I think Tyler forgot to mention or isn’t aware of Sport Sambo when he was talking about sambo not mastering the finer arts of grappling. Sport Sambo today is more old school judo than actual Olympic judo!
@@rns7426 you are exactly right if only sport added chokes and rotational leg locks it would be perfect. I still love the sport though. It has given me a lot.
Came here to mention Sambo Nation and the 3-4 other places in the DFW area. There are probably quite a few in other big cities as well, especially NY (Combat Sambo School) & LA.
That’s sick I do Okinawan karate and I love it as my striking and I also do boxing but for grappling I like judo and Krav Maga sambo I wouldn’t mind trying
While I can understand the merit in an argument from jiu jitsu guys that "Judo guys don't train much ground work." this doesn't really mean much when Judo guys that do train ground need to execute submissions in 30 seconds instead of 5 minutes.
Yeah, in a real fight, judo is taking everyone if they get grips. The fight is over when they get the throw, your head or torso slamming into concrete can’t feel good.
From my experience of multiple clubs that competition teams competing right up to Olympic level, they train Newaza every session. And what they train is practical stuff. 90% of BJJ is sport specific stuff that is worthless in fighting. You need good takedowns, pins, simple subs, escape from mount, side and back. Judo covers all of that except maybe the back where they’re happy turtling
I like the point about not getting brain damage. I think too many dudes value martial arts based on how much damage they can do to the opponent versus how they can keep themselves safe in a fight.
In defense of katas... my son has been grinding nage no kata in preparation for his judo black belt test. It has dramatically improved the quality of his throws in randori, as he's really been forced to focus on the details and pay attention to how his execution differs from the standard. Used correctly, katas can be an excellent tool. I.e., don't think that karate or taekwondo katas are the same as in other arts.
Sanda never gets mentioned cause most westerners have never heard of it, but it's honestly really good as well. It's Chinese kickboxing that's sort of like Muay Thai but more permissive with the grappling allowing not just foot sweeps like Muay Thai but full on hip tosses like you'd find in Judo. I don't know any male practitioners who come from this base but in female MMA Zhang Weili the current UFC champion in her weight class comes from this background
2016-2019 Team Lakay has a very heavy sanda base. They compete for ONE and at one point they had 4-5 champions in different weight classes. They have since split apart after they were getting beat by international athletes who had miles better grappling which is unfortunate because it literally isn't Team Lakay''s because fault the grappling scene in the Philippines is not as deep as the talent pool in other countries.
@@m5a1stuart83Kosen judo is still judo. They learn the Gokyonowaza the same as the parent kodokan. The rules of their competition are different but they can still win with Ippon throws.
Some comments here: - wrestling produces the most UFC champions of any fighting discipline, not bjj; - you mentioned two karate champions, as if they were the exception, but you ignored the efficiency of Kyokushin karate, which is shown through the career success of fighters like Bas Rutten, Semmy Schilt, GSP, etc. - karate is an umbrella term for a diverse range of styles. Not every style has the same ruleset or objective like BJJ. Traditional Okinawan karate is focused on self-defence, not competition. - Judo is a dominant style and has often shown superiority over BJJ due to their specific winning strategy. - interesting how you quickly ignored catch wrestling, which is a wrestling style with submissions. Luta livre, BJJ's main grappling competitor art in Brazil, has origins in catch. - kata isn't just a karate thing, it's a tradition present in many Eastern martial arts, like kendo, judo, iaido, etc.
What I like about TKD and similar arts (Karate, TSD, etc.) is that like BJJ, you can spar pretty hard without as much risk of injury as if you went that hard in boxing or any of the other KO sports. Because (most of) the strikes are to the body, there's much less risk of CTE or concussion. It's a risk/reward thing. I don't fight MMA, I don't compete in those types of competitions. I'm not in a profession or town where violence is common. I'll gladly take a slightly less realistic style over the added risk of CTE.
JM Modern Jiu Jitsu teaches Sambo classes in Baton Rouge, LA. We have an old school Sambo practitioner with black belts in Judo and BJJ, as well, and he's competed Sambo all over the world, including in Russia.
I'd say BJJ is a bit overrated these days. It was very underrated, as was all grappling, until UFC1. Then it seemed to be a superpower. Now we've realised its limitations and in that time sport rules have made practicing take-downs a rarity in many, many gyms around the grounty. Sport BJJ is just that: a sport with SOME crossover application for a street/bar fight. However, that aside, comparisons between arts as "practical" on the basis of who would beat who in a real fight, are kinda silly. Practical "self defence" applications of these arts are not likely to be one highly trainer art vs another. It's gonna be art vs a thug/bully.
