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@@mididoctorsThe Marshall Plan put western Europe way ahead in less than a decade, mainly to outdo the Soviet block. Britain? Well whatever they said.
Here's a human interest story I have told before, but ties in nicely with this episode. When Eisenhower saw the German Autobahn in 1945 he was impressed, for he had long argued for something similar in the USA. After he became President, he endorsed an interstate highway system based on it. Congress approved the funding and work commenced in 1956. By the early 1970s the system had extended to Florida and near my hometown. This was how I met Herr Herna. He was the son of a German Luftwaffe general and a Dutch mother. When he was still a boy his parents divorced and Herna lived with his mother in another part of Germany. A few years later during the bombing of Rotterdam, his father received an irate phone call from his mother who yelled at him that his damned aircraft had blown up her mother's house (insert favorite mother-in-law comment here). Herna's father went on to serve with distinction until he lost a leg in a plane crash and was subsequently retired. At this point he warned his now grown son that he had to make a choice regarding military service, for he no longer had any influence to keep him out of the war. Not wishing to die in the Heer on the Russian Front or drown in a Kriegsmarine U-boat, he joined the Luftwaffe and became a student pilot. His training was interrupted by the end of the war, an event for which he was eternally grateful. Less grateful was his subsequent transfer to the French as one their newly acquired slave laborers. He spent the next three years in France rebuilding roads and bridges before finally being released. With his newfound trade he was able to immigrate into the USA, later becoming a citizen. He worked for years on Eisenhower's interstate highway system, traveling from state to state as the work progressed. My Dad met him quite by accident at a small airport in Florida where he found Herna staring at my Dad's airplane. He asked Dad what it was, and when Dad heard his accent, he responded to him in German (Granddaddy had been a native German). This was the beginning of their friendship, which led to two of my sisters getting summer jobs on the interstate construction. You never know how history will affect you decades later.
Sad that he was helping build up America’s interstate highway instead of helping rebuild his native land, Germany, ruined by the firebombing of cities by the Americans and British.
This all might seem very dry compared to the active combat parts of WWII, but it's actually critically important to understanding how the world got to where it is today. Great job, gang.
Dry? This was very interesting. I was pretty much expecting exactly this kind of content. My knowledge of the subject is sparse and limited, but I know there's a lot that happened after war in Europe that is not taught in schools with adequate details.
France: "We need to return to the Holy Roman Empire!" Everyone: "Oh yeah, what ever happened to that? Who was it that broke that up?" France: "...no further questions!"
Even though Napoleon destroyed it and created Confederation of the Rhine, the one who actually ended its existance and signed the ending documents to end that empire and abdicate, was the emperor Francis II, the austrian emperor.
@@jokubassabeckis2269 fair; I suppose Napoleon woulda been happy to just be named Holy Roman Emperor, instead, if his future father-in-law hadn’t gone scorched earth
An old dear friend was a former luftwaffe flight engineer. They said the prisoners prayed they would go to the Americans followed by the British, then dreaded going to the French, and nobody wanted to go to the Soviets. He was first given to a French farmer who chained him in the barn like an animal. He escaped but was caught and forced to work in the mines. He thought he would die in those French mines, so he escaped again and finally made it back to Germany...
Good points that you made. This flight engineer clearly understood the extent of hostility to the Germans was proportional to the extent of damage caused by the Germans.🙄🙄 As a sidenote：This was why a sizable chunk of the Japanese establishment wanted to fight to the end. They knew what they did and were expecting to be treated in the same way if they surrendered.
I bet he feared to go into those mines. The French delved too greedily and too deep. He knew what they awoke in the darkness of Val de Fer. Shadow and flame.
@WorldWarTwo Thank you. I enjoy your work and think you all are a pretty cool group of people. As an expat from the US who has been living in Europe for over 25 years, I really relate to Indy's story. Keep up the great work 👍 BTW, don't know if you've done this, but there's a whole history of how when the Germans came and occupied areas like Yugoslavia which had ethnic German communities who had been there since Katherine the Great and before, they drafted the German men into there ranks. Same when Hitler reoccupied Alsace. Most were sent off to the Russian front. I have very good friends whose families had experienced this...
Hi german in his early 20's here. I just wanted to take the time to appreciate what u folks have done here. This amazing work for ww1 interwar ww2 and even post war military and socioeconomic structure is absolutly invaluable. My countries history is nothing to be ashamed of, it is somthing to behold and take as a coutonary tale and somthing to be never repeated and forgotten. So thank u all who worked on this and take great pride in what u acheived bc u deserve it.
Thank you so much for your kind words. We’re really glad to hear that our work resonates with you. What you mentioned about history being a cautionary tale, and something never to be repeated or forgotten, is exactly what drives us. We’re grateful for the support and will continue working to honor that mission. Thanks again!
@@thulfred words cannot explain how much distain i have against people like you. It would be the worst to ever happen to us but hey afterwards you will be the same as those old nazis who could have known that this has happend? Everyone and people like you made it that way.
In Truman’s memoir, he detailed the brutal French occupation of Stuttgart and how he had to threaten to end American aid to get De Gaulle to change the status of the French occupation of the city.
I love how Indy makes his trademark gestures even when the other guy is talking and making the point, as if they were reflexive. I guess I'd be the same way if I did a five year long oral history as he did
@@iamnolegend2519I mean, what exactly should the British do? Soviet boots were on Polish ground and there is no way to remove, except through another World War. We all know the type of guy Stalin is.
@@iamnolegend2519 Give it a rest, Britain and Poland have had no history what so ever until it came to WW2, It was not Britain's job to babysit Poland.
My grandfather escaped from East Prussia, where he was deployed at the end of the war and was POW with the British. As he was Austrian he was transferred to the British occupation zone in Austria, where he had to work for a farmer (which was by no means a punishment for him, as this was his calling) and released around Christmas 1945 already. Another interesting Special would be a "On the Homefront", depicting the everyday life in Europe after WWII. Not only in Germany and Austria, but also in East Germany, Eastern Europe as well as France and Great Britain. How people struggled immediately after the war, the establishment of black markets, often with the help of occupying soldiers, to the beginning of the "Wirtschaftswunder", the economic rebound in the 1950s. I guess to gather that information for Western Europe would be fairly easy, but I have to admit, I don't know much about Eastern European countries, like Czechoslovakia, Hungary or Romania.
I had stories of food parcels being sent home from Australia to England as late as 1956. My in-laws had parents in villages in yorkshire, food still rationed. The post war recovery was long and hard. Those who could, left. My own family deserted villages in northern Greece. Dads village once held 500 people. This year, 2024, it has 9.
I cannot begin to express the overwhelming elation that I experience when I think about the fact that I can come back and watch (or rewatch) all your episodes on all of your channels; whenever I want to. Additionally, I still haven’t seen all of the WW2 episodes. Therefore, I wish to related how I believe your catalog on your channels to be some of the most definitive and complete documentary films (or videos if you must) on the wars of the late-middle contemporary age!
Funny how the British Prime Minister, of all people, would want France to be treated as a victorious, occupying power; but never underestimate the British commitment to propping up multiple competing powers in mainland Europe!
A strong and British aligned France keeps Europe in check while they can focus on their empire and serves as a buffer in case of a war with the soviets
@@ChrisCrossClash That is very ignorant. France could have, would have been very difficult if it had been shut out of the post-war decision making and recovery. Very likely a leftist government would have taken power and formed alliances with the USSR. Probably towing Spain along with it.
That was absolutely fantastic! I’m not sure how you were able to cover 4 years of nonstop changes and maneuvering into 30 minutes but you did-although I would have liked more time spent on the Berlin Airlift which was such a feat of coordination and logistics that was able to see a plane land every minute in one of the zones! Just an amazing feat that DOES deserve its own episode! Great work as always, Time Ghost!
@@widyasantoso4910the Soviets against Finland in the Winter War 1939. Molotov said we are dropping food supplies not bombs. So the finish people reply with need a good drink with a meal. Answer as they say the rest is history. It's very simple to make and it was effective.
I remember playing the hex and counter wargame "Red Star/White Star" back in the 70s. The game depicted a hypothetical war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. The Berlin garrison of French, British and US brigades, roughly equal to a weak division, was an island in a sea of Soviet and East German armoured and mechanised divisions. They didn't last long.
