Is Ecological Training For Jiu Jitsu Legit?
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- Опубліковано 7 кві 2024
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As a lowly blue belt who doesn’t know anything, I agree this training is way better than static drilling.
💯💯💯
Intrestingly Nicky Ryan explained some months ago how he got good at BJJ. His answer was phase 1. Drilling 2. if drilled to a point where the movement can be executed tight , fluid and quick then start phase 2. Do positional sparring with light resistance from different positions and try to execute your move each time. If that works go Phase 3. Full Gas sparring trying to hit the move. Phase 4. Film yourself and watch footage after every full gas sparring. Now i have the feeling Nicky Ryan is better at JJ than anyone of us and so while different approaches work.. its pretty ridiculous to say drilling itself isnt good.
Of course Nicky Ryan is better than anyone of us, but that doesn't mean his training method is the most efficient. There are many other factors at play, such as natural talent, level of training partners, and amount of overall mat time. As a hobbyist who only has a few hours a week to train, having a more efficient practice would be highly valuable.
@@rahulbball9395 yeah but dont you think a training method that produced Guys Like b-team and Andre Galvao cant be inefficient ? Basically all sports Not only combat sports have shown that drilling works pretty good.
@@lordad For sure, those guys are amazing. I am not saying they are doing everything wrong. But I don't think their success proves that drilling is useful. The reason is because they do many things other than drilling. They do alot of live rolling and positional sparring work.
What eco guys are hypothesizing is that the live work that these guys have done have contributed to their success, and the drilling portion contributed minimally. As more and more people adopt this approach, it will become apparent whether or not drilling is useful.
@@lordad In fact, I saw in a recent Bteam video that Jrod never drills lol.
@@lordad there are tons of videos with Andre teaching technique in the traditional style. And he drills like crazy.
Yeah, this has been a game changer for me the past 9 months. Black belt and full time coach here. Probably 2/3rds of my class times are now some form of constraints based live training, and the room is getting better, faster, and students are having a lot of fun. I also think it's great for newer grapplers, because instead of having to explain details to them (and trying to pick which ones to give, since they won't remember them all), they get to just experience jiu-jitsu right away. They have fun exploring, and they can just focus on tasks and goals, and they get to play. I still think there's a time and place for more details and technical refinement, but I'm starting to think it's better for more advanced grapplers. I'm starting to think technical details are far less important for just building general competency as a grappler from scratch.
Live training Games and concepts ?
@@markavelisocal yeah, for sure. Having the majority of the class being at least some type of live work, but especially with lots of verbal cues and good direction from the coach.
Nice 👏
We drilled for 45 minutes of an hour class the other day. I’m not against drilling bit I felt like I learned nothing, then rolled, then left.
Way more to work on with this approach
Same. The standard drilling approach is limited.
Gaining new skills will be glacial at that rate
The idea of drilling is not to make the same move 100 times but to become better at a move each time you do it. Try to be tighter , quicker , more fluent. The only reason for drilling is to try to do the same move better than the time before. Now if you allready have a sensational armbar from the guard for example there is 0 point in drilling it. If you learned nothing from 45 minutes drilling you either have perfect technique or dont understand the idea of drilling at all
It to be funny. Are you a good learner? Do you try or did you just undermine the potential of the lesson yourself? There is no teaching modality that a student can’t defeat….
We adopted this at my gym a year ago. Haven't looked back. The results have been amazing across the board.
How do you introduce and refine fundamentals in new grapplers? Where I trained we occasionally did more “positional work” days. Which were great and basically this same concept.
Basically do you still have a “Technique” portion at all? In the very beginning of training. I see where this could be problematic.
@@rondemurphy4401 No technique portion as you would know it. Beginners actually do super well with this method. Give them tasks to focus on, and they start looking like they've grappled a lot longer than they really have. Positional sparring isn't the same as the constraints led approach. They look the same, but CLA has more thought and direction.
I've done both styles.
A
1. Warm up, shrimp, jog around mat, stretch, the usual.
2. Drill move/s against unresisting partner.
3. Live roll.
4. Stretch.
B
1. Games
2. Roll
B is significantly better. Much less time wasted. I am generally absolutely shattered after a session. Everyone is way, way harder to deal with and they improve so much faster.