Japanese Jujutsu - combat sambo with the finesse in techniques. BUT, there's no real, hard, pressure testing for 2/3 of the techniques. Judo is the result of taking those techniques out and leaving what you can do repeatedly, full pressure, against resistance without losing training partners every session. When I took up boxing I thought I was already hot sh1t at punching from 9 years of Jujutsu. Big no. Boxing is another level. TBH before watching Tyler's videos I used to rag on BJJ in my own mind. But I'm slowly changing haha (excellent point about the brain damage man, have to train for life not a brief flashy career in your youth).
Everyone shits on Kata but all kata really is, is connecting different techniques in a specific sequence. Very similar drills in bjj. Yes some kata look highly stylized and ineffective but they’ll a tool for learning how to apply, connect and flow from different strikes/techniques.
Tyler spangler don't say Karate because their is kyoshushin karate and okiwana karate has 4 or more different styles and different countries have a different origin some styles of martial arts can be dominate Japanese ju jutsu was used by samurai's.grappling takes longer to level up and striking arts don't because some martial arts are not as strict it depends on you.
@@beelzebubbla Good point, but for any martial art, the process could be a lot faster and easier with great instruction. But generally speaking, some martial arts tend to require more time for one to be proficient at it and to make it applicable in real fighting.
My hapkido instructor who studied catch wrestling since the 80s always says "You Jiu Jitsu guys think you invented the ground game, you've just repolarized it" lol
I agree and not agree with your statements, I know everyone is "biased" when it comes to their own sports/ martial arts. But it depends on the situation. In a "street" fight, if you can grab the guy, then yes, BJJ would win, but that is assuming he is alone, and not with friends who would kick and punch you while you try to choke the guy. But one on one, yes, BJJ is very effective in a controlled envirionment. A BJJ guy in the streets against an experienced Judoka would lose, he will just throw the BJJ guy on the pavement and it's GG. Same goes for wrestling, he would pick you and just slam you on the cement. This goes for boxing, kickboxing and muay thai as well, getting punched, elbowed, kneed and/ or kicked in the face, low kicks, BJJ guy would lose if you can not grab the striker, since BJJ does not learn striking or how to take a punch/ kick in the body/ face. If you do grab the striker before you get KOd, yes BJJ would win. Saying Sambo does not work. well look at Khabib Nurmagomedov when he was active in the UFC, not only was he undefeated, he dominated every fight against the best strikers, wrestlers and BJJ guys in the world. So yeah Sambo does work. In a controlled envirionment like a gym, I agree with you Tyler, BJJ would win in most cases.
Katas are a bunch of bs and if you are spending money on your kid doing katas stop immediately your kid will not benefit an ounce and will send you to a nursing home as soon as you ask to move in… katas don’t do it
@@kaboose111 katas are completely useless in practical martial arts, and i had to learn some to get my Judo black belt. If you spend the same time doing randori/sparring or any other form of practical training it will always be better...that said, you can enjoy kata and there's nothing wrong
@@simoneguidani I get the feeling you believe kata is done every class or session. We do kata for like 30 minutes once a week. When you strip the kata down with bunkai, you begin to see its application and how it works either your sparring.
I fail to see how an art that no striking has is the most effective. If these BJJ people also train striking, then sure, they will be fine. However, if they do not, then they will most likely panic as soon as the first blow lands. Especially if it is a kick. Also, it seems like you purposefully overlooked some of the hardest styles of Karate. I like the McDojo channel, but it should not be your source for learning about an art. Kyokushin, Seidokaikan, and Ashihara are very intense striking arts. Hell, even without punches to the face in competition, Kyokushin is still highly effective because of the conditioning, train striking, and even have light clinch work. Seido is Kyokushin that is kickboxing. Ashihara is both, but with throws and some groundwork. Kudo is another one you either do not know about or just chose to ignore. It includes combines Karate and Judo and produces very skilled fighters. Kenpo 5.0 is a solid system as well because of how it incorporates ground fighting and clinching. Andy Hug, a famous Kyokushin and Seidkaikan fighter, was well known for wreaking havoc in the K-1 heavyweight division. Overall, BJJ is still an exceptionally good thing to learn, but it is not the "be all, end all" style. In the future, when you want to criticize something like karate; you may want to dig deeper into the styles, understand how kata is applied to the fighting, and learn more about the fighters it has produced. Otherwise, you will just sound like a BJJ Brolosopher.
