'03 is always going to be my first choice when I want to take in some FMA. It tells its story so beautifully. I literally decided I wanted to rewatch Brotherhood last week, and my natural thought was that I had to watch '03 first to really enjoy Brotherhood. One thing about '03 that will forever stick with me is in that very scene showed here. The use of "Brothers" towards the end of the funeral scene is so well placed. It's always been used as a reminder of how deep Ed and Al's bond goes, but here it's used as Mustang mourns Hughes. It's the the first and last indication you get of just how much Maes means to Roy. Roy allows himself to break for just a moment and the song just makes it hurt even more. Then it transitions to Ed, Al and Winry, "Brothers" still playing, and they talk about Hughes and how much he cares about them. Then Ed sees him waving and he's gone. As if Ed finally realizes how much Hughes means to him but it's too late. And he doesn't even realize it.
One more thing I’d like to add: Brotherhood has no stakes. When watching the series, I grew to not feel any worry for the characters no matter what situation they happen to be in since I could tell everyone was going to make it out alive and practically unscathed. This HEAVILY downgraded my viewing experience, especially during the final battle. “Oh, literally everyone just died. Golly gee, I wonder if they’ll all be okay.” Brotherhood attempts to artificially heighten its stakes with these world-shattering events, but it just makes it look even more pathetic in my eyes. I watched ‘03 second, but the first thing I noticed about it (aside from the development of Ed and Al’s relationship as well as a few other things) was the fact that it wasn’t afraid to get its hands dirty. Even if I didn’t fear for the characters’ LIVES, I feared for their sanity, whether or not they would achieve their goals, the moral dilemma of if their goals are even worth achieving, and so much more. One of the most notable scenes in this regard is when Edward is trudging through the countryside, trying to find Al after he was dropped off with a bunch of cargo… and gets mugged, now deprived of both of his artificial limbs. I don’t cry often when watching anything anymore, but this scene did it for me because how well it showcases Ed’s complete and utter helpless in this situation.
> “Oh, literally everyone just died. Golly gee, I wonder if they’ll all be okay.” If you think about it, Father lost the moment Hohenheim finished his "moon shadow" transmutation circle.
@@etheri0n959 How childish. Both camps in the FMA debatte are so unable to view each story for what it is, as if it were impossible to enjoy this version without trashing that version. Alan Moore said, “If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience, they would be the artists.” When you judge a piece of art, the criteria you’re supposed to use is how closely the artist achieved their goals. If you don’t like musicals, that’s fine. That doesn’t mean that all musicals are bad. They could be a very well done example of something that you don’t enjoy. There’s a fine line there many people struggle to understand, which is the difference between talking about the piece of art, and talking about yourself and your own tastes and emotions. While I think that there is more to Brotherhood and the Manga then people might think (check out youtubers "Kato", "Under The Scope", "Aleczandxr" and "Wisecrack") I also believe that all three FMA version are pretty damn good. Sadly, "Fullmetal Alchemist Retrospective | A Series Made Fullmetal" seems to be the only youtube essay that can praise all versions without, being critical without whining. Perhaps you'd like it to.
@@bby7630 It has a lot of the same jokes. But they are more of a problem in 03 since they undercut the darker tone that 2003 is going for. I like a lot that 2003 did. But I also find it sad they took out Armstrong's entire arc without replacing it with something else. They also made the already unlikeable Izumi Curtis even more of a bitch and wrote Hughes and Hawkeye out of the ishval war. I wish they had waited for the entire manga to end bevor doing their version. Or that they would have taken more time. It's pretty obvious that 2003 was somewhat written on the fly. Seems rather obvious that Dante, for example, wasn't meant to be the villain from the start. I think 2003 could have been even better if they had taken more time.
@@samlerf Allthough I agree with most things you said, I tottaly disagree with the ''the criteria you are supposed to use is how closely the artist achieved their goals''. If the artists intent was to make extremely stunning visuals and they achieved it, it shouldnt be an excuse why everything else is bad.
@@gangpug2567 Opinions are opinions. Nobody can fault you for liking or diskling anything - at least in principle. It's simply important to note that one's own taste is not objective quality. But to stay in your example. If all the artist cared about is stunning visuals and it did exactly that then its somewhat problematic to shame it for not also achieving this or that. Remember how the LOTR films (unlike the novels) portrayed the relationship between Sam and Frodo as weirdly homoerotic? Well, that's not what was intended, even if the films themselves, as far as I know. So If I, hoping for more gay representation, accuse the story for not providing me that then I'm simply mistaken - since the story was never about gay representation.
I love both anime. but I think I prefer 03 due to it giving more time to alot of its plot points, having a more consistent tone, and also how it handled alot of the characters
This is a good video. Brotherhood often lacks the subtlety and clever writing that 03 has. On that Ed and Pride scene-- yes I do think it's kind of ridiculous. However, Ed turning himself into a philosopher's stone is foreshadowed-- when ed is impaled at Briggs, he closes up the wound by envisioning himself as a philosopher's stone, using his own life energy, as it's the only option available to him at the time (though he eventually finds a philosopher's stone). So there is a precedent for using his own life force to turn himself into a philosopher's stone. A scene I find more ridiculous is when Ling pulls on Greed while Father tries to use him as a new philosopher's stone-- it's supposed to be a dramatic character moment but it just feels like a weird over-the-top tug of war. Brotherhood is more melodramatic than 03 and feels more like a shonen anime, while 03 feels more like a serious and dramatic story, with a sci-fi aesthetic.
True, I've actually recently re watched the briggs scene and I noticed that there was build up towards it, though it is still ridiculous. For the Greed scene, I found it to be pretty dumb, but at the same time, I did like the dynamic between Greed and Ling, so I let it slide. Thanks for the comment.
That scene with turning yourself into a philosopher stone is also followed up on at the end when Al says that he and Ed are working on a new alchemic concept where you “take in 10, give a part p yourself, and give back 11”. This idea of selflessness plays a big role into the theme of humanity’s willingness to prevail over evil, and its part of why Father underestimated humans and lost. I would argue that this concept was present in the story as early as the brothers’ human transmutation. Ed sacrifices his arm to bring Al back. A soul being bonded to armor was something that people thought was only possible with a philosopher stone, but Ed put the burden on himself to bypass the stone. I really like the concept behind the pride scene and I think it’s a brilliant implementation of that theme into the story. But yeah it was hella cheesy lol. FMAB’s story writing is top tier, but the execution is tiring to sit through sometimes. That’s why FMAB isn’t my favorite anime, and that’s why I don’t give it a 10/10. Even though I am still a pretty big fan of the show regardless.
Something that makes me laugh is how Brothers from 2003 feels more like a lullaby then Trisha's Lullaby. Trisha's sounds like something that will endues night terrors.
@@etheri0n959 I think because the manga was still in production, Bones had to slow down and take their time (aka, pad) characters. Which gave us more dimensions and grounded characters. I will say Brotherhood is a good anime, but 03 is a better story.
this is an amazing video. as a decade long 03 fan, i can say for certain that the near-universal praise of brotherhood is so exhausting. 03 is constantly picked apart for the smallest things, yet people act like brotherhood is a flawless masterpiece. this video was cathartic to say the least. i agreed with everything you brought up and i'm so glad you said some of these criticisms that i dared not mention for fear of getting blasted with hate. but these things need to be said! brotherhood simply is not as good as people say it is. thanks for making this!
...I'm going to agree with you- I like both animes, but when it comes to soundtrack, FMA '03 is clearly better. I think the soundtrack of FMA: Brotherhood is not so memorable.
The 2003 series has always resonated with me on a deeper and more personal level than Brotherhood. The older I've gotten, the more this is the case. As far as Conqueror of Shamballa goes, I know it has its detractors, even among fans of the original FMA, but I personally found it to be a good enough way to conclude the story of the original. I know it gets weird, and I'll even concede the point that the plot feels a bit rushed, but I'm willing to let that all slide because like the show itself, I found a message in it that resembled something I've had to work through in my own life. While Brotherhood ends on a pretty happy note, all things considered, I personally found the ending to its predecessor more realistic, alternate universe and Nazi crackpots notwithstanding lol. At the end of episode 51, my main takeaway from the 2003 series as a whole was that you won't always get what you want, no matter how hard you try or how badly you want it. After the movie, that was amended to include the idea that there are times when you get the thing you desperately want, but it comes with a hefty price tag attached. The universe won't just give you something you desire without taking its proverbial pound of flesh. As I stated earlier, these are concepts that I've had to wrestle and eventually learn to come to terms with in my own life. Regarding the gags in Brotherhood, I don't mind injecting a bit of levity into a tense situation, but if it's done too often, or if it's too over the top, something even my favorite anime franchise, Dragon Ball, is guilty of at times, it just leaves me completely confused, which ultimately defeats the purpose of the attempted humor, in my humble opinion. I mean one moment I'm following along with a tense serious scene, then the next moment this bit of comedy is thrown in, and I'm just stumbling all over myself going "um...uh... ok? What the crap was that?" Then once the serious stuff resumes, it takes my brain a while to shift gears and get back to keeping up with the important aspects of whatever serious scene was playing out before the jarring interruption brought about by the comic relief, after it just had to shift gears when the more lighthearted material presented itself. Maybe others are better able to handle that sort of thing, but my brain sometimes struggles with jarring shifts in tone like that, especially when they happen rapidly, and so if gags are overused or are just too far out there, I find it a little bit irksome. It's not such a big deal now that I've watched stuff like Dragon Ball and FMAB multiple times, since I have an idea of what's coming and when to expect it, but when they were new to me, there were times where I'd be completely thrown for a loop, and it would take me a few minutes to recover lol.
Interesting video, and fairly outlined. I'm a massive fan of the entire Fullmetal Alchemist Franchise, warts and all, but I'm in the weird situation of loving FMA 2003 and the original manga more or less equally, while having somewhat less regard for Brotherhood than either of those. I like your points about execution mattering, as it gets to the heart of my issues with Brotherhood. I've seen people try to claim Brotherhood is worse than the 2003 series because of *what* it's themes, ideas, characterization, etc. are. Those are fair grounds for *subjectively* criticizing the show, but I don't think they're *objective* grounds for criticism. No, I think Brotherhood's real core problem is that it's fair less successful at taking full advantage of it's *medium* than either the 2003 series or the manga. There are certain storytelling conventions which are acceptable -and sometimes even necessary- in a comic that don't necessarily translate well to the medium of animation, and vice versa. Things like Arakawa's use of internal monologues, her visual humor tropes, etc., come across as less jarring on the page than they do when presented in Brotherhood. [At least to me they do.] Because a comic-gag panel is "separate", in a way, from the more serious panels, I find it easier for my brain to not be distracted by them. Don't know if I'm making sense? Anyway, my point is basically this: Brotherhood tries way too hard to replicate Hiromu Arakawa's storytelling *techniques* [as distinct from her plot, themes, characterization, etc.] without regard for whether those techniques work as well on the screen as they do on the page. Animation is not a comic strip, and while there *are* examples of where blurring the lines between the two can work [eg. Into the Spiderverse], those are the exception, not the rule. And not only does Brotherhood do this, it sometimes makes the visual humor even *more* over the top than it actually is on the page. It's deeply frustrating, all the more so because Brotherhood has moments where it shows it's capable of better. On top of this core problem, you have the fact that Brotherhood blithely skips over a lot of material from the first half of the manga. Lots of little scenes that give the story and the characters room to breathe are missing entirely. Individually, these scenes might not seem like much, but cumulatively, their absence is felt very keenly. In addition, Brotherhood fabricates it's pilot episode out of wholecloth, telegraphing the threat from the government in advance. In contrast, the manga is more gradual in it's build-up to the reveal of the conspiracy. Bradley's eyepatch doesn't come off until chapter 29 out of 108 [with Father appearing two chapters later], and you don't find out about Father and the generals being in cahoots until around chapter 50- just about halfway into the manga, but noticeably less than halfway into the show. Take into account that Brotherhood wastes two whole episodes [the pilot and the recap episode] on entirely invented material not from the manga, and I just don't see the excuse for the rushed pacing. Don't come talking to me about a lack of time when you waste forty-precious minutes on something we don't need. [And spoiling some of the big twists ahead of time in the process.] Now, don't get me wrong- I genuinely enjoy FMA: Brotherhood. I own the entire show [just like I do for the 2003 series], and I periodically rewatch it from time to time for the fun of it. I've seen plenty of trash in my time, enough to say with confidence that Brotherhood is very far from being one of the worst anime out out there. But it's less able to stand on its own merits than either the 2003 series or the manga. Much of it's strengths, it owes to the fact that it's source material is quite good. Arakawa's plot and characters, while not above criticism, are nonetheless compelling enough that they shine through even in the show. But still, I have my frustrations with Brotherhood. Not because it's not telling the same story as the 2003 series; they are separate stories with different characters and ideas, and even different target audiences, and it's kind of unfair to expect one to be the other or vice versa. No, my issues with Brotherhood are with it *as an adaptation of the manga*. Brotherhood's faults do a disservice to a fine comic series that I've a lot of affection for.
You had me thinking about how to fix some of Brotherhood issues: -Beginning: I didn't feel that the first part was rushed, but it's definitely better to make it semi-episodic (like 2003) so we get to know the characters. -Sheska: I would've shown her at Hughes's funeral and when the national transmutation circle was activated so she feels less like a tool. She did have more screentime in 2003, but she was just...there. -The jokes: They are fine. There are 2 or 3 that are really out of place. but the others are ok. -The homunculi: Maybe Lust loving someone, Envy wanting to bond with people secretly or just them interacting. By fleshing out them they are also adding more depth to father. -Father: How he purged his sins, how he treated them, what did he do in those 500 years. I know he is supposed to be flat but f*ck, at least show me the other side of the paper. The backstory of Father and the homunculi would actually make a great spin-off. Or prequel? You know what I mean. Not perfect, not the best of all time, but great show and amazing message, a 9 fits it well. I hope it wasn't too much text lol.
Still doesn't solve Yoki coming out of nowhere and having a random redemption at the end hitting pride with a car. It's so bizarre without the context.
I'm so glad that Brotherhood's flaws are starting to become more widely recognized. I remember back on my old channel I got about 40% thumbs down and 200 comments calling me a sociopath for saying Envy's death scene was stupid.
Thank you As 2003 FMA has been my favorite show since it came out. And like some people have Disney as part of their identity, it's always been 2003. FMA, for me,.. I've personally tried to sit through Brotherhood three times now, but I just can't get past the 1st half where it. Where it's very similar to 2003 before it forks off. because 2003 is just so much better. with the same plot points Brotherhood has no emotion in its very anime meaning lots of silly things popping off here and there. Whereas 2003 is Solomon sincere while still remaining warm and fuzzy and funny. I feel bad for people who only watched Brotherhood and have never given 2003 a chance. 2003 is the thinking man's show. and it's finale along with the movie I think are great. They always have been. They were very deep for their time. Not many anime make you think that hard and feel that hard like 2003 FMA.
