Adding that the M11 Magenta shift is happening in Capture One as well. I lock my M11 WB at 5500K and the WB values in CP1 default to 5361K and Tint .5 shift. The numerical values for WB in LR & CP1 are wildly different, but the actual magenta shift is definitely present in CP1. I didn't want to believe it, but comparing the same image in both applications proves the magenta shift is there in both programs. Thankfully this is such an easy adjustment, and while a little disappointing the colors aren't perfect, it's not a hard fix.
Yes, it's the camera and not the software. It was a decision by Leica. To everyone: this is not right or wrong, it's just a thing. You can choose to correct that thing or let it run, your call. But it's just a thing.
Leica is a camera for pretentious collectors not true photographers at this point any semi pro camera from the last 12 years is capable of pulitzer winning photographs it's the artistic eye not some brand!
I started with the M11, but mine had freeze-up problems. After trying dozens of home remedies recommended by the Leica dealer and various forums, I returned it and got the M11-P. I am hugging my M11-P as we speak. Not only has it been trouble free, but the script on top brings me great joy. A silly thing to obsess about, perhaps, but I love it.
I’ll keep saying this over and over. I’ve had M9, M240, M10, M10P, M10R, M11, M11P and I can confidently say that the M10R is peak performance. Just because it’s newer doesn’t mean it’s better. I still look at my M9 photos and they are amazing, flawless…. I sold the M11s and I’m using the M10R as my go to for everything.
Before you do anything else…Use the profile “PROFILE M11” instead of “Adobe Color” in Lightroom. That’s 80% of the problem. Even shooting at an in-camera 5500K permanently will still be interpreted through Lightroom and Capture One differently. Something doesn’t connect in the EXIF data from the DNG files…apparently Hasselblad isn’t having the same problem: the files always come in at 5500K.
Been wondering about profiles, Is there an alternative for us shooting with the SL2 or any other Leicas that only give you the Adobe option. (Haven't seen much of the video yet if It is mentioned)
@@davidherring there is, I used it in my M11 review and found the difference not as noticeable as with the M10, but still the best way to see the M11's colors. The SL2 also had a crazy color shift...anywho I posted a video on how to get the built in profiles on my channel if you need help finding it!
I might be wrong, but I think you can set iso to M and then use the thumb wheel to adjust iso. Either by pushing it to switch between operations or something.
Hi Dave, Just curious, what lens did you use for this test? I don’t notice any magenta shift on my friend’s M11 and I’m wondering if it is a lens difference or if there is sample variation in the bodies…
I don't get the issues you are having. When I set my M11 to Auto ISO I get a Tint value of 12-14, and no magenta shift. You never have to transfer the data to the SD card. Just load either the internal or the SD card data straight into LightRoom (or other) with the USB-C connection. Both the internal memory and the SD-Card will show up as drives on your computer. This will also recharge the battery. Never open the battery/SD Card door again. Easy, fast,simple and less wear and tear on parts. I think the ISO dial on the left is really only there for looks, just set it to M. Set your rear control wheel press function to ISO-M. Then you can instantly set the ISO to AUTO or any ISO value the camera is capable of from 64 to 50K in 1/3 stop increments. More powerful, more simple, and faster. All of your issues with the M11 can easily be handled by understanding the elegant design of the M11 range of cameras better. If you are manually setting your aperture and shutter speed (which you should be doing on an M) and your ISO is set to Auto, then you Exposure compensation dial is actually an ISO Dial because ISO is the only attribute the camera can change for exposure compensation. The exposure meter in the M11 cameras is very accurate because it is now reading off the sensor directly. The Exposure Compensation dial gives you 6 stops of adjustment from the calculated value. ISO almost never needs to be adjusted outside of this range. So even if you just want to set the left ISO dial to Auto and use the wheel click function for something else like White Balance, you have all the control of ISO you will ever likely need.
I believe some cameras are not affected. I certainly get the magenta shift with AWB. Its not consistent, but as Dave has demonstrated its very strong in blue sky type situations
Hey, Dave! I had the exact same problem with magenta tint on my M11-P and it was driving me nuts. When I ran out of patience, I contacted the Leica customer service center and arranged to send the camera in for service. The service center recalibrated the sensor (or something like this) and the "magenta tint" problem was solved. For myself I can recommend it, it is definitely worth it!
I had the M11 and had problems. No locking up luckily but the resolution is too high for a camera without Ibis and the sensor always seemed to be covered in dust. Didn't like the lack of bottom plate either. I now have the M10 and love it (even though I can't use my expensive Sony SD cards with it for some random reason)
I have a friend who owns an M11 Monochrom. It's really funny that he brings a dust blower and a brush with him everytime he brings his beloved camera. 😂
My Q3 has a magenta shift of 23 points of all images that come out of the camera. It's the first post processing I do. I was in Italy and Greece and Turkey this summer and I thought everyone had a bad sunburn, but when I came home and processed, they just had very nice tans. That wheat in your picture looked pink.
I have an M10 for which I sold my M262 (which I regret), and it's a small thing, but my ISO dial is also hard to maneuver. Now I just set it to M and adjust in the menu. It just seems like waste of space on a camera that is so meticulously designed.
The only way I found to pop up the ISO dial without pulling a fingernail off is to use my pointer finger and thumb (with a pinching gesture) at the same time.
Have the M9, M240, M10 and M11 cameras, and agree about the magenta shift (M240 had it also). I've had luck using a Hoya UV-IR cut filter to reduce the magenta shift when using M11, to give me more natural colors. The M11 is supposed to be using a new thinner type of IR cover glass on sensor, and similar to M8 (though not nearly as bad): I think the M11 is letting slight IR leakage slant the color spectrum. This would also explain why using a Hoya UV-IR cut filter, the colors begin to improve, become more neutral.
@@davidherring Which UV-IR cut filter (brand) did you use? Different brands have different IR wavelength cut-off bands, some like the Leica and B+W made ones are aggressive and cut at 640 nanometers. Hoya cut's at 700 nanometer. Other off-brand types can cut as high as 760-780 nanometers. In order to truncate the IR leakage on the M8, M240 and M11, I've found 700nm or stronger works best.
I been using the M11 since the beginning of the year and had no issues with it. The few hiccups it had were fixed with the latest firmware, perhaps I been lucky.
Thank you Dave for this video. I own the M11P and more than satisfied. The magenta shift is present but different from a lens to another. Modified this is simple for me. No pain.
Can you just not change the default import magenta value? You can do that in Lightroom. IMO, it's not the camera, it's how software thinks the default RAW values are. The same thing happens to my Nikon and Fujifilm cameras. Even cameras from the same brand will have different WB and Tint values even if you shot them at the same Kelvin value. The software just "interprets" the RAW file to what it thinks the default values should be. As you have already done, you can create a dedicated preset and use that for RAW defaults. Personally, I make a preset for each camera to match the cameras in terms of WB/Tint as much as possible as I shoot multiple cameras in weddings. I also include in the presets ISO-adaptive Noise Reduction and Sharpening already so those settings are already near optimal for whatever ISO the raw file was shot in. These get applied to each camera as their default RAW values upon import. No need to select the presets before or after importing.
You can def change the value once it’s on your computer, but that doesn’t change the fact that the sensor color science is magenta shifted. It’s in both LR and C1. It’s on JPGs and RAW. It’s at any temp.
Hey Dave, I am wondering if this is rather a problem of Lightroom than the camera itself? Using C1 by myself, I never really encountered such a color shift…
When I had the camera I figured out that just charging the kelvin to 6k would get rid of the magenta shift and have it look very neutral and since the files were pretty amazing dynamic range wise it was fairly easy to get the colors I wanted
Thanks for your thoughts on the M11 and the variants. I either set my M10-R K to 5400 or go with daylight for outdoors and indoors set it to tungsten. This way it’s more like shooting film. Also, color is more consistent from frame to frame, as opposed to AWB. Also, I invested in a color checker passport a time saver as well. Internal storage is a plus for now I am sticking with my M10’s and SD cards. I have noticed a magenta cast in M files since the M8/M240. As you suggested making a preset in C1/LR is the best work around or use a color checker/grey card. Thank you again, Dave. Happy snappin’!
