QBZ191 - Update / Deep dive [CHECK PINNED COMMENT FOR UPDATES]
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- I highly recommend that you watch my previous QBZ191 video first, before watching this one.
Previous video: • A comprehensive look a...
TABLE OF CONTENTS:
0:00 - INTRODUCTION
1:07 - DISCLAIMERS
1:53 - 1. CORRECTION OF MINOR MISTAKES AND ADDITIONAL DETAILS
2:02 - 1a. Designations
2:25 - 1b. Muzzle devices
2:43 - 1c. Bolt release
3:09 - 1d. Magazine release
3:19 - 1e. Magazine
4:01 - 1f. QMK171A scope
5:20 - 1g. DMR scope
6:34 - 1h. IR5118 thermal scope
7:21 - 1k. Cleaning kit
8:01 - 1l. Round counter
8:22 - 1m. Vertical foregrip
8:51 - 2. PATENT DOCUMENTS
9:13 - 2a. Front sight
10:08 - 2b. Rear sight
11:38 - 2c. Handguard reinforcement sleeve (Rifle & Carbine)
13:12 - 2d. DMR Handguard
13:49 - 2e. Gas system overview
14:15 - 2f. Single-port gas block
16:34 - 2g. Dual-port gas block
18:00 - 2h. DMR gas block
18:35 - 2k. Firing pin retaining pin
20:49 - 2l. Bolt carrier
21:14 - 2m. Anti pre-engagement mechanism
23:38 - 2n. Elongated cam slot
24:55 - 2o. Dual oblique extractor springs
26:27 - 2p. Extractor pin
26:57 - 2q. Bolt head
27:38 - 2r. Fire control group
31:51 - CONCLUSIONS
SOURCE LIST:
[1] www.bilibili.com/video/BV1rb4...
[2] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[3] www.patentguru.com/cn/CN21077...
[4] www.patentguru.com/cn/CN11332...
[5] www.patentguru.com/cn/CN11142...
[6] www.patentguru.com/cn/CN21053...
[7] weibo.com/tv/show/1034:466660...
[8] www.bilibili.com/video/BV1MD4...
[9] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[10] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[11] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[12] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[13] • 《经济半小时》 “轻”装上阵的秘密 2019...
[14] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[15] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[16] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[17] www.patentguru.com/CN305949531S
[18] pewpewpew.work/china/rifle/qbz...
[19] ddlaser.tezhongzhuangbei.com/...
[20] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/pl...
[21] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[22] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/pl...
[23] weibo.com/p/1005056440621917/...
[24] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[26] My Dress-up Darling - Season 1 Episode 2
[27] www.patentguru.com/cn/CN20884...
[28] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[29] pewpewpew.work/china/sr/qbu88/...
[30] gearkr.com/?p=60121
[31] www.bilibili.com/video/BV1EA4...
[32] www.springfield-armory.com/he...
[33] tv.cctv.com/2021/10/23/VIDEti...
[34] • New Springfield Armory...
[35] wantubizhi.com/pic/95-1%E7%9E...
[36] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[37] www.bilibili.com/video/BV1rf4...
[38] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/qb...
[39] pewpewpew.work/china/rifle/qbz...
[40] www.patentguru.com/cn/CN10732...
[41] www.patentguru.com/cn/CN20713...
[42] World of Guns
[43] www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...
[44] / 1421046463459647498
[45] www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...
[46] • Enhanced AR/M16/M4 Bol...
[47] www.patentguru.com/US20220110...
[48] www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/pl...
[49] www.patentguru.com/cn/CN20828...
[50] • How an AK 47 works
[51] www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...
[52] www.recoilweb.com/cz-bren-805...
[53] • 【2019新枪】阅兵步枪 Norinco Q...
[54] • SCP Containment Breach...
[55] www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...
[56] www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...
[57] www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Fb4...
[58] m.weibo.cn/detail/47050390443... - Наука та технологія
--- FOLLOW UP ---
I will edit this pinned comment as more info comes out, or as I want to update my analysis.
A point I wanted to make about the elongated cam track at 23:53, that didn't come across as clearly as I desired, is that this cam track is very appropriate for piston-operated weapons. As I said at 24:09 in the video, in piston guns, the gases act on the bolt carrier earlier than in DI guns, and at a higher pressure. This means that the bolt carrier starts moving earlier in piston guns, and at a higher initial velocity. So the cam track on the QBZ191's bolt carrier is elongated compared to DI AR-15s to compensate for this earlier and faster motion, to ensure that the bolt does not unlock too early.
Another detail that I missed about the dual oblique extractor springs at 24:55 is that this design is probably intended to account for the fact that the QBZ191 likely uses steel-cased ammunition, and has higher port pressure (compared to guns with rifle-length gas systems). First, steel-cased ammunition sticks to the chamber more, because it doesn't contract as much as brass after firing. It also has higher friction than brass. Second, the higher port pressure likely causes higher BCG velocity, which makes the extraction process more violent. The improved extractor spring design on the QBZ191 is very appropriate for these operating conditions.