I had finished FMA about a month before starting Brotherhood, couldn’t get past episode 4 before taking a break and coming back to it almost a year later
The rain scene in Mangahood (as in both Brotherhood *&* the Manga) i feel doesn't capture how important Hughes was to Mustang due to the lack of screen time both had at that point, especially Hughes. In 03, we've been with Hughes for a while & we've seen him both bond with the Elrics & joke around with Roy, as well as the occasion moments where he is trying to help him (like the flashback scene where Hughes tries to comfort a very depressed Roy after the Ishval War) & when he does die, it feels more painful due to how close of a bond we've made with him. Then the actual scene itself, i much prefer the 03 Version where Hawkeye immediately figures out what Roy meant by *"It's gonna rain soon",* as if she knows what kind of guy he is & how he handles these types of situations in an instant as opposed to Mangahood where she doesn't quite get it at first. Also, another point i wanna make for Brotherhood. The whole *"it's fully faithful to the Manga"* stuff... That's a bit of an oversimplification cause Brotherhood either changes some stuff around or in some cases, completely cuts stuff from the Manga. The worse offender of the latter is how they cut so many scenes from the Ishval War. Just wanted to point that out
Honestly, someone needs to just cut together. scene for scene. for the scenes that are shared by both and just let the viewer watch, just like you did at the end of this video. One is clearly better than the other......
I'm so glad that there are actually a lot of people who prefer FMA 2003 and don't like Brotherhood all that much. This video helped convey some of my opinions. I think 03 is way better and there were so many "serious" moments in Brotherhood that I found laughable
I’m one of the people that like 2003 better and it’s actually my second fav anime I still like brotherhood but it was way too rushed like everything was happening way too fast
@@TomoyaOkazaki2 It would be one thing if it was just rushed, but it often feels like Brotherhood has absolutely no sense of pacing, rushing through the absolute vital opening part of the Brother's journey to then drag out everything after the first meeting with father endlessly. You could have easily cut 10 episodes between like ep. 30 and 64 and used them to flesh out the characters more in the beginning. The Manga has way better pacing.
Thank you! This show has so many problems that everyone is in denial about. The soundtrack is so repetitive, every episode plays the exact same songs!!!
I loved that in Brotherhood, the Ishvalan philosopher stone was used on Mustang. You know, the hero of the Ishvalan genocide. I mean, it was great that they didn't even ask any Ishvalan citizens who helped save their people, even though they owed Amestris absolutely nothing. They didn't even ask Scar! A room of people who helped create the stone in the first place decided what to do with it. Wow, that bodes well for the future. Look, I am okay if Mustang got his eyes fixed. However, the way it was done was really bad to me, and segments that the manga and brotherhood are weak when it comes to meaningful racism/colonization commentary. Part of Mustangs character is about how he wants to truly atone for Ishval and help build it up again. But a part of that is respecting the Ishvalan people. He should have asked them if he could heal his eyes. Scar or an Ishvalan leader. Because at the end of the day, that's their people in the stone. It has been shown that sentience is possible in the stones. So, the Ishvalans should have a say on how the stone is used. It wasn't Marcos position to say shit. Even though I like him, he was one of the top scientist that made the stone!! And the frustrating thing is that it would be so easy to write in.
@@etheri0n959 Legit only like 2 seconds, while in the manga and 03, he was a huge part of what helped Ed and Al realize the meaning of "all is one and one is all." on the Island. In fact, the whole Yock Island thing was just butchered imo. I personally really love Brotherhood like a LOT, but things like that were so impactful in 03 and the manga, and by rushing things like that it just didn't carry nearly as much weight to it. Events like the Coal Mining thing too. I really like how 03 went into stuff shown in the manga. Brotherhood left out so many scenes from the manga (even parts of the conversation Martel had with Alphonse about her past) or even the funny stuff like Roy vs Ed or Jean getting rejected by Catherine. I feel like in someways the manga is more of a middle ground between 03 and Brotherhood in terms of many things, and when people say Brotherhood follows the manga to a T I really feel compelled to disagree. Personally I love both a lot, but I have to fully agree with you on Brotherhood's beginning being super rushed. And the flaw in the argument that Brotherhood relies on 03 is obvious since so many people just plain out skip 03 or don't even know of its existence. Really bugs the heck out of me.
I always loved the 2003 FMA growing up, it is hands down one of my all time favorite anime, and when I kept hearing about this "faithful" adaptation of the manga and how everyone was gushing about it I decided to check it out. I was left feeling...underwhelmed...and confused. Why was everyone praising it as better than the '03 version? Why did so many things feel rushed and not given any weight behind motivations or actions? Why were there no consequences? I voiced these opinions to my fellow anime friends and they stared at me like I had just murdered their families. They got so personally offended that I *didn't* like Brotherhood as much as them, and to this day I honestly can't understand why its fans are so ravenous about Brotherhood. I have many complaints of the show but basically it all boils down to nothing having any serious consequences. I haven't watched that show again since the first time I saw it, and that was probably 10 years ago, so I can't quite remember everything, but wasn't the main villain some kind of gaseous substance in a flask (that then turned into Father?? can't remember) who wanted to "swallow the sun"?? At that point the show completely lost me, especially when you actually see it happen. Despite the show being fiction where anything can happen, that sort of thing never made sense to me in the universe that it's set in. It was just...too much. 2003 FMA has its issues with Dante as the villain but she was way more believable in that world where someone would resort to mass murder over many centuries just to keep herself alive a little longer and forgo the consequences of her actions and death. This is believable because we've seen this happen in our own world. Perhaps not immortality, per se, but the murdering of millions of people just to keep your own power alive and well. But in Brotherhood the villain wants to...eat the sun...Make it make sense.
My biggest issue with Brotherhood is Edward's character development. Ed was very mature for his age, but he was still a kid. However, in Brotherhood he acted like an adult and a hero since the beginning. Sure, he was arrogant and a hot-head, but it's not enough to portray a teen. Also, his character development was very weak: during the series, he only learned to rely on other people. After he was defeated by Kimblee, he passed through the most important part of his development, but it was never showed, and the only thing we've got was that horrible fight between Ed and Pride. Another point: the ending. Father wasn't bad, but he was Hohenheim's villain. The fight between him and Edward felt cliché and artificial. Also, in the end Ed decided to give up alchemy, but how did he know he could did such thing? To make matters worse, his connection with alchemy was never explored, except in the very beginning. Ed never doubted about the importance of alchemy. And why he allowed Ling, Mustang and other characters to use the stone? It didn't make sense, and it felt only like a way to give a happy ending to everybody. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Brotherhood, but it's not perfect. The 2003 series isn't flawless too, but Edward's character development was handled better, IMO. Sorry for my English :(
Hey, no problem. Very comprehensive comment. And yeah, eds development as a character is really good in 2003. Although 2003 is far from perfect. Ed's character was one of the best aspects of the show for me.
@@etheri0n959 I agree. Sure, the 2003 anime had some plot holes and the cyborg guy, but I prefer it over Brotherhood because of how it handled the main characters and the brotherhood (the irony!) between them.
@@etheri0n959 i think both eds have different ages in the beggining too During the events of the alchemy exams, Shou Tucker and Barry Ed was 12 in 03 and the manga, but he was 15 years old in brotherhood Wich is a situation that creates some problems with brotherhood's version of Ed
@@JosephFlores-yn4yi yeah, the 2003 anime was supposed to be different since the beginning. Personally, I prefer the first half in the original anime, it's grittier, creepier and more emotional than its manga/Brotherhood counterpart.
Of course the show is less subtle about the thematics and explores them in lesser depth, because it aims to resonate more with the core of the anime audience. When shows like Dbz, Naruto and One Piece are the most sold/ popular anime, it is understandable why Broterhood tries to hold your hand so much, then the vast majority of anime consumer are children, teenager or young adults. Mature writing isn't appreciated as much, because the majority of the audience isn't mature ether. This why Brotherhood is for so many the better version, when objectivily the 03 version has better writing. Brotherhood is very much a typical battle shounen anime, following alot of the same troupes: - Over the top drawn out "epic " battles - Villian who wants to rule the world/ destroy the world - flat characters, little character developement. - Alot of fights. - Cliche, good guy's always win mentality. - little to no consequences, very forgiving when it comes to mistakes. - Black and white morality. - Fairy tale ending. And when you realize that Broterhood follows all these points faithfully, you realize why it is considerd one the greatest anime of all time. I agree the 2003 version is better, but Broterhood is just simply what the majority of the anime fan base prefers, and we see it daily there are many animes who are better written , but because they dont appeal to as broad of an age range as shounen anime they are less talked about and fma 2003 is one of them.
This is something I have had serious issues with Brotherhood. And as someone else in the comments pointed out, it also hedges far too much on the manga as a crutch, not taking advantage of the change in medium. And man, that point about Envy was also really important. Compare that to 2003 where his relationship with the Edwards was hinted on extremely early before finally coming to a head in the finale.
Yeah, Envy's character was a really interesting aspect of the 2003 series. In hindsight, I probably should have expanded on that in my '03 video. Thanks for checking out this video.
it's ironic that 03' is more focused on the brotherhood of the elrics than Brotherhood. It's also very ironic the way Edward dies on 03'. The series, as I just said, is heavily focused on brotherhood, so Ed being killed by his half brother, is very powerfull.
Another thing that is overlooked are the 'magic gimmicks' at the end that are left unexplained. Example 1) While we did get one scene of Hohenheim setting it up, his nation-wide anti-transmutation circle which would release all souls is not explained. We get what Father is doing bc we have seen it a lot of times already at that point, and we understand that this is just large-scale human transmutation. Also, Scar's circle is also set up properly, with the cast spending a lot of time deciphering the manuscripts of his brother, and setting it up during the time skip. But Hohenheim's? Nah, just works. How? Why is this possible in the first place? Not saying it is a HUGE stretch, but it is clearly not a well-established power or anything. Example 2) Why can you sacrifice your own gate? How did Edward figure it out? This has no set-up whatsoever, but is brushed aside by most FMAB fans. I remember watching the show for the second time when it hit me: "Wait. Why can he do that?" The problem is that THIS is THE resolution for Ed's arc, and the brothers' journey overall. So it is VERY important to set this up properly, otherwise it comes off as an asspull and robs the journey's end of emotional impact - assuming you are watching the show with your brain switched on. It was a cool moment for Ed to give up his alchemy to get Al's body back, no doubt about that, but surely there must have been a better way to set this up apart from just pulling it out of nowhere? And hey, perhaps I missed some details on all my previous viewings. But to me, for a show so revered for having a tight 'hard' magic system with great plot, it stumbles a lot in the final act, and leaves a lot of the magic 'unexplained' in the sense of not setting it up correctly. I am not asking for some deep metaphysical explanation, just consistency and proper set-up. Anybody else?
To play devils advocate 03 is a lot less consistent with how alchemy works with them transmuting golems that move around when their just supposed to me made of rock. Maybe the cognitive dissonance from the system being so good through out brotherhood makes it worse when they don't commit to the rules.
Jesus Christ. I agree with everything here 12,000%. ESPECIALLY the parts about Envy’s death scene. They spend absolutely no time setting up that jealousy angle and then have the audacity to reinsert several different lines from earlier in the show as if they want to show us how they set this up. Even though said chosen lines do not point toward jealousy for humans in any way, only a distaste and disdain for them. It’s like an even worse version of that scene from Interstellar where Anne Hathaway talks about how love is the only human force that can transcend time and space. Get the fuck out of here with that unearned, stupid, poorly thought out and condescendingly dumbed down bullshit. Another thing I’d like to add to what you’ve said is that there are entire characters that are only ever explored, or at least the majority of their exploration, is through monologues and explanations. Case in point, King Bradley. Think about it. How else do we learn about his worldviews, other than him blatantly spelling them out for another character? We have the beginning of episode 22, where he corners Ling and Lan Fan and they start having an argument about kings duty to his people. For no reason. We have episode 24 where he’s explaining to Pride his conflicting feelings towards his role in Father’s plan. We have episodes 25 and 26 where he is speaking to Mustang in his office about his backstory and about a soldiers worth when he puts on his uniform. Hell even on his DEATHBED in episode 61, he is still thoroughly spelling out for her why he doesn’t feel the need to leave any last words for his wife. You noticing a pattern? He is never delved into beyond what he SAYS about himself. There’s no hidden clues of details to pick up on from minuscule actions that may seem small at first but significant when you think back on them. King Bradley is only interesting on a conceptual level. His views themselves are worth artistic consideration, but the way they are presented is just so goddamn boring on a storytelling level. What makes this all the most infuriating is that there ARE characters, such as Olivier Armstrong, that are explored through the actions they take (giving Grumman a broken watch while the men are in the tunnel, and later simply smiling and going “I don’t know what you’re talking about) and nothing more is spelled out for the audience than needs to be. So they can do it right. But they just sometimes royally fuck it up.
Really well said. I completely agree. The lack of subtlety is a major flaw with Brotherhood, that many people tend to look over. Anyways, thanks for commenting.
I don't think lack of subtlety makes a story automatically bad but I have to say I'm quite annoyed by people who praise FMAB all day, every day and yet crap on the lack of subtlety in other shounens. It feels hypocritical.
I don't think lack of subtlety makes something automatically bad either. I like fairy tail even though thats the least subtle thing ever. But when handling deep topics like racism and the horrors of war, a little subtlety is necessary in my opinion. Thanks for the comment.
The best way to watch is to watch 03 first and then watch the Brotherhood. 03 is Sad but complete with a bittersweet ending. Brotherhood also has a very powerful happy ending and believe me both can make you cry. But it's a fact that Brotherhood lacks character development, introduction of important characters, Ed & Al's attachment with their mother that led them to perform human transmutation, and many more. The way Brotherhood jumpcuts to main points, I wouldn't have been able to watch Brotherhood if I had started with it directly. Brothers develop relation with Nina and Alaxander that makes the Nina's death so much meaningful and sad to them and to us. Mustang executing Winrey's parents was much more heart breaking than Scar killing them. Lust didn't get chance to develop and got early demise. Alchemy exam journey was much better in 03. Also the scene where Mustang tells Ed to catch the train really was very important for me. Even the music was far better in 03. Also one question always bugs my mind. How the hell were they able to turn the trains around from the stations? 😂😂😂
@@etheri0n959 when we combine both, no other show can ever beat them, ever, for me at least. But you still didn't give my answer. I asked it in the last line.
