I never knew how deep the combat system was, with suplexes and submissions. It's too bad the game wasn't as successful as it should've been. Suzuki's plan seemed epic.
Honestly, I would have been so fine with just a port of this combat system for Shenmue 3, but I understand why that wouldn’t have been as simple as we make it out to be. At the very least, I hope we can get a more complex system in Shenmue 4 that pays homage to Shenmue’s roots as Virtua Fighter RPG and sees the return of many removed mechanics such as blocking, armlocking, throwing, countering, and not to mention, all of Ryo’s special moves (like Shadow Blade, Swallow Flip, Demon's Triangle), which were supposed to be a big deal but were in fact nowhere to be seen in Shenmue 3. 🤦♂
Great video. As a fan of Shenmue since the first day it was released in the US, I knew most of this stuff, but you still taught me a couple new things! This combat engine had so much depth and finesse that the game never really explained. My biggest regret about Shenmue 3 will always be that they didn't bring back this combat engine. What we got in that game was just... well, "not good" is an understatement. When Shenmue 4 happens, they NEED to bring back the VF engine, or at least build something equally good. Here's hoping that happens sooner rather than later!
I couldn't agree more. I understand why Suzuki-san and his team had to go for that cheap, oversimplified system in Shenmue 3, but considering how much important martial arts are in the series, it would be better if it didn't make a comeback... We can only hope a miracle happens and Sega and YS Net join forces for Shenmue 4. Only in that case, there could be a chance the Virtua Fighter system, or something based on it, makes its return! 🙌
This helps explain why I found Chai so frustrating, as well as the combat in general. IIRC, one thing I never got the hang of with blocking is that it felt like the block animation prevents Ryo from acting for almost as long as it 'stuns' the enemy, so it was difficult to respond with a move. But maybe I need to only use specific counter moves in that situation, instead of regular attacks...
The combat does take some getting used to, and it doesn’t help that there’s no true practice mode (sparring doesn’t count) to let the player get accustomed with it beforehand. Admittedly, you don’t have much time to strike back when blocking, because Ryo is indeed stuck in the blocking state at first, but usually you’re able to get a move out before the enemy recovers. Counter moves are only available with ducking, and they’re highly recommended as most of them are incredibly OP. Chai is frustrating because he’s an actual threat compared to all the other pushovers Ryo fights throughout Yokosuka. He blocks a lot, dodges a lot, escapes throws at random, has several moves that are difficult to deal with, does high damage very quickly, has an odd hitbox that turns some of Ryo’s strongest moves ineffective/hard to use effectively, and the list goes on. Blocking does work great against him, but the time you have to punish him is more demanding (for some reason). Take too long and there’s a good chance he will block or dodge out of the way. 😬
@@RichardPayne5 Interesting. In terms of simulation, some randomness and changes to how the mechanics work against Chai makes sense, but in terms of player experience, it's an unusual, kind of cryptic way to do things. Thanks for explaining.
Another amazing showcase of Shenmue's fighting system. I tend to have a "spam buttons and hope" kind of approach so it is enlightening to see it all laid out in such detail!
Thanks Switch, glad to hear you’ve enjoyed it! Honestly, that’s how I used to play too, since the game doesn’t tell you about any of this. I guess I need to thank my 70 Man Battle time attack addiction for helping me figure out all of Ryo’s techniques! 😅
I've been dying for someone to cover this! 😆 Shenmue is the only game I know of where the combat incentivizes grappling for both offense and defense, rather than just mindlessly button mash. Ryo is a master of Japanese Jiu-jitsu, a style that has many throws, arm locks, leg locks and choking techniques; which makes the decision to exclude throws from Shenmue 3 all the more baffling. 🤨I do hope they manage to incorporate throws back into Shenmue for the next game.
You’re absolutely right. I don’t want to bash on Shenmue III too much as we should be grateful it even got made, but it really does a disservice to Ryo as a character and martial artist. Gone are all his trademark techniques, and even most of the moves he has learned throughout his journey up to that point, effectively throwing away the whole essence of the Hazuki style. You’re telling me Ryo can’t even use “Darkside Hazuki”, which has his own name in it? Yup. Oh, and what about the Swallow Flip? Or Shadow Blade? Or Demon Triangle? Weren’t they supposed to be invaluable?... I guess not. I really, really hope Suzuki-san and his team are able to put more time and care into the martial art aspect of the series, as Shenmue III left a lot to be desired on this aspect.