That sounds more like "Next War" (SPI) or "NATO" (VG), Operational games about a Warsaw Pact Invasion of the West in the 70's and 80's. "NATO" (SPI) and "The Red Storm" (Yaq) didn't cover Berlin in their invasion of the West. "Red Star/White Star" (SPI) was a Tactical level game about warfare between the forces of the US and the USSR in Germany. There was also "Berlin 85" (SPI) that was just about a Warsaw Pact assault on West Berlin.
For the first time in my life this series has sated my thirst for knowledge about WW2. In addition so grateful for this special, detailing postwar politics etc... something which is normally overlooked by historians. Keep up the good work.
My mum became a cook for a Capt Montgomery in Luneburg, she told me about having to cook dinner one evening when Field Marshal Montgomery visited, said he was a very polite man. My mum married the Captains driver and emigrated to the UK in the 50's.
Early Soviet cameras like FED, Zorki and Kiev were produced by the stolen machineries from Germany that on e produced world renowned cameras like Leica and Contax. So owning an early FED or Zorki, one is actually the owner of an original Leica made in USSR.
As POW my Grandfather also got sent to the Rhein Wiesen Lager.... he said in the beginning, fresh water supply was the biggest issue and many died because of thirst and weather conditions. I hope for similar episodes about post war Austria and the tragic Story of sovjet POW after the End of WW2. Especially the "Lienzer Cossacks".
@@Rom3_29 You think a German teenager force conscripted into the army is responsible for that? Ridiculous. We, the allies, reneged on our obligations under treaty and committed war crimes as a result. Farming? Wasn't just farming. Many POWs died clearing minefields. Try to justify it however you wish, it was still cold blooded revenge.
@captainyossarian388 You sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind. I have ZERO sympathy for the Nazis. And please don't spout the rubbish that most Germans were not Nazis, they were, until they lost.
@@knightsnight5929 by that weird logic you should have no problem with terrorist attacks because the public did vote for the people that went into the middle east. why do people try to justify warcrimes all the time. I somewhat get it on a personal level revenge and stuff (if you are personally affected). but once you personally are hit by consequenses of other peoples crimes you start to cry about how unfair it is while having ZERO sympathy before. A circle of hate that you are a part of while condeming it in nazis....
16:13 "a country reeducated..." "okay kids from now on when you raise your hand make sure to only stick one finger out. We don't do it the other way anymore."
That little fact that the first thing the Soviets ordered cut from West Berlin being milk... it hurts a hell of a lot more after becoming a parent. It's one of those details I find throughout history that become so, so much more terrifying now than when I was younger and just began my time in academia...
It was cut because it is one of the most perishable staples (they did not have refrigeration), so it would have had the most immediate effect. Not "think of the children!"
When discussing the occupation plans, the US proposed a French Zone, and Stalin asked why give them one. The US said kindness, and Stalin said that would be the only reason. Stalin was thinking of the French surrender and collaboration, and its' "contribution" to victory. The French were vindictive, yet their official government was collaborationist, and actively cooperated in the deportation to extermination of French Jews.
Whereas Stalin invaded the eastern half of Poland in September 1939 and oversaw the massacre of 22,000 Polish citizens in April-May 1940 at the hands of the NKVD. Hypocrisy should be noted as a trait of Soviet culture.
Sadly, I have to agree with Stalin. France gave up when they still had a full army on the field. The Soviets would have destroyed their nation before surrendering.
@@MrModamanReviewsnot comparable, the French weren’t fighting for their people’s existence, if the Soviets surrendered they would be exterminated by the Germans
@@userprecisealt4136 Please, don't act like a moron If you are on this channel, you know it's not true, you are just insulting freely and stupidly All you are doing is repeating this stupid propaganda with the white flag joke because french didn't join the slaughter in irak
18:45 Soviet economists advised Stalin not to dismantle German industries and take them back to Russia. The reason they gave was that German industry had not kept up to date with new technology (apart from rocketry) during the 6 years of the War. Therefore the USSR would be inheriting out-of-date technology. Stalin ignored them (of course).
My first 9 years of my life were spent in a small company owned town. I went to school with a number of Eastern European immigrants who had escaped the Soviet takeover of Eastern Europe. All of them had relatives who were arrested by the Soviet and Soviet sponsored authorities. Even as late as 1960 many of them did not know the fate of their relatives.
Hey team. Love the series. I was wondering if you were or could do a segment about combat incidents during the cold war. I.E. Yugoslavia in 1950 between U.S. P-38's getting into a dogfight with Russian Yaks. The only Name I have is Col. C. T. "Curley" Edwinson. I also heard this is not the first encounter he had with the soviet Fighter. I believe there was one in early November 1944.
My great grandfather was a soviet POW who was released in 1949, he said that he was only released because he was still in a physical state fit enough to survive the travell back to germany, and that many of those who werent fit enough stayed. So that makes me think that whilst the overall death rate for POWs in the soviet union may be 36% I think for those who werent sent back early the death rate may well be a lot higher. Also to give a frame of reference for what was demed "fit" enough, he also said that those who were selected for transport back to germany were given a fatty piece of bacon, and that many died by eating it too quickly as their famished bodies couldnt digest this sudden influx of food. So if the soviets demed these people to be on the more healthy end of the spectrum, i dont really want to think about what state those they didnt consider to be in better health looked like.
Sure, but that death toll was nowhere near as high as among the 3-4 million Soviet soldiers who were starved and worked to death. It was all terrible, obviously, but the idea of painting the captured Wehrmacht soldiers as innocent victims is just silly. There are literally thousands of stories from German soldiers whose experiences as POWs in America and Canada completely changed their Nazi indoctrination. This did not happen the other way around.
@@haeuptlingaberja4927 What a beautiful example of whataboutism your comment is. A bad thing does not make another bad thing more justifiable. It's all bad and we should learn from it. End of story. Peace.
@@Dogggggggg I do understand your perspective, but my entire point was the whataboutism that far-right revisionists insist upon. Gauland ist nicht der einzige heutige Nazi, der behauptet, das Dritte Reich sei ein „Vogelschiss“ gewesen. The lost cause "clean, noble Wehrmacht myth." Ain't no whataboutism here, sirrah! How's your Wehrmacht kill ratio thing going?
17:00 Sounds like the Soviets are more interested in industrialization of the Soviet Union by getting as much of a heas start as they can from Germany.
Bravo! I hope your crew continues with examining the occupation of the Axis countries in the post war era, as well as what the liberated nations have to go through. I think that this is an area of history that is often glossed over, usually just summed up by the Berlin Airlift and merely the founding of new governments of the European states In the post war era. There's a lot of interesting intricate things to go through- for example the cigarette based economy that popped up right at the end of the war. This is an area and period of European and Asian history that I think could definitely go use a thorough examination and I would definitely look forward to weekly examinations of the aspects of it and how it fits in in the development of the modern economics and government of the European Union as well as the various developments in East Asia and the Middle East... In essence the "hangover" effects of WW II.
Great episode. I am glad you guys are continuing to cover post war Europe. Alot happen that really set up the Cold War and what happened in Germany after they surrendered. You touched on it, but I still can not understand how France was treated as an equal partner in post war Germany. They were defeated by Germany as all of the continent, so why did they get a say in any of post war Germany? Continue on with post war Europe, there is a lot there for us to learn. I enjoy learning from each of what you put out.
Well, the Soviet Union started off as a faithful ally of Germany, and didn't switch sides until Barbarossa when it was attacked. The invasion of Poland, the start of the war? The Russians did it from the east while the Germans did it from the west. France and the Soviet Union were allies of the West about as much as was Italy.
I met a German veteran (Fallschirmjager) back in the 1980's. After losing 53/60 men in his unit at Monte Cassino, he was sent to the Eastern Front where he ultimately was surrendered to the Soviets. He then spent 2 years mining coal in Siberia before being allowed to return to Germany. He only comment was (in broken English) was the height of understatement ... 'zat was not zo gut zere' ... Indeed.
The French put the Mauser factory back into production to produce K98 rifles and .22 LR training rifles. This continued until the other occupation countries complained.