Thank you. Unpopular opinion but this is exactly the reason why I dislike Ed's last monologue from Brotherhood. I don't feel like is as climatic and important as in 2003.
In both 03 and the manga, rose appeared at the shop and Ed learned of Rose's past BEFORE he came to the church. I have no clue why Brotherhood changes that. Also in the manga, Rose happened to be slipped inside of Al's armor so she could hear Cornello's bad guy speech, yet again great stuff.
I agree with so many things in this video BUT there is one thing about Envys death I'd like to say: His reveal to be jealous of humans because of there emotional support for one another does not make sense st first, but when you actually go back into the series and find the subtle hints ( when he's trapped in the jar and May is helped by a bunch of strangers and he says " they sure are nice" or something like that, and when he is aggravated that the entire group is working together before his fight with mustang) it all makes perfect sense. Not to mention the lines that are playing in his head that he said earlier on in the series. It is one of those moments that you didn't see coming, but when you think about it, makes actual sense.
Oh, ok, now that you bring that up, I can admit that I did initially miss that. I may have to go back and check for more just in case, but I still feel that it was a lackluster reveal. I think they could have reinforced it a bit better than they did, but that subtle hint does give more context. Thanks for watching the video.
I watch fullmetal alchemist brotherhood but recently and I am still in the middle of watch 2003 and I swear 2003 is amazing why did nobody ever tell me
If you think about it, the existence of the chimera henchmen retroactively makes the Shou Tucker plot thread nonsensical. If they government already had the ability to create perfect chimeras, why did they waste their resources on Tucker? They could've just pretended they believed his experiments were immoral and dismissed him.
I'm gonna be honest I am a much bigger fan of Brotherhood, but there is a lot I enjoy about 2003. The opening sections are much stronger and it does allow us to form a deeper connection, and while I do personally love the humor in Brotherhood I completely understand. I think had 2003 had the full material it would have been amazing. Or as I always said if you took both of the best aspects of the show you would have a true masterpiece. Overall though a very good video with a lot of valid points.
I love fma 2003 and fma manga , but I don't like brotherhood , not that I hate it , but execution and jokes in inappropriate moments and almost all the time made me drop it at ep 25 (and I watched it after 2003 anime and before read the manga)
Brotherhood was a fun show to watch, with compelling characters. However I feel like it has not explored the themes enough, did not have quite the right tone for the story it was trying to convey. 2003 has an horrific aspect, and actually conveys how there are consequences to your actions and that there is no going back. The past is gone, just like you only die once. You have to live with that in that universe. With consequences. Also, 2003 made me almost cry or had my heart ache at almost every episode. Even in "fillers", there was always a brief moment, a glimpse of humanity coming at me. Brotherhood had a story to tell but I feel like it did not know how to tell it, and I think the manga has this problem too, to some extent. Edward 2003 keeps failing but has to live with that. Ed Mangahood does not use the stone, but let the other use it, and actually NEED the others to use it or kill some people/homonculus. He kind of let the other do it for him. Letting Ling use the stone to become a ruler... what are the ACTUAL consequences of that? It kind of legitimizes and normalizes the use of the stone, made of souls and victims of genocides. This is the message it sends to the entire world : If Ling Yao uses it, why couldn't we? 2003 makes a parallel between the stone and nuclear weapon for instance, that I find actually interesting. There is cost in the actions, once again. Also, equivalent exchange is a sort of a lie in the 2003 universe, but that does not mean you sould not try to make things better and act. It is bittersweet but also SO HOPEFUL. Anyway... I just feel like 2003 manages to convey a very arsh and large message/theme through micro (aka. the story of two cursed brother). Bro/manga goes on the macro scale (with the story of the brothers searching for their bodies just in parallel) but forgets that you can actually tell through individual and very personnal exp. a very very deep layered story with theological and moral stakes. I just feel like the premise is not exactly organically linked to the rest of the story, it just happened to meet half-way I guess. Like the beginning is about living through the consequences of your actions. It does not REALLY follow up after that. The origins of the homuculus in 2003 makes more sense here. In bro/manga Edward is reassured that the taboo act he did was not as bad as he thought it was. At that moment the mystery behind what happened and the stakes fell flat to me. The two shows are clearly not the same genre.
Really well put together and interesting points made here. That part about Ed letting others just use the philosopher stone for him was a different take that I haven't heard much. Thanks for that and thanks for watching.
@@etheri0n959 just realized i forgot to add a part where i actually comment on the video lol but great video and analysis!! thanks for keeping producing new fma content and commentary! There is so much to be discuss but the fandom and else seem a little bit sleepy for now... so as someone who watch both shows only recently, I love your approach and the time you invest into making those videos! wish you the best!
Okay not here to start fires but: to pin the failing of brotherhoods first quarter is unfair, the manga (and this might be unpopular opinion) does not have strong start. How does Ed know how to turn himself into philosopher's stone? Do you remember after he fought Kimblee in Briggs and the chimeras pulled the stick out of his stomach and Ed used his own life energy like a stone? And Kimblee is doing what he always does, pointing out flaws in character philosophy, I dont understand what is the problem? I feel sympathy for envy as he is the embodiment of fathers envy and like almost every homunculus understands it in the end which is in contrast to fathers refusal to see anything wrong with himself. Anyway, I enjoyed your video and agree that anime fandoms can be toxic, lets change the discord to more civilized discussion and remember that we can disagree politely :)
Hey man, really good points you made. Sorry I couldn't respond earlier, but I can see the merits in your arguments. Only thing I want to set straight is that I am criticizing Brotherhood for having a rough start, but I'm also pointing out that people defending that aspect of the show is kind of silly, especially if they're using the reasons I listed. Other than that, really good points, I just personally disagree with them. Thanks for the nice comment.
@Demo Gorgonzola Ok, there seems to be bad communication on my part, I don’t like the first third of this manga, 03 and brotherhood in general. Ed is too obnoxious protagonist and maybe that’s the point, to see how far he has grown but if not for the hype on brotherhood I would not have seen that growth. So I’m glad they skip over it. You are allowed to have your own opinion of 03’s and the manga’s start If you can turn yourself to soul energy as a singular unit without getting entangled to other souls which tends to be the case when creating stones for the most part, I don’t think its too much of a stretch you can figure out how to reverse it, granted it will take years of your lifespan. I don’t think Marcoh’s men had clear understanding what is it they are creating (concentrated soul energy) just how to do it (Draw circles and kill people) and certainly not how to transmute themselves. Kiblee is absolutely in character, he is psychoanalyst and ethic debater first and “a psychopathic war criminal” second. If this looks corny to you, fine but it is totally in line with his character. And I don’t address Ed’s speech because there is nothing to address, I agree. Envy’s death is set up for Fathers final scene at the gate, its a perfect contrast because Envy unlike his Father saw his sins and flaws. The fact that this realization comes from Ed’s stupid monologue speech does not change the fact he gets it.
@Demo Gorgonzola So the bad communication error I made on my first comment is the poor choice of words "unfair" and I wanted to clear that up. English is not my first language so I’m sorry. This was only meant to be my opinion. Marcoh is the only one required to know what is really happening when creating philosopher's stone and like I said, even if the assistants know what is happening, they still wouldn’t know how to transmute themselves. I would also assume that it would require a circle of different sort to do that and to turn back which would have to be made beforehand if you have not seen the Truth unlike Ed who can just clap his hands, even Marcoh cant do that. The "understanding" part is really badly defined in general. Is it understanding what symbols to put on circle, the one is all and all is one or just basic understanding of how physics and chemistry work? On classical or quantum level? Is it all? And this scene is mostly Ed’s scene, and the heroic and triumphant tone is for him not Kimblee he is just a side character. if it is corny for some OK I get it but it seems to work for most viewers, myself included. And ofc its fair to say you don’t like Envy as a character, I would very much like to hear what improvements you or any one else who is reading would make to Envy in brotherhood?
@Demo Gorgonzola Ok so I re-watched the Pride vs Ed scene and the scene, the music starts to play when Kimblee appears but you have to understand, this scene is ultimately about Ed and his triumphant if the criticism is about misplayed music I can kinda get it but like the songs beginning, Kimblee is the build up for the climax of this scene like the songs beginning is build up for the triumphant tone of the song The biggest disagreement seems to be about how alchemists cant break free from the stone. As we later see when Hohenheim activates the reverse circle for Fathers philosopher's stone after he absorbs what he calls God they do break free so Im not entirely sure if the ingredients see the Truth and if they do that they have any sanity left after (the souls that crawl in Envy’s body and the "creations" of Father which resemble former Xerxians seem to be Zombified)
@Demo Gorgonzola Oh plz, this is internet so our debate was very respectful and mature in comparison, and it was my pleasure. It is true that the souls in Hohenheim’s stone regained their sanity but only because he himself bonds with each of them (granted, impossible in real world) and that is why they tear trough Fathers leather container. If the souls inside philosopher's stone can break out this inconsistency (and I clap my hands and pray to Truth I’m using this word right this time) is unfair for only brotherhood, why cant they break out of Scar’s arm or later Al’s metal body? There must be someone in there who knows how human transmutation works, scar’s brother come to mind at first but scar hunted down so many alchemists that at least someone knows in 03’s timeline who is also made sacrifice (And I know in this timeline Ed is not doing it either, but Al is doing a similar thing and this might be assuming too much as I’m very much operating at the edge of my reasoning in saying this should also be possible at 03’s timeline)
More "Brotherhood" flaws: -The slapstick which was mostly conveyed through post-plot omakes in The Manga is exaggerated to Looney Tunes levels. -The returning VAs are initially much more wooden and the new VAs either make no effort or an overly noticeable effort to sound like their `03 counterparts in The Dub .To be fair, this somewhat improves over time. -The Tucker,Youswell and Cornello arcs are absolutely butchered, as is Roze Thomas`s entire character! -Father and his minions` competence levels are dipped a few centimeters compared to The Manga.Father`s also revealed way too early to have the impact he`s supposed to! - Pride in The Manga was more stoic and calculating, in "Brotherhood" he`s more sadistic and pretentious.
I do feel as though the voice acting for Ed especially is way different in both versions. He sounds like he got kind of rusty in Brotherhood to be honest.
@@etheri0n959 Ya which is understandable because Vic was reprising a role he was 10 years out of practice on as well as going through behind-the-scenes drama within the industry and legal issues at the time, and he did improve later.( But ya, he never got that emotional rawness in `03 back and he even said `03 will always have "a special place in his heart."(And I`m sure he was thinking to himself "And lungs,oh boy lungs" ).
I get what you mean. I do like both of them a lot but I really think you missed a lot of moments from 03 that lacked subtlety as well. There is literally a moment where Al looks at Martle and says she is just like Scar because she wants vengeance… but to make it hit you over the head even more he flat out says after saying that comparison to himself “vengeance is wrong.” And the fact that he has a little boy voice makes the scene sound even more ridiculous from a subtle standpoint. There are many other moments too in 03 that are just characters expositing plot points, character motivations, or moral dilemmas while we clearly see that ourselves while in the scene or from prior development. My point is both of them are lacking in subtlety while 03 does take time to set the scene a bit better it is not exempt from being called “in your face” with its messages and meanings. Brotherhood might do it more but they are both guilty of it through their own stories.
Yeah I think brotherhood has a lot of problems but this point just doesn't make sense because 1. As you said 03 (which I love) also has a lot of those moments and 2. Not being extremely subtle isn't inherently a bad thing, sometimes it's important to give enough context so that the audience doesn't interpret something the completely wrong way. There are definitely moments in the show where subtlety gets thrown out the window but some of the examples shown like mustang crying are just straight up not it
As a person who adores Brotherhood and that likes it wayyyy more than 2003, great video. FMA fans in general tend to get really toxic about which series is best but you made great points and remained respectful to Brotherhood fans. I don't even disagree with you, I think Brotherhood has a serious overexplaining problem and the part at the end with Selim was an ass-pull.
Overall I prefer '03 due to it's more consistent tone though overall I'd say they're pretty on par when it comes to it's overall storytelling and characterization represented a well as what's inferred especially since with both iterations there's this unique sense of depth you rarely see, in general. The humunculi overall have just as much presence but with brotherhood giving them this monstrous forms which represent the humunculi in their purest forms it's unique and does something creative with the idea of them being sins. Father coming from the gate and Dante being able to open it of her own free will I'd say gives both of them a distinct presence and makes them both imposing in their own regard.
Between the 2 Brotherhood is my favorite but I know it's not perfect and the first 13 eps. could've been better. Also calling Brotherhood a 100% adaptation is a flat out lie, yet some FMA fans have the gaul to say "We've seen it no need to read it"(Yes this is a real thing). Plus having read the whole manga myself there's actual content from the manga that got cut out of the anime. Here's a couple examples-Hohenhiem has a pretty badass scene saving a caravan from some muggers which also foreshadows his hidden immortality. While Mustang and Al's crew are dealing with Lust Ling and Lan Fan have a short battle with Envy and Gluttony which at the end of said fight is the moment that canonically introduces Pride The Ishval. Hell the first 14 episodes adapts and I kid you not almost 8 volumes of content which btw is about 30 chapters and that's pretty bad. P.S Yeah I have no idea why the anime had that Cornello Hulk moment it was incredibly stupid.
Question for anyone, what part in the Nina Tucker scene were you hoping was more subtle if you were at all, just slightly confused. To me the scene was to drive the point of humanity's atrocities across, and to show that even the main protagonists of were capable of the same things Shou Tucker was. The part where Shou says to Edward "You and i are the same" really felt like the driving factor in this scene to me, and the sadness of Nina just highlighted the sadness of this realization for me.
The problem I have this the Tucker reveal scene in Brotherhood isn't necessarily a lack of subtlety, it's how ungodly insistent it is on the emotions it wants to get out of you. Great scenes to me don't have to tell you to feel a certain way, they just present something in a manner which makes you feel the way they want.
03 is more of a character piece and a better told story than brotherhood, which is typical shounen fare. 03 spends it's time more on the relationships of the characters. We meet Hughes and see the birth of his daughter and we see her as she grows up.we spend time at Izumi's and we get her past and we focus on her loss and shame we dwell on alphonse's feeling of inadequacy and we see the little moments with Winry. With brotherhood, those things don't come till late, where at best they're comparable but most of the time it slows and weighs down the story it was racing to tell.