Most martial arts are underrated. BJJ is overrated in the Jiu-jitsu sphere. Your BJJ is almost useless if you can't take anyone down. If you hip toss or suplex someone on hard ground, that would end the fight for a lot of people. Karatekas throw kicks at all sorts of weird angles, and some without telegraphs. Imagine you go to parry a teep and catch it, but it was a question mark kick, and your hand is at your waist. These arts just have different goals and mindsets. Jiu-jitsu is awesome, but it is not the end-all-be-all. I believe JKD is the best martial art, because it takes whatever is useful. You go to a JKD school, you are training BJJ, along with Muay Thai, and Kali, as well as being taught the fighting ranges(kicking, punching, trapping, grappling) and how to flow between them.
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I coach Sambo at Sambo Nation Fort Worth you are always more than welcome to come try Sambo with us and make a video on it!!
I think Tyler forgot to mention or isn’t aware of Sport Sambo when he was talking about sambo not mastering the finer arts of grappling.
Sport Sambo today is more old school judo than actual Olympic judo!
@@rns7426 you are exactly right if only sport added chokes and rotational leg locks it would be perfect. I still love the sport though. It has given me a lot.
Came here to mention Sambo Nation and the 3-4 other places in the DFW area. There are probably quite a few in other big cities as well, especially NY (Combat Sambo School) & LA.
That’s sick I do Okinawan karate and I love it as my striking and I also do boxing but for grappling I like judo and Krav Maga sambo I wouldn’t mind trying
While I can understand the merit in an argument from jiu jitsu guys that "Judo guys don't train much ground work." this doesn't really mean much when Judo guys that do train ground need to execute submissions in 30 seconds instead of 5 minutes.
Yeah, in a real fight, judo is taking everyone if they get grips. The fight is over when they get the throw, your head or torso slamming into concrete can’t feel good.
From my experience of multiple clubs that competition teams competing right up to Olympic level, they train Newaza every session.
And what they train is practical stuff. 90% of BJJ is sport specific stuff that is worthless in fighting. You need good takedowns, pins, simple subs, escape from mount, side and back. Judo covers all of that except maybe the back where they’re happy turtling
7:25 The Sambo gym Sensei Seth went to seemed pretty legit and convincing.
I like the point about not getting brain damage. I think too many dudes value martial arts based on how much damage they can do to the opponent versus how they can keep themselves safe in a fight.
Yeah man! Transparent labs does taste good! Props to you for getting them as a sponsor man!
In defense of katas... my son has been grinding nage no kata in preparation for his judo black belt test. It has dramatically improved the quality of his throws in randori, as he's really been forced to focus on the details and pay attention to how his execution differs from the standard. Used correctly, katas can be an excellent tool. I.e., don't think that karate or taekwondo katas are the same as in other arts.
Sanda never gets mentioned cause most westerners have never heard of it, but it's honestly really good as well. It's Chinese kickboxing that's sort of like Muay Thai but more permissive with the grappling allowing not just foot sweeps like Muay Thai but full on hip tosses like you'd find in Judo. I don't know any male practitioners who come from this base but in female MMA Zhang Weili the current UFC champion in her weight class comes from this background
2016-2019 Team Lakay has a very heavy sanda base. They compete for ONE and at one point they had 4-5 champions in different weight classes. They have since split apart after they were getting beat by international athletes who had miles better grappling which is unfortunate because it literally isn't Team Lakay''s because fault the grappling scene in the Philippines is not as deep as the talent pool in other countries.
@@ngo2950 RIP in MMA you gotta get that grappling up
Kung lee fue uno de ellos.
it's time to reunifie judo and BJJ
You have Kosen Judo
Word
@@m5a1stuart83unfortunately it’s non existent outside of a couple universities in Japan.
@@eamonob84 Kosen is a ruleset, if you follow its guideline you have Kosen Judo. In your train just focuses more in Newaza.
@@m5a1stuart83Kosen judo is still judo. They learn the Gokyonowaza the same as the parent kodokan. The rules of their competition are different but they can still win with Ippon throws.
really nice job with a complex topic Tyler
Surprisingly nuanced video. Was expecting memes. Totally agree man.
Some comments here:
- wrestling produces the most UFC champions of any fighting discipline, not bjj;
- you mentioned two karate champions, as if they were the exception, but you ignored the efficiency of Kyokushin karate, which is shown through the career success of fighters like Bas Rutten, Semmy Schilt, GSP, etc.
- karate is an umbrella term for a diverse range of styles. Not every style has the same ruleset or objective like BJJ. Traditional Okinawan karate is focused on self-defence, not competition.