Thanks Indy & Spartacus for this documentary. I'd say that there's very very few videos on this subject & it's interesting on what happened to Germany after the war. My great uncle was with the Royal Army Service Corps at the start of the war driving trains (prior to the war he was a train driver for the London, Midland and Scottish Railway LMS). He was given the rank of Captain & during the war he drove trains over the British network, France with the BEF (he was also onboard the RMS Lancastria when it got bombed), back to Britain driving trains over the network, participated with reconstructing the NW Europe rail network including Germany. After the war he was in the British sector with rail reconstruction & Berlin. He also took part in the Berlin Blockade driving trains to Berlin. His war didn't finish until late 1949 where he returned to British Rail as a driver. I remember him commenting about his role during the military occupation in Germany saying that the whole thing was a crap show in the zones of occupation. I'm hoping that you'll do another documentary soon in regards to former German officers of the armed forces that got positions within the Bundeswehr in the mid 1950's. Again guys, you do an excellent job with your research & production of videos.
Perhaps he drove trains in West Berlin to distribute the goods to factories and warehouses within the city once it arrived at the airport and after it was reloaded onto train cars. He also may have driven trains filled with food and fuel to a collection point in West Germany where they were being loaded onto the planes. He just couldn't have been driving trains to and from Berlin during the Soviet blockade because it was surrounded by their zone, and they had completely closed it off to all road and rail traffic coming from West Germany. The only way to get people and cargo into West Berlin during that time was to fly it in.
@@snapdragon6601 when reading history of the Berlin Blockade, it's the airlift that got the primary attention. Yes, road, rail & water transport were blocked but you needed to secure special Soviet permission to go to Berlin. I would say that he drove trains to collection points not far from the airfields but once the blockade was over, he would have had more freedom to go to Berlin. You have to remember also that from August 1944 that his crew were rebuilding the rail network in NW Europe in liberated areas. That's no mean feat to have it up & running in such a short time.
Given the developing Cold War I’m amazed that French wanted even then replicate the dominance France enjoyed over Germany under Napoleon after his victories from 1805-1807 What made them change their minds unless the fact that a series of separate German states would be too weak to resist a potential Soviet invasion crossed their minds
I live in Transylvania, Siebenburgen translated into German, a territory where Saxon and Swabian settlers settled starting around 1300. Saxons, Hungarians and Romanians have lived here in good peace for centuries, especially since the territory was under the control of the Austrian Empire. We were united with Romania after WW1 but the German population remained the same. After WW2, hundreds of thousands of ethnic Germans who did not participate in the war were deported to Siberia. (I come from the Reimer family from Codlea/Zeiden in German and at the Evangelical church I counted over 30 men with the name Reimer who lost their lives in the 2 world wars). Upon the return of the survivors from the communist camps in Siberia, each one planted a birch tree as a reminder of where they escaped from. According to official communist sources in Romania, only 20 percent of those deported returned. In some German gardens you see more than a dozen birch trees planted, I think each one for a loved one who never came back. In what statistics are these losses included and what is the estimated number of ethnic Germans dead in Siberia who did not participate in the war and who died in Stalin's gulags after the war. P.S. I have a friend whose grandfather came from Siberia, on foot, in 1957, who never spoke about the moments he went through. Grandpa Schneider could eat a chicken wing in 3 seconds, without living a trace of meat and he would always excuse himself saying, we do not know what hunger is. Thank you for the enormous work you do. Niky Reimer Brasov/Kronstadt.
15 million germans lived in eastern europe, including pommerania and eastern prussia before the war. There are now less than 2 million living in the area.
Saying that the overwhelming majority Romanians and Saxon/Swabian colonists and Magyars lived in peace in Transylvania is crazy given Romanians (and the Orthodox) were specifically disenfranchised and kept in serfdom for centuries, and when the Hungarian kingdom was given Transylvania again after the Austro-Hungarian compromise intensive magyarization took place targeting everyone but the privileged Germans. Not that it justifies deporting Germans after WW2 but its funny to see the difference of how the remaining Saxons see themselves vs how things actually were in Transylvania.
By 7:30 as someone raised on the 1948 GCs, I have two key takeaways: If you couldn’t use POWs as forced Labour, even in roles which didn’t directly assist the war effort, how can the 1948 Convention remove that obligation? How do you not know how many POWs died? Aren’t there records of the deaths, and the mandatory investigations? Haven’t you got records of the capture and death records?
The number who surrendered at the end of the war was so enormous that those sorts of records couldn't be made. Keep in mind there were also tens of millions of other displaced persons - refugees, camp survivors, forced laborers, people made homeless by bombing or fighting - that the Allies were trying to deal with. They were simply overwhelmed.
@@brucetucker4847 This was even more common on the Eastern front. As Germany began to retreat they (despite stereotypes) didn't keep good records about who was where. Especially of non German troops from allied countries. This was combined with Russian commanders overstating how many enemy troops they had killed or captured. By the end no one could do more than guess what happened to someone who just "went to fight" and didn't come home.
Lurking in the background, though never treated as a viable option, was the Morgenthau Plan. Which probably never had a chance of happening, but is sort of fascinating.
It is interesting to note that in 1945 Lusatia wanted to secede from Germany and join Poland or Czechoslovakia. Located in Bautzen, an organization of Sorbs called “Domowina” whose territories had been occupied and colonized by Germans for 900 years wrote petitions to Stalin for the secession of Lusatia from Germany.
Amazing - I never knew about the specific process that transformed Germany into two states post war (bizonia to trizonia spurred from currency reform - but not really currency reform).
I hope there is another episode about the Berlin Air lift. I think its very understate situation, Germans and Brits, people who were shooting each other just years ago, coming together to feed people of berlin in an impossibly new plan, which happens to work is a hopeful tale to end this sad chapter of human civilization.
@tomschmidt381 The U.S. Army's official histories on preparing to govern occupied areas -- creation of civil affairs as a function -- and the occupation of Germany 1944-1946 are both good reads on this topic. Jean Edward Smith's bio of Lucius Clay, U.S. military governor for Germany, is more easily digested and looks at the career path of an officer who ascended to 4-star rank having never led Soldiers in combat.
Regarding the Rheinwiesenlager, it is important to rememer that the US army was not prepared for the surrender of that many Germans, especially after the Ruhr-pocket surrendered. And supply of supplies, like food and other stuff was already scarce in war torn Europe.
Not to mention there were something like 40 million displaced persons to feed, shelter, and get back to where they belonged (when that was even possible). Any additional food given to German prisoners would have been taken from those people.
I really enjoyed that episode. So much has been written and said abount WW2 but I feel comparatively little about the postwar period. I find this period right after the war, or "Stunde Null" as many Germans called it, very interesting and important for the understanding of later political developments both in Europe and worldwide.
I was told years ago that Montgomery advocated for a quick return to industrial production in Germany. And heavy machinery was remarkably resistant to damage by bombing.
A good number of German POWs worked in coal mining in Soviet Union and Poland. Coal was absolutely vital for rebuilding industry, infrastructure and heating of homes. When my father was working in Silesian mines in mid 60s there were still some German speaking workers present and they weren't native Silesians.
Regarding "Trizonia": There was even a German Carneval song about this:"Wir sind die Eingeborenen von Trizonesien" (We are the natives of Trizonia). The joke here is that Trizonesien sounds very similar to the German names of various Pacific countries like Polynesien, Micronesien etc. The song was so popular in 1948/49 that it became some sort of imnofficial national anthem for what was about to become West Germany.
Can you guys do a video on the clearing and researching on the allies side of the concentration camps? Also, the research of crimes committed by such and such
Well yes, we started in the War Against Humanity series several months ago, and we’ll get back with more about the post war work, including the documentation for the Nuremberg trials, and the trials themselves. You can already see the final moments of the Holocaust and the beginning of the aftermath in these two videos: The Last Days of Auschwitz - War Against Humanity 126 ua-cam.com/video/6rgBJF_8vWc/v-deo.html Liberation of the Nazi Camps - War Against Humanity 131 ua-cam.com/video/yolqCuR7LaU/v-deo.html
If all aggressors were to be punished for starting WWII, Soviet Union was allied to Hitler’s government in early stages if the war and had to be charged with waging multiple aggressive wars, crimes against humanity and war crimes. But this fact is conveniently forgotten by most.