How would you rank the 8 Homunculus death scenes (I know Pride technically doesn't die but whatever) in FMAB? From worst to best. Lust - burned by Mustang Gluttony - eaten by Pride Envy - suicide Sloth - death by testosterone Wrath - disarmed by Scar + old age Pride - wibbly-wobbly Philosopher's Stone shenanigans Greed - self-sacrifice Father - consumed by the Truth
Sorry for the late response. But my ranking would be 1. Greed. I legitimately liked his character and dynamic with Ling and although the whole friendship thing was cliche l, I did feel like it fit. 2. Wrath. The furor was one of the things that I actually liked more in brotherhood than in 03, because there was a bit more depth to him, like when he talks about his family and past, and his last fight was pretty cool in my opinion. 3. Lust. Lust's death was dissapointing to me at first, cause how she was in 03, but the animation was really good, and over time, I thought that moment was a pretty cool one for Roy. 4. Sloth. Thus one might be weird, but his fight with Armstrong was fun and entertaining, with cool moments like Armstrong getting punched in the arm to fix his dislocated shoulder. 5. Gluttony. There wasn't much to this one, but I liked the irony of the death, where Gluttony died because he was eaten. 6. I'd say pride for this one. I made fun of it in my video, but there was something to this fight, a lot more to it than the deaths above this one in my rankings. I think it was a good character moment for Ed and Pride's redemption at the end was pretty sweet. Personally though, I was just caught up with the moments I mentioned to rank it higher. 7. Father. His death felt kind of anticlimactic to me. It felt as though they were building him up to have some master plan, but he went down relatively easily in my opinion and at the end, I didn't really think much of it. 8. Envy. For the same reasons I mentioned in my brotherhood video, envy is the worst death in my opinion. While there is stuff to him in this final moment, it just feels unearned and abrupt. Sorry if my list gave you an aneurysm. Hopefully I made some good points here. Interesting question, thanks for asking.
OMG. Yes to everything! The violin music is a cheesy Godfather rip-off, while the music that's supposed to inspire dread is better suited for clowns! That score is horrifying, and I couldn't believe when the show tried to make Envy sympathetic! WHY!?! There were a couple of plot holes, too, although the only one I can think of at the moment is that both Greed and Wrath were part human, but it was possible to mortally injure Wrath, but not Greed.
Well the reason Bradley could be mortally injured is because he was only one soul(since he conquered all the souls inside of the stone until his was the only one left) while Greed still had numerous souls inside of him, so Ling could heal when Greed was in control of his body.
@@karinakamichi4557 Huh. I can't speak for the sub version or the manga, but in the English dub, he didn't say anything like that. He only said he wasn't sure what soul was 'in charge' now that he'd become a homunculus (and that's a paraphrase, not an exact quote), but I didn't come away with the impression he had fewer souls than any other homunculus and why would he be different from Ling when he and Bradley underwent the same procedure?
@@literatiglee In the sub Bradley outright said that "There was only one soul left and the feeling of wrath.". Dont know about the dub but it has a history of distorting and omitting stuff like it did in 03. I like Dub but I suggest looking back over some things in Sub for certainty.
@@literatiglee So I looked back over it in Dub and he basically said "Countless souls battled for dominance and only the most wrathful one survived" before going on to explain that he didnt know if it was his birth soul anymore or the stone's soul.
To be honest. I liked them both. Is possible that both events happened, but in a different universe of the same multiverse. If you watched Conqueror of Shambala you would understand what I mean.
Lmao I just remembered what the "we're only humaaann" thing reminded me of. I couldn't put my finger on it until just a few minutes ago. Click on the video linked below and go to about 13:24 ua-cam.com/video/zR8sRjBJgQ8/v-deo.html
I think both combined would be better. If only it was put into one story. People think that just because 2003 moved onto its new story makes it not as good, but I think both are great in their own right.
FMAB is crap here is why 1)they establish the idea of equivalent exchange then ignore it in every episode. when mustang makes fire or ed makes rock walls or the one guy makes a bunch of guns what are they giving up? This makes the combat boring as every fight can be settled in eds favor because magic. Establishing rules and then ignoring them is just bad storytelling they would have been better off never mentioning equivalent exchange then least then it would be consistent. 2) ed is the worst alchemist in the show. They say he is special because he does alchemy without a circle because he saw the truth when doing human transmutation. Problem: Literally the only alchemist in the show who ever uses a circle is Edward,(mustang created fire with a finger snap is cool but it completely breaks the shows lore) meaning he is so useless he needed help to do something so basic everyone in the show can do it. I can go on but the idea that FMA is anything but mediocre is laughable
.....you do realize that ed uses the ground in order to make the walls right, you can clearly see the ground indents below where he made the wall, mustang uses the oxygen around him to fuel his flame, and as literally anybody who took chemistry would know, fire doesn't burn unless there is oxygen to burn as thats what it uses as fuel, kind of like propane though propane is easier to explode, it does actually follow equivalent exchange. Just to further my point, Cornello was using an incomplete philosopher stone to make the gun, an object which as you would later come to know is powered by a lot of energy, and as anyone who eventook a physics class should know, E=Mc2, this equation by Einstein allows you to convert latent energy into mass provided you have a lot of energy, and vice versa. That equation gave us the atomic bomb btw which is literally splitting an atom to release this energy and if you can gather enough energy and concentrate it you can create atoms and mass as proven by the LHC in Switzerland, converting pure energy into something tangible is possible. Regarding your Ed is the worst alchemist statement that's not true either, Mustang actually uses a circle which is drawn on to his glove(which is made of a material to act as a flint and steel for a spark), basque grand uses two metal rings on his handsfor circles and Armstrong uses a circle carved unto his knuckle dusters, they all have circle which if destroyed would mean they are useless and have to actually draw their circles, we actually see this in ep 19 of brotherhood when Roy looses his gloves he actually has the carve the circle into the backside of his hand and use Havoks lighter as a flint and steel. If anything you are the medicore and laughable one, spewing out garbage points that are all so clearly disproven in the show.
I wanna say that the beginning of Brotherhood is an absolute slog but I also feel the last third of the show was very poorly handled. The pacing of Brotherhood is all over the place and the ending overall felt thrown together and not well thought out. The giant boss battle at the end was so boring and the alchemy made no sense.
I've started rewatching both series and I've told people if they want a manga accurate good adaptation mixing both anime they should watch the first 24 eps of 03 and then move on to ep 10 - 64 of brotherhood to get the full experience without the drop in quality. But this isn't my only gripe with brotherhood it's too comedic and takes me out of the experience. Way too much comedy that a lot of it falls flat and gets really fucking annoying..
Personally I watch BOTH versions. Watch the first 18 episodes (halfway through the battle with Slicer in the 5th laboratory) and then switch to the appropriate place in Brotherhood. I call it the Alchemists order. (Like the Machete order for watching the Star Wars movies) granted, that’s just me...
The problem is, that FMAB has no obvious or big flaws, that one can criticise without being being unfair, because most "issues" of this show are just very minor things, like this video also shows. BUT, that doesn't mean that the story is "the best of all time" or anything even close to that. The story just isn't anything special. (You are free to disagree with me on this.) FMAB is extremely overrated, not because it's actually bad, but because people keep praising it to high heaven, despite it not actually being that special.
fma 2003: brotherhood sucks! You skipped too many manga chapters! Fma brotherhood: the manga author added new characters, and added a new type of alchemy. And where’s your canon storyline?
I'll tell you what's happening. When we as people grow up and have watched a lot of anime we start to pick apart new ones we watch. We don't just let go of our worries and just let the show grab us. We over analyze with our stinky adult brains. This show is better when you're 15/16 years old and if you haven't seen much of any anime.
@@etheri0n959 Oh damn... well then i guess it's just not your type. Because i love them both. I think that neither one is perfect. But only when you watch them both can you see the full picture and then it feels like one perfect show.
I find it interesting how people get mad at the beginning of brotherhood miss the point. It is suppose to rush through it so people have a reason to watch fma 03, if brotherhood decided to retell the same story they would do it better so if brotherhood has a better beginning than 03 and is more faithful fun and better noone would care about Dante or lust 03. Alternatively, we have to look at runtime it takes 03 half of its entire episodes to reach the lab while in brotherhood it is within the first 10 episodes so it can cover new ground and tell the rest of the story instead of rehashing the past.
I find it interesting that this argument is completely false and has been debunked countless times before and yet people still think it's true. But let's just say, for the sake of argument, that it is true. Why does purposefully half assing or rushing a critical part of the story excuse it from criticism. The answer? It doesn't. Unless you can provide an actual reason as to why that would be acceptable other than the good old 2003 exists and therefore makes it okay for a studio to not try their best. An adaptation that can't properly adapt the material being handled fails as an adaptation. If the creators of brotherhood really wanted people to watch 03 before brotherhood than why would they even waste resources and money adapting the early material? They could instead just start from the new material instead of redoing the material already provided in the version your supposed to watch first in 10 sloppy episodes. They obviously didn't do that because then a shit ton of people would get confused because 03 introduced it's own concepts as well as a much darker and different tone and atmosphere. But they could have made the rest of the material coincide with 03 better to make the canon ending fit with all of the new stuff. They didn't do that though because brotherhood was meant to be its own thing, not the sequel to 03.
@@etheri0n959 the evidence is within the show if brotherhood was bad throught then yeah it shows flaws and bad decisions, but after the lab brotherhood is an excellent show and a perfect adaptation. The director didn't magically get good overnight then decided let's make a good show it was obviously purposeful that the beginning lacked since episodes 10-50 are too good to show accident or ineptitude. To reiterate if brotherhood took the time and effort for the first arc as they did for 10-50 then why watch 03? If brotherhood had a better beginning than 03 then why care about 03? To compare it to western media the origional lion king is far superior to the live action one it doesn't matter that the live action one is different it better who cares it is a lesser movie, it would be the same situation in reverse don't watch 03 its different but brotherhood(with a great start) is better in every way.
My argument wasn't that brotherhood makes 03 obsolete. It's that brotherhood was never intended to be watched in the way that you describe. These are two completely different shows in terms of tone, direction in story, and in some cases entirely different characters. And no, brotherhood is not a perfect adaptation. It does a lot of the manga dirty. It takes some really amazing artwork in the manga and makes it look as bland as possible. The direction is very bare bones, as it presents a lot of the concepts in fma in the most one dimensional and uninteresting way possible. On top of all this, brotherhood is just boring. The action is not paced very well, and nothing else about the show is impressive either. None of the concepts that they bring up are especially thought provoking or super complex. Yes, there's war and racism, but all they have to say about these things is that they're bad. In the case of the ishvallan war especially, brotherhood cut out a shit ton of material from that arc. They condensed an entire arc into one episode. And the difference in quality of these two versions is night and day. The manga's version of the story actually does a good job of making it feel like a crappy, nightmarish, awful slaughter. Everything in that arc is just so unsettling and it makes YOU feel like shit after reading, cause you felt it yourself. It was long and arduous and I felt like resting after reading. In brotherhood, they replace all of those evocative scenes full of incredible imagery with a couple of dead bodies and a kid crying in the middle of a freaking battlefield. How lazy is that? Everything in brotherhood just feels like a cheaper version of the events that took place in the manga. Even the art style feels so cheap and uninspired.
I think the next time I turn in a paper at college I’m going to intentionally give zero fucks about the first 20% and when my teacher asks me I’ll just tell them it’s supposed to be that way and demand an A+ for being meta.
Fact: FMA 2003 used to be one of the highest rated anime on Mal before Brotherhood fanboys downvoted it
Proof
Omg the inappropriate humor in between serious moments makes brotherhood hard to rewatch.
'03 is always going to be my first choice when I want to take in some FMA. It tells its story so beautifully. I literally decided I wanted to rewatch Brotherhood last week, and my natural thought was that I had to watch '03 first to really enjoy Brotherhood.
One thing about '03 that will forever stick with me is in that very scene showed here. The use of "Brothers" towards the end of the funeral scene is so well placed. It's always been used as a reminder of how deep Ed and Al's bond goes, but here it's used as Mustang mourns Hughes. It's the the first and last indication you get of just how much Maes means to Roy. Roy allows himself to break for just a moment and the song just makes it hurt even more. Then it transitions to Ed, Al and Winry, "Brothers" still playing, and they talk about Hughes and how much he cares about them. Then Ed sees him waving and he's gone. As if Ed finally realizes how much Hughes means to him but it's too late. And he doesn't even realize it.
One more thing I’d like to add: Brotherhood has no stakes. When watching the series, I grew to not feel any worry for the characters no matter what situation they happen to be in since I could tell everyone was going to make it out alive and practically unscathed. This HEAVILY downgraded my viewing experience, especially during the final battle. “Oh, literally everyone just died. Golly gee, I wonder if they’ll all be okay.” Brotherhood attempts to artificially heighten its stakes with these world-shattering events, but it just makes it look even more pathetic in my eyes.
I watched ‘03 second, but the first thing I noticed about it (aside from the development of Ed and Al’s relationship as well as a few other things) was the fact that it wasn’t afraid to get its hands dirty. Even if I didn’t fear for the characters’ LIVES, I feared for their sanity, whether or not they would achieve their goals, the moral dilemma of if their goals are even worth achieving, and so much more. One of the most notable scenes in this regard is when Edward is trudging through the countryside, trying to find Al after he was dropped off with a bunch of cargo… and gets mugged, now deprived of both of his artificial limbs. I don’t cry often when watching anything anymore, but this scene did it for me because how well it showcases Ed’s complete and utter helpless in this situation.
> “Oh, literally everyone just died. Golly gee, I wonder if they’ll all be okay.”
If you think about it, Father lost the moment Hohenheim finished his "moon shadow" transmutation circle.
2003 Roy: Lives forever with only a single eye ironically akin to Bradley.
FMAB Roy: Let’s just use this neato stone to fix my eyes and Havoc.
You hit it on the nail! One thing that annoyed me about Brotherhood was the lack of subtlety that the 2003 was able to pull off so great
Thanks for the comment. Glad someone could see my side of things.
@@etheri0n959 How childish. Both camps in the FMA debatte are so unable to view each story for what it is, as if it were impossible to enjoy this version without trashing that version. Alan Moore said, “If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience,
they would be the artists.”
When you judge a piece of art, the criteria you’re supposed to use is how closely the artist
achieved their goals. If you don’t like musicals, that’s fine. That doesn’t mean that all musicals are bad. They could be a very well done example of something that you don’t enjoy. There’s a fine line there many people struggle to understand, which is the difference between talking about the piece of art, and talking about yourself and your own tastes and emotions.
While I think that there is more to Brotherhood and the Manga then people might think (check out youtubers "Kato", "Under The Scope", "Aleczandxr"
and "Wisecrack") I also believe that all three FMA version are pretty damn good. Sadly, "Fullmetal Alchemist Retrospective | A Series Made Fullmetal" seems to be the only youtube essay that can praise all versions without, being critical without whining. Perhaps you'd like it to.
