Recording Drums, Part I: Overhead Mic Placements Compared
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- Join Justin Colletti and SonicScoop for this in-depth look at overhead mic techniques.
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Filmed at Strange Weather Brooklyn, and using microphones provided by Sennheiser, this video covers how to set up overhead mics using some of the most popular and flexible methods in history, including: XY, ORTF, Spaced Pair, Glyn Johns, and the classic "Mono Overhead" approach.
Each of the sound clips in this episode consist of no more than 4 mics: A pair of overheads, plus close mics on kick and snare. The overhead mics are a pair of Sennheiser e914s, the kick and snare mics are the e902 and e905, also by Sennheiser.
All the clips are presented with no EQ, compression, or effects processing of any kind.
Stay tuned for additional sound clips, plus our upcoming episodes on close mics and room mic techniques!
For more videos in this series, subscribe below, or sign up for our newsletter at SonicScoop.com
Watch "Recording Drums, Part II: Close Mic Techniques" here: • Recording Drums, Part ...
Watch "Recording Drums, Part III: Placing Room Mics" here: • Recording Drums, Part ...
For more on Sennheiser's Evolution Series microphones, visit: bit.ly/1csnjL5
This series was shot and edited by Elias Gwinn of Velidoxi.
Man, Glyn Johns always gets the tone of the snare in a place I love. I think if you skewed your centerline to align with the kick-snare axis you'd get a more focused image on the kick. I'm glad the drummer's qualuuds kicked in for the session, keeps him nicely in the pocket!
Yes, if we were making this video again, we’d definitely show the 45 degree trick for spaced pair. It gives the cymbals less stereo spread, but does center both kick and snare.
Thanks for the kind words. Means a lot coming from you guys!
-Justin
@@SonicScoop That would be awesome to show. Thanks a lot for this one!
3:08 XY
3:20 ORTF
6:22 Spaced Pair
6:35 Glyn Johns
7:16 Mono
For more precise comparison:
XY 3:08
ORTF 3:20
Spaced pair 6:22
Glyn Johns 6:35
Mono 7:16
How do you do that btw? The links to the time in the video? Thanks :-)
All you have to do is put the time in your comment...the rest is magic... 5:10
hahaha. Oh it's that easy! Damn. lol.
Thanks for doing that !!!
Glyn Johns was my fav
Thanks for the video! One quick tip for the next one: When you do a comparison with different techniques, pleas play the clips continuously right next to each other. Always, no exceptions. No fades, no breaks. At least do this at the end of video when everything has been explained already. Any break between different setups makes the listening and difference comparison very difficult for the human brain as the context is immediately lost. Playing the clips continuously helps a ton especially when we're dealing with very subtle differences.
You can ask him. Please, will you ask him? Don't appreciate your demands. And yes, I would to see your ideas implemented.
For Comparison;
XY 3:07
ORTF 3:19
Spaced pair 6:20
Glyn Johns 6:34
dsrecs this should be the top comment!
dsrecs There is always a good youtuber. Thanks man.
dsrecs you forgot the mono one! 7:16
Nobody likes the mono one Lol! Just kidding!
Exellent presentation. As an engineer with 47 years' experience, I can appreciate this. Important to note that the least amount of phase cancellation will be with the X-Y.
I think part of the reason Glyn Johns sounds so good in this video is that it captures the hi-hat more than any other technique. Definitely something to consider
I feel that this video will help everyone who wants to try drum mic'ing. And, as a person who was so impressed, I want to upload and share this video on my channel with Korean translation if it's possible. That's because I want to try studying about the audio recording in more details. I'm planning to translate another videos about recording more and more for Korean, and of course, for me. I wish you will let me that. This is Peter Park from South Korea. Thank You :D
I have made it my mission to aggressively improve my drum recording technique. I loved this. The "instant" comparisons are awesome and let me know "what I like" right away. Thank you! I never knew what to call these options! Thank you
Recorderman technique will center your kick and snare. You can also use the Recorderman triangular measurement technique to find great placement options for all overhead mic setups including spaced pair, ORTF; even XY can benefit from being placed on a Recorderman-style triangulated axis
Glyn Johns method sounds great especially for rock. Mono sounds more hip hop and R'n'B. Spaced paired would be great for some far out music maybe inspired by the 60's. XY is quite snare heavy i prefer the ORTF which is more balanced and classic Awesome video!!
The Glyn Johns method made that snare sound great. Could an additional overhead help with the width?
This looks to be a great series of videos. Thanks very much!
Superb three-video series. Thanks for putting material like this.
