0:10 Introduction - When the Church is being attacked “I deem it unreasonable to keep silence” 1:40 St. John knows the teaching of the Church and exclaims we must not forsake Her ancient tradition 2:55 St. John’s prayer and stance in setting forth the Orthodox teaching on icons 4:08 St. John begins his defense of icons; there is one God Whose Son became flesh, the invisible became visible 7:15 Passages from Scripture that command no graven images lest idolatry ensue 8:47 More passages from Scripture showing that nothing is to be adored in the way God is to be adored 10:16 The newness of life in Christ, the fulfillment of the law in Christ, no longer means images are such a stumbling block to worship of God alone. Fear not to depict Christ and His saints in icons. 13:10 Trinitarion theology; the Father and Son equal in every way except one 13:58 God has ordained that the intangible is made known through that which we can see 17:11 The images are of two kinds: words written down or material images. Either reject the authority of God Who willed them to be made or esteem them as is fitting. 18:10 The degrees of worship: 1) adoration which we offer to God alone 2) the honor we offer the friends of God, for the sake of God 3) the respect as we see with Abraham and the sons of Nahor. 19:30 God allows nothing else to be worshiped yet commands cherubim and other images to overshadow the mercy seat, calling us to worship Him through created matter 21:43 “I do not worship matter; I worship the Creator of matter who became matter for my sake, who willed to take His abode in matter; who worked out my salvation through matter. Never will I cease honoring the matter which wrought my salvation!” 23:28 “Either do away with the honor and veneration these things deserve, or accept the tradition of the Church and the veneration of images.” 24:05 If you despise the command to make images, consider the words in Exodus 31:1-6 and Exodus 35:4-10 26:44 The images worthy of God “sanctify the noblest of the senses, which is that of sight.” 28:08 If God ordered twelve stones to be taken from the Jordan after Israel passed through, shall we not make images of Christ and His saving passion? 29:06 It is utter foolishness to make images of Christ and not of His saints, for he says, “I will glorify those who glorify Me” (1 Sam 2:30). We honor the saints who participate in God by grace. 31:30 On the images God commanded David and Soloman to make in the temple, and how depicting the saints is far greater 33:04 “Shall we strip [the saints] of the glory given them by the Church? What audacity! What effrontery of mind, to fight with God, refusing to follow His commands!” 37:00 “We are not under the law but under grace…fed on solid food, not that which leads to idolatry.” 38:08 Christians have seen God in human form. Peter’s shadow and Paul’s handkerchief healed and put demons to flight. Therefore, we glorify the saints in material images. 39:12 St. Basil the Great teaches that the tradition of the Church is passed down both orally and in writing and “both sources have equal power to lead us to righteousness.” 41:03 “Pagans make images of demons which they address as gods, but we make images of God incarnate, and of his servants and friends, and with them we drive away the demonic hosts.” 41:45 St. John teaches that the words against icons from St. Epiphanius are “fictitious and inauthentic.” Furthermore, “one exception cannot be a law for the Church…” 43:02 it is not forbidden to bow down before material things unless those things are made by inspiration of the devil 43:23 “The former holy things, the tent, and everything therein were made by hands, and no one can deny that they were venerated.”
Perhaps Orthodox who read the comments from the iconoclast below, or those that might follow, might stand in prayer before an icon that best seems to suit the situation, perhaps from the Sunday of the Triumph of Orthodoxy, or of St. John Damascene, of course, or whomever one chooses, and pray for them and all those who just can't grasp what St. John is saying.. I doubt that any Orthodox are dissuaded. We have already crossed that bridge and are grateful to have done so. We venerate those who so clearly have triumphed and are now able to pray for us in ways beyond our understanding here in the Church as it suffers.. I won't answer the disparaging comments. I won't mention the story of Prince Abgar and the Icon Not Made with Hands.. But my mind always returns to it in these situations.. Glory to God!
How convenient you published this in light of the raging Truglia-Ortland "debate"... nice work as usual, and its amazing to see how your thumbnails have exploded visually!! (Maybe you can teach me your graphic art secret! ) ☦
"NO ONE COULD DESCRIBE THE WORD OF THE FATHER, BUT WHEN HE TOOK FLESH FROM THEE, O, THEOTOKOS, HE ACCEPTED TO BE DESCRIBED, AND RESTORED THE FALLEN IMAGE TO ITS FORMER PLACE, BY UNITING IT TO DIVINE BEAUTY. WE ACCEPT AND PROCLAIM OUR SALVATION IN WORD AND IMAGES...!!". From the Sunday of the Triumph of Orthodoxy..