I have the M11-P silver version. Love the camera, though have had a couple of fail to power up issues since I purchased the camera in September this year. It seems related to the battery. After I insert the battery in the accessory charger for a few minutes, reinsert into the camera, it powers up. The user manual suggests this a remedy. I have noticed the colour science seems slightly different between DNG-L, DNG-M and DNG-S.
That is def a magenta shift. I could see it before you showed the side by side. But then once you showed the side by side edited unedited pics it was obvious. I guess it’s not a huge deal because it’s pretty easy to correct.
Sticking with the M10, which I bought in 2018. Had the M240, M9P and M8.2 before that. I was going to move up to M11 in 2022, but instead spent my money on the APO-Summicron 90mm. Since the M10 is still holding up well, I think I'd rather spend any available funds on Leica lenses for now. Maybe will wait for the M12.
That’s interesting because my M-P 240 has a -17 Tint on its RAWs which I usually drag back to a -7 or -6 (I like a bit of green undertone). I guess you could always take a minute during lunch to transfer from your internal memory to an SD. Not ideal, but…
Dave, thanks for the video. I'm also sticking with my M11 and not trading it in for one with more internal storage. I'm no longer a working photographer and don't worry so much about storage. As for the magenta shift, yes, it has bothered me at lot at times, but I've made the kinds of adjustments you recommend, i.e,, daylight WB and watching for that tint shift. (I use the M11 camera profile in LR as well.) Also like you I'm looking forward to what Leica has in mind for the M12 and don't want an EVF.
Had an M11 but "traded down" to an M10R and think the colors SOOC are more pleasing and filmic to me. I always felt M11 colors seemed too clinical although that could just be me though.
Hello David, it's true that this is the first thing I noticed when switching from the Fuji GFX 100 s to the M11, the magenta shift. And I ask myself the same question as you, shouldn't I have taken the M11 monochrom because since I installed the "high contrast" BW, I now very rarely photograph in color (M11 monochrom is in my mind...). Thanks again for your video and have a good weekend.
Regarding internal storage: How about shooting until the 64gb are almost full, move it to a 256Gb SD Card, format the internal storage and continue shooting with internal storage? So using the SD card just as an internal backup until next import in to LR.
I own an M11 since January 2024 and I have never had any issues with a magenta shift. Not with the DNG files, not with the JPG files, leaving the white balance in AWB mode (no filters used) except when using flashes. I even did check some pics on purpose after watching your video, the result: There is no magenta shift, not with my M11, both for the Leica lenses and Voigtländer lenses. "Only" 64GB internal memory: I am always using 256 GB UHS II cards. The internal memory for me is only my backup scenario if I would forget to put in an SD card once in an while . . . File Size: I shoot at 36 MP in most of the cases, as this is optimizing file size, dynamic range and noise. Oh, by the way: I had another M11 for testing before buying mine and I did also check theses pictures and there is also no magenta shift and the tint is 19 when importing the DNG files, same as with my M11.
I have seen this also on my SL3 the magenta shift. always shoot daylight but the shift was still there on the M11 & SL3. Have done exactly like you suggested made a preset. Funny I haven't ever checked the Colorchecker profiles I have done for these cameras to see it is still exists. A greater look required
M11 in silver. My M9, M240 and M10 Mono were all black. I needed a change and the silver + red logo gave me the retro look I now hugely prefer. Many of my M lenses are also silver. Also, I have seen the best RF coupling in the M11, compared to my other M cameras, going back to the M9 in 2009. Even Voigtlander and Zeiss lenses couple with the RF more accurately. Lastly, the sensor cover glass plate is much thinner in the M11 (0.85mm), which improves acute ray angles and gets M lenses performing better on the M11 compared to M10 or earlier generations. As for the magenta shift, the Fuji GFX 100 II also has this. It takes a downshift of the magenta + a little reduction in the overall color temperature to very nearly match the Hasselblad X2D 100C, and conversely, the X2D 100C needs a little boost of magenta to get the blue tones right. Where the two adjustments meet, you get very nearly identical tonality.
@ Ive compared with my sl2, sl3 and even an sl2-s from a leica employee. The first two look the same and my S and the leica rep’s S looks the same (more magenta)
Per a comment earlier I was surprised to see the dramatic magenta shift and looked at my images in LRC and didn't see anything near as pronounced. I use Auto WB and the M11 profile in LRC. Most were within +/- 10 and only a couple with harsh indoor halogen that got up to 20. I'll try the full time 5500 and see what the raw files show but it's not been an issue for me. Fully agree that the 256GB in the M11-P is far less stressful and the all black with script on top is very nice. I love the red dot but this camera is just beautiful as is. Thanks for the video.
UA-cam is international. For non Americans, where are the ‘Northern Plains’? Idaho, Montana, Nebraska? I had an M240 and found the DNG overly warm, almost orange. It was a devil to correct, so I sold it. I now have a Hasselblad X1D2. The colours are sensational, but you can’t use Capture One, which pains me. I’ll probably buy a used M10 next. I’d obviously get the M10R if that was in my budget.
I own the M10R BP and I am super happy with it. Nothing which is available right now or on the horizon would make me sell it and by a newer M. That is only because I am so happy with mine and not because the M11 Series is not great. Happy Holidays !
As it happens, my M10-R is broken and I'm trying to decide whether to replace it with an M11-P. Having used both M10-R and M11, do you think the image quality is meaningfully better?
Don't get me wrong, I loved the images from the M10R. That said, everything about the M11 is superior, with the best being the battery life and USB-C charging. M11-P is what I'd recommend.
What a great subject for a photo series. Working as a gaffer for many years I learnt that "daylight" colour temperature varies wildly depending on time of day and weather. I'm too lazy to use custom white balance so I end up using auto unless something looks weird in the viewfinder. 😅
Thanks! Yeah, I use custom 5200K for nearly all my outdoor work, but Daylight in LR at 5500K & +10 tint does well on the M11 to reduce the magenta shift.
Why did you not have the M10 repaired?I want to trade my Q2Reporter for an M10P to match my M10M.I need color on occassion but can’t get the feel of the Q in comparison.Maybe an 11 sometime.
My M10R had a dead communication chip on the circuit board. Needed to replace the entire board with several months downtime. I am a working photographer so I bought an M11 and had it sent out, and then decided to keep the M11 months later and sold the M10R.
I once tried a Leica rangefinder camera for some time, I never liked to use it ! I like WYSIWYG, so I stayed with SLR Cameras, later DSLR Cameras and now mirrorless Cameras, for morrorless Cameras are the best ever Cameras ! If Leica makes a "QM" Camera with a very good EVF and a Leica M mount and remake most of the Leica M Lenses to focus much closer, then I might buy a Leica Camera, if the prices is not astronomic high.
Ha, I knew the ending would not be what the video title leads one to believe. I totally agree with all your points and conclusions. Would have gone for a P or BP. I like my M9-P colour, so the magenta shift is not a bother at all, I quite like the colours coming out of the M11. Half of the time I like the default DNG than my edited results, that goes to say a lot. The metering is so good, which makes the M11 such a pleasure to use. I ended up swapping to a black brass screw dot, looks so much better indeed. My next M will be the M12 Safari (no EVF as well, pleeeeeeease) Really wondering what Leica will do to not make it a Fuji. Cheers, man, for making videos, always a pleasure to watch your content.
I don’t understand this: do you use a fixed white balance on your camera when shooting during the day? Of so always shoot an color pasport with the same scene so you can really adjust the correct WB.
I've heard the magenta shift is really only a big problem when shooting in AUTO WB... We're you set to a specific kelvin while shooting or were you in auto?
