@@jojojojo4332 it's funny to me because in his attempt to keep their pride, by saying it like that it made them look weaker, like they can barely even acknowledge the truth. Should've just said it straight, "boys, we lost lol, it is what it is".
@@waynevictory5208It would have been a deeply unusual choice- the allies didn't so much as imprison let alone exile any of their enemy monarchs in WWI, nor did they do that for the other defeated Axis leaders. They either went into exile or were lynched
Essentially, the Emperor Shōwa (Hirohito) spoke in a older form of Japanese called _kobun_ . Unless you were an older person at the time or had taken classes in _kobun_ at the university level, you would have difficulty understanding what the Emperor said. It would be like a person versed in modern English trying to understand a person speaking Chaucer-level Middle English.
What's weird is I remember reading some of Canterbury Tales and *generally* understanding it, but spoken it must be nearly impossible. So, it sounds like an apt comparison (a little further from modern English than Shakespeare).
The way I understand it is that it's a lot like Shakespeare for English, you can still understand it, but some of the words aren't really used anymore, and it sounds super old timey. Japanese actors still use this for period dramas, and just like Shakespeare, it's far different from the modern language.
So dumb. I have been listening to old speeches and books, like from Socrates and others, in modernized language. It's stunning how much more intelligible the content is.
@@RenVizsla would you talk this way to a stranger you met in Starbucks? Seriously, reality check man. I'm literally just a guy on a train going back home after a long day. Can you be chill to me?
Knowing japanese culture there must have been an army of speech writers losing sleep over trying to word it in the most roundabout way humanly possible.
The German speech was kind of similar. Something like "In order to protect Germany I have agreed to cease hostilities". Better than saying "If this goes on any longer the red army will literally be on my doorstep"
@@SovietReunionYT That's just the language naturally at work Japanese is deliberately round about with everything. This guy is saying "he never said surrender" and the most accurate response to him is "well yeah, surrender is an english word"
So by speaking in that old tongue, that many people could not fully comprehend, the Emperor could safe face, which is extremely important in Japanese culture. By not being understood, it would be the same as actually not having said certain things.
More like so his people would not try to kill him for betraying Japan. The culture than was so extreme on honor that soldiers would kill generals for not being loyal enough, which included things like ordering a retreat. It was also very rare for any Japanese soldier to surrender and instead they would fight till 'the end'. Civilians would also commit mass 'self delete' when it looked like the area was going to be taken by the allies. Plus, I think this was after his generals tried to stage a coupe to prevent the surrender. Either way his caution was justified.
No, they tend to deliver them in double speak and legalese in the form of bills longer than most book series... just about as bad for the common person to understand.
Neither was old Japanese, so what does that have to do with this? I said they speak it to hide things they dont want the common person to understand, not that they invented it.
Fun Fact: In Korea, when the surrender speech by Emperor Hirohito was broadcasted, many Korean did not take that speech as the surrender speech. Due to many Koreans did not speak Japanese, and two reasons were mentioned in this video, common Korean reaction was like WTF? The Japanese surrender was finally reconginsed when the Japanese flag went down.
Keep in mind that in current day Japanese history lessons, all of the sudden the USA dropped 2 nukes on us. Completely ignoring Japans part in WW2 and before that the sino-japanese war 1&2. This is a very apoligenetic society where bowing head and fake apologies count as full amends. Don't get me wrong, i like Japan and it's people, but to get any of them to admit to past warcrimes and FAILIURES is like waiting on an American democrat and republican to be both honest and nice to each other.
@hendrikmoons8218 already apologized and paid repartitions as a peace condition per the sf treaty but I guess redditors won't ever stop beating this dead horse since a single country exists that doesn't make self hatred a civil religion
@andrewklang809 Much like Nixon in withdrawing from Vietnam. It was a tie. Not that he actually used the word 'tie' of course but it sure looked like a loss to most people. 'Peace with honor' was the phrase he used.