I borrowed and qouted, using many of these same words, and from the rest of the Holy God-Bearing Fathers in the Philokalia and the Holy Elders and stories of the Holy Great Cloud of Wittnesses, the Martyrs of our Holy Church, and wrote a letter, an apology to my former parish and to the local priests during the begining of the compromised plandamic lukewarmness that was found caught inin the blasphemous web of the enemy to the Church. It is a blessing to hear this also again as I travel. Lord have mercy on us, as many we used the mask in the Holy Temple of God as a form of false idolatry and so forth, in a way creating an iconoclastic world again by coving our pitiful face, which in made in the likeness of the Lord.
Glory be to The One God. He is The First and The Last. He is The Manifest One, yet He is The Hidden One. God is The Eternal. He beget not, nor was he begotten, and there is none comparable unto Him. ⚘️
@@OrthodoxWisdom No. I see no problem, but at the same time we now that Jesus was born poor, so that must mean that this representation of him must likewise have a special theological message to consider. I think we must often miss such things. There is a richness in what the icons represent. An aspect of Christ to consider.
By the way. You have a great channel. It's extremely useful to get to have the knowledge and insight's of the Saints without having to order the material online.
Deuteronomy 4 v 16 " lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female". Acts 17 v 29 " forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art or man's device". Twist it anyway you want to, but its very clear.
Explain the Angels on the Ark. No jesus fish for you proestant since its a likeness of a something in the waters beneath the earth if your going to be consistent.
@@NavelOrangeGazer first of all, God gave a pattern to Moses to follow. Nobody prayed to the ark or the cherubims or the candlestick. In fact, only the high priest was allowed to enter the holiest of holies. Most israelites probably never even saw it. Possibly when transporting around the wilderness. Tho it was probably covered and only Levites could handle these things. The fish symbol is not the symbol of Christianity. Some people do use it. But no ones bows unto it, or prays to it or thru it. If they did, that would be idolatry. Making a graven image, and bowing to it, praying to it or thru it, is the very definition of idolatry. No one is particularly bothered by stain glassed windows or the like. Unless someone is praying to it. But, you would also have to understand, that these are only an artists impression of who they think saints may have looked like. Catholics have white european Marys, black Marys and asian Marys. Which one is she??? And who said to pray to Mary anyway??? And the same applies to Jesus. How do you know what he looked like? So its likely, that these images dont even replicate his appearance. Jesus is the image of the invisible GOD. Being an image, means he is not the original. Jesus is an image of Gods righteousness, not his physical appearance. Thats why its forbidden to make an image of GOD. No physical image ( statue) can reflect the glory of God.
Go ahead and reject the man but at least deal honestly with his arguments and examination of Scripture. Otherwise, go somewhere else to try and convert people to your flavor of Protestantism.
Sorry dude, the early church was against veneration of Icons. All the examples you gave us is just the same way muslims argue “That’s a weak hadith” looking argument. How you deal with the lack of patristic support ? How you deal with the forgeries they made up to support all of this ? How you deal with the fact that you are dependent on images and not Jesu Christ? *Nicomedia, and the gates having been forced open, they searched everywhere for an image of the Divinity. The books of the Holy Scriptures were only found, and they were committed to the flames; the utensils and furniture of the church were abandoned to pillage: all was rapine, confusion, tumult. That church, situated on rising ground, was within view of the palace; and Diocletian and Galerius stood, as if on a watchtower, disputing long whether it ought to be set on fire. The sentiment of Diocletian prevailed, who dreaded lest* Now Jesus Christ, The Angel of the Lord appeared multiple times as an image and even ate with Abraham. All this Hindu explanation of Icons and worshipping matter falls apart.
0:10 Introduction - When the Church is being attacked “I deem it unreasonable to keep silence”
1:40 St. John knows the teaching of the Church and exclaims we must not forsake Her ancient tradition
2:55 St. John’s prayer and stance in setting forth the Orthodox teaching on icons
4:08 St. John begins his defense of icons; there is one God Whose Son became flesh, the invisible became visible
7:15 Passages from Scripture that command no graven images lest idolatry ensue
8:47 More passages from Scripture showing that nothing is to be adored in the way God is to be adored
10:16 The newness of life in Christ, the fulfillment of the law in Christ, no longer means images are such a stumbling block to worship of God alone. Fear not to depict Christ and His saints in icons.