I actually went with the M10 around the time when your M11 videos started😊No regrets. Yes, it can blow highlights and having the extra storage built in is awesome BUT you need it for that 60 MP. I print up to a3 from m10’s sensor and don’t look back. I could write more here about so many features that on paper (and to some extent in practice) are valid things but we shoot Leica for the experience. And that can resonate for years to come with the m10 for me.
Despite a kind of clickbaity title, this was good solid info. Well done as always. Have you checked with Leica on the magenta shift? That does not seem like Leica color science at all.
I’ve spoken to many other M11 users who all say the same thing. Looks like their intentional color science with this model. Also, the title is honest and articulated. Clickbait would be if I said I regretted “not getting it sooner” or something haha
so strange. My M10R is always setup at 5400k and in LR i got 5050k and -7 tint which is more or less perfect or on the green side (wich i like). I know every software interpret the data of a raw in a different way but is a lot different.
U got a bum sensor or u shouldn't be using 5200k. No other reviewer, from Matt Day to Ted Forbes, has mentioned the magenta shift and I haven't experienced it either. I use LRC with no issues. I'm more surprised that you didn't mention (or maybe you were lucky enough not to experience) the common freezing/lock up issue that persisted through the first three firmware updates. Also, your ISO knob IS very tight. The 'pop' when u pulled it up is noticeably louder than mine and I adjust on the fly regularly.
I’ve never personally spoken to Matt or Ted, but I am in a community with a lot of other Leica shooters here in the bay and we have all discussed the magenta shift many times.
@@davidherring Have you ever mentioned the shift to the folks at Leica Store SF? If so, what did they say (understanding thery havce a self-interest in saying everything's fine).
It's just part of the color science. It's not a right / wrong issue, it's just how the treated the color for this particular camera line. It will change with the M12 the same way it was different with the M10 lineup.
My iso dial takes a lot of effort, too. I leave it up. I agree it is not elegant. The red dot and internal memory comments are right on target. I would buy the M11-P today, but when I purchased the M11, it was very close to the launch date.
I actually sold my M11P and switched to the Hasselblad X2D almost entirely because the colour from the M11 was so inconsistent. Sometimes I’d get photos that reminded me of good slide film. Usually I’d just get a look that took too much work to put right later. The X2D colours are frankly the best and most appealing ones I’ve ever got from a digital camera. And the 1 TB internal SSD is blazing fast and you can either suck the images from WiFi or USBC. I don’t even own the CF express cards you can use in it yet! Add the superb UI and at least basically functional AF and a great feel in the hand and I prefer it overall. The M is constrained by the fact that it must remain within a certain form and size. Hasselblad were not and it does show. I really felt in the end that I loved the M as an object but not as a tool. YMMV of course and that’s fine.
Great video and I love how specific you get about a bunch of things like colors of the images and controls on the camera. The funny thing is, I’m in the opposite camp from you on all of the design elements. I have the M10 and M10M and whenever I’ve considered an M11, I’ve been stuck because I want the increased buffer of the M11P, but I hate the script on top of the M11P and I really like the red dot design of the original M11. Most of all, I really hate the black paint variant and I’m glad that black chrome is standard these days. But the great thing about Leica is that we can have these debates and that they understand that these minor variations are really important to the fan base and they offer options to help you get the exact camera you want.
I absolutely love my M11-P. I love the feel in my hands. The design decision to put the USB port on the bottom was astonishingly bad. It’s a little thing but it makes me crazy…..
In the same way I used a M4 for 40 years, I’m still using my M10. It is my faithful EDC. I have a SL2 and a SL2S and get the battery thing but I think the M10 line is the last of the classic M cameras. After 50 years of M cameras, I don’t mind holding the base plate while charging cards or batteries. Besides, I rarely shoot more than a single battery’s worth of images in a day. On the SL2s I carry 6 spare batteries and have both loaded with a pair of 256 cards. Different tools.
Love the background story for your project and can't wait to see more.I would argue the words Colonizers and Colonized are more appropriate than settlers and settled as they were actively taking away land from the indigenous population rather than settling on uninhabited land. I appreciate that it may be a matter of semantics, but for the indigenous peoples of the area, I imagine they would feel it a more appropriate term. At least, that how I feel when people talk about "Settling" Arizona and California, as opposed to colonizing the land that my family is from. No disrespect or hate, just offering a thought on the terminology! Keep up the beautiful work, love the channel ✌
M11-P owner here, and yes, there is a magenta hue (or shift) to the DNGs. To me it's completely forgivable because of the M shooting experience, and of course the editing latitude of the raw file output.
The ISO dial is pointless IMO. I would prefer a programmable dial there with a button, like the one on the Q. Personally, on digital, I think only auto iso makes sense, but those that think differently could put ISO there.
Ich glaube, Leica wollte trotz aller Moderne die Bilder im Vintage Style wirken lassen. Denn, bei genauer Betrachtung mit meiner Canon Kamera ist auch das Rot, ein ganz eigener Farbtot.
The preservation and untouched nature of the abandoned buildings there is so surreal. The magenta shift in the M11 to me hasn't been a big deal. I don't shoot jpg, and my raws I always calibrate the WB as part of my post process, so it gets neutralized out in that process. My Nikons shoot a little bit green, opposite of this...They all seem have their quirks. In the coming year (or two), the M12 will be out I suspect, and we'll all be getting GAS, especially if the M12 comes with a "i want to have" feature. Problem with Leica, that upgrade is a hard sell at these premium prices(that keep going up). BTW, my M11 dial and M11M dial both are hard to pop up.
I still can’t believe some ppl, even professionals or reviewers don’t believe the magenta shift exists😂 some even claims our interpretation of blue sky is too cyan or this helps the skin color 😂
C'mon... unless you shoot sports at 120 fps (not happening on the M11!), the M11's 3GB buffer and writing a (max) 120MB file to a relatively fast SD will be EXACTLY the same quality as the internal SSD. Although the SSD is convenient, it's not changing your direct photography much. It's mostly for moving your files AFTER the shoot, to your computer.
It's not that simple. You've prob heard about freezes on the M11. A major culprit for freezing, and I've experienced this and can replicate it, is write and read times on the M11. I use Lexar Gold 2000x cards. If I take a photo (write) and then immediately want to review it (read) and execute this too fast, the camera WILL freeze. Shooting to the internal memory, I haven't been able to recreate this like I can with the SD.
An M is about simplicity for me. The m10 generation is numero uno, in particular the M10r, which I think is the best digital M. It will go down as a classic. It’s only shortfall is battery life. The m11 is a miss by Leica. It’s too hybrid.
Fixed internal storage for any device is a bad design idea. You're stuck, cannot change it and you pay for it, a lot! Just use a card. There is no documentation that states internal and fixed storage is more reliable then SD cards; there is a lot of documentation that states it is more expensive, not expandable and you need a solution to get the images out ... be it an SD (so you need to buy one anyway); or "slow" over USB.
I’m not sure why people complain about the magentas. They are very easy to correct. Yes, not the most pleasing colours SOOC for some of us used to filmic colours. But it’s the colour Leica went for - they are trying to be a bit more modern perhaps. It is a modern M camera. I love how on my M8 I don’t have to adjust the colours and get that Kodak look. But I find most camera manufacturers have similar colour science now. I know Hasselblads are a bit more Kodak but the majority have that magenta shift.
@@davidherringI think I’ll give your presets a go because we use the same cameras. Which one do you recommend starting with that gives you the most natural colours on M11? For some reason I like the look of the SLIDE one the most
Probably the most everyday look at VGP is the free one, Generalities. After that, Portra 400 and Portra 800 are best sellers. I use Portra 800 the most of everyday photos.
@ I actually purchased the Slide one last night because I already have Portra 400/800 profiles, but not presets. Will try the Portra ones in the future but I like the Slide ones for my M11 because they compliment the photos from my CCD shots.