At 29:52, you can see a protrusion on the hammer on the right, above where the hammer spring ends. This protrusion will hit the "floor" of the trigger pack housing when the hammer is being cocked. This stops the hammer from hitting the disconnector, which preserves the life of the disconnector.
*IMPORTANT NOTE: THE ANALYSIS BELOW THIS PARAGRAPH IS LIKELY WRONG, since it's based on the assumption that at 32:04, the hammer is being retained by the trigger hook. But at 29:19, the diagram shows that the hammer is not in contact with the trigger hook yet. Regardless, I won't delete the analysis, since it's an interesting thought. I'll probably make a video about it in the future. With that said, from this point on, the wrong analysis begins:
If you look at 32:04, on the 191 trigger pack, when the hammer is being retained by the trigger hook, you can see that the auto sear is still allowed to engage with the hammer if the BCG is not in battery. This is different from an AK, where if the hammer is being retained by the trigger hook, the auto sear is no longer allowed to catch the hammer. This means that on the 191, when you take the trigger pack out of the receiver, and you accidentally bump the trigger, the auto sear will arrest the hammer, preventing it from striking other components of the trigger pack. However, this auto sear design presents a safety concern. The sequence of events that can lead up to a potential safety incident is as follows:
1 - The shooter is firing the gun, and for some reason, the BCG barely fails to go into battery (say, the bolt carrier is 1 cm from the front-most position). This means that the hammer is now being retained by the trigger hook, and the auto sear is still not tripped.
2 - The shooter - unaware that the weapon is out of battery - pulls the trigger again. The hammer leaves the hook of the trigger, and is now arrested by the auto sear.
3 - The shooter hears a click, discovers that the BCG is out of battery, hits the charging handle to assist the BCG forward.
If those 3 steps happen exactly like that, when the BCG is assisted forward, it will trip the auto sear. And since the trigger hook is no longer engaging the hammer, the gun will discharge. Assuming my analysis is correct, and assuming that I interpreted the patent drawing correctly, this can be a safety issue. My hypothesis as to why the auto sear is designed this way is that the engineers recognized the potential problem of the trigger being bumped while the trigger pack is outside of the receiver, and designed the auto sear to account for that. But in the pursuit of solving that problem, they missed the possibility that the exact sequence of events I described above can cause an accidental discharge. This problem can be easily fixed by modifying the hammer such that it interacts with the auto sear exactly like an AK.
很有趣的分析同志
Well it seems people with certain knowledge could dig a lot through open sources, that's both very impressive and a bit scare to me
I'm confused about the cam track. It suggests that the bolt will unlock first, stay a little bit before extracting the casing. Isn't it better to have the bolt carrier move first before unlocking the bolt?
@@ABCantonese In all of the drawings in this video, the bolt is at the unlocked position. When the bolt is locked, the cam pin will be at the end of the longer portion of the cam track. So when the bolt carrier starts to move rearward, the bolt will stay locked for a while before unlocking right?
the rear most angled knob on the scope is focus adjustment paralax adjustment would be the elevation dial on the top for zeroing
@@seshmarls For the photo at 5:42, the front of the scope is pointed to the left. So the angled knob would be towards the front of the scope and not the rear. If you're talking about diopter focus, I think that would be the ring on the eye piece (i.e. the ring on the far right, near the edge of the photo at 5:42). And if I'm not mistaken, on a first focal plane scope, parallax is adjusted by moving the lens in the objective bell such that the target image matches with the reticle etched in a piece of glass near the objective bell. If so then the parallax turret being placed on the objective bell would be reasonable. I also don't think adjusting parallax together with the elevation dial would make sense. For example, you mount the scope to a rifle 1, and you need to turn the elevation turret, say, 15 clicks, to zero the rifle at a 100m. Then you take the scope to rifle 2, where you need to turn the elevation 45 clicks to zero rifle 2 at 100m. In that example, both rifles will be zeroed at 100m, but the parallax would be completely different, no? All in all, I still think that angled knob is for parallax adjustment. The infinity symbol on that knob supports that hypothesis as well.
Very interested in chinese military gear. I feel like a lot of people just shrug off anything of chinese origin, because of political reasons or other bias. Very nice video.
Taiwan's weapons are even a lot more forgotten despite being a democracy.
Well because *typically* it's copies of western equipment lol. why consider a knockoff when you can see the original.
@@cookie5535 EVERY weapon fielded by modern militaries besides bullpups are copies of either the AR or AK or borrow heavily from the AR or AK platform. China has zero ingenuity or engineering prowess, it's all fkng junk. You can see the differences in production quality with the NAKED EYE. But this rifle is pretty sweet giving them THAT.
@@davidduke3417 absolute worst take I've seen in a long time lmao. if that was the case, something like the HK416 would be considered a """copy""" of the AR-15. educate yourself.
@@wuhaninstituteofvirology5226 What does being democracy have anything to do with weapons?
The gas Port is soo genius in both it's prototype designs, loved that part , simple and good Engineering to solve the overpressure problems
Which makes me all the more confused as to why they went with an AKM style slanted gas port drilling, which is known to erode unevenly more so than 90 degree perpendicular drilling used on new post AK74 series.