We must be optimistic and keep sharing our love for Shenmue if we want to see the series continue and hopefully reach its end. Shenmue 3 is the living proof that anything is possible. Despite its shortcomings, it's still a decent game in its own right and gives us hope Shenmue 4 will be a thing sooner than we expect. If I had to guess when it's going to be announced, I have a feeling it will either happen in late 2024 or anytime during 2025. Only time will tell though, we must keep playing our part! 🥋
@@RichardPayne5 You're probably right. I don’t know why, but I was angry after finishing Shenmue 3. Although during the game itself, everything seemed to suit me. It’s just not what I’ve been waiting for for so many years. But we need to hope for the best, as you said. We need to create content about the game and show that we love it and are looking forward to its continuation. And you do a great job with this. I hope you will continue)
@@ChairFace770 Thanks for the support man, I appreciate the kind words! I completely understand where you’re coming from. I’m not an old-school Shenmue fan, as I only got into it thanks to the HD remasters, so I didn’t have to suffer the 18-year wait, but if I were, I would have had such incredibly high expectations, especially coming from Shenmue II’s infamous cliffhanger, I can’t even imagine how it must have felt to realize Shenmue 3 just doesn’t compare to the classic Dreamcast titles. I still feel it’s a good game and it did a good job recapturing that “Shenmue” feel and worldbuilding through the attention to detail and the daily routine cycle we’ve learned to love. Unfortunately, I feel the game just did not make enough progress in the plot department (we’ve barely learned anything), the combat is serviceable at best, but can’t hold a candle to the Virtua Fighter engine, and some of the choices the team made were definitely questionable (Ryo being unable to use most of the moves he worked hard to learn previously, Bailu Village being modern when Shenhua clearly told us it wasn’t, Ryo struggling against weak Chi You Men thugs when he has defeated two gangs of criminals and freaking MASTER Baihu… should I go on?). The only way forward is trying to look beyond these shortcomings and focusing on the good, showing SEGA and YSNet we’re still passionate about the series and we’re willing to support a future Shenmue game. 🙌
Your videos are just selling on how much this game was ahead of it's time. The more i take it all into account the more impressed i get. If the next Shenmue game see's the light of day the combat just needs to be as good if not a upgrade of this. VIRTUA FIGHTER ENGINE PLEASE.
My thoughts exactly! We can only hope a miracle happens and we not only get Shenmue 4, but also a new Virtua Fighter-based combat system along with it. The hype would be unreal! 🔥
@@RichardPayne5 If Shenmue 4 really puts the emphasis on the words "Virtua Fighter RPG" and goes all out with it. It would he AMAZING to see it! Hype for sure!
@shawnz12ss 6:25 That’s the power of the juggle combo technique! Check out my juggle combo video tutorial to learn more → ua-cam.com/video/vmdku1dWgR0/v-deo.html 7:39 I take it you’re referring to that complicated multi-part move? That’s called Arm Break Fire. It’s a technique you can buy at Bunkado Antiques in Dobuita for 3000¥, and it’s arguably one of the most difficult moves to use in the game. The move is divided in 3 different parts, which must be input in this order: Right*, Left*, Left*, Throw [Part 1] | Punch button [Part 2] | Punch button + Kick button [Part 3]. *Keep in mind directional inputs change depending on Ryo’s orientation to the camera, but I’m sure you knew that already. You are allowed to take your time inputting the sequence, but Ryo will abort the throw if you’re too slow or make a mistake. As for Shenmue III, the combat is indeed serviceable at best, but unfortunately Yu Suzuki, despite being the father of Virtua Fighter, doesn’t actually own the game and its assets, as those belong to SEGA, so that could’ve only happened with SEGA’s approval, which likely didn’t care about supporting Shenmue III in the first place.
I'm not sure I understand. If you're referring to dodging throws and counters, I'm afraid there's no way to do just that. You can however avoid them by keeping your distance from the opponent and not spamming moves you know can trigger a counterattack. Against Chai for example, it’s a good idea to avoid using punches altogether, as most of Ryo’s punches can be countered (doesn’t happen often, but it’s a possibility), and to try not staying too close to Chai because his jump throw can only be avoided if you’re out of reach. As for throws, almost all of them can be escaped by pressing the throw button right before Ryo is locked into a throw move, but the timing can be tricky. I talk about this mechanic in the video from 11:54 to 14:12 if you’re interested into learning more.