Yup, Magenta tint is horrible and I'd argue a preset isn't a solution because the tint isn't consistent when you go indoors etc. The internal memory shouldn't need copying to SD card because you should just copy off your camera, but no wait, the Mac can't see it. Agree - my Iso dial is hard to lift yet far too easy to pop down. Then you add the stupid location for the charging cable, the basic info through the VF, the poor close focussing, the instability, the terrible aftercare, the lengthy waits for repair, and that all adds up to mine going off for sale in the New Year. I still argue Leica is not a professional camera company it's a luxury brand trading off its past heritage, selling massively overpriced cameras. Glad I tried it, but it's mostly for older men with disposable income or influencers (and no offence meant). They can all talk about it and brag about it. The one thing I didnt mind was the red dot, I mean its their logo so I kind of see why it's there - I think most of the feeling of the dot is knowing people have made an impression of you based on it - in many cases that is true of course! Appreciate the honest feedback, Leica would help themselves by paying some attention....
I think your summary here is warranted from your perspective. As someone who makes a living using this camera, I don't feel the limitations of the things you described. Some of them are just decisions they made, like the USBC location, that are odd, but they're just decisions, not right or wrong.
@@davidherring Yes, it's just my opinion obviously. Respect yours too but in general I'd say if a design 'quirk' makes something better than the 'norm' then it's good. If not, as in this case (in my opinion with the USB port for example), then it's worse. I mean, how can having to balance the camera on the lens or screen or dangle it off the side of the desk just to plug it in a good thing? There's a reason it's not done like that on ANY other camera or device I know of. In my opinion.
Have X2D and M11. Color difference is clear. Still enjoy both. But for realistic color without a lot of post processing, X2D wins every time. Thanks for a very useful video!!
I really want to go X1D or X2D, but they're large and I haven't been reading great things about the AF in either of them. How has your overall experience been with the X2D?
X2D has faster focus than my M11, especially the autofocus!!! Ok, just kidding. I wouldn’t use it for anything fast. Have an Olympus for wildlife. But for landscape, portraits, environmental, etc, it is more than good enough. Really, it depends on the type of subject you are capturing. And size wise, it really is like a DSLR. Maybe a tad bigger, but the body and new lenses are pretty light.
Dave, agree on all your points. Internal memory is the way on the future, not clear why Leica took a step back with the latest M11 body. I’m still on my M10-R and completely satisfied with it, other than I wish it had some internal memory. M12-P well now you’re talking.
Here's your "magenta shift" explanation. This video has helped many: ua-cam.com/video/jvRABil2Hls/v-deo.html Do not lock in color temperature. Let the camera decide. And it's explained why in this video.
Which M is the right one for me? Certainly not any M11 and probably not any M10. Reason? The pervasive "freezing"/"lockup" issue with M11s and less than pervasive but nonetheless too frequent "freezing"/"lockup" issue with M10s. This problem persist right up to the most recent M11s (of any iteration) and Leica has done little to fix it and continues to ignore it or altogether falsely deny it, claiming to have resolved it with firmware updates. Not so. Not good. But for this very real problem I would no doubt now own at least one M10 and/or M11. Shame on Leica.
@@davidherring I just wish Leica and Adobe offered "camera matching" default profiles that more closely match the STD/NAT Jpeg output. Considering they partner up a lot, Leica cameras don't get a lot of Lightroom love sadly.
Yeah the 64gb on the black paint was a bizarre choice. M11's have not been very reliable cameras from Leica... they need to make better decisions for their customers.
M11-P! It's got everything I want but I will say, using a 128GB card, it does feel like I need a 256 or something matching. After that, I just wish someone designed a proper M10-D style advance lever for the M11-P and I'd be set for the rest of the camera's lifecycle!
I don't see anything special in the images created by Leica compared to any $3000 range camera from Canon, Sony or Nikon. I get it for the ergonomics, but at that price?!
Adding that the M11 Magenta shift is happening in Capture One as well. I lock my M11 WB at 5500K and the WB values in CP1 default to 5361K and Tint .5 shift. The numerical values for WB in LR & CP1 are wildly different, but the actual magenta shift is definitely present in CP1. I didn't want to believe it, but comparing the same image in both applications proves the magenta shift is there in both programs. Thankfully this is such an easy adjustment, and while a little disappointing the colors aren't perfect, it's not a hard fix.
Yes, it's the camera and not the software. It was a decision by Leica. To everyone: this is not right or wrong, it's just a thing. You can choose to correct that thing or let it run, your call. But it's just a thing.
@@davidherring It is wrong as nobody wants a magenta shift as default. Something being wrong could also be a thing
tattoos 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
@@adambreuse1875 I'm going to get this tattooed for you.
Leica is a camera for pretentious collectors not true photographers at this point any semi pro camera from the last 12 years is capable of pulitzer winning photographs it's the artistic eye not some brand!
I started with the M11, but mine had freeze-up problems. After trying dozens of home remedies recommended by the Leica dealer and various forums, I returned it and got the M11-P. I am hugging my M11-P as we speak. Not only has it been trouble free, but the script on top brings me great joy. A silly thing to obsess about, perhaps, but I love it.
Yeah, I’d love to have the P, but will have to wait for the M12-P!
Just goes to show, it's definitely not value for money. Even the Leica lenses are no better.
I’ll keep saying this over and over. I’ve had M9, M240, M10, M10P, M10R, M11, M11P and I can confidently say that the M10R is peak performance. Just because it’s newer doesn’t mean it’s better. I still look at my M9 photos and they are amazing, flawless….
I sold the M11s and I’m using the M10R as my go to for everything.
That's awesome.
I love it so much I’m getting another one (different color of course!)
'My M9 photos are amazing, flawless' and 'I use a M10R for everything' makes no sense
@@alhOOO2Owhy not? I no longer have an M9. How am I going to shoot with a camera I don’t have?
I did the same. M-D 262 > M10 > M10-R > M11 > M10-R. M11 way too overcooked and saturated for me. M10-R is perfection.
I gave in finally. Moving up to the M10! Arrives tomorrow!!! As always really enjoy your straightforward videos.
Congrats!
Before you do anything else…Use the profile “PROFILE M11” instead of “Adobe Color” in Lightroom. That’s 80% of the problem. Even shooting at an in-camera 5500K permanently will still be interpreted through Lightroom and Capture One differently. Something doesn’t connect in the EXIF data from the DNG files…apparently Hasselblad isn’t having the same problem: the files always come in at 5500K.
Been wondering about profiles, Is there an alternative for us shooting with the SL2 or any other Leicas that only give you the Adobe option.
(Haven't seen much of the video yet if It is mentioned)
Posted in my IG story in reference to this, @daveherring
There isn't one as far as I know.
I do this and still need to dial back the tint. I don't fully understand why a DNG file comes into LR with a +29 tint.
@@davidherring there is, I used it in my M11 review and found the difference not as noticeable as with the M10, but still the best way to see the M11's colors. The SL2 also had a crazy color shift...anywho I posted a video on how to get the built in profiles on my channel if you need help finding it!
I might be wrong, but I think you can set iso to M and then use the thumb wheel to adjust iso. Either by pushing it to switch between operations or something.
You can, I just would love the design to change a bit.
Hi Dave,
Just curious, what lens did you use for this test? I don’t notice any magenta shift on my friend’s M11 and I’m wondering if it is a lens difference or if there is sample variation in the bodies…
I’m using a 35mm Leica Summilux.
I recommend making a profile for your specific camera with an x-rite colorchecker and included software for a daylight white balance.
Thanks for sharing!
I don't get the issues you are having. When I set my M11 to Auto ISO I get a Tint value of 12-14, and no magenta shift. You never have to transfer the data to the SD card. Just load either the internal or the SD card data straight into LightRoom (or other) with the USB-C connection. Both the internal memory and the SD-Card will show up as drives on your computer. This will also recharge the battery. Never open the battery/SD Card door again. Easy, fast,simple and less wear and tear on parts. I think the ISO dial on the left is really only there for looks, just set it to M. Set your rear control wheel press function to ISO-M. Then you can instantly set the ISO to AUTO or any ISO value the camera is capable of from 64 to 50K in 1/3 stop increments. More powerful, more simple, and faster. All of your issues with the M11 can easily be handled by understanding the elegant design of the M11 range of cameras better.