Perhaps their idea is that "bugger barrel gas port erosion, we'll control gas at the regulator plug and use that as the primary constrictor" which is facilitated with the pre-expansion chamber.
IMO, however, that's suboptimal. Why catch a problem that could've been alleviated by simple change in gas port hole drilling angle? First, gas ports tend to wear out right when you need to swap out the barrel anyways, and second, once gas port on the barrel erodes, I do not want to be the poor bastard maintaining that gas plug.
Overall, I think this design anomaly is a case of non-gun engineers tasked with making firearms. Automatic guns are a weird fucking machine. It cycles slowly compared to other machines, yet it operates at such high yet quickly dissipating pressure peaks, characteristic of smokeless propellant. In fact, non-gun engineers designing guns have compromised many gun designs in the past. The AI sniper rifle (original "green meanie") had issues with the firing pin and almost was shipped with slanted locking lugs on the bolt precisely because an engineering subcontractor cut corners in such a way that would've been acceptable in any field of engineering other than small arms. The SA80 and INSAS program was similarly plagued with durability and reliability issues when regular mechanical engineers were put into a committees to build rifles.
TL;DR, guns are weird, engineering wise.
@Bhum Brahmavira Do you have any sources for slanted gas port leading to faster erosion? I'm not saying you're lying btw, just genuinely wanting to learn more. I've heard so many things about the change from the slanted to the 90deg gas block on AK platforms that I don't know what's true anymore. Some people, like you, say that it's to alleviate gas port erosion. Some people say that the gas port for 5.45 is smaller than the gas port for 7.62, and drilling with a smaller drill bit at a slanted angle just wrecked drill bits too quickly, then afterwards both 7.62 and 5.45 gas blocks were switched to 90deg to standardize on one casting mould. Some say that it's to avoid having the gas port directly on the land of the rifling.
Also if I'm not wrong, barrel life is a function of how many rounds has gone through the barrel, while gas port life is a function of port pressure (given that the same type of ammunition with the same pressure curve is being used). The gas system length on the qbz191 and 192 is on the shorter side, so the port pressure might be high enough that they're experiencing gas port failure sooner than barrel failure.
Moreover, the regulator has 2 holes, one small hole for normal operation and one large hole for adverse conditions. The barrel gas port must be at least as large as the larger hole, so during normal use, which is gonna be the majority of the time, what controls the amount of gas to the weapon would be the smaller regulator port. So assuming it's true that a 90deg port will alleviate port erosion, and they use it, they must still have a way to reduce pressure before the gas reaches the regulator port.
Another thing is that while I was reading the patents, I noticed that the designers have a lot of gun-specific knowledge. Like on the patent for the prototype FCG, they specifically mention how the two-stage trigger aids in shooting accurately. On the patent for the current FCG, they mentioned how the throw of the selector on their previous weapons (QBZ95, QBZ03, Type 81) were too large, and the clicks weren't tactile enough, so they wanted to design the 191 with a 45-60 degree throw selector. Also, the entity that designed the 191 is the No.208 Research Institute of China Ordnance Industries, which have had a long standing record of designing armaments. I think it's highly unlikely that the designers lacked firearm experience, from both the end user and engineering stand points. There may very well be more reasons behind the slanted gas port on the 191 that are unknown to us.
@Bhum Bhramavira Dude, the gun is built by the 208th Institute, where all of the greatest gun designers of Norinco gather and built the gun based on their personal experiences, contemporary experiments and errors of the past. It is not built in a slum warehouse by sub par non gun engineer like you said.
@@kaungzawtun510 Can you share some insight into the slanted gas port?
@@prfwrx2497 gotta keep the tradition running
One of my favorite firearm videos. I’ve been looking so hard to find extremely in depth videos on the minutia of modern firearms engineering. Really am hoping for more!
I didn't even make it halfway through the video and I realize the titanic amount of effort you put in, great job!
Phenomenal breakdown! Clearly a lot of work has gone into this video. Well done mate
A video I was not expecting! A surprise to be sure but a welcome one. Your openness and honesty in your analysis and in correcting mistakes is most gratifying to see, a rarity on UA-cam.
Lots of new details that really interested me. The gas port design and pre-engagement mechanism being particularly interesting.
Excellent video, my appreciation for the 191 just increased quite a bit.
I would like to thank you for this. It must have taken a lot of work. I found it fascinating, and hope to see more from you. God fortune attend you.
I'm honestly very impressed by the chinese on this one. This is probably the best small arm they've ever designed. In many areas, most notably the gas bloc, it surpasses the M4 in refinement.
It has a lot of AR and AK DNA yes, but what truly sends it over the top is how they improved that DNA.
For example; going from the AK magazine's protruding locking lug (Which is subject to high shearing force) to the new style of dual inset locking recesses will vastly simplify the manufacture of reliable magazines. Most likely they will be able to fully injection mold them (something that you really can't do with the AK magazine, at least not without adding metal inserts which is expensive). It's a much better solution.