At the age of ten in 1976 I was floored to learn that Hirohito was still Emperor of Japan. And he'd continued to be until 1989. He accepted the provisions because they allowed him to stay on the Chrysanthemum Throne.
The americans made a decision to make the decision to save millions of lives and however many billions of dollars it would cost to organize a mainland invasion in exchange for not touching one guy. You would only be ‘floored’ if you has a worldview of a child. Most Axis leaders pretty much ended the war untouched unless they committed self deletiong like Hitler or got killed by rebels. It’s just a lot of them are from minor nations. Japan was not willing to compromise on this one point and pushing the issue would essentially be weighing possibly millions of American soldier lives for essentially vain pride.
> He accepted the provisions because they allowed him to stay on the Chrysanthemum Throne. This is false. The decision to leave Hirohito on the throne indefinitely wasn't made until 1946. The condition the Japanese attached to their offer to surrender (which was not merely that Hirohito retain the throne but that he retain the sovereign authority to rule) was contradicted in the US response ("the authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government to rule the state shall be subject to the Supreme Commander of the Allied powers who will take such steps as he deems proper to effectuate the surrender terms"). The Japanese government deadlocked over how to respond to the US response, and Hirohito had to break the deadlock by pronouncing that the US response was acceptable. It left him at MacArthur's mercy, but fortunately for him MacArthur decided that he was useful.
@@proper1420aas far as I recall, had the US not needed an ally in the region due to the Soviets, Hirohito and a fuck ton other people would've been declared war criminals.
I mean, when failure = seppuku, (although Hirohito wouldn't have had to commit seppuku, merely a load of people working under him), there's a bit of a reason to avoid saying "we lost and surrender". Also, compare it somewhat to Ludendorff and Hindenburg promoting the idea of being "stabbed in the back", and not actually losing the war themselves.
Hirohito wasnt informed much about the war. He was the face of the japanese military but himself was clueless to pretty much everything going on. So when he was informed and wanted to surrender the people actually incharge got pretty scared and angry
That is what the propaganda after the war said. At most he was kept in the dark about losses that were small enough that they could be hidden from him. He definitely knew about victories and even many of the atrocities committed by his military.
I live in Canada glad my family is Japanese descent. My great great grandpa came to Vancouver in the 1900’s my great grandpa grew up in a interment camp in Alberta until the war ended
I find this fascinating. As an Arabic speaker, i am now surprised that we still use our formal/classical language in many settings in daily life (aka Modern Standard) even though nobody speaks it in informal settings, even people with simple educations can comprehend it. It makes me sad somewhat that Japanese lost usage of its classical form.
I don't speak Japanese, but when I heard the broadcast of the Emperor's speech, one could tell that he spoke odd. I think even the Emperor's first language was courtly Japanese, which was little known, and he had difficulty reading the speech.
I still can't believe late in the Meiji period, writers were _still_ mostly not writing in "spoken language." he says they switched to spoken language. That means they still didn't do it yet if they were just switching.
Since I don't have Japanese television anymore and don't live in Japan. When I listen to the emperor giving his New Year's address, I have a hard time following the classical Japanese. But just like Shakespeare's English or Elizabethan English if you take the time to study you can figure out what's being said.
The fact it was spoken in old Japanese is also one of the reasons Japan claims that the emperor never renounced its divine nature, effectively conning the allies so to say.
@@SuperCrazf "god" translates to "kami" but "kami" doesn't translate to god. The emperor IS a kami, which a reductive translation of kami is "god" but kami can also be referring to spirits, ghosts, demons, and real people... even deer. Even Mount Fuji is considered a kami. To an extent a "kami" is a way of essentially referring to a "legendary being" in Christianity this would also include the likes of Jesus and angels. And unlike OUR idea of god, being by default benevolent (usually we only clarify that a god is malevolent), kami has a more neutral basis, a kami of fortune gives and takes from people as such is the nature of wealth.