@@bby7630 It has a lot of the same jokes. But they are more of a problem in 03 since they undercut the darker tone that 2003 is going for. I like a lot that 2003 did. But I also find it sad they took out Armstrong's entire arc without replacing it with something else. They also made the already unlikeable Izumi Curtis even more of a bitch and wrote Hughes and Hawkeye out of the ishval war. I wish they had waited for the entire manga to end bevor doing their version. Or that they would have taken more time. It's pretty obvious that 2003 was somewhat written on the fly. Seems rather obvious that Dante, for example, wasn't meant to be the villain from the start. I think 2003 could have been even better if they had taken more time.
@@samlerf Allthough I agree with most things you said, I tottaly disagree with the ''the criteria you are supposed to use is how closely the artist achieved their goals''.
If the artists intent was to make extremely stunning visuals and they achieved it, it shouldnt be an excuse why everything else is bad.
@@gangpug2567 Opinions are opinions. Nobody can fault you for liking or diskling anything - at least in principle. It's simply important to note that one's own taste is not objective quality.
But to stay in your example. If all the artist cared about is stunning visuals and it did exactly that then its somewhat problematic to shame it for not also achieving this or that.
Remember how the LOTR films (unlike the novels) portrayed the relationship between Sam and Frodo as weirdly homoerotic? Well, that's not what was intended, even if the films themselves, as far as I know. So If I, hoping for more gay representation, accuse the story for not providing me that then I'm simply mistaken - since the story was never about gay representation.
I love both anime. but I think I prefer 03 due to it giving more time to alot of its plot points, having a more consistent tone, and also how it handled alot of the characters
Yeah, the way '03 handled it's characters especially was amazing. Brotherhood still has its positives too though. thanks for the comment.
@@etheri0n959 Brotherhood was good, but imo The 2003 Version is much better, it was deeper and darker and the cast was less archetypal
better music and characters
This is a good video. Brotherhood often lacks the subtlety and clever writing that 03 has.
On that Ed and Pride scene-- yes I do think it's kind of ridiculous. However, Ed turning himself into a philosopher's stone is foreshadowed-- when ed is impaled at Briggs, he closes up the wound by envisioning himself as a philosopher's stone, using his own life energy, as it's the only option available to him at the time (though he eventually finds a philosopher's stone). So there is a precedent for using his own life force to turn himself into a philosopher's stone. A scene I find more ridiculous is when Ling pulls on Greed while Father tries to use him as a new philosopher's stone-- it's supposed to be a dramatic character moment but it just feels like a weird over-the-top tug of war.
Brotherhood is more melodramatic than 03 and feels more like a shonen anime, while 03 feels more like a serious and dramatic story, with a sci-fi aesthetic.
True, I've actually recently re watched the briggs scene and I noticed that there was build up towards it, though it is still ridiculous. For the Greed scene, I found it to be pretty dumb, but at the same time, I did like the dynamic between Greed and Ling, so I let it slide. Thanks for the comment.
That scene with turning yourself into a philosopher stone is also followed up on at the end when Al says that he and Ed are working on a new alchemic concept where you “take in 10, give a part p yourself, and give back 11”. This idea of selflessness plays a big role into the theme of humanity’s willingness to prevail over evil, and its part of why Father underestimated humans and lost. I would argue that this concept was present in the story as early as the brothers’ human transmutation. Ed sacrifices his arm to bring Al back. A soul being bonded to armor was something that people thought was only possible with a philosopher stone, but Ed put the burden on himself to bypass the stone. I really like the concept behind the pride scene and I think it’s a brilliant implementation of that theme into the story. But yeah it was hella cheesy lol. FMAB’s story writing is top tier, but the execution is tiring to sit through sometimes. That’s why FMAB isn’t my favorite anime, and that’s why I don’t give it a 10/10. Even though I am still a pretty big fan of the show regardless.
Something that makes me laugh is how Brothers from 2003 feels more like a lullaby then Trisha's Lullaby. Trisha's sounds like something that will endues night terrors.
Lol, true. Trisha's character in 03 was honestly pretty scary.
@@etheri0n959 I think because the manga was still in production, Bones had to slow down and take their time (aka, pad) characters. Which gave us more dimensions and grounded characters. I will say Brotherhood is a good anime, but 03 is a better story.
this is an amazing video. as a decade long 03 fan, i can say for certain that the near-universal praise of brotherhood is so exhausting. 03 is constantly picked apart for the smallest things, yet people act like brotherhood is a flawless masterpiece. this video was cathartic to say the least. i agreed with everything you brought up and i'm so glad you said some of these criticisms that i dared not mention for fear of getting blasted with hate. but these things need to be said! brotherhood simply is not as good as people say it is. thanks for making this!
Glad I could give that experience to you man. Thanks for watching the video. Glad to hear your joy.
...I'm going to agree with you- I like both animes, but when it comes to soundtrack, FMA '03 is clearly better. I think the soundtrack of FMA: Brotherhood is not so memorable.
The 2003 series has always resonated with me on a deeper and more personal level than Brotherhood. The older I've gotten, the more this is the case. As far as Conqueror of Shamballa goes, I know it has its detractors, even among fans of the original FMA, but I personally found it to be a good enough way to conclude the story of the original. I know it gets weird, and I'll even concede the point that the plot feels a bit rushed, but I'm willing to let that all slide because like the show itself, I found a message in it that resembled something I've had to work through in my own life.
While Brotherhood ends on a pretty happy note, all things considered, I personally found the ending to its predecessor more realistic, alternate universe and Nazi crackpots notwithstanding lol. At the end of episode 51, my main takeaway from the 2003 series as a whole was that you won't always get what you want, no matter how hard you try or how badly you want it. After the movie, that was amended to include the idea that there are times when you get the thing you desperately want, but it comes with a hefty price tag attached. The universe won't just give you something you desire without taking its proverbial pound of flesh. As I stated earlier, these are concepts that I've had to wrestle and eventually learn to come to terms with in my own life.
Regarding the gags in Brotherhood, I don't mind injecting a bit of levity into a tense situation, but if it's done too often, or if it's too over the top, something even my favorite anime franchise, Dragon Ball, is guilty of at times, it just leaves me completely confused, which ultimately defeats the purpose of the attempted humor, in my humble opinion. I mean one moment I'm following along with a tense serious scene, then the next moment this bit of comedy is thrown in, and I'm just stumbling all over myself going "um...uh... ok? What the crap was that?" Then once the serious stuff resumes, it takes my brain a while to shift gears and get back to keeping up with the important aspects of whatever serious scene was playing out before the jarring interruption brought about by the comic relief, after it just had to shift gears when the more lighthearted material presented itself. Maybe others are better able to handle that sort of thing, but my brain sometimes struggles with jarring shifts in tone like that, especially when they happen rapidly, and so if gags are overused or are just too far out there, I find it a little bit irksome. It's not such a big deal now that I've watched stuff like Dragon Ball and FMAB multiple times, since I have an idea of what's coming and when to expect it, but when they were new to me, there were times where I'd be completely thrown for a loop, and it would take me a few minutes to recover lol.
Interesting video, and fairly outlined.
I'm a massive fan of the entire Fullmetal Alchemist Franchise, warts and all, but I'm in the weird situation of loving FMA 2003 and the original manga more or less equally, while having somewhat less regard for Brotherhood than either of those. I like your points about execution mattering, as it gets to the heart of my issues with Brotherhood.
I've seen people try to claim Brotherhood is worse than the 2003 series because of *what* it's themes, ideas, characterization, etc. are. Those are fair grounds for *subjectively* criticizing the show, but I don't think they're *objective* grounds for criticism. No, I think Brotherhood's real core problem is that it's fair less successful at taking full advantage of it's *medium* than either the 2003 series or the manga.
There are certain storytelling conventions which are acceptable -and sometimes even necessary- in a comic that don't necessarily translate well to the medium of animation, and vice versa. Things like Arakawa's use of internal monologues, her visual humor tropes, etc., come across as less jarring on the page than they do when presented in Brotherhood. [At least to me they do.] Because a comic-gag panel is "separate", in a way, from the more serious panels, I find it easier for my brain to not be distracted by them. Don't know if I'm making sense? Anyway, my point is basically this: Brotherhood tries way too hard to replicate Hiromu Arakawa's storytelling *techniques* [as distinct from her plot, themes, characterization, etc.] without regard for whether those techniques work as well on the screen as they do on the page. Animation is not a comic strip, and while there *are* examples of where blurring the lines between the two can work [eg. Into the Spiderverse], those are the exception, not the rule. And not only does Brotherhood do this, it sometimes makes the visual humor even *more* over the top than it actually is on the page. It's deeply frustrating, all the more so because Brotherhood has moments where it shows it's capable of better.
On top of this core problem, you have the fact that Brotherhood blithely skips over a lot of material from the first half of the manga. Lots of little scenes that give the story and the characters room to breathe are missing entirely. Individually, these scenes might not seem like much, but cumulatively, their absence is felt very keenly. In addition, Brotherhood fabricates it's pilot episode out of wholecloth, telegraphing the threat from the government in advance. In contrast, the manga is more gradual in it's build-up to the reveal of the conspiracy. Bradley's eyepatch doesn't come off until chapter 29 out of 108 [with Father appearing two chapters later], and you don't find out about Father and the generals being in cahoots until around chapter 50- just about halfway into the manga, but noticeably less than halfway into the show. Take into account that Brotherhood wastes two whole episodes [the pilot and the recap episode] on entirely invented material not from the manga, and I just don't see the excuse for the rushed pacing. Don't come talking to me about a lack of time when you waste forty-precious minutes on something we don't need. [And spoiling some of the big twists ahead of time in the process.]
Now, don't get me wrong- I genuinely enjoy FMA: Brotherhood. I own the entire show [just like I do for the 2003 series], and I periodically rewatch it from time to time for the fun of it. I've seen plenty of trash in my time, enough to say with confidence that Brotherhood is very far from being one of the worst anime out out there. But it's less able to stand on its own merits than either the 2003 series or the manga. Much of it's strengths, it owes to the fact that it's source material is quite good. Arakawa's plot and characters, while not above criticism, are nonetheless compelling enough that they shine through even in the show. But still, I have my frustrations with Brotherhood. Not because it's not telling the same story as the 2003 series; they are separate stories with different characters and ideas, and even different target audiences, and it's kind of unfair to expect one to be the other or vice versa. No, my issues with Brotherhood are with it *as an adaptation of the manga*. Brotherhood's faults do a disservice to a fine comic series that I've a lot of affection for.
Damn, really well said. I couldn't agree more. Thanks so much for the comment.
I hate how they made ed less against the military in Brotherhood it comes off as he doesn't give a shit about the things the military has done
Yeah, he feels a lot more tame in brotherhood and it makes him seem like he has less personality in this version.
I enjoyed the subtlety of 2003's music, those somber piano tunes compared to Brotherhood's overbearing violin that blasts in every other scene
Same here. While, I found the ost for brotherhood to be all right. I think 03's was just downright gorgeous.
@@etheri0n959 Ed swearing to Alphonse at the gate that he'll get his body back while Let It All Out plays was a beautiful moment
@@radhummingbird97 Yeah, that was actually one of the moments that got me, while watching.
You had me thinking about how to fix some of Brotherhood issues:
-Beginning: I didn't feel that the first part was rushed, but it's definitely better to make it semi-episodic (like 2003) so we get to know the characters.
-Sheska: I would've shown her at Hughes's funeral and when the national transmutation circle was activated so she feels less like a tool. She did have more screentime in 2003, but she was just...there.
-The jokes: They are fine. There are 2 or 3 that are really out of place. but the others are ok.
-The homunculi: Maybe Lust loving someone, Envy wanting to bond with people secretly or just them interacting. By fleshing out them they are also adding more depth to father.
-Father: How he purged his sins, how he treated them, what did he do in those 500 years. I know he is supposed to be flat but f*ck, at least show me the other side of the paper.
The backstory of Father and the homunculi would actually make a great spin-off. Or prequel? You know what I mean.
Not perfect, not the best of all time, but great show and amazing message, a 9 fits it well. I hope it wasn't too much text lol.
Thanks for watching. It's good to have your own opinion on the show and I hope that my video didn't feel like I was invalidating that.
I love the use of Sheska and Rose in 2003, felt like actual characters.
Still doesn't solve Yoki coming out of nowhere and having a random redemption at the end hitting pride with a car. It's so bizarre without the context.
THANK YOU for mentioning how FMAB's silly jokes ruin some moments. That's my biggest issue with BH and the fans who hate on 03 just don't get it.
I'm so glad that Brotherhood's flaws are starting to become more widely recognized. I remember back on my old channel I got about 40% thumbs down and 200 comments calling me a sociopath for saying Envy's death scene was stupid.
Damn, sucks. Hopefully people are allowed to continue being critical of brotherhood going forward.
now i want to see that video lol
Thank you As 2003 FMA has been my favorite show since it came out. And like some people have Disney as part of their identity, it's always been 2003. FMA, for me,.. I've personally tried to sit through Brotherhood three times now, but I just can't get past the 1st half where it. Where it's very similar to 2003 before it forks off. because 2003 is just so much better. with the same plot points Brotherhood has no emotion in its very anime meaning lots of silly things popping off here and there. Whereas 2003 is Solomon sincere while still remaining warm and fuzzy and funny. I feel bad for people who only watched Brotherhood and have never given 2003 a chance. 2003 is the thinking man's show. and it's finale along with the movie I think are great. They always have been. They were very deep for their time. Not many anime make you think that hard and feel that hard like 2003 FMA.
I had finished FMA about a month before starting Brotherhood, couldn’t get past episode 4 before taking a break and coming back to it almost a year later
The rain scene in Mangahood (as in both Brotherhood *&* the Manga) i feel doesn't capture how important Hughes was to Mustang due to the lack of screen time both had at that point, especially Hughes.
In 03, we've been with Hughes for a while & we've seen him both bond with the Elrics & joke around with Roy, as well as the occasion moments where he is trying to help him (like the flashback scene where Hughes tries to comfort a very depressed Roy after the Ishval War) & when he does die, it feels more painful due to how close of a bond we've made with him. Then the actual scene itself, i much prefer the 03 Version where Hawkeye immediately figures out what Roy meant by *"It's gonna rain soon",* as if she knows what kind of guy he is & how he handles these types of situations in an instant as opposed to Mangahood where she doesn't quite get it at first.
Also, another point i wanna make for Brotherhood. The whole *"it's fully faithful to the Manga"* stuff... That's a bit of an oversimplification cause Brotherhood either changes some stuff around or in some cases, completely cuts stuff from the Manga. The worse offender of the latter is how they cut so many scenes from the Ishval War. Just wanted to point that out
Honestly, someone needs to just cut together. scene for scene. for the scenes that are shared by both and just let the viewer watch, just like you did at the end of this video. One is clearly better than the other......