If you are manually setting your aperture and shutter speed (which you should be doing on an M) and your ISO is set to Auto, then you Exposure compensation dial is actually an ISO Dial because ISO is the only attribute the camera can change for exposure compensation. The exposure meter in the M11 cameras is very accurate because it is now reading off the sensor directly. The Exposure Compensation dial gives you 6 stops of adjustment from the calculated value. ISO almost never needs to be adjusted outside of this range. So even if you just want to set the left ISO dial to Auto and use the wheel click function for something else like White Balance, you have all the control of ISO you will ever likely need.
Thanks for sharing.
I believe some cameras are not affected. I certainly get the magenta shift with AWB. Its not consistent, but as Dave has demonstrated its very strong in blue sky type situations
Hey, Dave! I had the exact same problem with magenta tint on my M11-P and it was driving me nuts. When I ran out of patience, I contacted the Leica customer service center and arranged to send the camera in for service. The service center recalibrated the sensor (or something like this) and the "magenta tint" problem was solved. For myself I can recommend it, it is definitely worth it!
How long was your M11 in service?
@@petereprice I am from the Czech Republic, I sent the camera to Germany (Wetzlar) and it was back in less than two weeks.
Interesting. Need to get together with a buddy and shoot the same thing and see if our files are the same or not. Thanks for the tip!
I had the M11 and had problems. No locking up luckily but the resolution is too high for a camera without Ibis and the sensor always seemed to be covered in dust. Didn't like the lack of bottom plate either. I now have the M10 and love it (even though I can't use my expensive Sony SD cards with it for some random reason)
Thanks for sharing!
I have a friend who owns an M11 Monochrom. It's really funny that he brings a dust blower and a brush with him everytime he brings his beloved camera. 😂
My Q3 has a magenta shift of 23 points of all images that come out of the camera. It's the first post processing I do. I was in Italy and Greece and Turkey this summer and I thought everyone had a bad sunburn, but when I came home and processed, they just had very nice tans. That wheat in your picture looked pink.
Yeah for sure. Easy fix but kind of annoying you have to.
I have an M10 for which I sold my M262 (which I regret), and it's a small thing, but my ISO dial is also hard to maneuver. Now I just set it to M and adjust in the menu. It just seems like waste of space on a camera that is so meticulously designed.
I hear you!
The only way I found to pop up the ISO dial without pulling a fingernail off is to use my pointer finger and thumb (with a pinching gesture) at the same time.
Yeah it's tight for sure!
You don’t have to use the pop up iso dial, set it to M, and program the push wheel to adjust iso. That’s what I do
Yeah, I was speaking more to the design, not the function.
Have the M9, M240, M10 and M11 cameras, and agree about the magenta shift (M240 had it also). I've had luck using a Hoya UV-IR cut filter to reduce the magenta shift when using M11, to give me more natural colors.
The M11 is supposed to be using a new thinner type of IR cover glass on sensor, and similar to M8 (though not nearly as bad): I think the M11 is letting slight IR leakage slant the color spectrum. This would also explain why using a Hoya UV-IR cut filter, the colors begin to improve, become more neutral.
I have a UV-IR cut, I wonder if it would make a difference.
Ok I just snapped two photos with a color checker, one with a UV-IR cut and one without. They look identical. See my stories on IG @daveherring
@@davidherring Which UV-IR cut filter (brand) did you use? Different brands have different IR wavelength cut-off bands, some like the Leica and B+W made ones are aggressive and cut at 640 nanometers. Hoya cut's at 700 nanometer. Other off-brand types can cut as high as 760-780 nanometers. In order to truncate the IR leakage on the M8, M240 and M11, I've found 700nm or stronger works best.
Mine is a B+W
I been using the M11 since the beginning of the year and had no issues with it. The few hiccups it had were fixed with the latest firmware, perhaps I been lucky.
I’ve never had the freeze issues many others have had.
Thank you Dave for this video. I own the M11P and more than satisfied. The magenta shift is present but different from a lens to another. Modified this is simple for me. No pain.
M11-P would be my camera of choice! The magenta shift is definitely easy to fix.
@ The color temperature is different from the M11 and the M11P. I have a chart available if you wish to see it. I just need your e-mail.
Can you just not change the default import magenta value? You can do that in Lightroom. IMO, it's not the camera, it's how software thinks the default RAW values are. The same thing happens to my Nikon and Fujifilm cameras. Even cameras from the same brand will have different WB and Tint values even if you shot them at the same Kelvin value. The software just "interprets" the RAW file to what it thinks the default values should be.
As you have already done, you can create a dedicated preset and use that for RAW defaults. Personally, I make a preset for each camera to match the cameras in terms of WB/Tint as much as possible as I shoot multiple cameras in weddings. I also include in the presets ISO-adaptive Noise Reduction and Sharpening already so those settings are already near optimal for whatever ISO the raw file was shot in. These get applied to each camera as their default RAW values upon import. No need to select the presets before or after importing.
You can def change the value once it’s on your computer, but that doesn’t change the fact that the sensor color science is magenta shifted. It’s in both LR and C1. It’s on JPGs and RAW. It’s at any temp.
Hey Dave, I am wondering if this is rather a problem of Lightroom than the camera itself? Using C1 by myself, I never really encountered such a color shift…
I notice it in C1 as well, especially on mid-day photos.
I use the M11 and C1. I dont see a large tint on my photos. Maybe its a computer issue?
When I had the camera I figured out that just charging the kelvin to 6k would get rid of the magenta shift and have it look very neutral and since the files were pretty amazing dynamic range wise it was fairly easy to get the colors I wanted
Yeah for sure. It's not difficult to deal with.
M11-D not M10-D has the iso dial on the back. The M10-D has +/- ev dial on the back
Thanks for clarifying!
I often don't mind that magenta shift since most of my presets are based on some shade of magenta anyway.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your thoughts on the M11 and the variants.
I either set my M10-R K to 5400 or go with daylight for outdoors and indoors set it to tungsten. This way it’s more like shooting film. Also, color is more consistent from frame to frame, as opposed to AWB. Also, I invested in a color checker passport a time saver as well. Internal storage is a plus for now I am sticking with my M10’s and SD cards.
I have noticed a magenta cast in M files since the M8/M240. As you suggested making a preset in C1/LR is the best work around or use a color checker/grey card.
Thank you again, Dave. Happy snappin’!
Thanks for sharing. I use a color checker passport as well for developing verygoodpresets.com
I have the M11-P silver version. Love the camera, though have had a couple of fail to power up issues since I purchased the camera in September this year. It seems related to the battery. After I insert the battery in the accessory charger for a few minutes, reinsert into the camera, it powers up. The user manual suggests this a remedy. I have noticed the colour science seems slightly different between DNG-L, DNG-M and DNG-S.
Interesting. Haven’t compared the DNG sizes regarding color.
That is def a magenta shift. I could see it before you showed the side by side. But then once you showed the side by side edited unedited pics it was obvious. I guess it’s not a huge deal because it’s pretty easy to correct.
It's an easy fix for sure. It doesn't bother me much because I don't shoot JPG and I edit everything I shoot. But it IS there, unfortunately.
Sticking with the M10, which I bought in 2018. Had the M240, M9P and M8.2 before that.
I was going to move up to M11 in 2022, but instead spent my money on the APO-Summicron 90mm. Since the M10 is still holding up well, I think I'd rather spend any available funds on Leica lenses for now. Maybe will wait for the M12.
Can’t go wrong with Leica lenses. They will stand the test of time and hold their value.
That’s interesting because my M-P 240 has a -17 Tint on its RAWs which I usually drag back to a -7 or -6 (I like a bit of green undertone).
I guess you could always take a minute during lunch to transfer from your internal memory to an SD. Not ideal, but…
240 and M10 were more green, in my experience. I prefer green as it's more film-like to me.
@@davidherring Yep, same here!