I know they played the surrender declaration to that soldier who kept fighting for 70 years. I wonder if that had something to do with him not believing it
Can we get a direct comparison between the German and Japanese proclamations of surrender? Seems like an interesting insight into how a culture deals with admitting defeat.
The announcement was NOT for the average citizen. It was for the military. He did it in person to make sure they understood they were being ordered to lay down their arms.
This adds interesting context to what I have read! One wonders if it was a racist/culturalist slur that the common man in Japan couldn't understand what the Emperor said.
I have some wartime Japanese magazines, and the "Imperial Rescripts" published in them are even written in a different, much older style. It's all kanji and katakana, no hiragana.
I sure love trying to watch any Japanese WW2 movie and all the Generals and politicians speak 古文 which you need special training to understand and would be like Shakespearian English to us.
@64maxpower not directly from what I heard. In multiple sources it states that Hirohito may be an absolute monarch, but his council was divided into factions. This was significant to the downfall of the Japanese military where more resources were prioritized for its Navy than the Army committing said war crimes (and they did some rapes)
I mean before he was about to admit surrender on radio some Japanese soldiers literally try to coup him and continue the war. Hirohito probably didn't want to say directly it was surrender because of how radical the Japanese military was.
It's like that episode of band of brothers where they are preparing for market garden where those english soilders are walking around in German kit and that one soilders speaks really old English and that one paratrooper doesn't understand Him.
That was normal working-class London cockney of the time. The equivalent in Japanese would be what a canal barge worker on a river in Tokyo spoke, about as different from the emperor's Japanese as you could get.
I've read some articles about Terrifier 3 on how alot of people walked out on the first scene. Now that i've seen the film myself, absolutely pathetic. It's just gore, that's it. I was really dissapointed by the entire film 😢
Hmm… that’s wrong. The Imperial Rescript on the termination of the war was delivered in a literary style of Japanese. This is correct. However, the literary style is based on older Japanese and is not specifically medieval Japanese. If anything, it can be described as archaic Japanese. Moreover, it is incorrect to say that some words were not understood due to their pronunciation. The misunderstanding arose simply because the words used were difficult and had a formal and high-flown tone. While the style may be archaic, he spoke using modern Japanese pronunciation. In fact, even at 30 years old, I can say that while there are words I don’t understand, there are no parts of the pronunciation that I can’t catch (although there are sections that are hard to hear due to poor audio quality). But what I find most troubling is that these issues could easily be clarified by simply asking a Japanese person who is knowledgeable about the language or history, yet instead, incorrect information is being spread. While it’s understandable to misinterpret complex matters, making such easily verifiable mistakes gives off the impression of an dismissive attitude toward Japan, which is quite unpleasant.
Because he was walking on eggshells. The Imperial Japanese military was insanely radical and they could've and did try to overthrow the Emperor to continue the war.
I thought it was confusing because Royal Japanese use a specific set of Japanese language grammar that normal Japanese do not know nor use. Interesting stuff.
Thats bevause Japanese people are a very proud people To surrender is to admit defeat, and mist wouldve rather died than to admit they lost. So instead of surrendering, he out it in a language more befitting to his country.
And the original recording of the announcement was lost forever. The ones that we have today came from a copy that was smuggled out of the Imperial Palace during the Kyūjō incident.
Two takes. For the first one, his voice was too quiet. For the second, it came out overmodulated and some words were even less clear. They didn't want to bother him for a third one, so they went with the first.
Ah, yeah. Japan's Meiji constitution is written in this style, also called Kanamajiribun. It's absolutely impossible to understand unless you actually know Chinese.
This question comes from vincebrannon3353, thank you for the question.
Cool
It's almost like he was completely out of touch with the rest of the Japanese people, or something
Was that kinda like modern audiences hearing Shakespearean English (which did sound different)?
Great job Vince. Proud of you
❤❤
He did say something to the effect of "Japan is unable to continue the war"
Which can also mean "I'll be back"
Also “I’m not a god”
Its a very vage phrase.
the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage, while the general trends of the world have all turned against her interest.