George Massenburg made a series of videos where he talked about centering the kick and the snare between the overheads. That way both kick and snare stay centered in the stereo image and phase is kept at a minimum. This can be used with spaced pair or XY. It doesn't make sense to space the pair directly in front of the kit - the snare ends up off to the side in the overheads and centered on the close mic, smearing your stereo image. Check out his video on micing drums. He invented the parametric EQ, he's pretty smart. I've tried this technique many times and it's much better sounding than centering in front of kit. Stand in front of the kit and move until the kick and snare are directly in line: that's your center point. Space your overheads equidistant from this point.
I've been doing that ever since I watched the video and it's so much cleaner than any of the above techniques. I do minimal miking these days . A stereo pair aligned according to the G.M. technique, a kick drum mic and a ribbon pointing into the snare that captures both the top and bottom and combines them.
Is this a copypasta?
The Recorder Man technique is similar to Glyn Johns but takes both kick and snare in consideration, and it does a pretty good job. It sounds tighter and is less sensitive to bad rooms.
This is a great video. Detailed, clear and great sound quality. Big up SonicScoopVideo !
Best OH tips I`ve seen here in UA-cam !
Thanks a lot ! Cheers.
Glyn John is my favorite thank you
awesome sounding kit!
That kit sounds AMAZING!
Great video thanks, I love that the drummer seems to be looking at you from the sofa with 'what is this guy doing' face
Great videos! They are easy to understand and offer a lot of great information. Thanks.
Awesome vid!! didn't know about the Glyn Johns and I really liked it, I'm trying it tomorrow!
Awesome how well you can notice the stereo, kind of panning sound across the drums!. Very nice video.
Good sounding room , kinda puts the High Ceiling a Must theory to bed . Really nice touch Parker ,
probably sound good playing any kit . Great video , top quality audio .
These video's have helped me a lot. Thanks for sharing some of your techniques, man.
great tute.. I just had a session the other week with just ribbon mics.. using ortf and over the shoulder and about 6 more lol... sounded dope... Loved your classic set ups... thank you
Ivan K
as both a drummer and a recording engineer this is a great detailed video! thank you so much!
the best video on youtube about drum recording!
Great video. Please keep these coming.
I used the Glyn Johns technique that you suggested and it worked out great. Good video!
These are some of my favourite videos of yours I've seen Justin :) They really cut the chat and get to the point!
Thanks! We like to keep them tight and sweet when we do tutorial videos.
The podcast is another story :) That's where we go deep and try to hammer home new and better habits.
This video is so awesome!
What a gem of a video. I've always done a spaced pair since getting enough inputs for everything, but before that I did glyn johns and had a lot of fun with it! Dug out my garage sale stereo bar and am gonna try ORTF now. Thank you!
thanks for sharing!! amazing video !!
Thank goodness. I needed to know this.
One of my favorite videos out here. I find myself coming back to it every now and then
same lol, great vid
Great video!
this is a really great video. thank you
Thanks man great video!
Amazing video!
I like that drum kit!
Been looking for something just like the Glyn Johns approach, I'm gonna try it out today!
i like that guy! he is awesome and he put it so simple! thank you so much i would defenetly try all those techniques
Brilliant. Very informative. I always did the wide spacing overheads and panned them 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock to start, adjusting input levels until the snare was centered. Since the kick had its own mic, I could pan it microscopically to compensate for whatever off center the O/H's made it. The reason I always go with the wide panning kit is that straight-up-the-middle can interfere with the vocal. Only the bass, kick and vocal get center panning
One of the few how-to videos where the sounds actually sound good / mixable and not all overly "studio" / "produced". Great job! The Glyn brought a nice sweetness to the snare wires and hats that wasn't there as much on the others, more of that airy "action" sound, kinda cloudy / puffy. That and the mono setup were my faves.
always fun to see micing techniques for drums.
This just helped me do my homework! 💪🏽
Good introduction.thx
Thank you!
thank you!
We had a 7 mic setup in our drum booth. It sounded poor due to comb filtering/phase issues. We tried the X-Y pattern with overhead condensers. Mixing that with just a kick mic and a snare mic, the sound is clear, natural and in phase. The live drums now sound perfect in the house mix. Thank you!
Great video. Thanks! Very interesting the Glyn Johns method. With IEMs, the difference is quite obvious. I will play around with these on my 13 piece.... 8P
Great video, we carry out similar experiments during our Recording Studio Sound Engineering module with first years. Expectation Bias always leaves me pleasantly surprised with a Mono overhead!
I always find Glyn Johns to be a little unbalanced due to the spatialisation difference between the Floor Tom and Rack Tom, however, it sounded really well balanced in the room in this video!