Hey there, well I do talk about that in the description of the video. Shenmue 2 does make use of the same combat system introduced in Shenmue 1, but it’s not a 1 to 1 carbon copy. Many things were either updated or simply changed, but the core concept is overall the same. For instance, the guard techniques I talk about in this video follow more or less the same rules, with the exception of blocking and ducking. In Shenmue 1, you just need to press Y while standing still before an attack and Ryo will block or duck. In Shenmue 2, Ryo will most likely dodge sideways or roll away if you press Y too early, and will only block if you press Y at the “right” time, which is usually the very last moment, and only if the move is blockable; so yeah, it’s way more unforgiving in Shenmue 2.
That's right, I do mention that at 10:27 and in the video description. No matter the distance and timing, those armlock kicks will never ever connect in Shenmue HD, most likely because of a bug born sometime during d3t's strenuous task of porting Shenmue without having access to its source code (if I remember it right?). I don't remember if those kicks still work in Shenmue II HD, or if they're broken there as well, haven't played it in a long time. 😅
@@RichardPayne5They did have access to the source code, the HD ports have a good number of errors, this could've just been the result of the rushed development the project had, not to mention they had to fix hundreds of other bugs on patches (they could barely keep up and didn't have the time to fix everything) It also didn't help that 3dt's team was about 20 people also all the notes that came with the source code were in Japanese, nobody at the studio knew Japanese so they just used Google translate which ended up causing a lot of issues when trying to port the game's logic to new hardware. For these reasons I prefer to avoid the HD ports and just emulate whenever I revisit the first two Shenmue games, fortunately Dreamcast emulation has gotten pretty good in terms of performance and accuracy with emulators like Flycast and Redream.
![Shenmue - How to juggle combo [Combat tutorial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vmdku1dWgR0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Shenmue - How to juggle combo [Combat tutorial]](/img/tr.png)
I never knew how deep the combat system was, with suplexes and submissions. It's too bad the game wasn't as successful as it should've been. Suzuki's plan seemed epic.
Man I wish they'd kept this combat system in Shenmue 3, would have made that game 10x better
Honestly, I would have been so fine with just a port of this combat system for Shenmue 3, but I understand why that wouldn’t have been as simple as we make it out to be.
At the very least, I hope we can get a more complex system in Shenmue 4 that pays homage to Shenmue’s roots as Virtua Fighter RPG and sees the return of many removed mechanics such as blocking, armlocking, throwing, countering, and not to mention, all of Ryo’s special moves (like Shadow Blade, Swallow Flip, Demon's Triangle), which were supposed to be a big deal but were in fact nowhere to be seen in Shenmue 3. 🤦♂
6:40
"Stop it, He's already dead" X)
Nagashima sure can take a beating! 😂
Great video. As a fan of Shenmue since the first day it was released in the US, I knew most of this stuff, but you still taught me a couple new things! This combat engine had so much depth and finesse that the game never really explained. My biggest regret about Shenmue 3 will always be that they didn't bring back this combat engine. What we got in that game was just... well, "not good" is an understatement. When Shenmue 4 happens, they NEED to bring back the VF engine, or at least build something equally good. Here's hoping that happens sooner rather than later!
I couldn't agree more. I understand why Suzuki-san and his team had to go for that cheap, oversimplified system in Shenmue 3, but considering how much important martial arts are in the series, it would be better if it didn't make a comeback... We can only hope a miracle happens and Sega and YS Net join forces for Shenmue 4. Only in that case, there could be a chance the Virtua Fighter system, or something based on it, makes its return! 🙌
This helps explain why I found Chai so frustrating, as well as the combat in general. IIRC, one thing I never got the hang of with blocking is that it felt like the block animation prevents Ryo from acting for almost as long as it 'stuns' the enemy, so it was difficult to respond with a move. But maybe I need to only use specific counter moves in that situation, instead of regular attacks...
The combat does take some getting used to, and it doesn’t help that there’s no true practice mode (sparring doesn’t count) to let the player get accustomed with it beforehand.
Admittedly, you don’t have much time to strike back when blocking, because Ryo is indeed stuck in the blocking state at first, but usually you’re able to get a move out before the enemy recovers. Counter moves are only available with ducking, and they’re highly recommended as most of them are incredibly OP.