@@jojojojo4332 it's funny to me because in his attempt to keep their pride, by saying it like that it made them look weaker, like they can barely even acknowledge the truth. Should've just said it straight, "boys, we lost lol, it is what it is".
“The war can no longer be fought in our favor, Steiners counterattack was not fast enough”
*slowly and shakily takes out glasses*
"These men will stay here: Keitel, Jodl, Krebs and Burgdorf."
@@robertsaget6918DAS WAR EIN BEFEHL! DER ANGRIFF STEINERS WAR EIN BEFEHL!
Never had an original thought in your life have you? Do you people have to quote downfall on every WW2 video? Imsufferable
@@kaltenmacherI can hear words
"The war is going in a way that is not necessarily in our favour"
I thought the british were the masters of understatement .
and then blamed the Americans for their cruelty...
@@ColumbiastargazerPeople in Southeast Asia, China, and Korea:
@Columbiastargazer
I mean, he wasn't wrong. But Japan and its allies were basically the same or worse.
Fire bombing cities was the norm at the time.
Mhm, just like Rhodesia
"I didn't lose. I merely failed to win"
Good ol' Mcclellan
I did not fail, victory merely avoided my grasp.
Oversimplified reference???
"We do not surrender, we merely accept the terms of the Potsdam Declaration"
"The one that calls for unconditional surrender?"
"That's the one"
“Anything wrong with that?”
It wasn’t unconditional in fact it left the emporer. basically intact as fare as not facing the death penalty alongside his officers for their crimes.
he never said they didn't surrender
@@waynevictory5208 that was the allies choice to let the emperor live though, the Japanese did not compel the allies to spare him
@@waynevictory5208It would have been a deeply unusual choice- the allies didn't so much as imprison let alone exile any of their enemy monarchs in WWI, nor did they do that for the other defeated Axis leaders. They either went into exile or were lynched
Essentially, the Emperor Shōwa (Hirohito) spoke in a older form of Japanese called _kobun_ . Unless you were an older person at the time or had taken classes in _kobun_ at the university level, you would have difficulty understanding what the Emperor said. It would be like a person versed in modern English trying to understand a person speaking Chaucer-level Middle English.
More like using modern day French to understand Latin?❤❤❤
Chaucer spoken aloud is barely recognizeable as English. You're thinking Shakespeare because that is after the Great Vowel Shift
What's weird is I remember reading some of Canterbury Tales and *generally* understanding it, but spoken it must be nearly impossible. So, it sounds like an apt comparison (a little further from modern English than Shakespeare).
@@samsonsoturian6013
I mean, a lot of people do incorrectly refer to Shakesperian English as old English.
@@malcireEven Chaucer wasn't Old English. That's Middle English, after the introduction of French due to the Norman Conquest. Old English is Beowulf.
"we didn't lose. We just failed to win!"
-oversimplified.
E
i didn't surrender merely accepted your terms
Which included unconditional surrender.
"Oh! And she never gives out, and she never gives in -- she just changes her mind."
The way I understand it is that it's a lot like Shakespeare for English, you can still understand it, but some of the words aren't really used anymore, and it sounds super old timey.
Japanese actors still use this for period dramas, and just like Shakespeare, it's far different from the modern language.
So dumb. I have been listening to old speeches and books, like from Socrates and others, in modernized language. It's stunning how much more intelligible the content is.
@@FloatingWeeds2err no shit? ‘I’m having it translated to my periods version of English and its soo much more intelligible 😅
@@RenVizsla I've read translations of ancient texts into mid 20th century English. It's way less intelligible than a full 2020 modernization
@@FloatingWeeds2 it’s almost like you don’t speak that version of English 🤔
@@RenVizsla would you talk this way to a stranger you met in Starbucks? Seriously, reality check man. I'm literally just a guy on a train going back home after a long day. Can you be chill to me?
That's an elaborate way of saying we lost.....😑
Just Japan things 😅
Knowing japanese culture there must have been an army of speech writers losing sleep over trying to word it in the most roundabout way humanly possible.