@@stephengraham1153 The Katyn massacres specifically, yes. Because they were documented The USSR did their utmost to try to hide their atrocities. Sometimes there's a lot of crimes that they committed and made sure to hide; such that they are only known via the memories of very old, almost dead people, or unrelated reports(for example a 1952 article about a medical campaign to combat syphilis and gonorrhea in Eastern European soviet states indicated that soviets raped every girl/woman they could catch) Unfortunately many atrocities that should never be forgotten have already been forgotten
@@stephengraham1153 The Poles won’t forget, but the West as a whole won’t bother to know and will still try to build cooperative relationship with Russia.
You mentioned death % rates of german PoWs in most countries they were leased to or captured by; however the Polish figures were missing. Does a figure for this exist and was just an oversight, or are these missing/caught up with the Soviet figures?
As a Pole, I never encountered the figures. If I had to guess, it would be worse than any of western figures but probably better than Soviet POWs, mostly because of much better weather and climate. I think they were used mostly to de-rubbling the cities and doing crude repairs to buildings.
In Berlin, the French got two British districts in the north. Originally, the Soviets got eight, and U.S. and UK six each. With the French, it was 8 USSR, 6 US, 4 UK and 2 FR. The French got zero from the U.S.
Why did the British put up with giving the French things post WW2 first parts of Germany and second districts of Berlin? was it plainly down to Churchill being a Francophile?
@Sebastian_Brandstetter , service with the U.S. Berlin Brigade in the 1980s caused me to dive into literature of the post-war period. It took a long time and a lot of work and patience by the Germans and western allies, a free and democratic Germany was achieved.
This is a video I was waiting for. Thanks for it. It would also be interesting to have a video on the Nazis who fled Germany, especially to South America, where they thrived on the assets they took with them. There were even cases as that of Colonia Dignidad in Chile, which actively supported the military 1973 coup. This is important, since, for better or for worse, there's lingering legacy from those people.
the phrase "the soviets took everything that's not nailed down" is pretty funny actually, because they dismantled and took with them a lot of the railways, which were very much nailed down, in the later GDR. source: worked with a lot of old railway workers in the former GDR 10 years ago
Major Ivan Hurst was very happy that the Germans did squirrel all that stuff away, otherwise he would not have been able to get Volkswagen back on its feet and get those military vehicles made for the British army.
Yes, but the german civilians that were genocided and deported from eastern europe were also not at fault for that, so your relativisation is misplaced and frankly in poor taste
@@deviousalemanni4235 Those civilians didn't have a problem colonizing Slavic lands and turning against their own neighbors. They got off easy for what they did.
First of all: “An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”, and second, "Those civilians didn't have a problem colonizing Slavic lands", they didn't colonise anything, those were Prussians and later Germans whos ancestors had lived in Schlesien, Pommern, Danzing and Königsberg for centuries. And even IF they colonised the lands, again, in different words, "Two wrongs don't make one right".
My barber when I was growing up had been an Italian soldier who was captured by the British. He told me that the Brits maintained order by threatening to transfer prisoners to the French. “The French, they shoot you!”
The Russians plundered not only East Germany but also all the other states they had occupied. In the 70th I spoke with a former German POW who had been interned in Russia. He mentioned that even at the beginnings of the 1950th he had seen whole mountains of East German equipment and machinery rusting near a train station deep in Russia. Lots of the stuff that Russians looted after the war ended, was just waisted.
I knew an East German engineer who expressed his frustration at being expected to get plant going that had rusted to nothing or been dismantled so badly that it was beyond repair. But the USSR wanted to deindustrialise East Germany. Actually, so did many Americans.
@@Quran_Alone_Dawah probably beecase of the soviet union being a closed country with controlled media. not because of what you say. Afterall the first nations arent known for their headwear.
Sadly, there was looting done in Germany by some western Allied troops as well. From what I've read, among other examples one British officer was discovered to have gone into an German noble family's castle and had his subordinates pack up old chairs and books for shipment back to his own estate, while a group of American servicemen were found to be stealing artworks out of a national museum to sell back home or elsewhere (an embarrassed Army WAC returned one of the paintings to the collection after she had bought it from some of the fellas, as they had lied to her that it was taken from a government building). Thankfully, despite these incidents occurring the western powers at least made a stronger effort to punish looters and thieves (two leading American personnel involved in the art thefts were court-martialed from an old newspaper article I found).
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Great episode
I will be here every Saturday. Please keep it up! Maybe let's see some Canadian content? ;) 🇨🇦
Will a special episode be made about post-war Italy?
@@mididoctorsThe Marshall Plan put western Europe way ahead in less than a decade, mainly to outdo the Soviet block. Britain? Well whatever they said.
France should not be a knight maybe a steward. But not a knight
Here's a human interest story I have told before, but ties in nicely with this episode. When Eisenhower saw the German Autobahn in 1945 he was impressed, for he had long argued for something similar in the USA. After he became President, he endorsed an interstate highway system based on it. Congress approved the funding and work commenced in 1956. By the early 1970s the system had extended to Florida and near my hometown. This was how I met Herr Herna. He was the son of a German Luftwaffe general and a Dutch mother. When he was still a boy his parents divorced and Herna lived with his mother in another part of Germany. A few years later during the bombing of Rotterdam, his father received an irate phone call from his mother who yelled at him that his damned aircraft had blown up her mother's house (insert favorite mother-in-law comment here). Herna's father went on to serve with distinction until he lost a leg in a plane crash and was subsequently retired. At this point he warned his now grown son that he had to make a choice regarding military service, for he no longer had any influence to keep him out of the war. Not wishing to die in the Heer on the Russian Front or drown in a Kriegsmarine U-boat, he joined the Luftwaffe and became a student pilot. His training was interrupted by the end of the war, an event for which he was eternally grateful. Less grateful was his subsequent transfer to the French as one their newly acquired slave laborers. He spent the next three years in France rebuilding roads and bridges before finally being released. With his newfound trade he was able to immigrate into the USA, later becoming a citizen. He worked for years on Eisenhower's interstate highway system, traveling from state to state as the work progressed. My Dad met him quite by accident at a small airport in Florida where he found Herna staring at my Dad's airplane. He asked Dad what it was, and when Dad heard his accent, he responded to him in German (Granddaddy had been a native German). This was the beginning of their friendship, which led to two of my sisters getting summer jobs on the interstate construction. You never know how history will affect you decades later.
Hardly "slave labour" compared to what the Germans themselves did. Let's call it reparations and community service.
Really intriguing story there! Thank you for sharing. It's always fascinating to see how "the bigger picture" plays out in respect to our own lives.
Shows how small the world can feel like too. Thank you for the recollection
I always love to find these stories in the comments of WW2 Channel videos, history videos in general too, thank you for the read :)
Sad that he was helping build up America’s interstate highway instead of helping rebuild his native land, Germany, ruined by the firebombing of cities by the Americans and British.
This all might seem very dry compared to the active combat parts of WWII, but it's actually critically important to understanding how the world got to where it is today. Great job, gang.
Well said!
Dry? This was very interesting. I was pretty much expecting exactly this kind of content. My knowledge of the subject is sparse and limited, but I know there's a lot that happened after war in Europe that is not taught in schools with adequate details.
Absolutely, we appreciate the thoughtful comment!
@@WorldWarTwogreat video. However the linked sources document doesn't seem to contain any references relevant to this video :(
France: "We need to return to the Holy Roman Empire!"
Everyone: "Oh yeah, what ever happened to that? Who was it that broke that up?"
France: "...no further questions!"
😂
Even though Napoleon destroyed it and created Confederation of the Rhine, the one who actually ended its existance and signed the ending documents to end that empire and abdicate, was the emperor Francis II, the austrian emperor.
@@jokubassabeckis2269 fair; I suppose Napoleon woulda been happy to just be named Holy Roman Emperor, instead, if his future father-in-law hadn’t gone scorched earth
France: "Lets re-establish the confederation of the rhine!"
Allies: "you mean west germany?"
France: "....."
@@emmiannon1266 oh my god, it all makes sense now!
An old dear friend was a former luftwaffe flight engineer.
They said the prisoners prayed they would go to the Americans followed by the British, then dreaded going to the French, and nobody wanted to go to the Soviets.
He was first given to a French farmer who chained him in the barn like an animal.
He escaped but was caught and forced to work in the mines. He thought he would die in those French mines, so he escaped again and finally made it back to Germany...
Good points that you made. This flight engineer clearly understood the extent of hostility to the Germans was proportional to the extent of damage caused by the Germans.🙄🙄
As a sidenote：This was why a sizable chunk of the Japanese establishment wanted to fight to the end. They knew what they did and were expecting to be treated in the same way if they surrendered.