- Judo is a dominant style and has often shown superiority over BJJ due to their specific winning strategy.
- interesting how you quickly ignored catch wrestling, which is a wrestling style with submissions. Luta livre, BJJ's main grappling competitor art in Brazil, has origins in catch.
- kata isn't just a karate thing, it's a tradition present in many Eastern martial arts, like kendo, judo, iaido, etc.
It is always about fighter not his discipline, so relax. It is just an opinion.
What street fight goes for 10-15 Min. on the ground?
Tyler be questioning hisself after locking up with that Olympic wrestler😂
Tyler "Sleeper Build" Spangler
Tyler Gyattgler
What I like about TKD and similar arts (Karate, TSD, etc.) is that like BJJ, you can spar pretty hard without as much risk of injury as if you went that hard in boxing or any of the other KO sports. Because (most of) the strikes are to the body, there's much less risk of CTE or concussion.
It's a risk/reward thing. I don't fight MMA, I don't compete in those types of competitions. I'm not in a profession or town where violence is common. I'll gladly take a slightly less realistic style over the added risk of CTE.
JM Modern Jiu Jitsu teaches Sambo classes in Baton Rouge, LA. We have an old school Sambo practitioner with black belts in Judo and BJJ, as well, and he's competed Sambo all over the world, including in Russia.
Imagine being a wrestler who also knows judo
I don't think jiujitsu is overrated, but a LOT of martial arts are underrated. Judo is such a good martial art that unfortunately no one cares about
Counter point, bjj is gi only
Nogi submission grappling is its own thing
No
No it’s not. It’s a subset of BJJ. I turned up at no gi and still beat half the guys just adjusting my gi skills on the fly. It’s the same sport.
I'd say BJJ is a bit overrated these days. It was very underrated, as was all grappling, until UFC1. Then it seemed to be a superpower. Now we've realised its limitations and in that time sport rules have made practicing take-downs a rarity in many, many gyms around the grounty. Sport BJJ is just that: a sport with SOME crossover application for a street/bar fight.
However, that aside, comparisons between arts as "practical" on the basis of who would beat who in a real fight, are kinda silly. Practical "self defence" applications of these arts are not likely to be one highly trainer art vs another. It's gonna be art vs a thug/bully.
Japanese Jujutsu - combat sambo with the finesse in techniques. BUT, there's no real, hard, pressure testing for 2/3 of the techniques. Judo is the result of taking those techniques out and leaving what you can do repeatedly, full pressure, against resistance without losing training partners every session.
When I took up boxing I thought I was already hot sh1t at punching from 9 years of Jujutsu. Big no. Boxing is another level.
TBH before watching Tyler's videos I used to rag on BJJ in my own mind. But I'm slowly changing haha (excellent point about the brain damage man, have to train for life not a brief flashy career in your youth).
To be honest telling a karateka to learn regular kickboxing to learn kicks is so incredibly stupid
Everyone shits on Kata but all kata really is, is connecting different techniques in a specific sequence. Very similar drills in bjj. Yes some kata look highly stylized and ineffective but they’ll a tool for learning how to apply, connect and flow from different strikes/techniques.
Honestly I like Japanese jiujitsu and use it in bjj but for me since I’m a striker mostly I feel judo is cool for me
Tyler spangler don't say Karate because their is kyoshushin karate and okiwana karate has 4 or more different styles and different countries have a different origin some styles of martial arts can be dominate Japanese ju jutsu was used by samurai's.grappling takes longer to level up and striking arts don't because some martial arts are not as strict it depends on you.
Thank you I do Okinawan karate and it’s legit
It’s not the martial art but the artist 👍
Except aikido because that's just the art 😂
No
Nice cliche. There's a big difference between needing a year or two versus 10 or more years to get to the point where it's effective.
@@beelzebubbla Good point, but for any martial art, the process could be a lot faster and easier with great instruction. But generally speaking, some martial arts tend to require more time for one to be proficient at it and to make it applicable in real fighting.
My hapkido instructor who studied catch wrestling since the 80s always says
"You Jiu Jitsu guys think you invented the ground game, you've just repolarized it" lol
I agree and not agree with your statements, I know everyone is "biased" when it comes to their own sports/ martial arts. But it depends on the situation. In a "street" fight, if you can grab the guy, then yes, BJJ would win, but that is assuming he is alone, and not with friends who would kick and punch you while you try to choke the guy. But one on one, yes, BJJ is very effective in a controlled envirionment. A BJJ guy in the streets against an experienced Judoka would lose, he will just throw the BJJ guy on the pavement and it's GG. Same goes for wrestling, he would pick you and just slam you on the cement. This goes for boxing, kickboxing and muay thai as well, getting punched, elbowed, kneed and/ or kicked in the face, low kicks, BJJ guy would lose if you can not grab the striker, since BJJ does not learn striking or how to take a punch/ kick in the body/ face. If you do grab the striker before you get KOd, yes BJJ would win.