Dave, thanks for the video. I'm also sticking with my M11 and not trading it in for one with more internal storage. I'm no longer a working photographer and don't worry so much about storage. As for the magenta shift, yes, it has bothered me at lot at times, but I've made the kinds of adjustments you recommend, i.e,, daylight WB and watching for that tint shift. (I use the M11 camera profile in LR as well.) Also like you I'm looking forward to what Leica has in mind for the M12 and don't want an EVF.
Same page! Thanks for sharing!
My M of choice is the silver M9-P which has also a magenta shift which is very easy to fix. The M8 comes second.
Yep, easy fix!
Meh the storage is a non issue, how many sd cards and spare batteries can you fit in your pocket?
My point was more about the read / write time but thanks for the comment.
Had an M11 but "traded down" to an M10R and think the colors SOOC are more pleasing and filmic to me. I always felt M11 colors seemed too clinical although that could just be me though.
I like the M10R sooc. Miss mine!
Hello David, it's true that this is the first thing I noticed when switching from the Fuji GFX 100 s to the M11, the magenta shift. And I ask myself the same question as you, shouldn't I have taken the M11 monochrom because since I installed the "high contrast" BW, I now very rarely photograph in color (M11 monochrom is in my mind...). Thanks again for your video and have a good weekend.
Thanks for sharing! I had the M11M for a bit, and it was a blast. Ultimately though, I’m a color photographer.
Regarding internal storage: How about shooting until the 64gb are almost full, move it to a 256Gb SD Card, format the internal storage and continue shooting with internal storage? So using the SD card just as an internal backup until next import in to LR.
That works for sure.
I own an M11 since January 2024 and I have never had any issues with a magenta shift. Not with the DNG files, not with the JPG files, leaving the white balance in AWB mode (no filters used) except when using flashes. I even did check some pics on purpose after watching your video, the result: There is no magenta shift, not with my M11, both for the Leica lenses and Voigtländer lenses. "Only" 64GB internal memory: I am always using 256 GB UHS II cards. The internal memory for me is only my backup scenario if I would forget to put in an SD card once in an while . . . File Size: I shoot at 36 MP in most of the cases, as this is optimizing file size, dynamic range and noise.
Oh, by the way: I had another M11 for testing before buying mine and I did also check theses pictures and there is also no magenta shift and the tint is 19 when importing the DNG files, same as with my M11.
Thanks for sharing.
I have seen this also on my SL3 the magenta shift. always shoot daylight but the shift was still there on the M11 & SL3. Have done exactly like you suggested made a preset. Funny I haven't ever checked the Colorchecker profiles I have done for these cameras to see it is still exists. A greater look required
I think the preset for correct the white balance is the easiest thing to do, and it's a quick fix.
M11 in silver. My M9, M240 and M10 Mono were all black. I needed a change and the silver + red logo gave me the retro look I now hugely prefer. Many of my M lenses are also silver. Also, I have seen the best RF coupling in the M11, compared to my other M cameras, going back to the M9 in 2009. Even Voigtlander and Zeiss lenses couple with the RF more accurately. Lastly, the sensor cover glass plate is much thinner in the M11 (0.85mm), which improves acute ray angles and gets M lenses performing better on the M11 compared to M10 or earlier generations. As for the magenta shift, the Fuji GFX 100 II also has this. It takes a downshift of the magenta + a little reduction in the overall color temperature to very nearly match the Hasselblad X2D 100C, and conversely, the X2D 100C needs a little boost of magenta to get the blue tones right. Where the two adjustments meet, you get very nearly identical tonality.
I built a profile for the M11 that mimicked the colors of the X2D. In the end though, it’s minimal.
Leica SL2-S also has magenta shift. So I always use auto wb or the one you can pick a neutral spot.
I didn’t notice when I had the SL2-S, but you’re probably correct.
@ Ive compared with my sl2, sl3 and even an sl2-s from a leica employee. The first two look the same and my S and the leica rep’s S looks the same (more magenta)
Per a comment earlier I was surprised to see the dramatic magenta shift and looked at my images in LRC and didn't see anything near as pronounced. I use Auto WB and the M11 profile in LRC. Most were within +/- 10 and only a couple with harsh indoor halogen that got up to 20. I'll try the full time 5500 and see what the raw files show but it's not been an issue for me. Fully agree that the 256GB in the M11-P is far less stressful and the all black with script on top is very nice. I love the red dot but this camera is just beautiful as is. Thanks for the video.
Thank you!
Auto white balance, like are you serious.
UA-cam is international. For non Americans, where are the ‘Northern Plains’? Idaho, Montana, Nebraska?
I had an M240 and found the DNG overly warm, almost orange. It was a devil to correct, so I sold it. I now have a Hasselblad X1D2. The colours are sensational, but you can’t use Capture One, which pains me.
I’ll probably buy a used M10 next. I’d obviously get the M10R if that was in my budget.
Northern plains are eastern Montana and Wyoming, western Nebraska, South & North Dakota.
@ Thanks
Get this man to 100k subs!
Maybe by 2030
Sorry to hear that. I hope it can be fixed. I am still faithfully sticking to my M10s. Take care
Nothing is broken, just some small things that need to be worked through!
I own the M10R BP and I am super happy with it. Nothing which is available right now or on the horizon would make me sell it and by a newer M. That is only because I am so happy with mine and not because the M11 Series is not great. Happy Holidays !
M10R BP is prob the most beautiful digital Leica ever made.
As it happens, my M10-R is broken and I'm trying to decide whether to replace it with an M11-P. Having used both M10-R and M11, do you think the image quality is meaningfully better?
Don't get me wrong, I loved the images from the M10R. That said, everything about the M11 is superior, with the best being the battery life and USB-C charging. M11-P is what I'd recommend.
What’s the IBIS like !
I have never had a situation where I thought “man I wish this had IBIS.”
Have you tried Capture One? I find that the colours in raw photos are way better when imported to Capture One than with Lightroom.
Posted on my IG story to answer this, @daveherring
What a great subject for a photo series. Working as a gaffer for many years I learnt that "daylight" colour temperature varies wildly depending on time of day and weather. I'm too lazy to use custom white balance so I end up using auto unless something looks weird in the viewfinder. 😅
Thanks! Yeah, I use custom 5200K for nearly all my outdoor work, but Daylight in LR at 5500K & +10 tint does well on the M11 to reduce the magenta shift.
Why did you not have the M10 repaired?I want to trade my Q2Reporter for an M10P to match my M10M.I need color on occassion but can’t get the feel of the Q in comparison.Maybe an 11 sometime.
My M10R had a dead communication chip on the circuit board. Needed to replace the entire board with several months downtime. I am a working photographer so I bought an M11 and had it sent out, and then decided to keep the M11 months later and sold the M10R.
Leica break ! Probably cheap parts.
I once tried a Leica rangefinder camera for some time, I never liked to use it ! I like WYSIWYG, so I stayed with SLR Cameras, later DSLR Cameras and now mirrorless Cameras, for morrorless Cameras are the best ever Cameras ! If Leica makes a "QM" Camera with a very good EVF and a Leica M mount and remake most of the Leica M Lenses to focus much closer, then I might buy a Leica Camera, if the prices is not astronomic high.
Thanks for the comment.
Ha, I knew the ending would not be what the video title leads one to believe. I totally agree with all your points and conclusions. Would have gone for a P or BP. I like my M9-P colour, so the magenta shift is not a bother at all, I quite like the colours coming out of the M11. Half of the time I like the default DNG than my edited results, that goes to say a lot. The metering is so good, which makes the M11 such a pleasure to use. I ended up swapping to a black brass screw dot, looks so much better indeed. My next M will be the M12 Safari (no EVF as well, pleeeeeeease) Really wondering what Leica will do to not make it a Fuji. Cheers, man, for making videos, always a pleasure to watch your content.
Thanks! Yeah, the M11P would be the one if I was doing it over.
What's the brand of the shirt your wearing? Great design!
Roark! 💪🏼
Not sure it's a magenta "shift" so much as a baked in magenta bias.