I bet he feared to go into those mines. The French delved too greedily and too deep. He knew what they awoke in the darkness of Val de Fer. Shadow and flame.
That’s a fascinating and tough story. It’s a reminder of how brutal life was for many even after the fighting ended. Thanks for sharing.
@WorldWarTwo Thank you. I enjoy your work and think you all are a pretty cool group of people. As an expat from the US who has been living in Europe for over 25 years, I really relate to Indy's story. Keep up the great work 👍
BTW, don't know if you've done this, but there's a whole history of how when the Germans came and occupied areas like Yugoslavia which had ethnic German communities who had been there since Katherine the Great and before, they drafted the German men into there ranks.
Same when Hitler reoccupied Alsace. Most were sent off to the Russian front. I have very good friends whose families had experienced this...
@@astonedwalrus4183 Nice victim blaming. Nobody forced Germany into an economic hole except for Germans.
SEP, an appropriate acronym = Somebody Else's Problem.
42
Some Extraneous Persons
Sounds an awful lot like 'enemy combatants', doesn't it?
Hi german in his early 20's here.
I just wanted to take the time to appreciate what u folks have done here. This amazing work for ww1 interwar ww2 and even post war military and socioeconomic structure is absolutly invaluable.
My countries history is nothing to be ashamed of, it is somthing to behold and take as a coutonary tale and somthing to be never repeated and forgotten.
So thank u all who worked on this and take great pride in what u acheived bc u deserve it.
couldnt agree more espacially now its more important than ever to remember that history and the dark path that lies down that road
@@andreasstrauss5194 espacially today with the AFD and CDU Parties in Germany having such good numbers in Polls is disgusting To me
@@thulfred you are delusional
Thank you so much for your kind words. We’re really glad to hear that our work resonates with you. What you mentioned about history being a cautionary tale, and something never to be repeated or forgotten, is exactly what drives us. We’re grateful for the support and will continue working to honor that mission. Thanks again!
@@thulfred words cannot explain how much distain i have against people like you. It would be the worst to ever happen to us but hey afterwards you will be the same as those old nazis who could have known that this has happend? Everyone and people like you made it that way.
Good to see that 1 million people have subscribed to this channel!
Yes, thanks to you guys, so thanks
*CONGRATS ON 1,000,000 SUBSCRIBERS!!! YOU GUYS DESERVE 10,000,000 MORE!!!*
In Truman’s memoir, he detailed the brutal French occupation of Stuttgart and how he had to threaten to end American aid to get De Gaulle to change the status of the French occupation of the city.
wow that's awful did the Germans invaded them three times in seventy years or something
@@francisaustere1879 something like that 🤔
@@francisaustere1879 how many countries did France invade shut up clown
@@francisaustere1879 twice
@@1987retroman Three times. First in Franco-Prussian War of 1869-1870.
Thanks for covering the post war era.
I love how Indy makes his trademark gestures even when the other guy is talking and making the point, as if they were reflexive. I guess I'd be the same way if I did a five year long oral history as he did
Indy absorbed the spirit of Conrad von Hotzendorf and those are its attempts to break free
Reminder that the war started to keep Poland free but war ended with Poland not free.
So sad. The Brits failed Poland.
@@iamnolegend2519 britain was broke they could no longer force the issue
@@Freigeist2008Hitler and Stalin never had to invade. Plus the whole ‘living space’ rhetoric
@@iamnolegend2519I mean, what exactly should the British do? Soviet boots were on Polish ground and there is no way to remove, except through another World War.
We all know the type of guy Stalin is.
@@iamnolegend2519 Give it a rest, Britain and Poland have had no history what so ever until it came to WW2, It was not Britain's job to babysit Poland.
5:12 if you've never seen it there's a fantastic movie dealing with this topic called "Land of Mine" (in english)
The Post War era is perhaps the best learning tool
My grandfather escaped from East Prussia, where he was deployed at the end of the war and was POW with the British. As he was Austrian he was transferred to the British occupation zone in Austria, where he had to work for a farmer (which was by no means a punishment for him, as this was his calling) and released around Christmas 1945 already.
Another interesting Special would be a "On the Homefront", depicting the everyday life in Europe after WWII. Not only in Germany and Austria, but also in East Germany, Eastern Europe as well as France and Great Britain. How people struggled immediately after the war, the establishment of black markets, often with the help of occupying soldiers, to the beginning of the "Wirtschaftswunder", the economic rebound in the 1950s. I guess to gather that information for Western Europe would be fairly easy, but I have to admit, I don't know much about Eastern European countries, like Czechoslovakia, Hungary or Romania.
I had stories of food parcels being sent home from Australia to England as late as 1956. My in-laws had parents in villages in yorkshire, food still rationed. The post war recovery was long and hard. Those who could, left. My own family deserted villages in northern Greece. Dads village once held 500 people. This year, 2024, it has 9.
Note that "Trizonia" does not include the Saar Protectorate (or Saarland), which remains separate until 1 January 1957.
Wow, 12 years!
I cannot begin to express the overwhelming elation that I experience when I think about the fact that I can come back and watch (or rewatch) all your episodes on all of your channels; whenever I want to. Additionally, I still haven’t seen all of the WW2 episodes. Therefore, I wish to related how I believe your catalog on your channels to be some of the most definitive and complete documentary films (or videos if you must) on the wars of the late-middle contemporary age!
I hope to watch this with my future children
@@DruiceBox yes this!
Funny how the British Prime Minister, of all people, would want France to be treated as a victorious, occupying power; but never underestimate the British commitment to propping up multiple competing powers in mainland Europe!
It was only literally because of Churchill who was a Francophile, France really shouldn't have had any part of Germany post war.
Balance of Power baby
It was also much cheaper on the British to have a smaller occupation zone.
A strong and British aligned France keeps Europe in check while they can focus on their empire and serves as a buffer in case of a war with the soviets
@@ChrisCrossClash That is very ignorant. France could have, would have been very difficult if it had been shut out of the post-war decision making and recovery. Very likely a leftist government would have taken power and formed alliances with the USSR. Probably towing Spain along with it.
That was absolutely fantastic! I’m not sure how you were able to cover 4 years of nonstop changes and maneuvering into 30 minutes but you did-although I would have liked more time spent on the Berlin Airlift which was such a feat of coordination and logistics that was able to see a plane land every minute in one of the zones! Just an amazing feat that DOES deserve its own episode! Great work as always, Time Ghost!
I am glad the guys mentioned Molotov. For those who don't know he is why the hand held fire bomb is named Molotov cocktail.
Who by?
@@widyasantoso4910the Soviets against Finland in the Winter War 1939. Molotov said we are dropping food supplies not bombs. So the finish people reply with need a good drink with a meal. Answer as they say the rest is history. It's very simple to make and it was effective.
Waking up to a new timeghost video in my inbox will always be the best part of my day
I remember playing the hex and counter wargame "Red Star/White Star" back in the 70s. The game depicted a hypothetical war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. The Berlin garrison of French, British and US brigades, roughly equal to a weak division, was an island in a sea of Soviet and East German armoured and mechanised divisions. They didn't last long.
The Warsaw Pact has three times the soldiers and military equipment as NATO. It was America's nuclear weapons that deterred the Soviets..
That sounds more like "Next War" (SPI) or "NATO" (VG), Operational games about a Warsaw Pact Invasion of the West in the 70's and 80's. "NATO" (SPI) and "The Red Storm" (Yaq) didn't cover Berlin in their invasion of the West. "Red Star/White Star" (SPI) was a Tactical level game about warfare between the forces of the US and the USSR in Germany. There was also "Berlin 85" (SPI) that was just about a Warsaw Pact assault on West Berlin.
Molotov, in his best Dr. Evil voice:
… “10 billion dollars” …
😂
And that was back when a billion was real money.
This channel continues to be great even after the War has ended. Best doc series ever made. Glad to see it’s still going.
For the first time in my life this series has sated my thirst for knowledge about WW2. In addition so grateful for this special, detailing postwar politics etc... something which is normally overlooked by historians. Keep up the good work.
Thank you, really glad we could spark an interest. Maybe you like our series on the Korean War!?
-TimeGhost Ambassador
I do hope we get specials about rations, medics, tank training, fighter piolt training, etc
Guilty on all counts!