Saying Sambo does not work. well look at Khabib Nurmagomedov when he was active in the UFC, not only was he undefeated, he dominated every fight against the best strikers, wrestlers and BJJ guys in the world. So yeah Sambo does work.
In a controlled envirionment like a gym, I agree with you Tyler, BJJ would win in most cases.
Pin is one second in folk style and less than a second in Greco and freestyle
As they say in Dagestan no mini shorts no smesh
Just started coaching no gi judo classes at my gym 🤙. It’s the lazy man’s wrestling
Tyler Strangler
overrated for what?
1v1 fights vs a person who doesn't know anything? No
self defense? Absolutely.
Karate does teach it u just need to find the right one
To be fair, Kickboxing does have some origins in Karate.
Most of it is
I have always said this Bjj and judo shouldn't have never been separated
Its not.
They just copied it and made it worse.
In my opinion.
Yes
Best UA-camr out there ong
Was waiting for boxing hate that didn’t come.
Katas are a bunch of bs and if you are spending money on your kid doing katas stop immediately your kid will not benefit an ounce and will send you to a nursing home as soon as you ask to move in… katas don’t do it
Jiujitsu and bjj is not the same.
All jujutsu are the same only the instructors focuses more in spesific area.
Judo and wrestling and bjj all those
Love the "no more katas" at the end😂
From a guy who does not understand the application of kata...
@@kaboose111 katas are completely useless in practical martial arts, and i had to learn some to get my Judo black belt. If you spend the same time doing randori/sparring or any other form of practical training it will always be better...that said, you can enjoy kata and there's nothing wrong
@@simoneguidani tell me why they are useless then.
@@kaboose111 is kata study diffused in full contact competitive martial art? Does athlets who want to compete in sparring tends to focus on kata?
@@simoneguidani I get the feeling you believe kata is done every class or session. We do kata for like 30 minutes once a week. When you strip the kata down with bunkai, you begin to see its application and how it works either your sparring.
I love how you did your homework on these to show them in action.
Bro is a goated martial artist stg
I fail to see how an art that no striking has is the most effective. If these BJJ people also train striking, then sure, they will be fine. However, if they do not, then they will most likely panic as soon as the first blow lands. Especially if it is a kick.
Also, it seems like you purposefully overlooked some of the hardest styles of Karate. I like the McDojo channel, but it should not be your source for learning about an art. Kyokushin, Seidokaikan, and Ashihara are very intense striking arts. Hell, even without punches to the face in competition, Kyokushin is still highly effective because of the conditioning, train striking, and even have light clinch work. Seido is Kyokushin that is kickboxing. Ashihara is both, but with throws and some groundwork. Kudo is another one you either do not know about or just chose to ignore. It includes combines Karate and Judo and produces very skilled fighters. Kenpo 5.0 is a solid system as well because of how it incorporates ground fighting and clinching.
Andy Hug, a famous Kyokushin and Seidkaikan fighter, was well known for wreaking havoc in the K-1 heavyweight division.
Overall, BJJ is still an exceptionally good thing to learn, but it is not the "be all, end all" style. In the future, when you want to criticize something like karate; you may want to dig deeper into the styles, understand how kata is applied to the fighting, and learn more about the fighters it has produced. Otherwise, you will just sound like a BJJ Brolosopher.
Ameri-do-te is the only real martial art. All other styles are bullshit.
real and true
Most martial arts are underrated. BJJ is overrated in the Jiu-jitsu sphere. Your BJJ is almost useless if you can't take anyone down. If you hip toss or suplex someone on hard ground, that would end the fight for a lot of people. Karatekas throw kicks at all sorts of weird angles, and some without telegraphs. Imagine you go to parry a teep and catch it, but it was a question mark kick, and your hand is at your waist. These arts just have different goals and mindsets. Jiu-jitsu is awesome, but it is not the end-all-be-all. I believe JKD is the best martial art, because it takes whatever is useful. You go to a JKD school, you are training BJJ, along with Muay Thai, and Kali, as well as being taught the fighting ranges(kicking, punching, trapping, grappling) and how to flow between them.