The only hiccup is that it's so refined that whoever buys it outside of China is going to have to pay a lot of money, because it surely will not be cheap to make.
I agree 100%. I also came to the same conclusion about the magazine in my QBZ95 video.
If you see my pinned comment, I just made an update on how a protrusion on the hammer prevents the hammer from slapping the disconnector. I just discovered this like 15 mins ago. Even though the FCG is pretty much an AK in functionality, they still found ways to refine it.
The deeper I looked into this weapon, the more impressed I am.
I don't think they intend to do much export, at least not for a while and not in the old Soviet-style. They probably saw that new Russian small arms weren't big hits on the international market precisely because the AKM was so simple and effective that prospective buyers simply could not justify the increased costs for so little improvement. The same is likely true with this new Chinese gun, at least until 3rd world militaries look to replace their current weapons because they simply can not function anymore due to wear and tear.
Cabbage has done it again! Thank you for another detailed video I can't imagine how much effort you poured into them!
I always like your analysis content about Chinese weapons. I have to admit I wish more of my fellow Chinese did things like this so in depth and quality for their country as you do even though you’re Vietnamese. Thanks for your content!!
The research and quality of the 3D diagrams in this video is insane
I feel like your beating yourself too much for such a hard subject. You have done a great job on something no one has touched. Keep it up brother.
This is a very good video, full of well researched back ground information and video to help people to understand mechanisms including potential reasons to adapt such mechanisms into design.Bravo!
As a Chinese, I can imagine how hard for you to search so many info, translate and understand them. The PLA used it during the drill with Russian army last year which you can search on the bilibili.
hey, Chinese not to be allowed on UA-cam or Western's platforms in China, VPN? that's not good for you, your thief government do not happy for that
@@vietnhattran1022 I like the fact that you just assume every Chinese is in China
@@vietnhattran1022 the government dont give a crap, they use vpn themselves
@@wocaomade and actually even though I am in China, I can also use VPN to get access to youtube
Wait, you're telling me Cabbage's video done (extremely well) but with a lot of speculation was what the PLA used to help brief their Russian counterparts on the PLA's new service rifle? That is hilarious.
Dang dude... This is some top-grade content if I've ever seen it! Please keep it up!
Cool vid, seems like an interesting design, overall seems like a hybrid piston AR with an AKish Bolt. The expansion chamber is interesting. It would be interesting to see how they actually perform.
Bravo.. really a lots of work to do for getting these information... Great job man.
Very detailed presentation. Love your work!
though I have to skip certain engineering-savvy parts, the tremendous effort you've put into this vid is both impressive and professional.
Excellent work! I noticed that the bolt stays open after the last round is fired which is a nice improvement over the AK.
One thing to really appreciate in this design is the sheer serviceability. Short of the barreled receiver, any major part can be swapped with just a screwdriver and punch. While field service probably isn't doctrine, it is surely a great capability to have in conflict conditions.
The one thing I'd worry about is bolt life due to thin walls around the extractor spring channels but I doubt it's any worse than the AR.
I think it's pretty much on par with a Galil ACE. The design seems to take inspiration from that platform.
@@qarmatianwarhorse6028 It derived from previous type-03 rifle's platform.
China's army has long regarded reliability as the highest standard of firearms, back in the 80s, PLA considered adopting AUG, but eventually, although AUG was regarded as reliable in most cases, it can't be such reliable in a few cases, so PLA no longer considered using it, instead, they developed QBZ95, which has lots of problems but just hard to go wrong
Such a great video! We could stand to copy these designs for our AR-15s.
so glad i found this channel
Thanks for the in-depth analysis on the design. It is astonishing to me how you elaborated your analysis with only open-source information.
As a VN-ese I am, at the same time, impressed by how Chinese are catching up other modern armed forces, and disappointed on how ours is stubbornly clinging into soviet-era doctrine and equipment.
I am sympathetic to situation of other developing countries. All the problems you described comes down to cost.
Military expenditure is a zero return investment unless a country has a decent chance of winning the next war, so most countries are in a phase where they’ve given up on this area, with a few big players (who think they have a reasonable chance to win) kicking this investment into overdrive.
Even at the beginning, the PLA did lots modifications to SKS/ AK-47. Then they shown up the type-81 which is much better than AK-47.
Man, you are awsome. These videos are sick. As a gun owner, I got more to study.
Thankyou for the effort you put into this. To admit an error and correct it is a noble trait.
Your videos are by far the best resources for information about the new PLA rifle. I hope you know how valuable your work is
I really like the gas port design. Having seen how port erosion affected the short-barreled CAR-15 rifles, it would be wise to allow that gas to expand and cool. The old CAR-15s and the MK-18s were notorious for cyclic rates getting up to 900-1000rpm with gas port erosion.
Yes
Aside from the slanted gas port drilling, everything else does checks out and is fundamentally sound, and is an iterative improvement over past solutions. Which, in the world of small arms in the 2020s, is in and of itself a remarkable achievement.