Well, the big thing is, I teach exactly like that, but I also do a little bit more. I have them stop in certain places, and then pay attention to what they’re doing and where they’re at and maybe seeing how they could move one thing away to create something else, that’s the things you need to do I think
Yes I agree teaching them TO teach themselves how to fish is very effective. I don't know why there is a weird knee jerk response to learning this way?
High probability of teaching wrong?
@@Thecelestial1 We if the coach knows the limits and has rules probably not.
No one wants to train gi in my gym. People come for kickboxing/no gi. On gi nights, its usially 2 white belts, me (blue), and a brown belt who goes 100 and destroys me evey time. This seems like a way better way to get good work with mt limited group.
I think so too!
@@TylerSpangler the gods heard me! Tonight it was me 2 purple belts, the brown smasher, and 2 black belts. We didn't do the game drill like your vid, just live rolls. Itvwas great though, I got that natutlral after class high going, yeew!
My gym has been using a hybrid method.
We drill in order to learn some basic technique. Then we spend ~10 min with "constrained" live training similar to what's described in the video to reinforce that technique as well as explore alternative strategies to the "move of the day". Then for the last 10-15 minutes we do live training.
I’ve always thought there should be a five minute technique repeat at the end of class. The retention even after 30 minutes can be “unflattering”.
Your protocol sounds pretty solid all around. I just can’t imagine “most students” new ones in particular. Building themselves up to black belt level detail without some technique portion in class. The fail rate is pretty high with it.
The downside for me it's that it still doesn't make gi not boring
I’ve been training since 1995. I’ve been teaching as my sole profession since 2003. I have been taught with and used the standard / traditional teaching methods. Three and a bit years ago I started to study and implement Ecological Dynamics and Constraints Lead Approach. Glad I made the shift, informed use of this approach has the ability to answer every issue we experience in Jiu Jitsu as students and coaches.
Wouldn’t return to traditional approach / cult behaviour if you gave me a million bucks.
It looks like positional sparing with varying levels of resistance. Am I wrong? Can you elaborate? Truly interested
Where’s your gym?
@@markavelisocal youre not quite correct but check out Greg Souders. Any podcast hes on will do a better job explaining the method than we can through comments.
@@kylep.4503 specific one you recommend?
@markavelisocal it's precisely what it is lol. People like to* make things complicated and sound "cool and new"
Its positional sparring. Period. 😂
I wish more gym use this method. I am at Easton BJJ in Denver (they have 9 gyms in Colorado) and they still use old school drilling method. Any Denver area gyms uses this method?
Looking very cool 😎
Reminds me alot of high school wrestling practice, similar to situational live gos where you are limited in your moves, for the bottom and top guy.
That’s what Tyler said. Dope . Wrestlers are gangsters
I learned how to guard pass just fkn around with ppl’s legs and moving my body
That whole “put ur fist here”, “shift ur bodyweight here”, “drive through ur legs” bs aint help me at all 😂
Being originally from the bodybuilding community- reminds me of the whole high volume vs mike mentzer low volume approach
Our gym does a blended approach, most classes are drilling, once you get that down you move to this style of class.
My gym started doing this over a year ago, i didnt drill for over a year, went from newly promoted blue belt that was going toe to toe with seasoned blue belts at competition , to being promoted to purple belt in under a year.
This works but thinking of games and tasks is hardest part, since coach has to design them and not rely on good ol drill this 10 times! c:
Hell yeah becoming main stream
Depends on what we mean when we say “Drilling”. Static choreography for “gross motor skill development”…or “Drilling” as in ,active drilling/specific training.
I’d say most high level rooms do a combo but most of them are more heavy on active drilling/Specific sparring and rounds. This approach is not new in that sense. What is new is the pairing of psychological theory such as “Direct perception as it pertains to behavior” and teaching modalities in Bjj. Definitely a fascinating development and wagering if instructors new to the approach can effectively convey the ideas it could be positive for the evolution of BJJ/Grappling.
My gym has been doing full ecological style teaching for the last year. We've seen our white belts absolutely explode in skill compared to before. One of the biggest things this method teaches is problem solving. You actually have to think about and try things on your own instead of just pulling out the memorized technique you have for that position.