I think both have its strengths and weaknesses. 😊
FMAB's fanbase is one of the most toxic fanbase I've ever seen.
Have you seen the MHA fan base?!
They said one of
5:56 "What am I fighting fooooor!"
WE'RE ONLY HUMAN!
@@etheri0n959 AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!
I saw a comment that said FMA:B is perfect, they should watch this video
Hey, glad you liked it man, thanks for the positive comment.
@@etheri0n959 hey etheri0n plain have you only watched only broho?
try the manga it's real good
03 is pretty good kinda the ending sucked though it made no sense and was more convuluted than evangelion it tried waayyy to hard to be like that show
03 is really good though still love it
its got way to much filler
I'm so glad that there are actually a lot of people who prefer FMA 2003 and don't like Brotherhood all that much. This video helped convey some of my opinions. I think 03 is way better and there were so many "serious" moments in Brotherhood that I found laughable
I’m one of the people that like 2003 better and it’s actually my second fav anime I still like brotherhood but it was way too rushed like everything was happening way too fast
@@TomoyaOkazaki2 the pacing was awful. Some things would go by way too fast and then the final season just *dragged on*
@@TomoyaOkazaki2 It would be one thing if it was just rushed, but it often feels like Brotherhood has absolutely no sense of pacing, rushing through the absolute vital opening part of the Brother's journey to then drag out everything after the first meeting with father endlessly. You could have easily cut 10 episodes between like ep. 30 and 64 and used them to flesh out the characters more in the beginning. The Manga has way better pacing.
Thank you! This show has so many problems that everyone is in denial about. The soundtrack is so repetitive, every episode plays the exact same songs!!!
I loved that in Brotherhood, the Ishvalan philosopher stone was used on Mustang. You know, the hero of the Ishvalan genocide. I mean, it was great that they didn't even ask any Ishvalan citizens who helped save their people, even though they owed Amestris absolutely nothing. They didn't even ask Scar! A room of people who helped create the stone in the first place decided what to do with it. Wow, that bodes well for the future.
Look, I am okay if Mustang got his eyes fixed. However, the way it was done was really bad to me, and segments that the manga and brotherhood are weak when it comes to meaningful racism/colonization commentary. Part of Mustangs character is about how he wants to truly atone for Ishval and help build it up again. But a part of that is respecting the Ishvalan people. He should have asked them if he could heal his eyes. Scar or an Ishvalan leader. Because at the end of the day, that's their people in the stone. It has been shown that sentience is possible in the stones. So, the Ishvalans should have a say on how the stone is used. It wasn't Marcos position to say shit. Even though I like him, he was one of the top scientist that made the stone!! And the frustrating thing is that it would be so easy to write in.
lmao, that does bode very well for the future.
Yo they completely removed Mason's role of 03 and the manga in brotherhood.
Yeah, I remember he just kind of showed up in one episode, which was weird.
@@etheri0n959 Legit only like 2 seconds, while in the manga and 03, he was a huge part of what helped Ed and Al realize the meaning of "all is one and one is all." on the Island. In fact, the whole Yock Island thing was just butchered imo. I personally really love Brotherhood like a LOT, but things like that were so impactful in 03 and the manga, and by rushing things like that it just didn't carry nearly as much weight to it. Events like the Coal Mining thing too. I really like how 03 went into stuff shown in the manga. Brotherhood left out so many scenes from the manga (even parts of the conversation Martel had with Alphonse about her past) or even the funny stuff like Roy vs Ed or Jean getting rejected by Catherine. I feel like in someways the manga is more of a middle ground between 03 and Brotherhood in terms of many things, and when people say Brotherhood follows the manga to a T I really feel compelled to disagree. Personally I love both a lot, but I have to fully agree with you on Brotherhood's beginning being super rushed. And the flaw in the argument that Brotherhood relies on 03 is obvious since so many people just plain out skip 03 or don't even know of its existence. Really bugs the heck out of me.
I always loved the 2003 FMA growing up, it is hands down one of my all time favorite anime, and when I kept hearing about this "faithful" adaptation of the manga and how everyone was gushing about it I decided to check it out. I was left feeling...underwhelmed...and confused. Why was everyone praising it as better than the '03 version? Why did so many things feel rushed and not given any weight behind motivations or actions? Why were there no consequences? I voiced these opinions to my fellow anime friends and they stared at me like I had just murdered their families. They got so personally offended that I *didn't* like Brotherhood as much as them, and to this day I honestly can't understand why its fans are so ravenous about Brotherhood.
I have many complaints of the show but basically it all boils down to nothing having any serious consequences. I haven't watched that show again since the first time I saw it, and that was probably 10 years ago, so I can't quite remember everything, but wasn't the main villain some kind of gaseous substance in a flask (that then turned into Father?? can't remember) who wanted to "swallow the sun"?? At that point the show completely lost me, especially when you actually see it happen. Despite the show being fiction where anything can happen, that sort of thing never made sense to me in the universe that it's set in. It was just...too much.
2003 FMA has its issues with Dante as the villain but she was way more believable in that world where someone would resort to mass murder over many centuries just to keep herself alive a little longer and forgo the consequences of her actions and death. This is believable because we've seen this happen in our own world. Perhaps not immortality, per se, but the murdering of millions of people just to keep your own power alive and well. But in Brotherhood the villain wants to...eat the sun...Make it make sense.
My biggest issue with Brotherhood is Edward's character development. Ed was very mature for his age, but he was still a kid. However, in Brotherhood he acted like an adult and a hero since the beginning. Sure, he was arrogant and a hot-head, but it's not enough to portray a teen. Also, his character development was very weak: during the series, he only learned to rely on other people. After he was defeated by Kimblee, he passed through the most important part of his development, but it was never showed, and the only thing we've got was that horrible fight between Ed and Pride. Another point: the ending. Father wasn't bad, but he was Hohenheim's villain. The fight between him and Edward felt cliché and artificial. Also, in the end Ed decided to give up alchemy, but how did he know he could did such thing? To make matters worse, his connection with alchemy was never explored, except in the very beginning. Ed never doubted about the importance of alchemy. And why he allowed Ling, Mustang and other characters to use the stone? It didn't make sense, and it felt only like a way to give a happy ending to everybody.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Brotherhood, but it's not perfect. The 2003 series isn't flawless too, but Edward's character development was handled better, IMO. Sorry for my English :(
Hey, no problem. Very comprehensive comment. And yeah, eds development as a character is really good in 2003. Although 2003 is far from perfect. Ed's character was one of the best aspects of the show for me.
@@etheri0n959 I agree. Sure, the 2003 anime had some plot holes and the cyborg guy, but I prefer it over Brotherhood because of how it handled the main characters and the brotherhood (the irony!) between them.
@@etheri0n959 i think both eds have different ages in the beggining too
During the events of the alchemy exams, Shou Tucker and Barry Ed was 12 in 03 and the manga, but he was 15 years old in brotherhood
Wich is a situation that creates some problems with brotherhood's version of Ed
@@JosephFlores-yn4yi yeah, the 2003 anime was supposed to be different since the beginning. Personally, I prefer the first half in the original anime, it's grittier, creepier and more emotional than its manga/Brotherhood counterpart.
nobody cares about ed enough to care about his development but ok
Of course the show is less subtle about the thematics and explores them in lesser depth, because it aims to resonate more with the core of the anime audience. When shows like Dbz, Naruto and One Piece are the most sold/ popular anime, it is understandable why Broterhood tries to hold your hand so much, then the vast majority of anime consumer are children, teenager or young adults. Mature writing isn't appreciated as much, because the majority of the audience isn't mature ether. This why Brotherhood is for so many the better version, when objectivily the 03 version has better writing. Brotherhood is very much a typical battle shounen anime, following alot of the same troupes:
- Over the top drawn out "epic " battles
- Villian who wants to rule the world/ destroy the world
- flat characters, little character developement.
- Alot of fights.
- Cliche, good guy's always win mentality.
- little to no consequences, very forgiving when it comes to mistakes.
- Black and white morality.
- Fairy tale ending.
And when you realize that Broterhood follows all these points faithfully, you realize why it is considerd one the greatest anime of all time. I agree the 2003 version is better, but Broterhood is just simply what the majority of the anime fan base prefers, and we see it daily there are many animes who are better written , but because they dont appeal to as broad of an age range as shounen anime they are less talked about and fma 2003 is one of them.
Too true, it really is a shame that that's the case most of the time.
This is something I have had serious issues with Brotherhood. And as someone else in the comments pointed out, it also hedges far too much on the manga as a crutch, not taking advantage of the change in medium. And man, that point about Envy was also really important. Compare that to 2003 where his relationship with the Edwards was hinted on extremely early before finally coming to a head in the finale.
Yeah, Envy's character was a really interesting aspect of the 2003 series. In hindsight, I probably should have expanded on that in my '03 video. Thanks for checking out this video.
it's ironic that 03' is more focused on the brotherhood of the elrics than Brotherhood.
It's also very ironic the way Edward dies on 03'. The series, as I just said, is heavily focused on brotherhood, so Ed being killed by his half brother, is very powerfull.
Another thing that is overlooked are the 'magic gimmicks' at the end that are left unexplained.
Example 1) While we did get one scene of Hohenheim setting it up, his nation-wide anti-transmutation circle which would release all souls is not explained. We get what Father is doing bc we have seen it a lot of times already at that point, and we understand that this is just large-scale human transmutation. Also, Scar's circle is also set up properly, with the cast spending a lot of time deciphering the manuscripts of his brother, and setting it up during the time skip. But Hohenheim's? Nah, just works. How? Why is this possible in the first place? Not saying it is a HUGE stretch, but it is clearly not a well-established power or anything.
Example 2) Why can you sacrifice your own gate? How did Edward figure it out? This has no set-up whatsoever, but is brushed aside by most FMAB fans. I remember watching the show for the second time when it hit me: "Wait. Why can he do that?" The problem is that THIS is THE resolution for Ed's arc, and the brothers' journey overall. So it is VERY important to set this up properly, otherwise it comes off as an asspull and robs the journey's end of emotional impact - assuming you are watching the show with your brain switched on. It was a cool moment for Ed to give up his alchemy to get Al's body back, no doubt about that, but surely there must have been a better way to set this up apart from just pulling it out of nowhere?
And hey, perhaps I missed some details on all my previous viewings. But to me, for a show so revered for having a tight 'hard' magic system with great plot, it stumbles a lot in the final act, and leaves a lot of the magic 'unexplained' in the sense of not setting it up correctly. I am not asking for some deep metaphysical explanation, just consistency and proper set-up.
Anybody else?
Thats actually an interesting point. On first viewings I didn't have problems with it, but now that you bring it up, I do have to question it a bit.
To play devils advocate 03 is a lot less consistent with how alchemy works with them transmuting golems that move around when their just supposed to me made of rock. Maybe the cognitive dissonance from the system being so good through out brotherhood makes it worse when they don't commit to the rules.
Jesus Christ. I agree with everything here 12,000%. ESPECIALLY the parts about Envy’s death scene. They spend absolutely no time setting up that jealousy angle and then have the audacity to reinsert several different lines from earlier in the show as if they want to show us how they set this up. Even though said chosen lines do not point toward jealousy for humans in any way, only a distaste and disdain for them. It’s like an even worse version of that scene from Interstellar where Anne Hathaway talks about how love is the only human force that can transcend time and space. Get the fuck out of here with that unearned, stupid, poorly thought out and condescendingly dumbed down bullshit.
Another thing I’d like to add to what you’ve said is that there are entire characters that are only ever explored, or at least the majority of their exploration, is through monologues and explanations. Case in point, King Bradley. Think about it. How else do we learn about his worldviews, other than him blatantly spelling them out for another character? We have the beginning of episode 22, where he corners Ling and Lan Fan and they start having an argument about kings duty to his people. For no reason. We have episode 24 where he’s explaining to Pride his conflicting feelings towards his role in Father’s plan. We have episodes 25 and 26 where he is speaking to Mustang in his office about his backstory and about a soldiers worth when he puts on his uniform. Hell even on his DEATHBED in episode 61, he is still thoroughly spelling out for her why he doesn’t feel the need to leave any last words for his wife. You noticing a pattern? He is never delved into beyond what he SAYS about himself. There’s no hidden clues of details to pick up on from minuscule actions that may seem small at first but significant when you think back on them. King Bradley is only interesting on a conceptual level. His views themselves are worth artistic consideration, but the way they are presented is just so goddamn boring on a storytelling level.
What makes this all the most infuriating is that there ARE characters, such as Olivier Armstrong, that are explored through the actions they take (giving Grumman a broken watch while the men are in the tunnel, and later simply smiling and going “I don’t know what you’re talking about) and nothing more is spelled out for the audience than needs to be. So they can do it right. But they just sometimes royally fuck it up.
Really well said. I completely agree. The lack of subtlety is a major flaw with Brotherhood, that many people tend to look over. Anyways, thanks for commenting.
Thank you so much for summing up so perfectly what I couldn’t stand about brotherhood. Great job!!
I don't think lack of subtlety makes a story automatically bad but I have to say I'm quite annoyed by people who praise FMAB all day, every day and yet crap on the lack of subtlety in other shounens. It feels hypocritical.
I don't think lack of subtlety makes something automatically bad either. I like fairy tail even though thats the least subtle thing ever. But when handling deep topics like racism and the horrors of war, a little subtlety is necessary in my opinion. Thanks for the comment.
The best way to watch is to watch 03 first and then watch the Brotherhood. 03 is Sad but complete with a bittersweet ending. Brotherhood also has a very powerful happy ending and believe me both can make you cry. But it's a fact that Brotherhood lacks character development, introduction of important characters, Ed & Al's attachment with their mother that led them to perform human transmutation, and many more. The way Brotherhood jumpcuts to main points, I wouldn't have been able to watch Brotherhood if I had started with it directly. Brothers develop relation with Nina and Alaxander that makes the Nina's death so much meaningful and sad to them and to us. Mustang executing Winrey's parents was much more heart breaking than Scar killing them. Lust didn't get chance to develop and got early demise. Alchemy exam journey was much better in 03. Also the scene where Mustang tells Ed to catch the train really was very important for me. Even the music was far better in 03.
Also one question always bugs my mind.
How the hell were they able to turn the trains around from the stations? 😂😂😂
Yeah, all of those bits that you mentioned in 2003 were pretty great and added to the power of the original story in my opinion.
@@etheri0n959 when we combine both, no other show can ever beat them, ever, for me at least. But you still didn't give my answer. I asked it in the last line.
Honestly man, couldn't tell you. Its still a mystery.
Thank you.
Unpopular opinion but this is exactly the reason why I dislike Ed's last monologue from Brotherhood. I don't feel like is as climatic and important as in 2003.