Chai is frustrating because he’s an actual threat compared to all the other pushovers Ryo fights throughout Yokosuka. He blocks a lot, dodges a lot, escapes throws at random, has several moves that are difficult to deal with, does high damage very quickly, has an odd hitbox that turns some of Ryo’s strongest moves ineffective/hard to use effectively, and the list goes on. Blocking does work great against him, but the time you have to punish him is more demanding (for some reason). Take too long and there’s a good chance he will block or dodge out of the way. 😬
@@RichardPayne5 Interesting. In terms of simulation, some randomness and changes to how the mechanics work against Chai makes sense, but in terms of player experience, it's an unusual, kind of cryptic way to do things. Thanks for explaining.
Another amazing showcase of Shenmue's fighting system. I tend to have a "spam buttons and hope" kind of approach so it is enlightening to see it all laid out in such detail!
Thanks Switch, glad to hear you’ve enjoyed it! Honestly, that’s how I used to play too, since the game doesn’t tell you about any of this. I guess I need to thank my 70 Man Battle time attack addiction for helping me figure out all of Ryo’s techniques! 😅
I've been dying for someone to cover this! 😆 Shenmue is the only game I know of where the combat incentivizes grappling for both offense and defense, rather than just mindlessly button mash. Ryo is a master of Japanese Jiu-jitsu, a style that has many throws, arm locks, leg locks and choking techniques; which makes the decision to exclude throws from Shenmue 3 all the more baffling. 🤨I do hope they manage to incorporate throws back into Shenmue for the next game.
You’re absolutely right. I don’t want to bash on Shenmue III too much as we should be grateful it even got made, but it really does a disservice to Ryo as a character and martial artist.
Gone are all his trademark techniques, and even most of the moves he has learned throughout his journey up to that point, effectively throwing away the whole essence of the Hazuki style.
You’re telling me Ryo can’t even use “Darkside Hazuki”, which has his own name in it? Yup. Oh, and what about the Swallow Flip? Or Shadow Blade? Or Demon Triangle? Weren’t they supposed to be invaluable?... I guess not.
I really, really hope Suzuki-san and his team are able to put more time and care into the martial art aspect of the series, as Shenmue III left a lot to be desired on this aspect.
It's very optimistic of you to assume that Shenmue 4 will come out at all.
We must be optimistic and keep sharing our love for Shenmue if we want to see the series continue and hopefully reach its end. Shenmue 3 is the living proof that anything is possible. Despite its shortcomings, it's still a decent game in its own right and gives us hope Shenmue 4 will be a thing sooner than we expect.
If I had to guess when it's going to be announced, I have a feeling it will either happen in late 2024 or anytime during 2025. Only time will tell though, we must keep playing our part! 🥋
@@RichardPayne5 You're probably right. I don’t know why, but I was angry after finishing Shenmue 3. Although during the game itself, everything seemed to suit me. It’s just not what I’ve been waiting for for so many years. But we need to hope for the best, as you said. We need to create content about the game and show that we love it and are looking forward to its continuation. And you do a great job with this. I hope you will continue)
@@ChairFace770 Thanks for the support man, I appreciate the kind words!
I completely understand where you’re coming from. I’m not an old-school Shenmue fan, as I only got into it thanks to the HD remasters, so I didn’t have to suffer the 18-year wait, but if I were, I would have had such incredibly high expectations, especially coming from Shenmue II’s infamous cliffhanger, I can’t even imagine how it must have felt to realize Shenmue 3 just doesn’t compare to the classic Dreamcast titles.
I still feel it’s a good game and it did a good job recapturing that “Shenmue” feel and worldbuilding through the attention to detail and the daily routine cycle we’ve learned to love. Unfortunately, I feel the game just did not make enough progress in the plot department (we’ve barely learned anything), the combat is serviceable at best, but can’t hold a candle to the Virtua Fighter engine, and some of the choices the team made were definitely questionable (Ryo being unable to use most of the moves he worked hard to learn previously, Bailu Village being modern when Shenhua clearly told us it wasn’t, Ryo struggling against weak Chi You Men thugs when he has defeated two gangs of criminals and freaking MASTER Baihu… should I go on?).
The only way forward is trying to look beyond these shortcomings and focusing on the good, showing SEGA and YSNet we’re still passionate about the series and we’re willing to support a future Shenmue game. 🙌
Your videos are just selling on how much this game was ahead of it's time. The more i take it all into account the more impressed i get.
If the next Shenmue game see's the light of day the combat just needs to be as good if not a upgrade of this.
VIRTUA FIGHTER ENGINE PLEASE.