Why use “ecological” for this type of training?
most important thing is it looks more fun!
We do both, i.e., drill the move for 20 then games/ situational sparring for the rest. Though, some of the games shown here are different, like the off balancing and not submitting. I think a helpful video would be to show and explain some of these games.
Good stuff
Play is the optimal state of learning. And this type of playing to execute moves is what makes learning so much efficient.
10th planet type training
Ecological is the way to go. My gym, PrimalMKE, in Milwaukee is one of the leaders with this coaching/learning method and incorporates it into MMA and striking classes as well. We train BJJ with constraints, and live play just like you showed in your video. Same with wrestling. Our white belts have had zero issue picking up BJJ and we are trained into the important aspects of grappling like control, grips, destabilizing, etc by playing these live games instead.
I think it gets even more interesting in our striking/mma classes. Our training involves zero pad holding, all live sparring, little to no technique demonstration. Instead we focus on understanding distance management, and reading our opponents movements and learning the chaotic "dance" with constraints. Even if you've never thrown a single punch in your life before, we put you right into sparring. We keep our new and junior members safe by deploying a strict no head contact/low power controlled sparring environment. The goal is to aim for the shoulders, and torso, and making sure everyone is encouraged to not focus on winning, but rather, achieving the objective of their constraint or play. Once youre more experienced, you can move to light head contact sparring (we really avoid hard sparring unless you have an upcoming fight, as its less effective for learning, and more likely detrimental for skill acquisition.)
And the proof is in the pudding. Our members dominate BJJ competitors, and our fighters are winning their MMA bouts. Penn State Wrestling is also using ecological style, and ill let their accomplishments speak for themeselves.
Our non competitive members are having more fun not sitting around wasting time drilling moves. We turn the music up and get to work. I got my blue belt at a traditional school, and wish I had started in this style of learning considering how much more I have learned in a shorter period of time.
Sounds like nonsense and a fad that will pass
HOW DO I LEARN THIS
Can I get a TLDR?
@@aPerfectcircle23 it def isnt. I guarantee that if you trained at an eco gym for a month youd wonder how anybody else even gets good training the traditional way.
@@kylep.4503 how can i learn ecologically
7:30 best reason not to skip leg day! 🙌
🔥 as usual
Hayden is the man! A wonderful proponent and ambassador for ecologically sound training. Great video!
Ecological? WTF?
This looks like positional sparring....why can't drilling and positional sparring both be incorporated in your training? One does not preclude the other. At our gym we do both.
Usually folks will say its not and try to make the argument of why its not. If we're not speaking to the science, we can say "yeah it is positional sparring AND it gives a more focused approach by allowing the folks playing the games to work within constraints to build specific skills". The sports science side of ecological dynamics from what I understand says that the ideas of traditionally approaching learning (i show you X move, you do it 1000x statically) is counterproductive to ecological dynamics because skills in BJJ are actually acquired through live training.
@@unfortuanately I don't disagree with you on the live part, but when learning a new move you are still unfamiliar with, you do need to drill against an unresisting opponent at first. In our regular classes, we usually drill a couple of moves with a compliant partner, then move to positional sparring and finally to normal sparring at the end.
Interesting way of training. I'd like to try out these types of games from time to time in class. A lot of the time at open mats, I'll grab a partner and we'll roll with weird stipulations kinda like this.
What Im wondering is if you say on day one just get on top or destabilise them how does that work if the person knows nothing and perhaps can't move much at all?
3:49 Nice technique list!
We’ve been doing this in wrestling for decades
I'm only a blue belt in BJJ but I've been teaching judo a while. These ideas had appeared over there as well. I had found this training style solves a lot of the issues with traditional training but we haver to be aware it creates some new ones too. What i had found was that concepts/games > techniques/drilling for overall comprehension and rate of return. What i had found was games will build skill faster but its often rough, drill polishes and states out loud what was then learned, return to games to build again. As in 2-3 games classes a drill class ratio or something like that led to best results. Overall if you understand then drilling doesn't help much it just solidifies what is already known. Don't spend time doing things that aren't sport specific training, don't spend time doing unrealistic motions, ect.