Yeah, bias is probably a better word.
I don’t understand this: do you use a fixed white balance on your camera when shooting during the day? Of so always shoot an color pasport with the same scene so you can really adjust the correct WB.
No if I'm in sunlight, I'm at 5200K. If I'm indoors, 3600K.
@ try to set it to auto.
BTW, those Northern Plains shots are fire. Can't wait to see the book.
Thank you! Later in 2025!
I've heard the magenta shift is really only a big problem when shooting in AUTO WB... We're you set to a specific kelvin while shooting or were you in auto?
I haven’t used auto WB in years on any camera. 5200K
I actually went with the M10 around the time when your M11 videos started😊No regrets. Yes, it can blow highlights and having the extra storage built in is awesome BUT you need it for that 60 MP. I print up to a3 from m10’s sensor and don’t look back. I could write more here about so many features that on paper (and to some extent in practice) are valid things but we shoot Leica for the experience. And that can resonate for years to come with the m10 for me.
That’s great, thanks for sharing!
Despite a kind of clickbaity title, this was good solid info. Well done as always. Have you checked with Leica on the magenta shift? That does not seem like Leica color science at all.
I’ve spoken to many other M11 users who all say the same thing. Looks like their intentional color science with this model.
Also, the title is honest and articulated. Clickbait would be if I said I regretted “not getting it sooner” or something haha
so strange.
My M10R is always setup at 5400k and in LR i got 5050k and -7 tint which is more or less perfect or on the green side (wich i like).
I know every software interpret the data of a raw in a different way but is a lot different.
The M10R has a different sensor and different color science. I miss mine.
U got a bum sensor or u shouldn't be using 5200k. No other reviewer, from Matt Day to Ted Forbes, has mentioned the magenta shift and I haven't experienced it either. I use LRC with no issues. I'm more surprised that you didn't mention (or maybe you were lucky enough not to experience) the common freezing/lock up issue that persisted through the first three firmware updates. Also, your ISO knob IS very tight. The 'pop' when u pulled it up is noticeably louder than mine and I adjust on the fly regularly.
I’ve never personally spoken to Matt or Ted, but I am in a community with a lot of other Leica shooters here in the bay and we have all discussed the magenta shift many times.
@@davidherring Have you ever mentioned the shift to the folks at Leica Store SF? If so, what did they say (understanding thery havce a self-interest in saying everything's fine).
It's just part of the color science. It's not a right / wrong issue, it's just how the treated the color for this particular camera line. It will change with the M12 the same way it was different with the M10 lineup.
What if it was a hybrid EVF/OVF, though, like in the popular Fujifilm cameras?
Still a no from me.
My iso dial takes a lot of effort, too. I leave it up. I agree it is not elegant. The red dot and internal memory comments are right on target. I would buy the M11-P today, but when I purchased the M11, it was very close to the launch date.
You get me.
I totally agree with you about choosing the M11P; I made that choice and I don't regret it.
M12-P in 2029 for me haha
That means you regret it.
I actually sold my M11P and switched to the Hasselblad X2D almost entirely because the colour from the M11 was so inconsistent. Sometimes I’d get photos that reminded me of good slide film. Usually I’d just get a look that took too much work to put right later.
The X2D colours are frankly the best and most appealing ones I’ve ever got from a digital camera.
And the 1 TB internal SSD is blazing fast and you can either suck the images from WiFi or USBC. I don’t even own the CF express cards you can use in it yet!
Add the superb UI and at least basically functional AF and a great feel in the hand and I prefer it overall.
The M is constrained by the fact that it must remain within a certain form and size. Hasselblad were not and it does show.
I really felt in the end that I loved the M as an object but not as a tool. YMMV of course and that’s fine.
Hard to beat Hasselblad for colors for sure!
Great video and I love how specific you get about a bunch of things like colors of the images and controls on the camera. The funny thing is, I’m in the opposite camp from you on all of the design elements. I have the M10 and M10M and whenever I’ve considered an M11, I’ve been stuck because I want the increased buffer of the M11P, but I hate the script on top of the M11P and I really like the red dot design of the original M11. Most of all, I really hate the black paint variant and I’m glad that black chrome is standard these days. But the great thing about Leica is that we can have these debates and that they understand that these minor variations are really important to the fan base and they offer options to help you get the exact camera you want.
Yeah other than skin decals on a Sony, I can’t think of any other brand that has this much customization and options!
I absolutely love my M11-P. I love the feel in my hands. The design decision to put the USB port on the bottom was astonishingly bad. It’s a little thing but it
makes me crazy…..
Gotta charge it upside down!
Dude the photos in the intro of the video looked so good! I will check your ig
Thanks!
I must admit I never fancied the M11 line .I have an M-P240 which I use now and then , but my main camera is the M10-D
Nice!
In the same way I used a M4 for 40 years, I’m still using my M10. It is my faithful EDC. I have a SL2 and a SL2S and get the battery thing but I think the M10 line is the last of the classic M cameras. After 50 years of M cameras, I don’t mind holding the base plate while charging cards or batteries. Besides, I rarely shoot more than a single battery’s worth of images in a day. On the SL2s I carry 6 spare batteries and have both loaded with a pair of 256 cards. Different tools.
Thanks for sharing!
Great video, with honest opinion Dave. The (original) M Monochrome and M10-R doe it for me.
Thank you!
Your colour grading is so nice hoooooow
verygoodpresets.com my friend
@@davidherring you grade your videos in LR? interesting!
Oh haha I thought you meant on my photos. My video is Phantom LUTS.
Sticking with my 10R for now Dave
I miss mine.
Thank you for this. I wonder if the magenta shift is as pronounced, or exists at all, if you use another programme such as Capture One?
It does. I use C1 as well and it’s magenta in there, too.
Love the background story for your project and can't wait to see more.I would argue the words Colonizers and Colonized are more appropriate than settlers and settled as they were actively taking away land from the indigenous population rather than settling on uninhabited land. I appreciate that it may be a matter of semantics, but for the indigenous peoples of the area, I imagine they would feel it a more appropriate term. At least, that how I feel when people talk about "Settling" Arizona and California, as opposed to colonizing the land that my family is from.
No disrespect or hate, just offering a thought on the terminology! Keep up the beautiful work, love the channel ✌
You're not wrong.
M11-P owner here, and yes, there is a magenta hue (or shift) to the DNGs. To me it's completely forgivable because of the M shooting experience, and of course the editing latitude of the raw file output.
Agreed, forgivable!
The ISO dial is pointless IMO. I would prefer a programmable dial there with a button, like the one on the Q. Personally, on digital, I think only auto iso makes sense, but those that think differently could put ISO there.
Thanks for sharing.
sony a7r II is wonderful + voigtlander apo and you are very happy and spent the resto of money on travelling :)
Thanks for sharing.
Ich glaube, Leica wollte trotz aller Moderne die Bilder im Vintage Style wirken lassen. Denn, bei genauer Betrachtung mit meiner Canon Kamera ist auch das Rot, ein ganz eigener Farbtot.
Thanks for sharing.
The preservation and untouched nature of the abandoned buildings there is so surreal. The magenta shift in the M11 to me hasn't been a big deal. I don't shoot jpg, and my raws I always calibrate the WB as part of my post process, so it gets neutralized out in that process. My Nikons shoot a little bit green, opposite of this...They all seem have their quirks. In the coming year (or two), the M12 will be out I suspect, and we'll all be getting GAS, especially if the M12 comes with a "i want to have" feature. Problem with Leica, that upgrade is a hard sell at these premium prices(that keep going up). BTW, my M11 dial and M11M dial both are hard to pop up.
They do, and it's not a huge deal for me either. Easy fix to a RAW.
I still can’t believe some ppl, even professionals or reviewers don’t believe the magenta shift exists😂 some even claims our interpretation of blue sky is too cyan or this helps the skin color 😂
100%. It IS there, whether someone wants to believe it or not.