Dude, your videos are truly a gift from God. Thoroughly researched and explained, while also very honest about the sources and lack of official documentation and research constraints your under for this. Let hope they make an export variant. Would love for them finally commercialize the 5.8 catridge but I would settle for a 5.56 model.
In other words #YOU #CARED # WHEN #NO #ONE #ELSE #WOULD
Glad you liked it! Honestly my hope is that this gun is different enough from an AR-15 that the Canadian government will allow us civies to use it lol. I'll surely get my mitts on them if they ever come my way.
If you are okay with 5.56 and a normal AR lower wolf sells the A1 upper which is essentially just the taiwanese T91 china copied and modernized to make this. Its not the same, but it doesn't fund the chinese military industrial complex unlike buying a qbz.
@@bigbugg92 Yeah, but that ain't a qbz 191 now is it? If I want an ar 15 then I would just get an ar 15. And I doubt they need our funding if ever.
@@AVWUVU I agree with you if you want an ar-15 get one... China did
@@bigbugg92 There is not a single piece of this gun that is compatible with the AR-15. If we go by your other comment on someone else comment, you are the only one who thinks no one else can use ar-15 as an inspiration. Almost all modern guns have ar-15 or AK inspirations in one way or another, even your Indian guns are the same so piss off with your hypocrisy.
打过191的人对这枪评价很高，说它是以豪华跑车的标准来造一支枪。由于加工精度非常高，在展会上即使没有上抢油润滑，这枪的各部件活动起来依然非常顺滑。这对于习惯节约的人来说，不太适应，没想到进步会如此大，标准会如此高。
如果公差非常小，不应该更需要润滑吗😂
@@jackalexander3246 你对“公差”是不是有误解？
@@doejohn4046 tolerance？
@@jackalexander3246 这是正态分布里控制西格玛的能力
@@jackalexander3246 公差小意味着零件不松，配合恰当，不是说活动部件给你卡的紧一点
your work is amazing!
Very informative. The editing is great too.
Amazing content as always👍
I am truly amazed by this weapon. When I clicked on this video I fully expected just an AK with rails and a bolt catch.
I have to say that your video is awesome!
Thanks for the detailed information and analysis 😊 👍
Amazing video!
Thanks!
This is the kind of detail you don’t get from a Forgotten Weapons video.
It is Classified Weapons.
@@Greentangle Patents arent classified
兄弟，你正TM牛啊，这么多的材料你都找出来了， 分析也很仔细，佩服！
属于行走的50万了
@@triggerost9023 他是越南人，在枫叶留学呢
@@youngsmith5647 应该是越南裔加拿大人
非常专业的分析了，基于保密的原因中国国内对自己的开源情报分析都被砍了，感谢大佬
thanks for another informative video, and 8:46 lol
From the looks of the gas block design, DBP-191 gonna be one spicy boi...
Wow, this is a fascinating engineering view! Very thoughtful design exposed.
I was here since the beginning.
The rear sight design was also used from the 1950s forward on the Canadian version of the FAL rifle.
Very high-quality video!
As for the design itself, it's fairly ingenious, but perhaps a bit over-engineered? It seems like they went from a no-frill but simple design of qbz-95 to a design that's even more complicated than the ar15 platforms.
我靠，老兄你真专业，厉害！
No one can escape from using the AR ergonomic design! Even the latest AK models look more and more like an AR!
这种一体化拉机柄实际上是一种传统，考虑到故障的情况下可以用脚踩或用手排除故障。这也是95式步枪提把高的原因之一，后续95-1步枪虽然有降低提把高度的改进。但是也是保留了这个操作的可行性。这算是部队对研发部门的一种指标。
用腳踩強行把退出來是一個優勢，但是右手用家要上膛的時候不太方便，尤其在比較狹窄的位置時侯
95式的提把高？我都不懂怎么形容G36的了
@@EC-hf8ui 191有空挂，直接按释放不用再拉一遍。
okay you have uploaded 3 new videos since the first 191 video........i guess i have to subscribe now before i miss out on future videos. thanks for the great work, will watch them once im available, these are serious lectures. it kills me when i see other "military channel" just concluded that this rifle is a copy of the AR system because it can have different attachments 😭 I want to jump out of the building when I hear those clueless idiots talk about things they do not know.
As usual, like first, then watch.
Chinese firearm design has come a long way in the past 25 years.
True
Theyve stolen way too much
@@kioshiro482 yes we have 0 innovation, even ByteDance stole from Facebook and UA-cam to create TikTok
@@wocaomade dont say that. Before the communist took over, china had accupuncture, its own writing, its own unique culture and amazing food. Now its all about money
@@kioshiro482 So...KMT was communist?
Oh boy, can't wait until this arrives in Canada so Ian from Forgotten Weapons checks it out!!!
I might get one if they do import them.
@@ericferguson9989 Well, good for you...
Not only am I from down here, I'm in California. The idea is DOA for me.
16:12 Does the gun have a special gas block setting for shooting suppressed? Is it possible that the 2 settings are for suppressed and normal shooting instead of for normal and adverse shooting? Or maybe the rifle grenade function is given up entirely and the middle position is not a shutoff, but suppressed instead?