The French got the coal, the Americans the scenery, the Russians the industry and the British the rubble.
Well, they did tell the Poles to fight on evem if.thry weren't going to help and they repatriated the Lienz Cossacks to the Soviet Union.
And the Americans paid for most of it....
And the Greeks a civil war.
Only found you guys a week ago. You guys actually delve deeper. Big fan now Marie
Thank you for your comment and welcome here.
-TimeGhost Ambassador
My mum became a cook for a Capt Montgomery in Luneburg, she told me about having to cook dinner one evening when Field Marshal Montgomery visited, said he was a very polite man. My mum married the Captains driver and emigrated to the UK in the 50's.
Early Soviet cameras like FED, Zorki and Kiev were produced by the stolen machineries from Germany that on e produced world renowned cameras like Leica and Contax. So owning an early FED or Zorki, one is actually the owner of an original Leica made in USSR.
As POW my Grandfather also got sent to the Rhein Wiesen Lager.... he said in the beginning, fresh water supply was the biggest issue and many died because of thirst and weather conditions.
I hope for similar episodes about post war Austria and the tragic Story of sovjet POW after the End of WW2. Especially the "Lienzer Cossacks".
So much of this I had no idea about. Thank you for making this special episode with its excellent explanations.
And thank you for watching!
Thanks for calling it what it was "slave labour".
@@Rom3_29so it’s justified? Then the Germans were justified? Your argument is so dumb
@@Rom3_29 You think a German teenager force conscripted into the army is responsible for that? Ridiculous.
We, the allies, reneged on our obligations under treaty and committed war crimes as a result. Farming? Wasn't just farming. Many POWs died clearing minefields. Try to justify it however you wish, it was still cold blooded revenge.
@captainyossarian388 You sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind. I have ZERO sympathy for the Nazis. And please don't spout the rubbish that most Germans were not Nazis, they were, until they lost.
@@knightsnight5929 by that weird logic you should have no problem with terrorist attacks because the public did vote for the people that went into the middle east.
why do people try to justify warcrimes all the time. I somewhat get it on a personal level revenge and stuff (if you are personally affected).
but once you personally are hit by consequenses of other peoples crimes you start to cry about how unfair it is while having ZERO sympathy before. A circle of hate that you are a part of while condeming it in nazis....
@@Rom3_29 They were worked to death and starved....
16:13
"a country reeducated..."
"okay kids from now on when you raise your hand make sure to only stick one finger out. We don't do it the other way anymore."
congrats for the 1 m subs! You deserve easily 10x times more!
Thank you very much!
That little fact that the first thing the Soviets ordered cut from West Berlin being milk... it hurts a hell of a lot more after becoming a parent.
It's one of those details I find throughout history that become so, so much more terrifying now than when I was younger and just began my time in academia...
It was cut because it is one of the most perishable staples (they did not have refrigeration), so it would have had the most immediate effect. Not "think of the children!"
Another great video gents you and your staff have done an excellent job again! Well done.
Thank you for the lovely comment!
When discussing the occupation plans, the US proposed a French Zone, and Stalin asked why give them one. The US said kindness, and Stalin said that would be the only reason. Stalin was thinking of the French surrender and collaboration, and its' "contribution" to victory. The French were vindictive, yet their official government was collaborationist, and actively cooperated in the deportation to extermination of French Jews.
Whereas Stalin invaded the eastern half of Poland in September 1939 and oversaw the massacre of 22,000 Polish citizens in April-May 1940 at the hands of the NKVD. Hypocrisy should be noted as a trait of Soviet culture.
Sadly, I have to agree with Stalin. France gave up when they still had a full army on the field. The Soviets would have destroyed their nation before surrendering.
@@MrModamanReviewsnot comparable, the French weren’t fighting for their people’s existence, if the Soviets surrendered they would be exterminated by the Germans
@@PersonOfEarth117Doesn’t excuse the French for being cowards.
@@userprecisealt4136 Please, don't act like a moron
If you are on this channel, you know it's not true, you are just insulting freely and stupidly
All you are doing is repeating this stupid propaganda with the white flag joke because french didn't join the slaughter in irak
One of your greatest videos ever. You guys make a good duo on camera.
18:45 Soviet economists advised Stalin not to dismantle German industries and take them back to Russia. The reason they gave was that German industry had not kept up to date with new technology (apart from rocketry) during the 6 years of the War. Therefore the USSR would be inheriting out-of-date technology. Stalin ignored them (of course).
I missed these episodes.
We will still be releasing episodes every Saturday, be it a special or Rise of Hitler. Stay tuned.
My first 9 years of my life were spent in a small company owned town. I went to school with a number of Eastern European immigrants who had escaped the Soviet takeover of Eastern Europe. All of them had relatives who were arrested by the Soviet and Soviet sponsored authorities. Even as late as 1960 many of them did not know the fate of their relatives.
The way you describe Germany as a beast really harkens back to the Beast of Revelation. Many people at the time certainly thought so.
Hey team. Love the series. I was wondering if you were or could do a segment about combat incidents during the cold war. I.E. Yugoslavia in 1950 between U.S. P-38's getting into a dogfight with Russian Yaks. The only Name I have is Col. C. T. "Curley" Edwinson. I also heard this is not the first encounter he had with the soviet Fighter. I believe there was one in early November 1944.
My great grandfather was a soviet POW who was released in 1949, he said that he was only released because he was still in a physical state fit enough to survive the travell back to germany, and that many of those who werent fit enough stayed. So that makes me think that whilst the overall death rate for POWs in the soviet union may be 36% I think for those who werent sent back early the death rate may well be a lot higher.
Also to give a frame of reference for what was demed "fit" enough, he also said that those who were selected for transport back to germany were given a fatty piece of bacon, and that many died by eating it too quickly as their famished bodies couldnt digest this sudden influx of food. So if the soviets demed these people to be on the more healthy end of the spectrum, i dont really want to think about what state those they didnt consider to be in better health looked like.
Sure, but that death toll was nowhere near as high as among the 3-4 million Soviet soldiers who were starved and worked to death. It was all terrible, obviously, but the idea of painting the captured Wehrmacht soldiers as innocent victims is just silly. There are literally thousands of stories from German soldiers whose experiences as POWs in America and Canada completely changed their Nazi indoctrination. This did not happen the other way around.
@@haeuptlingaberja4927 Whataboutism.
Russians didn't invite nazi germans and nazi Germany treatment of Russians and Ukrainian soldiers were scandalous.
@@haeuptlingaberja4927 What a beautiful example of whataboutism your comment is. A bad thing does not make another bad thing more justifiable. It's all bad and we should learn from it. End of story. Peace.
@@Dogggggggg
I do understand your perspective, but my entire point was the whataboutism that far-right revisionists insist upon. Gauland ist nicht der einzige heutige Nazi, der behauptet, das Dritte Reich sei ein „Vogelschiss“ gewesen. The lost cause "clean, noble Wehrmacht myth." Ain't no whataboutism here, sirrah! How's your Wehrmacht kill ratio thing going?
17:00 Sounds like the Soviets are more interested in industrialization of the Soviet Union by getting as much of a heas start as they can from Germany.
Excellent episode concerning the history of immediate post WWII history.. Trizonia and Bizonia!! My new thing learned for today.. Thanks!!
Thanks for watching.
31:18 the Fat Electrician has a great video on the Air Lift.
Bravo! I hope your crew continues with examining the occupation of the Axis countries in the post war era, as well as what the liberated nations have to go through. I think that this is an area of history that is often glossed over, usually just summed up by the Berlin Airlift and merely the founding of new governments of the European states In the post war era. There's a lot of interesting intricate things to go through- for example the cigarette based economy that popped up right at the end of the war. This is an area and period of European and Asian history that I think could definitely go use a thorough examination and I would definitely look forward to weekly examinations of the aspects of it and how it fits in in the development of the modern economics and government of the European Union as well as the various developments in East Asia and the Middle East... In essence the "hangover" effects of WW II.
Nice example for beginning lighting design/production students on the function of backlight.
Great episode. I am glad you guys are continuing to cover post war Europe. Alot happen that really set up the Cold War and what happened in Germany after they surrendered. You touched on it, but I still can not understand how France was treated as an equal partner in post war Germany. They were defeated by Germany as all of the continent, so why did they get a say in any of post war Germany?