C'mon... unless you shoot sports at 120 fps (not happening on the M11!), the M11's 3GB buffer and writing a (max) 120MB file to a relatively fast SD will be EXACTLY the same quality as the internal SSD. Although the SSD is convenient, it's not changing your direct photography much. It's mostly for moving your files AFTER the shoot, to your computer.
It's not that simple. You've prob heard about freezes on the M11. A major culprit for freezing, and I've experienced this and can replicate it, is write and read times on the M11. I use Lexar Gold 2000x cards. If I take a photo (write) and then immediately want to review it (read) and execute this too fast, the camera WILL freeze. Shooting to the internal memory, I haven't been able to recreate this like I can with the SD.
that ISO dial, dang what a deal breaker. Glad I went with a different camera...
Whatever works for you!
@@davidherring Honestly, that was meant as a joke. But didn't come off right. I enjoyed the video!
Same choice I would make, if I had the $. Happy with my m-10r
M10R was fantastic. Miss it.
An M is about simplicity for me. The m10 generation is numero uno, in particular the M10r, which I think is the best digital M. It will go down as a classic. It’s only shortfall is battery life. The m11 is a miss by Leica. It’s too hybrid.
Definitely more hybrid but I think it’s all about your goals and process.
Fixed internal storage for any device is a bad design idea. You're stuck, cannot change it and you pay for it, a lot!
Just use a card. There is no documentation that states internal and fixed storage is more reliable then SD cards; there is a lot of documentation that states it is more expensive, not expandable and you need a solution to get the images out ... be it an SD (so you need to buy one anyway); or "slow" over USB.
The needs don’t expand so why would you need storage to expand? It’s always going to be 61mp. Expanding storage would be for expanding needs.
@@davidherring Fair enough. Must be that it fills your needs. For me that would not be a selection criteria. Each to their own i suppose! ;-)
I’m not sure why people complain about the magentas. They are very easy to correct. Yes, not the most pleasing colours SOOC for some of us used to filmic colours. But it’s the colour Leica went for - they are trying to be a bit more modern perhaps. It is a modern M camera. I love how on my M8 I don’t have to adjust the colours and get that Kodak look. But I find most camera manufacturers have similar colour science now. I know Hasselblads are a bit more Kodak but the majority have that magenta shift.
Yeah it's an easy fix.
@@davidherringI think I’ll give your presets a go because we use the same cameras. Which one do you recommend starting with that gives you the most natural colours on M11?
For some reason I like the look of the SLIDE one the most
Probably the most everyday look at VGP is the free one, Generalities. After that, Portra 400 and Portra 800 are best sellers. I use Portra 800 the most of everyday photos.
@ I actually purchased the Slide one last night because I already have Portra 400/800 profiles, but not presets. Will try the Portra ones in the future but I like the Slide ones for my M11 because they compliment the photos from my CCD shots.
Yup, Magenta tint is horrible and I'd argue a preset isn't a solution because the tint isn't consistent when you go indoors etc. The internal memory shouldn't need copying to SD card because you should just copy off your camera, but no wait, the Mac can't see it. Agree - my Iso dial is hard to lift yet far too easy to pop down. Then you add the stupid location for the charging cable, the basic info through the VF, the poor close focussing, the instability, the terrible aftercare, the lengthy waits for repair, and that all adds up to mine going off for sale in the New Year. I still argue Leica is not a professional camera company it's a luxury brand trading off its past heritage, selling massively overpriced cameras. Glad I tried it, but it's mostly for older men with disposable income or influencers (and no offence meant). They can all talk about it and brag about it. The one thing I didnt mind was the red dot, I mean its their logo so I kind of see why it's there - I think most of the feeling of the dot is knowing people have made an impression of you based on it - in many cases that is true of course! Appreciate the honest feedback, Leica would help themselves by paying some attention....
I think your summary here is warranted from your perspective. As someone who makes a living using this camera, I don't feel the limitations of the things you described. Some of them are just decisions they made, like the USBC location, that are odd, but they're just decisions, not right or wrong.
@@davidherring Yes, it's just my opinion obviously. Respect yours too but in general I'd say if a design 'quirk' makes something better than the 'norm' then it's good. If not, as in this case (in my opinion with the USB port for example), then it's worse. I mean, how can having to balance the camera on the lens or screen or dangle it off the side of the desk just to plug it in a good thing? There's a reason it's not done like that on ANY other camera or device I know of. In my opinion.
Have X2D and M11. Color difference is clear. Still enjoy both. But for realistic color without a lot of post processing, X2D wins every time. Thanks for a very useful video!!
Hasselblad has become the gold standard for color accuracy 💛
Hard to beat those Hasselblad colors!
I really want to go X1D or X2D, but they're large and I haven't been reading great things about the AF in either of them. How has your overall experience been with the X2D?
X2D has faster focus than my M11, especially the autofocus!!! Ok, just kidding. I wouldn’t use it for anything fast. Have an Olympus for wildlife. But for landscape, portraits, environmental, etc, it is more than good enough. Really, it depends on the type of subject you are capturing. And size wise, it really is like a DSLR. Maybe a tad bigger, but the body and new lenses are pretty light.
@@rudigerwolf9626 I mainly shoot landscapes and pictures of family. How much would it suck to try to photograph a toddler with the X2D?
Dave, agree on all your points. Internal memory is the way on the future, not clear why Leica took a step back with the latest M11 body. I’m still on my M10-R and completely satisfied with it, other than I wish it had some internal memory. M12-P well now you’re talking.
M12-P, 2029.
Why, just stick a card in.
Here's your "magenta shift" explanation. This video has helped many: ua-cam.com/video/jvRABil2Hls/v-deo.html
Do not lock in color temperature. Let the camera decide. And it's explained why in this video.
Thanks for sharing
@@davidherring Let me know if that fixes it (Auto WB). All digital cameras are capricious. And Merry Christmas!
so you're basically telling me that the m11 shoots just like ektachrome out of the box.
done. sold.
I shoot Ektachrome all the time and my raw files look nothing like Ektachrome.
very interesting project, even without praising Zerman Technology
Thanks!
Which M is the right one for me? Certainly not any M11 and probably not any M10. Reason? The pervasive "freezing"/"lockup" issue with M11s and less than pervasive but nonetheless too frequent "freezing"/"lockup" issue with M10s. This problem persist right up to the most recent M11s (of any iteration) and Leica has done little to fix it and continues to ignore it or altogether falsely deny it, claiming to have resolved it with firmware updates. Not so. Not good. But for this very real problem I would no doubt now own at least one M10 and/or M11. Shame on Leica.
Thanks for sharing.
magenta shift is driving me insane
It’s an easy fix but it’s certainly there.
Personally I much prefer the Q3 ooc color rendering over the M11. It’s closer to the M10z
I like the Q colors. Miss my Q2!
@@davidherring I just wish Leica and Adobe offered "camera matching" default profiles that more closely match the STD/NAT Jpeg output. Considering they partner up a lot, Leica cameras don't get a lot of Lightroom love sadly.
Yeah the 64gb on the black paint was a bizarre choice. M11's have not been very reliable cameras from Leica... they need to make better decisions for their customers.
Right? If they had done 256GB, I'd consider jumping to it haha
why all photography youtubers wears beanies? 🤔
Religious and spiritual reasons. My faith requires it.
M11-P! It's got everything I want but I will say, using a 128GB card, it does feel like I need a 256 or something matching.
After that, I just wish someone designed a proper M10-D style advance lever for the M11-P and I'd be set for the rest of the camera's lifecycle!
M12-P for me someday!
Not mention anything else, just the camera body itself isn't cheap.😂
Yeah, this is a class of its own!
Vidéo en français ! Merci !
Il y a très peu de vidéos Leica en français.
Now you’ll have it!
I don't see anything special in the images created by Leica compared to any $3000 range camera from Canon, Sony or Nikon. I get it for the ergonomics, but at that price?!
To each their own.
Interesting…. Could it be the lens you used? #magentaoverkill
No, it’s on anything I use with the M11.
@ 😱 not nice. To much candy like😱