My thoughts exactly! We can only hope a miracle happens and we not only get Shenmue 4, but also a new Virtua Fighter-based combat system along with it. The hype would be unreal! 🔥
@@RichardPayne5 If Shenmue 4 really puts the emphasis on the words "Virtua Fighter RPG" and goes all out with it. It would he AMAZING to see it! Hype for sure!
6:25 is wild
Bro wtf I never seen that 7:39
It’s sad shenmue three lacked any of this depth, no reason that man couldn’t of borrowed vf5’s engine when it was his creation
@shawnz12ss 6:25 That’s the power of the juggle combo technique! Check out my juggle combo video tutorial to learn more → ua-cam.com/video/vmdku1dWgR0/v-deo.html
7:39 I take it you’re referring to that complicated multi-part move? That’s called Arm Break Fire. It’s a technique you can buy at Bunkado Antiques in Dobuita for 3000¥, and it’s arguably one of the most difficult moves to use in the game.
The move is divided in 3 different parts, which must be input in this order:
Right*, Left*, Left*, Throw [Part 1] | Punch button [Part 2] | Punch button + Kick button [Part 3].
*Keep in mind directional inputs change depending on Ryo’s orientation to the camera, but I’m sure you knew that already.
You are allowed to take your time inputting the sequence, but Ryo will abort the throw if you’re too slow or make a mistake.
As for Shenmue III, the combat is indeed serviceable at best, but unfortunately Yu Suzuki, despite being the father of Virtua Fighter, doesn’t actually own the game and its assets, as those belong to SEGA, so that could’ve only happened with SEGA’s approval, which likely didn’t care about supporting Shenmue III in the first place.
Appreciate the video as I recently bought Shenmue 1-2 and I want to have a deep dive into the combat.
That's awesome to hear! Let me know if you have any doubts about the combat along the way, I'll be happy to help. :)
Dodge whiles being grappled can escape the grapple or counter.
I'm not sure I understand. If you're referring to dodging throws and counters, I'm afraid there's no way to do just that. You can however avoid them by keeping your distance from the opponent and not spamming moves you know can trigger a counterattack. Against Chai for example, it’s a good idea to avoid using punches altogether, as most of Ryo’s punches can be countered (doesn’t happen often, but it’s a possibility), and to try not staying too close to Chai because his jump throw can only be avoided if you’re out of reach.
As for throws, almost all of them can be escaped by pressing the throw button right before Ryo is locked into a throw move, but the timing can be tricky. I talk about this mechanic in the video from 11:54 to 14:12 if you’re interested into learning more.
hi is shenmue 2 still has the same combat system as shenmue 1
Hey there, well I do talk about that in the description of the video. Shenmue 2 does make use of the same combat system introduced in Shenmue 1, but it’s not a 1 to 1 carbon copy. Many things were either updated or simply changed, but the core concept is overall the same.
For instance, the guard techniques I talk about in this video follow more or less the same rules, with the exception of blocking and ducking. In Shenmue 1, you just need to press Y while standing still before an attack and Ryo will block or duck. In Shenmue 2, Ryo will most likely dodge sideways or roll away if you press Y too early, and will only block if you press Y at the “right” time, which is usually the very last moment, and only if the move is blockable; so yeah, it’s way more unforgiving in Shenmue 2.
@@RichardPayne5 thank you
Its not work on remaster armlock while kick behind enemy cant be hit
That's right, I do mention that at 10:27 and in the video description. No matter the distance and timing, those armlock kicks will never ever connect in Shenmue HD, most likely because of a bug born sometime during d3t's strenuous task of porting Shenmue without having access to its source code (if I remember it right?). I don't remember if those kicks still work in Shenmue II HD, or if they're broken there as well, haven't played it in a long time. 😅
@@RichardPayne5They did have access to the source code, the HD ports have a good number of errors, this could've just been the result of the rushed development the project had, not to mention they had to fix hundreds of other bugs on patches (they could barely keep up and didn't have the time to fix everything) It also didn't help that 3dt's team was about 20 people also all the notes that came with the source code were in Japanese, nobody at the studio knew Japanese so they just used Google translate which ended up causing a lot of issues when trying to port the game's logic to new hardware.
For these reasons I prefer to avoid the HD ports and just emulate whenever I revisit the first two Shenmue games, fortunately Dreamcast emulation has gotten pretty good in terms of performance and accuracy with emulators like Flycast and Redream.