Continue on with post war Europe, there is a lot there for us to learn. I enjoy learning from each of what you put out.
Well, the Soviet Union started off as a faithful ally of Germany, and didn't switch sides until Barbarossa when it was attacked. The invasion of Poland, the start of the war? The Russians did it from the east while the Germans did it from the west. France and the Soviet Union were allies of the West about as much as was Italy.
I met a German veteran (Fallschirmjager) back in the 1980's. After losing 53/60 men in his unit at Monte Cassino, he was sent to the Eastern Front where he ultimately was surrendered to the Soviets. He then spent 2 years mining coal in Siberia before being allowed to return to Germany. He only comment was (in broken English) was the height of understatement ... 'zat was not zo gut zere' ... Indeed.
The French put the Mauser factory back into production to produce K98 rifles and .22 LR training rifles. This continued until the other occupation countries complained.
The Soviets complained, so the French demolished the factory, and later tried (though not very hard) to blame the Americans for this wanton vandalism.
Apart from DEP and SEP, there was MVP - Most valuable prisoners. Scientists and engineers!
Thanks Indy & Spartacus for this documentary. I'd say that there's very very few videos on this subject & it's interesting on what happened to Germany after the war. My great uncle was with the Royal Army Service Corps at the start of the war driving trains (prior to the war he was a train driver for the London, Midland and Scottish Railway LMS). He was given the rank of Captain & during the war he drove trains over the British network, France with the BEF (he was also onboard the RMS Lancastria when it got bombed), back to Britain driving trains over the network, participated with reconstructing the NW Europe rail network including Germany. After the war he was in the British sector with rail reconstruction & Berlin. He also took part in the Berlin Blockade driving trains to Berlin. His war didn't finish until late 1949 where he returned to British Rail as a driver. I remember him commenting about his role during the military occupation in Germany saying that the whole thing was a crap show in the zones of occupation.
I'm hoping that you'll do another documentary soon in regards to former German officers of the armed forces that got positions within the Bundeswehr in the mid 1950's.
Again guys, you do an excellent job with your research & production of videos.
Perhaps he drove trains in West Berlin to distribute the goods to factories and warehouses within the city once it arrived at the airport and after it was reloaded onto train cars. He also may have driven trains filled with food and fuel to a collection point in West Germany where they were being loaded onto the planes.
He just couldn't have been driving trains to and from Berlin during the Soviet blockade because it was surrounded by their zone, and they had completely closed it off to all road and rail traffic coming from West Germany. The only way to get people and cargo into West Berlin during that time was to fly it in.
@@snapdragon6601 when reading history of the Berlin Blockade, it's the airlift that got the primary attention. Yes, road, rail & water transport were blocked but you needed to secure special Soviet permission to go to Berlin. I would say that he drove trains to collection points not far from the airfields but once the blockade was over, he would have had more freedom to go to Berlin. You have to remember also that from August 1944 that his crew were rebuilding the rail network in NW Europe in liberated areas. That's no mean feat to have it up & running in such a short time.
Once again, great work Indy!
Hi Indy and Sparty
Great explanation
Want more of this videos
Thanks
Would you please make a show on the total cost of the war. How much does a jeep cost a aircraft carriers ect
That's great input!. As it so happens im working on something along those lines, stay tuned!
Given the developing Cold War I’m amazed that French wanted even then replicate the dominance France enjoyed over Germany under Napoleon after his victories from 1805-1807
What made them change their minds unless the fact that a series of separate German states would be too weak to resist a potential Soviet invasion crossed their minds
The reason was the same as in WW1 because of the Americans and the British.
I live in Transylvania, Siebenburgen translated into German, a territory where Saxon and Swabian settlers settled starting around 1300. Saxons, Hungarians and Romanians have lived here in good peace for centuries, especially since the territory was under the control of the Austrian Empire. We were united with Romania after WW1 but the German population remained the same. After WW2, hundreds of thousands of ethnic Germans who did not participate in the war were deported to Siberia. (I come from the Reimer family from Codlea/Zeiden in German and at the Evangelical church I counted over 30 men with the name Reimer who lost their lives in the 2 world wars). Upon the return of the survivors from the communist camps in Siberia, each one planted a birch tree as a reminder of where they escaped from. According to official communist sources in Romania, only 20 percent of those deported returned. In some German gardens you see more than a dozen birch trees planted, I think each one for a loved one who never came back. In what statistics are these losses included and what is the estimated number of ethnic Germans dead in Siberia who did not participate in the war and who died in Stalin's gulags after the war.
P.S. I have a friend whose grandfather came from Siberia, on foot, in 1957, who never spoke about the moments he went through. Grandpa Schneider could eat a chicken wing in 3 seconds, without living a trace of meat and he would always excuse himself saying, we do not know what hunger is.
Thank you for the enormous work you do. Niky Reimer Brasov/Kronstadt.
15 million germans lived in eastern europe, including pommerania and eastern prussia before the war. There are now less than 2 million living in the area.
Saying that the overwhelming majority Romanians and Saxon/Swabian colonists and Magyars lived in peace in Transylvania is crazy given Romanians (and the Orthodox) were specifically disenfranchised and kept in serfdom for centuries, and when the Hungarian kingdom was given Transylvania again after the Austro-Hungarian compromise intensive magyarization took place targeting everyone but the privileged Germans. Not that it justifies deporting Germans after WW2 but its funny to see the difference of how the remaining Saxons see themselves vs how things actually were in Transylvania.
By 7:30 as someone raised on the 1948 GCs, I have two key takeaways:
If you couldn’t use POWs as forced Labour, even in roles which didn’t directly assist the war effort, how can the 1948 Convention remove that obligation?
How do you not know how many POWs died? Aren’t there records of the deaths, and the mandatory investigations? Haven’t you got records of the capture and death records?
The number who surrendered at the end of the war was so enormous that those sorts of records couldn't be made. Keep in mind there were also tens of millions of other displaced persons - refugees, camp survivors, forced laborers, people made homeless by bombing or fighting - that the Allies were trying to deal with. They were simply overwhelmed.
@@brucetucker4847 This was even more common on the Eastern front. As Germany began to retreat they (despite stereotypes) didn't keep good records about who was where. Especially of non German troops from allied countries.
This was combined with Russian commanders overstating how many enemy troops they had killed or captured. By the end no one could do more than guess what happened to someone who just "went to fight" and didn't come home.
Will you guys have a video on the creation of NATO from post WW2?
Yesss absolutely! But that will be in in an upcoming series, winter is coming!
Lurking in the background, though never treated as a viable option, was the Morgenthau Plan. Which probably never had a chance of happening, but is sort of fascinating.
It is interesting to note that in 1945 Lusatia wanted to secede from Germany and join Poland or Czechoslovakia. Located in Bautzen, an organization of Sorbs called “Domowina” whose territories had been occupied and colonized by Germans for 900 years wrote petitions to Stalin for the secession of Lusatia from Germany.
Well they should've moved to Poland
Amazing - I never knew about the specific process that transformed Germany into two states post war (bizonia to trizonia spurred from currency reform - but not really currency reform).
I hope there is another episode about the Berlin Air lift. I think its very understate situation, Germans and Brits, people who were shooting each other just years ago, coming together to feed people of berlin in an impossibly new plan, which happens to work is a hopeful tale to end this sad chapter of human civilization.
Germans and Brits? I fear you may have left out another rather significant participant in that operation.
As a US babyboomer I have been extremely critical of US postwar realpolitik so it is interesting in learning more of the immediate postwar situation.
@tomschmidt381 The U.S. Army's official histories on preparing to govern occupied areas -- creation of civil affairs as a function -- and the occupation of Germany 1944-1946 are both good reads on this topic. Jean Edward Smith's bio of Lucius Clay, U.S. military governor for Germany, is more easily digested and looks at the career path of an officer who ascended to 4-star rank having never led Soldiers in combat.
Regarding the Rheinwiesenlager, it is important to rememer that the US army was not prepared for the surrender of that many Germans, especially after the Ruhr-pocket surrendered. And supply of supplies, like food and other stuff was already scarce in war torn Europe.
Not to mention there were something like 40 million displaced persons to feed, shelter, and get back to where they belonged (when that was even possible). Any additional food given to German prisoners would have been taken from those people.