And even still they almost stopped his broadcast.
The German speech was kind of similar. Something like "In order to protect Germany I have agreed to cease hostilities". Better than saying "If this goes on any longer the red army will literally be on my doorstep"
@@SovietReunionYT That's just the language naturally at work
Japanese is deliberately round about with everything.
This guy is saying "he never said surrender" and the most accurate response to him is "well yeah, surrender is an english word"
Even in the 1940s, you have to have politician's words spun:
"Of course, what he MEANT to say was..."
So by speaking in that old tongue, that many people could not fully comprehend, the Emperor could safe face, which is extremely important in Japanese culture. By not being understood, it would be the same as actually not having said certain things.
More like so his people would not try to kill him for betraying Japan. The culture than was so extreme on honor that soldiers would kill generals for not being loyal enough, which included things like ordering a retreat. It was also very rare for any Japanese soldier to surrender and instead they would fight till 'the end'. Civilians would also commit mass 'self delete' when it looked like the area was going to be taken by the allies.
Plus, I think this was after his generals tried to stage a coupe to prevent the surrender. Either way his caution was justified.
I understood the old tongue was the emperor's native tongue.
Just want to say that i really love these shorts.
"This operation, is no longer PROFITABLE"
Ah, the mortal words of Hondo Ohnaka.
I kind of wish our politicians delivered major announcements in Shakespearean or medieval english.
Maybe in england. It would be weirder in places that never spoke it.
No, they tend to deliver them in double speak and legalese in the form of bills longer than most book series... just about as bad for the common person to understand.
@@christopherrogers303 Double speak wasn't invented yesterday.
Neither was old Japanese, so what does that have to do with this? I said they speak it to hide things they dont want the common person to understand, not that they invented it.
It would be clearer than their usual pronouncements.
"The war has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage" 💀
“It appears I’ve made a severe and continuous… lapse in judgement.”
Fun Fact: In Korea, when the surrender speech by Emperor Hirohito was broadcasted, many Korean did not take that speech as the surrender speech. Due to many Koreans did not speak Japanese, and two reasons were mentioned in this video, common Korean reaction was like WTF? The Japanese surrender was finally reconginsed when the Japanese flag went down.
When you gotta rephrase what you already wrote to meet the minimum word count
Keep in mind that in current day Japanese history lessons, all of the sudden the USA dropped 2 nukes on us. Completely ignoring Japans part in WW2 and before that the sino-japanese war 1&2.
This is a very apoligenetic society where bowing head and fake apologies count as full amends. Don't get me wrong, i like Japan and it's people, but to get any of them to admit to past warcrimes and FAILIURES is like waiting on an American democrat and republican to be both honest and nice to each other.
Japanese politicians have made more than 40 acknowledgements and apologies for war crimes.
@hendrikmoons8218 already apologized and paid repartitions as a peace condition per the sf treaty but I guess redditors won't ever stop beating this dead horse since a single country exists that doesn't make self hatred a civil religion
"don't make self flagellation your religion? Yikes!"
What surprises me about that is not the omission of the war crimes, but largely the omission of the aggressive war by Japan.
@@longiusaescius2537 Damn me, I almost sounded proffetic, I may have to dial my own tune down...
I didn’t lose I failed to win
"We did not lose! It was a tie."
@andrewklang809 Much like Nixon in withdrawing from Vietnam. It was a tie. Not that he actually used the word 'tie' of course but it sure looked like a loss to most people. 'Peace with honor' was the phrase he used.
The heads side is down, but if you were looking through the earth from Australia, it would be up
@PeterSmith-bj4ml we should've supported Ho early on
"We don't have any resources left to fund a war that is too expensive." - Hirohito
“‘Tis but a scratch. We’ll call it a draw.”
- the Japanese emperor
I love these!