13:10 Trinitarion theology; the Father and Son equal in every way except one
13:58 God has ordained that the intangible is made known through that which we can see
17:11 The images are of two kinds: words written down or material images. Either reject the authority of God Who willed them to be made or esteem them as is fitting.
18:10 The degrees of worship: 1) adoration which we offer to God alone 2) the honor we offer the friends of God, for the sake of God 3) the respect as we see with Abraham and the sons of Nahor.
19:30 God allows nothing else to be worshiped yet commands cherubim and other images to overshadow the mercy seat, calling us to worship Him through created matter
21:43 “I do not worship matter; I worship the Creator of matter who became matter for my sake, who willed to take His abode in matter; who worked out my salvation through matter. Never will I cease honoring the matter which wrought my salvation!”
23:28 “Either do away with the honor and veneration these things deserve, or accept the tradition of the Church and the veneration of images.”
24:05 If you despise the command to make images, consider the words in Exodus 31:1-6 and Exodus 35:4-10
26:44 The images worthy of God “sanctify the noblest of the senses, which is that of sight.”
28:08 If God ordered twelve stones to be taken from the Jordan after Israel passed through, shall we not make images of Christ and His saving passion?
29:06 It is utter foolishness to make images of Christ and not of His saints, for he says, “I will glorify those who glorify Me” (1 Sam 2:30). We honor the saints who participate in God by grace.
31:30 On the images God commanded David and Soloman to make in the temple, and how depicting the saints is far greater
33:04 “Shall we strip [the saints] of the glory given them by the Church? What audacity! What effrontery of mind, to fight with God, refusing to follow His commands!”
37:00 “We are not under the law but under grace…fed on solid food, not that which leads to idolatry.”
38:08 Christians have seen God in human form. Peter’s shadow and Paul’s handkerchief healed and put demons to flight. Therefore, we glorify the saints in material images.
39:12 St. Basil the Great teaches that the tradition of the Church is passed down both orally and in writing and “both sources have equal power to lead us to righteousness.”
41:03 “Pagans make images of demons which they address as gods, but we make images of God incarnate, and of his servants and friends, and with them we drive away the demonic hosts.”
41:45 St. John teaches that the words against icons from St. Epiphanius are “fictitious and inauthentic.” Furthermore, “one exception cannot be a law for the Church…”
43:02 it is not forbidden to bow down before material things unless those things are made by inspiration of the devil
43:23 “The former holy things, the tent, and everything therein were made by hands, and no one can deny that they were venerated.”
Absolutely devastating to iconoclasts! Pray for us holy St John Of Damascus🙏🏻
Always grateful for this channel!
Perhaps Orthodox who read the comments from the iconoclast below, or those that might follow, might stand in prayer before an icon that best seems to suit the situation, perhaps from the Sunday of the Triumph of Orthodoxy, or of St. John Damascene, of course, or whomever one chooses, and pray for them and all those who just can't grasp what St. John is saying.. I doubt that any Orthodox are dissuaded. We have already crossed that bridge and are grateful to have done so.
We venerate those who so clearly have triumphed and are now able to pray for us in ways beyond our understanding here in the Church as it suffers..
I won't answer the disparaging comments. I won't mention the story of Prince Abgar and the Icon Not Made with Hands..
But my mind always returns to it in these situations..
Glory to God!
O +Saint John of Damascus, pray to GOD for us all
+Through the prayers of our Holy Father's LORD JESUS CHRIST OUR GOD have mercy on us and save us
How convenient you published this in light of the raging Truglia-Ortland "debate"... nice work as usual, and its amazing to see how your thumbnails have exploded visually!! (Maybe you can teach me your graphic art secret! ) ☦
"NO ONE COULD DESCRIBE THE WORD OF THE FATHER, BUT WHEN HE TOOK FLESH FROM THEE, O, THEOTOKOS, HE ACCEPTED TO BE DESCRIBED, AND RESTORED THE FALLEN IMAGE TO ITS FORMER PLACE, BY UNITING IT TO DIVINE BEAUTY.
WE ACCEPT AND PROCLAIM OUR SALVATION IN WORD AND IMAGES...!!".
From the Sunday of the Triumph of Orthodoxy..
Thank you so much for all that you do! ☦️🙏🏻
Great upload, loved listening to this today. Glory to God for you're uploads!