Just out of curiosity, do you guys still do uchi komi ? (Which is basically drills) If not, how do you replace that?
@@gladiumcaeli Uchi-komi is part of that required traditional training in my opinion. When I look at this method its based on the idea that you can come to certain motions naturally and safely. This isn't true of judo. Throws where you turn away aren't natural and lack of ability to safely land for judo. But once you start understanding basic static uchi-komi is inferior to moving, which is inferior, to move and throw for throw drills, ect. These become easier on sprung floors and better facilities. ect Gripping is best taught through positional gripping games. There are tons of examples of how this concept can be applied in my opinion.
As a beginner, though with a background in stand-up, I can tell you 100% this is the FASTED way to learn!! I have learned more in two months of this method than most in months and months of reg training. Not even close.
this cannot be proved.
@@mygi43543 Yes, it can and has. The ecological approach to learning, emphasizing real-world contexts and interactions, enhances understanding and retention compared to traditional memorization methods in studies. This approach has been found to foster deeper understanding and long-term retention, showing it can be more effective in certain contexts, like physical sports. I.e. Jiujitsu
@@mygi43543it is proven in case studies . Look online .
@@mygi43543 go to an eco gym. Getting worked by everybody in the room should be an eye opener for you.
you can’t learn too many things at once. Deciding what you want to work on and limiting the variables allows you to get a full understanding of positions and how they integrate with other moves and the full game as you gradually progress the intensity. Life if a video game level up accordingly 🎉 Structured sparring allows you to get reps in actually performing and learning the offensive and defensive possibilities and what the transitions feel and look like. as with the coaches example with the knee bar, you get lots of reps controlling in the position which makes it easier to submit a fully resisting opponent in live rounds, great video, explanations and examples
I love the idea of of this style of training as a great part of a program. Where do you fit in teaching new techniques to new students? Most people suck at high level application after spending 30 minutes on it with expert guidance. Expecting people to just teach themselves seems like it would give worse results.
It occurs to me that recalibrating the technique and drilling portions to be shorter. While increasing this “positional drilling” would be better. Particularly in the first year or two.
It also seems like a given student’s growth would be more dependent on their existing aptitude and study capacity. Wouldn’t it be wise to spend some time learning the instructors level of detail? Then growing it through this style of repetition?
How can I learn more about the back escape at 6:10?
Could someone explain to me how these games would work for more advance people ? like what would be the rules and the goals ?
One game:
Start in back control, on offense you must submit and you have to keep their elbow separated from their rib. If they bring their elbows back, they win. This will help you work on controlling inside space while also hunting the submission. Usually on the back people are too ham for the submission, then lose it all together.
One game that I like that works better for more advanced players is to start with a locked triangle, but you can't finish the triangle that you started with. So if you start with a regular triangle, you'd have to rotate around your partner's neck and shoulder and tap them with an opposite lock triangle or a back triangle. You can do the same thing with front headlock subs. Start with a guillotine, darce, anaconda, or some kind of necktie...and you have to finish with a choke, but not the choke you started from. You could start with cross body leg entanglement, but force the attacker to finish an outside heel hook or ankle lock instead of an inside heel hook, etc.
@ 3:50 Complete list of BJJ techniques...all guillotine variants! I love it. 😄
You need both.
This is actually just a limited sparring. Where you are in the more dominant position where you have to controll and submit ? So instead of full motion drilling where you train your body to remember the technique you have now to work for it? Drilling is boring i get it . But after the drilling you do some light sparring anyway where both partners are trying to use a specific technique anyway? I don't know seems like you learn less . Cause if i and my partner have been through with drilling ( fuck why does bjj always sound so gay) we both try to scramble for that submission. So you would learn also the patterns and coming from different directions. Aargh why dies bjj sound so gay i stopp it here and eat a steak or something.
It's situational drilling and has been done since before any of you put on a gi. It's reinventing the wheel and giving it a different name
Why are you so butthurt about it?
@@shawnfritz6259 how does pointing out the obvious make me the butthurt one?
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Glad you are getting the money, but are there other sponsors you can go for?
Very interesting. How to find a gym that excels at this teaching will be tough!