Sooooo needed this! Been recording drum covers for two years and didn't know these technique names. Amazing studio going there! We have a small drum room padded top to bottom with low ceilings. What is a good general height to put the over heads above the snare in a paired placement? (or above the cymbals height?)
Perhaps thin was not the best word but the Glyn Johns just had a certain presence and darkness to the drums I didnt hear in spaced pair. The cymbal spread was excellent but the drums sounded a little too bright for my taste.
Great video btw! It is the most thorough and concise drum mic overhead placement video Ive seen yet. I only have four mics so I'll be sure to test out all of these methods. Its exciting to be able to hear these slight nuances and be able to discuss them as well. Subscribed!
There is a video out there of Glyn Johns placing his over heads and it's all on approximation of the position. He pretty much says it's simple to do with little thought. when asked if he ever measured the distance of his microphones. he replies. "No. It's bullshit." .. look it up, very entertaining .
Great video,.. nice job,
Awesome video, thanks so much!
Are the session files available for download? I'd love to analyse them in greater detail in Pro Tools.
Good stuff , thanks ♫
thank you actually going to class confident this really helped
Another nice option is to do a mid-side with a nice condenser for your figure of 8 mic, it gives you a nice "stereo width" control for your kit without having to use a cheesy plugin.
Thank you very much for this video! It was extremely well done! Very thorough! It really helped a lot! =D
that Glenn John is so new to me..have to try it out!
Especially the crash on the drummers left side is panned significantly more to the outside. The ride a bit less, but the change in dimension is pretty obvious. I would choose the X-Y. Pretty stereo image, but not panned too wide. Good demo, thanks :)
3:09XY
3:20 ORTF
6:23 Spaced Pair
6:35 Glyn Johns
7:17 Mono
Sonicscoop is da best!
That's right Dock -- We panned these from the audience's perspective to match up with the images on screen.
When "centering" the mic placement for spaced pair, I often try to center both kick and snare! I'll use a mic cable to measure an imaginary plane between the center of the snare and the center of the kick, and then use that plane as my center reference.
Great video and thanks for the info. One detail though that I always wonder about which seems to be left out is how far do you pan each of the channels on the mixer? For instance do you hard pan the Right & Left channels? Do you pan them 50% each way (3 oclock and 9 oclock)? Do you change the panning for each different technique. Would be interesting to know but thanks again. I use the Glynn-John all the time with no snare drum mic - just 2 overheads and a bass drum mic - works great!
Another vote here for Mr Johns, gonna give that a try tomorrow.
mono overhead and stereo rooms is how i almost always do drums. just sounds right to me. i keep a solid center image but with a little stereo spread from the room mics adding width as well as depth. i also like the glyn johns approach, it works well when you have a drummer who can balance themselves well. often don't even need tom mics.
Nice! had some good results with this recently, except used mid-side config instead of a mono overhead. How far back i the room do you tend to put the room mic's when you do it this way? In the corners?
@@polyopuk4179 totally depended on the room and if i had other instruments going live with the drumkit. generally i have a pair of mics, usually ribbons on either side of the kit maybe 3-6 ft out..and i move them depending on what i want to hear for the song. also, a stereo royer or aea r88 ribbon, i'll often have right in front of the kit looking down at it, m aybe 1-2ft from the front of the kick drum. that can sound really cool too.
@@crestiferj2689 Thanks for sharing, definitely going to try this out in the next drum tracking session!
I exclusively use Glyn Johns when I overhead mic drums. Generally I'll use a ribbon mic that points over the floor tom and an omni-directional small diaphragm condenser centered over the snare to really get the height in the overhead.
Great tutorial !
I enjoyed it and will be watching this a few times to learn the techniques.
| Thnax4posting
For me it's always been record specific. I've been doing mostly space-pair now, with an additional single overhead mic for room (or the mic is placed even further in the room to get that uniform sound). All in all it's the drummer who seals the deal. Everything else is secondary. As for phase...that's what flipping it is for, so you can check the relationship between all of the tracks and fix any of those issues.
Hi Justin… this is one of the best tutorial I ever seen!!! So, can you explain how to pan channels in these techniques? Thanks a lot...
Thanks Claudio. For most of these patterns, I usually go hard left and right, but it's all to taste in the end.
For Glyn Johns, most folks will pan the tom side overhead all the way out, but only pan the snare side overhead halfway out to help center the image a bit.
great video
Great question Dock!
On the first three clips, the overheads are panned hard left and right -- 100%.
