you but agree on your niche great job. I would do diff but I can't knock your niche
What are your thoughts on mud floating the walls?
I think it's a lot of extra work for very little return. Yes your walls will be true and Plumb, but the rest of your house isn't and never will be. In the turn of the century when Craftsman took pride in their work and houses were built right then floating had a purpose but if you handed them backerboard I'm sure they would be appreciative... all they could do was float because that's all they had
Maybe the multy tool would work best to cut the last of the 2x4
Very Beautiful Work !
Hello StarrTile, The back of the niche in my case is the back side of the room behind the shower. [Similar to your board at 15:35, instead of the OSB it would be the backside of the drywall in the other room, which is green board, but just the rear side of it which is tanish/gray. If redgard'ed, is this a likely acceptable approach?
So with every Niche that I build, regardless of what's behind it I always put a secondary piece of sheetrock in, a lot of caulking will hold it in and then you trim it out on the top bottom and sides with sheetrock.
And BTW, thank you so much for your support on Patreon 👍👌
@@StarrTile Got it, thank you for the quick response. In summary your layers from rear to front would be OSB, caulk, green board, water proofing (3 or so layers of RedGard), thinset then tile. What's left after the build up? Doesn't that take up about 2 inches of a 4 inch wall?
@@tillmansr2002 sorry, the osb is your exterior wall...caulk in greenboard to that, only 1/2" there, but that's made up from 1/2" greenboard on walls...then redgard, thinset and tile, so you only come off back wall maybe 1/2" or 3/4"...but outside wall has redgard, thinset and tile too so bump out is negligible. Finished Shelf of niche is generally 4" or close.