Edit: also, can dual chamber design reduce the perceived recoil the same way AR adjustable gas block and long barrel DI AR can?
Add some information I know
Those who have used him said: This rifle is the only one whose magazines don't shake and make noise
One of the assault rifle models is the most comfortable version
At 13:50, you can see the bottom curvature of what appears to be a barrel nut, similar to AR15 free-float handguards.
On the photo of the QBU191 right? Yea that’s tru
Considering Type 07 pattern camouflage was somewhat butchered through bureaucracy to maintain unit tradition, a call back to the Type 56’s ergonomics seems to make sense.
😅🤣😂
It is actually more similar to the type 03 rifle for the charging handle part. Other than that, they also implemented some ar15 style mechanisms like index finger mag-release and the push button bolt release.
I love the explanation of small but important details like the reciver track in m16 or the way arx 160 changed it.
The system in qbz 191 reminded me of a similar system I saw in an em2 animation where a lever hold the locking flaps till bolt was in position.
Nice break down!
Awesome!Really interesting ideas from Chinese engineers.
Couple of thoughts:
1. Cotter pin on an AR is “flimsy?”
2. I don’t get the lever on the cam pin. I don’t know if there’s any AR upper that’s out of spec due to cam pin wear, and definitely not after a significant amount of wear. This seems like a complicated solution to a minor problem.
3. What’s the bolt life here?
That's a sweet a$$ gun. Wish we could get them
Some neat features in this gun. Ergonomically and functionally combined with the cartridge its a very nice design to me. Seems very effective.
The round counter thing is nifty. Not a huge fan of the regular optic having such coarse adjustment, I'd prefer half moa if it were me. I wonder how this gun would handle suppression. The DMR variant to me is probably the nicest looking one. The rail looks very quality. Impressed with the detail in this video. Wish more videos like this for firearms existed.
amazing , you are unbelivable ,
The design of the rear sight aperture disk is almost identical to that of the FN C1.
I'm thinking that lever on top of the bolt carrier could also just be a safety device just like on hk416s that lock the firing pin for slam firing reasons since it's a short stroke tappit without internal piston rings. Instead of unlocking from the hammer it might unlock from the hood of the receiver? The rivet on the upper seems too high up to be the ejector imo and could also be a caming slot with hard steel riveted there since it's a short stroke piston system with an ar15 like caming lug. (Could also be a dual purpose piece with the ejector on it towards the bottom maybe)
If you ask me- the caming of the ar15 does create friction, but it's not some weak point that other rifles don't also do too. They all have a mechanism to keep from rotating the lugs early when picking up a cartridge that creates extra friction. For instance on an ak47 the bolt pushes on the guide rail while it's picking up a cartridge and trying to cam/rotate at the same time. If you push back on an ak47 lug it creates tension too, albeit less like you mention because it's not steel on aluminum like an ar15 but running on a metal rail. This isn't a problem with ar15s though if your gas rings are in check, short stroke piston is a different story as most know tho.
It is a very good looking gun!!
I wonder if he will cover the Type 81 rifle.
Very detailed video. Recommended
Seems like it can use a few improvements. Needs a coated aluminum lower and could use a circular bolt instead of octangular bolt. Don’t have an idea of how corrosive norinco ammunition is now in 5.8x4.2.
Ejection port on the 191: there is a gaping hole up, between the "carrier key" where the piston strikes and ejection port; which can be an ingress point for mud. On the AR15, even with a longer ejection port than the 191 (plunger ejector kick case out slower than fixed ejector), is still better sealed by the carrier. This is due to the charge handle placement, which forces the ejection path upward, more than the 22,5° of the ar15, making the above mentioned gap.
Idk why the bolt tail is on the 191, all piston gun (g36, scar) deletes the bolt tail (carrier/ bolt weight ratio). At first i thought the firing pin retainer pin is captive and works like an ar15 selector, rotates to unlock the firing pin, which would be kinda neat; but it was not true. Maybe the bolt is detached from the carrier by manually lift up the anti rotate lever, push the bolt back, cams the bolt out of the lever and pull out the pin? The barrel whip seems minimal for a piston system (see ar18 barrel whip vs m16a1, by larry vicker) which helps with accuracy. Keep in mind that for 1 thing that i or you notice, theres probably 3 other things that slips by. Eugene stoner (smithsonian interview, edward c ezzel) said than weapons cant be "engineered to death" and design deficiency are only obvious when something breaks or fails.
Your work is very good for someone who probably have the never shot a gun ('nam), i assume at least 2 years of watching forgotton weapon? You plan to emigrate to somewhere more suitable pursue your (i assume) designer dream?