On the Glyn Johns setup, the left mic is panned 100%, and the right mic is panned about 50%, which is the convention.
Panning 100% can sound pretty good on Glyn Johns too. (Especially if you're using a close mic on the snare.)
We'll definitely be including even more of this kind of info in future installments, and will be going deeper & deeper as the series goes along.
Thanks for watching!
So... great video, fantastic explanations. Suggestion: Since we’re trying to hear a stereo sound, let’s play a measure of a cheesy beat, then do two soft and two loud 16ths on each drum, followed by right crash half note (without, then with kick), same on the left, end with a cheesy Ride beat for a measure. And as someone else mentioned... PLEASE put them back to back for a real comparison.
I really appreciate how much time and effort it took to do this, and we all got a lot out of it. But it’s UA-cam so we all get to sit back and say “I could do that better” (how many drummers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? 7...one to do it and 6 to say “I could do that better”). Lol
Thanks again, Steve
Hi. At the time of recording, once we've placed the pics for the overheads, what should we do in the mixer?? I usually route one Mic into a Channel in the mixer, and pan that mic LEFT completely, and the other one RIGHT, is that correct??
I was hearing this on a potato and noticed the Glyn Johns better than all other types. Will be taking note of thay my good sir.
OT: Nice to see the M400 hanging about in the background. I'd assume it gets much love from everyone who walks in there?
Thanks Justin - just one more cuz I'm dense! :-) Can you confirm that the left mic in the Glyn Johns is the "overhead" tom mic and the right is the "overhead" snare. i'm thinking that makes the most sense but just want to be sure. thanks again for the vids and keep'em comin!!
Quick question about spaced pair: I learned that the wider the mics are placed from each other the smaller the stereo image is. Why would the spaced pair give an exaggerated stereo spread?
I like the spaced pair! In a mix this would be wide
On spaced pair, do you pan the snare mics to the side of the overhead that captures the earlier signal? Do you time align/phase align overheads with snare mics? Thanks
Holy shit that kit sounds amazing.
great video! , thaanks. We are listening only the OH? without process? , or are with eq and with the close mics? thanks :)
Ah,.... takes me back to the Atlanta Institue of Art Music Studio..... great stuff, thx!
Mic phase issues can be resolved by having the drummer hit the kick/snare alone at the start of the take. Use a delay to slow the channel that is early until it matches up with the other channel.
By the way great tutorial
Thanks superman!
I prefer to center the snare, because the kick has much lower frequenties, so the soundwaves are much longer. Because the soundwaves are long at the kick, and short at the snare (the snare has high frequenties), you notice the difference of the distance from the spaced pair better when you center the snare, and not the kick.
CBGaudio It certainly is, but the goal of overheads is not that the kick and the snare both are centered, the goal is to record cymballs and shit. You must not forget that. Its possible and pretty simple to center one of them, but the most important thing is that it sounds good.
CBGaudio It's true - you can rotate the overheads 45 degrees to try and center the kick and snare both. It's a much less "classic" approach, changes the sound of the spread significantly.
(There's also some potential to cause additional mono compatibility issues on kick and snare, depending on distance. That can be avoided though.)
You may like it. It's not a bad way to go at all.
Perhaps we could mention that, and some additional advanced overhead techniques, in a follow-up video. There's only so much you can fit into a 7-minute clip!
i really like the glyn johns method.
how do you pan the "overheads"? hard left-right? both mics same volume?
Same volume. Johns has said in recent years that he tends to pan them about 50% left and right, but his classic recordings sound like hard left and right to me, and that's what I do.
The exact positions can vary a bit depending on the layout of the kit and preference.
On a daw?
Just pan it all hard left like the Beatles
I really liked how Glyn jones sounded, would you recommend me using it in a live performance?
At the moment I have been using the spaced pair technique, what is your opinion regarding OH mics for live act?
Thanks, great videos!
No, because it's high maintenance. When you do it right and can work really well, but it can also sound worse than any other setup if it goes wrong. Spaced is the most common and is pretty hard to screw up. ortf and xy are kinda meh but they are impossible to screw up. These are qualities, if you don't appreciate them now, you will some day.
when comparing takes, did you mix the near microphones with? (I think so) it would be interesting to hear just the overheads mics too.
For the glyn John's effect are you only using those two condenser mics for the whole drum set? Or are you also using dynamic mics on all your toms and bass drum. And are you using one mic on the snare or two or none? Basically I'm asking for all the mics you used to make the drums sound like it did in 6:35
Glyn Jones and Mono sound by far the most useful right off the bat. All of them would work fine however.
dat Glyn Johns snare doe