Most instructors that have adopted this are barely getting their blue belts in this. It’s going to be a while but the ceiling is massive .
it's going to probably take a while. A few folks that are long time coaches or black belts are adopting more of this style coaching, but a lot of the folks embracing this are newer in the sport. I definitely am seeing more blue/purple belts curious about this. A lot of black belts are not big on changing up what they're doing. As a coach I've has kind of an existential crisis over it. But I think in 5-10 years you're going to see a lot more schools using this method, or at least incorporating a lot more things from it.
@@DrewDarceI am a brown Belt, and I should not be. I would really like to deserve what I have. I wonder if there is a curriculum that I can attend to self-educate.
@@DrewDarce Where Is it you train? I am in North Virginia.
So the advanced class of this type of training, would be just sparring session?
Just more advanced games versus things like holding mount in beginners class
"Three hours later I was able to escape" LOL! I don't think this is a new style of training. i think this is how training was originally.
Drilling is essential because how can you escape bad positions if you don't drill it.
Same way I did from the knee bar!
That's the point of the games - be put into various positions without threats of submissions in order to work out escapes at a conceptual level
I
Think it kills creativity. Honestly when is the last time you did a submission or escape that went exactly like the drill?
Learning what body positions make moves and how to recognize them is waaaaaay more beneficial than mindless drilling.
You can still escape bad positions without drilling. You can start in the bad position, and the player in the good position can have certain constraints put on them. So for example, if you can't escape the full mount, then the top player could be constrained to not be able to sub you. If you still couldn't escape, they could be constrained to not being able to get double underhooks on you. If you still couldn't escape, they could be constrained to not be able to head-pin you, or bot being able to get a single underhook on you. A common misunderstanding of this approach is that you're just expected to fend for yourself with no direction. A good coach should also be able to give you different things to focus or your attention and intention on. They should be able to give you specific tasks you need to accomplish, and they'll give you cues to look for. As a coach it actually takes a ton more effort IMO than just giving out a lot of technical details. Coaching more this way has pushed me way more than any other method. EDIT: BTW I don't think drilling is entirely pointless, and I personally love drilling...but I think its utility is limited, especially for newer grapplers.
Ive been fully converted a few months backs, and been teaching through it already, and is great, believe static drilling isnt completly dead, and here’s the catch, for higher belts! Echological is simply superior method of training all together, but even more for lower belts, but once you know how to grapple drilling and learning moves is say easier and you have the experience tô adapt which helps when treino to learn new positions.
My 72 years Old Red belt wouldnt agree though
I would like to try do this but this looks like a gym that charges $200 a month, so ill stick to my cheap cheap gym where drilling still works (but probably isn't ideal)
This is how I turned my kids into champions. After the frustration of watching them wasting 3/4 of a 1hr session in a club that looked like it's designed to slow the progression while milking the wallet😭
Can you share more? My kid is training but I see this in his class, he is 5 tho. I’m a black belt but I don’t teach and my son doesn’t listen to me so I have him at an academy
Love to hear it .
Ecological is good. We’ve been doing that at our gym. But also doing the curriculum here and there
Drop the word “ecological” then it would sound better
Man I love this. I despise drilling. I get so bored. I learn by doing! We all can watch YT to get the fine details from world experts, and you of course [duck noise]. When I go to the gym I want to TRAIN! And I hate running around in a circle. Makes it feel like 5th grade gym class.
Drilling is kata
Love this philosophy!
ECO BABY!!
“Technical” would be a better word
Drilling and games both good imo
Now let's get Jordan out there to try it out for another opinion
No resistance drilling makes you worse. We haven't drilled in the old school sense for 5 years. We are killing the competition and we have the biggest practices we have ever had.
No resistance drilling is drilling compliance .
Nice Vid👍 I'd like to see you try Catch Wrestling, or roll with a Catch Wrestler
All the catch fanboys coming out the woodwork. Dont ever see em anywhere training lol
@@michaelswann9849 I ain't being toxic or saying bjj would lose, I just think it would be a nice video👍
@@michaelswann9849someones panties got twisted once cathwrestling got mentioned 😂
Call bullshit in first guy.
Lookin thiccc. Thanks xmartial!