"We didnt lose, we just ran out of time" - Vince Lombardi
At the age of ten in 1976 I was floored to learn that Hirohito was still Emperor of Japan. And he'd continued to be until 1989. He accepted the provisions because they allowed him to stay on the Chrysanthemum Throne.
The americans made a decision to make the decision to save millions of lives and however many billions of dollars it would cost to organize a mainland invasion in exchange for not touching one guy. You would only be ‘floored’ if you has a worldview of a child.
Most Axis leaders pretty much ended the war untouched unless they committed self deletiong like Hitler or got killed by rebels. It’s just a lot of them are from minor nations.
Japan was not willing to compromise on this one point and pushing the issue would essentially be weighing possibly millions of American soldier lives for essentially vain pride.
You knew he'd reign until 1989 in 1976? Did you buy a lottery ticket?
> He accepted the provisions because they allowed him to stay on the Chrysanthemum Throne.
This is false. The decision to leave Hirohito on the throne indefinitely wasn't made until 1946.
The condition the Japanese attached to their offer to surrender (which was not merely that Hirohito retain the throne but that he retain the sovereign authority to rule) was contradicted in the US response ("the authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government to rule the state shall be subject to the Supreme Commander of the Allied powers who will take such steps as he deems proper to effectuate the surrender terms"). The Japanese government deadlocked over how to respond to the US response, and Hirohito had to break the deadlock by pronouncing that the US response was acceptable. It left him at MacArthur's mercy, but fortunately for him MacArthur decided that he was useful.
@@proper1420aas far as I recall, had the US not needed an ally in the region due to the Soviets, Hirohito and a fuck ton other people would've been declared war criminals.
@@michaelmartin9022 read it again there are 2 separate statements
Interesting fact: "Jewel Voice Broadcast" is 玉音放送 in Japanese. I learned it from a rap song.
Humphrey Approves, it was most unclear as any civil servants should emphasize.
"You mean you lost your key?"
- Hacker
I saw that handlebar mustache. Looking snazzy natsume
'The tide of the war has turned not necessarily to Japan's advantage' his exact words
Mistakes were made. Battles were lost.
so hirohito basically said “i didn’t LOSE, i merely failed to win!”
I mean, when failure = seppuku, (although Hirohito wouldn't have had to commit seppuku, merely a load of people working under him), there's a bit of a reason to avoid saying "we lost and surrender".
Also, compare it somewhat to Ludendorff and Hindenburg promoting the idea of being "stabbed in the back", and not actually losing the war themselves.
Hirohito wasnt informed much about the war. He was the face of the japanese military but himself was clueless to pretty much everything going on. So when he was informed and wanted to surrender the people actually incharge got pretty scared and angry
by the end at the war e wasnt innocent
No; he knew. He knew from the beginning and he agreed.
That is a myth propagated by the allies to support the Emperor in the post war period in order to fend off the Soviets.
That is what the propaganda after the war said. At most he was kept in the dark about losses that were small enough that they could be hidden from him. He definitely knew about victories and even many of the atrocities committed by his military.
"We did not surrender, we left the match before we lost"
Natsume Sōseki rockin’ a sweet ‘stache.
I love this channel
People forget that Hirohito was Emperor of Japan until his death in 1989
The war situation has developed not necessarily to our advantage, as Steiner was not able to gather the resources for counterattack.
“We’ve been unburdened by what has been.”
What a great guy.
he didn't say the word surrender.
he said "boys, we're just gonna let them win okay?"
I live in Canada glad my family is Japanese descent. My great great grandpa came to Vancouver in the 1900’s my great grandpa grew up in a interment camp in Alberta until the war ended
I find this fascinating. As an Arabic speaker, i am now surprised that we still use our formal/classical language in many settings in daily life (aka Modern Standard) even though nobody speaks it in informal settings, even people with simple educations can comprehend it. It makes me sad somewhat that Japanese lost usage of its classical form.
"jewel voice" is a great euphemisim
So he left it up to the radio announcer to explain what the Potsdam Declaration actually involved.