Yeah, I agree with that. The last bits of Brotherhood didn't do it for me personally.
In both 03 and the manga, rose appeared at the shop and Ed learned of Rose's past BEFORE he came to the church. I have no clue why Brotherhood changes that. Also in the manga, Rose happened to be slipped inside of Al's armor so she could hear Cornello's bad guy speech, yet again great stuff.
Ed: MAYBE THE REAL ALCHEMY WAS THE FRIENDS I MADE ALONG THE WAY
Me: ua-cam.com/video/Gxep5Z1h3_U/v-deo.html
I agree with so many things in this video BUT there is one thing about Envys death I'd like to say:
His reveal to be jealous of humans because of there emotional support for one another does not make sense st first, but when you actually go back into the series and find the subtle hints ( when he's trapped in the jar and May is helped by a bunch of strangers and he says " they sure are nice" or something like that, and when he is aggravated that the entire group is working together before his fight with mustang) it all makes perfect sense. Not to mention the lines that are playing in his head that he said earlier on in the series. It is one of those moments that you didn't see coming, but when you think about it, makes actual sense.
Oh, ok, now that you bring that up, I can admit that I did initially miss that. I may have to go back and check for more just in case, but I still feel that it was a lackluster reveal. I think they could have reinforced it a bit better than they did, but that subtle hint does give more context. Thanks for watching the video.
I watch fullmetal alchemist brotherhood but recently and I am still in the middle of watch 2003 and I swear 2003 is amazing why did nobody ever tell me
My problem is that there are way too many side characters for me to care about. The chimera henchmen are ones I can think of at top of my head.
If you think about it, the existence of the chimera henchmen retroactively makes the Shou Tucker plot thread nonsensical. If they government already had the ability to create perfect chimeras, why did they waste their resources on Tucker? They could've just pretended they believed his experiments were immoral and dismissed him.
Did I write this video? I feel like I could’ve written this video.
No, I have no idea what you're talking about...
cough cough.
I'm gonna be honest I am a much bigger fan of Brotherhood, but there is a lot I enjoy about 2003. The opening sections are much stronger and it does allow us to form a deeper connection, and while I do personally love the humor in Brotherhood I completely understand. I think had 2003 had the full material it would have been amazing. Or as I always said if you took both of the best aspects of the show you would have a true masterpiece. Overall though a very good video with a lot of valid points.
I love fma 2003 and fma manga , but I don't like brotherhood , not that I hate it , but execution and jokes in inappropriate moments and almost all the time made me drop it at ep 25 (and I watched it after 2003 anime and before read the manga)
Yeah, the way brotherhood handled most of itself really bothered me, glad to see, I'm not the only one who feels that way. Thanks for watching.
Brotherhood was a fun show to watch, with compelling characters. However I feel like it has not explored the themes enough, did not have quite the right tone for the story it was trying to convey. 2003 has an horrific aspect, and actually conveys how there are consequences to your actions and that there is no going back. The past is gone, just like you only die once. You have to live with that in that universe. With consequences. Also, 2003 made me almost cry or had my heart ache at almost every episode. Even in "fillers", there was always a brief moment, a glimpse of humanity coming at me.
Brotherhood had a story to tell but I feel like it did not know how to tell it, and I think the manga has this problem too, to some extent. Edward 2003 keeps failing but has to live with that. Ed Mangahood does not use the stone, but let the other use it, and actually NEED the others to use it or kill some people/homonculus. He kind of let the other do it for him. Letting Ling use the stone to become a ruler... what are the ACTUAL consequences of that? It kind of legitimizes and normalizes the use of the stone, made of souls and victims of genocides. This is the message it sends to the entire world : If Ling Yao uses it, why couldn't we? 2003 makes a parallel between the stone and nuclear weapon for instance, that I find actually interesting. There is cost in the actions, once again. Also, equivalent exchange is a sort of a lie in the 2003 universe, but that does not mean you sould not try to make things better and act. It is bittersweet but also SO HOPEFUL.
Anyway... I just feel like 2003 manages to convey a very arsh and large message/theme through micro (aka. the story of two cursed brother). Bro/manga goes on the macro scale (with the story of the brothers searching for their bodies just in parallel) but forgets that you can actually tell through individual and very personnal exp. a very very deep layered story with theological and moral stakes. I just feel like the premise is not exactly organically linked to the rest of the story, it just happened to meet half-way I guess. Like the beginning is about living through the consequences of your actions. It does not REALLY follow up after that. The origins of the homuculus in 2003 makes more sense here. In bro/manga Edward is reassured that the taboo act he did was not as bad as he thought it was. At that moment the mystery behind what happened and the stakes fell flat to me. The two shows are clearly not the same genre.
Really well put together and interesting points made here. That part about Ed letting others just use the philosopher stone for him was a different take that I haven't heard much. Thanks for that and thanks for watching.
@@etheri0n959 just realized i forgot to add a part where i actually comment on the video lol but great video and analysis!! thanks for keeping producing new fma content and commentary! There is so much to be discuss but the fandom and else seem a little bit sleepy for now... so as someone who watch both shows only recently, I love your approach and the time you invest into making those videos! wish you the best!
In all honesty, I think that both 03 and brotherhood are good.
Yeah, no problem with that.
I think both Anime are stronger together,both communicate with each other or at least that's how it feels to me.
Like Walt Disney's Pinocchio and Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio,but other that del Toro,no one planed this😂
Great analysis. Keep up the good work!
Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for leaving a comment!
Brotherhood reminds me of DBZ Kai, cashing in on "manga accuracy" over quality.
It was agony to watch the final act of FMA 03. It was agony watching Brotherhood the entire time.
Okay not here to start fires but: to pin the failing of brotherhoods first quarter is unfair, the manga (and this might be unpopular opinion) does not have strong start. How does Ed know how to turn himself into philosopher's stone? Do you remember after he fought Kimblee in Briggs and the chimeras pulled the stick out of his stomach and Ed used his own life energy like a stone? And Kimblee is doing what he always does, pointing out flaws in character philosophy, I dont understand what is the problem? I feel sympathy for envy as he is the embodiment of fathers envy and like almost every homunculus understands it in the end which is in contrast to fathers refusal to see anything wrong with himself. Anyway, I enjoyed your video and agree that anime fandoms can be toxic, lets change the discord to more civilized discussion and remember that we can disagree politely :)
Hey man, really good points you made. Sorry I couldn't respond earlier, but I can see the merits in your arguments. Only thing I want to set straight is that I am criticizing Brotherhood for having a rough start, but I'm also pointing out that people defending that aspect of the show is kind of silly, especially if they're using the reasons I listed. Other than that, really good points, I just personally disagree with them. Thanks for the nice comment.
@Demo Gorgonzola Ok, there seems to be bad communication on my part, I don’t like the first third of this manga, 03 and brotherhood in general. Ed is too obnoxious protagonist and maybe that’s the point, to see how far he has grown but if not for the hype on brotherhood I would not have seen that growth. So I’m glad they skip over it. You are allowed to have your own opinion of 03’s and the manga’s start
If you can turn yourself to soul energy as a singular unit without getting entangled to other souls which tends to be the case when creating stones for the most part, I don’t think its too much of a stretch you can figure out how to reverse it, granted it will take years of your lifespan. I don’t think Marcoh’s men had clear understanding what is it they are creating (concentrated soul energy) just how to do it (Draw circles and kill people) and certainly not how to transmute themselves.
Kiblee is absolutely in character, he is psychoanalyst and ethic debater first and “a psychopathic war criminal” second. If this looks corny to you, fine but it is totally in line with his character.
And I don’t address Ed’s speech because there is nothing to address, I agree. Envy’s death is set up for Fathers final scene at the gate, its a perfect contrast because Envy unlike his Father saw his sins and flaws. The fact that this realization comes from Ed’s stupid monologue speech does not change the fact he gets it.
@Demo Gorgonzola So the bad communication error I made on my first comment is the poor choice of words "unfair" and I wanted to clear that up. English is not my first language so I’m sorry. This was only meant to be my opinion.
Marcoh is the only one required to know what is really happening when creating philosopher's stone and like I said, even if the assistants know what is happening, they still wouldn’t know how to transmute themselves. I would also assume that it would require a circle of different sort to do that and to turn back which would have to be made beforehand if you have not seen the Truth unlike Ed who can just clap his hands, even Marcoh cant do that. The "understanding" part is really badly defined in general. Is it understanding what symbols to put on circle, the one is all and all is one or just basic understanding of how physics and chemistry work? On classical or quantum level? Is it all?
And this scene is mostly Ed’s scene, and the heroic and triumphant tone is for him not Kimblee he is just a side character. if it is corny for some OK I get it but it seems to work for most viewers, myself included.
And ofc its fair to say you don’t like Envy as a character, I would very much like to hear what improvements you or any one else who is reading would make to Envy in brotherhood?
@Demo Gorgonzola Ok so I re-watched the Pride vs Ed scene and the scene, the music starts to play when Kimblee appears but you have to understand, this scene is ultimately about Ed and his triumphant if the criticism is about misplayed music I can kinda get it but like the songs beginning, Kimblee is the build up for the climax of this scene like the songs beginning is build up for the triumphant tone of the song
The biggest disagreement seems to be about how alchemists cant break free from the stone. As we later see when Hohenheim activates the reverse circle for Fathers philosopher's stone after he absorbs what he calls God they do break free so Im not entirely sure if the ingredients see the Truth and if they do that they have any sanity left after (the souls that crawl in Envy’s body and the "creations" of Father which resemble former Xerxians seem to be Zombified)
@Demo Gorgonzola Oh plz, this is internet so our debate was very respectful and mature in comparison, and it was my pleasure.
It is true that the souls in Hohenheim’s stone regained their sanity but only because he himself bonds with each of them (granted, impossible in real world) and that is why they tear trough Fathers leather container.
If the souls inside philosopher's stone can break out this inconsistency (and I clap my hands and pray to Truth I’m using this word right this time) is unfair for only brotherhood, why cant they break out of Scar’s arm or later Al’s metal body? There must be someone in there who knows how human transmutation works, scar’s brother come to mind at first but scar hunted down so many alchemists that at least someone knows in 03’s timeline who is also made sacrifice (And I know in this timeline Ed is not doing it either, but Al is doing a similar thing and this might be assuming too much as I’m very much operating at the edge of my reasoning in saying this should also be possible at 03’s timeline)
My new favorite channel
Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for the support!
More "Brotherhood" flaws:
-The slapstick which was mostly conveyed through post-plot omakes in The Manga is exaggerated to Looney Tunes levels.
-The returning VAs are initially much more wooden and the new VAs either make no effort or an overly noticeable effort to sound like their `03 counterparts in The Dub .To be fair, this somewhat improves over time.
-The Tucker,Youswell and Cornello arcs are absolutely butchered, as is Roze Thomas`s entire character!
-Father and his minions` competence levels are dipped a few centimeters compared to The Manga.Father`s also revealed way too early to have the impact he`s supposed to!
- Pride in The Manga was more stoic and calculating, in "Brotherhood" he`s more sadistic and pretentious.
I do feel as though the voice acting for Ed especially is way different in both versions. He sounds like he got kind of rusty in Brotherhood to be honest.
@@etheri0n959 Ya which is understandable because Vic was reprising a role he was 10 years out of practice on as well as going through behind-the-scenes drama within the industry and legal issues at the time, and he did improve later.( But ya, he never got that emotional rawness in `03 back and he even said `03 will always have "a special place in his heart."(And I`m sure he was thinking to himself "And lungs,oh boy lungs" ).
When you realize father was revealed in the first episode of brotherhood ._.XD
What about when you realize the main plot twist of the show is spoiled in literally the first two seconds
I get what you mean. I do like both of them a lot but I really think you missed a lot of moments from 03 that lacked subtlety as well. There is literally a moment where Al looks at Martle and says she is just like Scar because she wants vengeance… but to make it hit you over the head even more he flat out says after saying that comparison to himself “vengeance is wrong.” And the fact that he has a little boy voice makes the scene sound even more ridiculous from a subtle standpoint. There are many other moments too in 03 that are just characters expositing plot points, character motivations, or moral dilemmas while we clearly see that ourselves while in the scene or from prior development. My point is both of them are lacking in subtlety while 03 does take time to set the scene a bit better it is not exempt from being called “in your face” with its messages and meanings. Brotherhood might do it more but they are both guilty of it through their own stories.
Yeah I think brotherhood has a lot of problems but this point just doesn't make sense because 1. As you said 03 (which I love) also has a lot of those moments and 2. Not being extremely subtle isn't inherently a bad thing, sometimes it's important to give enough context so that the audience doesn't interpret something the completely wrong way. There are definitely moments in the show where subtlety gets thrown out the window but some of the examples shown like mustang crying are just straight up not it
both are still fantastic animes (imo) which is all that really matters at the end of the day
As a person who adores Brotherhood and that likes it wayyyy more than 2003, great video. FMA fans in general tend to get really toxic about which series is best but you made great points and remained respectful to Brotherhood fans. I don't even disagree with you, I think Brotherhood has a serious overexplaining problem and the part at the end with Selim was an ass-pull.
Dude, you may only have,like,4 or 5 videos but I agree with them all!
Hey thanks man, I really appreciate the support.
@@etheri0n959 No prob!
I'm a simple person. I see a Jojo Reference, I click
Overall I prefer '03 due to it's more consistent tone though overall I'd say they're pretty on par when it comes to it's overall storytelling and characterization represented a well as what's inferred especially since with both iterations there's this unique sense of depth you rarely see, in general. The humunculi overall have just as much presence but with brotherhood giving them this monstrous forms which represent the humunculi in their purest forms it's unique and does something creative with the idea of them being sins. Father coming from the gate and Dante being able to open it of her own free will I'd say gives both of them a distinct presence and makes them both imposing in their own regard.
Between the 2 Brotherhood is my favorite but I know it's not perfect and the first 13 eps. could've been better. Also calling Brotherhood a 100% adaptation is a flat out lie, yet some FMA fans have the gaul to say "We've seen it no need to read it"(Yes this is a real thing). Plus having read the whole manga myself there's actual content from the manga that got cut out of the anime. Here's a couple examples-Hohenhiem has a pretty badass scene saving a caravan from some muggers which also foreshadows his hidden immortality. While Mustang and Al's crew are dealing with Lust Ling and Lan Fan have a short battle with Envy and Gluttony which at the end of said fight is the moment that canonically introduces Pride The Ishval. Hell the first 14 episodes adapts and I kid you not almost 8 volumes of content which btw is about 30 chapters and that's pretty bad.
P.S Yeah I have no idea why the anime had that Cornello Hulk moment it was incredibly stupid.
Can someone tell me if there's still a way to watch the 03 version for free? It got taken down from all sites I used to watch fma on ;-;
Don't think there's a way for free, but if you have a Netflix subscription, it's there. Thanks for watching.