Imo beginners will definitely benefit from old school drilling but If your a year or two into your purple ( or high competition level )and above you don’t need to drill much just see the move with details then use it in rolls a bunch. This is because you’ve been in all the positions and used fulcrums+ sweep mechanics so many times by purple nothing feels awkward
Beginners benefit more from this approach .the training looks much different than this though .
I am a beginner and I will say this. The ecological approach helps me understand the movement and what I am exactly doing but at the same I am also trying to get drilling down as well so that I can get my movements to be smoother.
Name a sport that doesn't involve functional reps. Weak.
This does not make any sense to me as a beginner
Basically goal specific training / positional training. Example one starts in full mount and must submit the bottom guy, the bottom guy must escape or recover guard
we did this for a long time without calling it ecological
Thanks for saying this. Feel like more woke terminology incoming
The only thing I think eco might not do effectively is teach safety in high speed situations. Granted it's very hard to teach anyways, but things like falling properly every which way are best done as drills in my opinion and as reactions to throws or takedowns against a thicker mat if needed. There's some wisdom in drilling some things repetitively the way Judoka drill entries into a throw, which could just be a few steps, but seeing as they're SO FUNDAMENTAL to throwing your opponent you really just need to do it a lot. In jiujitsu I feel like drilling is so different and far removed from the fundamental moves it can become pointless and eco fits it better in many situations because of that. It would be interesting to see GI gyms do this and how they feel it's working out for them since most I've seen do it are nogi focused places.
Drilling doesn’t teach safety, it teaches compliance .
We just tell people to put submissions on slow. Tournament pressure, not tournament pace .
You don’t learn to fall by faking falling and compliance falling . I did drill takedowns for years and didn’t get comfortable with standing until I did live rounds with context . Also did quite a bit of judo . Same goes for the throws . An ecological approach to judo is being done. Check out cal jones.
@@morganfrazer158 what I’m getting at is that it’s easier to learn how it’s supposed to feel initially by drilling. After the initial hurdle of getting a person to accept that they can fall controllably (a lot of people are terrified of this btw) it’s easier and more efficient to spend time with resistance and contextual sparring.
The judoka part is just one of those things where I’ll have to disagree with you. For a lot of people the repetition helps a ton, and folds in with warming up nicely. I’m not saying you drilled wrong, just saying that different things work for different people.
I mostly agree with you, live rounds with context is obviously better training long term for anyone.
@@styrofoamsoldier that’s just your opinion. I don’t think there’s as much learning going on as you think there is going on. Everything learned out of context must be re learning in context. Why not skip that step ?
@@morganfrazer158 it is my opinion. Never claimed to have data to back it up. But aren’t we talking about opinions anyways? I’ve rolled with eco guys and the results don’t exactly speak for themselves, meaning they aren’t unusual in any way. I learn new things through drilling and repetition and refine it through resistance training.
Fwiw I think most of the important eco concepts have been in use in most places where I’m from for a very long time but drills still happen.
Oss
OSS mate
I think at the beginner level, there's definite benefit to static drills. For example, today's move of the day involved inversions. Me and my partner both sucked at the inversion, so the coach had us just work on inverted rolls instead of drilling the technique. There's no way I could see us going inverted in an ecological game, unless maybe we started there.
Lately our classes have been an ecological game as a warmup, then drill technique, then rolls that progress from positional (pass/sweep) to live roll from position to live roll from the feet. I think it's a good balance of things.
And usually once a week we do the traditional warmups. I find that useful at once a week. I don't enjoy it more than that.
You should try this instead . .
Yeah drilling sucks mostly. Maybe there is a time and place for complete beginners seeing something for the first time
as a white belt, this makes total sense to me. every drill has like 52 steps to it and good luck to me memorizing them in action haha
success of ecological drilling : 1 adcc qualifying
success of positionnal sparring and drilling :99 per cent of champion
We only do ecological it’s way better.
*Technical
And the big thing is you need to drill a little bit because if you don’t drill that’s like OK I’m gonna work on my takedowns and you only work on it when you’re doing it but you’re not getting taught anything you have to drill it over and over it’s not someone that does something one time it’s the guy that does it 100,000 timeshe becomes a master you’re losing it buddy I love you but that’s not all that you need to. Do you need to do everything in classes need to be longer than an hour.