"the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage" . Greatest understatement of the 20th Century.
I don't speak Japanese, but when I heard the broadcast of the Emperor's speech, one could tell that he spoke odd. I think even the Emperor's first language was courtly Japanese, which was little known, and he had difficulty reading the speech.
Bro looks like Rodney Dangerfield
Wow. That’s really eye opening about Hirohito and how Japan was during g the war.
The Emperor: How do you surrender without technically surrendering?
I still can't believe late in the Meiji period, writers were _still_ mostly not writing in "spoken language." he says they switched to spoken language. That means they still didn't do it yet if they were just switching.
Since I don't have Japanese television anymore and don't live in Japan. When I listen to the emperor giving his New Year's address, I have a hard time following the classical Japanese.
But just like Shakespeare's English or Elizabethan English if you take the time to study you can figure out what's being said.
The fact it was spoken in old Japanese is also one of the reasons Japan claims that the emperor never renounced its divine nature, effectively conning the allies so to say.
Basically nobody in Japan today beleives the emperor is a god
@@michaelmartin9022 not really, they argue that the emperor is a god but not on the “traditional western” way we understand
@@SuperCrazf "god" translates to "kami" but "kami" doesn't translate to god.
The emperor IS a kami, which a reductive translation of kami is "god" but kami can also be referring to spirits, ghosts, demons, and real people... even deer. Even Mount Fuji is considered a kami.
To an extent a "kami" is a way of essentially referring to a "legendary being" in Christianity this would also include the likes of Jesus and angels.
And unlike OUR idea of god, being by default benevolent (usually we only clarify that a god is malevolent), kami has a more neutral basis, a kami of fortune gives and takes from people as such is the nature of wealth.
Imagine the president about to give a speech and just starts speaking like Shakespeare
“Let’s call it a draw.”
I know they played the surrender declaration to that soldier who kept fighting for 70 years. I wonder if that had something to do with him not believing it
When I first listen to it, he sounded exactly how I thought he would sound
Fun fact this is what the entire Japanese cast/Hiroyuki Sanada spoke in during Hulu's Shogun series this year
Can we get a direct comparison between the German and Japanese proclamations of surrender?
Seems like an interesting insight into how a culture deals with admitting defeat.
The announcement was NOT for the average citizen. It was for the military. He did it in person to make sure they understood they were being ordered to lay down their arms.
"We have decided to go in a different direction. Effective immediately we will be laying off all conscripted soldiers."
"The war has progressed not necessarily to Japan's favor" - Hirohito
"we aren't really surrendered or anything, we just got our ass kicked so hard that we couldn't continue foghting"
The show Shogun also uses the authentic period accurate language that was spoken in the 1600s.
This adds interesting context to what I have read! One wonders if it was a racist/culturalist slur that the common man in Japan couldn't understand what the Emperor said.
I have some wartime Japanese magazines, and the "Imperial Rescripts" published in them are even written in a different, much older style. It's all kanji and katakana, no hiragana.
I sure love trying to watch any Japanese WW2 movie and all the Generals and politicians speak 古文 which you need special training to understand and would be like Shakespearian English to us.
Good thing the americans were intelligent enough to keep the Emperor in his position, even if without powers. Imagine another post-Wilhelm Germany.
The difference is Germans hated or were indifferent to Wilhelm while the Japanese adored their emperor
That's kinda metal actually
the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage. Said hirohito
Classical vs Vernacular Japanese is more about grammar than pronunciation
Japan: We're not surrendering, we're just stepping aside
That emperor has passed away. He should be referred to as The Showa Emperor, or just Showa Emperor is ok.
he would fit right in the corporate world
"We didn't lose, we un-won"
"Things are not optimal"
Hirohito must've acted more sane than Stalin, heard he really loved his biology subject, really loved science
Unit 731 is proof
@64maxpower not directly from what I heard. In multiple sources it states that Hirohito may be an absolute monarch, but his council was divided into factions. This was significant to the downfall of the Japanese military where more resources were prioritized for its Navy than the Army committing said war crimes (and they did some rapes)
didn't know the vernacular movement also was mirrored in japan
Hirohito had to overrule his military and still couldn't admit it was a surrender. Meanwhile the brainstrust debate the use of the atomic bomb
I mean before he was about to admit surrender on radio some Japanese soldiers literally try to coup him and continue the war. Hirohito probably didn't want to say directly it was surrender because of how radical the Japanese military was.