Thanks for the insightful comment! Yeah the ejection pattern on the 191 seems to have caused a few problem with ejection port geometry. If you look at the photos, you can see that the upper rear end of the ejection ports on the production guns are enlarged compared to the prototypes. There’s also a photo of a prototype gun on Chinese internet with the ejection port manually enlarged with a file, which I didn’t include in the video. I’m also curious about why the bolt tail wasn’t deleted on the 191. I don’t think the amount of material in the bolt tail would cause an issue with mass ratio on the 191, especially when there’s some leeway in the buffer to increase mass if necessary. I think the bolt would be removed pretty much the same way as in an AR-15. Retaining pin out > Firing pin out > Lift locking lever > Push bolt back > Cam pin out > Bolt out.
Yeah I couldn’t agree more that there are likely 3 more things that went into the gun for 1 thing we notice. I try to keep my conclusion open ended and give the gun the benefit of the doubt whenever there’s something I don’t understand.
I’m currently in Canada for university, where I do own several guns. But I have been reading up on guns since elementary school. I’d probably have to move to the US if I want to work on guns, bc job prospects in Canada in the industry look pretty grim tbh. My long term goal would be to work for the military (the VNmese one), but I probably should pick up some experience before that.
Almost forget, the 191 looks similary to the russian 9a91 in concept: 4 lug bolt (note: bolt tail is present for some reason idk?), anti rotation mechanism for the bolt, piston operation, fixed ejector, low profile (compared to ar15) trigger group & magwell, detachable trigger group, with the exception that the 9a91 is harder to mount optics, foldable stock and sheet steel construction.
Pursue your dreams i guess. I do suggest (if you havent already) reading up interviews, patents, biography of great inventors, (john browning, eugene stoner, reed knight, etc). It is so much easier and faster to learn form these expert than doing guesswork by yourself. (Ex: reed knight say: the ar direct gas system's pressure prevent the bolt form boucing in the carrier after bolt unlocking (unlike carrier - trunnion bouce which make the carrier go out of battery) which would gouge the aluminum reciver near the front recess for the cam pin in a piston ar15 (proof: smallarms solution, colt external pistion program); how the brn180 aluminum reciver use a wider cam contact surface to minimize reciever damage (brownell's interview); how a majority of piston gun have steel insert near the front cam tract recess or entire steel cam track. The ar15 gas system also remove the carrier pulling force on the bolt from the unlocking phase (like johnson rifle short recoil mechanism) the unlocking force push the bolt forward into the barrel, not back out of the barrel like a gas piston system. Details like this (which can never be guessed at the designing board) are what make and break designs. Read technical calculation documents like internal/external ballistics, stress analisis, etc; a good source is weapons man's small arms design resource (books, reports, etc). Remember that the original source must be from a reasonably successful, tested weapon designer.
@@cgdg7075 Thanks! I found that small arms solutions and school of the american rifle are great sources to learn about AR-15/18 pattern firearms. Nathaniel F on TFB has interesting write-ups as well. I'll keep in mind the other details you mentioned.
it seems the gun operates very close to a long recoil system similar to the Knight's Armament Light Assault Machine Gun. The gun seems to shoot very flat in full auto.
The dual gas port design looks like its designed to allow lower pressure subsonic loads to work both suppressed and unsuppressed, while the dual chamber allows it to tolerate the backpressure from firing regular supersonic ammo suppressed, without worrying about the increased backpressure overstressing the system like on an M4.
Really great video. The Chinese really outdid themselves on this one. They have done a thorough analysis on different weapons and integrated the pieces and design concepts which best fit their military doctrine. This looks fancy on paper and all but until its been used in combat and becomes combat tested its jus a shinny tool to shoot with.
But you could say the same thing about the US military NGSW rifles.
In my opinion, the QBZ 191 is probably the best rifle to come out of China by a long run. It may even be a game changer in terms of china's military doctrine. A new rifle change is always significant.
105 average IQ finally coming out...
@Freddy Ruger Ummm, yes it can?
And anyway, the QBZ 191 is a good rifle. It would be a fool's job to deny and underestimate it. The job vacancy is open for you Frederick
@Freddy Ruger Have I hit a soft spot on you Fred? Dropped the calm act pretty quickly lol didn't you.
Keep liking your own comment as well, really makes you feel better
@Freddy Ruger Be brave Freddy, and watch Task and Purposes video on the 191.
BTW he's a former US soldier who does loads on the ngsw as well.
ua-cam.com/video/ydEgap5XeGM/v-deo.html
I believe there was a version of that disc rear aperture sight used on some version of the British L1A1. But I'm not sure if that was the first instance of it being used.
Just looked it up, you're right!
这个开源情报分析厉害
I feel the trigger is a bit too square, it may be uncomfortable over time.
Gas chamber over-pressured:
2 Chambers!
Weak extractor spring:
2 Springs!
the 2 springs aren't there because they are weak, they can be easily made strong. it is because they are long and slanted , and they need to dodge the middle hole.
8:52 LOL I saw that comment too (I use Bilibili). And I didn't expect that you also watch anime 😁
I don't even care about this gun at all, it's just fascinating watching you deducing facts, further and further refining your knowledge until you find the truth
Y'know I'd actually love to buy one of these just to test out. Too bad thats impossible with the ban...
cool,I admire you
Just curious but do you have any intentions to do a review on the CS/LR 17 in the future? I've always been interested in it as I thought it would become the next PLA service rifle when it was shown in 2018 with the remodeled design.