A fucking betting sponsorship?? Really?....
I still think drilling has a place, but last class I felt was absolutely a waste of time drilling something I knew wouldn't work against a live partner (at least not in the way we were drilling).
My gym is old school I doubt we'll be using this anytime soon, but I think I'm going to start incorporating some resistance in my drilling from now on. Unless you're trying to work on strictly muscle memory or some detail you need to slow down to see, 0 resistance drilling feels like a waste of time.
Ive been training this way for over a year now. Its like training in a hyperbaric time chamber. 6 months of eco training is worth 2 years of traditional training.
Ive seen white belts go from nothing to smashing traditional purple belts in a year.
I agree, and also have seen this.
I hate drilling. Everything ive ever learned was from a live roll. Drilling is the same as watching another youtube video.
Ive been training like this for the last 5 yrs and i think its great, unfortunately when i voice this i get shot down.
Some people in this life ,the night before an exam they can go to a party ,get drunk ,get 3 hours sleep then go do the exam an pass with no problem.For me I need to cram .Moral of the story ,whatever works for you bro go for it .Drilling ,no drilling ,games thats really drilling but your not allowed to call it drilling .
Lol it is still a drill by another name. Or game..smh.lol
It’s all no gi shit to me
Nooo stop making jiujitsu fun and accessible!
If we don't gate keep it then people will stop calling me sensei and doing me favors
I think this method is a joke. Everyone doing it already has learned and drilled techniques. Its good for people that already know jiu jitsu and just want to roll...thats about it. its such a lazy way to coach. Instead of telling people what the best movements are, which are known, y ou have to figure it out for yourself lol.
I dont think I get it. So one person is drilling a technique and other is just freestyle defending? Like positional sparring?
No you dont get it. Both players are looking for a specific outcome.
Easy example for new players. Top player starts in mount with one underhook, their goal is to put the bottom players elbow to their head. If they do that they win. The bottom players goal is to free their arm and get both hands to the top players hips. If they do that they win. If the bottom player somehow gets on top they win. If the top player somehow ends up chest to back, they win.
Both players have a task. Both or one of the players may be constrained on what they can and cant do. Constraining the players and giving specific win/loss conditions makes sure the game doesnt spin off out of the intended scenario into free sparring.
@@kylep.4503 Ok I understand. Thanks Kyle. Well explained. So you are learning concepts rather than just “moves”.
@@vanyakapetanovic4018 Im hesitant to even agree that concepts are what are being learned because that implies that they are learning in the traditional sense (information processing via the brain).
The way I think about it is skill development in achieving desired outcomes based off of the invariant properties of any given scenario and their current situation.
So to bring it back to the mount example: the top player is developing the skill of using extension of the arm and hip/shoulder control to maintain a pin. Immobilizing hips/shoulders are an invariant (something that never changes) property of a pin but the skill needed to maintain those conditions on another player require skills developed through live training and with different partners because although what is needed to maintain a pin is always the same, the reactions and body of the other player and the conditions (sweaty etc) will always be different.
I hope that helps. Im still a laymen in this topic but Ive been training under this method for over a year and what I can tell you for sure is that it blows the traditional coaching method out of the water.
@@vanyakapetanovic4018 Yeah, it's definitely concept based. The coaches are having to understand the concepts that make grappling truly work, and designing games to get you to build that skillset--without explicitly explaining to you specific techniques. The idea is that you will naturally perceive things and learn based on your environment. A good coach using this method should be able to get you to develop techniques and movements on your own, based on specific tasks and goals that you and your training partner will have in different positions and situations. It's like instead of having things taught to you, you're having the environment laid out for you to learn it on your own.
@@kylep.4503 Thank you so much. You are very well spoken and I think I learned a lot from just reading this. I had a really dull drilling session yesterday where we drilled 2 or 3 techniques over and over for over an hour. So I so wish I can go to a school that teaches these specific skills through games. I love in Hollywood, LA so I love my school but I dont even know which schools in LA would be doing this. Maybe 10th Planet as they are little bit out of the box already. Anyway, love your videos man and yoir explanations are top notch. Thank your for everything you do.