The reason that so many Japanese are seen crying while listening to the broadcast is that the Emporer told the people that he wasn't a god.
The literal translation was "We got our asses hsnded to us!"
It's like that episode of band of brothers where they are preparing for market garden where those english soilders are walking around in German kit and that one soilders speaks really old English and that one paratrooper doesn't understand
Him.
That was normal working-class London cockney of the time. The equivalent in Japanese would be what a canal barge worker on a river in Tokyo spoke, about as different from the emperor's Japanese as you could get.
There are some of us still fighting 😂 even tho “The war has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage.” - Hirohito
Shows that his meme game was ahead of its time:
"Tell me you've surrendered without telling me you've surrendered."
I've read some articles about Terrifier 3 on how alot of people walked out on the first scene.
Now that i've seen the film myself, absolutely pathetic. It's just gore, that's it. I was really dissapointed by the entire film 😢
This seems like if they announced things to Americans in Chaucer English.
We’d still get the message.
“I didn’t surrender, I just didn’t want to play anymore, this game is boring, let’s play something else” 😂
The situation has developed not necessarily to the advantage of the classical language variant.
Hmm… that’s wrong. The Imperial Rescript on the termination of the war was delivered in a literary style of Japanese. This is correct. However, the literary style is based on older Japanese and is not specifically medieval Japanese. If anything, it can be described as archaic Japanese.
Moreover, it is incorrect to say that some words were not understood due to their pronunciation. The misunderstanding arose simply because the words used were difficult and had a formal and high-flown tone. While the style may be archaic, he spoke using modern Japanese pronunciation. In fact, even at 30 years old, I can say that while there are words I don’t understand, there are no parts of the pronunciation that I can’t catch (although there are sections that are hard to hear due to poor audio quality).
But what I find most troubling is that these issues could easily be clarified by simply asking a Japanese person who is knowledgeable about the language or history, yet instead, incorrect information is being spread. While it’s understandable to misinterpret complex matters, making such easily verifiable mistakes gives off the impression of an dismissive attitude toward Japan, which is quite unpleasant.
Hirohito said..
"The war has NOT developed to Japan's advantage.."
He used every other word APART from "surrender"
Because he was walking on eggshells. The Imperial Japanese military was insanely radical and they could've and did try to overthrow the Emperor to continue the war.
“The war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan’s advantage.”
"We don't surrender but we accept your demand for our surrender🤓"
If Germany didn’t fall prior to the bomb being ready, AND the USSR remained out of it would the US have used it if the situation was right?
I thought it was confusing because Royal Japanese use a specific set of Japanese language grammar that normal Japanese do not know nor use. Interesting stuff.
Thats bevause Japanese people are a very proud people
To surrender is to admit defeat, and mist wouldve rather died than to admit they lost. So instead of surrendering, he out it in a language more befitting to his country.
If I remember right, they actually recorded a couple takes of the "surrender" announcement.
And the original recording of the announcement was lost forever.
The ones that we have today came from a copy that was smuggled out of the Imperial Palace during the Kyūjō incident.
Two takes. For the first one, his voice was too quiet. For the second, it came out overmodulated and some words were even less clear. They didn't want to bother him for a third one, so they went with the first.
Ah, yeah. Japan's Meiji constitution is written in this style, also called Kanamajiribun. It's absolutely impossible to understand unless you actually know Chinese.
Except for all the katakana
NHK? Is that the nihon hikikomori kyoukai?
Someone expected a sheltered, puppet-ish Emperor to not speak fancy?