Thank you so much! Please upload the second and third volume! ☦️
Amen thank you for sharing
I borrowed and qouted, using many of these same words, and from the rest of the Holy God-Bearing Fathers in the Philokalia and the Holy Elders and stories of the Holy Great Cloud of Wittnesses, the Martyrs of our Holy Church, and wrote a letter, an apology to my former parish and to the local priests during the begining of the compromised plandamic lukewarmness that was found caught inin the blasphemous web of the enemy to the Church. It is a blessing to hear this also again as I travel. Lord have mercy on us, as many we used the mask in the Holy Temple of God as a form of false idolatry and so forth, in a way creating an iconoclastic world again by coving our pitiful face, which in made in the likeness of the Lord.
O Lord soften and warm our hard and cold hearts, towards desiring sincere repentance above all earthly things and more than life!
Walking the path of the Saints. This sums it up for me. 21:57
Glory be to The One God.
He is The First and The Last.
He is The Manifest One, yet He is The Hidden One.
God is The Eternal.
He beget not, nor was he begotten, and there is none comparable unto Him.
⚘️
Very good
Amen🙏🏻
Couldn’t agree more.
Have you recorded the other two Treatisies?
No I have not. I don’t currently have plans to. Maybe one day.
Why is Jesus Christ depicted as wareing orange robes?
I’ve never wondered about this. Is there a problem you see with him as a boy wearing orange?
@@OrthodoxWisdom No. I see no problem, but at the same time we now that Jesus was born poor, so that must mean that this representation of him must likewise have a special theological message to consider. I think we must often miss such things. There is a richness in what the icons represent. An aspect of Christ to consider.
By the way. You have a great channel. It's extremely useful to get to have the knowledge and insight's of the Saints without having to order the material online.
☦️☦️☦️
Deuteronomy 4 v 16 " lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female".
Acts 17 v 29 " forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art or man's device".
Twist it anyway you want to, but its very clear.
Explain the Angels on the Ark.
No jesus fish for you proestant since its a likeness of a something in the waters beneath the earth if your going to be consistent.
St. John of Damascus addresses this in the text and he is very clear about the true meaning and application in the New Covenant
@@NavelOrangeGazer first of all, God gave a pattern to Moses to follow. Nobody prayed to the ark or the cherubims or the candlestick. In fact, only the high priest was allowed to enter the holiest of holies. Most israelites probably never even saw it. Possibly when transporting around the wilderness. Tho it was probably covered and only Levites could handle these things.
The fish symbol is not the symbol of Christianity. Some people do use it. But no ones bows unto it, or prays to it or thru it. If they did, that would be idolatry.
Making a graven image, and bowing to it, praying to it or thru it, is the very definition of idolatry.
No one is particularly bothered by stain glassed windows or the like. Unless someone is praying to it. But, you would also have to understand, that these are only an artists impression of who they think saints may have looked like. Catholics have white european Marys, black Marys and asian Marys. Which one is she??? And who said to pray to Mary anyway??? And the same applies to Jesus. How do you know what he looked like? So its likely, that these images dont even replicate his appearance.
Jesus is the image of the invisible GOD. Being an image, means he is not the original. Jesus is an image of Gods righteousness, not his physical appearance. Thats why its forbidden to make an image of GOD. No physical image ( statue) can reflect the glory of God.
@@OrthodoxWisdom who is st john of damascus????
Thats not scripture.
Or else, I'll quote st thomas of tibet.
Go ahead and reject the man but at least deal honestly with his arguments and examination of Scripture. Otherwise, go somewhere else to try and convert people to your flavor of Protestantism.
Sorry dude, the early church was against veneration of Icons.
All the examples you gave us is just the same way muslims argue “That’s a weak hadith” looking argument.
How you deal with the lack of patristic support ? How you deal with the forgeries they made up to support all of this ? How you deal with the fact that you are dependent on images and not Jesu Christ?
*Nicomedia, and the gates having been forced open, they searched everywhere for an image of the Divinity. The books of the Holy Scriptures were only found, and they were committed to the flames; the utensils and furniture of the church were abandoned to pillage: all was rapine, confusion, tumult. That church, situated on rising ground, was within view of the palace; and Diocletian and Galerius stood, as if on a watchtower, disputing long whether it ought to be set on fire. The sentiment of Diocletian prevailed, who dreaded lest*
Now Jesus Christ, The Angel of the Lord appeared multiple times as an image and even ate with Abraham.
All this Hindu explanation of Icons and worshipping matter falls apart.
We have nothing to do with Hindus, that statement betrays the stupidity of your non arguments. You have no sources for your claims.