It depends on how much I can find out about them, but it’s a possibility
It's called the QBZ so I think it has a big chance becoming the next military rifle just like M1 M4A1
Yo aren't you the guy who posted a lot of the source videos in this video? I am subscribed to you and already recognized some footage once this video started lol
I only add that i'm agree the chinese did a very great job in designing this guns, i can assure you that those "original" improvements are probably not something new as well. I'm willing to bet that those improvements are also been thought out by a lot of gun designer, but like you said we basically reached plateu of the gun designs, but that are mostly because a lot of factor like ease of manufacture, ease of use/field strip, mass producing cost, and many more.
Also while those improvements seemed good in paper, we still have yet to see whether those will also good in practice as well in longer term. Consider more parts = more manufacturing costs = more complicated and more things prone to fail as well.
Just like what the germany did with the 416. It's a well thought out improvement but sometimes are not really necessary. i'll still give credit to the chinese tho, as they're willing to actually mass produce something different to the design.
I am a lot more impressed at 191 design than before now! I just hope one day it is in Canada and we can try the 5.56 version.......hell even airsoft will do.....
This gonna be way more expensive than type 97 i guess.
Surprised they even want to improve the AR mechanism. Impressive.
i hope this dispels the idea the Chinese are merely copying blindly...
10:08 Didn't the Italian ARX-160 have a rear sight similar to that, too?
yup!
the two chamber gas port is really clever
can it penetrate body armor at combat ranges?
The DMR seems to have a more practical setup, the front sight had a simpler push button system and the rail looks like a common MLock.
Although it makes the weapon look less unique which is what I gather there mostly going for.
I would love to see a honest UA-cam torture test, but unfortunately we know that's not happening anytime soon.
Bro please do a detailed engineering video on ak12 first prototype . The zlobin one of 2012.
I'm just wondering when can I get 191 airsoft gun
quality content from you as always, r/warcollege sent me
Will you make a video on the General Dynamics & Sig’s NGSW rifles?
I want to, but it depends on how much info I can find about them
7:40 It's kinda interesting how that note on the cleaning kit is in Vietnamese
Vì tôi là ng Việt ;)
@@cabbage6015 Damn content chất lượng đấy bro 👌. Respect
Video made with passion, love it!
What is your personal opinion of the 5.8x42 cartridge family?
And if logistic is a nonfactor, what cartridge would you like to see adopted for modern infantry rifles?
Thanks! Glad you like it.
I don't know much about ammunition design in general, but I have read some Chinese sources claiming that the 5.8 is designed to prioritize penetration over soft tissue damage, but since the US issues level IV plates on a large scale, I don't think the penetration advantage of 5.8 is very relevant. External ballistic characteristics of the 5.8 are generally a bit better than 5.56, greater energy retention at long range, flatter tragectory, but these differences are pretty minimal. The 5.8 case also has a more pronounced taper compared to 5.56, which should make for easier extraction. Overall I think the 5.8 is a very solid small calibre high velocity cartridge with pretty similar performance compared to its counterparts.
@@cabbage6015 Interesting, somehow small arms developments don't adhere to the feedback loop of up-gunning and up-armoring in armored warfare. The leaps made in effectiveness of tank rounds and armor during four years of WW2 is equivalent to a century and a half of small caliber development *7.62x54r*
Well I guess better diesel engines produce more horsepower to lug the heavier munitions, and mechanized human only exist in fiction, like ultramarines with their explosive bolters.
@@Finnv893Because humans cannot withstand too much weight and recoil force. Human beings are the main factor limiting the development of small arms
With the whole layout of the gun and the AK trigger pack the 191 must feel SO much better to shoot than the 95s
Conventional > bullpup.
No doubt! Here is a clip showing the recoil of 95 vs 191
ua-cam.com/video/hX0fr1St6b8/v-deo.html
The logic to install/remove the trigger assembly is similar to the QBZ95/97, the difference is the selector on the opposite side.
How hard will it be to convert 191’s non-free floating barrel to a free floating one?
Is it as simple as swapping new aluminum hand guard that doesn’t touch the barrel? Or does the barrel itself need special treatment?
Also it seems to me that 191’s hand guard is too short for attaching IR Illuminator and used in a C-clamp. The non-detachable iron sights just worsen the issue. Seriously, how did the designers not think of that?
And the sling mount positions are too limited… the core mechanism is more than well thought out, but what were they thinking when they designed the outside?
they probably thought of that but did it anyway to save money
In my opinion it's very much like a galil ace gun.💪🏻
How does the mechanism protecting the gun from outside elements at the charging handle while the gun fire work? Does it similar to the Sig SG 551 rifle?
It's not similar. The Sig rifles use a rubber gasket to seal the charging handle slot. The 191 has a bolt carrier that is long enough to cover up the charging handle slot by itself
@@cabbage6015 Like the FN Scar?
@@sonhuynh106 yea, in the sense that the bolt carrier covers the charging handle slot