@@etheri0n959 It's not on Netflix anymore, but ty anyway ^^
03 is better. Countless videos documenting its superiority.
Best one comes from UA-camr Lowart
and lowart isn't even against one or the other
I found my people
Question for anyone, what part in the Nina Tucker scene were you hoping was more subtle if you were at all, just slightly confused. To me the scene was to drive the point of humanity's atrocities across, and to show that even the main protagonists of were capable of the same things Shou Tucker was. The part where Shou says to Edward "You and i are the same" really felt like the driving factor in this scene to me, and the sadness of Nina just highlighted the sadness of this realization for me.
The problem I have this the Tucker reveal scene in Brotherhood isn't necessarily a lack of subtlety, it's how ungodly insistent it is on the emotions it wants to get out of you. Great scenes to me don't have to tell you to feel a certain way, they just present something in a manner which makes you feel the way they want.
03 is more of a character piece and a better told story than brotherhood, which is typical shounen fare.
03 spends it's time more on the relationships of the characters. We meet Hughes and see the birth of his daughter and we see her as she grows up.we spend time at Izumi's and we get her past and we focus on her loss and shame we dwell on alphonse's feeling of inadequacy and we see the little moments with Winry.
With brotherhood, those things don't come till late, where at best they're comparable but most of the time it slows and weighs down the story it was racing to tell.
How would you rank the 8 Homunculus death scenes (I know Pride technically doesn't die but whatever) in FMAB? From worst to best.
Lust - burned by Mustang
Gluttony - eaten by Pride
Envy - suicide
Sloth - death by testosterone
Wrath - disarmed by Scar + old age
Pride - wibbly-wobbly Philosopher's Stone shenanigans
Greed - self-sacrifice
Father - consumed by the Truth
Sorry for the late response. But my ranking would be
1. Greed. I legitimately liked his character and dynamic with Ling and although the whole friendship thing was cliche l, I did feel like it fit.
2. Wrath. The furor was one of the things that I actually liked more in brotherhood than in 03, because there was a bit more depth to him, like when he talks about his family and past, and his last fight was pretty cool in my opinion.
3. Lust. Lust's death was dissapointing to me at first, cause how she was in 03, but the animation was really good, and over time, I thought that moment was a pretty cool one for Roy.
4. Sloth. Thus one might be weird, but his fight with Armstrong was fun and entertaining, with cool moments like Armstrong getting punched in the arm to fix his dislocated shoulder.
5. Gluttony. There wasn't much to this one, but I liked the irony of the death, where Gluttony died because he was eaten.
6. I'd say pride for this one. I made fun of it in my video, but there was something to this fight, a lot more to it than the deaths above this one in my rankings. I think it was a good character moment for Ed and Pride's redemption at the end was pretty sweet. Personally though, I was just caught up with the moments I mentioned to rank it higher.
7. Father. His death felt kind of anticlimactic to me. It felt as though they were building him up to have some master plan, but he went down relatively easily in my opinion and at the end, I didn't really think much of it.
8. Envy. For the same reasons I mentioned in my brotherhood video, envy is the worst death in my opinion. While there is stuff to him in this final moment, it just feels unearned and abrupt.
Sorry if my list gave you an aneurysm. Hopefully I made some good points here. Interesting question, thanks for asking.
OMG. Yes to everything! The violin music is a cheesy Godfather rip-off, while the music that's supposed to inspire dread is better suited for clowns! That score is horrifying, and I couldn't believe when the show tried to make Envy sympathetic! WHY!?! There were a couple of plot holes, too, although the only one I can think of at the moment is that both Greed and Wrath were part human, but it was possible to mortally injure Wrath, but not Greed.
Thanks so much for the comment. Glad that you enjoyed the video.
Well the reason Bradley could be mortally injured is because he was only one soul(since he conquered all the souls inside of the stone until his was the only one left) while Greed still had numerous souls inside of him, so Ling could heal when Greed was in control of his body.
@@karinakamichi4557 Huh. I can't speak for the sub version or the manga, but in the English dub, he didn't say anything like that. He only said he wasn't sure what soul was 'in charge' now that he'd become a homunculus (and that's a paraphrase, not an exact quote), but I didn't come away with the impression he had fewer souls than any other homunculus and why would he be different from Ling when he and Bradley underwent the same procedure?
@@literatiglee In the sub Bradley outright said that "There was only one soul left and the feeling of wrath.". Dont know about the dub but it has a history of distorting and omitting stuff like it did in 03. I like Dub but I suggest looking back over some things in Sub for certainty.
@@literatiglee So I looked back over it in Dub and he basically said "Countless souls battled for dominance and only the most wrathful one survived" before going on to explain that he didnt know if it was his birth soul anymore or the stone's soul.
FMA 2003: NITZSCHE, sad ending masterpiece
FMAB: DISNEY average ending
I'm on episode 15 of FMA:B...and I just want to know...there is less "comedy" in the 2003 version or not?
There is definitely less comedy in 03 than brotherhood
To be honest. I liked them both.
Is possible that both events happened, but in a different universe of the same multiverse.
If you watched Conqueror of Shambala you would understand what I mean.
So based, so much facts spit.
The fight against father and every other bit of the related finale is just plain awful.
Lmao I just remembered what the "we're only humaaann" thing reminded me of. I couldn't put my finger on it until just a few minutes ago. Click on the video linked below and go to about 13:24
ua-cam.com/video/zR8sRjBJgQ8/v-deo.html
For me, it reminded me of Mega Man X4 and Zero shouting "What am I fighting fooooor!" after Iris' death.
that was exactly what I thought of wow @@ThePreciseClimber
I love FMA 03 ❤
Great video
I think both combined would be better. If only it was put into one story. People think that just because 2003 moved onto its new story makes it not as good, but I think both are great in their own right.
original is WAY better than brotherhood IMO - the pacing and tone of brotherhood SUCKS
14:36 I wish there was
Lmao i felt no emotion from any of the shots still the ending scene from 03 the music too idk 03 just always hits me in the feels
I liked FMA 2003, I just didn't like the ending at all.
Isn't that basically what made it good and special?
it's remind me about steampunk on minimal
FMAB is crap here is why
1)they establish the idea of equivalent exchange then ignore it in every episode. when mustang makes fire or ed makes rock walls or the one guy makes a bunch of guns what are they giving up? This makes the combat boring as every fight can be settled in eds favor because magic. Establishing rules and then ignoring them is just bad storytelling they would have been better off never mentioning equivalent exchange then least then it would be consistent.
2) ed is the worst alchemist in the show. They say he is special because he does alchemy without a circle because he saw the truth when doing human transmutation. Problem: Literally the only alchemist in the show who ever uses a circle is Edward,(mustang created fire with a finger snap is cool but it completely breaks the shows lore) meaning he is so useless he needed help to do something so basic everyone in the show can do it.
I can go on but the idea that FMA is anything but mediocre is laughable
.....you do realize that ed uses the ground in order to make the walls right, you can clearly see the ground indents below where he made the wall, mustang uses the oxygen around him to fuel his flame, and as literally anybody who took chemistry would know, fire doesn't burn unless there is oxygen to burn as thats what it uses as fuel, kind of like propane though propane is easier to explode, it does actually follow equivalent exchange. Just to further my point, Cornello was using an incomplete philosopher stone to make the gun, an object which as you would later come to know is powered by a lot of energy, and as anyone who eventook a physics class should know, E=Mc2, this equation by Einstein allows you to convert latent energy into mass provided you have a lot of energy, and vice versa. That equation gave us the atomic bomb btw which is literally splitting an atom to release this energy and if you can gather enough energy and concentrate it you can create atoms and mass as proven by the LHC in Switzerland, converting pure energy into something tangible is possible. Regarding your Ed is the worst alchemist statement that's not true either, Mustang actually uses a circle which is drawn on to his glove(which is made of a material to act as a flint and steel for a spark), basque grand uses two metal rings on his handsfor circles and Armstrong uses a circle carved unto his knuckle dusters, they all have circle which if destroyed would mean they are useless and have to actually draw their circles, we actually see this in ep 19 of brotherhood when Roy looses his gloves he actually has the carve the circle into the backside of his hand and use Havoks lighter as a flint and steel.
If anything you are the medicore and laughable one, spewing out garbage points that are all so clearly disproven in the show.
I'm always going to be a Brotherhood fan more than a 2003 version fan. But with that said, the 2003 version is still good.
I wanna say that the beginning of Brotherhood is an absolute slog but I also feel the last third of the show was very poorly handled. The pacing of Brotherhood is all over the place and the ending overall felt thrown together and not well thought out. The giant boss battle at the end was so boring and the alchemy made no sense.
2003 is bad Brotherhood is worse
FMA sucks
Agreed nobody understands how
bad it is
Everything you said in this video was perfect!
Gyat
Ngl i skipped parts of the first 10-12 episodes of BH, very boring to begin with.
brotherhood is to Shonen and is for fan girls and simp boys
I've started rewatching both series and I've told people if they want a manga accurate good adaptation mixing both anime they should watch the first 24 eps of 03 and then move on to ep 10 - 64 of brotherhood to get the full experience without the drop in quality. But this isn't my only gripe with brotherhood it's too comedic and takes me out of the experience. Way too much comedy that a lot of it falls flat and gets really fucking annoying..
Personally I watch BOTH versions. Watch the first 18 episodes (halfway through the battle with Slicer in the 5th laboratory) and then switch to the appropriate place in Brotherhood. I call it the Alchemists order. (Like the Machete order for watching the Star Wars movies) granted, that’s just me...
The problem is, that FMAB has no obvious or big flaws, that one can criticise without being being unfair, because most "issues" of this show are just very minor things, like this video also shows. BUT, that doesn't mean that the story is "the best of all time" or anything even close to that. The story just isn't anything special. (You are free to disagree with me on this.) FMAB is extremely overrated, not because it's actually bad, but because people keep praising it to high heaven, despite it not actually being that special.
fma 2003: brotherhood sucks! You skipped too many manga chapters!
Fma brotherhood: the manga author added new characters, and added a new type of alchemy. And where’s your canon storyline?
More is not better. Canon doesn’t not equate quality. You are five years old.
@@seafoam6119 This is Fullmetal Alchemist we talking about not Shaman King, the manga story is objectively better.
@@Indeeee no
I'll tell you what's happening. When we as people grow up and have watched a lot of anime we start to pick apart new ones we watch. We don't just let go of our worries and just let the show grab us. We over analyze with our stinky adult brains. This show is better when you're 15/16 years old and if you haven't seen much of any anime.
I am 16 years old, and the show failed to grab me. Even aside from the points I made in this video, brotherhood was very boring to me.
@@etheri0n959 Oh damn... well then i guess it's just not your type. Because i love them both. I think that neither one is perfect. But only when you watch them both can you see the full picture and then it feels like one perfect show.
I find it interesting how people get mad at the beginning of brotherhood miss the point. It is suppose to rush through it so people have a reason to watch fma 03, if brotherhood decided to retell the same story they would do it better so if brotherhood has a better beginning than 03 and is more faithful fun and better noone would care about Dante or lust 03.
Alternatively, we have to look at runtime it takes 03 half of its entire episodes to reach the lab while in brotherhood it is within the first 10 episodes so it can cover new ground and tell the rest of the story instead of rehashing the past.
I find it interesting that this argument is completely false and has been debunked countless times before and yet people still think it's true. But let's just say, for the sake of argument, that it is true. Why does purposefully half assing or rushing a critical part of the story excuse it from criticism. The answer? It doesn't. Unless you can provide an actual reason as to why that would be acceptable other than the good old 2003 exists and therefore makes it okay for a studio to not try their best. An adaptation that can't properly adapt the material being handled fails as an adaptation. If the creators of brotherhood really wanted people to watch 03 before brotherhood than why would they even waste resources and money adapting the early material? They could instead just start from the new material instead of redoing the material already provided in the version your supposed to watch first in 10 sloppy episodes.
They obviously didn't do that because then a shit ton of people would get confused because 03 introduced it's own concepts as well as a much darker and different tone and atmosphere. But they could have made the rest of the material coincide with 03 better to make the canon ending fit with all of the new stuff. They didn't do that though because brotherhood was meant to be its own thing, not the sequel to 03.
@@etheri0n959 the evidence is within the show if brotherhood was bad throught then yeah it shows flaws and bad decisions, but after the lab brotherhood is an excellent show and a perfect adaptation. The director didn't magically get good overnight then decided let's make a good show it was obviously purposeful that the beginning lacked since episodes 10-50 are too good to show accident or ineptitude.
To reiterate if brotherhood took the time and effort for the first arc as they did for 10-50 then why watch 03? If brotherhood had a better beginning than 03 then why care about 03? To compare it to western media the origional lion king is far superior to the live action one it doesn't matter that the live action one is different it better who cares it is a lesser movie, it would be the same situation in reverse don't watch 03 its different but brotherhood(with a great start) is better in every way.
My argument wasn't that brotherhood makes 03 obsolete. It's that brotherhood was never intended to be watched in the way that you describe. These are two completely different shows in terms of tone, direction in story, and in some cases entirely different characters.
And no, brotherhood is not a perfect adaptation. It does a lot of the manga dirty. It takes some really amazing artwork in the manga and makes it look as bland as possible. The direction is very bare bones, as it presents a lot of the concepts in fma in the most one dimensional and uninteresting way possible. On top of all this, brotherhood is just boring. The action is not paced very well, and nothing else about the show is impressive either. None of the concepts that they bring up are especially thought provoking or super complex. Yes, there's war and racism, but all they have to say about these things is that they're bad. In the case of the ishvallan war especially, brotherhood cut out a shit ton of material from that arc. They condensed an entire arc into one episode. And the difference in quality of these two versions is night and day. The manga's version of the story actually does a good job of making it feel like a crappy, nightmarish, awful slaughter. Everything in that arc is just so unsettling and it makes YOU feel like shit after reading, cause you felt it yourself. It was long and arduous and I felt like resting after reading. In brotherhood, they replace all of those evocative scenes full of incredible imagery with a couple of dead bodies and a kid crying in the middle of a freaking battlefield. How lazy is that?
Everything in brotherhood just feels like a cheaper version of the events that took place in the manga. Even the art style feels so cheap and uninspired.
I think the next time I turn in a paper at college I’m going to intentionally give zero fucks about the first 20% and when my teacher asks me I’ll just tell them it’s supposed to be that way and demand an A+ for being meta.
@Apollo14 Worst part is that'll probably work.
I’m 14 episodes into FMA Brotherhood and there hasn’t been 1 episode that is any good and the ONLY protagonist is Scar!!!
Lucky to get a 2/10!!!