I really enjoyed that episode. So much has been written and said abount WW2 but I feel comparatively little about the postwar period. I find this period right after the war, or "Stunde Null" as many Germans called it, very interesting and important for the understanding of later political developments both in Europe and worldwide.
Excellent work!
I was told years ago that Montgomery advocated for a quick return to industrial production in Germany. And heavy machinery was remarkably resistant to damage by bombing.
A good number of German POWs worked in coal mining in Soviet Union and Poland. Coal was absolutely vital for rebuilding industry, infrastructure and heating of homes. When my father was working in Silesian mines in mid 60s there were still some German speaking workers present and they weren't native Silesians.
Brilliant episode! Thank you guys and gals!
The Czech coup, when the KGB began to leave its infamous "calling card" by throwing its political opponents and dissidents out of tall buildings....
I never knew there was a _fourth_ defenestration of Prague. Maybe it's something in the water?
Some things never change.
My Dad was in the US Army stationed in Germany during this time. My Mom was German!!
Regarding "Trizonia": There was even a German Carneval song about this:"Wir sind die Eingeborenen von Trizonesien" (We are the natives of Trizonia). The joke here is that Trizonesien sounds very similar to the German names of various Pacific countries like Polynesien, Micronesien etc. The song was so popular in 1948/49 that it became some sort of imnofficial national anthem for what was about to become West Germany.
13:23 Ironic because France was not broken up into separate states after the defeat of Napoleon.
France had been one nation for centuries. Germany became so in recent history.
Can you guys do a video on the clearing and researching on the allies side of the concentration camps? Also, the research of crimes committed by such and such
Well yes, we started in the War Against Humanity series several months ago, and we’ll get back with more about the post war work, including the documentation for the Nuremberg trials, and the trials themselves.
You can already see the final moments of the Holocaust and the beginning of the aftermath in these two videos:
The Last Days of Auschwitz - War Against Humanity 126
ua-cam.com/video/6rgBJF_8vWc/v-deo.html
Liberation of the Nazi Camps - War Against Humanity 131
ua-cam.com/video/yolqCuR7LaU/v-deo.html
If all aggressors were to be punished for starting WWII, Soviet Union was allied to Hitler’s government in early stages if the war and had to be charged with waging multiple aggressive wars, crimes against humanity and war crimes.
But this fact is conveniently forgotten by most.
I doubt the Poles will forget the Katyn Forest massacres.
While this is true, US racism towards the Japanese, and conquest of the Philippines, were among the drivers of Japan's attack on the USA.
@@stephengraham1153 The Katyn massacres specifically, yes. Because they were documented
The USSR did their utmost to try to hide their atrocities. Sometimes there's a lot of crimes that they committed and made sure to hide; such that they are only known via the memories of very old, almost dead people, or unrelated reports(for example a 1952 article about a medical campaign to combat syphilis and gonorrhea in Eastern European soviet states indicated that soviets raped every girl/woman they could catch)
Unfortunately many atrocities that should never be forgotten have already been forgotten
@@stephengraham1153 The Poles won’t forget, but the West as a whole won’t bother to know and will still try to build cooperative relationship with Russia.
I keep mentioning this on various UA-cam channels.
You mentioned death % rates of german PoWs in most countries they were leased to or captured by; however the Polish figures were missing. Does a figure for this exist and was just an oversight, or are these missing/caught up with the Soviet figures?
As a Pole, I never encountered the figures. If I had to guess, it would be worse than any of western figures but probably better than Soviet POWs, mostly because of much better weather and climate. I think they were used mostly to de-rubbling the cities and doing crude repairs to buildings.
In Berlin, the French got two British districts in the north. Originally, the Soviets got eight, and U.S. and UK six each. With the French, it was 8 USSR, 6 US, 4 UK and 2 FR. The French got zero from the U.S.
The USA gave them everything they deserved.
Why did the British put up with giving the French things post WW2 first parts of Germany and second districts of Berlin? was it plainly down to Churchill being a Francophile?
Yes, you are absolutely correct! Thank you for catching that one. Hope you liked the episode!
@Sebastian_Brandstetter , service with the U.S. Berlin Brigade in the 1980s caused me to dive into literature of the post-war period. It took a long time and a lot of work and patience by the Germans and western allies, a free and democratic Germany was achieved.
Such a great episode this was.
Thank you for your comment!
-TimeGhost Ambassador
Good stuff. A fascinating part of history, oft overlooked. Can I recommend Tony Judt's Postwar as further reading?
Great video!!!
This is a video I was waiting for. Thanks for it. It would also be interesting to have a video on the Nazis who fled Germany, especially to South America, where they thrived on the assets they took with them. There were even cases as that of Colonia Dignidad in Chile, which actively supported the military 1973 coup. This is important, since, for better or for worse, there's lingering legacy from those people.
You should take every country in Europe and explain what happened after the war with them. Thank you.
Fantastic. A wealth of facts, really more interesting than those last few months of the war in the ETO...
the phrase "the soviets took everything that's not nailed down" is pretty funny actually, because they dismantled and took with them a lot of the railways, which were very much nailed down, in the later GDR. source: worked with a lot of old railway workers in the former GDR 10 years ago
Sparty and Indy together, great video
There's a great movie about young German POWs clearing mines in Dennark called Land of Mine.
Major Ivan Hurst was very happy that the Germans did squirrel all that stuff away, otherwise he would not have been able to get Volkswagen back on its feet and get those military vehicles made for the British army.
I thought I was versed in postwar Germany. I just learned an awful lot.
curious: how many man hours by the timeghost team to put this together- impressive and exhausting effort
The man-hour man here, so this one was a though climb and the research took me forever, so I'd say, maybe 30?
Now imagine if the Germans won the war... Woe to the vanquished
Yes, but the german civilians that were genocided and deported from eastern europe were also not at fault for that, so your relativisation is misplaced and frankly in poor taste
Generalplan Ost.
Shut up Soviet-apologist. What had the German civilians done to the Russians?
@@deviousalemanni4235 Those civilians didn't have a problem colonizing Slavic lands and turning against their own neighbors. They got off easy for what they did.
First of all: “An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”, and second, "Those civilians didn't have a problem colonizing Slavic lands", they didn't colonise anything, those were Prussians and later Germans whos ancestors had lived in Schlesien, Pommern, Danzing and Königsberg for centuries. And even IF they colonised the lands, again, in different words, "Two wrongs don't make one right".
There is a lot of information regarding the World War I reparations paid by Germany. Are you planning an episode about the World War 2 reparations?
No that you mention it, that's a great idea ... 🤔
This episode had a lot of new information for me 👏
My barber when I was growing up had been an Italian soldier who was captured by the British. He told me that the Brits maintained order by threatening to transfer prisoners to the French. “The French, they shoot you!”
After being fed British 'food' they probably asked for death
The Russians plundered not only East Germany but also all the other states they had occupied. In the 70th I spoke with a former German POW who had been interned in Russia. He mentioned that even at the beginnings of the 1950th he had seen whole mountains of East German equipment and machinery rusting near a train station deep in Russia. Lots of the stuff that Russians looted after the war ended, was just waisted.
I knew an East German engineer who expressed his frustration at being expected to get plant going that had rusted to nothing or been dismantled so badly that it was beyond repair. But the USSR wanted to deindustrialise East Germany. Actually, so did many Americans.
@@Quran_Alone_Dawah probably beecase of the soviet union being a closed country with controlled media. not because of what you say. Afterall the first nations arent known for their headwear.
Sadly, there was looting done in Germany by some western Allied troops as well. From what I've read, among other examples one British officer was discovered to have gone into an German noble family's castle and had his subordinates pack up old chairs and books for shipment back to his own estate, while a group of American servicemen were found to be stealing artworks out of a national museum to sell back home or elsewhere (an embarrassed Army WAC returned one of the paintings to the collection after she had bought it from some of the fellas, as they had lied to her that it was taken from a government building). Thankfully, despite these incidents occurring the western powers at least made a stronger effort to punish looters and thieves (two leading American personnel involved in the art thefts were court-martialed from an old newspaper article I found).
Don't you know, the disastrous economy of the east was caused by the machinations of British and American capitalists? Oh, and the Jews. /s
Communism was NEVER renounced for its efficiency - in people or economics!
The treatment of German civilians during and after the war is grotesque. Thank you for not covering up this tragic history.